Mormonism and Mental Retardation (A Twilight Review)

It's been suggested that, rather than allowing review comments, people who want to discuss a particular review should just start a Talk thread about it. So I thought I'd give it a try.

In a recent Twilight review, it was suggested that didacticism in YA literature deservedly died out in the sixties, and that Stephenie Meyer is therefore insane or mentally retarded for attempting to teach Mormon godliness in Twilight.

This left me with a lot of questions: Was didacticism really dead? (A lot of the award-winning-type children's books of the past 20 years have given me cause to think otherwise.) Is there really no place for teaching children lessons via books? Is it the entire concept of didacticism that's bad, or is it teaching Mormon godliness in particular that's considered a sign of mental retardation? Is Twilight even a didactic novel, really? (I seem to remember the main focus of the series being Bella's struggle to get sex from her old-fashioned boyfriend who wanted to wait until after marriage--what is the lesson here?) Or is this just a case of an author naturally inserting her values into her work without a deliberate attempt to influence the children's "malleable minds"?

ETA: Twilight touchstone!

Let me begin by stating that I haven't read any of the "Twilight" books, and I probably never will. So I really can't comment on the specific case.

But no, I don't think didacticism ever died. And I'm not convinced it should. We do after all still need to bring up our kids. I am however glad that I haven't seen old school didacticism in many years - ack, did I get to read some awful stuff in the early 60s. I am glad that it got subtler since then.

So, the "Book of Mormon"? From my point of view that's definitely not something I would like to expose any of my kids to. But to each his / her own. Just one more reason for me not to engage in her writing.

I'm certainly not the type to enjoy books that attempt to preach any type of religion and never noticed any sort of overwhelming preachiness about Twilight.

However, I do think writers are obviously influenced by their own beliefs. I think that any sort of Mormonish overtones were more of a subconscious thought process on Meyers part than any deliberate attempt to dictate religion to teens.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I wouldn't take this review as gospel of the author's intensions. My view is that Twilight was written to entertain, an ideal that has been realized by the many teens and adults who love the book(s).

While questioning assumptions, it might also be worthwhile to question the assumption of some large group of popular right-wing didactic young adult literature between WWII and the birth of the genre in the mid-60s. As a kid growing up in the 70s and 80s, I at least wasn't aware of such a creature. There was plenty to read that either challenged or tweaked the status quo, and not all of it written after 1967.

It seems more like a rant than a review. Not very well thought out. But I get it. He doesn't like nice people.

I don't want to join the discussion, but I'll just clarify one or two things:

-You're taking a few comments a little too seriously: sometimes I'm just being snarky.

-Yes, I'm referring to 'old school didacticism.'

-I hint thru the comment on Reaganomics that the '80s for the most part tried to strangle the AL scene and reintroduce 'o.s.d.'

-The last poster is right, my review is terrible and not thought out at all. I overloaded on way too much information to process and KERPLATT--couldn't organize it w/i a short period of time, basically Stephen King'd it.

I've enjoyed reading the books, and didn't notice anything Mormonic. Could you give me some examples of "Mormon godliness" or "Mormon overtones" in the series?

I don't know that much about Mormons, but i remember reading an amusing article written by a Mormon, the link to which I have unfortunately lost. Some of the themes were:
- the man (Edward) being in charge, initiating action. The woman is submissive.
- family values: Bella isn't big on this but Edward has his weird vampire family. There was a funny mention of why he drives a Volvo - not because it's cool but because the whole family fits in it.
- abstinence

Not so different from other religions, but if you google 'mormon' and 'Twilight' there are quite a few results. The first is this article : http://writetools.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/twilight-preaches-mormonism/
Should be helpful :)

Edit: Ah, found the funny one: http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html

very interesting... I haven't read Twilight yet (it's in my pile though because I have to know what the fuss is about) but this is the first I've ever heard of it having Mormon overtones. Oddly enough, it makes me more interested in reading it because I always like to see how someone winds religion into typically non-religious topics (God and vampires in the same thoughts?)

Though I have to agree that abstinence, women being submissive and wanting your whole family to fit into one vehicle don't strike me as particularly specific to Mormonism...

No, those aren't specifically Morman things, but the articles I gave links to explain it far better than I can.
After reading them, I see there are other, more significant points:
- Mormons believe in deification (via rituals), and the vamps are so powerful they're like gods on earth.
- The Cullens are also 'higher beings' though - they're not as savage as normal vamps, and they go to school, study, etc. in accordance with 'eternal progression' - Mormans believe even gods and goddesses can progress.
- 'Family values' is a lot more complex than buying a Volvo - the Cullens make their own family because it's so important, and there's something about a 'sealing ceremony' that binds a couple and their chrildren together as an eternal family.
- Edward is the perfect Mormon boy - so beautiful he's irresistible. And he's white, like all righteous people are, in the Mormon faith apparently.
- Mormons don't believe in virgin birth, believing instead that God physically impregnated Mary. Edward, as the god-figure, impregnates Bella in the 4th book.
- Having kids is essential - you can't become immortal/complete without them. Hence the whole Renesme thing and Rosalie's jealousy about not being able to have kids.

