Joe's Book Cafe 2016 Door 23

Art by Esau Andrade Valencia (should be a touchstone, but there isn't - take a look here: https://smile.amazon.com/Perfect-Dreaming-perfecto-English-Spanish/dp/1933693010...

2016 Books

January

1. Hattie Ever After by Kirby Larson
2. Saint Odd by Dean Koontz
3. Tricky Twenty-Two by Janet Evanovich
4. War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy
5. Cold Mountain by Han Shan (re-read)
6. Bryant & May and the Burning Man by Christopher Fowler
7. Dinner at the Homesick Restaurant by Anne Tyler
8. Valis by Philip K. Dick
9. Neon Vernacular by Yusef Komunyaka

February

10. Tokyo Decadence by Ryu Murakami
11. The Aeronaut's Windlass by Jim Butcher
12. Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen by Lois McMaster Bujold
13. Maniac Magee by Jerry Spinelli
14. Martian Time-Slip by Philip K. Dick
15. The Moving Finger by Agatha Christie
16. Natural Birth by Toi Derricotte
17. A Thousand Mornings by Mary Oliver
18. Winterdance by Gary Paulsen
19. Heap House by Edward Carey

March

20. Evicted by Matthew Desmond
21. Pax by Sara Pennypacker
22. Voyage of the Sable Venus by Robin Coste Lewis
23. The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet by Becky Chambers
24. Dead Man's Mirror by Agatha Christie
25. White Sky, Black Ice by Stan Jones
26. Shifting Shadows by Patricia Briggs
27. Divine Invasion by Philip K. Dick
28. Cry Wolf by Patricia Briggs
29. Hunting Ground by Patricia Briggs
30. Fair Game by Patricia Briggs
31. Dead Heat by Patricia Briggs
32. Venetia by Georgette Heyer
33. All the Light We Cannot See by Anthony Doerr
34. Devil's Cub by Georgette Heyer



April

35. Off the Grid by C.J. Box
36. Lighthead by Terrence Hayes
37. At The Threshold of Memory by Marjorie Agosin
38. A Manual for Cleaning Women by Lucia Berlin
39. Fire Touched by Patricia Briggs
40. The War That Saved My Life by Kimberly Brubaker Bradley
41. Life on Mars by Tracy K. Smith
42. The Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett, Inga Moore (re-read)
43. The Transmigration of Timothy Archer by Philip K. Dick
44. In a Different Key: The Story of Autism by John Donvan
45. Brotherhood in Death by J.D. Robb
46. The Dreamer by Pam Munoz Ryan
47. Rubbernecker by Belinda Bauer
48. The Bangkok Asset by John Burdett
49. The Swallows by Adriana Ramirez
50. The Summer Before the War by Helen Simonson
51. The Siege of Krishnapur by J.G. Farrell
52. The Island of Blue Dolphins by Scott O'Dell

May

53. When Breath Becomes Air by Paul Kalanithi
54. Shaman Pass by Stan Jones
55. Poems from the Typewriter Series by Tyler Knott Gregson
56. My Side of the Mountain by Jean Craighead George
57. Salt to the Sea by Ruta Sepetys
58. Dumb Witness by Agatha Christie
59. Without: Poems by Donald Hall
60. Dancing at the Rascal Fair by Ivan Doig
61. A Whole Life by Robert Seethaler
62. Last Night at the Lobster by Stewart O'Nan
63. Anna and the Swallow Man by Gavriel Savit
64. Zero World by Jason M. Hough
65. The Dream of a Common Language by Adrienne Rich
66. The Highwayman by Craig Johnson
67. Miracles on Maple Hill by Virginia Sorenson

June

68. The Royal Wulff Murders by Keith McCafferty
69. Lab Girl by Hope Jahren
70. Uprooted by Naomi Novik
71. Farmer Boy by Laura Ingalls Wilder
72. Dodgers by Bill Beverly
73. Jane Steele by Lyndsay Faye
74. Application for Release from the Dream by Tony Hoagland
75. Waterloo: The History of Four Days by Bernard Cornwell
76. The Lie Tree by Frances Hardinge
77. Silence in the Snowy Fields by Robert Bly
78. The Rook by Daniel O'Malley
79. An Infamous Army by Georgette Heyer
80. The Well Speaks of Its Own Poison by Maggie Smith

July

81. American Gods by Neil Gaiman
82. What is This Thing Called Love by Kim Addonizio
83. Charcoal Joe by Walter Mosley
84. Night Sky with Exit Wounds by Ocean Vuong
85. The Spanish Bride by Georgette Heyer
86. Ubik by Philip K. Dick
87. Everyone Brave is Forgiven by Chris Cleave
88. Dark Matter by Blake Crouch
89. The Wayward Bus by John Steinbeck
90. The Wild Robot by Peter Brown
91. The Last One by Alexandra Oliva
92. Binti by Nnedi Okorafor
93. Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi
94. Aeneid Book VI by Seamus Heaney

August

95. The Infinite Sea by Rick Yancy
96. The Paper Menagerie by Ken Liu
97. Flaubert's Parrot by Julian Barnes
98. Call it Courage by Armstrong Sperry
99. Dragon in Exile by Sharon Lee
100. I Shot the Buddha by Colin Cotterill
101. A Question of Death by Kerry Greenwood
102. Alliance of Equals by Sharon Lee
103. Rogue Heroes by Ben Macintyre
104. Strike Sparks by Sharon Olds
105. A Brief History of Seven Killings by Marlon James



September

106. A Civil Contract by Georgette Heyer
107. Lock & Mori by Heather W. Petty
108. Pines by Blake Crouch
109. Wayward by Blake Crouch
110. The Last Town by Blake Crouch
111. On the Banks of Plum Creek by Laura Ingalls Wilder
112. The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemison
113. A Great Reckoning by Louise Penny
114. Gods of Gotham by Lyndsey Faye
115. Bone Gap by Laura Ruby
116. How the Marquis Got His Coat Back by Neil Gaiman
117. Disasterology by Maggie Smith

118. The Last Days of Magic by Mark Tompkins
119. The Bookseller by Mark Pryor
120. Make Good Art by Neil Gaiman
121. An Irish Country Doctor by Patrick Taylor
122. The Crypt Thief by Mark Pryor
123. Zen City by Gregoire Hervier



October

124. Carry On by Rainbow Rowell
125. Apprentice in Death by J.D. Robb
126. The Woman Who Walked in Sunshine by Alexander McCall Smith
127. An Obvious Fact by Craig Johnson
128. The Hard Way by Lee Child
129. Hidden Figures by Margot Lee Shetterly
130. The Lost Leader by Mick Imlah
131. His Bloody Project by Graeme Macrae Burnet
132. Another Brooklyn by Jacqueline Woodson
133. Mister Pip by Lloyd Jones
134. Way Station by Clifford Simak
135. Slow Burn by Ace Atkins







November

136. Great North Road by Peter Hamilton
137. Dead Boys by Adriana Ramirez
138. The Poet's Dog by Patricia MacLachlan
139. The Last Star by Rick Yancey

Graphic Novels

1. The Fade Out by Ed Brubaker
2. Concrete Park by Tony Puryear
3. The Thrilling Adventures of Lovelace and Babbage by Sydney Padua
4. Roller Girl by Victoria Jamieson
5. Killing and Dying by Adrian Tomine
6. Sleeper by Ed Brubaker
7. Where is Jake Ellis by Nathan Edmondson
8. Lucifer by Mike Carey
9. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep Omnibus by Philip K. Dick
10. Super Mutant Magic Academy by Jillian Tamaki
11. The Fade Out Volume 2 by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips
12. Low Moon by Jason
13. The Fade Out Volume 3 by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips
14. Fatale by Ed Brubaker
15. Demo by Brian Wood
16. Alex + Ada by Jonathan Luna
17. Step Aside, Pops by Kate Beaton
18. The Property by Rutu Modan
19. Descender by Jeff Lemire
20. Ms. Marvel Vol. 4 by G. Willow Wilson
21. The Sleeper Omnibus by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips
22. Lucifer Volume 2 by Mike Carey
23. Paper Girls by Brian K. Vaughan
24. The Nameless City by Faith Erin Hicks
25. Ruins by Peter Kuper
26. Harrow County by Cullen Bunn
27. The Story of Mu by James Cordova
28. Torpedo Volume 1 by Enrique Sanchez Abuli
29. Lucifer Book Three by Mike Carey
30. Pocket Full of Rain by Jason
31. Batgirl by Gail Simone
32. Descender Volume 2 by Brian K. Vaughan
34. Deadly Class by Rick Remender
35. How to Fall Forever (Black Science) by Rick Remender
36. Hawkeye Volume 3 and Hawkeye Volume 4 by Matt Fraction
37. Wonder Woman: Earth One by Grant Morrison
38. The Planetary Omnibus by Warren Ellis
39. Princess Black by Shannon Hale
40. Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte and Amy Corzine
41. The Private Eye by Brian K. Vaughan
42. Missed Connections by Sophie Blackall
43. Patience by Daniel Clowes
44. How to Talk to Girls at Parties by Neil Gaiman
45. Maggie the Mechanic by Gilbert Hernandez
46. Almost Silent by Jason
47. Saga Volume 6 by Brian K. Vaughan
48. Lucifer Book Four by Mike Carey
49. Ms. Marvel Vol. 5 by G. Willow Wilson
50. The Time Machine by H.G. Wells and Lewis Helfland
51. Jessica Jones: Alias Volume 1 by Brian Michael Bendis
52. Lumberjanes Vol. 4 by Shannon Watters and Noelle Stevenson
53. Lady Killer by Jamie S. Rich
54. Morning Glories Volume 5 by Nick Spencer
55. Morning Glories Volume 6 by Nick Spencer
56. Jessica Jones Alias Vol. 2 by Brian M. Bendis
57. The New York Four by Brian Wood and Ryan Kelly
58. Rivers of London Body Work by Ben Aaronovitch
59. Velvet Volume 3 by Ed Brubaker
60. Black Widow: The Itsy-Bitsy Spider by Devin Grayson
61. The Bronx Kill by Peter Milligan
62. Lazarus by Greg Rucka
63. Lazarus Volume 2 by Greg Rucka
64. Ghosts by Raina Telgemeier
65. Bandette by Paul Tobin

Top 5 First Quarter of 2016

War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy
Tokyo Decadence by Ryu Murakami (finally available in the U.S.)
Evicted by Matthew Desmond
Pax by Sara Pennypacker
All the Light We Cannot See by Anthony Doerr

Top 5 Second Quarter 2016

A Manual for Cleaning Women by Lucia Berlin
The Summer Before the War by Helen Simonson
When Breath Becomes Air by Paul Kalanthi
Without: Poems by Donald Hall
Lab Girl by Hope Jahren

Top graphic novels so far in '16:

Super Mutant Magic Academy by Jillian Tamaki
The Sleeper Omnibus by Ed Brubaker
The Nameless City by Faith Erin Hicks
Pocket Full of Rain by Jason
How to Talk to Girls at Parties by Neil Gaiman
Saga Volume 6 by Brian K. Vaughan

Haven't gotten back to the Joe poem archives yet, but here's a T.S. Eliot one I've always liked a lot.

Preludes

By T. S. Eliot

I
The winter evening settles down
With smell of steaks in passageways.
Six o’clock.
The burnt-out ends of smoky days.
And now a gusty shower wraps
The grimy scraps
Of withered leaves about your feet
And newspapers from vacant lots;
The showers beat
On broken blinds and chimney-pots,
And at the corner of the street
A lonely cab-horse steams and stamps.

And then the lighting of the lamps.

II
The morning comes to consciousness
Of faint stale smells of beer
From the sawdust-trampled street
With all its muddy feet that press
To early coffee-stands.
With the other masquerades
That time resumes,
One thinks of all the hands
That are raising dingy shades
In a thousand furnished rooms.

III
You tossed a blanket from the bed,
You lay upon your back, and waited;
You dozed, and watched the night revealing
The thousand sordid images
Of which your soul was constituted;
They flickered against the ceiling.
And when all the world came back
And the light crept up between the shutters
And you heard the sparrows in the gutters,
You had such a vision of the street
As the street hardly understands;
Sitting along the bed’s edge, where
You curled the papers from your hair,
Or clasped the yellow soles of feet
In the palms of both soiled hands.

IV
His soul stretched tight across the skies
That fade behind a city block,
Or trampled by insistent feet
At four and five and six o’clock;
And short square fingers stuffing pipes,
And evening newspapers, and eyes
Assured of certain certainties,
The conscience of a blackened street
Impatient to assume the world.

I am moved by fancies that are curled
Around these images, and cling:
The notion of some infinitely gentle
Infinitely suffering thing.

Wipe your hand across your mouth, and laugh;
The worlds revolve like ancient women
Gathering fuel in vacant lots.

Time for some coffee.



By Alice Pasquini

Morning, Joe! Happy new one!

Morning, Mamie! Your quickness is exemplary. The usual?

Happy new one, Joe!

Happy new thread, Joe!

Lovely toppers by Esau Andrade, I never saw someone with first name Esau ever before, except in the Bible.

>8 katiekrug: Thanks, Katie!

>9 FAMeulstee: Esau is an unusual name, isn't it, Anita? I love his work. He's Mexican, from a family of folk artists.

>5 jnwelch: wow! That is a painting I would love to hang in my home!

>10 jnwelch: She's good, isn't she, Chelle? A favorite street artist of Brodie's. I'd love to have a big room full of her paintings.

>7 jnwelch: Yes, sir! Looks delicious. Thanks, Joe!

Morning Joe! Happy New Thread. Love the colorful bookish toppers.

Gorgeous day in Chicagoland. This is November 1st, right?

I have some poetry to report on, so I will be back with that.

Go Cubs! Let's keep this thing going.

Good morning and happy new thread, Joe!

>5 jnwelch: Love this one.

Shout out to >5 jnwelch: on page 22. I don't know how I thought that was Pasquani, but it is beautiful as well.

Edit: >12 jnwelch: You know me well, Joe. :-)

>13 Crazymamie: :-)

>14 msf59: Morning Mark! Thanks - glad you love the colorful toppers. He's got a bunch of good ones. I'm going to try one of the books he's illustrated.

Bee-yoo-tee-full out there. Amazing. So great to have decent weather last night, too, for the trick-or-treaters. We get a big crowd on our street every year, and it was really festive in this weather.

Looking forward to the poetry report. Just got my hands on the Mitchell translation of Rilke, and I can already see that I'm going to enjoy this more than whatever translation I read way back when.

Go Cubs! Exciting times, buddy.

>15 brodiew2: Thanks, Brodie! Isn't that a good Pasquini in >5 jnwelch:? I knew you'd appreciate that one. :-)

Good morning! Happy new thread and colorful thread toppers!

Happy new thread, Joe!! You have quite an eye for art.

>17 Morphidae: Good morning, Morphy! Thank you! I can't resist posting some additional Andrade illustrations, so you'll see more like those colorful toppers.

Here's another from our friend Esau.

>18 Carmenere: Hi, Lynda! Thank you!

I get a real charge out of well done art. One of life's gifts to us, right?

Did you buy a copy of The Rilke? I still have to that. Thanks for the reminder.

>22 msf59: I did, Mark. It sounded too tempting (thank you, Ellie!) not to have. We can have a two-person group read!

Happy New Thread Joe! And a Happy New Month too!

Hey hey hey, it is November! We've got a way to go, but once we push past Thanksgiving, we have BLACK FRIDAY!!!! Can't hardly wait.

*snork*

Esau. Nice!

>24 Smiler69: Thanks, Ilana! It's Election Day soon. Scary, but I'm looking forward to being on the other side of it. (I already voted for the good guys in Early Voting).

>25 weird_O: Hey, hey, hey, Bill! I know you're probably one of those who has his strategy mapped out for Black Friday and is first in line at the store at 3 am, to make sure you have first access to the best weirdest bargains. What store is your favorite for that? :-)

Glad you enjoyed the work of our friend Esau.

Yet another fantastic artist to showcase, Joe! I love the pictures.

Have you talked about Way Station yet? I keep looking.

New thread! Love the topper. The connection with folk art makes sense.

I just read about a new graphic memoir coming out next year by the author of Red Rosa (Kate Evans), looking at her experiences visiting the refugees stuck in camps at Calais. There's some of her work on her website, I'll look for the book next year. http://www.cartoonkate.co.uk/threads-the-calais-cartoon/

>27 ronincats: Oh good, Roni. I'm happy you love Esau's pictures. I'm probably going to add more every once in a while.

