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1dwntotheundrgrnd
I have just started reading moon called and I really like it so far. I was wondering if anyone else has read this book and any other of this series or the alpha and omega series.
Also, if anyone else has read this book, is mercy's childhood discussed, cause so far I am a little confused. She has a foster mother, and a real mother? And step dad, and she was raised by wolves? Don't actually write it out, cause I dont want it to be spoiled, but just tell me if its explained.
Also, if anyone else has read this book, is mercy's childhood discussed, cause so far I am a little confused. She has a foster mother, and a real mother? And step dad, and she was raised by wolves? Don't actually write it out, cause I dont want it to be spoiled, but just tell me if its explained.
2Helcura
I'm a fan of all of them. It's a wonderfully complex world with really interesting characters. There aren't a lot of details about Mercy's childhood so far. Perhaps Patricia Briggs plans to go into it in a future book.
3madamlibbytellsall
You do learn a little more about Mercy's childhood in the other books, but it's a painful subject for her. Mercy is an outsider even with the pack that raised her. Looking for a place to fit in is a big part of what motivates her I think.
4kmaziarz
Yes, the overall arc of her childhood is explained...and really, there isn't much to spoil. It's fairly straightforward backstory as these things go. :-)
5extrajoker
I've read and enjoyed the Mercy novels. It's a fun series. (Incidentally, you'll probably find more discussion in the "Urban Fantasy" group...assuming you haven't cross-posted there already.)
6ElenaGwynne
I plowed through this series a couple of months ago (bought the first book, then the next day ended up buying the next two and the first Alpha and Omega book in one purchase). I just couldn't put them down.
7DWtiger32704
I am a major Patricia Briggs fan. I can't wait till August when her next book comes out.
If you really like her you'd probably also enjoy Karen Chance and Ilona Andrews They all have similar writing styles and themes with strong female lead characters. Also they will even recommend each other.
If you really like her you'd probably also enjoy Karen Chance and Ilona Andrews They all have similar writing styles and themes with strong female lead characters. Also they will even recommend each other.
8Jenson_AKA_DL
I'm also waiting on the next Mercy story.
I read Cry Wolf and the prequel in On the Prowl but just didn't like them as much as the Mercy books for some reason. I'll probably read the next one when it comes out just to see if I like it any better.
I read Cry Wolf and the prequel in On the Prowl but just didn't like them as much as the Mercy books for some reason. I'll probably read the next one when it comes out just to see if I like it any better.
9Morphidae
I'm going to suggest The Negotiator trilogy by C.E. Murphy. The first one is Heart of Stone. The male romantic lead is a gargoyle which I thought was pretty cool. She also has a similar style with strong female leads. I'll have to check out Chance and Andrews.
Plus Murphy is an LT author!
Plus Murphy is an LT author!
10Tigercrane
>8 Jenson_AKA_DL: I read Cry Wolf without knowing there was a prequel, and it was very confusing. I recommend tracking down the prequel first.
11justjukka
Sorry to dig up this thread, but I don't like starting new threads when there are already threads that discuss the same novels.
I love the Alpha Omega novels, but one flaw I feel that it has is the misplaced sexism. I mean, it makes sense that primarily men would be pack leaders, because they come from an older time in which men were leaders, period. However, Briggs goes on to make it sound as though female submission is simply a law of nature, despite female wolves being alphas in real life. I was wondering how other fans felt about this.
Also, do you wait for the paperback edition before purchasing, or do you just HAVE to buy it as soon as it comes out? I was impatient with the previous Mercy Thompson novel, but I've been waiting for the newest to come out in paperback.
I love the Alpha Omega novels, but one flaw I feel that it has is the misplaced sexism. I mean, it makes sense that primarily men would be pack leaders, because they come from an older time in which men were leaders, period. However, Briggs goes on to make it sound as though female submission is simply a law of nature, despite female wolves being alphas in real life. I was wondering how other fans felt about this.
Also, do you wait for the paperback edition before purchasing, or do you just HAVE to buy it as soon as it comes out? I was impatient with the previous Mercy Thompson novel, but I've been waiting for the newest to come out in paperback.
12cosmicdolphin
11: Rozax
It's fiction, the author can make a choice about how their fantasy world works. If Briggs has chosen submission for her female characters, she wouldn't be the first and she won't be the last.
The reader can make a choice about whether the world created by the author is something they can be happy with. They can vote with their wallet by not purchasing any further books.
Maybe it's something Briggs will address at a later date. Supernatural girl makes good and turns said fictional societal norms on their head.
Maybe it's a ploy to increase sales to a different segment of the market.
Perhaps she's trying to grab some of the John Norman market.
You could always direct the question to Briggs if you get to a convention she's attending. Authors are usually pretty forthcoming on panels about what makes their work tick. She's also on a signing tour in March.
