Pricing for leather-bound books. How does it work?
Talk Folio Society Devotees
Join LibraryThing to post.
This topic is currently marked as "dormant"—the last message is more than 90 days old. You can revive it by posting a reply.
1HarpsichordKnight
As I slowly learn more about the exciting world of fine books, there is one part I still feel utterly clueless on.
How leather pricing works.
Naturally, I like the idea of getting a nice Folio Society edition bound on leather. But I just don't understand why it's such a jump up in price in some cases. For example, the leather-bound edition of the Prophet is GBP 200 instead of GBP 40.
Confusingly, the seemingly much better produced Letterpress Shakespeare is 'only' GBP 300, and often appears on sales at GBP 200. The leather binding also sounds better: "Hand-bound in goatskin leather." Other examples on the Folio website also seem quite arbitrary.
Looking at other Fine Press examples only makes it more confusing. This Agatha Christie Kickstarter charged around USD 200 for a half-cloth edition, leaping up to USD 1,000 for half leather (though USD 600 for early birds), and then vaulting to USD 1500 for full leather.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1421716661/death-on-the-nile?ref=be5lwq
I'm sure that comparing to other leather items like shoes, clothing or bags is unhelpful, as presumably with book binding a fair amount of the price is in the technique and general craftsmanship.
Does anyone have a useful rule of the thumb for what leather-bound books 'should' cost? Just understanding your thought processes would be valuable.
How leather pricing works.
Naturally, I like the idea of getting a nice Folio Society edition bound on leather. But I just don't understand why it's such a jump up in price in some cases. For example, the leather-bound edition of the Prophet is GBP 200 instead of GBP 40.
Confusingly, the seemingly much better produced Letterpress Shakespeare is 'only' GBP 300, and often appears on sales at GBP 200. The leather binding also sounds better: "Hand-bound in goatskin leather." Other examples on the Folio website also seem quite arbitrary.
Looking at other Fine Press examples only makes it more confusing. This Agatha Christie Kickstarter charged around USD 200 for a half-cloth edition, leaping up to USD 1,000 for half leather (though USD 600 for early birds), and then vaulting to USD 1500 for full leather.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1421716661/death-on-the-nile?ref=be5lwq
I'm sure that comparing to other leather items like shoes, clothing or bags is unhelpful, as presumably with book binding a fair amount of the price is in the technique and general craftsmanship.
Does anyone have a useful rule of the thumb for what leather-bound books 'should' cost? Just understanding your thought processes would be valuable.
2terebinth
>1 HarpsichordKnight: Does anyone have a useful rule of the thumb for what leather-bound books 'should' cost?
Often much of what the customer is buying is exclusivity, a very difficult quantity to which to attach an appropriate price: and there are endless gradations in the quality of leather bindings - the material and the craftsmanship - even without extending consideration to bonded (minced-up and plasticised) "leather".
So, no rule of thumb from me, except that for instance if a trade edition amounting to thousands of copies is accompanied by a leather-bound one, the leather one will cost more if it's limited to 50 copies than if there are 500, and more still if it's limited to 5, without there necessarily being any change in quality. In each case it's very likely that the leather-bound copies will be priced at a level to subsidise the publication as a whole, or to contribute disproportionately to profits.
Often much of what the customer is buying is exclusivity, a very difficult quantity to which to attach an appropriate price: and there are endless gradations in the quality of leather bindings - the material and the craftsmanship - even without extending consideration to bonded (minced-up and plasticised) "leather".
So, no rule of thumb from me, except that for instance if a trade edition amounting to thousands of copies is accompanied by a leather-bound one, the leather one will cost more if it's limited to 50 copies than if there are 500, and more still if it's limited to 5, without there necessarily being any change in quality. In each case it's very likely that the leather-bound copies will be priced at a level to subsidise the publication as a whole, or to contribute disproportionately to profits.
3Glacierman
Bookbinding leather is quite expensive and obviously, the higher the quality, the higher the price. Also, the type of leather effects the price. Quality goatskin runs ±$32/sq.ft. Of course, the skill of the binder (if hand bound) is a large part of the final price. Also, the fancier the binding, the higher the cost; lots of gold tooling will up the price, one with little or no tooling is much cheaper.
