M. R. James

I was making a post on M. R. James a short while ago and it struck me as odd that we don't have a thread on him, seeing as how frequently he crops up here.

Then I wondered, "Hang on ... is he really a writer of Gothic literature ... seeing as he's primarily noted as a ghost story writer who, in the words of Wikipedia, 'redefined the ghost story for the new century by abandoning many of the formal Gothic clichés of his predecessors and using more realistic contemporary settings.'"

So then I was puzzled as to whether he really deserved a thread here after all. I thought I'd better make a thread and ask about it. I'll call it 'M. R. James' ...

Interesting question.

Thinking over some of his stories I can see some Gothic elements in a few of them. For example, “Lost Hearts” has a house with a secret. However, it moves quickly into ghost territory.

I would see an argument for considering some of his stories as hybrid or cross-over regarding Gothic and ghost story.

This promises to be an interesting discussion and is likely to prompt my long overdue reread of James’s stories.

My (very unscientific) gut feeling is that James isn't Gothic. I think it's the general tone of the stories rather than the subject matter. I came his stories, as near as I can remember - it must be nearly 30 years ago - from the Sherlock Holmes canon and Jorge Luis Borges. When I read other classic ghost story writers - not even Gothics as such - I didn't immediately come around to the heightened emotion and the family secrets - all the "Gothic clichés in fact, but missed James' donnish detachment and understatement.

M R James is often considered as being a gothic writer, whether right or wrong. Over on the M R James Appreciation Page on Facebook, there is one teacher who teaches James in higher education as part of his 'Gothic' class. I also note that James is in some Gothic anthologies (for example 'Oh Whistle and I'll Come to you, My Lad' and 'The Story of a Disappearance and an Appearance' are included in the 2022 publication 'Christmas Gothic Short Stories: Anthology of New and Classic Tales'). Part of the problem is probably the definition of 'gothic'. What does it necessarily include? What does it necessarily exclude? Are there any blurred lines? (And don't look to me for answers).

My own two pence, I can see the argument that James isn't gothic - there is no heightened emotion, no romanticism, he avoids the typical gothic tropes. However, on the other hand, his material is supernatural; it sometimes involves curses attached to objects or places; there is an atmosphere of mystery and suspense; there are descriptions of gloom and decay; the settings are sometimes desolate; and, although his churches are described in a matter of fact way, they are often as scary as Dracula's castle (to me). So, I think there are gothic elements in his work. Some of his pieces do read like gothic literature to me, particularly 'Count Magnus'.

I must be overdue a reread of MRJ ... a post turned up on my facebook feed this morning asking 'Who is your favourite M. R. James verger?' I don't remember enough to even guess at an answer ...

And why on earth is a post from before Xmas turning up on my facebook feed only this morning? Second thoughts: it's probably because every morning I can only scroll down past so much irrelevant clickbait before logging-off in disgust. You really should be able to filter for accounts you actually follow ...

>5 alaudacorax:

I'm on good form this morning—did you notice how I refrained from bringing in Zuckerberg or pins and wax dolls? I really wish my family would use some alternative to facebook, though.

>5 alaudacorax:

Err ... I was not raised C. of E. and I've just discovered that, for all of my adult life, I've been confounding vergers with sextons, with no clear idea of what either really was. Thanks Wikipedia. Now I probably really need a reread of at least the relevant MRJ stories.

>7 alaudacorax:

To be fair, the definitions in my New Shorter Oxford and the much fuller Wikipedia entries both say there is a large overlap in the two roles.

I wasn't raised C of E either. I was forced very much against my will to attend a Methodist sunday school for a time, but it doesn't amount to being raised in any tradition. The fact is, however interesting I might find it in the abstract, any actual, live, religious service is absolute kryptonite to me.

I should also confess here that I didn't manage to read MRJ over the Christmas period. There was of course too much going on. Plus, I struggle with the wish to keep my books as pristine as possible (including the paperbacks) with finding a time and a place to read them - during meals? danger of food spatter. Commuting - bashed edges, rain coming in the bus window. And so on.

>9 housefulofpaper:
I know the problem; I will only read my Swan River Press and Tartarus Press books when seated in a book safe environment. I also remove the dust jackets when I am reading one of them to avoid creasing them or getting them marked or stained.

Now that it's been mentioned, I realise I didn't watch, read or listen to any traditional ghost story stuff over Christmas, either.

>10 pgmcc:

I'm gradually falling out of love with my Kindle, but it is one of its virtues that it can be safely read around spag bol or the like. I find I'm always tempted to pick it up with food even when I'm not ... er, officially ... currently reading anything on it.

>11 alaudacorax:

I did manage to see Mark Gatiss' adaptation of The Room in the Tower on Christmas Eve. This was the first E. F. Benson ghost story done as a "Ghost Story for Christmas". As far as I can remember it's a faithful adaptation of the story, but set within a WWII frame narrative which rehashes Gatiss' favoured themes for these short films: a kind of "appointment at Samarra" unavoidable fate, and a gruesome revenant as the final reveal/final shot.

