This topic is currently marked as "dormant"—the last message is more than 90 days old. You can revive it by posting a reply.
1Stevia
Hi all,
This is obviously a very loaded question and one which I wish I could connect to both the philosophy group and here.
Have you come across anything in your reading of Greco-Roman philosophy which made you go 'Wow, that still matters today,'?
This is obviously a very loaded question and one which I wish I could connect to both the philosophy group and here.
Have you come across anything in your reading of Greco-Roman philosophy which made you go 'Wow, that still matters today,'?
2Garp83
At the risk of sounding cliche, that is exactly how I felt on both readings of The Iliad. It is chilling in many ways.
3Feicht
Thucydides!
Not really philosophy as such, but still... totally relevant.
I also recently had a class in Roman philosophy which went from the time of Cicero up to Augustine, and yeah some of what these guys were sitting around thinking of still has some resonance. But at this second though I just think the historical stuff means more, because these are concrete examples of what to do and not do... but nobody even knows about it anymore.
EDIT: Case in point: America has been on its own "Sicilian Expedition" for like 9 years.
Not really philosophy as such, but still... totally relevant.
I also recently had a class in Roman philosophy which went from the time of Cicero up to Augustine, and yeah some of what these guys were sitting around thinking of still has some resonance. But at this second though I just think the historical stuff means more, because these are concrete examples of what to do and not do... but nobody even knows about it anymore.
EDIT: Case in point: America has been on its own "Sicilian Expedition" for like 9 years.
4Makifat
Absolutely. Despite my recent misfortunes with Pater's Marius the Epicurean, I would still maintain that, particularly for an atheist/agnostic, there is a lot to gain from the scant extant writings of Epicurus. He is a nice antidote to religious sentimentalism.
5Stevia
@Feicht: Well, I would hestitate to circumscribe ancient texts neatly with generic terms. I think, for example, that the preface to Livy's history is very philosophical.
@Makifat: Have you read Lucretius' On the Nature of Things? It's Epicurean philosophy in an epic. Mightly impressive and poetic. The unfinished final book is particularly harrowing with it's account of the Athenian plague (one of my favourite accounts in Thucydides).
I guess I shouldn't have used the term 'philosophy' without making clear that I was by no means confining it to a select corpus of works.
@Makifat: Have you read Lucretius' On the Nature of Things? It's Epicurean philosophy in an epic. Mightly impressive and poetic. The unfinished final book is particularly harrowing with it's account of the Athenian plague (one of my favourite accounts in Thucydides).
I guess I shouldn't have used the term 'philosophy' without making clear that I was by no means confining it to a select corpus of works.
6anthonywillard
Plato framed most if not all the fundamental questions of Western Philosophy and these are still fundamental questions today. The works which have the most impact on me personally are the Phaedo, the Euthyphro, and of course the Republic. Some of the later works which seem very abstract to me, however, may in fact have more current philosophical interest.
I really regret the loss of Democritus. I suspect that if he had survived he would be the most popular today of the Greek philosophers.
Lucretius seems to emphasize the physics of Epicureanism, to the neglect of the ethical. But today the atomistic physics is just a given, and the Epicurean statement of it is way pre-adequate.
The ethical and psychological parts resonate strongly today, though people don't always like to consider themselves Epicureans. Because we are all atomists, and so many of us are materialists, the consequences for human life and thought just seem kind of obvious.
Aristotle's analysis of logic is of course still fundamental. I have always found his other works severely limited to their time. Yet he contains a lot of good sentences and brief opinions that ring true and appear like the most sublime common sense.
The Cynics always talked in aphorisms. Some of these are right on the money today. They have a lot to say to people involved in simple living.
Sextus Empiricus has never been out of date. He has to be answered again in every generation. I do not find that the Stoics and Neoplatonists have much relevance today, though there are those who think Stoicism has an enormous amount to offer contemporary ethics. I am not ready to go with this thought, but it will be nice if it turns out to be true.
The elephant in the room is of course Christianity, some of whose thinkers are philosophical, even in antiquity. I will continue to treat them as an elephant, an unexamined object.
I really regret the loss of Democritus. I suspect that if he had survived he would be the most popular today of the Greek philosophers.
Lucretius seems to emphasize the physics of Epicureanism, to the neglect of the ethical. But today the atomistic physics is just a given, and the Epicurean statement of it is way pre-adequate.