Jeesh, in my travels I forgot about Way Station! What the heck's the matter with me? I'm lucky I remembered where the new cafe is. As you know, I very much enjoyed Way Station, and I can see why it holds that classic status. I'll add it to my "have read" list if I didn't yet, and will make a few comments. I won't bore you with how many things have interrupted my LT time, but it's everyone else's fault, not mine. (I'm still working a bit on maturity - hard to get rid of a 5 year old's POV).

>28 charl08: Hi, Charlotte! I thought the same thing - there's a strong connection there with folk art. What a talent.

I've got Red Rosa on my GN WL, I'm sure due to your enthusiasm. Refugees in camps in Calais - I'll keep an eye out for that one, too.

Happy new thread, Joe. I don't remembering reading that T S Elliott poem in its entirety before. Thanks for sharing that and the colourful art that graces your thread.

>31 Familyhistorian: Thanks, Meg. The brilliance of that Eliot poem gets me every time. I'm glad it and the colourful Esau Andrade art resonated with you.

November is upon us...better put on an extra pot of hot chocolate!

>4 jnwelch: Preludes is a favourite of mine too, Joe. I would rank Eliot just above Yeats as the premier poet of the 20th century writing in english.

Happy new thread mate.

>26 jnwelch: You are only slightly correct about my Black Friday strategy, Joe, the correctness being that I DO HAVE a strategy. But not waiting in lines at 3 a.m. Not EVER that. What I do is sleep in, say, 'til 9 or 9:30. Bounce out of bed to brew some espresso/cappuccino, then retire to my bed, now mounded with extra pillows, for to sip that cuppa and read quietly. See?

Have a swell week, Joe.

Happy new thread, Joe!

Joe, I found the item on the cover of Four Roads Cross that I wanted to share last week and posted it in my thread.

just swooping in to say g'morning Joe as i head for bed. JB happened to tune in to the Cubs at the top of the 3rd so we got to see Russell clean up the bases. lordy, was that gorgeous or what? i haven't watched baseball since Dad died 30 years ago and it was great fun. can you imagine being 23 and hitting a slammer? it makes me want desperately to be able to find and reread Southpaw fly hawk, by Addison Rand, a book i read many times in my yout'.

later, tater. have a good 'un.

Hi Joe - Happy New Thread. I see you're enjoying Great North Road, I read it back when it first came out. I've got his Fallen Dragon lined up, just waiting for the audio version to come out in a few days as I love John Lee narrating his books.

Morning, Joe! Happy new thread!

>33 laytonwoman3rd: You've got your thinking cap on, Linda - here we go:

>34 PaulCranswick: Agreed, mate. Eliot then Yeats for me, too. Preludes is a knockout, isn't it. Recently I've been seeing connections to The Wasteland that I hadn't before.

>35 weird_O: That's a most excellent Black Friday strategy, Bill. I'm going to follow your lead. That sounds way better than being out in the 3 am nippiness in a line full of bargain hunters.

Hope you have a swell and weird week yourself.

>36 kidzdoc: Thanks, Darryl! Hope all is well in Atlanta. We've got a lot of happy Cubs fans over here.

>37 ronincats: Hi, Roni. The Max Gladstone book. Okey-doke, I'll come over and ponder.

>38 mirrordrum: G'mornin', m'dear! Wasn't that something with our young pal Addison? He may be 23, but he looks about 12 years old, doesn't he? A grand slam in the World Series! He must have thought he was dreaming. He did a bit of a moonwalk in the dugout to quietly celebrate on his own after getting mobbed by his teammates.

Big game 7 tonight!

I don't know Southpaw Fly Hawk - the touchstone has it written by Adolph Regli? I read a lot of John R. Tunis when I was a kid, with Highpockets and The Kid from Tomkinsville being two of my favorites. One of those treasure trove discoveries at the library, once I tried one and liked it.

See ya soon, macaroon. Enjoy that lovely part of the country you're in.

>39 avatiakh: Hi, Kerry. Thanks!

I finished Great North Road, and was impressed that he managed to answer all those puzzling questions, including the many about Angela and Rebka. Read him on audio? I can't even imagine - I'd be going through Christmas with that book if I tried it that way. Although I've recently seen multiple favorables about that narrator John Lee.

>40 scaifea: Morning, Madame Trelawney Amber! Thanks!

Isn't that true!! I have so many series on the go that when they end I will be so sad!

Morning, Joe!

>46 jnwelch: I know that feeling well, Joe, as this year I finished up both Jackson Brodie and Sookie Stackhouse.

>47 ChelleBearss: You and me both, Chelle! I thought Lois McMaster Bujold was done with the Vorkosigan books, and I'm very glad she still does one once in a while. I think we all felt a little of that "what do I do with the rest of my life" when we finished the last Harry Potter book.

>48 Crazymamie: Morning, Mamie!

Yeah, I'll bet most of us know that >46 jnwelch: feeling well. I need to read the Jackson Brodie books! I started Case Histories years ago, and I didn't like the story line. I'll try again.

I read somewhere that not many readers are aware of sci-fi writer Clifford Simak any more. I hope that's not true. His City, featuring intelligent, peace-loving dogs who've inherited an abandoned planet, was a big deal for me when I was a kid, and he had some wonderful short stories. After Roni identified Way Station as her favorite of his, I got off my duff and finally read it. Although I may not be as starry-eyed now as when I read City, I very much enjoyed this tale of a seemingly ageless Civil War veteran in the 1960s, Enoch, living in rural Wisconsin and involved in mysterious doings that may turn out to be alien-related.

He lives in a mysterious farmhouse "so slick and smooth that dust could not cling upon its surface, nor weather stain it". Simak has a tranquil, evocative writing style, and he lovingly describes the woodland area in which Enoch lives and his daily routine, including brewing his coffee in an old metal pot. In that time of Cold War fears, Enoch, in his farmhouse in the Wisconsin woods, may be at the crossroad of humanity destroying itself, or instead joining the Galactic community.

The story, which draws in government agents, local rascals, and intriguing offworlders, features a macguffin called the Talisman, and some supernatural elements via a deaf and mute local girl. The story elements of this Hugo award winner may not be at the level of a Dune or Childhood's End, but it is a reader-friendly and vivid tale that felt like I was reading it out in the woods by a crackling fire. Simak's writing ages much better than that of many other sci-fi writers from that time period, and I hope he continues to get the recognition he deserves.

By Steve McCurry in Tibet

>50 jnwelch: Added to Mount TBR.

Great photos and art Joe. As the Danes say, it's very huggeligt (hoogeligt) - cozy/homely is a rough trans.

>46 jnwelch: I just read something else...

Morning Joe! I think this city is getting ready to explode, eh? The last modern hold out, in Chicago, for a major sports team, is now on the brink...

Reading is suffering a little but I will catch up.

Good morning, Joe!

>50 jnwelch: Nice review of Way Station. It has been on my radar forever, but I have never partaken. I'll keep it in mind.

>50 jnwelch: Evocative is the perfect word for Simak's style in this book, Joe!

ETA Please post your review so I can give it a thumb.

>52 Morphidae: Good! I think it's one you'll enjoy, Morphy.

>53 Caroline_McElwee: Thanks, Caroline. Glad you're liking the photos and art - that Steve McCurry is a standout. He has done so many good ones.

Huggeligt? Those Danes must be as bad as the consonant-crazy Welsh. Apparently cozy in Welsh is "clyd", which is a marvel of brevity in that language.

>51 jnwelch: Oh. She knows many things. Stunning.

>54 msf59: Morning Mark! You are a reading warrior, I know. No sniffling after a beloved series ends; you just charge onward, leaving the rest of us in the dust, weeping and disheveled. What the heck is the matter with you?

What a great series it has been. Who knows - I'm optimistic about tonight, that's for sure. This team of young guys is really something, isn't it? Addison Russell looks about 12 years old, and grand slams his way into history. That Heyward throw from right field - wow.

I was saying to Lynda, it's tough to read during these games! :-)

>55 brodiew2: Hiya, Brodie. Thanks re the Way Station review. That's been on my "to read" list for ages - thank goodness for Roni's push. Hope we both inspire you to partake at some point.

>56 ronincats: Oh good, Roni, thanks. Yeah, I really enjoyed his writing. I can see where Enoch lives even now. I'll post it - thank you in advance for the thumb!

ETA: OK, it's on the book page now. Thanks again.

I know you were watching the game last night but PBS had a fine 2 hour production about the Battle of the Choisin Reservoir during the Korean War. It was very well done with lots of information that I did not know. Maybe you can take time to watch it on uTube.

>61 benitastrnad: Thanks, Benita. Right you are about watching the game. Thanks for the tip. That's a battle I know nothing about. When not game-bound, we're watching the (recorded) PBS special on Lin-Manuel Miranda's Hamilton, which is excellent.

>58 laytonwoman3rd: Exactly, Linda. She knows many things. What a portrait!

super sweet Thursday, Joe. what a ride, huh? Chi-town outta be slap happy.

tell you what, the series has brought ruination to my nights. ;-)

also, Gardam being Gardam, Faith Fox is looking to be a good one. not great but decidedly, wonderfully, sharper than a serpent's tooth Gardam. how good it is to be back in her thrall.

hope to catch you later, mate.

Oh, gosh, Joe, I LOVED Way Station - I'm glad to see that you liked it, too.

Happy new thread, Joe.

>64 mirrordrum: Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet Thursday, Ellie! Wow! Chi-town was slap-happy through the wee hours, and there are a lot of sleepy, happy grins out there now.

Yeah, that was an exciting series, wasn't it? 7th game, 8-7, 10th inning? Are you kidding me?

You and Anne turned me into a Gardam fan. Glad to hear Faith Fox provides more sharp enjoyment.

Swing on by later, if you have the time. My big plan for today is to drink coffee and not fall out of my chair.

>65 scaifea: Hooray! Way Station is a spell-binder, isn't it, Amber? Good to have some company. Maybe you, Roni and I can lift a glass to Enoch some day.

They did it!! Cubs win!!

Congrats!! Were you able to stay up and watch all 10 innings?

>69 ChelleBearss: Thanks, Chelle! Yes -that tie game and rain delay got me out of our family room. I watched the last inning on my phone in bed, and then sprinted out with Madame MBH to join the street celebration. We live about a mile and a half from Wrigley Field, where the Cubs play, and everyone was hugging and shouting and laughing, with fireworks going off all over the place. 108 years since the last one - a lot of folks up in heaven are celebrating, too!

I recorded it, so we replayed Zobrist and Montero getting the winning hits. What a game! Seemed like the Cubs made it way more exciting than it needed to be, but Cleveland's a really good team.

Alice Pasquini

>68 jnwelch: One for the record books...nobody will ever call this series boring, will they? Congratulations, Cubbies, and Cubs fans everywhere!

WOO HOO!! for the Cubs! I stayed up to watch the whole thing . . . though I did leave the TV for a while when the tarp went on the field. Congrats to all you Cubs fans!

When the game went to extra innings, I googled to see when that had happened in the past with extra-inning Game 7. All the other times it happened, the winning run was scored in the bottom of the final inning -- so the home team won all the other times.

I was really annoyed that our Fox station cut away to do the news as soon as the game was over, and a few interviews were done. We didn't get to see the trophy presented.

For you Dr. Strange fans (I may be in a one-person fan club!), the new movie got a positive review in the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/movies/doctor-strange-review.html?referrer=goo...

>72 laytonwoman3rd: Thanks, Linda! Yeah, what a series. It's going to be remembered as one of the most exciting ever, I'm sure. Cleveland is a talented team that played so well. Great win for the Cubs!

>73 tymfos: Woo-hoo! So great, Terri, thanks.

Intriguing - I wondered about extra inning 7th games in the past. Home teams won every time - so winning away in the 10th will be the Cubs badge of honor. Before this season, I just didn't see the Cubs breaking the jinx, but this young team could've cared less about the history of futility. They're just a great group of players, very talented, and always pulling for each other. We're going to be seeing good baseball in this town for years to come.

Too bad about the cutaway - as you can imagine, they didn't do that in Chicago! We got to see it all. Zobrist was a good choice for MVP, although so many came through at important times in that series.

Congrats on the big game, Joe! No one could have scripted a more exciting evening.....!

>74 jnwelch: You are not in a one man fan club. Very excited for this one.

Congrats to the Cub fans! I was nervous about this last game.. The last I looked they were behind so it's great to see they won!

>70 jnwelch: Wow, that sounds like a fun experience!!

>76 jessibud2: Thanks, Shelley! Ain't that the truth. These guys never got down, even when the odds were stacked against them or Cleveland did something amazing, like that tying home run. They just kept fighting. What a series!

>77 Oberon: Oh good, Erik. Nice to have some company. :-) I just read that Cumberbatch showed up at a comic book store unannounced, in costume, and offered to work behind the register. He seems like quite the decent bloke.

>78 Morphidae: Thanks, Morphy! I know you got swept into this against your usual modus operandi. :-) They just kept fighting. No hand-wringing, no woe is me, just go out and play hard. Hats off to Cleveland, who kept fighting back and never gave up either.

>79 ChelleBearss: 'Twas, Chelle! What a great thing for the city. It's a young core of players, too (like the Blackhawks in hockey), so there should be a lot of fun times ahead.

Congrats on the win!

>82 drneutron: Thanks, Jim! The Nationals some day?

Good morning, Joe! The skies are clear here in greater Seattle for the first time in what seems like weeks.

>68 jnwelch: Congrats to the Cubs! History is made...and in dramatic fashion.

>71 jnwelch: Nice Pasquini.

>74 jnwelch: I'm looking forward to Doctor Strange as well. He was never one of my favorite characters, but like most Marvel films, it looks amazing.

>84 brodiew2: Excellent, Brodie. Enjoy those clear skies! It's actually pretty darn nice here, too - lower 60s F and a blue sky with a bit of haze.

That was a dramatic series, wasn't it - and this kind of history is much better than that previous history of futility. :-)

That's a nice Pasquini, isn't it. She has brightened up a lot of urban areas, bless her.

I'm glad you're looking forward to the Doctor Strange movie. Growing up in the 60s, his bizarre world really worked for me, and I'd look for his comics first when my sister and I went to the comic book store. Our kids have teased me about that preference for years. I've got Dr. Strange figurines, and so on. The only other Doctor Strange movie that was ever made, to my knowledge, was one of those terrible 70s ones that are painful to watch. If this one has Cumberbatch and gets a thumbs up from the NY Times, the experience should be a high-flying good time. It's directed by Christopher Nolan, and they're comparing it to his Inception, which I liked a lot. (My affinity for dreams and the bizarre coming to the forefront again).

Morning, Joe. Super Sweet Thursday, indeed. Glad to see all the Cubs love over here too. Such a great win.

I am a bit bleary today but it was worth it. Now, we need to get this ugly election behind us. Ugh.

Morning, Mark! Great win, indeed. I know, Debbi and I were talking about how great it was for all of us to be distracted from this ugly election. I'm going to stay distracted for a while. :-) I already voted, anyway.

You've got lots of bleary-eyed company today. At least the weather's decent. Hope it goes okay, and you can head home on time or even early to have a celebratory brew.

>85 jnwelch: There is a decent animated Doctor Strange movie.

>88 Oberon: Thanks, Erik. I can't believe you know about that! I've seen that one, too. Decent is a good word for it. There's reason to hope this new one will be more than that.

Congratulations to your Cubs, Joe. Such an exciting finish! I also enjoyed Way Station when I read it last year and now need to hunt down some more of Clifford D. Simak's work.

Congratulations on the Cubs win, Joe.
Must have been an exiting celebration!

>90 DeltaQueen50: Thanks, Judy. It's a happy time in our city. The Cubs had flubbed it with our "national pastime" for more than a century, so it's got a lot of meaning here - including people remembering Cubs fans who hoped during their lifetime and are no longer with us. Wasn't that an exciting finish? Too exciting, if you're from here - really, a three run lead and you can't hold onto it? But credit Cleveland. What a hard-fought series.

Great to hear you also enjoyed Way Station. It's been so long for me that you'll have to take my recommendation with a grain of salt, but I remember his City, and its dog citizens, vividly. Take a peek at that one. I'm probably going to re-read it now.

