Why are libraries called >libraries

Hi there,
Im from germany and wondering, why you english folks call your libraries >librarybibliotheke

And indeed in French, "librairie" is the word for "bookshop".

Thanks for answering!
As far as I know is the meaning of the latin word >librariabilbliothecalibrariusbibliothecariusbibliotheque

Separation of church and state? For US public, there was no confusion--library doesn't have biblical connotation. For other countries, some of the oldest libraries were connected with the church.

Re: message 6

Βιβλιον is simply Greek for 'book'. The religious connotation came later, as the Christian guide to stuff became known as 'The' Book.

Ah, but the thing is that up until the 16th Century, librairie was a synonym of bibliothèque in French.

Separation of church and state?

Can't see what that has to do with it. There's no separation of church and state in England!

@MMcM: My French is even worse than my English, so Im not able to understand everything in TLF ;-) But it seems to be a good point. How old is the word "library"?
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Lets have a look at the wiktionary:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Library#Translations
Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian, German, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Polish, Russian, Serbian... All these languages deduced a word from the old Greek. Other languages got their own word or translations. But in the whole holy English-speaking World there is neither a word like "bibliotec" nor "bookery".

How come?

bothur, I think "bookstore" or "bookshop" is the English version. What can we say - English is a bizarre language ... trying to make sense of it will probably only drive you mad.

Im not interested in "sense" - Im interested in history ;-)

Okay. A fuller account historical account.

In Classical Latin, libraria is something female having to do with books. For instance, a female scribe. libraria taberna is a bookseller's shop, and the taberna is often understood and left out. bibliotheca is 'library' (that's what LibraryThing in Latin uses). In Greek, that originally meant 'bookcase', but was already 'library' by then.

Sometime in Late Latin, it acquired the additional sense of 'library'. So, the dialects that became the Romance languages inherited two words. By the time these languages standardized in their modern form, libraria had shifted back to just 'bookstore' and bibliotheca had remained for 'library'. (There was also some slight semantic shift: what it meant to be "a library".)

English took over library from French (well, Anglo-Norman) and preserves the then current sense. Interestingly enough, according to the OED, the word bibliotheque was also fully naturalized into English for a while in the 16th and 17th Centuries. Spelling was not yet standard, so it was variously bibliotecke and so on. By the 18th, it was back to being perceived as a foreign word. If it had survived, it would probably be bibliotec, just as you suggest.

According to Duden, German Bibliothek was taken from the Latin in the 16th Century, as one would expect and consistent with when all this was going on elsewhere.

In Icelandic, which aims more for language purity, the word is bókasafn. safn is from samna, 'gather', which is cognate with English same. I tried to come up with a cognate calque in English, but failed. Büchersammlung works fine in German, though.

Oh, you're just saying that to get me excited. A cognate calque! Air, please, air - I'm all a-tizzy!
I had been working on a mental picture of the Normans dragging "librarie" over the Channel and later pedants trying to put "biblioteque" over on a (couldn't have been very large) public used to the former word. And here you've done all the legwork for me!
Thank you, MMcM!

MMcM, thanks a million! Thats exactly what I hoped to find here on LibraryThing!

So the question is: Why did "library" only survive in English (with the meaning "library")? I know, language and the history of language is full of unbelievable amazing plots. Maybe there is no answer.

To my knowledge, the Bibliotheca Bodleiana for example also was called Bodleian Library, but in other countries the great libraries only were called Latin: "Bibliotheca XX". This at least was the official name, and which talk about libraries was non-official? ;-) For sure, many of the great libraries were in the possession of the church or got financial support. But not all of them.

On the other hand, there existed a so called "Liberey-Ordnung" (library regulations) for the prominent german Herzog-August-Bibliothek, when it was founded in 1572...

My beef is not with the word libary but with the word librarian. The profession being named after the building leads most to believe that everyone who works in a library is a librarian from the pages to the library director. I worked long and hard for my masters degree and it irks me that the lirbary clerks call themselves librarians and that the general public does not distinguish between my position/skills as a librarian and the circulation clerk. Some days I just call myself self-absorbed because I'm caught up on a title, other days I say doctors aren't called hospitalers!

