SusanJ's 75 Books Challenge - Thread 1

Hello, and welcome to my first thread for the new decade.

I'm Susan, a Kiwi living in London for the past 25 years. During the working week I'm a lawyer so I love nerdy legal stuff, which crops up in more books than you might expect.

I read lots of NF, and I particularly like history and things from the 300s in the Dewey system.

While I read mostly from the library, I do have a fair few books that I've bought (mostly for the Kindle) and I need to keep my eye on those so that I actually read them instead of just accumulating them. Every year I give up reserving or randomly borrowing library books during November (which is renamed "No!vember") but I could do better. Much better.

January

1. A Mercy by Toni Morrison
2. Imperial Twilight by Stephen Platt
3. Chances Are by Richard Russo
4. With Child by Andy Martin
5. Saint Peter's Fair by Ellis Peters
6. Persona Non Grata by Ruth Downie
7. The Prodigal Tongue by Lynne Murphy

I have quite a few series on the go, so in this post I'm going to list them so that I don't forget where I'm up to. Reading in order is important to me :-)

Series I have started and still have squillions to go *happy sigh*

I'm going to list these in date order, because why not?

Steven Saylor's Gordianus the Finder (about 100 BC)

Roman Blood
Arms of Nemesis
Catilina's Riddle

Ruth Downie's Medicus (Britannia, 108)

Medicus
Terra Incognita
Persona Non Grata

Priscilla Royal's Eleanor, Prioress of Tyndal (East Anglia, 11th century)

Wine of Violence

Ellis Peters' Cadfael (Shropshire, 1135 - 1145)

A Morbid Taste for Bones
One Corpse Too Many
Monk's Hood
Saint Peter's Fair

Bernard Knight's Crowner John (Devon, 1190s)

The Sanctuary Seeker
The Poisoned Chalice
Crowner's Quest
The Awful Secret

Susanna Gregory's Matthew Bartholomew (Cambridge, 1348)

A Plague On Both Your Houses
An Unholy Alliance

Cassandra Clark's Abbess of Meaux (Yorkshire, 1380s)

Hangman Blind
The Red Velvet Turnshoe
The Law of Angels
A Parliament of Spies

Shona Maclean's Alexander Seaton (1620s)

The Redemption of Alexander Seaton

Philippa Gregory's Fairmile series

Tidelands

Katie Griffin's Kitty Peck (1880s)

Kitty Peck and the Music Hall Murders

Michael Pearce's Mamur Zapt (Egypt, 1908)

The Mamur Zapt and the Return of the Carpet

Barbara Cleverly's Joe Sandilands

The Last Kashmiri Rose

Patricia Wentworth's Miss Silver (England, 1920s/1930s)

Grey Mask
The Case is Closed

John D. MacDonald's Travis McGee

The Deep Blue Goodbye

Mal Sjowall's Martin Beck

Roseanna

John Sandford's Lucas Davenport

Rules of Prey

Michael Connelly's Harry Bosch

The Black Echo

John Harvey's Charlie Resnick

Lonely Hearts
Rough Treatment
Cutting Edge

Faye Kellerman's Peter Decker and Rina Lazarus

The Ritual Bath
Sacred and Profane

Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child's Agent Pendergast

Relic
Reliquary

Steve Berry's Cotton Malone

The Templar Legacy
The Alexandria Link

Scott Mariani's Ben Hope

The Alchemist's Secret

Harry Bingham's Fiona Griffiths

Talking to the Dead
Love Story, With Murders

Mari Hannah's Kate Daniels

The Murder Wall

Karin Slaughter's Sara Linton

Blindsighted

Karin Slaughter's Will Trent

Triptych
Fractured

Paul Cleave's Christchurch Murders

The Cleaner

Stuart MacBride's Logan McRae

Cold Granite
Dying Light
Broken Skin
Flesh House
Blind Eye
Dark Blood

Annie Hauxwell's Catherine Berlin

In Her Blood
A Bitter Taste

Cara Hunter's DI Adam Fawley

Close to Home
In The Dark

Jane Casey's Maeve Kerrigan

The Burning
The Reckoning

Angela Marsons' DI Kim Stone

Silent Scream

Lesley Thomson's Stella Darnell

The Detective's Daughter

Manda Scott's Ines Picaut

Into the Fire

Susan Mallery's Mischief Bay

The Girls of Mischief Bay

Series I'm caught up with and waiting for the next one *tapping foot*

Lee Child's Jack Reacher, obvs
C J Box's Joe Pickett
Daniel Silva's Gabriel Allon
Elly Griffiths' Dr Ruth Galloway
Vaseem Khan's Baby Ganesh Agency
Abir Mukherjee's Sam Wyndham
Lynne Truss's Constable Twitten
Anthony Horowitz's Daniel Hawthorne
Attica Locke's Highway 59

Not really a series but I need to keep track of my Dick Francis finishes (Hi Julia!)

Proof
Nerve
Forfeit
Reflex
Rat Race

Welcome!

Happy new one Susan! Looking forward to 2020.

>5 charl08: Thanks Charlotte!

Welcome back!

>7 drneutron: Thanks Jim!

Happy new year! Glad to see you back for 2020!

Aha! This is where you are, you can't escape me (said in good panto villain tones). Looking forward to seeing what 2020 has to offer.

Starred!

Cheers to another year of books and chatter, Susan :)

Found you and dropped a star :) Here's to a great 2020 reading year.

Dropping a star, Susan; I see we have an obsession um, I mean an interest in mysteries. I’m looking forward to swapping notes.

Dropping my star to follow along with your reads!

Hi Susan, I'm here to read your stories!

Dropping my star to follow along! I love seeing all the different series you are reading. I too have many series and prefer to read them in order.

Ooh, you have all your tickers set up already! I have to get on that soon. Looking forward to following your thread in 2020, Susan, and catching many a BB that isn't out here yet.

>9 cbl_tn: Hi Carrie! Lovely to see you too. I'm already planning what to read first in 2020 :-)

>10 Helenliz: Helen, yes, you've found me! Stay tuned for all the excitement.*

*Just kidding. There will be no excitement.

>11 katiekrug: Hi Katie! I must track you down**

**Not in a scary way.

>12 RebaRelishesReading: Thanks Reba! I'm hoping 2020 will be a good one. I'm not doing any challenges as I have enough of a challenge with all the stuff I have already :-)

>13 Matke: Hello Gail, and welcome! I do love a good series :-)

>14 thornton37814: Thanks Lori! Great to see you again.

>15 DianaNL: Hi Diana! It is lovely to see you posting again :-)

>16 crazy4reading: Hi Monica! I had to set up the series post to keep track of everything, and so far it's working well.

>17 Familyhistorian: Hi Meg! I took a deep breath yesterday and did the trackers. I think the trick is not to click on "Configure a new ticker" as that seems to turn all the tickers into the same thing (at least when I do it). Instead, I click the "Ticker factory" logo for each new one, and then they all seem to stay separate. I was very relieved when they all turned out different, although I did check a few times to make sure :-)

I think I'll start Modern Ireland: 1600 - 1972 on New Year's Day, and a novel of some sort, maybe from the Kindle. That will be two books from Mount TBR :-)

Good luck with Mt. TBR! I'm hoping to make some progress there myself.

Starred you Susan!

I'm with you again, Susan. Looking to add to my collection of you-recommended books. The Dinosaur Hunters is next up in the new year. And I promise, promise, promise I'll be better at keeping up with you.

Dropping in a star - and hoping to be able to actually visit threads (unlike my Q3+4 funk of 2019!). Hope you have a Happy New year :)

Best wishes for 2020!

>19 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, I'm always trying :-) But it's like there's some sort of sabotage going on...

>20 SandDune: Hi Rhian! Welcome!

>21 Fourpawz2: Hi Charlotte! Lovely to see you for another decade (see how I committed you to visiting my thread till 2029?). I will try and read recommendation-worthy things.

>22 BekkaJo: Thanks Bekka! Happy New Year to you too!

>23 DianaNL: Thanks Diana! Best wishes to you too :-)

I'm finishing up book 200 for 2019, so I'm still updating my old thread, but I will definitely be back tomorrow :-)

Another resolution is to keep up in 2020 with all my friends on LT. Happy New Year!

Happy reading in 2020, Susan!

>25 PaulCranswick: Thanks Paul - Happy New Year to you too.

>26 Ameise1: Hi Barbara! Thank you - Happy New Year to you too, and many exciting books :-)

>27 FAMeulstee: Thanks Anita!

I read 200 books last year, and I'd like to do the same in 2020. I'll be starting today by:

- Reading some more of Imperial Twilight, which I started a couple of days ago;

- Starting Chances Are, the new novel by Richard Russo which I picked up at the library because it was new and clean. I've never read anything by Russo before;

- Continuing with Through A Glass Darkly, which I read gazillions of years ago but bought again when Charlotte (Fourpawz2) read it and enjoyed it. So far it's holding up to my memory of it as a good read;

- Reading the prologue of Modern Ireland, which was a gift from Booky Work Friend.

The touchstones aren't working, so I might have to correct them later if they do.

Imperial Twilight is a great read. It starts with the visit of the first (intended) British ambassador to China in 1796, Lord Macartney. Macartney travelled with two ships full of people and gifts for the emperor, but the gifts were a problem.

Macartney continued to worry about the gifts. As they travelled north, Mr Plumb told him that in Tianjin there had been a report that the British were bringing along several magical gifts for the emperor. Among them were supposedly an enchanted pillow that could transport you to faraway countries in your sleep, a living elephant the size of a cat, a songbird as big as a chicken that could eat six bushels of charcoal a day, and several twelve-inch-tall men "in form and intellect as perfect as grenadiers". The imaginary gifts may have sounded more marvellous to Chinese ears than planetaria and lenses, and Macartney tried to laugh off the report, but it did risk the emperor's disappointment if he should look in vain among Macartney's crates for the little men and enchanted pillow that were promised.

>29 susanj67: Just the enchanted pillow for me, please. The elephant, songbird, and tiny men would require too much looking after. ;-)

Happy New Year, Susan. I look forward to another year of following your reading.

Wishing you a wonderful 2020 Susan!

>24 susanj67: -Clever girl, Susan! Consider me roped in.

>29 susanj67: - The Enchanted Pillow sounds lovely, but I wouldn't mind having the itty bitty elephant for Jane. However, if she hated it I would be obliged to re-gift it.

>30 cbl_tn: Hi Carrie! Yes, I liked the sound of the pillow too :-)

>31 BLBera: Thanks Beth! I will also be following along with you (and Scout).

>32 RebaRelishesReading: Thanks Reba - you too!

>33 Fourpawz2: Charlotte, OK, you can't unstar me till 2030. Ooh. That sounds like a date from sci-fi, but it will be here before we know it.

I've read everything that I planned to today, and watched an episode of Bloodline on Netflix and the first two episodes of Messiah, which looks very promising. It's not clear at this stage whether the stranger *is* the Messiah or just a very naughty boy (yes, I ripped that off from the Guardian review). Now that I have Prime I am in the slightly ridiculous first-world situation of having Too Much Choice (and I'm not great with choices) so I'm going to watch Netflix on odd-numbered days and Prime on even-numbered days. That gives me a few more Netflix days because of the 31sts, but there is more that I want to see on Netflix, so that works. As for stuff on the iPlayer and other catch-up hubs, well, good luck to me.

I've also done a fair bit of book-review reading and looking things up in the library catalogue to wishlist them, so I feel pretty efficient. I even went through my wishlists and deleted a few things that I'd found without reserving them. And I was reminded of quite a few good China books that I wishlisted a while ago and want to get to this year.

Back to work tomorrow - 7.30 will be here too soon.

