Group Read: John Adams

This is the thread for the group read of John Adams by David McCullough. Does anyone have a suggestion or preference for when to read this book? I don't really care, but I'd prefer to do it earlier in 2010 rather than later, because I'll have more motivation then. :)

April sounds good to me!

April works for me too, if it's good for the rest of the group read.

Heard from Megi53 and April sounds good to her. Passed on the link to this thread.

I'm not planning on the group read, I just thought I'd cheer you on a bit! I read this one last year and really enjoyed it - one of my 5 star books for the year.

I just ordered a copy of the book from Amazon!

Count me in. I have my book and April sounds good. I am looking forward very much to this particular G/R. Hoping to learn a lot.
belva

@7 :: Welcome aboard! I'm really looking forward to this book too...I can't wait to see the miniseries as well!

I'd like to read along as well. I've had the book on my shelf for way to long and I'm hoping this is what it takes for me to move it to the top of my TBR pile.

Are we still on for April? Right now I'm scrambling to finish the books I'd planned for March, so it's a bit hard for me to think ahead right now...so what do you all think?

I'm up for it! Anyone else?

@11 :: April is turning out to be pretty busy for me, but I could still swing it if it's the best month for everyone else. I need to get my hands on a copy of the book!

I am going to the library today and will look for this book. I have heard great things about it.
--BJ

I found the book at my library yesterday, so I'm finally ready to get started! :) I'm wondering how we should deal with the book -- should we divide it into sections and discuss a certain number of chapters each week? Or should we handle it some other way? Honestly, I'm open to anything!

Also, I already have a couple questions! :) First of all -- has anyone started the book yet? I haven't, because I'm still in the middle of Celia Garth by Gwen Bristow (which I'm really enjoying, by the way!). And secondly, have you seen the miniseries? Once again, I haven't; I wanted to read the book first! But I'm definitely interested in watching the miniseries as well. Would anyone be interested in doing a read-and-watch type of thing, where we could compare the book and film versions? Just a thought...anyway, I'm excited to get started!

I have the book but haven't started yet. Just finished a biography on Washington, so this will be nice for me to segue right into John Adams.

I haven't done one of these group reads before, so not sure how it is supposed to work. I'm open to whatever you suggest.

I haven't seen the miniseries either...I night not have time to do that...I'll be traveling a bit this month.

So, let me know when we're ready, set, go!

I haven't seen the miniseries either! I requested the book at my library and hope that it comes in this week. I have heard that it is a really great read. Discussing a certain number of chapters a week is fine with me. I am willing to try to find the miniseries if you want to read and watch. It all sounds great!
--BJ

So I've been thinking about how we might want to do this, and my suggestion is to break it down into sections and discuss one new part at a time. That way we'll all be reading it together, and no one will be posting spoilers.

Since the book is divided into 3 main parts already, here's my suggested schedule:

Part 1 (Ch. 1-3) -- start posting April 15
Part 2 (Ch. 4-7) -- start posting April 30
Part 3 (Ch. 8-12) -- start posting May 15

Would anyone be willing to stretch this group read into May? Personally it takes me a long time to read nonfiction; but if everyone else wants to fit the whole thing into April, that's also OK with me. And of course, I'm open to other scheduling ideas! I just wanted to throw something out there so we can get started! :)

I like the schedule you have. I also read nonfiction more slowly. I just got the book from the library, so I am ready!
--BJ

Thanks for suggesting the schedule Christina. That schedule works for me too - I also read non-fiction slower than fiction.

I have just started getting into it, and have enjoyed it so far and found some neat things that I've shared with my husband...and I'll include in posts starting next week!

-Lisa

So, what does everyone think of the book so far? I'm finding it very interesting, and surprisingly easy to read considering it's nonfiction! One thing that surprised me was how religious Adams apparently was. I remember being taught in school that all the American Founders were atheists or Deists, and none of them were devout Christians -- but it seems that Adams was!

I am running behind. Hope to catch up soon.
--BJ

@21 :: Hey, no worries! It's a busy time of the year...look forward to hearing your thoughts when you catch up! :)

Well, I am not totally caught up, but I am really enjoying the read. You are right, Christina, there are lots of references to religion in his life. Interesting that his dad was a Deacon. But he decided to check out all of the churches when in Philadelphia. I also like all the info on Abigail Adams. I noticed how he was collecting a library of great works. And he could read in both Latin and Greek. Reading about the Stamp Act applying even to playing cards, I was thinking about how often when buying a pack of plain cards, the box is shut with a sticker that looks kind of like a stamp. And wasn't it interesting that he represented the British charged with the Boston Massacre. Anyway, I read a bio of George Washington last year that was also excellent. But other than that I haven't read much of this history lately. My kids had a great teacher for American History in high school, and my older daughter got to go hear David McCullough speak when she was in that class. Pretty neat.

