Literature and extremist politics

Partially inspired by reading Nazi Literature in the Americas, I'm interested in how we engage writers who espouse political extremism. Talented writers like Ferdinand Celine, Ezra Pound, and others, espoused extreme right wing ideologies. How do these extremist views impact their writing? Is quality writing something inherent in liberal democracies, or do extremist regimes have something to contribute to the Western Canon?

Also, on a personal note, what is the "darkest" book you own? (A book you consider evil, dangerous, or simply hateful.) And what is the "darkest" book you've read?

No Ayn Rand or Rush Limbaugh please, let's discuss writers with actual talent.

I don't have it anymore (in Egypt), but probably the book that has had a most troublesome impact on Western history that I have ever read is Machiavelli's The Prince.

If we are limited to fiction, I've read lots of books that were based on ideologies (or lack thereof) I didn't agree with, but I didn't consider them dangrous - just troubling to me, because I didn't like the worldview. Nihilistic novels such as Less than Zero come to mind.

You should read Cultural Amnesia, Karl. He spends a lot of time discussing these issues.

Anna, I looked over Cultural Amnesia when I picked it up at the library. I also read many of the writer profiles on Slate.com before the book was released. My snarky summary is: "Clive James sure doesn't like communism." But the lesser-known artist profiles, especially the Austrians, are fascinating.

I wouldn't count The Prince or The Communist Manifesto, mainly as an age thing. I want to focus on primarily 20th century writers. But their impact is undeniable.

As far as dark, evil books, I have Might is Right, Mein Kampf, and The Turner Diaries. "The Turner Diaries" is like a psychotic mirror of Handmaid's Tale. There is the creation of a racist Protestant utopia and the terrorists doing it are "the good guys." No irony, no satirical commentary, just sincere malice and hatred. Truly disturbing. Needless to say, I haven't read the whole book, but skimmed certain passages. Might be worth reading alongside a treatise on minimal government, since the "good guys" blow up the FBI Building in DC.

I'm at the beginning of The Pisan Cantos by Pound. I'm trying to figure out for myself whether or not Pound was repentant about his pro-Fascist activities. The Companion to the Cantos is very helpful. Through some research, I found that one of Pound's "Fascist Cantos" (left untranslated in the collection) tells a story about an Italian peasant girl leading a group of Canadian soldiers into a mine field. Ick. Just ick.

Ew, I would never own, buy or read either Mein Kampf or The Turner Diaries. I just don't like to wallow in ugliness. It's bad enough reading blogs that mock people such as Ann Coulter (I can't actually read her at first hand). I keep up on white supremacist news here in the US by reading Orcinus and getting reports from the Southern Poverty Law Center.

I kind of agree with Anna. Not being of a particularly historical bent, I am content to read about those types of books second or even third hand. Were I actually researching this sort of thing, that would be different.

I own the books for a few reasons.

*First, I'm of a historical bent, so there's that ...

*Second, I see them as valuable primary documents. It's easy to get pre-digested interpretation from secondary sources: the History Channel, history books, etc. It's another thing to read the source material. "Yes, Virginia, there are bad, bad people out there. Here's what they have to say." It's also gratifying to see these extremists undone by their very own words. If you want to win an argument with an extremist lunatic, just keep him talking.

*Third, I'm just interested in all manner of extremism and darkness of the human soul.

*Fourth, it's important that this stuff is preserved. Not because it is good, but precisely the opposite reason. After WW 2, the US govt wanted to burn the vast mountains of paperwork produced by the Nazi bureaucracy. Thankfully that never happened, since William Shirer got to go through it and eventually write Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

Owning these books is a matter of taste, but everyone should read these books sometime. It is a primal and horrifying experience, but necessary for the preservation of liberal democracy and global humanism (not just Western).

Have you read Susan Sontag's essay "Fascinating Fascism"?

# 6 - I completely agree with you. I'm also of a historical bent, although my interest only goes back so far as it were.

Mein Kampf and the Turner Diaries are both books I would like, and intend, to read someday. My partner and I have 6 kids between us, 5 of whom are mixed race. She and I are both 6ft tall blondes with blue and green eyes respectively. So our household is just an abomination to the sort of mindset that would write these books.

I can appreciate that the hateful message of these books is more than many people can take (a book that was so very popular in it's time and place... boggles the mind) but I firmly believe that it is the responsibility of everyone to know and understand the thought process and motivations behind it. If you don't, how can you hope to recognize it's genesis in the future? To know your enemy you must understand him, no? Of course, I don't imagine that makes the reading any easier. It was downright hard for me to read The Handmaid's Tale and that was a work of fiction, albeit horrifying, and I felt ill for days afterward.

So, now I must admit that I do not own them yet. I have a true antipathy about buying them. Normally I don't care what people think, but in this instance, I find that I truly worry what people will think of me for owning or buying them. And the library is out as I don't think I could face my librarian. Well, that and the fear of ending up on some all encompassing government "possibly a nutjob, keep the weapons trained in her general direction" list.

I think about gov't surveillance when I buy or ponder buying books that deal with anarchism or any "edgy" subject.

We live in strange times and I don't wanna have my ass "renditioned" to Syria or some place like that poor bastard Mayer Arar. "Step this way, Mr. Burns..."

Uh oh....

Not sure what's more frightening, the government tagging my book buying or the government's definition of "edgy."

As far as giving bad people money, if you can find them in a bookstore, you're OK. I have the Ralph Mannheim translation of Mein Kampf and The Turner Diaries were published by a free speech advocate. (It's not the "original edition" of the book.) In the spirit of fairness and balance, I also own Extreme Islam, an anthology of anti-American propaganda from religious extremists of the bearded variety. (Christian Identity terrorists are usually clean-shaven anti-Semites.)

Cliff, if you pay for them in cash you will not only be hard to trace but also cement your anarchist status.

Literary anarchist, political socialist...and a gun nut. That's not a great combination, is it? And if any of those Customs guards read my blog, they'll be naming a wing at fucking Gitmo after me...

But the prison on Gitmo is being closed down ... supposedly.

They'll just move the prisoners to the far side of the Moon and let the Nazis there keep guard on them. The lizardmen will handle the torture.

That is ... if you believed we landed on the Moon in the first place.

(singing) "We're whalers on the Moon! Whalers on the Moon!"

Of course we went there. Where do you think bird flu came from, eh?

"To the Moon, Alice!" Ralph Kramden was the first Moon explorer back in the 1950s.

Am I the only one who saw that Futurama episode?