>34 susanj67: That does sound very efficient, Susan. The 2nd does seem (again) to have come round very quickly!

Hi Susan.
I'm new on your thread. Thanks for dropping by mine... we have lots of similar interests. I was especially chuffed to little mint balls seeing your series (at https://www.librarything.com/topic/314350#7003279). The really ancient ones attract me a lot.

Have you tried the Queen's Thief series, by Megan Whalen Turner? Pretty good writing with a beguiling thief as the sometime protagonist. I'm waiting on Book #6 arriving at the Public Library, Return of the Thief.

I read some Mamur of Egypt books years ago (pre-LT). They were really good, so I'm hoping to rediscover them via your library (e.g. The Mamur Zapt and the Return of the Carpet). I couldn't recall any titles or who wrote them.

Looks like the LT servers are swamped because no touchstones are working. I'll be back to chatter another evening.

>35 charl08: Charlotte, OMG isn't it EARLY?! I can hardly believe I'm here. But I do have a coffee from the machine. I thought about going over to the other side of the floor for the fancy beans, but in the end I couldn't be bothered. So I only have the semi-fancy beans. Thank goodness it's the weekend in two days :-)

>36 SandyAMcPherson: Hi Sandy! It is possible that my series are getting a bit out of control. I may need more discipline, but the people here are *terrible* for the book bullets :-) I haven't tried Megan Whalen Turner but, looking her up, she doesn't seem to be that widely available here. The elibrary has books 4 and 5 of the series you mentioned (but nothing else) and the hard copy library has two copies of The Thief and one of The Queen of Attolia, in a collection of 4 million books. Even Amazon UK only has one available for Kindle, and that's a German version of The Thief. So strange! Of course now I want to read them :-) My elibrary (which is Overdrive) has the complete set of the Mamur Zapt, so if you have elibrary access you might find them in yours too.

The library reopens today, so I'll return two books at lunchtime and try not to take anything out. Eek.

No, it's not just you. I'm struggling with the whole having to be awake thing. But a short week to ease one in gently is better than going for a full week straight off.
Yawn.

I'm awake... honest...

I was actually at work before I could get in this morning - which is rather galling. Standing outside in the dark at 7 looking miserable!

*bangs head against wall* MUST renew the library books...

>38 Helenliz: Helen, I'm still awake, so that's something :-)

>39 BekkaJo: Bekka, we can do it!!! 7am is a terribly early start, though!

I returned two library books and took nothing out. *proud*. Of course, this is their first day open, so there's nothing new to look at. I have just borrowed A Mercy from the elibrary, because I thought I'd try the library's book club, but for me it was a very restrained visit overall :-)

Hi Susan! Lovely to find your thread as I slowly work my way through the group. No promises that I will make frequent visits but wanted to wave "Hi" while I have the opportunity to do so. ;-)

>40 susanj67: A Mercy was my first book of Morrison I've read. I liked it. Enjoy the reading.

>41 lkernagh: Hi Lori! Thank you for the wave - I have also found your thread :-)

>42 Ameise1: Barbara, I started it last night and I've nearly read two chapters. I was confused at first but the story is coming together now.

I read two chapters of Imperial Twilight last night and it continues to be excellent. I'm going to look for more by the author.

Happy New Year, Susan!

>43 susanj67: You've almost sold me on your latest China book, Susan!

Happy New Year, Susan! Wow, that's a long list of series you maintain. I did love the Martin Beck when I read them years ago.

>44 ronincats: Thank you, Roni! I am coming to find you :-)

>45 charl08: Charlotte, it's really very good! I'm hoping for lots more progress this weekend.

>46 ffortsa: Hi Judy! I think I need to intensify some of the series reading, as the list *is* very long!



1. A Mercy by Toni Morrison

This is the January choice for the library's book club, which I am thinking of joining. Well, I'm not sure "joining" is needed - I think we just show up :-) I haven't read anything by Toni Morrison before, but I loved this. There are multiple narrators and I found it a bit hard to work out what was happening at first, but I got there in the end, and went back to reread a couple of chapters which then made more sense :-)

After a cold day yesterday (not that I really experienced it, being air-conditioned all day) it is sunny today and looks nice outside, so I might get some steps in. I need to go at least as far as the paper shop, but I might do better than that :-)

>47 susanj67: I'm glad to hear that you liked it.
Wishing you a wonderful weekend.

>48 Ameise1: Thanks Barbara - you too!

The China book continues to entertain. Although the British are now widely blamed for selling all the opium into China, in fact American traders had about a fifth of the business by the 1830s. But, unlike the British who simply sailed between India and China, American ships took a more roundabout route, leaving from New York or Boston, sailing down the coast of South America and around Cape Horn, trading goods for seal skins, and then back up the other side to Mexico or Peru to sell more goods for silver.

From Mexico and Peru, the ship could then continue on up the west coast of the North American continent to Oregon, where its crew would trade iron goods and textiles for sea otter pelts. So regular was this route that when Lewis and Clark first reached the mouth of the Columbia River in 1805, they found that the natives could already speak a bit of English thanks to the Canton fur trade (though their vocabulary, according to Lewis, consisted of little more than "musket", "powder", "shot", "knife", "damned rascal" and "son of a bitch" - which gives us about as concise a portrait as can be had of the sailors who engaged in this trade)."

>49 susanj67: - Uh-oh! I smell another you-recommended book coming my way...

I read A Mercy last year and liked it, but didn't love it. It's not among my favorites of Morrison's work, but I'm glad it was a good introduction for you!

Enjoy your sunny day. It's gloomy and damp here, again.

>50 Fourpawz2: Charlotte, yes, I'm going to be recommending this one :-)

>51 katiekrug: Katie, I wondered what to expect because I know that Toni Morrison's work is widely lauded and I worried that I wouldn't "get it", but I want to read more now. I should at least read Beloved. The sun went away and it turned gloomy, but I did make it to the paper shop round the corner.

Mostly, though, I've spent the day reading Imperial Twilight, alternating a chapter or two with housework and not even taking a nap. Goodness. I only have 90 pages to go.

This morning after The Pioneer Woman finished the Food Network had a couple of episodes of Girl Meets Farm, which I half-watched while I was tidying up. The "Girl" in the title lives in the Midwest, and made "hot dish", which was very exciting because I have long wondered what it is. She also made a thing called cookie salad, which I thought seemed nice enough as a dessert, but they ate it *with* the hot dish. That amazed me. It seems that I am easily amazed. Still, she's entertaining to watch. I live in hope that someone on a US food programme will explain what half and half is (half of what? And half of what else?) but so far I *think* (without googling, like it's the olden days) that it's half milk and half single cream. But what sort of milk?

>52 susanj67: Half whole milk and half cream=Half and Half. :)

You should definitely read Beloved, Susan. I read A Mercy 10 years ago and liked it, but I loved Beloved.

Off to add Imperial Twilight to the appropriate you-list.

I have no idea what "hot dish" or "cookie salad" are...

My favorite Morrisons are Sula, The Bluest Eye, and Beloved (though I read the last so long ago - in high school! - that I should re-read it...).

>53 RebaRelishesReading: Thanks Reba! That leads me to another question - when Americans refer to having "cream" with their coffee, do they mean actual cream, or just milk? (I mean the stuff poured into it, not decorations on the top like at Starbucks).

>54 Fourpawz2: Charlotte, right, Beloved is on my list. Actually I think I saw a new and clean copy at the library the other day so I should grab it while I can :-)

>55 katiekrug: Katie, here's a post explaining cookie salad (and Ms Yeh (of Girl Meets Farm) had exactly my reaction when she first heard of it too, which is funny).
http://mynameisyeh.com/mynameisyeh/2017/11/classic-cookie-salad
And this is her hot dish (with a tater tot topping) http://mynameisyeh.com/mynameisyeh/2017/10/classic-tater-tot-hotdish



2. Imperial Twilight: The Opium War and the End of China's Last Golden Age by Stephen Platt

In a word: SUPERB. I raced through this, because it is so well-written, and also perhaps my efforts to concentrate more are paying off (no Twitter, no Daily Mail any more). I read 260 pages of it today alone, which is a lot of a NF book for me. The Opium War is only mentioned right at the very end, so it's not full of military manoeuvres (which was a relief to me). It's more about the relationship between the Chinese government and foreign traders (mainly the British, from the East India Company) in Canton from the mid-1700s to the mid-1800s. The author says it's essential reading for anyone who wants to understand China and its relationship with the West today, and I can see why. This is really, really good.

>52 susanj67: The thing that has always confused me about American cookery is casserole. It seems that American casserole is quite different from what we might call a casserole in the U.K. - I have seen recipes for breakfast casserole for instance - but I have never quite got my head around what constitutes a casserole in U.S. terms.

56. Susan, onto the wishlist it races. Now I have to read this book.

>56 susanj67: - I checked out both links and all I can say is "Hard pass" for both.

I know you asked Reba, but I will butt in re: coffee and cream. In my experience, and I'm sure it's not universal, if people say "cream" in relation to coffee, they either mean half-and-half or a creamer, which is a flavored addition in liquid or powder form. I currently use a cinnamon creamer in my coffee. Some people use milk and usually say "milk". I find it too thin for my coffee.

>57 SandDune: - That's interesting, Rhian. I thought that a "hot dish" might just be another name for a casserole, but in reading the link Susan provided, apparently hot dish is a kind of casserole. Who knew? Not this American.

To me, casserole just denotes a one-dish meal that (usually) incorporates a meat and a vegetable in some form. A (in)famous one is tune-noodle casserole which is canned tuna mixed with noodles, cream of mushroom soup, peas, sometimes topped with potato chips (crisps). Don't judge us too harshly :)

>57 SandDune: Rhian, I think there are regional variations to a lot of things, but I agree about the breakfast casserole - it's not a thing here so maybe it got to America via another set of immigrants. It might be Scandinavian (like I think the Christmas cookie-baking is). But I've learned a fair bit watching the Food Network :-)

>58 DianaNL: Hi Diana! I hope you can find it. It's very new, and I saw the new paperback at the library but then found a beautiful hard copy upstairs. It's a lovely book in hard copy, with maps and photos.

>59 katiekrug: Katie, both dishes looked nice on TV, but I couldn't imagine eating them together. I'm sure I once saw the Pioneer Woman doing a Thanksgiving thing that involved pumpkin and marshmallows and I didn't understand that either :-) Thanks for the "cream" answer - I'm sure we don't have half-and-half here, although I have seen powdered creamer, I think.

>60 katiekrug: Um, if we're taking hard passes, I might hand mine out to the tuna-noodle casserole :-)

Hi, Susan - Happy New Reading Year!

>60 katiekrug:

See, I read that, and I understand why "tuna casserole" is a running joke in American sitcoms etc. (Weird Al: "You haven't even touched your tuna casserole!")

My response is always, "But I like tuna casserole!"...but then, my tuna casserole is rather different... :D

>63 lyzard: Hi Liz! Happy New Year to you too! I must come and find your thread.

Have never made or eaten a casserole.

I usually think of them as involving meat, vegetables, perhaps noodles or rice, a can of condensed soup, and a bucket of American Cheese. To me this does not sound appetizing. No one in my family - to my knowledge - has ever made a casserole either. Maybe it’s not a New England thing.

>62 susanj67: - Yes, tuna-noodle casserole is deserving of a hard pass, Susan!

I'm not sure about pumpkin and marshmallow at Thanksgiving, but some people do a sweet potato and marshmallow dish, which sounds revolting to me. But I don't like sweet potatoes to begin with...

>63 lyzard: - Liz - what is yours like? I find this stuff endlessly fascinating :)

>65 Fourpawz2: - I always think of casseroles being more Midwestern and Southern. I only ever had a casserole when my father, who was from Minnesota, would make it. My mother, from NYC, was always very skeptical. I grew up in the Northeast and went to college in New England, and live now in NJ, and casseroles were/are definitely not common.

