kino eye queer eye : "drag" & gender-bending
Talk The Silent Screen & Early Sound Film
Join LibraryThing to post.
1LolaWalser
I love picking up instances of this in film, especially early, and especially of women in "male" drag because it's relatively less frequent.
Which might be interesting to discuss why it is so... Is it because men in female drag are usually comedic (imposed interpretation), but women dressed as men are usually threatening (subliminally)?
An example from Protéa (1913) I posted about in the Latest Seen thread:
Protéa takes a soldier hostage at gunpoint:
And exchanges clothes with him:
Which might be interesting to discuss why it is so... Is it because men in female drag are usually comedic (imposed interpretation), but women dressed as men are usually threatening (subliminally)?
An example from Protéa (1913) I posted about in the Latest Seen thread:
Protéa takes a soldier hostage at gunpoint:
And exchanges clothes with him:
2LolaWalser
One thing I particularly appreciate is when characters with ambivalent gender and/or sexual orientation appear "just because", casually, in passing. For example here, in the 1931 version of Der Greifer with Hans Albers--the woman on the right isn't even a speaking character nor is the scene one of a bar or an arty soirée or some such... Albers just happens to walk into a scene (she is walking past the door he just exited) with a woman who is coded as butch lesbian. It looks as if he makes some kind of remark but maybe not, I don't recall.
3alaudacorax
Haha! When you get up in the morning you can't imagine what the day will bring---never imagined I'd shortly have cause to liken Marlene Dietrich to an elephant in the room ...
4LolaWalser
Elephant, really? Would you call a man her size "an elephant"?
5alaudacorax
>4 LolaWalser:
Hmm ... it may have something to do with the fact that it's four in the morning here and I'm half asleep, but I really can't tell if you're joking or not ... I should go to bed ...
Anyway, quite the wrong metaphor---'the elephant in the room' presupposes something people are too embarrassed to mention---not at all what I meant. Just couldn't imagine you writing the top two posts without picturing Marlene in top hat and tails pinching that lady's rose.
And I couldn't resist hunting up that scene on YouTube and another half-hour's gone and now the dawn is ... dawning and all I want to do is to watch old Marlene Dietrich films I haven't seen in decades---really must go to bed ...
Hmm ... it may have something to do with the fact that it's four in the morning here and I'm half asleep, but I really can't tell if you're joking or not ... I should go to bed ...
Anyway, quite the wrong metaphor---'the elephant in the room' presupposes something people are too embarrassed to mention---not at all what I meant. Just couldn't imagine you writing the top two posts without picturing Marlene in top hat and tails pinching that lady's rose.
And I couldn't resist hunting up that scene on YouTube and another half-hour's gone and now the dawn is ... dawning and all I want to do is to watch old Marlene Dietrich films I haven't seen in decades---really must go to bed ...
6alaudacorax
The woman in >2 LolaWalser: would seem to have been rather a trope. I'm sure I've seen her in a lot of old films played by actors with very similar shape, clothes and hair-style.
7LolaWalser
I know what the phrase "elephant in the room" means; since you posted it after >2 LolaWalser: I thought you were alluding to those images. Sorry about the confusion, but as I'm only getting more confused here, probably best to move on... :)
Yes, I guess Marlene in the top hat etc. is the best known example of a "woman in male drag" although hers is, to my mind, a special sort of example, that of someone merely "performing" drag, not living it.
The woman in >2 LolaWalser: is an example of someone who lives 100% with a different gender expression than what is the norm for her gender. She's not sporting "male" clothes and haircut in order to entertain people, she's just living her life (probably an employee in the police station or whatever office that is--Albers is a police inspector, the film is a crime story).
Here is another example opposite to Dietrich's, that of the lesbian Countess Geschwitz in Pandora's box.
Unlike the woman in Der Greifer, the countess uses makeup and feminine apparel (she's wearing an open-back gown in her most famous scene, dancing with Lulu), but not always:
That is as glamorous as Dietrich's get-up, but not worn as a joke, to titillate an audience. Here she is being queer like the woman in Der Greifer, expressing herself in her own self, not a fake persona like Dietrich's in that particular role in Morocco.
Yes, I guess Marlene in the top hat etc. is the best known example of a "woman in male drag" although hers is, to my mind, a special sort of example, that of someone merely "performing" drag, not living it.