There's more, I'm just skimming (bloody work), but it's pretty interesting. I wonder how much of this was intentional, if any?

WHAT! that makes Twilight seem even more tempting now that it appears there is more to it than teen angst! (the only thing I know about the book is that teen girls love it, and many people here on LT... not so much!) Now I have to move Twilight up my list...

Makes me wonder too - I just finished the 19th Wife and now I wonder if I missed some nuances because of my lack of familiarity with Mormonism (or its offshoots in this case).

Hmm, that makes it sound more profound than it is, and if anything it makes the novel worse. There's definitely more than teen angst though - plenty of sexism, dysfunctional sexuality, symptoms of domestic abuse passed off as romance....

But regardless of all that, I can't understand why people liked it because it's really, really boring. Over 200-pages of whining and drooling by the most annoying narrator EVER. I can't see anything attractive about Edward either (arrogant bastard who looks and feels like a corpse), but it seems I'm one of very few women who don't.

haha!

well, I'll post my feelings about it once I've read it...

Cool, will look out for it :)

It's the worst book I've ever read, but at least it's led to some interesting discussions.

Thanks. Frankly, this sounds to me like The Two Babylons rewritten for Twilght.

The man (Edward) being in charge, initiating action. The woman is submissive.

Bella is rather stubborn for a submissive wife. And Alice is very emancipated.

Mormons believe in deification (via rituals), and the vamps are so powerful they're like gods on earth.

Mormons do spread their version of the Good News, whereas the vampires do everything to hide it. Edward even fears that he is damned because he is a vampire.

The Cullens are also 'higher beings' though - they're not as savage as normal vamps, and they go to school, study, etc. in accordance with 'eternal progression' - Mormans believe even gods and goddesses can progress.

These vampires do not progress, they repeat high school over and over again. :-)

'Family values' is a lot more complex than buying a Volvo - the Cullens make their own family because it's so important, and there's something about a 'sealing ceremony' that binds a couple and their chrildren together as an eternal family.

Family is also very important to most Christian churches, and even to some people who do not belong to a church (like the Cullens).

Edward is the perfect Mormon boy - so beautiful he's irresistible. And he's white, like all righteous people are, in the Mormon faith apparently.

Jacob, the future son-in-law, is not white, he is American Indian.

Mormons don't believe in virgin birth, believing instead that God physically impregnated Mary. Edward, as the god-figure, impregnates Bella in the 4th book.

Do Mormons believe that Mary became pregnant without God's knowledge or intent?

My wife and I, we have 4 children without any virgin birth. We are still Christians, though.

Having kids is essential - you can't become immortal/complete without them. Hence the whole Renesme thing and Rosalie's jealousy about not being able to have kids.

Having kids is a real problem nowadays. There are many couples who desperately try to have kids, without success. One of my sisters-in-law could not see our newborn children without sadly thinking of her own childlessness.

8 / crazybatcow: (God and vampires in the same thoughts?)

There seems to be an evangelical vampire series: Field of Blood by Eric Wilson.

Never knew about this Mormon angle. Just thought they were a God-awful crapulous waste of paper (that I am mercifully almost done with).

Just thought they were a God-awful crapulous waste of paper (that I am mercifully almost done with).

I have seen this sort of sentence over and over when adults talk about reading Twilight. What's your reason for reading it? I can understand when people want to read it in order to talk to children or younger siblings about it. What I can't understand are the multitude of adults who say, after reading Twilight, "Yeccch! What an awful book! I'm certainly not looking forward to reading the next book!" Then, after finishing the last book in the series, they say what an awful experience it was and how glad they are that it's over. Why did they just read the whole series, then?

Fair enough question and one I can hardly argue with.
For myself, I read the first book a year ago - I'm a sucker for good cover art and that apple in the hand with black background was a real eye-catcher for me. Anyway - I hated it. But now my friends have discovered this series and, loving it as they did, they proceeded to lobby me big time to finish the dang thing. So, knowing how very like rabid dogs they can be when they get set on something, I caved. That's it in a nutshell. I am ashamed of my weakness, but it's done. (Dear Bella, I believe, would have done pretty much the same thing. Realizing this, I feel ashamed all over again.)

> 16: Yes, I agree you have a point there. Why, if you think it's that awful, do you persist in reading an entire series?

As much as the writing wasn't good and some aspects of the story were disturbing, Meyer has gifts as a storyteller. Her story was definitely compelling. Part of it is my penchant for completion, but I felt I had to know what happened to the characters, even when I half-hated them. Of course, I don't hate them to the 'God-awful crapulous waste of paper' point, if I did I probably wouldn't have finished the story. It was sort of like eating something terrible for me. I enjoyed it for the most part, but then started feeling sick, but there was just a little more left and I couldn't very well let it go to waste, could I? So I finished the whole thing then promptly wanted to give up on reading for weeks because by the end I felt terrible.

I haven't read Twilight, but I have read things that were so awful I kept on reading to see if they could possibly get any worse. Must be morbid fascination.