>91 FAMeulstee: Thanks, Anita! It was an exciting celebration. For some (not us), the excitement was amplified by large helpings of alcohol, so there was a whole lot of loud going on, along with much hugging and whooping. Our daughter lives near one of the conduits (Addison street) to "Wrigleyville", where Cubs fans gathered to share the joy. She said it was so loud that our favorite furry detective, Sherlock, got scared. All of it benign, thank goodness. I was just telling someone that the city usually doesn't get out of hand at championship time.

>89 jnwelch: It has been awhile since my level of nerdiness has surprised someone.

>50 jnwelch: Simak was one of my two or three favorite SF writers way back when. City was also my favorite, and I plan to re-read it before too long. Waystation was probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite and I still enjoyed it when I re-read it a few years ago, though my memory of it kept better than the re-read. I think I have gotten a lot more critical about what I read with 40 years in between! Some of Simak's stuff is really science fantasy rather than fiction. I agree he should not be forgotten.

>93 Oberon: LOL! The nerds are inheriting the earth, Erik. I hope we meet up some day, and if you make it to Chicago, maybe our daughter can make fun, not just of me, but of you, too.

>94 RBeffa: Ah, love it, Ron. And City was your favorite! This is as good as a Cubs win! Well, almost. Which one came in second or third, depending, and wasn't Way Station? I remember reading short stories by him and liking them, but I don't remember whether it was in Analog magazine or something like that, or in a book. Yeah, to your science fantasy point, City won the International Fantasy Award, which seems bizarre to me. But there certainly was some "magic" in Way Station.

You and Judy and Roni, and I'm probably missing someone, give me hope about Simak not being forgotten.

Fun to read your long term Dr Strange enthusiasm. I'd not even heard the name before they started promoting the film.

The promo has included some great footage of them filming in Tibet too. Looks like it will be visually impressive. (And Tilda Swinton is always a good sign).

>95 jnwelch: That sounds fun. My wife can sit and roll her eyes as she endures the witty banter.

"well hello, Mr. Soul, i just stopped by to pick up a reason
for the thought that I caught that my head was the event of the season . . ." ear worm. don't ask me.

sorry to read about Sherlock getting twitchy.

nice review of Way Station. i smiled at the quote you offer: "so slick and smooth that dust could not cling upon its surface, nor weather stain it." a bit like Enobarbus's description of Cleopatra, i'd say.

i'm still rousting round w/ your last Joe poem. life has gotten in my way a bit but i'm hoping to get back to it. as usual, many questions, e.g. why do they become royalty in the evening? What does royalty denote? and not just royalty but something sacred? much visiting of synonyms.

at night there is the transition from, what, commoners? the laboring classes? ordinary people? occurs with appearance of the sacred vessel and its contents.

meditating on the fact that anger, opportunity, slither are all active subjects and the prince and princess apparently objects. i presume that the lost prince would have been the "royal" heir which begs the question "to what kingdom, what throne?" and, it sometimes is the case that the surviving children are not equal to the lost child who is the child of wish, of loss, of dream, unsullied.

oh and etc. enough hijacking. i'll post the rest at some point off-list as it does take a good bit of working through.

i tell you what, this is the first time in my life, much as i love poetry, that i've felt emboldened to look at poetry in this way, this closely. it's quite a gift. makes me feel that, as the reader, i'm part of the process of the poem. thank you. iirc, Danticat would concur.

>95 jnwelch: This is what I wrote about Simak in a book review in 2011, when I read one of the few of his novels I had not read before:
"When I was younger I read just about every Simak book that I could get my hands on. Novels of his such as "Waystation" and "City" and "All Flesh Is Grass" I consider as personal favorites and genuine classics of the genre. I loved most of his stuff, although a few of his last novels didn't do much for me. And there were a few books I never did read. Ring Around the Sun was one of them."

So, without a re-read of All Flesh Is Grass I don't know if I'd place it as #2 or #3. There are one or two others in memory such as A Choice of Gods that might put up a fight too. He has some excellent short stories in collections as well, as you remember correctly.

Congratulations on your Cubs, Joe! What with the rain delay, the game finished up just in time for the 10 o'clock news, but it was a little less convenient for you..

I'm looking forward to the Dr. Strange movie, too, even though I don't know much about the character, I'm afraid. The more I see of Cumberbatch, the more I'm impressed with his skills, and I think he'll do a fantastic job.

Morning, Joe and happy Friday! It feels soooo good to get back to normalcy and a decent nights sleep!

>96 charl08: I can't believe that what sounds like a good Dr. Strange movie is coming out after all this time, Charlotte. It just got a good review in our Chicago Tribune, too. You're right, Tilda Swinton is always a good sign. And Kennedy Bumbershoot as the Doctor. Wow.

>97 Oberon: Ha! Our daughter has several photos of her rolling her eyes at me, Erik. She and your wife are bound to hit it off.

>98 mirrordrum: Buffalo Springfield? Maybe it was the talk of the '60s and Dr. Strange that got you, Ellie. :-)

We had the esteemed Sherlock visiting us yesterday for a long while, and he seems to have recovered just fine. He finds sitting on laps quite soothing.

Glad you liked the Way Station review. Wow, that was a learned reference to Enobarbus! I have to quote the first part, too, because it has ties to The Wasteland, which we were talking about earlier. Then comes the part I think you're referring to:

"Enobarbus: I will tell you.
The barge she sat in, like a burnish’d throne,
Burned on the water: the poop was beaten gold;
Purple the sails, and so perfumed that
The winds were lovesick with them; the oars were silver,
Which to the tune of flutes kept stroke, and made
The water which they beat to follow faster,
As amorous of their strokes. For her own person,
It beggar’d all description: she did lie
In her pavilion, cloth-of-gold of tissue,
O’erpicturing that Venus where we see
The fancy outwork nature: on each side her
Stood pretty dimpled boys, like smiling Cupids,
With divers-colour’d fans, whose wind did seem
To glow the delicate cheeks which they did cool,
And what they undid did.

* * *

Age cannot wither her, nor custom stale
Her infinite variety. Other women cloy
The appetites they feed, but she makes hungry
Where most she satisfies; for vilest things
Become themselves in her, that the holy priests
Bless her when she is riggish."

Riggish means lustful.

Eliot revered Anthony and Cleopatra, according to Harlod Bloom. Here's the start of the second section of The Wasteland:

"The Chair she sat in, like a burnished throne,
Glowed on the marble, where the glass
Held up by standards wrought with fruited vines
From which a golden Cupidon peeped out
(Another hid his eyes behind his wing)
Doubled the flames of sevenbranched candelabra
Reflecting light upon the table as
The glitter of her jewels rose to meet it,
From satin cases poured in rich profusion;
In vials of ivory and coloured glass
Unstoppered, lurked her strange synthetic perfumes,
Unguent, powdered, or liquid—troubled, confused
And drowned the sense in odours; stirred by the air
That freshened from the window, these ascended ..."

Quite a different angle, as the rest makes even more clear.

In "Evening Martinis", the royalty's origin began with her becoming the imperious queen, enabled by the conflicted king who understands her sorrow. The prince and princess ineffectually try to stop the transformation. But being a powerful queen, able to speak harsh "truth", has a lot of attraction, right?

I don't think either the prince or princess has any interest in inheriting that throne. They just want the woman who's there before the evening martinis to stay, and the queen to go away. But maybe at some level the pre-martinis woman and the queen are one and the same, and maybe the prince and princess need to understand that, as the king does, painful as it might be for everyone.

Very happy to hear that you're enjoying engaging with the poems. I've got the Danticat you sent lined up for near-soon reading. :-)

>99 RBeffa: Thanks, Ron. All Flesh is Grass will be my next one, then, and I'll take a look at A Choice of Gods. There must be a short story collection, too. It feels good to be re-connected with his writing.

>100 ronincats: Oh my, I envy you your time zone, Roni. The Cubs-Indians game 7 sure didn't end before the 10 o'clock news here!

The parade is today at noon, and at 7:30 am there already was a ton of folks heading east from the trains in Cubs gear, I'm sure looking to take up prime viewing positions. MVP Ben Zobrist actually lives one street over from us with his wife and kids, and the poor, friendly guy was out signing autographs and having his picture taken with neighborhood folks and others for an awfully long time yesterday. Obviously a very nice guy (I haven't met him), but at some point he must have had to say, I can't do any more, because people just kept coming.

Anyway, exciting times in Chi-town. Election? What election?

>101 scaifea: Agreed re Benedict Bumbershoot, Amber. His playing Sherlock so well has put him in our daughter's high esteem, too. Sounds like the movie is good and deserves to do well; we'll see how it goes. Our weekend is too packed (a basketball game and two plays) to go see it, but I hope to go the weekend after this.

>102 Carmenere: Good morning and Happy Friday, Lynda! Yes! I overslept by a half hour, but cut corners to arrive around the normal time. I'm getting a wee bit up in years to be up late celebrating victories, but it was irresistible. So great. What an admirable group of players on that team. The parade should rival the Blackhawks'.

Esau Andrade

Morning, Joe! Happy Friday! And congrats to your Cubs!

>50 jnwelch: Nice review - you got me with that one. Adding it to the list, and I will give you my thumb if you posted that.

>74 jnwelch:, >77 Oberon: Me, too! Along with the rest of the humans at the Pecan Paradisio.

Morning Joe! Happy Friday. Glorious day for a parade, eh?
I will have to come back and check out the poetry, plus I owe you my own book reports. The final Cubs win has suddenly liberated me. Yah!

>108 Crazymamie: Morning and Happy Friday, Mamie! Thanks!

I'm glad you liked the review, and thanks for the thumb. Way Station is one you'll enjoy.

Go Dr. Strange! I'm glad you're excited, too. The fan club grows. :-)

>109 msf59: Good morning, and Happy Friday, Mark!

Beautiful day for a parade. You'd love seeing all the people heading that way.

Ha! Yeah, those darn wonderful Cubs were interfering with reading time all over the place, weren't they? We should have a reading parade, too.

Check out The Waste Land some day. It's a masterpiece. Paul and I put Eliot at the top of our modern poet list.

I've always loved this Miles Davis one by André Garden Berg

LIKE! And I love Miles Davis. Just saying...

Good morning, Joe! Happy Friday!

>106 jnwelch: Did you write Benedict Bumbershoot on purpose? His Sherlock is fantastic. So manic. I watched on the the Jeremy Brett Sherlock's recently and saw a bit of influence on the Cumberbatch.

>111 jnwelch: Nice. The cracks in the wall blend so well, enriching the painting.

>112 Crazymamie: :-) Me, too, Mamie.

>113 brodiew2: Good morning and Happy Friday, Brodie!

I did write Benedict Bumbershoot on purpose. Just being weird, I guess. Our daughter is such a fan that I used to screw up his name on purpose to annoy her. Somewhere up there is "Kennedy Bumbershoot", too.

Like you, I love his Sherlock. And Johnny Lee Miller does a different and bloody great take on Sherlock in Elementary. I remember the Jeremy Brett Sherlock. I still have a lot of affection for Basil Rathbone's Sherlock, too.

Agreed re the Miles Davis painting. I also love the way the windows are so casually integrated. What an eye.

As the title suggests, this Kindle Single collection of connected essays by our DIL is about young boys who died - particularly in Columbia, Mexico and near the U.S. -Mexico border. That includes her older brother who died in a horse-riding accident with her and her parents present. As I said to her, Dead Boys is heart-breaking, thought-provoking, and beautifully written. The original version won the PEN/Fusion Prize for Emerging Writers; this version is even better. Much better, IMO, actually, and I liked the first version a lot.

The following is from an interview with "Gloria", whose son Pablito was shot down on the street for failure to repay a loan shark. He had taken the loan to buy his way out of the military (apparently a common practice) and start a new life. Holding a photo of Pablito and his cousin Miguel, Gloria says,

"I brought this picture on purpose. I wanted you to see what I live. Miguel joined FARC {a guerilla group} after Pablito died. He carries a machine gun and says he's going to kill all the rich. There you go. Two boys. Both good. One died stupid, and the other lives bad. That's what we got, that's what I got."

She actually was glad Pablito died that way, because then it was "easier to identify the body." Usually the killings were more secretive.

Another essay explains Adriana being confounded by the limited and impersonal reporting in 2012 of nine people hanged on a bridge in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico. It was a bridge she had crossed many times. Fourteen heads were found in coolers the same day. She is struck by the tolerance to violence that has developed, and our ability to simply return to concerns about shopping or going to clubs. Columbia has been in a civil war for 60 years, and a recent rapprochement with one guerilla group is encouraging, but also cause for cynicism.

It's hard to imagine more value for the dollar than a $1.99 for this one. If you can handle the subject matter, this is brilliant writing.

>115 jnwelch: - Sounds excellent! I have purchased my copy :)

>116 katiekrug: Yay! Glad to hear it, Katie.

>74 jnwelch: I'm planning to see this at the weekend.

>111 jnwelch: - Stunning art! Thanks for finding that.

>115 jnwelch: - Your daughter-in-law sounds like a strong and compassionate woman, Joe. I don't own a kindle (or any e-reader) and am not so sure I could *handle* the rawness of her subject matter but I have nothing but deep admiration and respect for people like her, who commit to exposing and telling the stories that so many would prefer to keep hidden. The world needs more voices (and hearts) like hers.

>118 Caroline_McElwee: Ah, excellent, Caroline. Wish we were there to go with you.

>119 jessibud2: Isn't >111 jnwelch: stunning, Shelley? I'm glad you like it. That's one of my favorites.

Adriana is indeed a strong and passionate woman. Thanks for the thoughtful words - I agree, we all need more voices and hearts like hers. She's got a big one coming out next Spring from Scribner's called "The Violence" (no touchstone yet) which I haven't read and am really looking forward to.

hiya, Joe.

>104 jnwelch: sadly, not a learned reference abt Enobarbus. all down to Google. it was the rhythm or whatever that reminded me of the quote, which practically everyone knows. i remember a great story Dame Judi tells about when she was playing Cleopatra and the director--Peter Hall was it?--told her not to feel that she had to believe or try to enact everything that others said about her. it's just a guy boasting to his mates at the pub. she said that advice had stood her in good stead during her career.

i won't tax you with comments about your comments about Evening martinis except to say that i was referring to the son who died as the presumptive heir. i'm probably overthinking. i hope he was given a name. it's worrying and painful that he was unknown to his brother and sister.

>105 jnwelch: great bit about Zobrist, accommodating fellow. lovely. ah, the perils of fame. nice to think that, despite the existence of social media and the instant sharing of the event *and* the selfies, the memory of getting the autograph will be something for these folks to tell grandchildren along w/ the story of the game. hope so, anyway.

the crows are calling and the white-throated sparrows. away, i'm bound away. have a splendid weekend.

>104 jnwelch: No worries, I had to Google Enobarbus's description to figure it all out. :-) Once I saw what you were referring to, I remembered the Waste Land connection.

Ah, I did miss what you were saying. I'm told the son who died was named Clark. He was before me, so you're right, he would've been the presumptive heir. On top of everything else, I supposedly was a surprise - I understand they thought they were done, and then I showed up. With a huge space-baby head.

Zobrist was remarkably patient, from what I know. He seems like a really good guy. That seems to be true of the whole bunch of them. I think I mentioned that Lester and Rizzo are cancer survivors, and that Lester helped Rizzo deal with it when Rizzo found out. That would give some perspective right there, right?

You're on the mark about the selfie-type memories. Everyone looks so happy!

Say hello to the crows and the white-throated sparrows. I hope you and JB have a splendid weekend, too.

>115 jnwelch: What Katie said, Joe, I also purchased it.

>41 jnwelch: love the cup-jumpers (warmers, that is- a jumper is what I would call what you would call a sweater, maybe)

Now that I am out of that ridiculously complicated sentence, I will simply say hello. :)

Even if it is Fall it is still way to warm here - still in the 80's, every day. And the city of Birmingham has declared a stage 4 water emergency. People can only water lawns once a week and no car washing. The flash forest fires continue and of course the big fire caused by the Colonial Pipeline blast didn't help. By Western standards that one was a small fire but down here 200 acres is a big fire. The fire departments here are being stretched thin.

The Colonial Pipeline blast and fire (which is still burning) makes me think that the people in North Dakota who are trying to stop the building of that pipeline might be right. The pipe that leaked here two months ago ran gasoline right into the Cahaba River, and the accident that happened last Monday is still burning and leaking gasoline into an undetermined amount of land and watersheds. The final determinations about the cause has not been made, but the pipeline is 30 years old and the company had known it was leaking for 3 months before the big spill of two months ago. I hope the EPA puts the screws to this company just like they did the TVA over the coal slurry spill in Tennessee. This is a big environmental disaster and it really isn't getting much press.

