Group Read **Herodotus** General thread.
Talk 1010 Category Challenge
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1calm
As one of the people who is interested in a group read of Herodotus's Histories (and prompted by a question in the group reads thread) I thought it was time to start the Thread.
I don't know if other people have a better idea of how to structure this but I was thinking along the lines of this thread for general discussion - so to talk about things like:-
1 - which translation?
2 - what is in your edition as an introduction?
3 - any general questions.
Then for each book (chapter) its own thread which allows for specific questions; thoughts and opinions and debate. That way people can read at their own pace and if they are not interested in a particular section they can skip the debate.
My thinking is that this would be along the lines of a conversation.
I would also like to post a link to this discussion in other groups - so if you are a member of any group where people might want to join a discussion but not undertake this challenge you can still join in.
Any differences of opinion on how to set up this group read?
bah- touchstones!
another edit to clarify the books/ chapters debate. In my edition each section is called a book. There are 9 books that make up the Histories and I was suggesting a separate thread for each section.
In the original discussions I believe that most people wanted to read a section per month so that they did not have to read the whole book straight through. So allowing a thread per book/chapter allows for this.
Any thoughts and opinions on when it is best to set up separate threads?
Edit to link thread. (sorry to not have done this when I first posted the thread but have been having computer/ LAN problems)
Thread - http://www.librarything.com/topic/79046
Introductions, Notes and Addendums
A thread for non-edition specific information.
Here is where we can talk about; ask questions about and just share the additional information from our different editions!
Thread - http://www.librarything.com/topic/80565
Book 1
Thoughts, reactions, opinions and questions on the first section of The Histories.
Book 2 thread is here http://www.librarything.com/topic/83705
Book 3 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/85977
Book 4 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/88166
Book 5 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/90113
Book 6 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/92096
Book 7 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/94011
Book 8 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/95922
Book 9 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/97817
I don't know if other people have a better idea of how to structure this but I was thinking along the lines of this thread for general discussion - so to talk about things like:-
1 - which translation?
2 - what is in your edition as an introduction?
3 - any general questions.
Then for each book (chapter) its own thread which allows for specific questions; thoughts and opinions and debate. That way people can read at their own pace and if they are not interested in a particular section they can skip the debate.
My thinking is that this would be along the lines of a conversation.
I would also like to post a link to this discussion in other groups - so if you are a member of any group where people might want to join a discussion but not undertake this challenge you can still join in.
Any differences of opinion on how to set up this group read?
bah- touchstones!
another edit to clarify the books/ chapters debate. In my edition each section is called a book. There are 9 books that make up the Histories and I was suggesting a separate thread for each section.
In the original discussions I believe that most people wanted to read a section per month so that they did not have to read the whole book straight through. So allowing a thread per book/chapter allows for this.
Any thoughts and opinions on when it is best to set up separate threads?
Edit to link thread. (sorry to not have done this when I first posted the thread but have been having computer/ LAN problems)
Thread - http://www.librarything.com/topic/79046
Introductions, Notes and Addendums
A thread for non-edition specific information.
Here is where we can talk about; ask questions about and just share the additional information from our different editions!
Thread - http://www.librarything.com/topic/80565
Book 1
Thoughts, reactions, opinions and questions on the first section of The Histories.
Book 2 thread is here http://www.librarything.com/topic/83705
Book 3 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/85977
Book 4 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/88166
Book 5 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/90113
Book 6 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/92096
Book 7 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/94011
Book 8 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/95922
Book 9 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/97817
2calm
So I'll start by saying that I have a Penguin classics edition; translated by Aubrey de Selincourt; copyright 1954.
It is the revised version with notes and introduction by A. R. Burns (1972)
My copy was published in 1980 (it has been on my shelf a long time!)
I know that there are other translations with different notes, maps and additional information and I think it would be interesting to see how this affects our opinions. Anybody else agree?
It is the revised version with notes and introduction by A. R. Burns (1972)
My copy was published in 1980 (it has been on my shelf a long time!)
I know that there are other translations with different notes, maps and additional information and I think it would be interesting to see how this affects our opinions. Anybody else agree?
3hailelib
I have the Penguin with the translation by Aubrey de Selincourt (1954). It is revised with an introduction and notes by John Marincola (copyright 1996,2003).
Your suggestion about organization sounds good.