Happy 2020, Susan!

>66 katiekrug: - Oh good - thanks, Katie, for confirming why I’ve never encountered the dreaded casserole in these parts. It’s not a here thing.

Loving the casserole conversation! For me, a casserole is an opportunity to make a meal out of various items (usually involving leftovers). It doesn't include any condensed soup and I don't make tuna casserole (although, my mom did when I was growing up). My favorite go to is a Tex-Mex casserole that usually consists of chopped left over protein (cooked chicken, beef or whatever found in the fridge) cooked rice and chopped veggies, black beans, tomatoes and simmered in the oven (covered) in a Mexican spiced broth.

Having grown up in the South with parents from the Midwest, casserole is a familiar part of my cuisine. Casseroles are popular at carry in dinners. It’s an easy meal for busy families when both parents work. They often freeze well. It’s a way to stretch meat to feed a large number of people. I don’t often make casseroles myself, though. The recipes make too much for a single person.

>66 katiekrug:

A version of tuna mornay, done with lots of vegetables and rice in a creamy sauce. No noodles, no soup, no chips. :D

>70 cbl_tn:

I make a lot of casseroles for just that reason: one immediate serve and several others into the freezer.

Two books already, Susan! You have a good start to your reading in 2020.

>71 lyzard: - I make a lot of casseroles for just that reason: one immediate serve and several others into the freezer.

Exactly! Leftovers become work lunches for me. ;-)

>56 susanj67:, >59 katiekrug:, >60 katiekrug: Glad to chimed in Katie because I was going to start by saying I don't drink coffee so am not the best person to ask but as far as I know I agree that it can be half & half or creamer (powdered or liquid) but Hubby (who does drink coffee) always uses heavy cream which I think counts as "cream in his coffee" :) I too was wondering what a "hot dish" is thinking it might be literally that like a vegetable dish or casserole or meat that one might take "hot" to a potluck. As to casserole, I agree that it's a one-dish but would add that it might have another protein than meat and still be a casserole. I often make a breakfast casserole if I'm having a group for breakfast or brunch -- eggs, cheese, some veg like mushrooms and/or asparagus, maybe some potatoes or some bread.

>62 susanj67: I don't understand anything with either pumpkin or marshmallows bleh.

After I posted the half & half answer I wondered if you use the term "whole milk" in the U.K.

Casseroles are not a "thing" in New England? Didn't know that, but stew is eaten there, right? and if you did it in the oven it seems to me it's a casserole. no?

>69 lkernagh: YUM!!

btw, I tried to go to the link for cookie salad (OMG what a concept) and now I have a little color wheel rotating on my screen that won't go away but isn't stopping me from doing what ever else I want to do -- strange -- and I still have no idea what a cookie salad is.

>74 RebaRelishesReading: - Yup, stew is a thing here. Wasn't a huge thing in my childhood but that was because my mother made the worst beef stew ever. I suppose it would be a casserole if you cooked it in the oven, but if it's supposed to be stew it gets cooked on the stove and not in the oven.

>56 susanj67: First BB of the year for me.

>56 susanj67: Yes not an entirely blameworthy period of British history. Have you read the books by Amitav Ghosh on the same topic?

Have a lovely Sunday.

For us in Switzerland stew is not the same as casseroles. A stew needs hours to cook whereas a casserole is made quickly with lots of leftovers as vegetables and a bit of pasta and cheese.
Happy Sunday, Susan.

>65 Fourpawz2: Charlotte, I would say a casserole (in NZ terms, anyway) is the meat and vegetables, but the "starch" (noodles, rice etc) would be separate. Although I am now having flashbacks to a "pork'n'pineapple" dish that my mother used to make, and that may have had the noodles already in it. I hated it, so may have blanked it out :-)

>66 katiekrug: Katie, yes, the marshmallows-in- vegetables left me cold :-)

>67 ChelleBearss: Thanks Chelle! You too!

>68 Fourpawz2: Charlotte, :-)

>69 lkernagh: Lori, that does sound good!

>70 cbl_tn: Carrie, they are certainly easy to make in terms of method and amount of dishes. And the slow cookers help, too. We had a "crock pot" (which may be a brand name) but my mother would never leave gadgets running when she was out of the house. But even if you're home all day it's still an easy way of getting something ready without spending ages on it.

>71 lyzard: Liz, yes, they are good for freezing, although I find it helps if you label the container so you're not left puzzling over it in months to come :-)

>72 BLBera: Thanks Beth. I did start Imperial Twilight at the very end of last year but it was a fast read.

>73 lkernagh: Lori, that is often my goal, but you sound much more organised :-)

>74 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, sorry about the whirring wheel thing, but it's a respectable website so it should work in the end :-) If half and half is half whole milk and half heavy cream (which we would call "double cream") then I think it's our equivalent of single cream (which, according to the internet, is known as "light cream" in other places).

>75 Fourpawz2: Charlotte, we called something "stew" if it was cooked on the stovetop too. Stew = simmered, casserole = baked. But then stew needs a lot of stirring so it doesn't catch on the bottom of the saucepan. Hmmm.

>76 Oberon: Erik, I think you will love it.

> 77 Paul, I read Sea of Poppies but the second book wasn't published at that point and I didn't catch up with the series when it was available. That's why I tend to wait until a series is finished, and go crazy :-)

>78 Ameise1: Hi Barbara! That's interesting about the cooking times. In NZ (where cookery was, at least in the 70s, based on British cooking) a stew was quick and a casserole took longer.

All this talk of food is encouraging me to make something :-) But I should get dressed and go out first, and do some steps. Then I want to finish (or at least nearly finish) Chances Are, as it's due back on Thursday and I'll get a "pre-overdue" notice for it (grrr). I'm about 20% of the way through a Cadfael mystery on the Kindle, and I should really read the first chapter of the Ireland book, as I read the prologue n New Year's day and I don't want to forget everything.

I don't understand how anything can be a "salad" that includes biscuits or cream. Mind blown.

I should be picking up leaves (again) but I really am desperate to find out what happens at the end of The Giver of Stars. Worth every one of the gazillion reserves it had in my library system.
(I may exaggerate slightly.)

I just googled the difference between all of the "creams" and found this

Half-and-half contains 12 percent fat
Light cream contains 20 percent fat
Whipping cream contains 35 percent fat
Heavy cream contains 38 percent fat

We don't have "light cream" at our grocery store and I recently had a recipe calling for it. I guessed that adding some heavy cream to some half-and-half would work -- it did so I guess I guessed right.

Iyt's a good thing I've had lunch, this thread would be enough to send me running to the kitchen for somehting to eat (although not a tuna casserole - urgh, sounds awful!). I'm a confirmed casserole cooker, they go in the oven on timer and you come home to a meal ready to eat.
I've never pur rice or noodles in a casserole though, they're usually a mixture of meat, and root vege, cooked for several hours. A stew would be on the hob, a casserole in the oven.

So does the US have an equivalent of skimmed or semi-skimmed milk? It's not often I have milk in coffee, but I'd be asking for semi skimmed if it was an option - whole milk is too rich.

>82 Helenliz: - Yes, we have skim milk, as well as 2% and 1% (which I guess would be semi-skimmed?). I like a creamy coffee, so even whole milk doesn't do it for me.

Not a casserole, exactly, but tonight we are attempting to make a skillet pot pie, which cooks on the stove (hob) for a bit, and then is put in the oven for 30 minutes.

Now I'm hungry... Wonder if I can talk The Wayne into going out for brunch...

>80 charl08: Charlotte, according to the library catalogue, there is a copy of The Giver of Stars *on the shelf* at my closest library branch. I find that a bit hard to believe, but I'll have a look tomorrow :-)

>81 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, all those creams are so confusing! But it seems that half-and-half is the lowest in fat, and not quite the same as single cream. Definitely unknown here, in that case :-)

>82 Helenliz: Helen, yes, I was pretty hungry too :-) I might try a casserole of some sort with leftovers for lunch. I tend to buy lunch every day but I could do better. I do like not knowing what it's going to be until I buy it, though :-)

>83 katiekrug: Katie, the skillet pot pie sounds very good! I hope it works out.

I got a lot of steps in today, but I still think the new Fitbit overcounts. However, I roamed around in the City, partly because I got an email from Superdrug this morning with a quadruple-points offer (January is my loyalty card fake-birthday month) and an ad for the new L'Oreal Botanicals shampoo and conditioner. There's a largeish branch up at St Paul's, so I walked up there and they had a poster in the window of their new products which included the L'Oreal ones. But when I asked where to find it, the girl looked at me like I was nuts and said "*We* don't have it. You'll have to go to another shop." This is the product in their emails *and* on a poster in the window. Of course. British retailing is not off to a stellar start for the new year.
Also out of stock: their retractable kohl eyeliner pencils, which have been out forEVER. Yes, I have bought other kinds but their copper one is excellent, and if I ever see it again I am going to buy five of them. I bought some of their own-brand hand cream (lovely so far) and some foot masks (not the peely ones, because those are gross) but the whereabouts of the shampoo remain a mystery. Most of their City branches are closed on the weekend, so that was my only shot. I am really, really hoping that we get a branch at the Wharf when the Crossrail station opens, as there is a whole floor of shops still to open in there.



3. Chances Are by Richard Russo

Srsly, how have I never read anything by this author before? He's a new favourite. I loved this. It's set on Martha's Vineyard, where three old college friends meet up for a weekend 44 years after the last time they were there, just after college, when a young female friend disappeared without trace. It's excellent.

I'm glad you liked your first Russo, Susan. I haven't read this one yet, but he's a favorite author.

>85 katiekrug: Katie, this is the brand new one, and I'm sure I read somewhere that it's a stand-alone, which implies that some of the others are linked. But, apart from Nobody's Fool and Everybody's Fool, that's not obvious from a quick look. So now (of course) I'm nervous about getting one that's linked to another one if I haven't read the first one. Eek.

>84 susanj67: I've only read on Russo so far The Old Cape Magic and I liked it.
BTW your touchstones lead to a different book.

>84 susanj67: OMG is that a new Russo or the British name for an older one? He is definitely one of my favorite authors. I save his books for when I've read too much war/dystopia/etc. and need to have my soul soothed. He was at Chautauqua in 2018 and in the book signing line I told him that and he seemed to like it. Also seemed like a really nice guy.

Most of his books are linked in that there are characters and setting in common but I've sort of read them as I found them and didn't really think it was a problem (and I DO share your need to read series on order).

and DUH -- I have that one but have been saving it because otherwise I won't have an unread Russo to go to

Other than NF and EF, I can't think of any that are directly linked. You should be safe. NF was a 5-star read for me 2 or so years ago. Empire Falls is my other favorite. And Straight Man is hilarious, but might not "translate" if you're not familiar with US higher education and academia.

>88 RebaRelishesReading: - It's a new one, Reba. Came out in 2019.

>84 susanj67: - Great review! I have only read two Russo books so far: Empire Falls which I can highly, highly recommend, and Elsewhere which is a memoir.

edit to fix touchstones

>47 susanj67: I loved that one when I read it a few years ago. I gave it 4.5 stars.

The image back in >3 susanj67: disappeared...
I originally favourited that post so I could zip back to it easily. Kinda miss having the photo...

is it an easy fix to make it "stick"?

I just started the Kate Hamilton series (there's only 2 books so far) and the theme looks promising. I thought I found the book bullet on your 2019 thread but I must have misremembered!

>87 Ameise1: Thanks Barbara - I fixed it :-)

>88 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, how lucky you were to meet him! I'm really looking forward to reading more of his.