HRC is correct we need to do something about the infrastructure in this country.

>115 jnwelch: Ooh, I have to get my mitts on this one. Sounds like my cuppa.

>121 mirrordrum: I want to see a white-throated sparrow. Wah!

Happy Saturday, Joe. Another gorgeous fall day. Keep 'em coming.

Thanks to you, I am getting ready to start His Bloody Project. I just snagged it on audio.

How was that Bulls game? I know they lost.

Thought you might like this

>123 Crazymamie: Yay! x 2, Mamie! I think you'll be impressed.

>124 LovingLit: Ha! Hello, Megan. Yes, we call them sweaters. When a security guy at the National Portrait Gallery in London told me I needed to pull the jumper out of my backpack so he could see inside, I had to think a bit about what jumper had jumped into my backpack. Neither word makes much sense. If you sweat a lot, you're a sweater. If you jump, you're a jumper. But "warm thing you put on your upper body" is kind of awkward to say.

"Cardigan" is a good word, but here in the States you'd look like Mr. Rogers.

>125 benitastrnad: Woo, in the 80s F (27 C) is way too warm for this time of year, Benita. Locally, it's hard to know whether it's simply weather cycles or an effect of global warming, although overall we're heating up. We're going up to 70 F (21 C) here, and it's gorgeous out. Poor Madame MBH is in a workshop all day, and said, "why couldn't it snow?"

Sorry to hear about that gas spill into the Cahaba River. That's awful. I hope it does get effectively addressed.

I agree on the need to do infrastructure work. For some reason, we have a ton of it going on here in Chicago - bridges, street repair, water lines, and so on. I know don't whether it's a holdover from the federal stimulus money or what, but it's all over the place. It can make it hard to get through all the construction from one place to another, but I'm glad they're doing it.

The Cubs celebration yesterday was huge. Reports were saying 5 million, and I say give me a break - big exaggeration. But it was huge, and happy.

>126 msf59: Oh yeah, Dead Boys is perfect for you, Mark. You're going to eat it up.

His Bloody Project is one you'll enjoy, too. I'm still thinking about it.

The Bulls game was disappointing. Wade was great, Butler was very good, and the rest of them had holes on defense and weren't very good on offense. Since they've been running teams off the court before this, I'm not quite sure what the deal was. Guess we'll be finding out how good a coach Hoiberg is, as they have lots of talent now.

It was fun to see Joakim and D-Rose back in the house, but I wish the Bulls had played better.

>127 charl08: Ha! Thanks for thinking of that, Charlotte. Not only do I like it, I have it! Here it is, up on our bookshelf. :-)

Ooo, bookshelf porn, I love it....

I am loving His Bloody Project. Bloody shocking, right?

>132 Caroline_McElwee: Ha! :-)

>133 msf59: You're bloody right about that, mate!

Good morning, Joe!

>130 jnwelch: My oh my that is a big celebration. We had one similar in 2014 when the Seahawks won the Super Bowl. but, I don't think it was as big as this one.

>131 jnwelch: Love the bookshelf line up! Doctor Strange definitely a colorful stand out. Nice to see Jean-Luc Picard in residence. :-)

Happy New Thread, Joe, well, newish thread! I had moment to lurk earlier and I did thumb your fantastic review of Dead Boys earlier today. I have yet to fire up my kindle and the library holds seem to coming in thick and fast, but I'd love to read Dead Boys.

Thanks for sharing the Eliot analysis and the Cubs celebratory pictures, Joe.

This last week was a great week with 108 years of jinx cured (unless you are from Cleveland of course and left cursing your bad luck); I do fear though that the next week will have bad consequences for all of us come what may.

Thursday you get to choose between a preening bigot and a corrupt insider. The latter in Mrs Clinton must win of course as the alternative puts your great country as a laughing stock but it will, I fear, mark the return of Nixonian politics. She is a liberal spouting from a business sponsored motorcade and her so-called foundation impugns everything she says she stands for. With her it is about gaining office not making a difference. Her foreign policy, what there is of it, is a disaster and to try to enforce no fly zones in Syria will set the US on a collision course with Russia that hardly bears thinking about.

Just my opinion and I know that others like her and certainly the alternative appears unthinkable but shucks couldn't you guys have found someone better to try and fill a good man's shoes?

Oh and sorry buddy - have a great weekend!

Wow, that was quite the celebration eh! Glad it was a happy one! Did you partake in it at all?

Morning, Joe! Love your bookshelf porn!

I took some time yesterday and ordered some of my Christmas presents. I ordered a boxed set of 4 of the Black Stallion books. A boxed set of 10 Little Golden Books of Thomas the Tank Engine and a Thomas toy. Then I ordered a boxed set of three of the Ivy and Bean books. Last I ordered a stuffed Peter Rabbit to go with the boxed set of 3 Peter Rabbit books I have ready to go as a baby gift in January. I think my cousins will be well stocked for the future.

#137
I am puzzled by the references to the Clinton foundation. How is that different from what any former President of the U.S. has done? The only difference between the Clinton Foundation and the Carter Foundation that I can see is that Roselyn Carter did not run for office after James Carter left office. From my side of the fence, I see this as another attack on a woman because she dares to aspire to office as herself. If she had hung up her towel like Roselyn or Jacquelyn did nobody would say a word about the Clinton Foundation. Makes me wonder what the Obama's will do when Michelle decides to run for office?

Joe, I learned about Clifford Simak from Dave (AHS-Wolfy) and his book bullet about Way Station hit a couple of us, so there are quite a few of us LTers who are pushing and reading his books! I've added City, All Flesh Is Grass and A Choice of Gods to my wishlist.

>142 benitastrnad: I know your convinced by Hillary, Benita; I'm not. The differences between the Clinton foundation and others is not merely the subsequent actions of its founders. I wouldn't want my President to have been influenced by monies from vested interests and especially foreign governments who are the biggest donors to the Clinton Foundation. That involvement snowballed when she announced to run presumably in an attempt to curry favour. I don't have skin in the game as I am not American and, of course she is better than the alternative but I think the Democrats have made a big mistake in picking her as candidate.

With apologies to Joe for the hijack....

>142 benitastrnad: and >144 PaulCranswick: - I don't see it as an attack on her because she's a woman, but it's a groundless claim that keeps getting repeated with no evidence to back it up. From my favorite (snarky, of course) refutation of claims about Clinton and her many evils:

Angry Trump Fan Claim #1: The Clinton Foundation is a sham, designed to enrich the Clintons.

The idea that the Clinton Foundation is an evil enterprise is 100% true if you are Malaria. Then you are correct, it is out to get you. Let’s start with the lie that only 6% of the Clinton Foundation’s budget goes to actual charities. Only 6% goes to other charities, while the Foundation does most of its own work. They have done great work across the world with health care, reforestation, education, and hope to one day MURDER JAMES BOND. Crap, I blew at the end, didn’t I?

Here is an article from FactCheck.org on that subject. You can also check CharityWatch, GuideStar, and Charity Navigator which all give the Clinton Foundation top ratings.

There is another myth that the Clintons have pocketed eleventy billion dollars from the Foundation because they spend all their own money on claw machines in arcades even though they’ve never once gotten a prize, but several times they really thought the claw had the stuffed bear in its grasp.

Hillary, Bill, and Chelsea make $0 from the Clinton Foundation. Here is Politifact’s analysis.

Then there are the charges of conflicts of interest. You’re probably yelling about uranium right now, so we should talk about uranium. The story is that Hillary Clinton took $145 million for the Foundation and in return allowed Russia to buy a company which has control over a significant amount of uranium. This story is bunk. One might say this story came straight out of uranus (DAD JOKE!).

You can read Politifact’s long breakdown, but the short version is a) 9 government agencies signed off on the deal and b) there’s no evidence that Clinton intervened at all in the deal.

There are also allegations that the Clintons allowed donors special access to Clinton when she was Secretary of State, but the smoking guns here are basically that she met with a Nobel Prize winning economist and Elie Weisel. (Washington Post).

Hillary Clinton has admitted they could have done a better job of keeping the Foundation better separated from her work. I personally have never run a charity that provide access to AIDS medications to 11.5 million people or lowered the cost of Malaria medication by 80-90% in several countries, but apparently it’s tricky. So, yes, we can criticize Hillary and Bill for not being diligent enough in eliminating any possible hint of impropriety while working to combat heroin addiction and providing healthier food to students in the United States.

But no, they did not pocket money or sell uranium to Lex Luthor.

Did you know Donald Trump has a foundation? He has illegally used the money from it to settle legal disputes, bribe Florida’s attorney general, purchase a painting of himself, and buy a helmet signed by Tim Tebow. He has not contributed any of his own money since 2008.

(http://alexanderckane.tumblr.com/post/151082367051/oh-hello-there-angry-trump-fan-in-the-comments)

>144 PaulCranswick: Of course, having donors to a charitable fund think they may have more access to the president is not the same has having actual outstanding debts to foreign countries, which is the case with Trump. I think Secretary Clinton has learned too well the defensive moves she needed to combat her persistent attackers, and the resulting secrecy does not do her any good. Note also that the Clinton Fund will close if Hillary is elected, to avoid any perception of conflict of interest going forward. Donald will still owe the Russians lots of money, and seems to think that if his kids run his businesses, that qualifies as a blind trust.

The way the president is elected in our non-parliamentary democracy means that prejudices, acknowledged or subconscious, against women seeking power create problems that no man would face. The same moves by a woman are criticized much differently than if they had been those of a man.

In a parliamentary democracy, the party members who work with a woman M.P. have an opportunity to get past the general antipathy to women in power that the public might still have - or in the case of a powerhouse like Thatcher, may be unable to combat such a forceful personality. That said, it has been noted that even in countries that have had a female head of state (Britain and India for instance), there was only one. Until now, no woman has followed Thatcher to 10 Downing Street, and the unusual case of Brexit may have made the current position too hot for the most likely male leaders to want. After Indira Gandhi, all Indian heads of state have been men. We'll have to see what happens to Germany after Angela Merkel is no longer P.M. There are some cases of female heads of state in South America, and we'll have to keep an eye on them too. It's certainly not a level playing field.

eta: I see Katie slipped in while I was composing. I approve her message.

>145 katiekrug: & >146 ffortsa: A few points from your well argued posts:

1 I never said or implied the Clinton's pocketed money from the Foundation. I was talking about the possibility of conflicts of interest, which remain and the same FactCheck.Org being relied upon would seem to agree with me http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/sep/01/fact-checking-clinto...
That the same Foundation has done good work would appear self-evident.

2 I despise Donald Trump way beyond my mistrust of Hillary. I am not spinning pro-Trump rhetoric and but as someone of the left all my life is it so wrong not to be convinced by HRC?

3 The fact that she is a woman is certainly no disadvantage as far as I can see it. I certainly don't view gender as a bar to high office. Mrs. Thatcher was a desperately poor Prime Minister in my opinion but then again I am from the North of England which her anti-industrial policies devastated. Theresa May was the outstanding leadership candidate when Cameron stepped down and I don't recall too much debate on the ascension of another lady to the highest office. I don't think Hillary is particularly liberal in your American sense of the word. I think that she is in hock to big business and vested interests and I think she is way too hawkish in foreign policy. Do I want her to beat Donald Trump? Hell, yes I do but I would have been happier with Elizabeth Warren.

Paul, I know you're not a Trump apologist. And I agree the line between the foundation and the State Department should have been more sharply delineated (maybe they should have built a wall..... heh), but while appearances and perception are important, until someone can show me a clear case of her using her influence to change policy or move the State Department in a specific direction because of a donor, all it is is fodder for the anti-Clinton camp. And it's fine to not like her, of course. I may just be projecting my frustration, because people here with similar views as yours are using these sorts of allegations as an excuse to not vote or to vote for a 3rd party, both of which are stupid and short-sighted options, as far as I'm concerned.

>148 katiekrug: I think it was inappropriate to play a role in the foundation whilst Secretary of State and I am not saying that she used the roles to either further her own personal ends or to advance the cause of her backers, but it is Hillary providing the fodder not people like myself who think it was inappropriate.
I agree wholeheartedly that a third party vote is clearly, in your American context, a wasted one and, were I in the USA, I would swallow that smidgen of bile and vote for HRC as the sure fire way of keeping the Donald out.
I am a little scared of what Hillary's foreign policy will look like, but the consequences of the Donald antagonising China and Mexico and heaven knows who else leaves me safe in the knowledge that the American people cannot be so collectively misguided as to vote him in. I don't personally think he is being bankrolled by or is in hock to the Russians but that doesn't mean that they don't see benefit for them in the vacuum of common-sense that would be created by his election to high office.

Sorry Joe to have started this debate over at your friendly abode, although I do think that the views expressed were very well articulated and, erm, polite. Katie and Judy clearly have more local knowledge on the subject matter than I and my perspective is coloured both by my concerns over HRC foreign policy and over the divorcing of personal interest (or the appearance of it) and public policy. In the UK, it would be difficult post-Blair to conceive of a socialist politician being quite so cosy with big business concerns as is HRC. I know that you are a HRC supporter and I would vote for her too on Tuesday but I think it is fair to question some of the less stellar parts associated with her candidacy whilst remaining confident that she will keep out a much worse eventuality come polling day.

Good evening, Joe. Boy, I came over here and found myself immediately caught up in the intelligent and lively conversation among Katie, Judy, and Paul. It's always interesting here at the cafe!

There may not have been five million people at the Cubs' celebration but there are at least that many happy fans scattered about the country. It was a great series with exactly the right outcome as far as I'm concerned. I hope I'm as happy this Wednesday....

If I had a Kindle, I would immediately purchase Dead Boys. As it is, I will hope that it gains enough traction to warrant publication in other formats. That, or one of these days I'll actually buy the Kindle that I keep eyeing. :-)

Have a great week, Joe!

hey, Joe. happy Monday. while you were away, things went just slightly political.

i'm voting for HRC and that's nice b/c it also allows me to vote against Trump. as a lesbian woman of a certain age (72 and nearly 73), i was trying to work in the years when people like HRC, Sondra Day O'Connor and The notorious RBG were working for the rights of women in a variety of ways and their efforts were met by constant stonewalling. i owe all of them a debt of gratitude and Clinton's effect has been felt by women worldwide.

Clinton is all the things people don't like in a woman. she's bright, assertive, competent, secretive, knowledgeable, concerned about women's rights and tough as nails. she travels the world standing up to men and standing up for women. as Kristoff said in the NYT a few days ago:

I’ve known Clinton a bit for many years, and I have to say: The public perception of her seems to me a gross and inaccurate caricature. I don’t understand the venom, the “lock her up” chants, the assumption that she is a Lady Macbeth; it’s an echo of the animus a lifetime ago some felt for Eleanor Roosevelt.

(When Roosevelt spoke up for Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor, a letter in The Los Angeles Times thundered: “When she starts bemoaning the plight of the treacherous snakes we call Japanese (with apologies to all snakes), she has reached the point where she should be forced to retire from public life.” Strong women sometimes drive people nuts.) ayup.

again, my viewpoint is part and parcel of my age and my experiences as a woman and a professional in the 70s-90s. people who benefited from the changes brought about by strong women during those years have only known the benefits and not the costs and don't recognize how far we've come. if you want to know how far we have to go, look at the vilification of Clinton for things that, while human and fallible, aren't even in the same ballpark with things ignored when done by men. imagine if a woman had done what Comey did and look at the reaction to Elizabeth Warren every time she goes off like a brilliant, scary rocket.

there are plenty of things i don't like about Clinton politically but then there have been plenty of things i haven't liked about President Obama's political decisions. i stay mad about him about half of the time. and i wish he could run for another 4 years.

(smelling my arm to see if i can detect the odor of sulfur)

>151 mirrordrum: - You have made some really interesting points and have a great perspective. Yesterday, I saw the brand new film by Michael Moore, called *Michael Moore in Trumpland* and I have to say, he did a great job of expanding on all the things you've mentioned. I wrote about it a bit more in Mark's and Ilana's threads. It's a real shame that more (Trump) people won't see it before tomorrow's vote (and frankly, they're the ones who most need to hear his message, and won't) but I can't recommend it strongly enough. What I liked about the doc was that he uses his usual humour, direct, in your face yet subtle, to poke fun at a lot of what Trump says and does, yet he infuses the monologue with enough truths, both about Trump and especially about Hillary, in such a way that it actually appeals to the humanity and even the intelligence of the audience. That is a real talent, to be able to do that. It may be available online or on amazon, I've heard. I really recommend looking for it.