The woman in >2 LolaWalser: is an example of someone who lives 100% with a different gender expression than what is the norm for her gender. She's not sporting "male" clothes and haircut in order to entertain people, she's just living her life (probably an employee in the police station or whatever office that is--Albers is a police inspector, the film is a crime story).
Here is another example opposite to Dietrich's, that of the lesbian Countess Geschwitz in Pandora's box.
Unlike the woman in Der Greifer, the countess uses makeup and feminine apparel (she's wearing an open-back gown in her most famous scene, dancing with Lulu), but not always:
That is as glamorous as Dietrich's get-up, but not worn as a joke, to titillate an audience. Here she is being queer like the woman in Der Greifer, expressing herself in her own self, not a fake persona like Dietrich's in that particular role in Morocco.
8robertajl
I'm not sure if Filibus, made in 1915 quite fits in here but the main character, who we first see as Baroness Troixmonde has two alter egos--the thief Filibus (dresses as a male) and the debonair Count de la Brive, who seems to enjoy flirting with the ladies. Who's to say that one of these personas is more important than the others? Plus the movie has: a hi-tech dirigible, improbable capers and daring escapes! When I saw it on YouTube there was a version with English intertitles but I can't find it now. Other versions are still there. It's not hard to figure out what's going on and there's a synopsis on Wikipedia.
9LolaWalser
>8 robertajl:
That sounds great! *firing up search*
For my part, I find any instance of "cross-dressing" interesting, so please don't hesitate to note them as they come along.
That sounds great! *firing up search*
For my part, I find any instance of "cross-dressing" interesting, so please don't hesitate to note them as they come along.
10lilithcat
>8 robertajl:
Thank you for that recommendation. I've just watched it, and enjoyed it very much. I was definitely rooting for the Countess/Filibus/de la Brive!
Too bad WWI interfered with the suggested sequels.
I noticed that the Countess was careful, in her notes to the detective as Filibus, to use the male gender in referring to herself. I was reminded of Dorothy L. Sayers' short story, The Entertaining Episode of the Article in Question, in which Peter Wimsey's suspicions are aroused when a French thief and female impersonator slips and says "Me prends-tu pour un imbécile?", rather than une imbecile.
Thank you for that recommendation. I've just watched it, and enjoyed it very much. I was definitely rooting for the Countess/Filibus/de la Brive!
Too bad WWI interfered with the suggested sequels.
I noticed that the Countess was careful, in her notes to the detective as Filibus, to use the male gender in referring to herself. I was reminded of Dorothy L. Sayers' short story, The Entertaining Episode of the Article in Question, in which Peter Wimsey's suspicions are aroused when a French thief and female impersonator slips and says "Me prends-tu pour un imbécile?", rather than une imbecile.
11robertajl
Another movie with cross-dressing is A Florida Enchantment, made in 1914. Lillian Travers is engaged to Dr. Frederick Cassadene. He's in Florida so she comes to visit, staying with her aunt. In a shop, she buys a box that contains some seeds and a note that says the seeds change women into men and men into women. She becomes jealous of her fiancé's contact with other women and, to teach him a lesson, eats a seed. She immediately begins acting like a man and starts flirting and kissing women. Deciding she needs a valet, she feeds a seed to her maid, with similar results. Later, they both begin dressing as men and Lilian Travers becomes Lawrence Talbot. Cassadene accuses Lawrence of murdering Lillian for her money. Lawrence tells him what happened, Cassadene doesn't believe it and eats a seed to prove it. He begins acting in a very effeminate manner and starts wearing dresses.
The movie's on YouTube at https://youtu.be/ee_435UBxNo. It's only about an hour long, even though it's listed as two. Also, be forewarned that there are actors in blackface and lots of stereotypes.
The movie's called the first lesbian film by some. To me, it's all just played for comedy, but many people interpret it differently. I found it fun to watch, largely because of Edith Storey, who plays Lillian/Lawrence. I thought she was great. I did think, and maybe it's because I'm reading Middlemarch, that Cassadene is way, way too old for Lillian.
The two stars, Sidney Drew, who both directed and played Cassadene, and Edith Storey are pretty much forgotten now but were very well known during their careers.
Sidney Drew was related to the Barrymores. He had a long career on the stage and in films. He generally worked with his wife. His first wife was Gladys Rankin, then, when she died, he married Lucille McVey. They made comedy one-reelers, and he specialized in playing lighthearted leading men. He directed several films, including A Florida Enchantment for Vitagraph. Mr. and Mrs. Drew have a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.