>89 katiekrug: Thanks Katie - that's good to know. My nearest library branch has the "Fool" ones, and they're not in bad condition although not as nice as an ebook :-)

>90 lkernagh: Thanks Lori :-) My library is supposed to have the memoir, which is called On Helwig Street in the UK, but there was no sign of it ten minutes ago when I was in there.

>91 thornton37814: Lori, I agree with your rating!

>92 SandyAMcPherson: Sandy, the pictures are definitely an issue, but it's more of an LT thing, I think. It seems to depend on the browser you're using, and possibly the time of day, the direction of the wind and the position of Jupiter's moons :-) I can see the picture in >3 susanj67: on all my gadgets, but my book covers have now disappeared. Grrr. The Kate Hamilton books seem to be unknown here, at least to the library. Amazon has them but £8.00 for a paperback OMG. So I'll have to give them a miss unless they become popular here and cheaper :-)

I returned my weekend reading to the library and took nothing out. That's right - nada. I have ten hard copy reserves, three of which are "in transit" although one of those has been doing that for weeks. I'm going to focus on my own stuff or library ebooks for a bit, so that I'm not overbooked if lots of reserves arrive at once. This morning I dug deep into the Kindle to find The Slave Trade, which I have been reading for roughly 5,000 years with virtually no discernible progress through the book, but then the bus was on diversion so I had to look out of the window at all the stuff I don't usually see :-) But I saw The Slave Trade in hard copy at the library recently and it's *enormous*, so it's no wonder I'm only at 30%. Or, as I realised this morning as chapter 19 appeared, at the end of the 1700s.

Oh my goodness! I’ve had The Slave Trade in my TBR piles forEVER. Guess I’d better unearth it soon if I want to get it read before I die.

Read Empire Falls last spring for RL Book Club and I really liked it.

>94 Fourpawz2: Charlotte, yes, find it now! Amazon says the paperback is 928 pages long, which seems about right. For me it's too much of a catalogue of Every. Single. Voyage (I'm not kidding - he names captains from the 1400s) but I'm hoping that as there are more voyages he might take a broader-brush approach.

I just looked up the #MeToo journalists from the Failing New York Times on Twitter to see if they're covering the Weinstein trial which starts today, but the first *two weeks* will be jury selection. Holy carp. I suppose I should look again in a fortnight.

>84 susanj67: References to Russo always make me chuckle - I accidentally read a sci-fi novel by Richard Paul Russo for the American Author challenge a few years ago, instead of this Russo. Still haven't managed to get around to him!

>96 BekkaJo: Bekka, that's a relatively unusual name to be two of them! I can definitely recommend the Mr Russo that I read :-)

I'll admit I can recommend the other one too - if one is partial to sci-fi ;)

>98 BekkaJo: Not super-partial, but never say never :-)

>93 susanj67: You actually went into a library and didn't check anything out !?!? Is the world about to end?

Reporting in, Susan. The casserole conversation made me laugh- the Deep South is a haven for casseroles of every kind. It's kind of scary, actually.

I love Russo - you cannot go wrong with either Empire Falls orNobody's Fool - I loved both of them. I'm adding Chances Are to The List.

>100 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, fortunately a reserve has arrived overnight :-) But in the meantime I've managed a (long) chapter of the slave book. Yay!

>101 Crazymamie: Mamie! Welcome back :-) I saw your picture in my Fitbit leaderboard stats yesterday - you are still beating me, but that's nothing new :-) I can't believe I haven't discovered Russo before now, but at least I have lots of his books ahead of me.

>93 susanj67: O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! the photo is back _ not that it was totally necessary for the series post.
Re the Kate Hamilton books, I'm thinking perhaps the London library doesn't put their selection priorities on American authors (?).

Does Overdrive e-book access provide a wider choice than the stacks? I'm a fan of opting for a physical book, but occasionally the e-book is all that's available in our PL system, for certain authors.

>103 SandyAMcPherson: Sandy, I'm glad the photos are behaving for you :-) There are a few series/authors beloved of LTers that just haven't taken off here at all with the library (or even Amazon). It's not a particular country - I can't work out what it is. Overdrive gives me a different choice than hard copies - not wider, but a lot more US-specific things (particularly NF) than UK libraries would buy. I love ebooks because the physical stock is pretty grimy in my library system. That's one of the reasons I reserve a lot of new things :-)

And speaking of new things, at lunchtime I picked up With Child: Lee Child and the Readers of Jack Reacher by Andy Martin. It's come all the way from Luton, which is part of the London Libraries Consortium despite being nowhere near London (much like London Luton Airport, in fact). The author spends a year in the company of Lee Child while he's writing Night School and promoting Make Me. I can't wait!

Before that, I went to see if the new pedestrian route through Wood Wharf (the new, residential section of Canary Wharf, still under construction) is open, as rumoured. And it is! We have spent *years* watching the construction, and finally we can go over and play there. Well, OK, walk through it. Some of it. A garden is just about complete, so there might be some sitting down when the weather is better. A lot of the site is still under construction and boarded off, but instead of whitewashed hoardings they are painted and varnished, with giant photos and lots of information about how lovely it will all be. And it smells like show homes - all new and beautiful. I was very impressed. The first residents are supposed to be moving in from "spring 2020", which is a bit vague but it won't be Crossrail-vague (i.e. out by years). There is a lot to do before "spring" but they only need road access to three or four buildings by then, so people can move. Two of the buildings are rental-only, which is a big departure for the UK where corporate landlords are very rare. The other two have been for sale in stages for a while.

>104 susanj67: that sounds interesting! I have the new Lee Child waiting to be read.

>105 ChelleBearss: Chelle, you are so lucky still to have one to read! It appears that Andy Martin wrote Reacher Said Nothing, about the writing of Make Me, so this one is actually - ahem - a follow-up, about the *readers* of the novel. You could say it's even, um, book 2.

Oh dear.

I still can't wait, though!

>106 susanj67: that does sound like something I should read!

>104 susanj67: This is all most interesting. Thanks.

I responded over on my thread prior to visiting back here.
I remember now that you live in a very temperate climate compared to us. EXCEPT. I am always cold in the UK. I tease my brother (lives in the NW1 part of London) that doncha know the Romans knew how to centrally heat buildings? Why is it so cold everywhere?

Yes. Go ahead and laugh...

Good luck with your continuing endeavours with the slave book, Susan. >104 susanj67: does sound interesting. I heard something about a John Lewis roof garden (in the centre of the city, though), but not sure if it is publicly accessible.

>84 susanj67: This does sound good, Susan. I loved Empire Falls and have been meaning to read more by Russo.

Characters from Empire Falls come back in Bridge of Sighs which takes place in Venice. It's the only Russo I know of that isn't set in New York and it made for a fun change.

>111 RebaRelishesReading: Oh, I didn't know that, Reba. Thanks!

Hello, Susan!

>107 ChelleBearss: Chelle, I really enjoyed it. My review is below :-)

>108 SandyAMcPherson: Sandy, yes, the Romans knew a thing or two on the heating front (and running water). I think the UK (much like NZ) kids itself that it doesn't have extremes of weather like other places. We're better with heating than air-conditioning, though :-)

>109 charl08: Charlotte, there is a roof garden on John Lewis in Oxford Street, which they use for events. I'm not sure if any are planned for Wood Wharf, but some of the office buildings here have roof gardens and beehives are popular too.

>110 BLBera: Beth, I can definitely recommend it.

>111 RebaRelishesReading: Aha! Thanks for that, Reba.

>112 Crazymamie: Hi Mamie!

Well. The Sussexes have quit. I was watching the news last night when the newsreader started reading out the announcement, and then it was non-stop Royals for the rest of the hour, or at least until I changed the channel. I thought Canada's Governor General might be feeling a bit insecure, job-wise, after hearing the news, but the papers here say that they made the announcement without even telling the Queen, so maybe the Governor General is safe after all. I can't imagine they'll be travelling back and forth between North America and the UK once Archie's at school, so my prediction is that they'll gradually spend more time outside the UK over the next few years and move permanently by the time he's 4 or 5. The Huffington Post has an article with some excellent tweets in response to the news:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/wild-reactions-to-meghan-markle-prince-ha...

The nerdy lawyer in me wonders what the immigration situation is with Canada. The Queen is Canada's Queen, and the Royal Family is Canada's too. But does that mean Harry can just move there without a visa?

ETA: The BBC has talked to some Canadians about whether Harry and Meghan would be welcome there: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-51042826/would-canadians-welcome-h...



4. With Child: Lee Child and the Readers of Jack Reacher by Andy Martin

As I mentioned above, Andy Martin sat with Lee Child as he wrote Make Me, and wrote a book about it, called Reacher Said Nothing. This book is the follow-up, in which Martin goes on (part of) the promotional tour for Make Me, and talks to Child as he's starting the next book, Night School. A lot of it is very funny. Parts are maybe a bit woo-woo, but overall it's an excellent read, and if you're a Reacher Creature it's a must-read :-) I think you need to be familiar with the character of Jack and Child's style of writing to get the most out of it. I may have converted Booky Work Friend to the idea of reading a Jack Reacher novel, and all y'all will GASP when you hear that I recommended she start with Blue Moon, which is the newest one.

Recommending out of order?

Calling Susan: I need to hear the safe word.

>114 charl08: Um, is it 42? That's the answer to everything, after all.

I picked up The Prodigal Tongue this evening, which was recommended by Julia. (Hi Julia!). It's about the differences between English English and American English. I started it on the bus, and was startled to read the following:

"These differences are superficial and deep, simple and complex, blatant and sneaky: the spelling of colo(u)r, the pronunciation of garage, the meaning of frown..."

Wait. WHAT? What does frown mean in the US?! In the UK you frown when you pull your eyebrows together and look cross. (I may return with a picture). What else could it possibly mean? I have only just got used to "quite" meaning "very", for crying out loud.

ETA here is a British frown:

That is how I think of frown, too, Susan. I think the difference would be that frown in America could be just the mouth turned down without the puckered brow.

>116 Crazymamie:

That would make sense in terms of "turn that frown upside down", I guess, but I can't say it ever occurred to me before a frown was just that.

>115 susanj67: That's a very Dutch frown too, Susan, the pulling of eyebrows and looking difficult is part of the frown over here.

>115 susanj67:. I can't rememebr who said it but it's two countries divided by a common language. That's a frown. not heavy enough to be a scowl, but still a frown.

>115 susanj67: Yep, keep reading — she explains it all. Apparently, non-American English speakers are completely flummoxed by this.

I'm so pleased you're reading it — I'll look forward to further reports that either begin or end with WHAT?!

>119 Helenliz: It was either Oscar Wilde or George Bernard Shaw who said it first, but evidence is murky. And in fact Lynne Murphy, the linguist who wrote The Prodigal Tongue has a blog by that name that I find highly entertaining and often enlightening. You can find it at https://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/

>115 susanj67: Yep, that's a frown here too.

>113 susanj67: - Ah, the Sussex news. I have no problem with royals deciding that they want to 'step away' from their royal positions. I did roll my eye a bit at the 'working to become financially independent", but seriously, when did they decide they wanted to move to Canada? This better not involve my tax payer dollars. I am not on board with that. I should have figured something more was going on in the background than just a "private holiday in Canada" when they went to Canada House in London to thank Canada for hosting them. Good grief.

I am less enamoured with the Royals than most, Susan, but it seems to me that Harry is being particularly ungrateful. He has been groomed for public service at considerable expense and he would struggle for financial independence if he were made to pay back some of the money that now seems wasted on him. About his wife less said the better.

I am not a Royalist but do respect our Queen whose public service cannot be questioned. More respect perhaps than her grandson.

Bad last few months what with Andrew bringing the Royal Family into disrepute also.