Good morning! I enjoyed the political discussion very much, and kudos to everyone for keeping it polite and on the high road. As frequent patrons know, I'm voting for HRC and horrified by Trump. Comparisons of Trump to Hitler and McCarthy are apt, IMO. Like Ellie, I think a lot of the crazy unfactual vitriol against Hillary derives from her being a strong, intelligent woman. Many Trump-ites are terrified that minorities are becoming the collective majority here, that millenials are blue, and that women are speaking up and demanding change. We all know what "Make America Great Again" really means, as Obama has already made us great again for progressives, after the disastrous policies of George W. B. Fingers crossed for Tuesday.

>153 jnwelch: - One of my favourite authors (and Canadian/American!), Malcolm Gladwell, appeared on our national news program, The National, the other evening. Here is his interview and he said basically the same thing as you have, about the vitriol against Hillary (as did Michael Moore in that new film):

http://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/malcolm-gladwell-on-the-u-s-elections-1.38380...

>135 brodiew2: Yeah, Chicago is a big city, Brodie. Theo Epstein said the same thing in comparing this one to the celebration when the Red Sox finally won - there are so many more people here.

Ha! I thought you'd appreciate that Funko Pop lineup on the bookshelf, Brodie. Jean Luc Picard is one of Madame MBH's favorite characters, and Patrick Stewart is one of her favorite actors.

>136 vancouverdeb: Thanks, Deb. I'm glad you liked the Dead Boys review, and thank you for the thumb! I can recommend the book unreservedly. She's a force, that young lady.

>137 PaulCranswick: You're welcome re the T.S. Eliotstuff and Cubbie pics, Paul. The brilliance of what he pulled together and made compelling in The Waste Land is mind-boggling. I'm not an Ezra Pound fan (his politics) (except "Wet Black Bough"), but his editing ("il miglior fabro") was critical in getting some distracting, sub-par material out of The Wasteland, as you can see in The Waste Land: A Facsimile and Transcript of the Original Drafts, https://smile.amazon.com/Waste-Land-Facsimile-Transcript-Annotations/dp/01519476...

I'm not sure whether anyone here cares whether we're a laughing stock elsewhere because of this election; we're at too serious a crossroads in the always ongoing American Experiment. I don't think of Hillary as a corrupt insider, but there sure are an awful lot of people working overtime to make you think she is. She's a very smart woman whom the right has been after for more than 20 years, with a fortune spent on the useless Benghazi "investigation" and other "investigations". I'd like to see Trump or any other politician out there stand up to what she's had to endure.

>138 PaulCranswick: Thanks! It was a great weekend, mate, and I hope yours was, too. A high school play Saturday night, called "The Election", successfully spoofed a lot of the issues being talked about here, plus our friends' daughter was a knockout in the lead, and yesterday we saw a pretty good play adaptation of Wodehouse's Psmith, Journalist at a local theater. When not doing those, we were enjoying the gorgeous weather here. The universe seems to be smiling on us right now.

>139 ChelleBearss: It was a happy Cubs celebration indeed, Chelle. I participated on our street right after the Game 7 win, and we had a pizza party in a big conference room for everyone to watch the celebration in >130 jnwelch: on two big screen TVs.

>140 Crazymamie: Thanks, Mamie! Those are our new bookshelves again. We're very happy with them.

>141 benitastrnad: Good for you, Benita. Those sound like great gifts for your cousins. The Peter Rabbit books are classics, and so many young 'uns love Thomas the Tank Engine. I don't know Ivy and Bean, and I still need to read The Black Stallion.

>142 benitastrnad: I agree - the attacks on the admirable Clinton Foundation seem way off-target to me. As Katie says, they should've been more careful about the appearance of influence. With all the scrutiny she receives, some smoke is going to be found, but as usual there's no fire. Most ludicrous is the accusation that the highly rated Foundation only gives 6% to other charities. 6% sounds terrible, right? Except what isn't said is that the rest goes toward its own charitable efforts, at one of the highest percentages around! Not many charities give to other charities at all; that the CF does is a plus, not a minus.

>143 DeltaQueen50: Oh, Dave (AHS-Wolfy) is a blast, Judy. I wish he'd come by here more often. I've followed others of his recommendations; I'm glad to be reminded that he liked Way Station, too. How great that we all are spreading the word about Mr. Simak! I really was worrying that his books were getting lost in the mists of time. A lot of the old sci-fi can be hard to read now (sexism, racism, etc.), but his holds up well.

>144 PaulCranswick: Thanks, Paul. Interesting to hear views from someone outside the political maelstrom here. I don't share your concern about the Clinton Foundation. It's gone after the election, among other things.

>145 katiekrug: No problem, Katie. I thought that Politifact article was particularly good at debunking the right wing accusations out there. One thing I worry about after this election is whether we'll ever return to facts, the truth, actually being important in an election. Trump is a fraud and a con artist, one of the best this country has ever seen (and we've seen some good ones), and on an unprecedented scale. And way too many people have bought his snake oil. Can we recover our collective wits after this?

>146 ffortsa: Agreed, Judy. I wish Hillary had chosen other tactics at times, but I also can't imagine having to fend off relentless attacks over a period of decades. It's not a level playing field, but women are wielding power like never before, and we need to keep moving toward we're all created equal. As our niece said the other day, the people fighting against the progress we've made on rights here are on the wrong side of history.

>147 PaulCranswick: I'm an Elizabeth Warren fan, too, Paul. I'd like to see her move up in leadership, and would welcome her running for President some day. I'd also like to see Michelle Obama to run for Senate and, eventually, President.

>148 katiekrug: I agree with you from beginning to end, Katie.

>149 PaulCranswick: Yup, well-articulated and polite, Paul. Cafes traditionally are good places for political discussions, so I'm happy to see it happening here. On foreign policy, she's going to be the most knowledgeable president we've ever had. Are we all going to agree with her decisions? No way. But she's smart and experienced, and I believe she has the country's best interests at heart.

That position is a magnet for criticism. Obama has historically high approval ratings, but that leaves a large percentage of our learned (sarcasm) populace thinking he's still the devil incarnate, and trying to figure out how to criticize his hugely successful record. Trump made the political mistake of saying that Hillary just wants to continue Obama's policies. A large portion of voters would be delighted if she did.

>150 EBT1002: Hi, Ellen. Like you, I've really been enjoying the political discussion.

Ha! Good point! I've no doubt there are more than 5 million Cubs fans around the country, and many more who were pulling for them to end more than a century of futility. I've just seen this so many times, with the big estimates. A crowd gathers, and the estimates go higher and higher. The city proper has a population of approximately 3 million. The crowd was huge, but didn't even approach that number, IMO. (The Chicagoland area, with the burbs, holds about 10 million people, and it's true that a lot of burb-ers poured into the city). I'd enjoy an accurate number more than wishful thinking. Hence, my middle name, "Grinch".

>151 mirrordrum: Ha! Yes, I remember Obama sniffing his arm for sulfur, Ellie, after some of the ludicrous vitriol from the right.

I agree with your views. A lot of the amorphous "I don't like her" and "I don't trust her" comments, IMO, stem from her being a strong woman with a "man's" ambition. We've seen the poll maps where a majority of men would vote him in, and a majority of women would vote her in. I know a woman (from childhood) who is a Trump supporter, and that group is beyond my ken. I just hope the numbers come out right tomorrow.

I'd vote for a third Obama term in a blink, because, as you know, I hold him in high esteem. He's the best president we've had in my lifetime, as far as I'm concerned.

>152 jessibud2: Hi, Shelley. That sounds like quite a worthwhile Michael Moore documentary. I haven't followed his career, but I know a lot of folks swear by his work.

>154 jessibud2: Oh good, Shelley, thanks. Gladwell I do follow and of course respect. Thanks for the link.

I am late to the debate having spent the weekend enjoying warm temperatures and a few fleeting days on the lake. >137 PaulCranswick: I am curious about your concern regarding a Syrian no fly zone Paul.

If I have a criticism of Obama it has been some of his foreign policy decisions. I supported HRC back in 2008 because I thought she would be more muscular on foreign policy and the no fly zone strikes me as the sort of thing that I would support so I was curious as to why you thought this was such a bad idea.

To expand, yes I think it will heighten conflict with Russia. At this stage I think that is necessary. Russia invaded its neighbor and seized territory, is actively destabilizing the Baltic states, interfered with the U.S. election, and has propped up a dictator though the use of air strikes against principally civilian targets. While I am in no way advocating for a shooting war with Russia, I think that a level of coordinated confrontation is necessary. I think that failing to do will only encourage what I will characterize as bad behavior on the part of Russia.

>154 jessibud2: That Malcolm Gladwell interview was terrific, Shelley. Including his optimism at the end. Thanks, again. I hope others watch it.

>165 Oberon: Hi, Erik. What weather we've been having! It was gorgeous in Chicago, too.

I'll let Paul answer on the no fly zone in Syria. It's been a struggle with Russia throughout our lifetimes and I expect that'll continue. How the worldly Gorbachev sneaked in there is beyond me, but Putin is a KGB thug bent on influencing the region, and trying to resurrect Russia's super power status. Trump's love for him is no coincidence.

>165 Oberon: - Well said, Erik. Probably my single biggest disappointment with Obama was his failure to back up his rhetoric regarding chemical weapons in Syria.

>166 jnwelch: Totally agree on the weather - was just commenting on my thread that it has been setting back my reading. With weather this good so late in the year we northerners can't help but go out and suck up as much sun as possible. And yes, I think Russia will remain a thorn in our side for the foreseeable future. Someone like Putin will keep pushing until a stand is taken.

>167 katiekrug: Katie, I totally agree on the chemical weapons. I am still dismayed that a series of targeted strikes aimed at degrading the Syrian military weren't launched. I understand that it would have been more symbolic than anything else but I think that symbolism is important in foreign affairs. Bad actors need to believe that the U.S. can and will act in circumstances like the use of chemical weapons against civilians.

Syria is a horrible mess and I think that Obama has been correct in recognizing that there are few "good" options for the U.S. for involvement but I think it has been a mistake to simply throw up our hands and sit on the sidelines.

>168 Oberon: The great weather had the advantage of inspiring Madame MBH to read 4 more chapters to me of On the Shores of Silver Lake out on our porch. So we fended off the weather's distractive effect and still read, for a while, anyway.

Putin, Schmutin. Where do they come up with these guys? Oh yeah, the KGB.

I know a lot of people agree with you about Syria, Erik, and I'm in no position to disagree. I personally appreciate Obama's restraint in foreign wars, but I know it frustrates many.

Morning, Joe!

>131 jnwelch: Is that Xena and Katniss next to Picard?

Morning Joe! Things are heating up at the old Cafe! I love it. Well-mannered and intelligent, political discourse is a healthy thing. That said. I can't wait for Wednesday.

Hope you had a good weekend, my friend. I know I did. I think you would like my last poetry collection, Milk and Honey. I posted a couple excerpts over on the AAC thread. Have you read John Clare? I am getting ready to start a collection, I recently purchased by him. Part of the Faber Nature Poets series. I don't seem to do as well, with the old-schoolers, but I hope this one speaks to me.

I did order a copy of the Rilke. Did you start it?

>170 Crazymamie: Morning, Mamie! BTW, Madame MBH LOVED The Poet's Dog.

>171 Morphidae: Good eye, Morphy. Katniss and Wonderwoman. Some of the Orphan Black clones played by Tatiana Maslany, too.

>172 msf59: Morning, Mark!

Ha! Yeah, I think we're all looking forward to Wednesday. What a bizarre election season. I have enjoyed the well-mannered and intelligent political discourse here.

Yes, great weekend. B-ball, two plays, and lots of good weather.

You know, I've read some of Milk and Honey. I admire her, but (I hesitate to even say this), the writing is a bit plain for me. It's got emotional impact, but not a lot of the word wizardry I enjoy.

I only know John Clare through LT. I know he has his fans.

I was a lazy reader this weekend (that weather lulled me), and focused on the Heyer mainly (which I thoroughly enjoyed, as usual). So only the first couple of Rilke poems, both good. Bad Joe.

>152 jessibud2: I too saw 'Michael Moore in Trumpland' and thought it very good.

I'm not sure whether I will have my eyes open tomorrow or not. I sure hope Hillary wins though. Unlike in the UK, who the US President is affects the world, not just a nation.

Does Hillary have skeletons on her closet? I'm inclined to think fewer than is projected onto her, too many people have been trying too hard, for too long without coming up with solid proof for there to be anything serious. Has she made mistakes along the way? If she hasn't, better pop the back and take the battery out, as she wouldn't be human. A seat at the highest table is not going to irradicate anyone's fallibility, but you just hope that with good guidance, and the right qualities, that person will be better prepared to make the best judgement calls possible.

Ooh, Joe, that you sitting quietly in the corner, good to see you my friend. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow.

>174 jnwelch: I could see rupi kaur's style been off-putting, for some but I liked the dark, edginess of it, (of course, I did) and found much of the prose simple but beautiful.

I will update you on the John Clare...

I managed to snag a copy of Trumpland, so I will try to watch it soon and fingers crossed that we don't have a Trumpland, come Wednesday morning. Shudders...

>175 Caroline_McElwee: Hi, Caroline. Thanks for the good thoughts, my friend. Good luck to us all tomorrow!

>176 msf59: It's probably my blindness re Rupi Kaur, Mark, but what I read didn't strike me as edgy, just at times addressing often ignored and taboo subjects (maybe that in itself is edgy for many, but not me). The simplicity made it hard for me to see the beauty - and I'm a Patricia MacLachlan fan, so go figure. But lots of folks are buying Milk and Honey, so it's must be resonating with them, and I'm glad it did with you.

Afternoon, Joe!
I'm enjoying the political discussion here and loving what a civil lot we are. I love this place.
I'm happily not participating, though, as I've voted already and am now just patiently waiting for the whole business to be over.

Happy Monday, Joe!

>178 scaifea: I think the whole world is just waiting for this whole business to be over :-p

Good afternoon, Joe. I hope all is well with you.

I think I will be adding a reread of Rendezvous with Rama. It remains in the top 10 of my all time favorites. I have never reread it and that brings up apprehension because now I wonder if my memory of it will live up to another look. On the other hand, I remember loving it for a reason, right? :-P

>178 scaifea: Afternoon, Amber!

I love this place. Yes! Me, too.

I also already voted. Patiently probably isn't the word for my waiting. Anxiously is a better fit. :-)

>179 ChelleBearss: Happy Mmmphmumble Day, Chelle! (I have that Voldemort problem with saying the actual name).

Yes, we're all looking forward to this election being over. We all set our clocks back an hour over the weekend. One of the many Facebook jokes about the election was, "I've had enough. I'm setting my clock forward to Wednesday."

>180 brodiew2: Good afternoon, Brodie. All is well, my friend.

I really liked Rendezvous with Rama, too. I was disappointed in the follow-ups, but now I just pretend they don't exist. That's the perennial question with these favorites of our youth - will they stand the test of time? Some yes, some no. I think Childhood's End stands up well, so maybe this one of his also will.

>166 jnwelch: - Glad you liked the interview, Joe. I have been a huge Gladwell fan from the get-go, from his first book. His podcasts are pretty cool, too. I thought he articulated very well, in this interview. I hope his optimism isn't misplaced. I think I am more of a pessimist but I would love to be wrong, on this....

Do try to catch the Moore film, if you can

>182 jessibud2: Yeah, our factoid son got us started on Malcolm Gladwell, Shelley. I'm an optimist, like Gladwell. But I worry that Trump and his cadre won't go away after the election, and that the divisive effect will continue. I also agree with Gladwell that the Republicans will continue to press to investigate Hillary while she's in office. Because, of course, our taxpayer money couldn't possibly be put to better use, right?

Time, time, time - until I figure out how to freeze it, getting to everything is hard. But I'll keep the Moore film on my radar.

>181 jnwelch: - My favorite FB meme was last week: "On Sunday, don't forget to set the clock back 1 hour. And on Tuesday don't forget to NOT set the country back 50 years."

>178 scaifea: and >181 jnwelch: - I am voting in person on Tuesday and secretly hoping someone tries to harass me :) I was going to wear a pantsuit, but the only one I own is in storage with most of my clothes and other belongings. Bad planning on my part....

