Future LE survey from FS

Arrived today in an email...is there a thread already going on this. Would be interested in people's views

I'd definitely buy The Golden Bough. The others are unlikely, even the Morris.

How are recipients for this survey email chosen?

>3 wongie:

They are targeting customers who have previously bought an LE from them. Other than that I would not know.

Strange, having purchased 13 LEs directly from them over the last 3 years I've never received a single email from them. Guess I must have ticked a "do not contact me" button somewhere. Oh well.

>5 wongie: Guess I must have ticked a "do not contact me" button somewhere. Oh well.

Mr Joe does say in the covering email you can opt out if you don't want to receive further surveys. Perhaps you already did? I would imagine contacting Customer Services, or leresearch@foliosociety.com would fix it.

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/fs17_leresearch_4

Thus is link to it

No email for me yet, though I'm a steady two-LE-a-year man for some time now. I've looked at but not completed the survey: thanks for the link. With the thirteen volume Golden Bough on my shelves I'd not go for the abridgment. The Browne and I think the Morris volume would be probable buys, with the Lear folio a little way behind them. My main reservation with the Morris would be just how satisfyingly that binding would be reproduced by modern methods. The Horace LE is among my very favourites, but my only quibble with it, which I'm almost ashamed to voice, is that the lettering on its spine is completely superficial, as though sprayed on, rather than at all emulating the depth effect produced by hand tooling.

Urne-burial for me also.

I have only bought two LE's from them, but I received the survey in my email last night. I had to say no to all of them. I just didn't love any title enough to spend that kind of money on a book, and really not interested in those prices for any book. I buy to read, not to own something fancy. FS drew me in decades ago with nice hardcover bindings, paper and good print. For me, that is all I need or desire.

>5 wongie:
They probably figured that with your track record, no need to waste time on a survey - you'll buy whatever they publish anyway )

I answered with definite nos to all of them except London, which was "a probably not". Coburn photogravures are beautiful, but it seems like the potential book is little more than a portfolio of prints, in which case I'm not interested.

For me, 'Les Fleur du Mal' and 'Urne-Buriall' are the high points of that list. At some point I would probably acquire Wm. Morris' 'Pharamond" as well.

For me, Urne-Buriall and Pharamond are likely buys. I'm on the fence about London - if it's just an image portfolio, no thank you.

>4 folio_books:

I am afraid that can not be correct as I got the email with the survey yesterday and I have never purchased an LE from Folio.

I have thought about it many times though so who knows, maybe the mole have powers to be envied by many a man :-)

Perhaps the machine that sends out surveys is handcranked like the Bayeux box, and we just have to wait our turn.

An interesting variant from the link at >7 frostymaxim:: So far as memory recalls, the US version of the questionnaire had the limitation for Les Fleurs du Mal as 200 copies, and the target price $1990.

>17 davidjbrown10:
It showed up as 500 to me, and I think the target price was $990, not $1990. Although it still means that FS are being a bit naughty with regards to the exchange rate. Hopefully just doing themselves a disservice by using unrealistically high prices in this survey, as their last offerings were priced close to the current exchange rate, something I hope they will continue doing. Speaking of which, I think they should revise pricing for older offerings and bring them closer to brexit realities. It's quite ridiculous that, say, The Last White Rose is priced at $57.95 while the companion older The Wars of the Roses is $85.95.

Edited for typos.

>18 elladan0891: "Speaking of which, I think they should revision pricing for older offerings and bring them closer to brexit realities. It's quite ridiculous when, say, The Last White Rose is priced at $57.95 while the companion older The Wars of the Roses is $85.95."

Particularly when one can pick up a used copy in fine condition for $24 (including shipping) as I just did.

>19 kdweber:
I got mine on abe for $20 + $3.50 shipping; a new, still shrink-wrapped copy )

>18 elladan0891: Hmmm... I know I wasn't mistaken about the 200 limitation/$1990; I was surprised at both. I got the email Monday, and being on the West Coast expected to find a thread about the survey already begun here. I wonder if I was sent a wrong draft prematurely, for some reason.

>21 davidjbrown10: I saw the 200 limitation / $1990 as well

>21 davidjbrown10:
>22 ultrarightist:

At nearly $2,000, this competes against a wide range of superb private press books published over the past one-hundred years and it becomes a very tough sell.

Good luck with that.