Edith Storey started acting as a child. She was a big star, known for her talent and athleticism, and a favorite of Mary Pickford. In 1917, when the US entered WWI, she dropped out of the film industry. She drove a war ambulance in New York, which means she transported injured soldiers from incoming ships to the hospitals. When the influenza epidemic hit, she became a night nurse, working in New York hospitals. Her film career never recovered and she only made a few more films after the war. She also has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Storey loved to drive. Here's a picture of her with her Winton 6.
The movie's on YouTube at https://youtu.be/ee_435UBxNo. It's only about an hour long, even though it's listed as two. Also, be forewarned that there are actors in blackface and lots of stereotypes.
The movie's called the first lesbian film by some. To me, it's all just played for comedy, but many people interpret it differently. I found it fun to watch, largely because of Edith Storey, who plays Lillian/Lawrence. I thought she was great. I did think, and maybe it's because I'm reading Middlemarch, that Cassadene is way, way too old for Lillian.
The two stars, Sidney Drew, who both directed and played Cassadene, and Edith Storey are pretty much forgotten now but were very well known during their careers.
Sidney Drew was related to the Barrymores. He had a long career on the stage and in films. He generally worked with his wife. His first wife was Gladys Rankin, then, when she died, he married Lucille McVey. They made comedy one-reelers, and he specialized in playing lighthearted leading men. He directed several films, including A Florida Enchantment for Vitagraph. Mr. and Mrs. Drew have a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.
Edith Storey started acting as a child. She was a big star, known for her talent and athleticism, and a favorite of Mary Pickford. In 1917, when the US entered WWI, she dropped out of the film industry. She drove a war ambulance in New York, which means she transported injured soldiers from incoming ships to the hospitals. When the influenza epidemic hit, she became a night nurse, working in New York hospitals. Her film career never recovered and she only made a few more films after the war. She also has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Storey loved to drive. Here's a picture of her with her Winton 6.
12thorold
Back at the silly end of things, I spotted Chaplin’s short Behind the screen (1916), where he plays a stagehand in a film studio (convenient!). Edna Purviance plays a girl who, having failed to get an acting job, struggles into a spare set of overalls and a cloth cap and starts carrying a hammer around the set. Charlot is obviously attracted, even before he works out that there’s a girl in there somewhere, which he does when her hat falls off. The foreman (the vast, inimitable Eric Campbell) catches them kissing and does a little bit of mincing to show his contempt for that sort of thing...
Not really a triumph of queer cinema, but it does end in a superbly out-of-control custard-pie fight.
Restored copy here: https://youtu.be/t38ZHUb0S68
Not really a triumph of queer cinema, but it does end in a superbly out-of-control custard-pie fight.
Restored copy here: https://youtu.be/t38ZHUb0S68
13LolaWalser
>12 thorold:
Ha! Delish.
I'm behind watching the stuff people have recommended here (trying to finish entering music as a priority, since I started in... 2008!) but it's all waiting... for now, just a comparison, because I can:
the character from >8 robertajl: (in Filibus) and Cissy Meldrum from You rang, m'lord?
I only caught a few episodes as it first aired but Cissy left a huge impression (even if I do typically fall for girls in dresses...)
Ha! Delish.
I'm behind watching the stuff people have recommended here (trying to finish entering music as a priority, since I started in... 2008!) but it's all waiting... for now, just a comparison, because I can:
the character from >8 robertajl: (in Filibus) and Cissy Meldrum from You rang, m'lord?
I only caught a few episodes as it first aired but Cissy left a huge impression (even if I do typically fall for girls in dresses...)
14thorold
>13 LolaWalser: Oh yes, that was a great show, Perry and Croft at their best and a brilliant cast. Miss Cissy is magnificent, even though we know really that she's just a new version of the old sit-com cliché of the character so camp and effeminate that he does everything except actually have sex with men (cf. Are you being served, It ain't half hot mum, 'Allo 'allo, and a thousand others).
I loved the way that show made Downton Abbey look like a crude reverse-parody of it!
I loved the way that show made Downton Abbey look like a crude reverse-parody of it!
15thorold
Here's one we haven't done yet: Danish mega-star Asta Nielsen made her own version of Hamlet in 1921, with herself in the lead role. It makes a few small but significant corrections to the Shakespeare play, such as dispensing with the Ghost and the skull, cutting out most of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, and having the characters travel back and forth between Denmark and Norway on horseback instead of by ship (they were filming in Berlin: the Wannsee probably wasn't considered suitable for piracy on the high seas). And it adds a prologue in which we learn that Gertrude's child was born female at a moment when it was politically essential for there to be a male heir, requiring young Hamlet to be brought up as a boy.