Did you find a copy of the HBO miniseries? It is advertised on the copy of the book that I got from the library.
--BJ

I'd almost forgotten that he represented the British soldiers at the Boston Massacre! That was one of my favorite parts, and it definitely increased my admiration for Adams. I'm a law student myself, so I'm very much enjoying reading about Adams' legal adventures.

I liked reading about Abigail Adams too, and I only wish there were more about her! It seems like they had an exceptionally great marriage.

I finally finished Part 1, and John Adams seemed to be more important than I realized. The part about inoculating for small pox was a big surprise to me. Reading about the war, it is easy to see that it could have gone the other way. Great read, so far!
--BJ

24> You might want to look for Abigail Adams by Woody Holton, which came out in November of 2009. Publishers Weekly gave the book a starred review. Holton's last book, Unruly Americans and the Origins of the Constitution, was also the recipient of a starred review from PW.

Another new book about an Adams is Mrs. Adams in Winter, which discusses JQA's wife's trip through Europe in the aftermath of the Napoleonic Wars.

(I'm reading this thread, but not doing the group read, so apologies for butting in.)

@26 :: You're not butting in at all, and thanks for the recommendations!

Thanks from me, too! I added them to my wishlist!
--BJ

Hi everybody,
Sorry for the delay! I'm stuck in London, a victim of Icelandic volcanic ash...
Have definitely enjoyed John Adams so far. What a guy - I'm very impressed.
Some things I have really liked so far - when he disliked being in school as a kid, and he stopped going for awhile and worked with his dad in the field, I liked how his dad said, "Well, John, are you satisfied with being a farmer?" and John says, "I like it very well, sir." And then his dad says, "Aya, (I can just hear a New Englander talk like that) but I don't like it so well; so you will go back to school today."
Way to go, Dad!
Then I was really impressed by the letter he wrote in 1755, when he was a schoolteacher earning the money to study to be a lawyer - the letter that predicted America would take over from the UK as the next superpower. WOW!
Another little comment - I saw how religious he was as well, and noticed no comment made one way or the other by the author about their first child being born not quite 9 months later. It made me wonder a bit - I guess my mind goes like that...oh well.
Their love for each other is beautiful.

I was also really impressed by him representing the British in the 'Boston Massacre'.
It has also been very interesting to read about his thoughts about the other politicians.
I'm well into Part II, and I agree, this is going pretty fast for me too, it being a non-fiction, historical read.
Just finished a biography of George Washington myself, so it has been very interesting to continue the story, as it were.
Happy reading!

@29 :: Haha, good catch about the not-quite-9-months thing! Maybe the child was premature? Eh, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. :)

29, 31> From Sexual Revolution in Early America by Richard Godbeer:

"Perhaps the most striking facet of sexual behavior during the 1700s was a steady rise in premarital pregnancy, which began at the close of the previous century. In New Haven County, Connecticut, 19 percent of women who married during the 1690s were pregnant, up from a mere 2 percent in the 1670s. By the revolutionary era, between 30 and 40 percent of brides in some New England towns were already expecting. Seventeenth-century couples who had become sexually intimate during betrothal had acted in accordance with English popular tradition, ignoring legal and ecclesiastical prescriptions. The increase in bridal pregnancy rates throughout New England during the eighteenth century was due in part to the resurgence of traditional sexual mores as Puritan values loosened their grip on the population."

>32 ReneeMarie: Wow, really interesting! Thanks for sharing!

I finished the second part yesterday, and I am still enjoying the book. One of my favorite parts was from the beginning where the ship to France was under attack, and John Adams came on deck with his musket ready for action! I was also amazed at how John Quincy got to go along and then off to Russia without parents. What an education he had! Finally, it was interesting to me that John Adams and Thomas Jefferson took their thoughts and wrote them down and then self-published so they could share them with the folks back home as they move toward the Constitution. And I have to say that I have developed a lot of respect for Abagail Adams, too.
--BJ

@34 :: I was so jealous of John Quincy! Even today, most people don't get an experience like that, and in his generation it was even more rare!

I really enjoyed seeing the Adamses abroad. I actually had no idea that Adams was ever in France, the Netherlands, or England! I always pictured him just hanging out in Boston. :) Considering how blunt and abrasive he apparently was, I'm kind of surprised that Congress sent him to be a diplomat! He didn't like playing the court games and he antagonized all the foreign ministers...I was surprised that he did as well as he apparently did, getting the treaty signed and obtaining loans and everything!