>116 Crazymamie: Mamie, I never knew that. How have I reached my advanced age without knowing that? I will have to ask our American secondee to frown for me, and see what happens. He is very patient :-) Of course, he could just be collecting stories of crazy people in the UK. That's always a possibility.

>117 lyzard: Liz, yes, I'd heard that expression, but I never really thought it through :-)

>118 DianaNL: Diana, in that case maybe the picture is a "European" frown...Of course now I wonder: do they frown like that in Russia, say, or Spain? Where did the US meaning come from?

>119 Helenliz: Helen, so very true :-)

>120 rosalita: Julia, well I am one of those flummoxed people. I think the whole "quite" thing was still more of a shock to me, but this is pretty close. I've only read the first chapter of the book, but I'm really looking forward to more this weekend. I do have to finish a Cadfael mystery, though, as it is about to expire.

>121 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, it seems, then, that a US frown could be:

1. Eyebrows (with or without other parts of the face)
2. Mouth turned down (with or without other parts of the face)

In the UK it definitely has to involve eyebrows, and I would say we do less of the mouth turning-down, but now I will be looking at people to test this theory.

>122 lkernagh: Lori, I think they've always liked Canada. Meghan lived there while she was doing Suits, and we know she dislikes Trump, so I think it will be a good choice all round. Plus, if Britain is serious about wanting closer Commonwealth ties post-Brexit, it could work out really well, depending on how much they do over there. The security is an issue, though (or more accurately who pays for it). If they're living in a private capacity then they're likely to lose it (or at least have to pay for it themselves). While only about 5% of their income comes from the Sovereign Grant, they also get all their security and official travel paid for. Giving up the 5% "cash", if you like, is one thing, because they have plenty of other money, but the security would be a huge cost. Anyway, today's news is that Meghan has gone back to Canada, which was planned. As they left Archie over there, I'm guessing that's accurate :-) The Queen has knocked everyone's heads together and told them to work something out "within days".

>123 PaulCranswick: Paul, I feel sorry for Harry because he's never really had a choice about public service. He's been gawped at since he was a baby, and I think he'd have made a break for the hills long ago if he'd had someone on his side. The papers today are saying that he tried to talk to the Queen, and to Prince Charles, but they both said he needed to put something in writing - from a pure employment law perspective that's a shabby way to treat an employee, let alone one who is also a family member. I just hope that they make good choices in their new life, and don't end up entangled with dodgy rich people (like Epstein and the Yorks). It *could* go well (like Princess Anne's children, who live quiet lives but attend important events) but it could also go very, very badly.

If I were Harry and saw what happened to my mother being repeated with my wife, I would probably want out, too. I do think maybe they are trying to have it both ways and to dictate the terms, which given all the financial, security, and diplomatic considerations at play, seems rather presumptuous. But maybe it's just an opening negotiation gambit :)

I actually feel more sorry for William because he and Harry truly seemed to have a strong bond, but I think as heir, he has to consider the wider picture first, when he'd probably rather just support his brother.

I saw this and struggled to disagree.

>124 susanj67:, >125 katiekrug:, >126 Helenliz: re Harry and Megan -- amen!

re frown -- I looked in Websters which says "to contract the brows, as in displeasure or concentrated thought and at Wikipedia which acknowledges the North America vs. UK with :

"A frown (also known as a scowl) is a facial expression in which the eyebrows are brought together, and the forehead is wrinkled, usually indicating displeasure, sadness or worry, or less often confusion or concentration. The appearance of a frown varies by culture. Although most technical definitions define it as a wrinkling of the brow, in North America it is primarily thought of as an expression of the mouth. In those cases when used iconically, as with an emoticon, it is entirely presented by the curve of the lips forming a down-open curve. The mouth expression is also commonly referred to in the colloquial English phrase "turn that frown upside down" which indicates changing from sad to happy."

As a north American I may think of a frown as involving the mouth but when I frown it's an eyebrows thing.

I agree that the archetype of the North American frown involves a down-turning of the mouth, but in reality, it's actually very hard to do, so I think our actual frowns end up being like scowls, which is what I would call the image that Susan posted.

>113 susanj67: Wait, what?! Why would you do such a thing??

I have yet to finish the newest book. I made the mistake of lending it to my FIL before I read it, thinking he would read it as quickly as he had read the rest and give it back quickly. I was wrong.

Ha, you almost made me miss my train stop, Susan. I didn’t realize the Sussexes were moving here. I wonder how much that is going to cost us?

>125 katiekrug: Katie, yes, it's the "having it both ways" that is likely to go wrong. And, whatever they may think, they're not the Obamas or the Clooneys. They're popular because they're royal.

>126 Helenliz: Helen, I would also struggle to disagree with that. But of course the loathsome Piers Morgan says that lots of kids lose parents, as if Harry should have thought "Well, this happens to lots of people so I shouldn't feel unhappy, and plus I'm super-rich so I shouldn't feel unhappy about anything at all." Ridiculous.

>127 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, interesting! I disagree with Wikipedia that a frown is also known as a scowl - surely the fact that there are different words means that they are different things! A frown can just mean puzzlement, but a scowl means anger.

>128 katiekrug: Katie, I tried the whole "downturned mouth" thing but I couldn't really do it and then I had to stop in case someone came into my office and got the wrong impression.

>129 ChelleBearss: Chelle, I had to toss up between Orderliness and the need to convert BWF to Reacherdom (or "Leelandia", as Any Martin calls it) as quickly as possible. I'm still a bit conflicted, though...:-)

>130 Familyhistorian: Meg, we should know more very soon, because the news reports that the Queen wants it sorted out within 72 hours. And I suppose they work weekends :-)

Meanwhile, I loved the front page of The Sun this morning, in light of the discussion above:

5. Saint Peter's Fair by Ellis Peters

This is book 4 in the Cadfael series, and it involves a three-day fair in Shrewsbury, during which there are murders. A couple of characters from past books reappear, and the mystery is solved in the end :-)

Whenever I hear people going on about being so disrespectful as to not consult the Queen with her being a 93 year old grandmother I can’t help wondering whether they give their own grandmothers a veto over important aspects of their own life. Probably not, I’m thinking. I know if my own mother had to be consulted about any changes in the lives of her grandchildren then there’d be some pretty disgruntled grownup grandchildren about! But then I’m not a royalist ...

>133 SandDune: Rhian, yes, it is very silly. I've been out for a paper this morning and there are conflicting stories about what's going on even in the same newspaper (The Times). They say there was a Big Row before Christmas, and The Queen and the Prince of Wales weren't "blindsided" by the announcement at all, but knew it was coming (but maybe not so quickly). I do feel a bit sorry for Harry being left here to deal with it all on his own, while the Duchess is several time zones away. But then again I don't blame her getting away from all the Drama :-)

Today's booky plans:

1. Visit LT threads.

2. Continue with The Prodigal Tongue after I read another chapter this morning before I made myself go out into the world (albeit just round the corner for the paper).

3. Start The Emperor Far Away, which was a random library book I picked up on Thursday. It's about "travels at the edge of China" - the various ethnic groups that are being brought under Han Chinese rule whether they like it or not.

4. Read a bit more of Through A Glass Darkly.

5. Finish The Slave Trade chapter I was reading yesterday on my phone. The chapters are just under half an hour long, in reading time, which is too long to finish going to and from work on the bus.

Goodness. It seems I might be quite busy :-)

>122 lkernagh: This better not involve my tax payer dollars

I'm entirelywith you on that sentiment.

>132 susanj67: Nice comments. ;)

>131 susanj67: How timely of her majesty lol

>135 SandyAMcPherson: Sandy, we should know what's happening pretty soon :-)

>136 BLBera: Beth, LOL! There's not that much to say about the mysteries :-) I do like the series, though.

>137 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, yes, I thought it was perfect, really :-)

How is it 6pm already? Yeesh. True, I had a nap, but still. At least I've done all the laundry, and if I do the ironing I could watch another episode of Bloodline. I'm so close to finishing it. I've now read four chapters of the language book, which is excellent, and finished the slave book chapter. Twenty chapters down, 400 to go.

Justin Trudeau is giving a press conference, speaking English first and then French. But Sky has an interpreter doing the French, even though it's literally what he just said in English. Strange. Maybe, as it's a live feed, they can't just have foreign languages in case people take fright and change the channel.

As far as I'm concerned the frown only involves the brow - mostly because I can't even figure out how to include the mouth - meaning my mouth. I can't figure out how to make it do that and while catching up here I've made several attempts to achieve a frowny mouth. Nothing. Guess I'm not made that way.

So glad that I do not have to get all lathered up over H & M. Not surprised that everything has blown up and would not be surprised if it got worse.

>139 Fourpawz2: Charlotte, I'm glad I'm not the only one trying out all the different kinds of frowns :-) It's not too late to join the H&M lather :-) There is a summit tomorrow at Sandringham, so all sorts of nonsense will be published about what was said at that. The papers today are all still full of it - I must go and get one.

So I'm not the only one frowning at the computer and trying to think about what their face is doing?

>141 BekkaJo: Bekka, definitely not! I was also doing it in the bus window the other night, so goodness knows what I looked like :-)

I have returned from the supermarket with the Sunday Times and the Sunday Telegraph. Heh. So much for not adding to the pile of newspaper supplements. But there is a lot of Harry & Meghan news, including the gobsmacking (as we say) detail that Meghan will be *dialling in* to the meeting at Sandringham with the Queen tomorrow. I really think that, as she must have known what she and Harry were going to do, she should have stayed here. I mean, who dials in to a meeting with the QUEEN?!!! Surely you would put on your best outfit and show up in person. Very naughty (if it's true).

>143 susanj67: - I agree. With this she's just a step away from leaving a post-it on the Queen's bathroom mirror.

>143 susanj67: Hmmm.
Nah, I'm with the dialling in bit.

Cynically, I do wonder what Missy Sussex thought she was getting into when she married this guy. After all, wisely, other candidates for the position stepped away before they got to the 'engaged' point.

I bet family pressures in that outfit are in the pressure-cooker category. Yeah, dial-in prevents the immediacy of whatever emotional turmoil ensues. Too bad Harry didn't 'step-away' before he ever got engaged. It's very sad for these folks. They'll always be hounded and vilified/adored by some segments of the public. *shudder*

>144 Fourpawz2: Charlotte, I can't even imagine doing that in my own job - if I knew the senior partner was going to call me in for a meeting I would *not* be out of the country for it. Yeesh!

>145 SandyAMcPherson: Sandy, I'm not sure it's coming from Meghan - I think that Harry has been unhappy for a long time and now he just has someone on his side who will support him in making the break. I agree that she should perhaps have been better-informed about what the British press were like. She lived here for a while before they got married, but maybe she didn't read them. Or maybe she thought that she was different and they wouldn't dare. But the main offender, the Daily Mail/Mail Online, just *hates women*. It doesn't matter who they are or what they do - a woman's place is in the wrong.

One interesting thing I have learned from the Sunday Times (so far) is that their dogs moved to Canada with them before Christmas, so it looks like they were always planning to stay for quite a while.

Susan, I am cracking up that your thread has everybody frowning, but in a very thoughtful way.

>146 susanj67: I have to say if I was Meghan my child would be more important than anyone’s grandmother, Queen or not ....

>146 susanj67: I wasn't surprised to 'hear' that all this was planned out ahead. Thanks for the update.

>148 SandDune: What you said - totally agree!