If you feel strongly about the high quality of an author, always buy in hardcover. (Although most of the Briggs books have tended to be paperback originals with no hardcover edition).
I will also buy the Mass Market paperback as well, if I enjoy the author enough.
It's fiction, the author can make a choice about how their fantasy world works. If Briggs has chosen submission for her female characters, she wouldn't be the first and she won't be the last.
The reader can make a choice about whether the world created by the author is something they can be happy with. They can vote with their wallet by not purchasing any further books.
Maybe it's something Briggs will address at a later date. Supernatural girl makes good and turns said fictional societal norms on their head.
Maybe it's a ploy to increase sales to a different segment of the market.
Perhaps she's trying to grab some of the John Norman market.
You could always direct the question to Briggs if you get to a convention she's attending. Authors are usually pretty forthcoming on panels about what makes their work tick. She's also on a signing tour in March.
If you feel strongly about the high quality of an author, always buy in hardcover. (Although most of the Briggs books have tended to be paperback originals with no hardcover edition).
I will also buy the Mass Market paperback as well, if I enjoy the author enough.
13johnnyapollo
I read the first book and liked it quite a bit - only thing I've read from her so far.
14justjukka
12: cosmicdolphin
I'm well aware that it's fiction and that fiction writers make their own rules. I understand that she is far from the first, and the way this world is spinning, I too am rather certain that she won't be the last to use female submission in their novels. What I don't understand is her decision to use this trope. She hasn't justified it; she's simply given the impression that this is how it is, even if it sucks.
Even fiction requires a level of rationality, and the lack of justification cuts into the credibility for me. If this is a law of nature, then it would cut further into that credibility if supernatural girl turns societal norms on their head, depending upon the means. It can't be a simple matter of, "I'm not going to take this crap, and neither should you!" That would break the consistency of her supernatural law of female submission.
It's true that this might change in the future, but that's true about any aspect of the series. Using that qualifier would make for a short book discussion. There are a lot of things that I like about the series, a major part being that the characters themselves are believable, so this isn't a deal-breaker for me. If you've read Kitty and the Midnight Hour, the very first book had too many inconsistencies for me to believe in the characters.
Briggs has yet to visit my neck of the woods, but I'll definitely round up my books for a signing if she visits my neighborhood. Based on her website, she seems like a very interesting person.
I'm well aware that it's fiction and that fiction writers make their own rules. I understand that she is far from the first, and the way this world is spinning, I too am rather certain that she won't be the last to use female submission in their novels. What I don't understand is her decision to use this trope. She hasn't justified it; she's simply given the impression that this is how it is, even if it sucks.
Even fiction requires a level of rationality, and the lack of justification cuts into the credibility for me. If this is a law of nature, then it would cut further into that credibility if supernatural girl turns societal norms on their head, depending upon the means. It can't be a simple matter of, "I'm not going to take this crap, and neither should you!" That would break the consistency of her supernatural law of female submission.
It's true that this might change in the future, but that's true about any aspect of the series. Using that qualifier would make for a short book discussion. There are a lot of things that I like about the series, a major part being that the characters themselves are believable, so this isn't a deal-breaker for me. If you've read Kitty and the Midnight Hour, the very first book had too many inconsistencies for me to believe in the characters.
Briggs has yet to visit my neck of the woods, but I'll definitely round up my books for a signing if she visits my neighborhood. Based on her website, she seems like a very interesting person.
15cosmicdolphin
14: Rozax
I don't believe she has to justify it. I understand that might cut the credibility for you personally. Maybe she doesn't have the depth/maturity as a writer yet to produce what you are looking for.
I will point out that Human behavior can often be far from rational in real life, so does it need to be rational all the time in a fiction context.
I'm sure there are many readers who are simply not exploring it that deeply, and are just enjoying the story.
As far as I can tell by talking to various customers I sold Briggs books to when I worked in a large brick and mortar bookstore, her work is seen as 'candy' reading, and little more.
I don't believe she has to justify it. I understand that might cut the credibility for you personally. Maybe she doesn't have the depth/maturity as a writer yet to produce what you are looking for.
I will point out that Human behavior can often be far from rational in real life, so does it need to be rational all the time in a fiction context.
I'm sure there are many readers who are simply not exploring it that deeply, and are just enjoying the story.
As far as I can tell by talking to various customers I sold Briggs books to when I worked in a large brick and mortar bookstore, her work is seen as 'candy' reading, and little more.
16epochwolf
15: cosmicdolphin
> I will point out that Human behavior can often be far from rational in real life, so does it need to be rational all the time in a fiction context.