You are so right! People were always saying critical things about him (his vanity, his stubbornness), yet they constantly relied on him. And through all the bickering and hardship, he continued to do as they asked. I can't wait to see what the last part brings.
--BJ

By the way, I noticed that the Library of America is publishing John Adams writings and letters. I am looking forward to those two volumes!

And does your volume have the inserted pictures? In the pictures in this section, I saw one of the last portrait of Adams when he was almost 89!
--BJ

Yes, I do have the pictures in my book; I'm reading the movie tie-in version, which I think is the same one you're reading, right? Yeah, Adams at age 89...brilliant he may have been, but handsome he was not. :)

I think I have the same copy as you. For not handsome, he certainly sat for a lot of portraits!
--BJ

37> You may also want to check out The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The Complete Correspondence between Thomas Jefferson and Abigail and John Adams. Cappon bought an edition out in 2 vols. about 50 years ago, but my copy is a modern, one volume, unabridged reissued edition.

That looks like a pretty good source, ReneeMarie! One thing that has amazed me is just how many letters everyone wrote back then. I am wishlisting the book.

SPOILERS
I ended up finishing the book last night at about 3 because it was due at the library today. I also loved the last section of the book. This was a terrific read! I was amazed at the animosity between the press and the politicians even back then. Some things never change! I could not believe the surgery for poor Nabby. And the political infighting was quite interesting. I loved reading about the books they were reading. Now I really want to read a bio of Jefferson to see his side of things more fully. Overall, this was a great read. Thanks so much for suggesting it!
--BJ

41> One thing that has amazed me is just how many letters everyone wrote back then.

You may be interested, then, in a project called Mapping the Republic of Letters, funded at least in part by Stanford and the NEH. It looks geographically at the letters flying back and forth between Enlightenment figures.

And in a book by Wayne E. Fuller called The American Mail: Enlarger of the Common Life, which discusses the clamor of the American people for roads and postal services, even when the treasury couldn't afford them and the populations didn't warrant them.

That was an interesting website about the letters from Voltaire. Love that 20 volumes worth of letters! I added the book to my wishlist. I used to write a lot of letters. Now, not so much, only thank you notes. The curse of the text message -- 160 characters or less! :) Thanks for the info!
--BJ

@41 :: Wow, I can't believe you're already done -- congratulations! I still have to get through part 3. I'm definitely enjoying the book, but I'm in the midst of final exams right now, and all I want to read is fluffy YA lit and romance. :) I'll get it done though!

I only finished because I had to return it to the library. I was wishing that I had my own copy! Good luck with finals!!
--BJ

Hi everybody, catching up on this with you all. BJ - good for you in finishing already!!!

I got through Part II with a few days to spare, and like you all, definitely am enjoying it.

I also was enchanted by the voyage across the Atlantic, with 10-yr old Johnny. I thought it was amusing how much John Adams advised the captain, and also pretty cool that the captain took his advice and thought John Adams was impressive.

Also thought it was funny that he really liked France, even though he also thought it was so decadent.

It was interesting to me the dichotomy between Franklin and Adams, and how Franklin and Arthur Lee didn't get along at all.

Then later I was really surprised with the break between Frankin and Adams, and how it was handled.

>35 christina_reads: I had not gotten the impression that he antagonized all the foreign ministers. My take on it was that he didn't like how Franklin was letting the French run our business - i.e., allowing them to review and approve all diplomatic efforts - and he didn't support that (in my mind, rightfully so).

True, he wasn't liked in Great Britain, but they didn't like Americans at all. Funny how we are much closer to the UK now than we are to France, at least it seems so politically speaking.

I was also surprised with his time in the Netherlands - an amazingly well-traveled guy.

Interesting to me that this book is not just a biography of John Adams, but we learn quite a lot about other personages of the day, even when there is no interaction with Adams or his family, for example the section on Thomas Jefferson when Virginia was invaded. And there are quite a lot of quotes by John Quincy Adams.

I'm not quite sure I'll finish by May 15 (needed to slip in an ER review between sections II and III), but I am back into it and enjoying it!

Thanks for the thoughtful comments and insight!

@47 :: With my "antagonizing the foreign ministers" comment, I didn't mean to imply that Adams was just making trouble for the heck of it. He was clearly motivated by his idealism and principles, and I agree with you that his attitude toward France (not wanting them to control everything) was well justified. I just think he wasn't particularly well suited to be a diplomat because he was so blunt and unwilling to do all the courtly game-playing. Yet apparently his straightforward strategy worked, at least in some areas!

The more American history stuff I read, the less I like Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson. Franklin because of the way he treated his family and Jefferson because of his reluctance to get involved in the hard work of the Revolution and his political views. Adams is the one doing the hard work here. I admire him so much more now that I've read this book and a few others.