>147 Crazymamie: Mamie, this thread is a hive of activity :-)

>148 SandDune: Rhian, I agree, but I don't understand why they didn't all come back last week so Archie was here. Now Harry's on his own, and if he wants to join them in Canada quickly then his negotiating position will be weakened. If the three of them were here, he could take his time considering what the Queen proposed and they could go in a month or two. According to a piece by Tom Bradby in the Sunday Times (he did the interview with them last year in Africa), Harry was asked to put his proposals in writing before or just after Christmas, said he didn't want to because they would leak, was made to do it anyway and they leaked, hence the rather hurried announcement on Tuesday night. So he must have expected that all this would happen.

>149 SandyAMcPherson: Sandy, yes, it seems to have been in the pipeline for a while. There are (and have been for months) rumours of unpleasantness at the time of the wedding, and things don't seem to have improved. I've seen speculation that they've agreed to do an interview with Gayle King in the US (although I don't know who she is) and Tom Bradby says in his article today that "I have some idea of what might be aired in a full, no-holds barred sit down interview and I don't think it would be pretty." Eek.

Gayle King is the main anchor on "CBS This Morning" and she is Oprah's best buddy.

Loving the continued "H&M" coverage here, Susan. I noticed that both the Obamas and Oprah have publicly countered speculation that they were consulted or provided advice to the Sussexes in the lead up to their announcement, so it looks like everyone connected with the Sussexes are being dragged into the fray by the media. What a mess.

>150 susanj67: Interested to see Question Time (I watch it a few days after it screens) and an unusual unanimity in favour of Harry and Meghan.

>151 Fourpawz2: Charlotte, that sounds very high-profile.

>152 lkernagh: Lori, I saw that too. I suppose no-one wants to be blamed if it all goes wrong. If it all goes right, the same people will say "Well, you know, I put the idea into their heads..."

>153 PaulCranswick: Paul, yes, there is still a lot of goodwill here for Harry (and most people are prepared to wait and see with Meghan). One of the articles in today's Sunday Times was with a journalist who recalled a conversation with him some years ago in which he said that he'd thought about becoming a rugby coach, or a fireman, but couldn't give the jobs 100%, which he wanted to do. So it would seem that he, at least, envisaged a "normal" life at one point. Prince William's search and rescue helicopter work was very well received, so he could always do something like that although I suppose he would want his own "thing". But something socially useful would go down really well. I fear, though, that they're pointed towards Hollywood now, and that's not likely to meet with such a good reception.

If you're just joining the Megxit drama, here's an explainer from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/13/royals-packed-agenda-meeting-tit...

(Overseas readers: Bear in mind that the Guardian favours a republic. They'd change their tune if Cheeto was in charge, I bet).

And a longer article from the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51086477

It's interesting that all the stories say that Meghan is "likely" to join by phone or videoconference - in other words, someone's made that up and Meghan is now being judged for it whether or not it's true.

The Times has a headline saying that Harry is in "turmoil" but Meghan is standing firm, but then again they ran a story a few months ago saying that Carrie and Boris had split up, so who knows? Meghan's major complaint in the ITV documentary was not so much the press attention as the stories that were just made up from nowhere. It's one thing to do/say/wear something and be judged, but quite another not to have done/said/worn the thing at all but the haters still come for you.

Somewhere I read that Harry reads not only the stories but all the comments underneath them, so no wonder they're feeling fed up. Most people do *not* spend their days as keyboard warriors. For every one mean comment there are probably a hundred people or a thousand who think the opposite or have no opinion but don't want to get into it with the haters on account of having lives to live. It's dismaying that H&M either don't seem to know that or to believe it.

Here's a link to the Guardian's live blog, which leads (right now) with a story saying that Princes William and Harry have dismissed a story written today (in The Times, it seems) including allegations they say they denied before it went to print:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2020/jan/13/prince-harry-meghan-royal-f...

And in some bad news for Canadian taxpayers (Hi ladies!) apparently the implausibly good-looking Justin Trudeau has agreed that Canada will foot the bill for their security while they're in Canada. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/canada-security-bill-harry-meghan-justin-trud...

Mind you, this is something the Standard has "learned", so it might not be true. Like everything else.

It's a valuable public service you provide, Susan.

What Helen said!

>158 Helenliz: Helen, :-) I try...

>159 katiekrug: Ha! Hi Katie! I like the live blogs, even though there isn't really much news.

And there probably won't be any real news today, although someone will no doubt leak whether Meghan did or didn't take part.

I saw this on Facebook. Hope I can get it to post...

>161 katiekrug: Katie, I love it!

>161 katiekrug: I am now mopping up tea. That's just fantastic!

:)

Thank you for the links, Susan and thank you for the laugh, Katie!

>161 katiekrug: I snorted my coffee. It was slightly painful.

Hello, Susan! Your thread is very entertaining. The news I saw this morning was asking why wasn't Megan invited to The Meeting? A totally different take on what is being reported overseas which made me smile - there is always a spin, isn't there?!

>163 Helenliz: Helen, I hope you didn't wreck your keyboard...

>164 katiekrug: :-))

>165 RebaRelishesReading: Hi Reba! More below...

>166 Crazymamie: Mamie, that is funny about the US reporting :-) But the answer could be "Because she fled the country". Still no news on whether she dialled in or not.

However, this is a statement from the Queen:

Today my family had very constructive discussions on the future of my grandson and his family.

My family and I are entirely supportive of Harry and Meghan’s desire to create a new life as a young family. Although we would have preferred them to remain full-time working Members of the Royal Family, we respect and understand their wish to live a more independent life as a family while remaining a valued part of my family.

Harry and Meghan have made clear that they do not want to be reliant on public funds in their new lives.

It has therefore been agreed that there will be a period of transition in which the Sussexes will spend time in Canada and the UK.

These are complex matters for my family to resolve, and there is some more work to be done, but I have asked for final decisions to be reached in the coming days.

I like this statement. "Period of transition" calms things down (and means that Harry doesn't have to make a hurried choice), but the words "constructive", "entirely supportive" "respect and understand" and the repeated "my family" are basically HMQ telling the Piers Morgans of the world that they can butt out.

Nice :-) The Queen is awesome.

>168 susanj67: I concur.

I noticed the emphasis on "family", too (hard not to!). QEII is a class act.

Agreed - not sure whether I agree with the Sussex lot (I go back and forth), or any of the other Royals TBH, but the Queen rules.

Pun wholly intended.

Thanks for keeping us posted Susan. I know that the Swedish king recently redefined his official royal family as just himself, his wife and the heir and her heir. The rest are still part of the personal family, of course, but it trims down the public scale of things. That's probably way too trimmed down for Britain but it seems to me that the Sussex's proposal might work well. I also have a great deal of sympathy for those who are born into a job they don't like and can't escape -- sort of luxurious slavery -- and I hope they can step back, find worthwhile work that they like and still have a happy nuclear and extended family life.

>134 susanj67: Curious as to your thoughts of The Emperor Far Away as that is has been on my wish list for awhile.

>157 susanj67: - Looks like nothing has been decided yet about who is paying for security while they are in Canada, or where in the country they will reside. A lot of decisions still to be made, it seems:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6405027/prince-harry-meghan-markle-canada/

>168 susanj67: - Agreed. The Queen is awesome.

>169 Crazymamie: Mamie, coverage this morning seems to be pretty positive.

>170 katiekrug: Katie, I think QEII would have a lot in common with Ruth Bader Ginsburg - they are both women of advanced years relied on by their countries to stop All The Madness :-)

>171 BekkaJo: Bekka, excellent pun there :-)

>172 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, the Prince of Wales is said to be a fan of slimming things down (albeit he didn't plan to slim the Sussexes out of the picture). The issue with Harry is that he served on the front line in Afghanistan, so he's a target for the jihadis. He really can't go without any security at all. But the other cousins have pretty much gone their own way - the York girls both have jobs, as do Princess Anne's children. It will be interesting to see what Prince Edward's children do, but all of the "lesser" members of the family could, if they wanted to, do useful things rather than having to worry about making lots of money.

>173 Oberon: Erik, I didn't manage to start it on the weekend, but I hope to very soon!

>174 lkernagh: Lori, that's an interesting article! So much for the Evening Standard's report on Justin Trudeau's assurances to the Queen :-) I see that Tim Horton's has offered them free coffee for life if they move to Canada, so no doubt they'll take that into account :-)

Here's an article from the Telegraph on yesterday's meeting:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2020/01/13/sandringham-summit-happened/

I could only read the first few paragraphs of the Telegraph article before it wanted money (which is fine - I don't believe that all content should be free). But it sounded like it was going to have some juicy details :(

>176 katiekrug: Katie, it seems to have become "premium" since I posted the link (I *was* surprised that it was all available last night and this morning...) - sorry about that. It mostly just talked about how all the staff were told to busy themselves on the other side of the house (the original headline referred to "housemaids", but by this morning that had changed to "staff"), that the Queen ensured there were meals before and after the meeting and there may or may not have been members of their private offices there. Nothing earth-shattering, but more information than we usually get. But it seems that everyone arrived separately and left separately, even though William virtually lives next door. The Duchess of Cambridge was pictured doing the school run in London yesterday so she wasn't up there.

Now the Standard is reporting that Harry will join Meghan in Canada "this week", which must mean Friday as he has an event here on Thursday. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/harry-meghan-markle-canada-vancouver-justin-t... It seems they will still be at the expensive house on Vancouver Island, which may or may not be owned by a wealthy Russian who no-one will name. Or someone else entirely...

>177 susanj67: OK, I was going to ignore the Sussex discussions (poor souls, so little privacy, so much unfounded media attention)... but will say this ... (I'm not implying any criticism for the discussion here, btw)

I grew up on Towner Park Road (1950's). It was, and still is, scenic, woodsy and quiet. There are *no* Russian connections. The houses are relatively modest, especially the ones that have been there for yonks. My childhood friends who retired there (having inherited parental properties) are appalled at the current media-laden invasion.

I hope this family can settle into a quieter life. Faint hope, of course, but at least it will have the potential of approaching something a little more normal. I'm pretty sure the locals will be typically polite, not making an intrusive push to involve themselves in new neighbours.

Anecdote from when I was a young teenager: my Mom and friends used to play golf on the Ardmore course. It was small, nine holes, and golfers simply went round twice to play an 18-hole game. I used to caddy for my Mom (this was the normal thing in those days, no motorized carts!).

The time I'm writing about, we were asked to allow the group following us to play through. Turned out to be Bob Hope and some hosts. No one said much, no one went up to him afterwards when we were all milling around the clubhouse. My mother said that's why he likes visiting here. He has private time and isn't asked for his autograph everywhere he goes.

I hope this scenario persists. But there *will* have to be security in place. It is sadly not the bucolic life of the past. And at least well-removed from the media vultures. I hope...

>178 SandyAMcPherson: Hi Sandy! That is so interesting about the area they're living in right now. I wonder who *does*own the giant house, then? It looks gorgeous. The pundits here think they might move to Toronto, which would be closer to home in terms of time zones (and air miles). I liked your golf course anecdote too. It must be horrible for well-known people being gawped at all the time. No bad hair days, no questionable outfit choices, or everything ends up in the Mail Online with a thousand snipey comments. I know that it's supposed to be a life of "privilege", but I'm not convinced.

The Washington Post's story led with a quote from Boris Johnson saying that he's "absolutely confident" that the royal family will figure out a solution, so I feel ever so much better now.

>180 rosalita: Julia, he gave a good answer!

Boris Johnson said he was “absolutely confident” the royal family could resolve the crisis. He told BBC Breakfast: “My view on this is very straightforward: I am a massive fan, like most of our viewers, of the Queen and the royal family as a fantastic asset for our country.

“I’m absolutely confident that they are going to sort this out. But they are going to sort it out much more easily without a running commentary from politicians.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/14/meghan-did-not-take-part-in-sand...

>161 katiekrug: & >166 Crazymamie: What Mamie said.

Love your analysis of the press, Susan.