>184 katiekrug: Ha! Yes, I love that one: don't forget to not set us back 50 years.

Let us know how it goes with voting tomorrow. Did you see that flash mob group of pantsuit dancers on FB? I couldn't get the video to work, but I love the idea.

>184 katiekrug: - Oh, I LOVE that meme quote!! Thanks for that

>186 jessibud2: :-) Ditto

>178 scaifea: You and me both, scaifea. We are civil lot, but I, too, have decided to stay out of the discussion.

>180 brodiew2: I have a feeling Rama Will stand up as well. You're the second person to disavow the sequels. I can proudly say I enjoyed them at the time, but would never take the time to reread them.

Way back at @128, may I just explain that yes, we do call " jumpers" sweaters. However, to be precise, sweaters can be divided into at least two types. There the front opening cardigan, usually with buttons and not a zipper, and also pull - overs - you know, the type of sweater without buttons that you pull over your head and musses up your hair?

>165 Oberon: I am not advocating that the USA pander to the Russians but I don't see how a "coordinated confrontation" with them will make the world a safer place. The morass of the Middle East and now specifically Syria is a problem more of our making than the Russians because Bush and Blair got themselves involved in regime change in Iraq and Libya. It doesn't work. it destabilises and it has been a disaster of epic proportions. Hussain, Gaddafi and Assad are a trio of tyrants but the vacuum created makes space for something much worse and more threatening to us all - ISIS (or DAESH), Al Qaeda et al. A no-fly zone is playing with fire and we have been burned enough already. We had no business arming the rebels and escalating a conflict there that is now completely out of control and whose consequences are being borne both by the poor people of the region and on the countries they are throwing themselves desperately upon. Assad has power there and is not going to give it up. I think we are being a little hypocritical about the Russians in that the collateral damage we inflicted in Iraq was of similar proportions and was undertaken for the spurious reason that Iraq had WMD which has been entirely disproven by events.

It wasn't our fight but now we are all drawn into it. Thanks Dubya. Obama has done his best to steer a middle course and rebuild America economically from the overspending of the Bush years. Bill Clinton was not a hawk and he left you with a huge budget surplus that Bush squandered.

The other danger is that we risk pushing China and Russia together in an alliance that would overpower the west. We have to hurt their pockets. Unfettered trade with China is a terrible mistake as there can be no free and fair trade with a country that laughs in the face of welfare and Intellectual Property. Our trading with them, like theirs with us should be based on self-interest. China is a bigger threat than that blustering bear Russia.

Hi, Joe.

#153 jnwelch
The word demigod comes to mind when I think of Trump. So much of what he says seems to come straight out of 1932-36 in Europe. It is scary to me.

#151 mirrodrum
Wise words from a wise woman. Thank you. You articulated so much of what I think about Hilary and I agree that perhaps my view of her has to do with my age (60ish) and the fact that I still see some of the same actions in play regarding women in the workplace today that I saw in 1975. Somehow I had hoped that it would get better and it hasn't. Even the struggle for equal pay, which is so basic, hasn't worked out the way I thought it would by this time.

#147 paul cranswick
I had noted that no woman followed Thatcher until a few months ago. And that no woman followed Indira Gandhi. However, the fact that there are women in positions of political power all over Europe is a sign that women are now part of the group. Many of these women are now secretaries in their parties and the ratio of women seated in the governments is more equal than it is here in the U. S. I am reminded how few women their really are in our congressional houses and for a country that talks so much about equality before the law, it makes me wonder. I do agree that the true test of arriving is having another woman, or another black, follow the trailblazer. That will be the indication that women and minorities have infiltrated the highest echelons of power just as men have. Having the first trailblazer is no indication that person is the norm and not an anomaly.

#190 paul cranswick

I agree with most of what you said. However, Assad does not have power. He and his family are not a majority in Syria. They never were. They were warlords and still are. He would not have power had the Russians not come in and bailed him out. Most likely, without the Russians, he would be gone and ISIS would be the ones in power. Both are bad options, but having the Russians interfere to the degree that they have done is unacceptable.

I have spent some time thinking about what the Russians gain by interfering, and they gain by making the West look bad. Remember Egypt under Nasar?

>191 benitastrnad: I think the "true test of arriving" is when the fact that the leader is Black or gay or a woman or old or young or disabled or, or ,or does not occasion any comment either way. We are a long way from that as a society whether this is in North America, Europe or elsewhere. Let us not kid ourselves we have come very far but they are incremental steps aren't they Benita? I was extremely worried for Angela Eagle for example when she stepped forward to challenge Jeremy Corbyn as she is not only a woman but she is in a committed relationship with another woman. She withdrew quickly from the campaign and I think she would have made an excellent leader of my party but I wonder had she seen it through what the gutter press would have thrown at the extremely able lady.

>192 benitastrnad: Well in fairness it was the west that armed the rebels against him, Benita, not learning our lessons at all. There is genuine dissension against his regime and not all of them are "religious" fanatics but setting them at war with each other was never going to end well. What is happening in Syria is a direct consequence of what has happened elsewhere. We tried to topple Assad knowing all along that he was Russia's ally. Another Cold War with Russia is not the answer to the world's problems at the moment IMO and just distracts from the issue of trying to find a lasting solution to the mess in the Middle East which has brought so much misery to so many. Demonising of Russia and with Putin and his ridiculous posturing it is an easy step, allows us to overlook and deflect our own responsibility for the mess and our inability to solve it.

I am pro American and I am pro Israel but we have to face up to the truth that Western policy towards the Middle East has utterly failed. We have to remove the causes of dissatisfaction amongst the populace there which is the breeding ground of radical fundamentalism. We also have to take a hard look at the Saudi's and how that regime has allowed wahabism to indoctrinate the region. They hate us. They hate our way of life. They want to remove us and set up a caliphate. One in which "non-believers" are put to death, women are enslaved, tolerance is squashed. They will attack Israel at the first "provocation". I am not suggesting more regime change but we have to remove these impediments to world peace more urgently than we need to square up to Putin or that nutter in North Korea.

I agree with you about the Saudi's and now worry about what is happening in Turkey. Turkey was one light in the darkness.

>195 benitastrnad: You are right to point to Turkey, Benita, as that place is in a mess right now too.

>190 PaulCranswick: I would say that Syria (and Iraq and much of the Middle East) is a problem of England and France's making following the First World War. America has simply perpetuated the problem by choosing real politics over our values. Much of that can be blamed on the Cold War.

Presently many of the fake nation states assembled following WWI are fracturing. From my perspective the US can not and should not try to piece them back together. However the US should attempt to manage the disintegration. That means working to support those groups or factions that are the least bad while working to limit the harm to non-combatants.

Civil wars like Syria will end in one of two ways - one side will win or there will be a negotiated settlement. If the wrong side (the Assad regime) will win militarily then I believe that the application of credible military force by the US can push him to the bargaining table. By many accounts Assad was prepared to make such a bargain prior to Russian intervention.

Rory Stewart wrote an excellent book called Can Intervention Work? in which he likens international interventions to mountain rescues. Some times you have to decide not to mount a rescue, some times you try but do so under parameters that compel you to reverse course if the situation changes.

In Syria, a Bosnia style intervention/peace effort seems to be the best course of action. Putting that together requires building international support to push Russia into walking back support for Assad. That will certainly require a Russian spot at the bargaining table and likely an out for Assad that doesn't immediately end in a criminal tribunal. Not an ideal outcome but a managed outcome that is vastly preferable to continued war.

>194 PaulCranswick: I would also disagree that the West armed the rebels. The arming happened after Assad used violence to quash protest. The armed rebellion that responded to that was largely armed by regional actors. The western insertion of weapons happened later and in response to the rise of better armed and experienced jihadi groups. Moreover that arming of rebels has largely been viewed as ineffectual as ISIS and similar groups have been far more successful against Assad.

>197 Oberon: & >198 Oberon: I would agree that the British and French with its carving up of the Middle East during WW1 are the root cause of the present problems but that wasn't the issue. It is a fact that the West and the US in particular have armed the rebels. Assad was putting down an insurgency and with certainly a lack of restraint, but really is he less acceptable to the West than the ISIS or chaos alternatives we would then be faced with.

This is an excellent Guardian article on the arming of the rebels:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/19/us-weapons-to-syria-repeat...

The Washington Post also notes the role on arming the weapons in bringing the Russians into the conflict. Contrary to your comment, Erik, it notes:

"The CIA program got underway before the Pentagon one, in early 2014, with the goal of propping up the flagging rebellion against Assad’s rule by delivering training, small arms, ammunition and the antitank missiles, which have proved instrumental in eroding the government’s key advantage over the lightly armed rebel force — its tanks and heavy armor."

Full article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/did-us-weapons-supplied-to-syrian-rebels-dr...

In other words, Assad was winning. The US steps up arming the Rebels out of a desire for regime change and draws Russia in. What Russia is doing carpet bombing civilian areas must be strenuously objected to but the escalation of a proxy war is not the way to do that.

Both articles are from left-leaning newspapers with impeccable credentials and of course some of it like mine - and yours Erik - is mere opinion. What is to be cherished is our right to hold and ventilate those opinions and such a right is at threat from radical islam.

I don't like Assad. I don't like Russia. I am an apologist for neither. What strikes me though is how little the West and the US in particular have learned from the debacles in Iraq and Libya. By trying to replace Assad they are creating the breeding grounds for islamist fundamentalism and as a moderate and, I think, liberal muslim myself, I am horrified at the upsurge in the same.

Thanks Erik for the stimulating discussion. These are issues we obviously feel passionately about and I am quite sure that we have the same goal in mind without agreeing on the road by which we get there.

>199 PaulCranswick: I amend my statement above - the West has certainly been arming the rebels. My point (not well stated) was that the arming of rebel groups happened well after Assad initiated armed conflict. The Syrian civil war started 2011 and I would say sprang from elements of the Arab Spring and was originally peaceful. My disagreement was with your statement in >194 PaulCranswick: that the West had brought this on itself by arming rebels - Assad started this war.

My criticism of the Obama administration is that they waited too long to harm the rebels. Had they done so within a year of armed conflict beginning we (potentially) could have armed groups that more broadly supported our goals. Instead, the US delayed. By the time the US did decide to arm rebel groups the momentum in Syria had shifted to ISIS and similar militant groups which do not share US aims and objectives and with whom we could not partner.

I worry not that the US failed to learn from Iraq and Libya but rather that they learned the wrong lesson. A similar outcome occurred following the Black Hawk Down incident in Somalia. I believe very strongly that there would have been a more robust US response to genocide in Rwanda had we not learned the wrong lesson from Somalia. Similarly, had the US not been so damaged from the Bush administration's war in Iraq we would have stepped into Syria at a time when we could have accomplished something more helpful.

Syria is sadly devilishly complex and anyone who suggests that there is a simple solution (i.e. Trump) does not know what they are talking about. I just fear that the US has an unfortunate tendency to believe too much in its own ability to effect change combined with a long standing tendency to view the rest of the world as someone else's problem. As a result we either go in guns blazing (Iraq) or sit on the sidelines and wring our hands (Rwanda) when a middle ground could accomplish much more.

>200 Oberon: My criticism of the Obama administration is that they waited too long to harm the rebels

Hahaha I know what you meant dear chap!

I agree with you that the issues are complex and that Trump is not equipped to deal with it. They are issues that I don't pretend to either understand or have the answers to and I don't envy those charged with coming out of this malaise.

I think it is well known that covert forces in the region encouraged the rebels in their insurgency as did the success of uprisings elsewhere - the precise point at which the US became involved may never be fully known, but part of the problem now surely is one of honour. The dilemma is that US and its allies have given support to the rebels (even those elements that they really ought to be wiping out - not literally of course) and it is now not right to leave them to their fate. The Realpolitik is that as it stands Russia and Assad will regain a semblance of control over the country and how does the West best cope with the reality of that. In my opinion it does so by now having no choice but to shelter those fleeing the regime and by making an uncomfortable accommodation with Russia and Assad both to stress an end to the conflict and then to go on defeat ISIS once and for all.

>151 mirrordrum: That is a wonderful post, Ellie. Thank you.

This whole discussion is so interesting; I'm learning a lot by reading here.

Hi Joe.

>200 Oberon: & >201 PaulCranswick: The problem with Syria has also to do with muslim minorities. Assad is alawite, a minority in Syria. They feel only safe, against the other muslims, when they are in power. They have been prosecuted by sunni's for centuries.
Russia is involved because they have access to the Mediterranean Sea in a pact with Syria.

Good morning, everyone! Happy Election Day in the U.S.!

>188 brodiew2: Rama probably will stand the test of time, Brodie, I agree. Clarke had the knack - 2001, Childhood's End, Rama, maybe The City and the Stars, maybe Against the Fall of Night.

>189 vancouverdeb: Gotcha, Deb. Maybe that's not that different than USA-ians. Except we'd never call them jumpers. We'd call the whole group sweaters, and cardigans and pullovers would work here, although you'd probably say pullover sweater here, or just sweater. I'm trying to think of another name for them - fuzzy warmers? Yarn capsules? Extra layers?

>190 PaulCranswick:, >191 benitastrnad:, >192 benitastrnad:, >193 PaulCranswick:, >194 PaulCranswick:, >195 benitastrnad:, >196 PaulCranswick: Good discussion, you two!

So far it looks like a big election turnout here, which is what is needed. The Republicans always want to suppress voting numbers, because if everyone votes, it's bad for them.

We'll have gotten where we need to be when the fact that the leader is Black or gay or a woman or old or young or disabled or, or ,or does not occasion any comment either way. We are a long way from that as a society. . . Well put, Paul. Yup.

I always wonder what would happen if we stepped away, and let the Middle East sort out its own problems. Isn't that what we'd want in their shoes? Self-determination? It's impractical for a lot of reasons, including the lack of any ability for the powers and interests involved to agree to all step away. But there must be a feeling there among the powerless of victimization, as they watch the deadly effects of what Russia and the U.S. and others can bring to bear.

>197 Oberon: Sounds like you have a much better understanding of the possibilities of intervention than I do, Erik. I like your ideas. An international Bosnia style intervention/peace effort would certainly be welcome.

>198 Oberon: Thanks for these insights, Erik. ISIS having success against Assad - there's one that gives a person mixed feelings.

>199 PaulCranswick: Colonialism and desires for regime change and debacles in the Middle East - at least we're somewhat getting away from the first, Paul, but we still haven't learned our lessons with the last two. What's the ethical obligation of doctors - first, do no harm? What a different approach that would be.

>200 Oberon: Syria is sadly devilishly complex and anyone who suggests that there is a simple solution (i.e. Trump) does not know what they are talking about. I just fear that the US has an unfortunate tendency to believe too much in its own ability to effect change combined with a long standing tendency to view the rest of the world as someone else's problem. As a result we either go in guns blazing (Iraq) or sit on the sidelines and wring our hands (Rwanda) when a middle ground could accomplish much more.

Well said, Erik. People like to invest in the U.S. because we're stable and resolve our problems without armies clashing (ignoring our different gun problem for the moment) - business goes on. Is the spread of stabilization around the world anywhere on the horizon? It's sure hard to see from here.

>201 PaulCranswick: Thanks, Paul. I'm thinking there's never going to be a defeat of ISIS once and for all, at least in our lifetimes. Maybe a name change. Guerilla warfare by extremists seems to be a fact of life in this era.

>202 EBT1002: Hi, Ellen. I'm learning a lot, too. That is a wonderful post in >151 mirrordrum: by Ellie.

>203 FAMeulstee: What would we do without religious prejudice and persecution, Anita? I wish we could find out.

Good point about access to the Mediterranean Sea. As they say, "follow the money".

We need a huge voter turnout in the USA. Let's do it!

>209 jnwelch: - Done!

Voted last week by absentee ballot!

>210 katiekrug:, >211 Morphidae: Way to go, Katie and Morphy! We need it!

I voted last week, too, in Early Voting.

>207 jnwelch: Shockingly I am an optimist on such things. If you step back 50 to 100 years the world is almost certainly in better shape than it was. Fewer people die of preventable diseases and starvation is limited to conflict zones. Wars are still occurring but they are smaller are not as deadly as our mastery of weaponry could make them.

