MESSAGE BOARD 2019

Welcome to Reading Globally for the New Year.

First the big news: I'm delighted to say that Thorold will be leading this group in the new year. Given his depth and breadth of reading from around the world, there will be lots of suggestions and new ideas. I'm certainly looking forward to this new start, so welcome, Thorold.

Last chance to put your votes in for 2019 theme reads here: https://www.librarything.com/topic/301039

If you marked undecided in any of the choices, here is a chance to firm it up.

Congratulations, Thorold!

>1 SassyLassy: >3 Dilara86: Thanks! I don't know if I can live up to that hype, since I'm stepping into shoes that have been worn by some of the people I most respect on LT, but I'll do my best...

>2 SassyLassy: It looks as though we are going to have some pretty clear results from the voting, but in fairness I'd better set a clear closing time: I'll count the votes and declare the winners tomorrow, Saturday 5 January at 09.00 Dutch time (that's 03.00 Eastern Time for those of you on the other side of the pond...).

If you've already voted, you will know the likely "winners" - it's not too early to start thinking about which of them you are going to volunteer to moderate, because you know I'll be coming after you shortly :-)

The voting is now closed - please see the other thread for the numbers. Thanks to everyone who voted!

As a result, we now have the following themes for 2019:

Regional quarterly themes
Mitteleuropa - roughly defined as Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic/Slovakia, Austria - through all the various incarnations of those countries - 9 votes (Q? moderator)
The Mediterranean World - those countries surrounding the Mediterranean and linked by that body of water - 9 votes (Q1 @thorold)

Topic-based quarterly themes
Turning the Tables: Postcolonial Writers on the Colonizers - 11 votes (Q? moderator)
Speculative Fiction from around the World (suggested as SF, fantasy and dystopias) - 12 votes (Q? @Dilara86)

We also seem to have a substantial quorum for a Year-long theme of Classics in their own Countries - 14 votes

Women from around the world, with 10 votes, was only very narrowly squeezed out, but of course there's nothing to stop us focussing our reading on women writers in one or more of the other themes. Indeed, all the themes that failed to get over the bar seem to be things we can pick up in the ones that did. The other proposal for a year-long theme, Your own Journey through Foreign Lands, only got 6 votes, but of course it's something that doesn't really need a centralised thread - if you want to try this, please start your own thread for it.

I'm now looking for Volunteers to moderate the quarterly themes. Please let me know if you're interested!

To get things going, I propose to take The Mediterranean World for Q1 (we need a bit of sunshine!) and moderate it myself (further helpers welcome, of course). I'll put the thread up for that and for Classics in their own countries shortly.

Yay for the Mediterranean world!

I can moderate Speculative Fiction from around the World, if you need someone.

>6 Dilara86: I can moderate Speculative Fiction - thanks! Any preference as to when in the year?
That's one I'm definitely not qualified for, but I hope to learn something from it.

>7 thorold: No preference at all: whenever's most convenient for the other moderators.

The Mediterranean thread is here: https://www.librarything.com/topic/301914

Feel free to dive into the clear, blue water...

Thank you for the new thread!

I'm bumping this to give it a bit more visibility. My concern is that with all the new threads for the new year, people haven't noticed it...

Questions for the Avid Reader is back: https://www.librarything.com/topic/302489

>12 SassyLassy: Whoops, put this on the wrong Message thread, but all still welcome to give their thoughts!

I have bumped the four Classics in Their Own Country threads from 2012. I am planning to use these threads to incorporate and continue with the year-long Classics in Their Own Country read for 2019. I should have updated author/book information posted in the next week or so, but in the meantime, feel free to look over the threads—they contain lots of good info and book recommendations!

The threads for Classics in Their Own Country for Europe and for Africa have now been updated and are open for business. I hope we'll soon have people reading and commenting on those threads.

I hope to have the Classics in Their Own Country for Asia and for Latin America completed soon.