Your suggestion about organization sounds good.
4_Zoe_
I don't have my books on hand right now, but I'm going to be using the Loeb edition. It's a dual-language edition, and I'm hoping over the course of this group read to gradually reduce my reliance on the translation.... *gulp*.
I'll be back with more information about the introduction etc.
I'll be back with more information about the introduction etc.
5FicusFan
I just saw this thread, and would be interested in a group read for this book. The different threads per version sounds interesting, but only if there are enough people per version, otherwise it would be very lonely.
My version is Barnes & Noble Classics,
Histories (between 449 and 447 BC)
Translated by G.C Macaulay (1890)
and Revised throughout by Donald Lateiner (2004)
Consulting Editorial Director: George Stade
I have a little over a page about Herodotus to start (No attribution)
Then a Table of Contents which has:
List of Maps
The World of Herodotus and the Histories (time line 560-414 BC)
Introduction by Donald Lateiner
A Brief Note on the Text (Donald Lateiner)
Translator's Preface (G.C. Macaulay, Footnote: Abridged remarks and notes, Editor has added new ones in the Text)
Then the start of the Histories
My version is Barnes & Noble Classics,
Histories (between 449 and 447 BC)
Translated by G.C Macaulay (1890)
and Revised throughout by Donald Lateiner (2004)
Consulting Editorial Director: George Stade
I have a little over a page about Herodotus to start (No attribution)
Then a Table of Contents which has:
List of Maps
The World of Herodotus and the Histories (time line 560-414 BC)
Introduction by Donald Lateiner
A Brief Note on the Text (Donald Lateiner)
Translator's Preface (G.C. Macaulay, Footnote: Abridged remarks and notes, Editor has added new ones in the Text)
Then the start of the Histories
7calm
#5/6 FicusFan and_Zoe_
I think the one constant about the Histories is the 9 book layout (please correct me if I am wrong) so one book a month takes us up to September. One thread per month per book. Apologies if that wasn't clear in the OP;)
So far 4 people have posted and we all have different editions so I was not suggesting different threads for different versions - but knowing which versions people are using to see if different translators/editions affect how we read the Histories.
We are going to have different introductions, notes and I was also suggesting knowing what additional general information is available and sharing it.
I think the one constant about the Histories is the 9 book layout (please correct me if I am wrong) so one book a month takes us up to September. One thread per month per book. Apologies if that wasn't clear in the OP;)
So far 4 people have posted and we all have different editions so I was not suggesting different threads for different versions - but knowing which versions people are using to see if different translators/editions affect how we read the Histories.
We are going to have different introductions, notes and I was also suggesting knowing what additional general information is available and sharing it.
8FicusFan
#1
Then for each book its own thread which allows for specific questions; thoughts and opinions and debate. That way people can read at their own pace and if they are not interested in a particular section they can skip the debate.
I took that to mean each different version of the book. I know internally they are called books, but they are just chapters.
Then for each book its own thread which allows for specific questions; thoughts and opinions and debate. That way people can read at their own pace and if they are not interested in a particular section they can skip the debate.
I took that to mean each different version of the book. I know internally they are called books, but they are just chapters.
9calm
(Sorry FicusFan my edit of #7 crossposted with your #8)
I came back to edit my previous post as I realised I still might not have explained what I meant.
They are chapters but from the earlier discussion* people wanted a very slow group read so that they could do other things as well.
*earlier discussion was on various threads in the 1010!
I came back to edit my previous post as I realised I still might not have explained what I meant.
They are chapters but from the earlier discussion* people wanted a very slow group read so that they could do other things as well.
*earlier discussion was on various threads in the 1010!
10jfetting
I think I'm going to be joining in this group read, too. I haven't picked up a copy yet. Is there a translation that is supposed to be particularly good?
11_Zoe_
Thanks for clarifying. I figured that must have been where the confusion lay.
I do prefer the term "books" to "chapters" in this case :)
I do prefer the term "books" to "chapters" in this case :)
12FicusFan
But "books" are confusing when there are multiple versions/issues of the actual whole book. "Chapters" means internal to the book regardless of version.
13calm
#10 jfetting:- I hope someone else can answer that because I have no idea of which translation is best. I brought the subject up because I know that translation is to some extent a matter of personal interpretation and preference.