Mass produced leather bindings seem to primarily depend on the size of the edition (as terebinth mentioned above), as the leather used will likely not be top quality (to keep the cost down). The size of the book also has a direct effect on the sales price; big books cost more.
Basically, leather-bound books should cost what the publisher or binder prices them at, and the final determinant is what you are willing to pay for the perceived value.
Mass produced leather bindings seem to primarily depend on the size of the edition (as terebinth mentioned above), as the leather used will likely not be top quality (to keep the cost down). The size of the book also has a direct effect on the sales price; big books cost more.
Basically, leather-bound books should cost what the publisher or binder prices them at, and the final determinant is what you are willing to pay for the perceived value.
4dlphcoracl
>1 HarpsichordKnight:
1. Are you talking about new fine & private press editions or books that were previously published?
2. Are you talking about original bindings, rebindings, or both?
One additional note: The prices Thornwillow Press charges for their half leather/paste paper over boards and full morocco leather binding editions after the Early Bird discounted editions have been fully subscribed are ridiculous and are not the norm. You should never pay those prices if you are unable to reserve an Early Bird book with discounted price.
1. Are you talking about new fine & private press editions or books that were previously published?
2. Are you talking about original bindings, rebindings, or both?
One additional note: The prices Thornwillow Press charges for their half leather/paste paper over boards and full morocco leather binding editions after the Early Bird discounted editions have been fully subscribed are ridiculous and are not the norm. You should never pay those prices if you are unable to reserve an Early Bird book with discounted price.
5ubiquitousuk
You should bear in mind that when a leather and conventional binding of the same book are available, the market is essentially segmented into everyday consumers and connoisseurs. It is natural that the seller will charge more to the group that identifies as having a high willingness to pay by self-selecting into the luxury version. They call this second degree price discrimination and it's once reason why the difference in price can be much larger than the difference in production cost.
6HarpsichordKnight
Thanks for the replies everyone, that's already a lot clearer.
As terebinth and ubiquititousuk point out, the exclusivity attached to many fine press editions, where the deluxe leather version has a very low limitation means that the prices can be very high. Guess I will be staying away from any of those in the near future.
>4 dlphcoracl:
"1. Are you talking about new fine & private press editions or books that were previously published?"
New fine & private press editions.
"2. Are you talking about original bindings, rebindings, or both?"
I was talking about original bindings. I assumed that as rebinding would be one-off, they would be too pricey to make sense unless you have books valued at GBP 1,000+. E.g, I guess buying the non-LE version of Mort and getting it rebound in leather wouldn't be the cost saver one might hope. Though do correct me if I'm wrong and it can be done well and cheaply :)
My remaining question then, is how much extra should one expect to pay for leather bindings for fine books without very low limitations, or other factors hugely driving up price?
For example, is the extra GBP 160 charged for the Prophet leather-bound edition reasonable? Are the Letterpress Shakespeare a good deal?
On closer review, I realise they are half-bound, but apparently in better quality. Is goatskin normally better? Does it help that it's a Nigerian goat?
As terebinth and ubiquititousuk point out, the exclusivity attached to many fine press editions, where the deluxe leather version has a very low limitation means that the prices can be very high. Guess I will be staying away from any of those in the near future.
>4 dlphcoracl:
"1. Are you talking about new fine & private press editions or books that were previously published?"
New fine & private press editions.
"2. Are you talking about original bindings, rebindings, or both?"
I was talking about original bindings. I assumed that as rebinding would be one-off, they would be too pricey to make sense unless you have books valued at GBP 1,000+. E.g, I guess buying the non-LE version of Mort and getting it rebound in leather wouldn't be the cost saver one might hope. Though do correct me if I'm wrong and it can be done well and cheaply :)
My remaining question then, is how much extra should one expect to pay for leather bindings for fine books without very low limitations, or other factors hugely driving up price?
For example, is the extra GBP 160 charged for the Prophet leather-bound edition reasonable? Are the Letterpress Shakespeare a good deal?