>13 housefulofpaper:

Ah! I'd heard of that before Christmas but ... the usual family stuff on Christmas Eve ... I'd completely forgotten about it until I saw your post. Must watch it tonight. In fact my memories of the other four the iPlayer is listing are so hazy I think I could enjoyably binge-watch the lot.

>13 housefulofpaper:

I've just watched The Room in the Tower. I thought it was well done—lots of ominous tension—and, as you said, quite faithful to the story, the framing device apart. The only thing I was a little unsure of was that there seemed to be rather a lot of CGI or AI or whatever. The bedroom in particular didn't seem quite real to me.

>15 alaudacorax:

When I wrote 'unsure' I meant I really wasn't sure whether I liked it or not.

>16 alaudacorax:

I didn't notice any CGI (apart from the ghost effects) on that first viewing. I know these stories are done on a shoestring and usually involve securing one suitable location for all the scenes. But I might well have just missed it. At this point, I expect CGI is cheaper than building a physical set.

>10 pgmcc:

I've started covering my books. I suffered some damage due to damp and mould. I think I've said before that the culprit turned out to be a neighbour's tree roots blocking a downpipe. The mould was particularly attracted to the underside of a dustjacket, which was exposed on books slightly taller than their neighbours, where the jacket puffed out slightly, away from the side of the book.

The mould wasn't the black mould you might hope to brush off, incidentally. Rather, it was like bread mould - deep into the paper and making a greasy-looking stain.

Also, lack of space means these shelves are right by the front door so could always be vulnerable to rain-soaked clothes or careless workmen, and so forth. They also gets dusty, hence the yellow dusters laid over the top edges (a member in the Fine Press Forum group uses what I believe are bespoke leather covers; YouTuber Jules Burt has some beer towels doing the job).

Paperbacks are now going into comic bags (you can see one tall one - Spicilege- has got onto Crown Octavo hardback shelf - I think that's the correct name for this size of book).

>18 housefulofpaper:
I have just finished reading a book of Christmas ghost stories and your tale of books riddled with mould has horrified me more than any of those tales. Fortunately I have not suffered such book damage, but am always wary of potential attacks on my treasured volumes. My more treasured books are stored on the higher shelves and in plastic boxes to prevent damp attacks. I take care not to place bookcases where the sun might shine upon them to avoid fading.

I had never thought of putting clothes over the tops of books resigning myself to occasional bursts of energy to brush the dust off the tops of the books that have not been disturbed for a while. I can see my acquiring some suitable cloths in the near future. I have a few of the type I see in your photograph, so I can make a start with the books most vulnerable to dust accumulation.

At the moment my collection of Swan River Press hardbacks is shelved on one shelf. As it is a complete set of the hardbacks the books form two rows on the one shelf. I know, scurrilous, but one's home does not permit the instillation of an infinite number of bookcases. The next SRP hardback will necessitate continuation on another shelf. Logic dictates that if be shelf on which my Green Book collection sits. The issue will be deciding which books to dislodge from that shelf to make space for SRP and where to dislodge them to. Such are the trials and tribulations of bibliophiles like us.

I am still a bit shaken by the images of the moulded books you have caused to form in my mind. This will haunt me. I may not sleep tonight. That is not really a big problem as I do not sleep most nights.

I see you have The Bleeding Horse and Other Ghost Stories. The title story includes a Mr McClean as the manager of the Bleeding Horse. Brian used my name as a little thank you for my having him as a guest at conventions and as a nod to my father having been a publican.

>19 pgmcc:
After some amateurish and rather rough attempts at neutralising the mould and minimising the damage I found something sold as chloromine T which promises to kill the fungus on the initial application while repeat applications will "help to bleach discolouration". Although I've been left with some scraped and cockled dustjackets and stained books, I think in the end I've only had to dispose of two dustjackets and one book. But yes, it was upsetting, not least because it was the books proudly out on display that got attacked.

Fascinating to learn of your connection to the Bleeding Horse. I do have more of Brian's books, I just need the time to read them (despite all the arguments, from luminaries such as Umberto Eco on down, that you shouldn't need to read all the books you own, anymore than, say, be required to use all the tools in your workshop or shed, I do feel uncomfortable if I can't say I've read or at least am reading what's on my shelves. So most of my Swan River Press titles were safe and sound in boxes during the damp problem.

Hm. Almost all my tools (or sets of tools in the case of things like spanners or drill bits) have been bought with some specific immediate need in mind. I've surely used a higher proportion than I've read of my books.

I had a friend who noted that the person who asks if one has "read all of these books" never asks whether a wine enthusiast has "drunk all the bottles in your wine cellar."

Anyway, each book is part of more than just a pile of books. It's an artifact of time, taste and interest. It means something to the owner before it is ever cracked open.

>22 rtttt01: Two good points, very well put. I shall nick them for my own use!

>23 DuncanHill:

Echo here. Especially the wine cellar analogy. I'm definitely going tor remember that one ...

>23 DuncanHill: Always good to have some rejoinders ready. I'm convinced, though, that many folks will never get it, and that's fine.

>24 alaudacorax: Credit for the analogy goes to the late Rebekah Brown.