>181 susanj67: Good answer, Mr. Johnson!

>181 susanj67: I am tickled that the definition of a good answer by Johnson is "I am not involved, nor am I going to be".

>179 susanj67: - Local news has come up with the following - more mundane - answer to the mansion ownership question:

"a land title search of the property shows that it is owned by Towner Bay Country Club Ltd, that has 24 directors — all but one of whom live in Victoria."

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/confusion-reigns-supreme-in-stories-on-...

Not as "fun" as all the speculation, but not surprising since I believe the house borders the golf course >178 SandyAMcPherson: mentions. ;-) Personally, I think they will spend their transition time while in Canada in Toronto, not on the island.

>182 PaulCranswick: Thanks Paul :-)

>183 RebaRelishesReading: Hi Reba! I thought he was very diplomatic.

>184 charl08: Charlotte, I read it more as "I am not going to jump on the bandwagon to get headlines, unlike my colleagues who should be running the country and not yapping about celebrities to anyone who will listen. Priti, I'm looking at you." :-)

>185 lkernagh: Lori, thank you for that link! Very interesting. I was both dismayed and amused by the way the Vancouver Sun carefully went through all the sloppy reporting of the British papers. Again, it's a lesson in how much of what we read is just invented.

Today has been quieter on the royal front, although not as quiet as the six weeks when the Sussexes weren't in the country at all. It really was very quiet without them. That said, I haven't read the Mail this year. No doubt they had plenty.

6. Persona Non Grata by Ruth Downie

This is the third in the Medicus Ruso series, about a Roman doctor in Britannia. But at the beginning of this book Ruso receives a letter summoning him back to Gaul, so he and Tilla make their way back to the family estate where all manner of chaos awaits them. Finally we meet his brother, sister-in-law, stepmother and teenage sisters (the sisters are a highlight of the book). There is lots of running around in the sunshine, although Tilla, who finds herself helping out one of the servants by treading grapes, can't understand why the population doesn't drink beer or mead, but just "grape-feet juice". This is the best one in the series so far.

Of course, now I am picturing that I Love Lucy episode:

>188 Crazymamie:, OMG, I totally remember that episode.
It was one of the few I "got" and laughed at some much, my face hurt. My Dad teased me forever about that evening.

My mom loved to watch this show and liked me to sit in the TV room as well, because the male counterparts of the house were so unbearably sarcastic whenever an I Love Lucy episode was on.

OK. I detracted from the Ruth Downie discussion. Ooops.

*waving from Heathrow*

>190 katiekrug: Hi Katie! *waving from Canary Wharf* :-) You made it! Excellent news. I hope the transit lounge is everything you need it to be. Not long to go now till you board. BTW I think they have impeached Cheeto, so that's one awesome thing that happened while you were away :-)

>188 Crazymamie: Mamie, ha! Tilla didn't enjoy herself that much :-)

>189 SandyAMcPherson: Hi Sandy! This may not be the time to admit that I've never seen I Love Lucy...But I do like the way you had to watch it for moral support to your mother :-)



7. The Prodigal Tongue by Lynne Murphy

I reserved this from the library after Julia recommended it (Hi Julia!) and it is a very good read. The author, an American who has lived in the UK for years, looks at the love-hate relationship between American and British English, and I learned a lot. Probably the whole "frown" thing was the biggest thing (and also that the emoticon that appears when you type this :-( is a "sadface" in the UK, but "frownyface" in the US) but I also learned that we mean different things when we say "bacon" (yes, really) and "soup". There are always articles here complaining about the Americanisation of British English, but (a) a lot of the time Americans are just using the words that were British English in the 1600s and 1700s and travelled to the US with the early settlers (I think my fave, not covered in the book, is "turnpike", which isn't used here any more) and (b) plenty of British words travel the other way. Thanks Julia for a great recommendation!

I just had to go and ask our American secondee a question, and then I draw the sad-face emoticon in my notebook and asked him to describe it. "Frowny face," he said. OMG! We did some frowning and then I told him about the book and now he's bought it :-) I think he will love the author's slight (maybe more than slight) frustration with the British and their English. We agreed that "quite" was a total game-changer.

Another word that I found interesting in the book was "table" - if you table a motion in the UK you want to discuss it/debate it right then and there, but in the US if you table something you put it away for debate some other time, and get on with something else.

>192 susanj67: >193 susanj67: I'm only delighted that you loved this book as much as I did, Susan. And that you've managed to sell it on — well done, you!

The "table" difference was news to me as well, along with the startling difference in "quite" — in AmE it's an intensifier and in BrE it's more damning with faint praise. I suddenly understood the joke behind the Quite Interesting quiz show on BBC (which I've never seen but I follow the show's Twitter account).

Really, as I read this book, so many minor confusing things about books written by British authors suddenly made sense. Especially ones I read when I was much younger before you could look stuff up on the intertoobz.

By the way, the book has a website that includes quizzes on how well you know your BrE and AmE. It's here: https://theprodigaltongue.com/

Okay, Susan, you and Julia have sold me - adding it to The List. And I love that you have already gotten someone at your office to purchase it. Now, about never having seen I Love Lucy...shocking!

>194 rosalita: Julia, my colleague's wife will also love it (she is from New Jersey). I didn't learn about "quite" until comparatively recently. I didn't, for example, know that it meant "very" when I received an email from a US trainee saying that my research for her had been "quite helpful". I wasn't impressed.

>195 rosalita: I took both quizzes and scored 9/10 for the British English one and 7/10 for the American one. They both recommended that I read the book. Strange, that :-)

>196 Crazymamie: Mamie, I know. It just didn't seem to be that popular in NZ, but we only had two TV channels until I was about 20 (and by "we" I mean "New Zealand").

I went to the library to return my book, and pick up Daughters of Chivalry: The Forgotten Children of Edward I and they had a display for Chinese New Year. So I also got The Three-Body Problem and China Road. Oops.

>197 susanj67: Nice haul. A Happy Chinese New Year to you, then!

Also shocked about Lucy. I think it was used as a filler when I was a kid- hard to get away from.

>198 charl08: Thanks Charlotte! The Three-Body Problem has been on my list for a while, so it wasn't entirely a random choice. Of course, I am *supposed* to be rereading Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies before book 3 comes out in March.

>192 susanj67: Soup, what’s the difference with soup?

>195 rosalita: Ha ha ha ... I did the quizzes and got 6/10 on both of them.

That's entirely predictable for Canadians!

>200 SandDune: Rhian, in the US, "soup" is a broth with "bits" in it (meat, vegetables etc). In the UK, "soup" can be that, but can also be much thicker (e.g. pureed soups). The author sent her husband out for "chicken soup" when she was unwell, and he came back with cream of chicken - basically just liquidized goop. What she wanted was the US version - broth, with small pieces of chicken. She said that "Scotch broth" is the closest thing to US soup (or a closER thing).

>201 SandyAMcPherson: Sandy, I think that makes you equally American and British :-)

>202 susanj67: Two words were missing in the quizzes:

"Tea" - in North America that usually means a drink (or an afternoon dessert break), not the evening meal; in parts of the USA, it is often a sweetened, cold beverage; in Canada, it is called 'iced tea' to distinguish it from the brewed (hot) beverage.

"Pudding" - in Canada (and maybe the US?), this is a moist, cooked dessert. In the UK, AFAICT, it refers to anything served after the savoury course(s). I'm told that it is a very class-status term (in Britain) and that some families wouldn't deign to use the term in their household, unless referring specifically to an "actual" steamed or moist concoction, not necessarily a dessert.

Language is ever-evolving and so regional, isn't it?

>203 SandyAMcPherson: Sandy, from watching The Pioneer Woman (who is in Oklahoma) I get the impression that "pudding" in the US is a cold, creamy/moussey-ish sort of thing, like this (which we often had in NZ, although pudding there has the UK meaning).



In the UK, "pudding" can refer to any kind of dessert, from a steamed "Christmas pudding" to a fruit tart, to an eclair to ice-cream. It is the course in a meal, as you say. If you were going to someone's house for a meal and they asked "can you bring pudding?" you could take any sort of dessert.

>196 Crazymamie: I think you'll love it, Mamie!

>201 SandyAMcPherson: Poor Canada gets inundated from both sides of the English divide, so no wonder the quizzes didn't go well for you, Sandy!

>204 susanj67: Yep, pudding is just that, Susan. And as I learned from GBBO, 'jelly' in BrE is always (?) the congealed stuff we refer to as gelatin or the brand name Jell-O, whereas in AmE jelly and jam are often used interchangeably (there may be some technical difference that foodies can point to, but most people I know get the same mental image if you say 'jelly' or 'jam').

>205 rosalita: Julia, yes, jelly is always gelatin-based. "Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches" in US books always bewildered me. How could you put jelly in a sandwich? Eventually I learned that it meant "jam" (and then I couldn't understand why anyone would eat peanut butter and jam together, but at least I no longer worried about jam falling out of the sandwich).

I will say that I detest PB&J sandwiches, but picturing them with a layer of jello instead of jam makes them even grosser to me!

>202 susanj67: I was surprised that the book claims "soup" is only the broth-based one in the U.S. I beg to differ and would offer up any "soup cookbook" or menu in the country. Creamy, blended ones are definitely also "soup" here just as much as the broth ones.

To be technical, "jam" is a spread made with whole fruit crushed into it while "jelly" is made with fruit juice only (and thus is clear and looks a lot like jelly/Jello although it's not the same). I understand European revulsion at the idea of peanut butter and jelly/jam although it really is "quite" good :)

Now I'm off to try the quizzes.

>208 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, hmmm - I wonder if the definition of "soup" is a regional thing? Thanks for the answer to the jam/jelly issue - I'm still not going to try PB&J but I understand now :-)

I'm back -- 10 out of 10 for American English and 7 out of 10 for English English -- and here I thought I was bi-lingual :)

>210 RebaRelishesReading: But at least you got all the American words right :-) I had no idea that Ludo was Parcheesi in the US - all this time I assumed that Parcheesi was some glamorous game like Mah Jong, but it turns out I was playing it my whole childhood :-)

When I saw 13 new posts, I thought Meghan must have announced something really dramatic.

I have never thought of pudding in relation to class. In our house it was always "eat your main or there'll be no pudding" where pudding was usually ice cream. I think dessert more in terms of in a restaurant, but that could just be me!

Off to try the quiz, then.

I always wondered what parcheesi was...

>208 RebaRelishesReading: I think the author's point was more that in BrE soup it is exclusively the pureed, creamy type (or at least that's the default that people think of), whereas in AmE it can be either.

>204 susanj67: Instant pudding/mousse is awful (IMHO).

In my house growing up, we had a cottage pudding dessert made with cranberries. Mom used to 'toss' it together and cook it after she took out the roast or whatever had been prepared for dinner (evening meal). This is what I always think of for 'pudding' (but yes, I know what I'm expected to bring when I visit with designated food like pudding).

The recipe and a photo are over on my thread, since you (Susan) might not care for my junking up your thread with details.

Edited to add this link: Cranberry Cottage Pudding.

>212 charl08: Charlotte, there is no more Meghan news as far as I am aware, and I have checked my new-favourite-publication, the Vancouver Sun. We always called it pudding, too. My three favourites, in order of favouriteness (which might not actually be a word) were:

Chocolate self-saucing sponge pudding - you spoon hot water + coffee powder + cocoa on top of the mixture and it magically appears at the bottom

Poires Helene - tinned pears with a chocolate sauce (made with real chocolate). We never had this as a family pudding but my mother used to do it for dinner parties and there were usually pears and some sauce (known as the "Helene" - i.e."there is some Helene in the fridge if you want it") left over.

