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1kswolff
I read a couple Henry James novellas in high school -- Turn of the Screw and Daisy Miller -- and I'm looking to dip back in to the works of the Master. Plus nothing personifies literary snobbishness than the works of Henry James. Am I right? (Probably tied with Nabokov and Waugh in that matter.)
Where to start? What novels to avoid? (At least as a beginner.) Any suggestions?
Where to start? What novels to avoid? (At least as a beginner.) Any suggestions?
2CliffBurns
TURN OF THE SCREW bored the shit out of me. Never approached H.J. since. His brother Bill is far more interesting to this old boy...
3kswolff
To be honest, I liked Daisy Miller better than Turn of the Screw, which I found confusing. I see James as an American Decadent, like a WASPy Huysmans. Then again, I'm a sucker for purple prose and Pretty White People with Problems(TM).
4CliffBurns
I confess, I'm a minimalist. The fewer words it takes to make a point or tell a story, the more I like it. Long, florid, descriptive passages (shudder)--it's exposition, whether you're a fantasy writer concocting the latest door stop or a "classic" novelist with a glowing literary reputation...
5Jargoneer
Ignore Cliff - he's completely wrong with regard to James. James is one of the most precise authors in English - the reason his later works are so long and complex is down to James precision. He arguably created both the psychological and symbolist novel in English.
Best to start with early James - something like Washington Square or Portrait of a Lady. If you want to jump into the deep end, go for The Golden Bowl.
The Turn of the Screw is a technical masterpiece - it is very difficult to create an effective ghost story that may not even be a ghost story without coming clean to the reader.
Best to start with early James - something like Washington Square or Portrait of a Lady. If you want to jump into the deep end, go for The Golden Bowl.
The Turn of the Screw is a technical masterpiece - it is very difficult to create an effective ghost story that may not even be a ghost story without coming clean to the reader.
6kswolff
I may have to give Turn of the Screw a second look. I also have a volume of "ghost stories" by HJ. While not a minimalist -- or any -ist for that matter -- I appreciate a well-crafted sentence in a well-written story. (How often do you get both of those? Especially these days.)
From the tvtropes website:
Henry James. The whole concept of direct, concise wording which defined the 20th century writer (and really took off with Earnest Hemingway) was a massive, prolonged reaction against James and every other famous author of the late 19th to early 20th century who wrote like him. Just choke down the following tender morsels, if you dare:
* "Her nature had, in her conceit, a certain garden-like quality, a suggestion of perfume and murmuring boughs, of shady bowers and lengthening vistas, which made her feel that introspection was, after all, an exercise in the open air, and that a visit to the recesses of one's spirit was harmless when one returned from it with a lapful of roses. But she was often reminded that there were other gardens in the world than those of her remarkable soul, and that there were moreover a great many places which were not gardens at all- only dusky pestiferous tracts, planted thick with ugliness and misery." (The Portrait of a Lady)
o Translation: She liked to daydream, and considered it harmless because she had a nice imagination. But other people reminded her that not everyone's imaginations were nice at all.
***
Then again, I don't mind that kind of stuff, provided it's going somewhere. Most High Fantasy is just tinpot Chaucerisms and faux archaisms that sound like Dollar Store Ezra Pound. And science fiction, where it takes 3 pages to explain some techno-geekery unrelated to the plot, cuz gadgets are neato.
Henry James writes stories that are like Byzantine comedies of manners. Camille Paglia actually wrote some fascinating interpretations of HJ's novels in Sexual Personae. Mannered, glacial, purple prose at Jump the Shark levels ... yes, yes, and yes. The same can be said of Proust and, to a lesser extent, Waugh. I wouldn't read HJ all the time, but every so often it's nice to let the prose equivalent of VSOP cognac slather around in your brain for a while.
That being said, it's hard to pull off what HJ does. The same goes for Tolkien and Beckett. Imitation is hardly the real thing. There's also a contrarian, transgressive quality of reading about over-privileged repressed WASPs backstabbing and social climbing, especially in these times of Economic Apocalypse. It's like Melrose Place, but with longer sentences and better fashion sense.
