Cicero - where should I start?

Hello,

I would like advice on where I should start in regards to reading Cicero - e.g. Selected Letters?

Much appreciated.

Ruth (Indigo-silk)

Hi Ruth,

I'm not sure it matters so much where you start. My suggestion would be to read a good history of the period in Rome or a (well-written) biography of Cicero alongside the Cicero and read the appropriate Cicero letters in context. Although Cicero was a great orator in Latin, a lot of the letters are more interesting if you have details about the content right there. I think finding a good translator that can make the language come alive is going to be just as important as where you start. (I read Cicero in Latin; I don't have a real view on who did a good translation.)

I also recommend that if you want some fun with your Cicero, you consider watching the HBO Rome series, where he is the recipient of a somewhat unflattering (at times) but very interesting portrayal.

Enjoy!

Sarah

I agree with SarahAbroad. I'd like to recommend Pro Milone to you. It's the speech of Cicero. Already in antiquity, by Quintilian it was regarded that way.

The man was a quote machine. One of my all-time faves and words that I absolutely live by:

"Genuine relationships cannot exist where one of the parties is unwilling to hear the truth and the other is equally indisposed to speak it."

Zang!

Hi Sarah,

Thanks for the information. I shall definitely being looking at the translator style and biography, possibly having a look at some Penguin Books Editions. I obviously must try to learn Latin at some time in the future...

By the way, I did watch the Rome series on television - great fun.

Cheers

Ruth

Thank-you Leuntje,

I shall lookout for it.

Cheers

Ruth

Hi Cliff,

I have a couple of fridge magnets of his sayings (mostly to do with books) and was recently ashamed that I didn't know more about him when quizzed. He has been on my list of people to read / find out about for a while...it is getting to be a large list!

Cheers

Ruth

How about this bit, on the death of Cicero, from Wikipedia:

"Once discovered, Cicero's last words were said to have been, "There is nothing proper about what you are doing, soldier, but do try to kill me properly." He bowed to his captors, leaning his head out of the litter in a gladiatorial gesture to ease the task. By baring his neck and throat to the soldiers, he was indicating that he wouldn't resist. According to Plutarch, Herennius first slew him, then cut off his head. On Antony's instructions his hands, which had penned the Philippics against Antony, were cut off as well; these were nailed and displayed along with his head on the Rostra in the Forum Romanum according to the tradition of Marius and Sulla, both of whom had displayed the heads of their enemies in the Forum. Cicero was the only victim of the proscriptions to be displayed in that manner. According to Cassius Dio (in a story often mistakenly attributed to Plutarch), Antony's wife Fulvia took Cicero's head, pulled out his tongue, and jabbed it repeatedly with her hairpin in final revenge against Cicero's power of speech."

Yeeesh Cliff, weren't you the one trying to get folks to STOP making painful posts today?

9: Give that man some cortisone injections to make him stop talking about Cicero-torture...

Man, first Gene dissed me the other day, now I'm being hailed as a hypocrite. What's that old saying? I feel like a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest...

At least you're being hailed. Ave!

Veni, vidi...and then I got stomped by my fellow Snobs.

Boo and hoo...

Alea Jacta Est!

>11 CliffBurns: - If you have one leg and must kick ass, can you not first leap and then swing your leg at the ass?

Also, check out the poetry of Ovid and Catullus

In the midst of the first season of Rome, I decided I needed some more background and turned to Tom Holland's Rubicon. I'm finding it delightful: narrative history at its rip-roaring best.

Conn Iggulden's series on Caesar--

* The Gates of Rome (2003)
* The Death of Kings (2004)
* The Field of Swords (2004)
* The Gods of War (2006)

is really fine, especially the first two volumes. He's one my favorite historical fiction dudes.

>16 kswolff: The Aeneid by Virgil is interesting reading too--it's Virgil's attempt (commissioned by Augustus) to create a historical-mythological grounding of Rome in the fall of Troy and the very oldest classical mythology. (It even contains the creation of an ancient historical reason for the Punic Wars!) It's no Odyssey, but it's quite interesting, particularly against the political and historical background. If I'm not mistaken, someone did a well received translation of it quite recently (maybe Fitzgerald), but I cannot remember.

>17 dcozy: Rubicon is fantastic--I heard parts of it read on the BBC when it first came out and got sucked in (was late for work) and had to have it. It's not related to Cicero, but I also recommend Tom Holland's follow up on the Persian wars, Persian Fire. I was struggling a bit more with his new book Millennium: The End of the World and the Forging of Christendom about the tenth/eleventh centuries in Europe and the relation between church and state (read monarchs), but think I'll turn back to it now that I'm not so busy with some other things and see if I enjoy it more.

>18 CliffBurns: Cliff, thanks for bringing these to light. Following all this classical discussion, I'm in the mood for something Roman, and, given that it is summer, fiction seems the way to go with it.

I LOVE both THE ODYSSEY and ILIAD (particularly the Robert Fagles translations) but AENEID I found stupefyingly dull. Had to really struggle to get through it. Indeed, it's no ODYSSEY and Virgil was no Homer. Not even in the same ballpark.

Do try Conn Iggulden's writing--he's brilliant at bringing history to life and his Caesar series is almost impossible to put down.

Ursula Le Guin's Lavinia is set in the time/place of the Aeneid but told from the perspective of Lavinia, who is not given a voice in the original. Virgil actually appears in Le Guin's tale, in a way.

17 and 19: Another vote for Rubicon. It was really interesting and it read like fiction.

Thanks everybody, I am really enjoying all the banter, especially Cliff and his arse kicking competition.

I went to See Julius Caesar last night (the play, I wasn't in a time machine) and was surprised to see that Cicero is actually a minor character. I have seen the play before although quite a while ago and had completely forgotten that he featured.

Cliff's recommendation of Conn Iggulden's books sent me over to this neat little website I found called amazon.com. Some of the punters there are not quite as enthusiastic as Cliff about Iggulden. See, for example, this review:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RNITBMTAK38GH/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

where Colin P. Lindsey writes, among other things:

"Imagine reading a fictional book about American history that tells a story about George Washington and Thomas Jefferson growing up as best friends together, as children in impoverished circumstances in New York city, who are befriended by a wandering Navajo indian with magical powers. Now imagine that this is being read by lots of children and immigrants without a grounding in basic American history. Sure, the story may be entertaining, but it is so far divorced from any actual history that it would frighten you that people might actually place some faith in this version of history. That's exactly what you have with this book. It is so historically inaccurate it makes me shudder. The story is fair-to-middlin' but I can't forgive the historical license being taken and I feel the book actually does a disservice to many readers. If a great many people are reading this, and forming ideas about Roman society and history based upon this book, then they are being grossly misinformed."

Amazon reviewers are, of course, always reliable.

AND when you want a perfectly respectable break from all this classicism, try Steven Saylor's *Roma sub Rosa* detective series. Saylor does his homework, and Cicero is a recurring character who gives the protagonist, Gordianus the Finder, cases. You get the added benefit of meaty portions of Cicero's speeches. The first, Roman Blood, deals with the case of Sextus Roscius, an accused parricide, whom Cicero defended. (I'm sure that all you Snobs know that the punishment of a convicted parricide was to be beaten bloody and then tied into a sack with a dog, a rooster, a snake - and Saylor adds a monkey that I didn't remember, which sack was then thrown into the Tiber.)

(edited to correct my error and add Saylor's version)