The ethical and psychological parts resonate strongly today, though people don't always like to consider themselves Epicureans. Because we are all atomists, and so many of us are materialists, the consequences for human life and thought just seem kind of obvious.
Aristotle's analysis of logic is of course still fundamental. I have always found his other works severely limited to their time. Yet he contains a lot of good sentences and brief opinions that ring true and appear like the most sublime common sense.
The Cynics always talked in aphorisms. Some of these are right on the money today. They have a lot to say to people involved in simple living.
Sextus Empiricus has never been out of date. He has to be answered again in every generation. I do not find that the Stoics and Neoplatonists have much relevance today, though there are those who think Stoicism has an enormous amount to offer contemporary ethics. I am not ready to go with this thought, but it will be nice if it turns out to be true.
The elephant in the room is of course Christianity, some of whose thinkers are philosophical, even in antiquity. I will continue to treat them as an elephant, an unexamined object.
7Makifat
5
Of course! Lucretius is a favorite, writing for the noble goal of freeing mankind from the irrationalities of religion and the fear of death. For me (and for others, I suspect) it is the ethical and psychological aspects of these philosophies that resonate most today. The science is fine from a historical perspective, but there has been a lot of water under that Heraclitean bridge in the last few millennia. (I have volume 7 of an old set of Aristotle entitled Problemata, bizarre musings on "scientific observations" now useful only for their comic value and unlikely to have been written by Aristotle himself.)
I still keep a little hardbound copy of Selections from Early Greek Philosophy in the car. I use it to confound the children when Mom is browsing T.J. Maxx.
6
Stoicism is waaaay overrated. I think of it as a cause of, rather than a cure for, late Roman constipation. ;)
Of course! Lucretius is a favorite, writing for the noble goal of freeing mankind from the irrationalities of religion and the fear of death. For me (and for others, I suspect) it is the ethical and psychological aspects of these philosophies that resonate most today. The science is fine from a historical perspective, but there has been a lot of water under that Heraclitean bridge in the last few millennia. (I have volume 7 of an old set of Aristotle entitled Problemata, bizarre musings on "scientific observations" now useful only for their comic value and unlikely to have been written by Aristotle himself.)
I still keep a little hardbound copy of Selections from Early Greek Philosophy in the car. I use it to confound the children when Mom is browsing T.J. Maxx.
6
Stoicism is waaaay overrated. I think of it as a cause of, rather than a cure for, late Roman constipation. ;)
9Garp83
During the tragic Peloponnesian War that ravaged Greek civilization in the 5th century BCE, Athens launches a second front (in the long war between the Athenian Empire & the alliance of Sparta-Thebes-Corinth) by staging a mega-expedition against Sicily in the West with a huge fleet led by three strategoi (including the bad boy Alcibiades)who are less than cooperative with one another. The expedition ends in a mega-disaster with the entire fleet destroyed and most the Athenians killed in battle, executed or dying in slave labor in Sicily.
Thucydides presents it as a value lesson in bombastic demagogues hijacking the radical democracy from the late, more cautious Pericles who warned early on against foreign adventures. That is probably a too simplistic explanation for a host of bad decisions on the part of the Athenians, but the epic fail in Sicily has been legendary caution of what not to do for 2500 years. I recommend you read Thucydides as well as perhaps Kagan's history to get a sense of just how devastating this defeat was for Athens.
Thucydides presents it as a value lesson in bombastic demagogues hijacking the radical democracy from the late, more cautious Pericles who warned early on against foreign adventures. That is probably a too simplistic explanation for a host of bad decisions on the part of the Athenians, but the epic fail in Sicily has been legendary caution of what not to do for 2500 years. I recommend you read Thucydides as well as perhaps Kagan's history to get a sense of just how devastating this defeat was for Athens.
10prosfilaes
There's a number of books about living the Stoic life out there; A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy is the one I read and it was quite interesting, but I haven't got around to reading the originals to compare it to the ancient philosophy.
11wildbill
I can think of a couple of reasons why much of the best of Greco-Roman philosophy and literature is relevant today. First it is very good writing. I usually read the Iliad and the Odyssey once a year and enjoy them every time. When I first read Plato's dialogs I was amazed by how contemporary the writing sounded. Socrates is walking along and runs into Hippothales, Ctesippus and some young men standing with them and they start talking about a new building where they get together and enjoy some good conversation, (from the beginning of Lysis). Except for the names it could be the start of something written ten years ago. You have to be a good writer to stay in print over two thousand years.