I thought it might be useful to those who cannot access the survey (and for future reference when it disappears) to list here the titles, prices and limitations (as I see them, as a ROW customer):

Charles Baudelaire, Les Fleurs de Mal, £495 (500)

James George Frazer, The Golden Bough (in 2 vols.), £495 (780)

Thomas Browne, Urne Buriall and The Garden of Cyrus, £250 (750)

William Morris, Love is Enough or the Freeing of Pharamond: A Morality, £295 (980)

Alvin Langdon Coburn, London (20 photogravures & intro by Hilaire Belloc), £295 (750)

John Edward Gray & Edward Lear, Gleanings from the Menagerie and Aviary at Knowsley Hall, £395 (780)

I am definitely interested in the Browne, and perhaps the Morris (depending on details and final price). Would like a nice edition of Baudelaire, but not at this price point!

I'd love to see more of Alvin Langdon Coburn's work. His photogravures as reproduced in The Door in the Wall are superb. £295 for a limitation of 750 doesn't sound excessively expensive.

>24 groeng:

Thank you for posting this. Very helpful. I am pleased to see that the Folio Society is greatly reducing the number of issues in these limitations rather than publishing them in George Macy LEC-like runs of 1,000 to 1,500 copies.

The 'Les Fleur du Mal' LE at 495 GBP for a limitation of 500 copies sounds compelling (to me, anyway). This is a seminal collection of poetry.

>22 ultrarightist: Glad I wasn't dreaming it!
>23 dlphcoracl: Yes, when I saw it I thought they had to be trying to up their game into that really high-level niche market. As you say, good luck with that.
Out of all the others I can't say any particularly pressed my buttons, except maybe the Morris.
I wonder if anyone added suggestions for future LEs, as invited? I popped in a couple. I found out not too long ago that the first US edition of The Time Machine differs considerably from the familiar UK text, so I suggested a facsimile of it with the usual complete text (as it's so short) in a separate volume, with commentary.
The other one might be a daft idea, but owning the FS 2009 version of the 1st ed of Leaves of Grass, and knowing that it went through numerous subsequent editions, with additions each time, I wondered about an LE of Whitman's final version, with the original poems in black and the later additions printed in various colours à la The Sound and the Fury with a similar annotated bookmark, showing what went in and when. That doesn't, of course, take account of any changes in the texts of individual poems, so it may be a non-starter. Anyone familiar with the various editions (the Wikipedia entry says 1855 (original), 1856, 1860, 1867, 1871–72, 1876, 1888–89, and 1891–92 (final)) might care to comment.

>28 EclecticIndulgence: That sounds good at face value, and I'd certainly agree with you about the principle of making a quality volume more widely available and more affordably. However, a larger print run can mean greater losses too, if the larger limitation fails to sell within a reasonable time, and there are many who are less tempted to buy limited editions with a high limitation. I don't think this is necessarily because such potential purchasers intend to re-sell the LE at a large mark-up, rather that many understandably baulk at the thought of buying an expensive edition with a notably high limitation, knowing that the value on the secondary market would be likely to plummet: never a happy discovery when you've spent several hundreds pounds on a volume. Folio needs customers to feel that they're not losing out by buying direct from them rather than waiting to pick up bargains later on the secondary market, and restricting limitations seems to me a reasonable way of achieving this. The more restricted print runs that we've seen since around 2012 for standard volumes would appear to support this, from what I've noticed on the secondary market over the past couple of years.

>28 EclecticIndulgence:

If you look at what the vast majority of George Macy Limited Editions Club books sold for 10 to 15 years ago and what they routinely sell for today on abebooks.com, you will quickly understand why I believe that publishing books that are intended as "Limited Editions" in limitations of over 500 copies is detrimental and defeats the purpose of publishing a Limited Edition. I have a brochure with a complete price list of Macy LEC books circa 1975 from Ralph Geoffrey Newman (deceased), a famous Chicago bookseller and specialist in LEC books and Abraham Lincoln related literature, and the prices of the vast majority of LEC books have plummeted 50% to 80% from his listed prices. Although this is undoubtedly due to the competitive pricing engendered by the advent of the internet, other private press books with much smaller limitations have maintained or considerably increased their value since then. As cronshaw correctly noted, no one wins if the book is purchased directly from the FS at time of publication and appears for resale 2-3 years later at a considerable discount.