I am completely in awe of _Zoe_ who is going to (or at least trying to) read it in the original Greek.
I live in a bilingual country and can still only read and speak English. (I understand a little bit of some other languages).
I better change the OP to read books/chapters!
I am completely in awe of _Zoe_ who is going to (or at least trying to) read it in the original Greek.
I live in a bilingual country and can still only read and speak English. (I understand a little bit of some other languages).
I better change the OP to read books/chapters!
14_Zoe_
>12 FicusFan: But "books" is the terminology that's actually used everywhere (for example, look at the Wikipedia page). Inventing our own terminology for the purposes of this group will only lead to more confusion in the long run. There are plenty of other words to use for the meaning you want from "books": versions, editions, translations, etc.
edit: I don't object to books/chapters, though :)
edit: I don't object to books/chapters, though :)
15_Zoe_
I am completely in awe of _Zoe_ who is going to (or at least trying to) read it in the original Greek.
Well, "trying" is the key word here! This is why I'm really glad we're doing only one book a month. At least there's some hope.
Well, "trying" is the key word here! This is why I'm really glad we're doing only one book a month. At least there's some hope.
16calm
Copy and paste of an edit in the OP (if you are like me and have started to read this thread you're not likely to spot any changes:) (I am not normally this formal but - help! I've never organised a Group Read before)
edit to clarify the books/ chapters debate. In my edition each section is called a book. There are 9 books that make up the Histories and I was suggesting a separate thread for each section.
In the original discussions I believe that most people wanted to read a section per month so that they did not have to read the whole book straight through. So allowing a thread per book/chapter allows for this.
Any thoughts and opinions on when it is best to set up separate threads?
edit to clarify the books/ chapters debate. In my edition each section is called a book. There are 9 books that make up the Histories and I was suggesting a separate thread for each section.
In the original discussions I believe that most people wanted to read a section per month so that they did not have to read the whole book straight through. So allowing a thread per book/chapter allows for this.
Any thoughts and opinions on when it is best to set up separate threads?
17_Zoe_
I would set up each thread at the beginning of the month, I think.
I have no experience in running group reads, though... thanks for doing this!
I have no experience in running group reads, though... thanks for doing this!
18FicusFan
> 14 the terminology is used to discuss one edition, and in one sitting, thus there is no confusion.
To discuss various editions, over several months will indeed cause confusion as to whether books means editions or chapters. Some maybe self-explanatory, but some will not.
To discuss various editions, over several months will indeed cause confusion as to whether books means editions or chapters. Some maybe self-explanatory, but some will not.
19FicusFan
Thank you for the clarification in the OP calm.
Setting one thread each month sounds fine.
Will you have a thread for all the stuff before the book starts (intro, preface, notes) ?
Setting one thread each month sounds fine.
Will you have a thread for all the stuff before the book starts (intro, preface, notes) ?
20auntmarge64
I have The Landmark Herodotus: The Histories, edited by Robert B. Strassler and translated by Andrea L. Purvis. Pantheon, 2007. There is a 26-page introduction, editor's and translator's prefaces, and a dated outline of the text. There are also 21 appendices, a glossary, and bibliographies of ancient sources and of books for the general reader. Illustrated, annotated, and includes hundreds of maps.
Having a schedule of one book/section per month works for me because I'm on an October-to-September reading schedule for the challenge. That means I'd better move my butt to read the intro material....
Having a thread per book/chapter makes sense, so folks can read at their own pace. Perhaps there should also be a thread for introductory material and/or addendum.
Having a schedule of one book/section per month works for me because I'm on an October-to-September reading schedule for the challenge. That means I'd better move my butt to read the intro material....
Having a thread per book/chapter makes sense, so folks can read at their own pace. Perhaps there should also be a thread for introductory material and/or addendum.
21calm
Ok I'll set up an introductory thread now so that people can start. Right here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/79046
I hope auntmarge64 doesn't mind but I copy and pasted the information about the Landmark into my OP! That is way more than my copies 30 page introduction, minimal footnotes and 2 maps!
http://www.librarything.com/topic/79046
I hope auntmarge64 doesn't mind but I copy and pasted the information about the Landmark into my OP! That is way more than my copies 30 page introduction, minimal footnotes and 2 maps!
22auntmarge64
>21 calm: No problem.....