As for ISIS, I believe it is a regional phenomena and that it will die out (or maybe be snuffed out). We may have entered into a period of wars rather like the 100 years war in Europe where the interplay between competing faiths (Sunni/Shia) and relationships between rising powers (Iran/Turkey/Saudi Arabia) will result in a long period of unrest as the colonial borders are erased and the peoples of the Middle East sort into sustainable communities and possibly new nation states. I think the Kurds have basically accomplished this already.

>207 jnwelch: Yes, you're right about the world being in better shape than it was, Erik. I'm an optimist, and agree with all you say about that.

I am more pessimistic about ISIS and its ilk. The competing faiths and ideologies and frustrations with living conditions will sustain that kind of extremist violence for a long time to come, seems to me. But I'd love to be wrong.

This a quick, beautiful read, a little gem of a book. Teddy is an Irish wolfhound whom Sylvan, a poet and poetry teacher, rescued from a shelter. Teddy can successfully speak in a quiet, thoughtful voice to poets and children - being able to talk to Teddy is a sign of having achieved poet status. He's a wise fellow, but at loose ends when Sylvan unexpectedly becomes sick and passes away. "And he closes his eyes, his hands still on my neck. By the time Ellie gets there he is still. Silence”.

Sylvan has left him a house in the woods, with someone to stop in and take care of him. In a blizzard, Teddy rescues two lost children, and they all pull together in the house to survive the storm. They talk to one another about being left behind and being rescued, and Teddy tells the children about his beloved time with Sylvan. It feels timeless in the cozy house together, but the storm will pass, and what will happen then? The resolution is true and satisfying, and this is a magical little book. Madame MBH and I loved it.

In my Pre-K class we've been talking about the election in general terms, like what it means to vote, what the President does, etc. Yesterday, they did art and writing projects around what they would look like and do if they were President. Today they got to use their voter registration cards we made to vote on snack using ballots (goldfish won), and then they each got an "I Voted!" bracelet :)

>215 jnwelch: Aww, love it, Becca. Thanks. Go Goldfish!

>216 seasonsoflove: - An excellent choice for Top Snack. Goldfish are still my favorite!

Howdy Joe! I voted early. I voted for Hilary, but I supported Bernie in the primaries.

I will get a copy of Dead Boys for my Kindle so I can read it for the CATWoman next year.

Found this and have to share!

>209 jnwelch: Just noticed that in today's local (for work) newspaper that early voters already reached about 81% of the entire turnout for the county in 2012's presidential elections. It's going to be huge locally.

>216 seasonsoflove: - Love it! I used to do things like this in my classroom, too. We used to vote on just about anything, :-)

It's actually a great teaching tool, for math, for social studies, for language. It's moments like those that I miss (I retired a year and a half ago)....

>220 ronincats: - I don't even drink but this is funny!

Listening and learning.

>213 Oberon: I haven't read it yet Erik, but Stephen Pinker wrote a book called The Better Angels of our Nature which I think supports the fact that at least for a while we had become more peaceful, though I'm not sure it includes more recent events, especially post 9/11.

>199 PaulCranswick: By trying to replace Assad they are creating the breeding ground for Islamist Fundamentalism. Nodding. And puppet regimes are always ultimately a disaster.

>218 katiekrug: Agreed, Katie. I might've voted for cookies, if they were on the ballot, but Goldfish are just fine.

>219 luvamystery65: Hey, Roberta! Good to see you! You've been missed.

Glad you voted for the next President of the United States (knock on wood). I was an early voter, too.

Yay! I'm glad you're going to read Dead Boys. I can't tell you what a pleasure it is to be able to recommend it unreservedly. She's got it.

>220 ronincats: Holy Guacamole, Roni! This warrants further study with an appropriate beverage.

It's early, so I'm going to start with a light-bodied red. Then I plan to ride the wave with Tiki drinks, celebrating Hillary's victory, and celebrating replacing as many Republicans with Democrats as possible. Moderate Republicans may be okay, depending.

>221 thornton37814: Fascinating, Lori. I sure like Early Voting. Very convenient. But I know there are many that like the excitement of voting on Election Day. If I remember correctly, our Katie was hoping someone would try to intimidate her at the polls, so she could light them up. :-)

>222 jessibud2: Becca, as you can tell, Shelley, is an excellent teacher. (No bias here). She is great about using those opportunities you're talking about. She's been a magnet for little ones since she was a youngster. The kids in her classes are lucky to have her, and their parents know it and say it.

>223 jessibud2: Ha! I'm just hoping for celebratory quaffing, Shelley, and not drowning our sorrows.

>226 jnwelch: - You remember correctly. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective), no one was even standing the requisite 100 feet or whatever from the entrance when I got there. As I left, there was one supporter of a state rep candidate, but he was supporting the one I voted for, so no fisticuffs ensued... But I did get a sticker finally!

>228 katiekrug: Ha! Somehow I think that is good news, Katie. Although I was looking forward to your tale if mayhem ensued. :-)

They gave us "I voted" bracelets here. I like the stickers better.

Around here, at least, you can get a free Krispy Kreme donut today for your "I Voted" sticker.

Oh, and Joe, that's Roberta in >219 luvamystery65:, not me. I know you know that, but your fingers weren't paying attention.

>227 jnwelch: - You crack me up!

LOL! My morning guy on the radio just tweeted this:

"Election talk from the barber shop: "I don't know. Maybe we should just ask Barry to stick around on a month-by-month basis."

Hi Joe, finally it's Election Day for the USA - I thought this campaign would never end. I have my fingers crossed that this is going to turn out to be a day of triumph for HRC and that Donald Trump will go quietly.

I have picked up my copy of Dead Boys and, like Roberta, will work it into the CatWomen Challenge (celebrating woman authors) next year.

>230 ronincats: Darn fingers! They were too busy . . . I'm not sure what the heck they were too busy doing, but I'm going to give them a talking to. Thanks, Roni.

A free Krispy Kreme donut? I would've voted several times if that were the reward.

>231 jessibud2: One of my favorite things to do, Shelley. :-)

>232 jessibud2: Yes! I'm with your morning guy, Shelley. I'd take Barry on a month-to-month, or four years guaranteed, if there's some way to make it happen.

>233 DeltaQueen50: Finally! You and me both, Judy. This has been the most vile and painful election season in my lifetime, or ever, as far as I know. How this could even be considered close is beyond me.

Yay! I'm glad you picked up a copy of Dead Boys. That should make for quite a discussion in the Catwomen Challenge.

This helps remind us that there are some larger concerns today than who gets elected in the U.S.

>228 katiekrug: You know, there was no one outside our polling place this time either. We thought that was odd. Maybe it was the time of day; I'm used to voting around 8:00 a.m. on the way to work. Now that I'm retired, my husband and I went together around 11:00. Lots of voters, and lots of signs in the grass, but no campaigners.

>230 ronincats: I never mind being confused for you Ro!

>233 DeltaQueen50: Excellent Judy! Glad to have company and we can spread the word.

Joe, you can call me Roni anytime. Just call me! :P

BTW I loved Velvet, Volume 3!!! Such a great series. Is this it? Looks like it doesn't it?

hullo luv.

>171 Morphidae: >131 jnwelch: heya Morphy. nope, that's not pop Xena. this is pop Xena w/ the season 5-6 chakram. i prefer the original chaky, thank you.

and here she is (loud ululation).



no Gabrielle, no Argo but, well, it's Xener.

>236 jnwelch: marvey, Joe. :-)

Happy Voting Day, Joe! Lots of chatter going on at the good ole' Cafe! Good to hear, that there is such a high voter turn-out. I do not understand voter apathy. Can you help me with that one?

Hope we get the right outcome by the end of the evening. Fingers crossed.

I am enjoying His Bloody Project and should finish it tomorrow. You will also like Hero of the Empire. Millard is kicking butt with NNF.

i don't know whether or not you posted this Adriana piece, Joe, but in the event you didn't, i'm giving it its own spot. it's extraordinary. how i would love to talk with/listen to her. i did watch her TED talk from Texas but this is better. i'd like to hear her perform it.

What Does It Mean to Be a Poet in the Face of Violence?

eta: when i listened to the TED talk, and again here, i was blown away by, amongst other things, her knowledge of Dulce et decorum est and her ability and willingness to put it in the context of her work.

she's amazing.

Very late to the party on this Joe, but I wanted to send my congrats on the Cubbies World Series win. I stayed up through the rain delay to see the final out and haven't been so excited since the Red Sox in 2004. Yay Theo Epstein! Many of us went to cemeteries to lay pennants on gravestones; it was impossible not to thing of our parents, aunts and uncles who stayed loyal all those years. I imagine that you have similar stories in the windy city.

So now our next big November event. Cross fingers for the future Madame President.

Looks like a nail biter. According to the BBC Trump leads 140 to 104 in electoral college votes. I am a bit worried with Pennsylvania, Florida and Ohio all too close to call and Trump seemingly slightly ahead in them. Surely not enough collective madness to see him elected?

I may be not amongst HRCs biggest fans but, for heaven's sake!

It is indeed shocking, so far. Not in a good way....:-(

Shocking so far. Heard in my local library " we are building a wall" " I was thinking of crossing the border tomorrow to the States, but not if Trump gets in ." I feel sorry for you sensible people in the USA.

Thanks, Deb. Very worrisome right now. Yikes.

Going back to the discussion on Syria, I don't think you can talk about Syria without mentioning the increasing and long term influence of Iran. Thanks to Iran's interference, the Lebanese Hezbollah have grown strong and they and Iran helped prop up Assad.

Watching the election coverage - wow, not what I expected.

I'm scared. Our country is going to be destroyed over the next four years and I fear that MrMorphy and I will end up homeless.

Unfortunately, I agree with all of you. Its like the life that we have known, the country that we have known is over, in just one night. For the last several weeks, I have been too agitated by all of this to do any reading. Is that going to be our solace?

Wow, the Canadian immigration site crashed. Do you think he'll build a wall so we can't get out?

good morning, Joe. i'm on my way to bed at 2:15 as it seems life is going to be very strange for awhile and i wanted to greet you anyway. now we learn to walk in different shoes and this too shall pass.

we must now learn from our mates across the pond: Keep Calm and Carry On.

>251 mirrordrum: Walk in the same shoes dear lady : America, the United States of America is too great a nation to be brought low by one electoral disaster.

Now is surely the time for the right minded to stand tall and defend your rights and freedoms irrespective of creed, colour, gender, sexuality, tax group and so on.

>250 kac522: Kathy you would surely be welcome in Sheffield if you can escape in time!

>248 Morphidae: There is some strength left Morphy. I am sure that this group would do its best collectively to prevent you from ever being without a home.

As you know Joe I was not a fan of HRC but I am dismayed.

>250 kac522: wah.! Classic. Here in NZ we heard that 'moving to NZ' was trending.

It's bad news for sure, but I am convinced that the lesser of two evils was going to be better than what we have now. I guess we will find out!

I have similiar feelings as after Brexit... agree with Paul, it's time to stand tall and hope for the best.

Commiserations and good luck!

This is a nightmare. The leadership has gone from *Class* to *Crass*.

I am so sorry. I will wear red and black today: red for rage, black for mourning

:-(

^Is this just a nightmare or is this actually happening...?

>257 msf59: Ha! Debbi and I had the same thought, Mark. Maybe it's just a nightmare and we'll wake up. :-)

>251 mirrordrum: good morning, Joe. i'm on my way to bed at 2:15 as it seems life is going to be very strange for awhile and i wanted to greet you anyway. now we learn to walk in different shoes and this too shall pass.

we must now learn from our mates across the pond: Keep Calm and Carry On.

Thanks for the wise and helpful words, Ellie. Life is going to be very strange for awhile; I'm glad you decided to greet me anyway. Salutations to you, too. Keep Calm and Carry On. Okay. As Madame MBH would say, right foot, left foot. Just keep going.

My condolences to the many who are sad today. We'll get through this. Our system of checks and balances hopefully will limit the damage. The radio said he had 70% support among white men who hadn't graduated college, and 60% among white women who hadn't. They've spoken, and now they've been heard. To me, that's an insular group that hasn't gotten exposed to other types of people the way those who've gone to college have. So we need to think about that.

>237 laytonwoman3rd: Good for you for getting out there and voting, Linda. Those who didn't think their vote mattered better think twice now, whatever their outlook.

>238 luvamystery65: Ha! Like you, Ro, I don't mind getting confused with Dr. Jim. I've had a serious sitdown on with my fingers, and I don't anticipate their getting your name wrong again.

I'm glad you and Judy are going to dig into Dead Boys. So good.

Ha! I'll call you all right. I'm hoping we can visit you again in Houston some time soon.

Wasn't Velvet Volume 3 a racehorse? I loved it. I'm hoping they do some more - maybe start a new story. Velvet is such a "root for" character.

>239 mirrordrum: Hiya, Ellie. >236 jnwelch: cracks me up. Nice Funko Xena! I used to enjoy the dopey humor in that show. Sometimes you've got to let the brain cells sit back and relax in a lounge chair.

>240 msf59: Hiya, Mark. Nope, I'll never understand voter apathy. There's that on-point cartoon of a crowd with 1/3 saying they voted, and the other 2/3 saying their vote wouldn't matter.

Isn't His Bloody Project haunting? Wait until you get to the end. What really happened? All the way through, there are different ways of looking at it.

I think understanding the intricate 'why's' is the best lesson we can learn Joe. I'm worried here that dashing for a hard BREXIT to prove the people have the power promised will lead by the nose, and the deep dissatisfaction and disenfranchisement that has lead to BREXIT and Trump will not be properly understood or addressed.

>241 mirrordrum: I'm glad you appreciate Adriana and what she writes, Ellie. As you can tell, we think she's amazing, too.

Thanks for posting that link to her article on being a poet in the face of violence. http://lithub.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-poet-in-the-face-of-violence/ She's very thoughtful and strong-minded. We first got to know her when our son was dating her outside of Chicago (so we hadn't met her), and he told us to watch her Tedx talk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKBQIQ2bCc We were wowed from the get-go.

I'm pretty sure Dulce et decorum est by Wilfred Owen is a favorite WWI poem of our friend Paul Cranswick. She's a sweet, honorable one, she is.

>242 NarratorLady: Thank you, Anne! I'm going to try to maintain the glow from that Cubbies win on this day that feels dark for many of us. Theo Epstein is a gift. Yes, there are stories and remembrances of departed Cubs fans all over the windy city; the celebration up there must have been a boisterous one. :-)

>261 Caroline_McElwee: Right, Caroline. We need to look at why this happened here, and learn from it, and I know you want to do the same with the BREXIT vote. Both are surprises that seem to stem from deep-seated dissatisfactions and fears.

>243 PaulCranswick: The collective madness prevailed, Paul. Woo. Our founding fathers would be shaking their heads (the guy from Celebrity Apprentice? Really?), but maybe they'd understand better than we do. Rural vs. urban, uneducated vs. educated, experienced and vilified (unjustly, IMO) politician vs. charismatic "clean slate" novice. Trump said many years ago that if he ever ran, he'd run as a Republican, because they'd vote for him regardless of what he said or did. That sure proved to be true.

Morning Joe! I would have said Good Morning but I don't think many are happy today!

>244 jessibud2: Yes, Shelley. Shocking and not good. It's a tough day, but we'll all look out for each other.

>245 vancouverdeb: Thanks again, Deb. We're as horrified as the rest of the world. But, as Ellie says, we'll get through it. We'd sure better learn from it.

>247 avatiakh: Hi, Kerry. Yes, Iranian influence in Syria is worrisome, too. I think the election results surprised a whole lot of people and, for many of us, not in a good way. He's likely to do what he can to roll back a whole lot of progress that has been made. Plus, experience tells us that Republicans are bad for our economy, so I worry about that part, too.

>248 Morphidae: I don't blame you, Morphy. We're here for you. A lot of folks are worried right now, but we need to keep looking out for each other.

>249 catarina1: Hi, Catarina. It's tough; like many, I thought our country was better than this. For today, at least, I think we all should be good to ourselves, and provide solace to ourselves whatever way we can. For me, that's likely to be reading. Others might pick . . . chocolate. :-) Some of us may need to do that longer than others. It's a shocker, no doubt about it.

>250 kac522: From what I've seen from his supporters, Kathy, he and his supporters would love to see us leave. So, of course, we'd better stay and fight. I do envy our Canadian friends being able to wake up and say, Justin Trudeau is our Prime Minister.