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=library

c.1374, from Anglo-Fr. librarie, from O.Fr. librairie "collection of books," noun use of adj. librarius "concerning books," from L. librarium "chest for books," from liber (gen. libri) "book, paper, parchment," originally "the inner bark of trees," probably a derivative of PIE base *leub(h)- "to strip, to peel" (see leaf). The equivalent word in most Romance languages now means "bookseller's shop." Librarian is from 1713; earlier form was library-keeper (1647).

The first use of the word in the English langauge goes back to the works of Chaucer, which is directly where we trace much of modern English vocabulary to.

#19

I read your message during a break from working public service at the Reference desk on this busy Saturday. Do you want a prescription written by a nurses' aide or a nurse practioner?

20> While I certainly do not wish to diminish the accomplishments or status of librarians who have earned their MLS, your comparison seems rather flawed.

You need the correct training and certification to legally be able to write a prescription so of course, no one would want a prescription written by someone who is not legally allowed to do so. I suspect that it is not illegal or dangerous for a clerk to perform many of the duties a librarian with their MLS is responsible for.

We are "on the front lines" together. The search for financial resources and respect continue as we define what is that we do...what value we add to our services. When we make light of our services and dismiss any efforts, educational or otherwise, involved, people become invisible.

The issues raised in the question are not far removed from librarian's responsibilities. Providing incomplete or inaccurate information about a business or a medication may result in real loss. Librarians in some locations have been warned that they are personally liable for mistakes on the job. In other locations, education and certification for librarians is regulated. We cannot wish that away.

Paraprofessional staff also have some valid concerns. I'm very familiar with those, I worked in those capacities for eight years before I completed an MLS. I don't think, though, that the concerns can be addressed by dismissing other public service staff and claiming the "front lines". That attitude perpetuates the battle mentality.

I can see I am wrong again. I withdraw all past postings. Pardon my metaphor. I had drafted a comment on how professional training is to be desired, yadda-yaddah. But we were getting off topic here, which was of word origin, so I desisted. So let me just reiterate that I am wrong, as usual, and let's get on with "library," if there is any more juice to be had there.

Not entirely. As I said, I've shared a similar job and, maybe, the annoyance that goes with it. All library staff deserve respect. We deliver a public service and, most days, we do it as well we are able. When we work on the basis of shared respect, we do better. And when more of the issues are considered, we work with greater professionalism.

Choice of the word, "library". It is a good question.

To dwell on the subject (for those who care):

According to Grimms German Dictionary the word "liberei" was used in German till 17th century and the "more erudite and accurate form" was "librarey" !

I wish that we would have used a good solid Celtic name for Library. After the Norman Conquest, everything had to have a French flair. Well, I am done with the conquest and taking my language back, one word at a time...might I suggest a good Welsh word for librarianship for starters... Llyfrgellyddiaeth...now that is beautiful.

The Breton version is a little earthier levraouegour for librarian, levrdi for the building and levraoueg for the contents. Unfortunately levr... shows up the probably Latin roots with its similarity to livre and with a little consonant shift to libr...

>28 TheCompleatLibrarian:: That IS beautiful! I think I just broke my tongue trying to pronounce it though... Is the word for librarian shorter? Might be something to put on a t-shirt :-)

Oh, now, that's the whole fun with Welsh is the length. On a t-shirt it should start in front, go under the armpit, and then across the back.

Any chance of a pronunciation guide from TheCompleatLibrarian for those of us who don't have our Welsh For Dummies on hand?

29 I suspect Latin roots for the welsh version as well GreyHead. Welsh, Cornish and Breton all arise from Brythonic which is to say Romano-Celtic. most anything that came to Britain with the Romans has a Latin root in Welsh. remember to that in welsh a single f is pronounced like the English v.