On closer review, I realise they are half-bound, but apparently in better quality. Is goatskin normally better? Does it help that it's a Nigerian goat?
7dlphcoracl
>6 HarpsichordKnight:
For new fine and private press books, the cost of a leather binding over the alternatives will depend on the quality of the leather and who/where the leather binding is made. The finest leather bindings are made of Nigerian goatskin (often called morocco) from one of the premium leather bookbinding suppliers, e.g., Russell's Oasis goatskin leather or Harmatan goatskin, both of the U.K., or from a fine calfskin leather, often from Hewit (U.K.).
Fine binders or binderies include: Gray Parrot (USA), Amy Borezo (USA), Booklab II/Craig Jensen (USA), Harcourt Bindery (USA), Sangorski & Sutcliffe and Zaehnsdorf (now both incorporated into Shepherds Bookbinders of the U.K.), George Bayntun (U.K.), Smith Settle (U.K.) and Brockman Bookbinders (U.K.)
Expect a full morocco leather binding from one of these binders/binderies to add about $800 to $1,200. to the cost of a new edition.
Incidentally, the prices of older fine & private press books that have been rebound in the manner described above rarely reflect the cost of the leather rebinding in the secondary market and they often represent a considerable bargain in this regard. In essence, a knowledgeable book collector has commissioned a fine morocco or calfskin binding from one of the top tier binderies and he or she is assuming a substantial portion of the cost for you. This is especially true of leather bindings that are not elaborately designed with inlay, gilt designs, etc. That is why I specifically asked whether you were "talking about new fine & private press editions or books that were previously published". In general, you should NOT pay anywhere near the $800 to $1,000. premium for an older book with full morocco or calfskin binding, even those crafted at the finest binderies.
For new fine and private press books, the cost of a leather binding over the alternatives will depend on the quality of the leather and who/where the leather binding is made. The finest leather bindings are made of Nigerian goatskin (often called morocco) from one of the premium leather bookbinding suppliers, e.g., Russell's Oasis goatskin leather or Harmatan goatskin, both of the U.K., or from a fine calfskin leather, often from Hewit (U.K.).
Fine binders or binderies include: Gray Parrot (USA), Amy Borezo (USA), Booklab II/Craig Jensen (USA), Harcourt Bindery (USA), Sangorski & Sutcliffe and Zaehnsdorf (now both incorporated into Shepherds Bookbinders of the U.K.), George Bayntun (U.K.), Smith Settle (U.K.) and Brockman Bookbinders (U.K.)
Expect a full morocco leather binding from one of these binders/binderies to add about $800 to $1,200. to the cost of a new edition.
Incidentally, the prices of older fine & private press books that have been rebound in the manner described above rarely reflect the cost of the leather rebinding in the secondary market and they often represent a considerable bargain in this regard. In essence, a knowledgeable book collector has commissioned a fine morocco or calfskin binding from one of the top tier binderies and he or she is assuming a substantial portion of the cost for you. This is especially true of leather bindings that are not elaborately designed with inlay, gilt designs, etc. That is why I specifically asked whether you were "talking about new fine & private press editions or books that were previously published". In general, you should NOT pay anywhere near the $800 to $1,000. premium for an older book with full morocco or calfskin binding, even those crafted at the finest binderies.
8HarpsichordKnight
>7 dlphcoracl: Thanks for the very clear and detailed explanation, that's really helpful, and particularly fascinating about the bargains for rebound books on the secondary market.
9dlphcoracl
>8 HarpsichordKnight:
Remarkably, you will often pay little additional cost in the secondary market for an older private press book that reflects the Arts of the Book (fine letterpress printing, high quality hand made papers, wonderful illustrations, etc.) that has been rebound in full morocco (Nigerian goatskin) by an outstanding bindery in the U.K.
Remarkably, you will often pay little additional cost in the secondary market for an older private press book that reflects the Arts of the Book (fine letterpress printing, high quality hand made papers, wonderful illustrations, etc.) that has been rebound in full morocco (Nigerian goatskin) by an outstanding bindery in the U.K.