Steamed ginger pudding with custard - this was actually nicer the second night when the leftover pudding was put in the warmer drawer before serving, and got ever so slightly crispy on the edges

>213 charl08: Charlotte, I'm glad I'm not alone with that one! Reading the rules, though, it does seem more complicated than the, um, British version, which was a straight race.

>214 rosalita: Julia, I wouldn't say it is exclusively pureed here - a soup can be a broth with bits. Pret does both sorts, for example, and everything is "soup".

>215 SandyAMcPherson: Sandy, I'll be straight over to look :-)

Gee, this is predictable ~ I feel very snackish ... I wonder if the biscuit tins have any left over Christmas goodies?

>216 susanj67: I'm not sure I fancy being left in the fridge, but if I'm anything with chocolate sauce maybe I'm a fan of me after all >;-)

I, apparently, don't speak 'Merican, scoring a measley 4/10, but am certified British with 10/10.
*phew*

>218 SandyAMcPherson: Sandy, I had to resort to a Clementine hot cross bun (the supermarket isn't early for Easter - they have hot cross buns year-round here).

>219 Helenliz: Helen, the Helene was never in the fridge for very long :-)

I might do a NZ English quiz tomorrow and see how y'all get on with that.

I got 9/10 on the American quiz (sorry, I didn't know what specifically a rutabaga is....) and 5/10 on the British.

Some random comments:

When I hear a Brit say "pudding" I assume they mean dessert. Pudding to me is what Julia said - a very specific type of (gross) dessert.

I say iced tea all the time. The only time I've not heard the iced part in relation to the cold drink is in the South where people will order Sweet Tea.

Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are AWESOME, though I prefer mine with ja rather than jelly.

Soup is soup is soup. I've never heard of it only relating to the broth with bits kind or the creamy kind. Now what makes a bisque rather than a soup eludes me....

>221 katiekrug: Now what makes a bisque rather than a soup eludes me.... I know that one. Bisque is to soup as jelly is to jam. They are basically the same, but one is sieved and so is smooth, whereas its pair is not.

I've done peanut butter & jam sandwiches, it's analogous to having fruit & nut chocolate - and I do that all the time. It wasn't awful, but I do prefer a slice of peanut butter and one of jam separately.

>221 katiekrug: I agree with the iced tea comment. I often order it and always specify "iced tea" because otherwise they have to ask whether I want it hot or cold. If I order "tea" I generally get hot without question (but not always I will admit).

>221 katiekrug: What Katie said re iced tea, although here in the Midwest you're just as likely to hear 'ice tea'. Definitely not just tea, though I'd hazard a guess that iced tea is drunk in far greater quantities than hot tea. Except by the people in my office, who are almost all dedicated hot tea drinkers.

I'm loving this conversation :)

Oh, Susan, I have to tell you - The Wayne just texted me from Twitter OneTeam (they bring all 4000+ employees from around the world to one location for 3 days and do interesting things and hear from interesting people) and your boyfriend, Elon, is speaking right now at their closing session. He's not there, but they have a live video feed. My response was "ick" but I know you luuurve him :)

>223 RebaRelishesReading: Yes, but I neglected to add that if you just order "tea" in the south you are likely to get a glass of cloyingly sweet iced tea *shudder*. Pre-sweetened iced tea is unusual in the rest of the country and would come with the modifier "sweet" to warn you if it was.

>226 RebaRelishesReading: Yes, important to add that, Reba. I learned quickly on my first trip south to specify "unsweet" or "regular" tea, as I find the sweet stuff fairly undrinkable.

Sweet tea is disgusting and another reason to avoid the South altogether ;-)

>226 RebaRelishesReading: usually in Canada we order iced tea and it comes sweetened. Sweet tea and unsweetened iced tea are generally an American thing.

I am also loving this conversation. And learning things, so this is an educational thread.

>226 RebaRelishesReading: Yes, and it is DISGUSTING. It will take the enamel off of your teeth with a single swallow.

>228 katiekrug: Ahem. I still live here. But, um...yeah.

Well, I am only 200+ posts behind, lol. I will not tell you how many BBs you have already hit me with this year.

On the subject of tea, the only kind I care for is hot and unsweetened - and I live in Texas!

I don't care for sugar in tea or coffee, although I used to have this as a boy. If I am feeling faint I would have hot tea with sugar but only then.

>221 katiekrug: Katie, I half-guessed rutabaga, but I am pleased to say that, thanks to the Pioneer Woman, I finally know what collard greens are :-) Iced tea is not really a thing here, but does exist in a sweetened version found in the chiller cabinet. I had a Snapple iced tea in New York years ago and loved it, but to my mind nothing can beat the Arnold Palmer (which, for those who, like me, had no idea, is half lemonade and half iced tea, something I also discovered in NY). I enthused about it to my US client, and he looked appalled :-)

>222 Helenliz: Helen, funnily enough I often have toast for dinner (or maybe "dinner") and have one slice with PB and one with jam. It would just never occur to me to slap 'em together to make a sandwich. Interesting about bisque! I had no idea.

>223 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, I'll share my favourite tea anecdote, which is the time I went to McDonald's and ordered "black tea". The girl looked at me solemnly and said they didn't have black tea. "Well then," I said, "just ordinary tea without the milk." They had that :-)

>224 rosalita: Julia, iced (or ice :-)) tea does seem to be popular in the US. Super-Fit Friend insists that iced tea is alcoholic, but I said that it was just Long Island Iced Tea...

>225 katiekrug: Katie, OMG! So envious! And what a great speaker, what with him being one of their highest-profile users and all. I don't know how the General Counsel of Tesla can sleep at night for fear of what might pop up on the Twitter, though :-) And I've had to give him up as my pretend-boyfriend, because it seems that his girlfriend Grimes (real name: Claire Boucher, as the Daily Mail would say) is expecting a happy event.

>226 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, clearly I am going to need careful supervision in restaurants on my LT retirement tour of the US :-)

>227 rosalita: Julia, I may have to start a list of phrases, like for foreign countries...

>228 katiekrug: Um...(looking further down the thread...)

>229 ChelleBearss: Chelle, maybe that could be Prince Harry's new bad habit, as Meghan made him give up smoking :-)

>230 Crazymamie: Hi Mamie-in-the-South! The tea disadvantages are totally cancelled out by you being there :-)

>231 alcottacre: Hi Stasia! I'm also a hot + unsweetened fan, but that's not so unusual in the UK (although most people here seem to have milk, which I don't)

>232 PaulCranswick: Paul, I struggle not to have sweet things, but for some reason I've never fancied sweet tea. And I no longer have sugar in coffee.

Yesterday's "Srsly, is it me? Or..."

An email arrived from the company that stores my will.

"We are currently storing your will and just wanted to let you know that your annual Storage {sic} payment is due.

Please see bank details below so you can organise a direct transfer of this payment;

{bank details}

Please confirm once this payment has been made and we shall confirm safe receipt.

Alternatively, please feel free to call the office on {number} and a member of our team can take your payment over the phone..."

I read this carefully (twice), but a key piece of information was missing. So I rang them up to make my payment. I pointed out that the email didn't say how much the payment *was*, hence my call. The girl seemed uninterested in this, took my credit card number and emailed me a receipt. I wasn't sure whether the email was from the person I'd spoken to, so I emailed back repeating that there was no amount given in the original email (so no-one receiving the template email would be able to use the bank transfer route). And that produced this:

"Hi Susan,

Thanks for your email.

Thank you for letting me know. I have passed this on to my Managing Director who will look into this and try and make it more clear for the future..."

Evidently putting the characters "£17.50" into an email template can only be attempted, but not guaranteed. Who knew?

≥229 Iced tea generally comes sweetened in Canada!!?! Who knew? I'll have to remember to watch out for that. Actually, I do sweeten my tea a little (both hot and cold-- and no milk please in either), it's just that they put SO MUCH SUGAR in in the south.

>228 katiekrug: Sorry Mamie but I have to agree with Katie.

>233 susanj67: I'd be happy to escort (and protect) you anytime you care to visit, Susan.

>234 susanj67: Good heavens! You have to wonder what some people have for brains!

>234 susanj67: OMG Phishing? Scammers?

In our parts of the world, we go INTO the bank/business and arrange this type of payment. I'm worrying your bank account will be drained. (I'm paranoid about this type of thing...)

In our household, the lawyer who drew up our wills stores the originals, free of charge...

>235 RebaRelishesReading: Um...Reba, I was giving Katie a hard time because she said, "... another reason to avoid the South altogether ;-)" You are aware that I live in the Deep South, yes?! *looks sternly over the top of her glasses* I completely agree with her about the sweet tea - I don't drink it.

Hello, Susan!! Happy Friday!

>235 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, yes, I am wondering...:-) Young People Today.

>236 SandyAMcPherson: Sandy, no, it wasn't scamming - it was a real email and I rang them and paid with a credit card so nothing terrible will happen to my bank account :-). Funnily enough I'd been thinking that the payment must be due, and then the email arrived a couple of days later. They're a will-writing company (common here, and useful for people with very straightforward arrangements) and they write to my brother every year to remind him that they're holding the will, in case anything should happen to me. So that's useful. The actual drafting of the will was fine but I think their admin arrangements let them down.

My roomie has just left, as she is starting a new job. She gave me the cutest little teapot, with a cup underneath it :-) I can't decide whether to keep it here in the office or take it home. I'm not sure who my new roomie will be yet, so that's a surprise for next week.

>234 susanj67: No, not just you. I'm rolling my eyes in sympathy with you.

>236 SandyAMcPherson: I'm not sure I even know where my nearest bank is these days. The one in the town closed 7 or 8 years ago and the one in the next town 2 years ago.

>237 Crazymamie: Hi Mamie! Happy Friday back! My day is coming to an end, so I'm going to tour the "Winter Lights" festival here at the Wharf: https://canarywharf.com/arts-events/events/winter-lights-jan-2020/?instance_id= (you can see the installations by clicking on the numbered white bars). Well, I'm going to do some of it, anyway. It's on till the end of next week, so I might split it over two or three nights depending on how cold it is out there.

>238 susanj67: fingers crossed for a nice occupant to share the hutch...

>239 Helenliz: Helen, just when I think I've seen everything...I agree re the banks. HSBC has three (!) counters in a small branch here at the Wharf (where 100,000+ people work, admittedly not all HSBC customers) but their big fancy branch has none at all. I don't like doing bank transfers anyway. It's far easier to ring up with a card or write a cheque (not that I could immediately locate my chequebook, as I only use it twice a year for my service charge payments...)

>241 Helenliz: Thanks Helen. I'm kinda hoping I don't get a boy, because they tend to like it very cold whereas I'm more of a greenhouse-temperature sort of person. But boys generally come with less drama. The just-left-roomie wasn't a drama llama but the one before that could have been the picture for "drama" in the dictionary.

>237 Crazymamie: Yes, Mamie, I know where you live but I did say I was sorry -- Plus, your " But, um...yeah." made me think I could get by with it. :)

A Long Night in Paris is 99p on kindle right now, Susan, if you were in the market for some high quality crime fiction...

>233 susanj67: >235 RebaRelishesReading: I don't think our iced tea is quite as sweet as southern sweet tea. Have you ever had Lipton Iced tea in the bottles? That's generally what most restaurants here would use, if they don't make it fresh.

>244 RebaRelishesReading: Reba, I'm not *sure* you're getting away with it :-)

>245 charl08: Ooh, thanks Charlotte! I snagged it. I looked it up when you first mentioned it, so I'm very pleased to get it for 99p :-)

>246 ChelleBearss: Chelle, I can't think of the brand of iced tea that I've tried, but I googled Lipton and discovered that they have new cold brew iced tea bags launching here in May, so I will have to try those!

I think this is my longest ever thread, so I'd better start a new one. BRB!