>15 arubabookwoman: Those lists are a fantastic resource! Many thanks for updating them.

Would it be okay to make a thread for "Classics in their countries you're unlikely to have heard about/read in translation" (I'm not suggesting THAT title, just the meaning, something along those lines...)

Because I notice, looking at the selections for some of those I happen to be more familiar with, that many "real", i.e. older canonised classics, lose out to what is available in English--which unsurprisingly skews to contemporary and living authors especially for small countries.

P.S. Maybe something like "Canon classics in their countries" or similar. Otherwise for many of these there's hardly any distinction to reading whatever happens to get published in translation.

P.P.S. "high school classics", "dead white dudes and maybe a token gal classics", "books a random person stopped in the streets would remember being tortured with in school because they are Very Important National Treasures"--that sort of thing

>17 LolaWalser: That would be a great idea. I’m not an expert in any of this, and I also speak only English. That’s why in my introduction I suggested that anyone with more specialized knowledge could step up to the plate with any authors/books not included in the lists because they have not translated into English or for any other reason.

In doing my research (obviously limited), I simply didn’t have the time or expertise to delve deeply into the canonical literature (or even in most cases literature published prior to the 19th century) of all the countries included in these threads. I perhaps mistakenly assumed that, like myself, most of the participants in RG are interested in reading good, and perhaps even important literature, from other countries primarily for pleasure, rather than as an academic study of the literature of a particular country. I recognize that many people who try to include a lot of translated literature in their reading will have heard of many of these authors or titles, and I count myself among them. I do hope though, that there are enough unfamiliar titles to intrigue most people. I know that I added a significant number of titles to my wishlist.

>18 arubabookwoman:

Oh, I certainly don't have in mind academic study, it's just that to me "classics in their own country" sounds like something very different to merely "notable books" or some such. To me it implies something that informed the culture over a long period and (at least through the educational feedback loop) still does and exists in the intellectual heritage of whatever writers DO get translated and read today outside the borders.

>19 LolaWalser: Would love to have you add any “real” (older, canonized) classics for any of the countries/languages you are familiar with.
I took a very liberal view of the term “classic,” and that is one of the topics I suggested discussing in regard to books read -does that particular book meet the definition of a classic, however that may be defined?

>20 arubabookwoman:

I'd gladly help where I can (I hope others do too) but seeing as many of such titles are likely to be unavailable, would you have them added to the reading threads? Perhaps a FYI sort of thread would come in handy as an appendix to the reading threads and so maybe emphasise this point. I just thought it worth noting especially because frequently there's this lopsided view of Anglo and a few other "big" literary traditions as the alpha and the omega whereas everyone else came into being basically five minutes ago, sad little epigones who couldn't possibly have said anything truly beautiful and original in their ridiculous dialects. I mean, what did Bruno Schulz study in high school in Drohobycz in 1904? Who published first secular poetry in Bohemia? That's the sort of thing that keeps me awake at night. ;)

>21 LolaWalser: This. A hundred times this. (and also the comment about translations skewing to contemporary) Every time I see a Greatest Books Ever Written list that's 100% English, or possibly mostly English with the addition of War and Peace, Les Misérables, Don Quixote and if we're lucky The Sorrows of Young Werther, I want to hurl something at the screen.

>21 LolaWalser: Coincidentally, I am currently reading Labyrinths by Borges which includes an essay titled “The Argentine Writer and Tradition,” in which Borges discusses which literary traditions contemporary Argentine writers “should” look to. He says, “I believe that Martin Fiero is the most lasting work we Argentines have written; and I believe with the same intensity that we cannot suppose Martin Fiero is, as it has sometimes been said, our Bible, our canonical book.”