So, unlike most cross-dressing Hamlets, Ms Nielsen is not simply a female actor playing a man, but a female actor playing a male-impersonator. Hamlet in this version is madly in love with his/her college pal Horatio, and becomes seriously jealous when he seems to have eyes only for Ophelia. Young Fortinbras also feels his loins stirring strangely at the sight of the young prince with his lovely legs. So it's the old story of creating a queer frisson whilst reassuring the audience that there's actually nothing untoward going on.
It could easily have become nothing more than an opportunity for Asta to strut around in tights and a short doublet for two hours (which she is very good at, so why not?), but it also turns out to be quite a serious attempt to work out where that dramatic idea would lead: would a female prince be a closer match to Shakespeare's Hamlet than a man? The film's main problem is simply the old one that if you turn Hamlet into dumbshow, there's no longer any real difference between the actual play and the play-within-a-play. Shakespeare is all about the dialogue, and there's a limit to what you can do with intertitles, especially if they are written in Fraktur.
Hamlet and Horatio share a pencil in the lecture-room at Wittenberg:
Get thee to a nunnery!
So, unlike most cross-dressing Hamlets, Ms Nielsen is not simply a female actor playing a man, but a female actor playing a male-impersonator. Hamlet in this version is madly in love with his/her college pal Horatio, and becomes seriously jealous when he seems to have eyes only for Ophelia. Young Fortinbras also feels his loins stirring strangely at the sight of the young prince with his lovely legs. So it's the old story of creating a queer frisson whilst reassuring the audience that there's actually nothing untoward going on.
It could easily have become nothing more than an opportunity for Asta to strut around in tights and a short doublet for two hours (which she is very good at, so why not?), but it also turns out to be quite a serious attempt to work out where that dramatic idea would lead: would a female prince be a closer match to Shakespeare's Hamlet than a man? The film's main problem is simply the old one that if you turn Hamlet into dumbshow, there's no longer any real difference between the actual play and the play-within-a-play. Shakespeare is all about the dialogue, and there's a limit to what you can do with intertitles, especially if they are written in Fraktur.
Hamlet and Horatio share a pencil in the lecture-room at Wittenberg:
Get thee to a nunnery!
16LolaWalser
Heh, what a cross-post. That's an epic example of cross-dressed role for sure.
(Forgot to comment >14 thorold:--I get the impression Mr. Humphries had a fine sex life, TYVM. Forever partying with sailors and such... :))
Once you start watching out for this, it seems everywhere! Even in one of the D. W. Griffith shorts we mentioned in another thread, there is a girl who takes over the role of her (cowardly) brother and goes off to war in male disguise. Forgot to take a pic...
(Forgot to comment >14 thorold:--I get the impression Mr. Humphries had a fine sex life, TYVM. Forever partying with sailors and such... :))
Once you start watching out for this, it seems everywhere! Even in one of the D. W. Griffith shorts we mentioned in another thread, there is a girl who takes over the role of her (cowardly) brother and goes off to war in male disguise. Forgot to take a pic...
17lilithcat
>15 thorold:
I saw that film at the University of Chicago's Rockefeller Chapel a couple of years ago, along with new music written specifically for the film. Really quite an interesting take on the play.
I saw that film at the University of Chicago's Rockefeller Chapel a couple of years ago, along with new music written specifically for the film. Really quite an interesting take on the play.
18thorold
>15 thorold: >16 LolaWalser: ...and another one here: https://youtu.be/TeDpK8Z37L0
Just a short clip from a film called Zapatas Bande from 1914, hard to make sense of out of context, it seems to be a comedy about a film-crew making an early spaghetti-western, but the clip has Nielsen in full bandit drag (gun-belt, trousers with one leg missing, hat with gigantic feather) being kissed on the lips by a countess whose landau she has held up by mistake.
Just a short clip from a film called Zapatas Bande from 1914, hard to make sense of out of context, it seems to be a comedy about a film-crew making an early spaghetti-western, but the clip has Nielsen in full bandit drag (gun-belt, trousers with one leg missing, hat with gigantic feather) being kissed on the lips by a countess whose landau she has held up by mistake.