23janoorani24
I have two translations:
The Landmark Herodotus edited by Robert B. Strassler, published by Pantheon Books in 2007. The introductory material includes a 28 page introduction by Rosalind Thomas, a 12 page editor's preface, a two page translator's preface by Andrea L. Purvis, and a 14 page dated outline of the text.
My other copy, which I've had for several years, is the 1998 Oxford University Press translation by Robin Waterfield with an introduction and notes by Carolyn Dewald. The introduction is 33 pages, the translator's note is one page. The introductory material also includes a select bibliography, and a six page timeline. I bought this copy because I like Waterfiled's translation of Plato's Syposium so much, that I wanted to read something else he had translated.
I plan to compare the two translations as we read them, but I have to admit to a pre-formed bias to the Landmark Herodotus -- the book itself is such a work of art.
The Landmark Herodotus edited by Robert B. Strassler, published by Pantheon Books in 2007. The introductory material includes a 28 page introduction by Rosalind Thomas, a 12 page editor's preface, a two page translator's preface by Andrea L. Purvis, and a 14 page dated outline of the text.
My other copy, which I've had for several years, is the 1998 Oxford University Press translation by Robin Waterfield with an introduction and notes by Carolyn Dewald. The introduction is 33 pages, the translator's note is one page. The introductory material also includes a select bibliography, and a six page timeline. I bought this copy because I like Waterfiled's translation of Plato's Syposium so much, that I wanted to read something else he had translated.
I plan to compare the two translations as we read them, but I have to admit to a pre-formed bias to the Landmark Herodotus -- the book itself is such a work of art.
24Eat_Read_Knit
I'm going to try to join with this one.
I have the Penguin 2003 edition: John Marincola's revision of the de Selincourt translation, with notes, lots of maps and timelines, and a hefty list of further reading.
I have the Penguin 2003 edition: John Marincola's revision of the de Selincourt translation, with notes, lots of maps and timelines, and a hefty list of further reading.
25lauranav
I have the Barnes and Noble edition described by FicusFan above.
I agree, starting each thread at the beginning of each month, and a thread for each book/section/chapter is good.
I'm looking forward to this.
The Book discussion is interesting. When I talk to friends who don't read large books or classics and I talk about how Les Miserable or Herodotus has so many books (and in Les Mis the books contain chapters), I then have to explain and end up falling back on "sections".
I agree, starting each thread at the beginning of each month, and a thread for each book/section/chapter is good.
I'm looking forward to this.
The Book discussion is interesting. When I talk to friends who don't read large books or classics and I talk about how Les Miserable or Herodotus has so many books (and in Les Mis the books contain chapters), I then have to explain and end up falling back on "sections".
26dk_phoenix
Thanks so much to Zoe for pointing me over here... I've been meaning to get back into reading ancient Greek for quite some time now, but never quite had the right motivation... this might be just the thing!!! I'm going to track down my Loeb edition and try to do this along with you all... I think it'll be really interesting to see different interpretations with different editions!
27sjmccreary
I've wanted to read this book for a long time, just not NOW. Of course, I've been saying that for years which is why I never read the book. I'm going to give it a go - beginning with a library copy. If I love it and want to continue, I can go buy my very own book. They have the Pantheon Landmark Herodotus 2007, which seems to be a popular version.
28AnnieMod
I think I posted in one of the other threads (the Introductions one?) but just posting here as well - I will be working through the Landmark Herodotus edited by Robert B. Strassler. It's about time for me to get back to ancient history :)
30auntmarge64
I just want to repeat from the Intro thread, which some people may not be reading, that Amazon now has the Landmark version available for Kindle or for the Kindle app for computer or iPhone. $9.99. The maps will not be usable (not resizeable), but for anyone who doesn't need the maps, or who has the print version and wants a lighter weight addition for reading the text, it's a great alternative.
31calm
I've put a link to the introductions, notes and addendums thread in the OP.
I will try to remember to link each new thread there as we go along.
I do hope people don't mind a certain amount of confusion and disorganisation. I followed a couple of group reads last year and by starting this thread to ask how people wanted to structure the group read (or if they wanted a structure) seem to have volunteered myself:)
Like some other people this is one of those books that has been on my shelf, languishing unread. Finding a group of people who want to read it was a spur to (literally) dusting it off. I am looking forward to finding out exactly what Herodotus is all about.