He later discusses another canonical work, Don Segundo Sombra by Guiraldes, noting its various literary antecedents and influences, concluding, “I do not wish to lessen the value of Don Segundo Sombra; on the contrary, I want to emphasize the fact that, in order that we might have this book, it was necessary for Guiraldes to recall the poetic technique of the French circles of his time and the work of Kipling which he had read many years before; in other words, Kipling and Mark Twain and the metaphors of French poets were necessary for this Argentine book, for this book which, I repeat, is no less Argentine for having accepted such influences.”

I loved his concluding thought: “I believe that if we surrender ourselves to that voluntary dream which is artistic creation, we shall be Argentine and we shall also be good or tolerable writers.”

Off to do some voluntary dreaming.

>22 Dilara86:

The nice thing about "school canons", or official canons or whatever, is that, if you're interested in what they look like in a certain place, the question of relative quality doesn't enter into it. Is Jane Austen better than Dostoevsky or vice versa? Irrelevant, or unanswerable--point is both are in their respective national canons; both are still read and taught, part of the culture, mental baggage etc. Generally speaking, at least.

By the way, I hope it's understood I'm just thinking out loud, the last thing I would want is to see stuff get removed from lists because of what may seem like a criticism. I'm "just saying". I mean, of course books from various places are harder to come by and it's better to have people read something than nothing. I was simply wondering what is meant to set this "classic in their countries" thread apart from others in a group that already has reading from "other" places as its main purpose.

Also--and this opens a whole other aspect regarding development, colonialisms and whatnot--I'm not saying that there exist and we should identify "the Dante", "the Shakespeare", "the Goethe" etc. in every country from Abkhazia to Zimbabwe. (As I quoted before, Ralph Wiley to Saul Bellow's patronising query: "Tolstoy is the Tolstoy of the Zulus.") Not everyone started writing down "literature" at the same time; not everyone's traditions had the good fortune to survive, to be cared for, to develop, and not everyone's "canon" has the same categories.

My own outlook is limited and Eurocentric. If asked what is a classic, my mind first goes the stodgy route--a classic is old, reverberates (or did) through a culture within which it was or is taught, to generations. Classic authors are dead (the longer dead the more classic ;)). Exceptions are few--maybe a case like Harper Lee's; at any rate, it helps to determine the "classic" status if their work starts being taught in school while they are alive. (But that wouldn't be a sufficient factor, imo, especially in countries like the US where the system isn't centralised and the curricula change often.)

This is a conservative standard but then the notion of "classic" itself is conservative, supposedly encapsulating something of lasting importance.

>23 arubabookwoman:

Lovely quote, Borges is wonderful on this kind of stuff.

>24 LolaWalser: My rant was solely aimed at the small-mindedness, disingenuousness and jingoism displayed in a list of works that all come from from the list-maker's own country and/or culture, with a handful of books from other European countries as a fig leaf, when the list is framed as universal (ie, valid in the whole world).

not everyone's "canon" has the same categories
True. Actually, this is one of the reasons why I'm trying to read more poetry this year - because there are cultures where poetry is or was the main literary genre. And it shares common ground with a good chunk of oral literature.

Going back to the talk about canonical authors, a good (and easy but incomplete of course) start would be banknotes. If they’re writers and their pictures are – or were - on a banknote, they’re in the canon. So:
UK: Charles Dickens, Jane Austen, Shakespeare
France: Blaise Pascal René Descartes, Pierre Corneille, Montesquieu, Chateaubriand, Victor Hugo, Voltaire
Mexico: Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz
Hungary : Endre Ady, Sándor Petőfi
Slovenia: France Prešeren, Ivan Cankar
Kyrgyzstan: Sayakbay Karalaev
Etc.

Etc. Actually, I was doing it the hard way (memory and googling separate currencies), but Wikipedia has this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_on_banknotes

>25 Dilara86:

Ha, so ingenious! Obviously won't give an exhaustive list (and you can bet any women are more likely to be neglected--good for you, Mexico!), but a good start and does frontally answer the question of "who's your classic".

