Finn Discussion: First Fifty Pages

This is just a placeholder in case anyone wants to get started on the discussion of Finn before the "official" start of Monday, July 7.

Edit: I just realized that I should post a spoiler warning up here in case someone uninitiated jumps into this thread. The posts below contain spoilers for the first six chapters of Finn.

Hello everyone, welcome to our very first book discussion. You'll find some cheese I snuck out of the Green Dragon over there...

I have to admit the weekend caught me off guard and I have just a bit to finish up before I really get started discussing.

However, since I made my abritary page determinations before ever looking at the book, I've realized that page fifty is a little ways into Chapter Six . And since the book has 24 chapters in all, if we read six a week, we'll be done in a month which seems reasonable.

Thus this thread will now be devoted to Chapters 1-6.

Hopefully that's okay by everyone. Anyway, if you need some more time to squeeze in those extra twenty pages, that's cool. We'll be here all week. (And really beyond that.)

Now, I'm off to finish the last few chapters for this week and I'll be back later today, ready to discuss.

Well, I only read to the end of chapter 5 so far, but I'll go ahead and comment on those. I'll bring some crackers for the cheese when I come back again after chapter 6, and maybe a bottle of wine.

My first impression of Finn is that he is not very likable and more than a little creepy. (In chapter 1, was he really feeding Bliss what I think he was?). I was expecting him to be a sad, tragic figure, but the more I read the less sympathy I have for him. I'm wondering what role his father the judge, or maybe his mother or brother, had in making him turn out so badly. Surely something tramatic happened along the way.

Not having read Twain's books, I'm curious if the scene where Finn waits for Huck in his room is also in the other book? If so, how do the two versions compare?

I'm still having trouble getting accustomed to jumping around in time - I don't always like when authors do this, so I hope Clinch makes it worthwhile.

Yes, I'm pretty sure he was feeding Bliss what I think he was. That definitely made my stomach turn. (Though I think that speaks to the power of Clinch's writing.)

So far, I'm mostly impressed by the writing. I think it's evocative and atmospheric. It is, however, one of those books I feel weird to say I'm enjoying. I am enjoying reading the book, but it does at the same time create this sense of discomfort.

I'm glad Finn didn't get Huck's money. I can't remember if that scene is in Huckleberry Finn. It's been a while since I've read it and I don't remember much before Huck and Jim set off on the raft. I actually think there's a possibility it's in The Adventures of Tom Sawyer which I haven't read. I am pretty certain that they find the money in Injun Joe's cave in that book, however.

Speaking of which, did the appearance of the "n-word" bother anyone? That's a common reason for the banning of Twain's Huckleberry Finn. I wasn't at all surprised to find it in the book and I think it was used appropriately. I was wondering though, since Mark Twain was writing in a different era, if anyone thought it was inappropriate in a modern book?

I always think people's reactions to violent, abusive, or racist characters in books is interesting. (And in this case Finn is all three.) Some people seem to think that to portray a racist character that an author has to share those feelings. I think there may be a half truth to that. Certainly, I think to do it well an author may have to explore some his own prejudices and what threatens him about people who are different to him. However, I hardly think that reflects on the author himself. In fact, I think if the average racist explored in that much detail what was driving his feelings, he'd probably end up being less of one.

That's enough for now.

Oh, the scene with Bliss in chapter one was revolting! Finn is really a loathsome character - I don't find him even a little sympathetic. I think Clinch might be heading down the "Oh, my Dad was so distant and mean that I turned into a drunken murderer" path, but I'm not sure he means for us to feel for Finn at all. For example, even in the scene (I forget the chapter) from Finn's childhood where he tries to get Will in trouble by getting the neighbor's undies dirty, and the Judge punishes him, he comes across as almost inhuman. The way Clinch tells the story, it doesn't seem (yet) like Finn was ever "good", even as a child.

I agree with twomoredays - I'm impressed by the writing. It's certainly an uncomfortable book, but I'm enjoying it. It's hard to imagine a style less like Mark Twain's. The "n-word" didn't bother me - it's appropriate for the time and the character - I was so afraid that Finn was going to murder or kidnap that professor. Actually, I'm a little afraid for every character Finn encounters.

The descriptions of the cold in Finn's shack manage to almost make ME cold, and as you all know its about 95 today!

What did you all think of the scene where Finn goes and asks his brother for money? That's the only scene where I felt even a hint of sympathy for Finn. Why is his brother doing all that for Finn? Because of brotherly love? Can his brother really be unaware of what Finn is like?

This is definitely one of those books that you can't say you enjoy reading, but to use an overworked word, it is compelling. Clinch's writing is the only thing keeping me going, but some wine might help.

Some early impressions...a dark and disturbing book with none of Twain's satirical humor. As I remember Huck, he not only had intelligence and wisdom, but, he also developed compassion--all three traits nonexistent in Pap Finn.

So far Finn is a despicable drunk with no redeeming qualities. Clinch is doing an excellent job of portraying the personifcation of evil. The campfire and skinning scenes made me gasp. Reading this book is a bit like messing around with a Ouiji board. I feel like I should pound a cross of nails in the heel of my shoe to ward off the devil before I continue.

As for the n-word, I am offended; however, I think its use is totally appropriate for the time and place. I don't hold that or the racist overtones against the author. Just the opposite. It seems to me that it shows great craftsmanship to arouse feelings of disgust and aversion in the reader. I may just have to take lots of fresh air breaks while reading the book.

Wow, chapter 6 was really long. Jfetting, I agree that the scene with the brother is a little confusing. It is the only time so far that Finn has not come across as totally predatory. I have no idea why the brother acted as he did. I'm beginning to worry that he is secretly as depraved as Finn.

Concerning the use of the n-word, I have a little trouble getting worked up about it. A little background: My granddad (born in 1900 in Springfield) grew up in a time and place where the races simply were not equal. During my childhood, in the 1960's, while the civil rights movement was in full swing, he continued to refer to blacks as "n-----s". He didn't say it maliciously, but he said it. No one else in the family - my grandmother or my parents - ever used this word or expressed racist sentiments, and I grew up believing that racism is wrong. I understood that this was not a word to be used in public (or at all) - no different than any other cuss word. But even though I was familiar with the n-word, it wasn't used in connection with racist comments - it was just his (impolite) word for black, or colored, or negro - and I don't automatically associate the word with anything inherently offensive. So... in this context I prefer seeing this word, as I think it is probably more historically accurate for the setting - the time and place - than another, more currently P-C, word would be. We have to be careful to guard against the tendency to use our current standards to judge behaviors in other cultures/times/places.

I think that Clinch has done a superb job so far of giving his characters believable words and attitudes which - while abhorrent to us - were acceptable in the society he is portraying. For example, as disgusting as Finn is, when he talks to the Marshall about claiming a free black man as a slave, the Marshall is not put off by the idea but merely points out how infeasible it is. But I don't think he is using his story to glorify the racist attitudes that were common then - that really would be offensive.