I will try to remember to link each new thread there as we go along.
I do hope people don't mind a certain amount of confusion and disorganisation. I followed a couple of group reads last year and by starting this thread to ask how people wanted to structure the group read (or if they wanted a structure) seem to have volunteered myself:)
Like some other people this is one of those books that has been on my shelf, languishing unread. Finding a group of people who want to read it was a spur to (literally) dusting it off. I am looking forward to finding out exactly what Herodotus is all about.
32auntmarge64
>31 calm: I do hope people don't mind a certain amount of confusion and disorganisation.
You've got to be kidding!!! :) Everyone's just glad someone else got their act together!
You've got to be kidding!!! :) Everyone's just glad someone else got their act together!
33Tanglewood
Count me in as well! Although I don't have it with me, my copy is the '97 Everyman Library edition by Knopf. The translation is by George Rawlinson.
I'm going to pick up a copy of the Landmark edition, though. I have the the Landmark Thucydides, which is fantastic. I look forward to comparing the two translations.
I'm going to pick up a copy of the Landmark edition, though. I have the the Landmark Thucydides, which is fantastic. I look forward to comparing the two translations.
34calm
I just set up the Book 1 thread. The link is in the OP.
It's nice to see so much interest and I hope that this will be a fun and informative Group Read ;-)
It's nice to see so much interest and I hope that this will be a fun and informative Group Read ;-)
35ChrDaisies
I think I'd like to join you.
36englishrose60
Me too! My copy is vol.6 of Great Books of the Western World.
37Welachild
I'd like to join, my copy is trans. by Aubrey de Selincourt and revised by John Marincola, 1996. A little off topic question, while looking for the copyright date I noticed a statement underneath, "The moral right of the editor has been asserted", what exactly does that mean? I've never seen that before.
38auntmarge64
I've been thinking about the timing of setting up the threads for each book and wondering if it would upset the cart if we set up the threads now for people working at different speeds. To me it seems a toss-up between:
1) waiting until the start of each month and people who read ahead losing some of the intensity in what they remember when it's time to comment
2) having all threads running simultaneously and people commenting as they read, but obviously sometimes at greater time differences.
1) waiting until the start of each month and people who read ahead losing some of the intensity in what they remember when it's time to comment
2) having all threads running simultaneously and people commenting as they read, but obviously sometimes at greater time differences.
39torontoc
I have been lurking but would like to join the group read- I have the Landmark Herodotus with the translation by Robert B. Strassler.I am still reading introduction.
40calm
Welcome to everyone who wants to join this read. Sorry I haven't been keeping up this month but I've been a bit distracted. I've set up the thread for the second book here :-
http://www.librarything.com/topic/83705
Hope everyone is enjoying the read and I'll be posting more soon — with any luck;-)
http://www.librarything.com/topic/83705
Hope everyone is enjoying the read and I'll be posting more soon — with any luck;-)
42PensiveCat
Oh man I have to catch up!
43calm
Guess what - it's another month - so I've set up the next thread. I'm still reading, very slowly - so many books on the go! I'll be along to comment when I've read this month's section but please carry on here:-
http://www.librarything.com/topic/88166
http://www.librarything.com/topic/88166
44calm
There are still a few of us reading and commenting. If anybody else wants to join in May's thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/90113
See you there;-)
http://www.librarything.com/topic/90113
See you there;-)
45AnnieMod
Travelling... and that's not a book I can carry with me halfway across the world.
Should catch up with you all in June when I am home :)
Should catch up with you all in June when I am home :)
46calm
After LT downtime and getting error messages when I tried to post a new thread. I've finally managed to post the book 6 thread.
http://www.librarything.com/topic/92096
I'll look forward to seeing your thoughts and opinions on this section of the book.
http://www.librarything.com/topic/92096
I'll look forward to seeing your thoughts and opinions on this section of the book.
47calm
Book 7 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/94011
I hope to catch up with everybody soon;)
http://www.librarything.com/topic/94011
I hope to catch up with everybody soon;)
48auntmarge64
I've finished the Landmark edition and posted a review: http://www.librarything.com/work/6684358. I'll wait for the threads for books 8 and 9 to comment on the content.
50calm
The First of September so it's time for book 9.
Book 9 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/97817
Book 9 thread is here
http://www.librarything.com/topic/97817