From the tvtropes website:
Henry James. The whole concept of direct, concise wording which defined the 20th century writer (and really took off with Earnest Hemingway) was a massive, prolonged reaction against James and every other famous author of the late 19th to early 20th century who wrote like him. Just choke down the following tender morsels, if you dare:
* "Her nature had, in her conceit, a certain garden-like quality, a suggestion of perfume and murmuring boughs, of shady bowers and lengthening vistas, which made her feel that introspection was, after all, an exercise in the open air, and that a visit to the recesses of one's spirit was harmless when one returned from it with a lapful of roses. But she was often reminded that there were other gardens in the world than those of her remarkable soul, and that there were moreover a great many places which were not gardens at all- only dusky pestiferous tracts, planted thick with ugliness and misery." (The Portrait of a Lady)
o Translation: She liked to daydream, and considered it harmless because she had a nice imagination. But other people reminded her that not everyone's imaginations were nice at all.
***
Then again, I don't mind that kind of stuff, provided it's going somewhere. Most High Fantasy is just tinpot Chaucerisms and faux archaisms that sound like Dollar Store Ezra Pound. And science fiction, where it takes 3 pages to explain some techno-geekery unrelated to the plot, cuz gadgets are neato.
Henry James writes stories that are like Byzantine comedies of manners. Camille Paglia actually wrote some fascinating interpretations of HJ's novels in Sexual Personae. Mannered, glacial, purple prose at Jump the Shark levels ... yes, yes, and yes. The same can be said of Proust and, to a lesser extent, Waugh. I wouldn't read HJ all the time, but every so often it's nice to let the prose equivalent of VSOP cognac slather around in your brain for a while.
That being said, it's hard to pull off what HJ does. The same goes for Tolkien and Beckett. Imitation is hardly the real thing. There's also a contrarian, transgressive quality of reading about over-privileged repressed WASPs backstabbing and social climbing, especially in these times of Economic Apocalypse. It's like Melrose Place, but with longer sentences and better fashion sense.
7anna_in_pdx
I'm reading Pierre Loti's Iceland Fisherman right now, and it has that James quality to it when describing characters. I kind of like that style, though.
8kswolff
Have you read The Line of Beauty by Alan Hollinghurst? There's a bit of James in that, so I've heard. I haven't read it myself. I read The Swimming Pool Library and enjoyed it immensely. First time I encountered the name Ronald Firbank.
9CliffBurns
Yes, ignore Cliff--I really have no affinity for this type of writing (James-ian) and admit my shortcomings with nary a twitch of embarrassment.
Just not wired up for it. Dropped a lot as an infant or something...
Just not wired up for it. Dropped a lot as an infant or something...
11CurrerBell
Personally, I think The Beast in the Jungle is the best short story ever written. (Well, "short" by Jamesian standards anyway.) I'm not going to discuss it further to avoid SPOILER, because it's got a twist to it.
One that I haven't read in ages and really want to do a re-read of is The Princess Casamassima, which is a "political" novel about revolutionaries, a quite unusual subject for James.
And I'm embarrassed to admit that I've never read What Maisie Knew. I've really got to get to that one some time.
(Edited to correct the spelling of "Casamassima" which I always louse up!)
One that I haven't read in ages and really want to do a re-read of is The Princess Casamassima, which is a "political" novel about revolutionaries, a quite unusual subject for James.
And I'm embarrassed to admit that I've never read What Maisie Knew. I've really got to get to that one some time.
(Edited to correct the spelling of "Casamassima" which I always louse up!)
12kswolff
In Against the Day, the dog belonging to the Chums of Chance is reading Princess Casamassima.
13Jargoneer
>6 kswolff: - what is funny about James is the fact that his language is so precise but byzantine at the same time.
His criticism is worth reading - he is excellent on other writers.
Was a lousy playwright though.
His criticism is worth reading - he is excellent on other writers.
Was a lousy playwright though.
14QuentinTom
#6 God what fabulous writing that is! Prose equivalent of VSOP cognac is damn right!
Here are some early James novels for starters:
The Aspern Papers
The Pupil
THe Beast in the Jungle
THe Jolly Corner
The American
The Ambassadors
Stay off late James until you 'get' him, otherwise you will never get him, if you see what I mean....
Here are some early James novels for starters:
The Aspern Papers
The Pupil
THe Beast in the Jungle
THe Jolly Corner
The American
The Ambassadors
Stay off late James until you 'get' him, otherwise you will never get him, if you see what I mean....