Second the questions and ideas that are the subject of the writing are the basic questions of life which by and large are still open for discussion. Robert Maynard Hutchins wrote about the Great Conversation which has been going on since two people started talking about these basic questions.
This thread is testimony to the relevance and value of what the different authors had to say. Unfortunately too many people never pick up one of these books to find out for themselves what they have to offer.
Second the questions and ideas that are the subject of the writing are the basic questions of life which by and large are still open for discussion. Robert Maynard Hutchins wrote about the Great Conversation which has been going on since two people started talking about these basic questions.
This thread is testimony to the relevance and value of what the different authors had to say. Unfortunately too many people never pick up one of these books to find out for themselves what they have to offer.
12anthonywillard
@prosfilaes 10
I have seen that book A Guide to the Good Life on Amazon and wondered if it was worth getting. Since you recommend it, I will check it out. Thanks.
I have seen that book A Guide to the Good Life on Amazon and wondered if it was worth getting. Since you recommend it, I will check it out. Thanks.
13bjza
I really don't know much about ancient philosophy, but it usually falls far outside my areas of philosophical interest in philosophy anyway (science, mind, maths).
The relevance of ancient literature I can totally stand behind. Gilgamesh and the Iliad are two of my favorite works.
The relevance of ancient literature I can totally stand behind. Gilgamesh and the Iliad are two of my favorite works.
14stellarexplorer
>1 Stevia: I am curious about what made you pose this question Stevia?
"Have you come across anything in your reading of Greco-Roman philosophy which made you go 'Wow, that still matters today,'?" sounds somewhat like the suggestion that perhaps, somewhere, someone has identified a relevant philosophical notion in ancient philosophy, and if so, you would like to be so informed. In other words, a rejection.
But it is hard to believe that you actually hold such a dismissive position, so I'm guessing you had a reason for being interested in how people would answer this. Care to elaborate?
Personally I am happy with >6 anthonywillard: anthonywillard, whose first sentence is particularly on point.
"Have you come across anything in your reading of Greco-Roman philosophy which made you go 'Wow, that still matters today,'?" sounds somewhat like the suggestion that perhaps, somewhere, someone has identified a relevant philosophical notion in ancient philosophy, and if so, you would like to be so informed. In other words, a rejection.
But it is hard to believe that you actually hold such a dismissive position, so I'm guessing you had a reason for being interested in how people would answer this. Care to elaborate?
Personally I am happy with >6 anthonywillard: anthonywillard, whose first sentence is particularly on point.
15shikari
I think the basic philosophical question from Socrates to the Stoics and the Epicurians is still the most relevent question today: "how can I live a life of _arete_ ('excellence', 'virtue' but without neccesarily implying (or rejecting) the Christian virtues)?" "What is _arete_?" is, naturally the next question.
16Stevia
@anthonywillard, thanks for your comment, very much a good survey. I can't help but think your reading of Lucretius is simplistic: his poetry is provocative, and book 6 itself raises very important questions about whether or not philosophy can really help us deal with catastrophe.
@Makifat: Naw, Stoicism is just a category, read some of the authors... like Seneca, they are not as boring as the Stoic label suggests ;).
@stellarexplorer. It was hardly a rejection which prompted this question. I did my undergraduate in Classics and Philosophy and am now doing postgraduate work in how philosophy and literature intersect in Seneca. I guess the reception of ideas is always something which has intrigued me. I know that here, I am speaking to an audience who are affected by what they read, and I was just curious as to whether people had had distinct experiences of reading an ancient text which has bridged the gap between then and now.
'The history of Western philosophy is footnotes to Plato.' (The author of this quote escapes me...)
@Makifat: Naw, Stoicism is just a category, read some of the authors... like Seneca, they are not as boring as the Stoic label suggests ;).
@stellarexplorer. It was hardly a rejection which prompted this question. I did my undergraduate in Classics and Philosophy and am now doing postgraduate work in how philosophy and literature intersect in Seneca. I guess the reception of ideas is always something which has intrigued me. I know that here, I am speaking to an audience who are affected by what they read, and I was just curious as to whether people had had distinct experiences of reading an ancient text which has bridged the gap between then and now.
'The history of Western philosophy is footnotes to Plato.' (The author of this quote escapes me...)
17Makifat
Yes, Seneca is actually quite exciting in places. His grand guignol tragedies (I'm thinking Thyestes, particularly) were masterpieces of philosophical horror.
