W. K. C. Guthrie (1906–1981)

Does a very good job of establishing the easily forgotten difference and remoteness of the ancient Greek cultural and intellectual background. Also a good synopsis of the Pre-Socratics and their concerns, putting Socrates, Plato and Aristotle in appropriate context, plus a good explanation of key Greek terms and concepts. Some of these can’t really be translated directly, so this is pretty valuable. Guthrie knows his subject well and packs a lot into 175 pages. It’s also an easy and pleasant read.… (more)

I am an untrained, untaught person who is mildly interested in philosophy, or at least the origins of such thinking. For the most part I have always thought it a lot of impractical nonsense. Until I read this book. Guthrie begins from the beginning and explains in such a way that even I am now interested. I was afraid this would be a slog, but at times it was difficult to put down. I won't claim to have understood it all perfectly, but I can say that it gave me a new appreciation for philosophy in so much as that I now am curious to read about how it developed in other cultures around the world.… (more)

48. Orpheus and Greek Religion : A Study of the Orphic Movement by W. K. C. Guthrie
with an introduction by Larry J. Alderink (1993)
Published: 1935, revised 1952
format: 326 page hardcover
acquired: from library
read: Jul 24 - Aug 4
rating: 4 stars

This book was difficult for me, and I'm left wondering how much I got out of it, and of what use any of it was. As I understand Orphism was a religion and a philosophy of life that is basically lost to history. We think it led to an ascetic life for its most devout followers. We think it has core texts that are now lost. (although the Derveni papyrus, found after this book, appears to be one of these texts.) We think it influenced Pythagoras and his followers to a great degree, and we think we see its influence in many other places. Aeschylus and Euripides refer to it both directly and discretely. Aristophanes makes fun of it, discretely. Plato criticizes it heavily, but also has a strongly mystical side that seems to have been heavily influence by Orphism, in striking ways, although never directly acknowledged. He is Guthrie's main evidence of the the significance of Orphism. And the short section on Plato is the most fascinating and most moving in the book. And, finally, we know the Neoplatonists of the Roman era found Orphism very signifcant...but we don't know how much their Orphism had anything to do with the 6th-century Orphism that would lead to Pythagoras and Plato.

"Having taken the plunge into this dark and torturous labyrinth, what thread are we going to catch hold of in order to make our way back to where there is at least a patch daylight on which we can fix our eyes amid the surrounding gloom?"

Orpheus, was, of course, the musician whose lyre charmed the underworld and who almost got his dead bride, Eurydice, back. He was much more than this, though, and the Eurdice story is much younger than other Orphic stories. In Thrace he had given up women (although the homosexual element is only implied. He was asexual) and lured the men to him with his music. Thracian women in a jealous Dionysian frenzy tore him apart...and yet his dismembered head continued to sing.

The full details of the religion had a lot of oddball characteristics, and had its own cosmologies, inconsistent among themselves. These were inconsistent with Hesiod and Homer, but still had many parallels with them, and with other eastern mythologies. Despite the above, Ophism was closely associated with Dionysos/Bacchal worship, and is historically viewed as a civilizing force on these worshippers. It's worth a moment to consider where this comes from. Here is Guthrie's take on the common impression of the festival worshiping Dionysos - the Bacchante:

"The worshippers trail dancing over the mountains, using various means to induce in themselves the condition desired, namely 'madness ' or ecstasy. They utter loud cries, they make music with flutes and cymbals. Arrived at the culminating pitch of frenzy, they tear and eat raw an animal victim. Dionysos appeared to them in the form of a bull. The ultimate aim was union with the god, by the attachment of ecstasy and the sacred meal to become oneself a Bakchos. "

Looking at my notes, which are actually brief, I was surprised to find that the boring introduction by Larry J. Alderink was the clearest part for me of the whole book. From there I get some apt summaries:

"Viewing Orphism as a reform of Dionysiac energy in the direction of Apllonian sanity allows us to focus on the two deities who are polar opposites yet mutually attracting in Orphism. "

...

"On Guthrie's interpretation, Orphic writers sifted through popular religious attitudes to organize their own set of beliefs, at the center of which was the myth of the dismemberment of Dionysos by the Titans, the revenge Zeus took by striking the Titans with lightning, and finally the birth of human beings from the smoldering ashes. Eschatological doctrines could easily be derived from such a myth: human nature, derived from Titanic actions, is evil, but escape from an evil present is possible through proper ritual practices and a strenuous ascetic life. "

It seems Orphism was an oddball in Greek religious life that was hard to reconcile for most Greeks. Its ideas of original corruptness and a striving for a better afterlife have some striking parallels with Christianity.

As for Guthrie himself, reading him was interesting in many ways. First, although he is difficult (partially because of the topic), he has a charm that is hard to find these days. One can imagine the text as a lecture given by a well spoken expert. Also, his writing is early enough that he has to deal with a lot of proof of the basics, the kind of stuff that just gets put into citations in modern books. So, he does a lot of the fundamental reasoning of the facts of his day, often tearing apart his predecessors. And, what comes out of that is a really nice methodology of working with limited facts and constructing from it an argument of great value than those source elements. I can't say I recommend him or this dated book to a reader who is just a bit curious on Orphism, but it is nice to know it was there and served a part of the making of our historical reconstruction.

2016
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