The Mediterranean Theme seems to have generated plenty of interest - still a few weeks left if you want to read another book before it ends...

As we’re coming up to the end of Q1, though, it’s probably time to start thinking about the next quarterly theme read (cf. >5 thorold:).

We probably don’t want two regional themes next to each other, so Mitteleuropa will be Q3 or Q4, and that leaves us with either Speculative Fiction or Turning the Tables for Q2. @Dilara86 has already volunteered to moderate Speculative Fiction, but we don’t have a volunteer yet for the other one.

Any preferences as to which one we take next? Any volunteers for the still unassigned themes...?

refresh my memory - whas Turning the Tables about?

>28 cindydavid4: Turning the tables - “to have a look at what writers from postcolonial countries have to say about their former colonisers - Latin American writers on Spain and the US, North African writers on France, South Asian and Caribbean writers on the UK, etc.”

ah, ok then, thanks

>30 cindydavid4: So, are you interested? ;)

Shall we do Speculative Fiction from around the World next, then? That'll leave more time for others to think about coming forward.

>31 Dilara86: ah, no, sorry, just curious (title had me think of an Adele song knew that couldnt be right) Too much on my plate just now. :)

Bumping this thread to give more people a chance to chime in.

The theme for next quarter hasn't been officially confirmed yet, but unless someone says something in the next four days, I guess it'll be Speculative Fiction from around the World... So, I've started preparing and created a list - it'll come in handy whether we start on this theme now or later. Feel free to add to it.

Thanks for this list. It certainly makes me feel a lot more comfortable with the topic as it gives me a better idea of what it is. There are books on the list I have read, and books I have on the TBR pile(s), as well as book with which I am unfamiliar. I think the speculative part of the title was making me somewhat apprehensive.

>33 Dilara86: >34 SassyLassy:

Yes, I think we should go ahead with Speculative Fiction in Q2, especially as no-one else seems to be willing to stick their head over the parapet. Thanks for being willing to take it on, and for making the list. I also tend to think of Speculative Fiction as something I know nothing about, but I see a few familiar names on the list (mostly from the magic realism side of things), so at least there’s a starting point...

Ok now I am confused. To me, speculative Fiction are books that look at 'what if' in regards to history. Ive read many on that list, most that I consider sci fi or fantasy. Doesn't matter the label, just curious what those books have in common. I think I need to refresh my knowledge of the topic first before I delve in

>36 cindydavid4: I would define it as fiction that looks at "what if" in a more general sense.
Fantasy: What if we lived in another world where things worked differently (eg. one where magic was real), what migt happen there?
Sci Fi: What if we lived in the future and things worked differently, what might happen then?

Of course much Fantasy and Sci Fi primarily use their setting as a backdrop, but they both at least have the potential to speculate about life in worlds/times not limited by the constraints of our own.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculative_fiction

Looks as though people have been arguing about what the term means ever since it was first coined. I think that bodes well for an interesting discussion!

The new Speculative fiction thread is up and running!

>39 Dilara86: I'm not seeing it on the group cover page, however.

>40 rocketjk: Sorry - my fault! I've added it now.

Oi, you lot--I subscribe to Two Lines Press & so receive their new books. For the first time, and to a ridiculous measure of disappointment, I can tell that the most recent one isn't for various reasons my cup of tea; I feel perfectly sure that I'd give it up after 50 pp to move on to something more appealing. It looks like a well-written novel that could well be absorbing to someone with different tastes, though. https://www.catranslation.org/shop/book/beyond-babylon/

Anyone find themselves thinking, Oh yes please gimme? If so, I'll post it on to you.

I just created a thread in the Booker Prize group dedicated to this year's Man Booker International Prize, which changed its format in 2016 from a biennial award given to an author's body of work to a prize given to the best work of fiction that was translated into English and was published in the UK, and replaced the Independent Foreign Fiction Prize:

https://www.librarything.com/topic/306761

I intend to read the entire six book shortlist by May 21st, the date of the award ceremony.