There is also an appealing morbidity in Marcus Aurelius' little handbook for life, particularly when he quotes the master Epictetus that man is but "a poor soul burdened with a corpse." Aurelius - as Nietzsche said of the thought of suicide - can get one through many a bad night.
In short, my comments re Stoicism in #7 were tongue-in-cheek.
'The history of Western philosophy is footnotes to Plato.'
I'm thinking that's Woody Allen, but that can't be right. I seem to recall a similar quote stating that all modern philosophy is commentary upon Kant...
There is also an appealing morbidity in Marcus Aurelius' little handbook for life, particularly when he quotes the master Epictetus that man is but "a poor soul burdened with a corpse." Aurelius - as Nietzsche said of the thought of suicide - can get one through many a bad night.
In short, my comments re Stoicism in #7 were tongue-in-cheek.
'The history of Western philosophy is footnotes to Plato.'
I'm thinking that's Woody Allen, but that can't be right. I seem to recall a similar quote stating that all modern philosophy is commentary upon Kant...
18stellarexplorer
Alfred North Whitehead
From the Blackwell Dictionary of Western Philosophy:
"In a famous remark, A. N. Whitehead said that the development of Western philosophy is a series of footnotes to Plato. This was not a substantive claim that every subsequent development is nothing more than an expansion or exegesis of what Plato said in his works, but should be considered as a metaphor to indicate how powerfully Plato's thought has influenced the Western tradition. Various contemporary philosophical achievements are deeply indebted to him. Plato's works are an inexhaustible mine of suggestion. The remark also points to the reflective nature of philosophy, by which earlier thought remains crucially important for later work. In contrast, science generally supersedes its past.“The safest general characterisation of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.”
Whitehead, Process and Reality
From the Blackwell Dictionary of Western Philosophy:
"In a famous remark, A. N. Whitehead said that the development of Western philosophy is a series of footnotes to Plato. This was not a substantive claim that every subsequent development is nothing more than an expansion or exegesis of what Plato said in his works, but should be considered as a metaphor to indicate how powerfully Plato's thought has influenced the Western tradition. Various contemporary philosophical achievements are deeply indebted to him. Plato's works are an inexhaustible mine of suggestion. The remark also points to the reflective nature of philosophy, by which earlier thought remains crucially important for later work. In contrast, science generally supersedes its past.“The safest general characterisation of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.”
Whitehead, Process and Reality
22anthonywillard
@16 Stevia - "I can't help but think your reading of Lucretius is simplistic."
Of course. All those readings were simplistic. I think Lucretius does devote the lion's share of his attention to Atomism, but not to say he omits the implied pragmatic and ethical conclusions.
Only in comparing his poem with the scant remnants of Epicurus does the difference in emphasis appear, and may reflect what his intended readership was particularly interested in. (Speculation on my part.)
Lucretius's poetry is a mixed bag. At its best it deserves every word of Virgil's accolades to it. Particularly in the invocations to each of the books. (Catullus is garlanded for lyrics that someone might better have scrawled on the wall of a latrine in Germany, as Wendell Clausen used to say, while Lucretius was writing Aeneadum genetrix, hominum divomque voluptas, etc., which goes unremembered, or at least I can't remember the next line. Not to put down Catullus in majore parte.) When Lucretius gets down to brass tacks, though, the verse can get awkward and repetitive. Not that I blame him. He set himself a near impossible task and did yeoman duty. As for "important questions" and observations, they are raised throughout, set in lapidary hexameters.
I gather from your response to stellarexplorer that perhaps you were not asking for opinions on the continuing value of ancient philosophy but rather for epiphanic moments that hit the reader like a ton of bricks. For me these have been non-philosophical, though sometimes in philosophical texts. For example, the above-mentioned Aeneadum genetrix prelude is one of them. In Plato, the remark about sacrificing a cock to Aesculapius. Many in Augustine, all the famous ones. You've heard them a million times, you hit them in Latin, they blow you away. Off the top of my head, your pal Seneca, didn't he write nec sit terris ultima Thule? or was that Virgil? He did write cogens iterum atque iterum noctis sublime iter. Makes me shiver. 47 years after reading it.
ETA: (47 years and a few hours after reading it I thought I had better google it. It's not Seneca, it's Ennius, and it goes Cogens etiam atque etiam Noctis sublime iter. Oh, well. Still makes me shiver, and it scans better.)
Of course. All those readings were simplistic. I think Lucretius does devote the lion's share of his attention to Atomism, but not to say he omits the implied pragmatic and ethical conclusions.