Seems to me that the only general conclusion to be drawn is that for a particular publication a larger limitation will facilitate a lower selling price - harmlessly to the publisher so long as copies are sold within a reasonable time - but will limit resale value, depending on what the initial and subsequent levels of demand for the book turn out to be. Take the 2007 Four Gospels and 2008 Temple of Flora: the former with a limitation of 2750 copies, and not to be found on Abe except at a modest or larger premium on its original price of £295, while the latter, limited eventually to 600 copies, can be had from Ardis for half its published price.

I don't think the size of a limitation would be likely ever by itself to persuade me into or out of buying a book. I just hope for a more modest price in the case of a very large limitation, and may be ready to pay more if the limitation is small, in view both of the publisher's costs and of the improved prospects for eventual resale, even if not by me: also of the likely monetary penalty were I to decide I really wanted the book some time after stocks became exhausted.

>30 dlphcoracl: I don't disagree that smaller limitations increase resale value but I would rather pay less for the same quality publication due to a larger limitation. I probably feel this way because I buy books and don't sell them. Like fine wine, I buy fine books to enjoy and don't really care about their resale value or how much more money my heirs would have had if I had bought more "collectible" editions. When I buy investments I look for increased future value or at least maintenance with regards to inflation.

It is an interesting argument to posit that publishers will only publish at higher quality levels with low limitations. Clearly the FS poorly predicted the success of selling the letterpress Shakespeare at its original price point with such a high limitation but their subsequent decrease in limitation with a concomitant price increase was equally unsuccessful. Taschen somehow manages to sell out enormous limitations of its SUMO editions at quite high prices and these works appear to maintain their value relatively well. Better marketing, feel for the market, value proposition, who knows? Taschen has also just announced a letterpress edition of The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test for $350 with a limitation on the larger size. I bet this volume sells out a lot quicker than almost any Arion Press edition with a much lower limitation.

In short, it's not obvious to me that small limitations are necessary for a publisher to make money with a quality edition. Again, personally, I value quality at a lower price point over the same quality at a higher cost that may better maintain its price. Probably a reason I buy so many LECs, high quality at very affordable prices.

Simply stated, I don't want to buy an FS Limited Edition for $1,000. and then find it available for $600. one year later. It has nothing to do with buying the book as an "investment"

>34 dlphcoracl: Isn't the world a wonderfully diverse place. For me it's a value proposition, is the FS LE worth $1000 to me today. I recognize that most books I purchase will decline in value, it doesn't bother me. Publishers sell to you and to me as well as others with different values. Sometimes they'll guess right and make a fortune, other times guess wrong and possibly go out of business or most likely somewhere in between.

>35 EclecticIndulgence:

I am not worried with regard to whether the book appreciates or depreciates, per se. However, if I know that FS Limited Editions books will consistently sell for substantially less in 1-2 years I will then use the money for a different private press book purchase. As with nearly everyone on this thread, I have a budget and a limited amount of money I can spend in any given year. Delaying an FS LE purchase under these circumstances will enable me to make better use of the money set aside for books.

I wonder if a limited edition within a limited edition would be beneficial. You see this with some private presses. Example: total limitation of 1000. All printed letterpress with illustrations printed from the block. 900 copies quarter bound in cowhide with cloth sides, printed on mould made paper. 100 copies bound in full goatskin, printed on handmade paper.

>30 dlphcoracl: and those are nominal prices without factoring inflation, which is cumulatively quite substantial since 1975.

>38 ultrarightist: Certainly a number of fine presses have used this model. Also used for pricing many other items such as vehicles and airfare.

>38 ultrarightist:

This is precisely what John Randle at the Whittington Press does. Nearly all of his books are issued in 2 or 3 editions, as follows:

Standard "C" edition: least expensive binding, typically cloth spine with paper over boards. No extras.

"B" edition: 1/4 or 1/2 goatskin leather spine with partial portfolio of illustrations (usually wood engravings) issued separately, all housed in a slipcase.

"A" deluxe edition: full goatskin leather binding, complete portfolio of separate illustrations (often signed by the illustrator) and housed in a chemise portfolio, then enclosed in a clamshell cloth-covered box.

>38 ultrarightist: >41 dlphcoracl:
And this is what the FS is doing with the Duke's Children. Seems to be working too, but you don't know how many are in each category of binding, which is a bit annoying. It may be an experiment that they will repeat in the future.

They also did this with Perfect and Imperfect Enjoyments.