@51 :: I agree! Adams seems so underrated compared to a lot of the other Founding Fathers. I was just thinking today about how he's not even on our currency, although Washington and Jefferson both are!

I actually spent most of today reading and finishing this book. I look forward to discussing it with everyone!

>50 christina_reads: Good point Christina. And there certainly were plenty of comments here and there about how people thought he was arrogant. And he definitely was blunt; I guess I admire that...I am probably too blunt myself, but I guess I kinda like how straightforward he was. A common New England character trait I think!

Good job Christina and BJ on finishing - I'll ramp it up to continue the discussion with you!

>51 cmbohn: I agree, I did have a much higher opinion of Benjamin Franklin before. I still think he was a very smart guy. But the luster is off.

Also, Jefferson's spendthrift ways have not impressed me, and like you say, he didn't seem to work that hard during the revolution.

In addition to now wanting to read a bio of Jefferson, I also have some of Ben Franklin's writings around here that I would like to read. The part about how he would write down words of wisdom, but then didn't follow them seemed kind of funny to me. I was thinking that he wrote "Early to bed, and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise." And then read how in France, he got up at 10 or 12, ate and saw a couple of visitors and then took a nap. I thought that was so funny, because all my life I knew him from these sayings only. I never in a million years would have thought he was up all night at French parties and sleeping in every morning.
--BJ

@56 :: Did you ever read Franklin's autobiography? I had to read it for a class, and it's pretty funny to see how he has all these great ideals but doesn't actually live up to them! :)

Reading John Adams has definitely inspired me to read about other figures from the period as well. I'd love to read bios of Washington and Jefferson now, as well as Alexander Hamilton!

I cannot recall ever reading Franklin's autobiography, but I think that I have a copy here at home. I would also like to know more about Hamilton. Seems like he had quite a bit of influence. Plus, I would like to read other books by McCullough.
--BJ

The only other McCullough book I've read is 1776, but I thought it was quite good also!

Wow, I completely forgot to post anything about Part 3! Sorry, guys! So what did you all think of the book as a whole? I think Part 3 might have been the most interesting section of all. That Hamilton sure was a character. :) I'm definitely interested in reading a biography of him now! Was anyone else inspired to read a biography of another figure from the period because of this book?

I thought it was a terrific book, and it made me want to read a number of biographies of the other people mentioned in the book. I kept reading bits and pieces of it to my husband. What a great suggestion for a group read! Thanks so much!
--BJ

Hi there!

I am still not finished....grrrr.....work is just interfering right now. I am plodding along, and still enjoying it.

And Christina, as I started part 3, I thought, wow, he is making everyone mad as he started as VP - so I understood better your comments. But then he seemed to calm down again as he got used to the role, and was getting positive comments.

As I continue to read, it is so depressing to see some of the things that were going on back then. Stuff that Jefferson did, stuff that Hamilton did, ugh!

And BJ - I was doing the same thing with my husband...lol.

I'm definitely interested in a biography of Hamilton, and also Franklin. Jefferson will be next on my presidential biographies of course, so while I think I know quite a bit about him now, it will be interesting to read something from a slightly different perspective on him.

Well, I'll finish up and post a couple more comments. It has been fun to so this with you! I definitely got more out of it.

Lisa -- the bio of Jefferson should be interesting. I feel like this book didn't portray him in a very positive light, but a biography focusing on him will likely be more favorable to his point of view. It's always good to see both sides of the story! By the same token, I wonder if the Jefferson bio will portray Adams more negatively!

I wonder about how a Jefferson bio will portray Adams, also. The one I have is Jefferson and His Time: The Sage of Monticello by Dumas Malone. But I have heard lots of good things about American Sphinx by Ellis. I looked for it at Half Price Books this weekend in Austin, but there were no copies. Maybe the library has it.
--BJ

Yay! Finally finished John Adams. As I finished Part III, I would agree with John Adams himself in considering one of his greatest acheivements as President was to keep the US out of war with France. I was kinda disappointed at him leaving Washington before Jefferson's inaugural, but he certainly was a sensitive guy, and definitely hurt by all of Jefferson's and his cronies machinations.

It was very interesting to see the pen pals that Adams and Jefferson became later on. Funny too to see Adams try to draw Jefferson out on some of the issues that they had disagreed on in the day, and see that Jefferson did not take the bait.

I also enjoyed how proud John Adams was at his son attaining the heights that he did, culminating in the Presidency itself.

Finally, I had no idea that Adams and Jefferson died on the same day. WOW. An interesting bit of trivia how Adams financial straits were the complete opposites of Jefferson's in the end.

Well, very much enjoyed this book. Learned a ton. And very thankful that John and Abigail wrote so many letters so that we could later learn so much about them!