Only in comparing his poem with the scant remnants of Epicurus does the difference in emphasis appear, and may reflect what his intended readership was particularly interested in. (Speculation on my part.)
Lucretius's poetry is a mixed bag. At its best it deserves every word of Virgil's accolades to it. Particularly in the invocations to each of the books. (Catullus is garlanded for lyrics that someone might better have scrawled on the wall of a latrine in Germany, as Wendell Clausen used to say, while Lucretius was writing Aeneadum genetrix, hominum divomque voluptas, etc., which goes unremembered, or at least I can't remember the next line. Not to put down Catullus in majore parte.) When Lucretius gets down to brass tacks, though, the verse can get awkward and repetitive. Not that I blame him. He set himself a near impossible task and did yeoman duty. As for "important questions" and observations, they are raised throughout, set in lapidary hexameters.
I gather from your response to stellarexplorer that perhaps you were not asking for opinions on the continuing value of ancient philosophy but rather for epiphanic moments that hit the reader like a ton of bricks. For me these have been non-philosophical, though sometimes in philosophical texts. For example, the above-mentioned Aeneadum genetrix prelude is one of them. In Plato, the remark about sacrificing a cock to Aesculapius. Many in Augustine, all the famous ones. You've heard them a million times, you hit them in Latin, they blow you away. Off the top of my head, your pal Seneca, didn't he write nec sit terris ultima Thule? or was that Virgil? He did write cogens iterum atque iterum noctis sublime iter. Makes me shiver. 47 years after reading it.
ETA: (47 years and a few hours after reading it I thought I had better google it. It's not Seneca, it's Ennius, and it goes Cogens etiam atque etiam Noctis sublime iter. Oh, well. Still makes me shiver, and it scans better.)
23thcson
If a work of philosophy or literature has been read and interpreted for 2000 years or more, it's safe to say that it matters today and will continue to matter in the future. That's what sets all ancient texts apart from recent ones.
24wildbill
Three times I tried to write this little story and failed.
When Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes was 92 years old one of his clerks walked into his office and found him reading. Looking at the book Holmes was reading his clerk asked, "Sir, why are you reading Plato?" Justice Holmes replied, "I'm improving my mind."
When Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes was 92 years old one of his clerks walked into his office and found him reading. Looking at the book Holmes was reading his clerk asked, "Sir, why are you reading Plato?" Justice Holmes replied, "I'm improving my mind."
25anthonywillard
Fourth time's a charm. One to remember.
26Stevia
@athonywillard: "Off the top of my head, your pal Seneca, didn't he write nec sit terris ultima Thule?" Yup, in a Choral Ode in the Medea, off the top of my head. And good ol' Ennius ought to make you shiver; I wish we had more of his works remaining.
There is a particularly gruesome scene in Seneca's Trojan Women, where the messenger is recounting the deaths of the children; and these few lines have always resonated with me, with a vividness which I find hard to dismiss:
soluta ceruix silicis impulsu, caput
ruptum cerebro penitus expresso: iacet
deforme corpus
'His neck unhinged by the impact with the rock, his head/ split, his brain squeezed out: he lies/ a shapless corpse.'
I can't do justice to the Latin... but it is such a forceful reminder of the violence children suffer during war-time, and not in a statistical manner, but in a very clear image. It's harrowing.
I've considered (seriously) getting a tatoo of the words of Medea around my wrist, but it would be very hubristic of me to do so:
hic mare et terras uides / ferrumque et ignes et deos et fulmina
'Here you see sea and lands / and iron-fire-gods and thunderbolts!'
There is a particularly gruesome scene in Seneca's Trojan Women, where the messenger is recounting the deaths of the children; and these few lines have always resonated with me, with a vividness which I find hard to dismiss:
soluta ceruix silicis impulsu, caput
ruptum cerebro penitus expresso: iacet
deforme corpus
'His neck unhinged by the impact with the rock, his head/ split, his brain squeezed out: he lies/ a shapless corpse.'
I can't do justice to the Latin... but it is such a forceful reminder of the violence children suffer during war-time, and not in a statistical manner, but in a very clear image. It's harrowing.
I've considered (seriously) getting a tatoo of the words of Medea around my wrist, but it would be very hubristic of me to do so:
hic mare et terras uides / ferrumque et ignes et deos et fulmina
'Here you see sea and lands / and iron-fire-gods and thunderbolts!'