Just a quick reminder that we're heading for the end of Q2, so it will shortly be time for a new theme read to take over from the very interesting Speculative Fiction theme hosted by @Dilara86

Do we have any volunteers to get the new theme going?

The topics still open are:

Mitteleuropa - roughly defined as Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic/Slovakia, Austria - through all the various incarnations of those countries

Turning the Tables: Postcolonial Writers on the Colonizers

>44 thorold: Predictably, I was all but overwhelmed by the trampling feet of potential volunteers heading for the nearest exit...

We have one person who has offered (provisionally) to help with Mitteleuropa in Q4 - Thank you!
I'm happy to do another, so I've set up the thread for Q3 (still under construction) here already: https://www.librarything.com/topic/308606
I'll be travelling for a good part of July, so activity might be a bit sporadic at first.

If anyone else is willing to help with moderating either of these theme reads, please let me know via a private message.

I've started a thread for Q4. I apologize for the slightly delayed introduction to the topic -- things have been busy and time got away from me a bit. I won't manage to finish putting up author lists for the individual countries today, but in case anyone has been impatiently waiting for this theme to get started, you all are welcome to jump in and start discussing!

>46 spiphany: Thanks! I'm looking forward to it.

The new thread is here: https://www.librarything.com/topic/311773

I've updated the group page.

PS: it will be time to start thinking about the themes you're going to nominate for 2020 soon. Before you buy the Christmas tree...

The 2020 theme reads planning thread is up and ready for your input. All suggestions welcome...

http://www.librarything.com/topic/313366

>48 thorold: Well, it looks as though there isn't going to be a contested ballot this year, unless we get a late entrant with a very good excuse.

The themes proposed for 2020 are:
- "Fascism is back" - the recent rise of right-wing populism around the world
- "Russians Write Revolutions" - fiction about the revolutionary period in Russia, roughly 1881-1922
- "Writing from Southern Africa"

Exercising my undemocratic chairperson's power, I've added a fourth one:
- "Travelling the TBR 2.0"

As usual, volunteers for moderating the themes would be most welcome. In practice the only real work involved is to write an introduction to launch the discussion and give people a few starting points. Please send me a message if you'd like to help. The people who proposed the themes have already received prods to volunteer, but there's no obligation...

I already told Mark this but I think there's no harm in repeating it here--I'd be delighted if someone else wanted to "drive" the fascism theme, so, please, if it tickles anyone's fancy, please don't hesitate to pick it up!

I'm happy to be the "worst case scenario" option--let's hope someone who hasn't killed all her LT projects so far steps in before that!

>49 thorold:

In what order would you like to have them done?

>51 LolaWalser: I can’t think of any intrinsic reason for a particular order, except perhaps for your comment that it would be nice to give the fascism theme a bit of extra time. The first person who volunteers to run a theme gets to pick a slot!

>52 thorold:

Ha, yes--"nice" not being exactly the word... :)

You know what--this is embarrassing given the appeal in >50 LolaWalser: only yesterday, but what the hey--you are right and I was right, the global revival of fascism is serious enough to warrant as much attention as possible, so yes--let's do away with the suspense, I volunteer to start the new year with that theme. That way it can stay open the longest and--I hope--pick up maximum interest and continuing contributions. All the more so given that the activity in the group, as is true for LT Talk in general, has dwindled in comparison to early years.

Does that seem reasonable?

double post

>53 LolaWalser: Great! Thank you. In the meantime I’ve also had an offer from @SassyLassy to do the Russian theme in Q4. I’m happy to do Southern Africa in Q2, so we can have the low- maintenance TBR theme in the summer.

If anyone else wants to help running the themes, I’m sure all three of us would be very happy to hear from you!

I did not take part in the discussions (too little free time, not enough spare brain cells!), but I'm looking forward to next year's theme reads all the same!