>251 mirrordrum: Thanks again, Ellie. It's tempting to quote you again. "good morning, Joe. i'm on my way to bed at 2:15 as it seems life is going to be very strange for awhile and i wanted to greet you anyway. now we learn to walk in different shoes and this too shall pass.

we must now learn from our mates across the pond: Keep Calm and Carry On." I'll be re-reading that a few times today. :-)

>267 jnwelch: - Yes, Justin Trudeau is our PM and I am grateful for that every day. But your news is our news and it's pretty much all that's on the news today, up here.

Breathe in, breathe out....

>252 PaulCranswick: Hi, Paul. Yup, we need to all keep looking out for each other, regardless of color, disability, etc. This is going to be a major test of our system. When they go low, we go high. We're going to need each other more than ever.

>253 LovingLit: Hi, Megan. Madame MBH and I did joke about needing to travel outside of the country more. I don't think what's happened here will be better, as Obama did a superb job, and this other guy will try to undo as much of it as he can. But maybe we'll all be better for it. People that we took for granted stood up and expressed their frustration by voting for him, despite what many of us saw as unprecedented ugliness and un-American posturing and principles.

>268 jessibud2: Ha! Exactly, Shelley. Breathe in, breathe out. It's difficult knowing our news has impact elsewhere. I'm not proud of our country today, and many of us were looking forward to having proudly elected our first woman president. I hope this guy honors the office, and that our system properly restrains his worst instincts.



>254 FAMeulstee: I can imagine you had similar feelings after Brexit, Anita. Some similar undercurrents of fear, particularly of immigrants, and a surprising result.

>255 Caroline_McElwee: Thanks, Caroline. I share your commiserations and good luck wishes with all who hoped this would turn out otherwise.

>256 jessibud2: I know, Shelley. I'm so sorry. From class to crass, well put. The Obamas have been a light of grace and hope. There will be a lot of examination of how and why this happened. The amorphous floating dislike and distrust of Hillary didn't help. As for actual events, she held a double digit lead in the polls until Cromie at the FBI said they were examining new emails relating to her (not even hers, and as it turns out, nothing new), against the advice of the Justice Dept. That immediately got Trump back in the race.

P.S. The media's fixation with her emails over all other stories (many very damaging to Trump) is perplexing, too. But maybe they found those really made advertising, etc. money for them. Still, I don't get it from a reporting, journalism standpoint.

Morning, Joe - couldn't help comparing the tone on your thread with the apocalypse that is Fscebook this morning. I'm glad this group is an oasis of civility!

I just don't understand the entire concept of *popular vote*. How can she win a popular vote and lose? If it is an *electoral college* vote (another concept I don't understand), that is all that is needed to determine to the outcome, what is the point of another vote, the popular one?? Clearly, Hillary wasn't popular enough, if she lost. This is all beyond what my little pea brain can make sense of...

>272 drneutron: Ha! Glad to hear it, Jim. I haven't been on Facebook since the wee hours; I'll bet it's apocalyptic. Let's hang out here, instead. :-)

>273 jessibud2: I'm no expert, Shelley, but it's our state's rights approach. Each state gets a certain number of electoral votes - a minimum of three, and then it goes up from there based on the state's population. That means we sometimes get a screwy result where the overall vote winner doesn't win enough electoral votes.

I am going to turn this conversation in a little bit of a different direction.

This morning on Deutschwella TV one of the German political pundits called President Obama an "President of Annoucements." All Obama did was announce things and then nothing happened. I found it an amusing description - but very true. Obama didn't accomplish ANY of the things I hoped for when I voted for him. Does that mean I think he was a bad president? No. What I do think is that he was hamstrung by a recalcitrant congress. Now we have a Republican President and a Republican Congress. This is a perfect time to start making changes. Everybody should be in synchronization? There should be no more split votes? No more stalling in Congress on important appointments to bureaucratic positions? Things should run smoothly and change should happen. So now - let's see what the bastards can do!

I think it is important to note that Americans love demigods. They believe what they see on TV. They vote for the winner. (There is a reason why it is called the "myth" of the lovable loser.) Trump is seen as a winner because of his potty mouth and actions and the fact that he got away with it. Most voters love the fact that he thumbed his nose at society and culture and they wanted to help him win.

The message of "crocked hillary!" went out, was heard, and most importantly, was believed. HRC lost because she is a woman and because of the Obama backlash.

And lastly - I am so disappointed in women. In the last week I have talked with several college student women. Two of them lied to me when they told me that they voted. They voted absentee or took advantage of the early voting. I knew they were lying when they told me. I said nothing to them. I let myself down in this. In many discussions with college age women, I have noted a singular lack of understanding about the status of women workers. These young women are very short sighted. They believe that if they just work hard, they will achieve the same status as men. (Or perhaps they think they will "marry up" - like all three of Trump's wives.) In serious conversations with them, I have outlined some of the things that have happened to me in my lifetime and I can see in their faces that they don't believe this will happen to them. Now, I am facing retirement knowing that I will have a lower retirement pension than men working in the same positions as myself and it is due to the lower wages I have had all of my life. I think it is important that we women not let the women's movement die and I have struggled to keep a conversation about women in the workplace going, but I know that I am fighting a losing battle as these young women simply don't want to be bothered with it. They will not understand how important enacting laws that help women, minorities, and the poor, will be to their futures.

#273 & 274

State's Rights - pooh! It all goes back to slavery. At least the States Rights thing does. I am sure that there are some good books out there on the Constitutional Convention 1787. I might have to look for some today. It will help me to breathe and stay calm and carry on.

>275 benitastrnad: I don't quite agree with you about Obama, Benita. Obama was hamstrung by a recalcitrant Congress, for sure, but he was hugely successful in what he accomplished.

George W headed us toward a devastating depression, which was keenly felt in my part of the world, I can tell you, and Obama saved our butts with the stimulus plan. And then cut the huge deficit. While overhauling the student loan system. While getting universal healthcare enacted, which I never thought I'd see in my lifetime. While getting our economy geared back up to its current healthy state and reducing unemployment below 5%. He's changed the landscape for clean energy, opened up U.S.-Cuba relations, led, fought for and entered the International Climate Change agreement, got us out of two wars started by Bush, got Osama Bin Laden, negotiated the Iran nuclear deal, got the Dodd-Frank Act passed. I think we'll be appreciating all that he's done better in the coming years, and it was done with grace and civility, with no scandals.

He has very high approval ratings now, as you know, so to me calling it the "Obama backlash" is a bit of a misnomer. Nonetheless, I do think a large portion of the white uneducated voters discussed above do resent him, his color, and his election.

I'm disappointed in women, too. 60% of uneducated white women voted for him - how is that possible. And lots of educated women must have, too. I'll let other LT women comment on what you say, but I agree that there's been a lack of understanding, and maybe a lack of motivation, that needs to be addressed.

>276 benitastrnad: :-)

>275 benitastrnad: I'm sorry Benita but I don't want to agree that Hillary lost because she was a woman. There were problems with her as a candidate that certainly transcended her gender, which I won't rub salt into today because I am also sad about the outcome. Trump is a populist - an empty-headed, foul mouthed one in many ways but a populist nonetheless. He tapped into concerns in middle America about job insecurity that Hillary failed to do. The fact that it is more than likely empty words and was always devoid of real policy prescriptions, nevertheless people were fed up with the system as it has failed them. That is why Brexit was sprung on us Brits and it is why Hillary lost. Bernie would have beaten him. Elizabeth Warren would have beaten him. I thought Hillary would have beaten him but she simply wasn't the best candidate to put up against a pugilist like Trump.

As I said earlier, America is bigger than Trump and the greatness of your nation will prevail. I have no friends who voted for Trump, thankfully, and I have many friends hurting today. My thoughts are with you all.

ETA

>278 jnwelch: Joe, I agree with you - Obama has been a very good President and if he had been able to stand for a third term, I am sure that he would have had the wherewithal to win.

By the way I am watching Hillary's concession and I wish she had made such impassioned speeches during the campaign rather than being drawn into a catfight. She demonstrated some class; fair play.

>277 jnwelch: right on Joe.

eta: I was discouraged to find how many young women in college and recently graduated presumably educated young women were Trump supporters. Even here in Calif.

>279 PaulCranswick: Personally, I do think Hillary's being a woman was a big factor, Paul, but there undoubtedly were other problems, too. I'm a big Elizabeth Warren fan, but I'm not sure how that would've worked out if she were the candidate. I love Bernie, too, but a Jew as a Presidential candidate in America - that would have been another first, with its own difficulties. Of course, that was said about JFK as a Catholic way back when.

Yes, I think Obama would've crushed Trump if he could've run for a third term. He has the right political smarts and sense of humor to deflate the Trump balloon, and an enviable record to run on.

Listening to Hillary's concession speech will be hard as far as my heart goes, but I'm glad you're finding it a classy one.

>280 RBeffa: Thanks, Ron. Bless California. It just wasn't enough. Florida is always a problem (from my POV), but man am I disappointed by Ohio.

I'm staggered by any woman who would support Trump. I don't understand how that mindset could be reached. Maybe the infatuation with celebrities in our country.

I just watched Hillary speak. Class act. There is no way in hell Trump would have been gracious in defeat. Or eloquent. Or anything but a raving lunatic.

I don't know how she didn't break down into tears. I did, and I'm not even American. I am now waiting for Obama to speak.

Good morning, Joe. I know it is a rough day around here for some. I made a post over at Mark's. I want you to know that I respect you greatly even if I disagree with you regarding the election. I hope your day get's better.

Educated pro-lifers (anti-abortion-ers) are another group that voted for Trump, and that needs to be recognized. I have trouble understanding how Christians could vote for a man who demonstrably has no sense of decency, who violates so many Christian precepts, but for many, the abortion issue surmounts all others. I see this guy as an opportunist on that issue, because I see him as a con man, but others may not feel that way, or care, as long as he pushes for the "right" outcome.

>282 jessibud2: Good to hear, Shelley. Consider what might have happened if Trump won the popular vote (as Hillary apparently did), but lost the electoral vote. Do you suppose he might have claimed it was "rigged"? Of course.

Obama has previously said that, regardless of outcome, we'll be okay and we'll still be the greatest nation on earth. He has tremendous faith in democracy. This is surely a test of that. I look forward to what he has to say.

>283 brodiew2: Thanks, Brodie. Vice verski, buddy. I just hope we all survive this all right.

The view from the future?

*snerk*

I love Galaxy Quest!

>275 benitastrnad: "Two of them lied to me when they told me that they voted. They voted absentee or took advantage of the early voting."

How is that not voting?

>279 PaulCranswick: "I wish she had made such impassioned speeches during the campaign"

I was thinking the same thing.

>282 jessibud2: "I don't know how she didn't break down into tears."

She didn't allow herself to. Nobody that high up in politics, especially a woman, will allow themselves to. It's considered a major weakness. You'll notice that Obama didn't until his second term.

>287 jnwelch: Never give up! Never surrender!

#289
They didn't vote. Absentee or otherwise. They lied and said they did, but they didn't. They told me what I wanted to hear, because I had just told them that I had voted absentee. One of them told me that she had registered in Alabama and then later told me that she missed the cut-off date for registering.

howdy, Joe. i'd like

i think the election just hit me. i keep trying to encourage myself by remembering that HRC won the popular vote. maybe a lot of those people don't like her but at least a lot of them don't like what the Real Estate Developer stands for even more. i hear the notorious RBG wore her dissent jabot yesterday on the bench. breaks my heart for her. she adores President Obama and this has to be a huge blow to all serious members of SCOTUS. i wish every woman who doesn't understand why women my age voted for HRC would read that book to understand the period of time in which we came of age. it's written by 2 millennial women, btw.

>287 jnwelch: just think of the many new historical, or possibly hysterical, documents they would have now. and whilst we're on the subject of sci-fi, did you know there is no character Aech/Helen in the Ready Player One movie? ergo, the writers are a bunch of, uh, creeps and poseurs, far worse than iRok. i do not wish to be rude so i changed a descriptive noun there. seriously? you cannot have RP1 w/out aech. period. finito!

>277 jnwelch: - Joe, may I quote you here? On another book site I frequent, there is a similar discussion going on where some are having difficulty remembering Obama's accomplishments and I think you have outlined them quite well here.

I'd personally like to add something from my Canadian perspective: he added class and dignity to the job, not to mention, intelligence, things sorely lacking in the many years before he moved into the White House and something absolutely not forthcoming in the foreseeable future. The very first thought that entered my head when I heard the results yesterday was: From Class to Crass". I am sad to say, I believe that will be proven true from this day forward.

>287 jnwelch: *snork!!* Love it!
Morning, Joe. One foot in front of the other, I suppose, eh? Just keep swimming...

Good morning! I'll be in a meeting all morning, so I'll catch up with you later.

OK, let's catch up.

>288 drneutron: I join your snerk, Jim. Love Galaxy Quest!

>289 Morphidae: Hi, Morphy. Never give up! Never surrender! Ha! Words we can use these days, right?

Gwen DeMarco: What is this thing? I mean, it serves no useful purpose for there to be a bunch of chompy, crushy things in the middle of a hallway. No, I mean we shouldn't have to do this, it makes no logical sense, why is it here?

Jason Nesmith: 'Cause it's on the television show.

Gwen DeMarco: Well forget it! I'm not doing it! This episode was badly written!

>290 benitastrnad: Got it, thanks, Benita.

I don't think I mentioned it here, but on NPR (I think it was NPR) the theory on the polls being off was that many responding didn't want to say they'd be voting for Trump because of the negative sentiment against him, but in the privacy of the voting booth, that's who they voted for.

>291 mirrordrum: Hi, Ellie. I think you got interrupted in the middle of your "I'd like" - a cup of Mexican Hot Chocolate? World Peace?

Yeah, I can imagine the Notorious RBG and others on the court are feeling sick right now. Having the Real Estate Developer name the next S Ct nominee in the hope of overturning Roe v. Wade and going conservative was a big voting attraction for many. I'm not happy seeing the S Ct politicized, but we can't seem to get rid of that.

Jeez, you're right about RPO. What are they thinking? It was like the toy company - was it the maker of Monopoly? - who didn't have a Rey character because they apparently didn't think Star Wars fans would be excited about her. Idiots.

>292 jessibud2: Hi, Shelley. Yeah, from Class to Crass. Arggh. And I'm really unhappy about all our kids seeing this group in the White House; the Obamas were such a great example for them.

Please, quote away! It's all for sharing.

>293 scaifea: Hi, Amber. We could all use a good snork, right? Yeah, we'll just keep swimming, walking, making our way - we've all got each other. As Jeff said over on Mark's thread, we made it through two terms of Bush, we'll make it through this. (Although, wow, does this seem worse!)

Don't mess with the librarian.

>298 jnwelch: Too right.

Love the Galaxy Quest quotes. Keep them coming please prop.

(And maybe some comfort cake? Chocolate for preference...)

>299 charl08: Gotcha, Charlotte. Here you go:

the crew is on a shuttle descending to an alien planet

Guy Fleegman: I changed my mind. I wanna go back.

Sir Alexander Dane: After the fuss you made about getting left behind?

Guy Fleegman: Yeah, but that's when I thought I was the crewman that stays on the ship, and something is up there, and it kills me. But now I'm thinking I'm the guy who gets killed by some monster five minutes after we land on the planet.

Jason Nesmith: You're not gonna die on the planet, Guy.

Guy Fleegman: I'm not? Then what's my last name?

Jason Nesmith: It's, uh, uh - -I don't know.

Guy Fleegman: Nobody knows. Do you know why? Because my character isn't important enough for a last name, because I'm gonna die five minutes in.

Gwen DeMarco: Guy, you have a last name.

Guy Fleegman: DO I? DO I? For all you know, I'm "Crewman Number Six"! Mommy... mommy...

Sir Alexander Dane: Are we there yet?

* * *

Good morning Joe! (still morning, here) I hope all is well with you.

As resident caption-er (unappointed):

Stephen had no idea that the librarian would take the time to reload, with a glass bottle, after drawing blood with her first projectile, the stapler. He should have known better than to reject her recommendations of Nora Roberts, James Patterson, Nicholas Sparks, and Clive Cussler! He would learn their value or he would never check out another book again.

>300 jnwelch: :-). Thanks Joe (forgive me speaking with my mouth full of cake!).

>301 brodiew2: Ha! Good one, Brodie. Pay heed to librarian recommendations, or pay the price!

>302 charl08: :-) You're welcome, Charlotte. We may have to bring some of that cake out.