27anthonywillard
@stevia - Now of course you see I have to go out and find a good edition of the tragedies. LT strikes again. I might have had one once but now all I have is the prose.
The child crushed on the rocks brings to mind the scene in Kakoyannis's Trojan Women where if I recall correctly, the fall of Astyanax is portrayed through the child's eyes, falling. A bitter anti-war play for us during Viet Nam, and not inapposite today. Time for a revival. Along with Iphigeneia.
Did Seneca mainly derive his plots from Euripides? The line from Medea is corruscating, but I don't know. Tattoos last a long time. Nice translation. Were these tragedies ever staged, or just declaimed? I can hear that line being delivered.
The child crushed on the rocks brings to mind the scene in Kakoyannis's Trojan Women where if I recall correctly, the fall of Astyanax is portrayed through the child's eyes, falling. A bitter anti-war play for us during Viet Nam, and not inapposite today. Time for a revival. Along with Iphigeneia.
Did Seneca mainly derive his plots from Euripides? The line from Medea is corruscating, but I don't know. Tattoos last a long time. Nice translation. Were these tragedies ever staged, or just declaimed? I can hear that line being delivered.
28Stevia
@anthonywillard
It's hard to say if Seneca simply derived his plots from Euripides, of course there are similiarities, but more importantly, most of the Latin tragedies prior to Seneca are lost or fragmentary (e.g. Accius, Ennius, Ovid's Medea). The plots do differ in significant aspects from Euripides. For example, in Seneca's 'Medea', she kills her children ON STAGE. Also, in Euripides' 'Trojan Women' only has the death of Astyanax, the death of Polyxena is portrayed in his 'Hecuba'; Seneca has both of them killed in one play.
As to the staging of these tragedies we don't have any record of them being performed in antiquity, but that does not rule out the possibility. There used to be the view about 20-30 years ago that they were not performable, but recent studies in the performance of these tragedies from the Renaissance to the modern day indicates that this is not the case.
It's hard to say if Seneca simply derived his plots from Euripides, of course there are similiarities, but more importantly, most of the Latin tragedies prior to Seneca are lost or fragmentary (e.g. Accius, Ennius, Ovid's Medea). The plots do differ in significant aspects from Euripides. For example, in Seneca's 'Medea', she kills her children ON STAGE. Also, in Euripides' 'Trojan Women' only has the death of Astyanax, the death of Polyxena is portrayed in his 'Hecuba'; Seneca has both of them killed in one play.
As to the staging of these tragedies we don't have any record of them being performed in antiquity, but that does not rule out the possibility. There used to be the view about 20-30 years ago that they were not performable, but recent studies in the performance of these tragedies from the Renaissance to the modern day indicates that this is not the case.
29anthonywillard
@Stevia -- Always more to learn. Are you writing a book about this?
30Stevia
@anthonywillard -- Nope, I'm writing an MA thesis on Senecan philosophy :).
31anthonywillard
@ Stevia -- Well, when you finish the thesis, be sure to get it publlished. By anyone except Routledge! You will have an eager readership here on LT!
32anthonywillard
Finally found the book at the bottom of a pile on the floor: the aforementioned quote from A. N. Whitehead:
"The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato. I do not mean the systematic scheme of thought which scholars have doubtfully extracted from his writings. I allude to the wealth of general ideas scattered through them. His personal endowments, his wide opportunities for experience at a great period of civilization, his inheritance of an intellectual tradition not yet stiffened by excessive systematization, have made his writings an inexhaustible mine of suggestion." - Process and Reality, The Free Press (1978), p.39.
Wish I'd said that!
"The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato. I do not mean the systematic scheme of thought which scholars have doubtfully extracted from his writings. I allude to the wealth of general ideas scattered through them. His personal endowments, his wide opportunities for experience at a great period of civilization, his inheritance of an intellectual tradition not yet stiffened by excessive systematization, have made his writings an inexhaustible mine of suggestion." - Process and Reality, The Free Press (1978), p.39.
Wish I'd said that!
33Garp83
I especially love "his inheritance of an intellectual tradition not yet stiffened by excessive systematization"
34anthonywillard
Right on.
35Makifat
Why am I reminded of the motto for Stiff Records?
"If it ain't Stiff, it ain't worth a ....."
"If it ain't Stiff, it ain't worth a ....."
37anthonywillard
"Systematization . . ." Is that what they called it in those days? I know my grandmother was wont to use some peculiar circumlocutions and euphemisms, but "systematization" is really pushing the envelope. So to speak.