This issue Rozax has with the series is not the behavior of the characters. It's the behavior of the world. I've read both series in this universe and they both talk about the magic of the pack enforcing what amounts to cultural mores. (Wolves in the real world have female lead packs all the time)
In most fantasy, magic is a part of the world and is not bound to the rules of a culture or nation. In both series, the magic of the pack binds a female to one dominant position below their mate with no explanation. The only thing that remotely makes sense is that the Alphas have the ability to modify the pack magic, a trait that is never granted to them in the books.
Characters don't have to be rational. Worlds do. Our world is pretty rational and predictable. There are exceptions to this but in fiction you really aren't allowed to make those kind of exceptions without at least a token attempt to explain it away as unknown or by some magic.
The pack magic in Patricia Briggs' world is ill-defined but it's not treated or explained as ill-defined in the books. In fact it has defined set of rules and abilities but those rules don't explain the abilities. It's like building a sink and forgetting the drain. Something is missing. This creates a rather jarring inconsistency that has to be dealt with every time you read the books.
> I will point out that Human behavior can often be far from rational in real life, so does it need to be rational all the time in a fiction context.
This issue Rozax has with the series is not the behavior of the characters. It's the behavior of the world. I've read both series in this universe and they both talk about the magic of the pack enforcing what amounts to cultural mores. (Wolves in the real world have female lead packs all the time)
In most fantasy, magic is a part of the world and is not bound to the rules of a culture or nation. In both series, the magic of the pack binds a female to one dominant position below their mate with no explanation. The only thing that remotely makes sense is that the Alphas have the ability to modify the pack magic, a trait that is never granted to them in the books.
Characters don't have to be rational. Worlds do. Our world is pretty rational and predictable. There are exceptions to this but in fiction you really aren't allowed to make those kind of exceptions without at least a token attempt to explain it away as unknown or by some magic.
The pack magic in Patricia Briggs' world is ill-defined but it's not treated or explained as ill-defined in the books. In fact it has defined set of rules and abilities but those rules don't explain the abilities. It's like building a sink and forgetting the drain. Something is missing. This creates a rather jarring inconsistency that has to be dealt with every time you read the books.
17justjukka
15: cosmicdolphin
Everyone's entitled to their brain candy. Some of my friends read Twilight as theirs because it's simplistic, the quality of writing is poor, so they just fill in the gaping plot holes with their own ideas. I can see where they have fun with it, though it isn't my cup of tea.
Patricia Briggs is definitely more talented, so I automatically hold her to a higher standard. As epochwolf suggested, maybe the power that the Alpha has over pack magic is the determining factor in pack hierarchy, but it still hasn't been touched upon. Given Briggs' talent, I hope that she sorts this out in a later book. If it works out as epochwolf suggested, then, as you suggested, Mercy could very well influence the position of women in the pack.
Everyone's entitled to their brain candy. Some of my friends read Twilight as theirs because it's simplistic, the quality of writing is poor, so they just fill in the gaping plot holes with their own ideas. I can see where they have fun with it, though it isn't my cup of tea.
Patricia Briggs is definitely more talented, so I automatically hold her to a higher standard. As epochwolf suggested, maybe the power that the Alpha has over pack magic is the determining factor in pack hierarchy, but it still hasn't been touched upon. Given Briggs' talent, I hope that she sorts this out in a later book. If it works out as epochwolf suggested, then, as you suggested, Mercy could very well influence the position of women in the pack.
18cosmicdolphin
It might be case of literary laziness, which can affect authors from time to time. It's certainly not the most egregious example I've seen if that is the case.
If most of her readership are seeing it as 'candy' then they are probably not holding it to that higher standard. Most readers expectation is likely many rungs lower than yours.
I don't particularly see Briggs as being any more talented than most of the others tapping into that particular segment of the market.
That's nothing against Briggs, I wish her every success. I'm just not seeing anything interesting there that I want to explore.
It's unlikely that I'm part of her target audience.
If I want something deep, I'll read Tim Powers, or perhaps some Edward Whittemore.
Rozax, you should get yourself onto a discussion panel at one of the conventions like Wiscon. You would probably really enjoy it
If most of her readership are seeing it as 'candy' then they are probably not holding it to that higher standard. Most readers expectation is likely many rungs lower than yours.
I don't particularly see Briggs as being any more talented than most of the others tapping into that particular segment of the market.
That's nothing against Briggs, I wish her every success. I'm just not seeing anything interesting there that I want to explore.
It's unlikely that I'm part of her target audience.
If I want something deep, I'll read Tim Powers, or perhaps some Edward Whittemore.
Rozax, you should get yourself onto a discussion panel at one of the conventions like Wiscon. You would probably really enjoy it
19magelet87
i just read Moon Called. i enjoyed it so much that i drove the 60 miles to town that day and bought the second one! i am really interested in cultural anthropology, so i enjoyed reading about the pack politics. that is probably the most interesting part of the book to me, lol. i know that sounds wierd but its true.
