Sibyx's Farewell to August, Hello to September

I had hoped to last out the month on the 'summer' thread, but alas.

Updated September 4.

Currently Reading (Latest book first)
Joanna Russ The Zanzibar Cat sf ss
Robin Lane Fox Pagans and Christians
-with Roni. I'm courageously putting this back on the list!
Gary Soto Human Nature Poems
-So far these are excellent
David Foster Wallace A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again Essays.
-I don't know why this is still here, I'm not really reading it... sigh.

Audiobook: Robert Pirsig Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
- A reread

September
89. Cathleen Schine The Three Weissman's of Westport ***1/2 F
88. Octavia Butler Parable of the Sower sf/dystopic ****1/2
87. Carlos Baker Emerson Among the Eccentrics bio ****
86. Thomas King Green Grass, Running,Water F ****
85. David Mitchell The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet ****1/2 F
84. The New Yorker: Month of June
83. Tana French Faithful Place mys ****1/2

Best of August
Grace Dane Mazur Hinges: Meditations on the Portals of the Imagination NF *****
Hilary Mantel Wolf Hall *****
Runner Up Kate Atkinson When Will There Be Good News?

Best of July
Mark Halliday Keep This Forever Poetry *****
Brenda Wineapple White Heat Bio *****
Ian McDonald The Dervish House SF ****1/2

Best of June
No best NF
F a) Abraham Verghese Cutting for Stone *****
Brian Aldiss The Helliconia Trilogy sf ****1/2

Best of May
NF Daniel Richard Stoddard, Memoirs Unpublished recollection of growing up in Vermont. *****
F Thomas Hardy Far From the Madding Crowd F *****!!

Best of April
NF Baron Wormser The Road Washes Out in Spring ****1/2
F David Mitchell Cloud Atlas F *****

Best of March
NF William Kamkwamba The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind *****
F John Cowper Powys A Glastonbury Romance *****

Best of February
Fiction Helen Humphreys The Frozen Thames F *****
Non-F Emma Larkin, Finding George Orwell in Burma ****1/2 NF, travel

Best of January
Fiction Helen Humphreys The Lost Garden ****1/2
Non F David Grann The Lost City of Z*****

AUGUST
82. Josephine Tey The Man in the Queue mys ***1/2
81 4 New Yorkers May 2011
80. Anne Enright The Forgotten Waltz F ****1/2
79. Grace Dane Mazur Hinges: Meditations on the Portals of the Imagination NF *****
78. Audiobook: Craig Ferguson American on Purpose memoir ****
77. 4 New Yorkers* April (*one conveniently lost 50% read...)
76. Boyd Morrison The Ark thriller **1/2
75. Hilary Mantel Wolf Hall ***** HIP HIP HOORAY
74. Kate Atkinson When Will There Be Good News? Mys ****1/2
73. 4 New Yorkers (not read cover to cover, mind you!) March 2011
72. Aimee Nezhukumatathil Lucky Fish poetry ****
71. Kim Stanley Robinson Blue Mars SF ****1/2

August Summary
In some ways my months was defined by the ambitious goal of reading a month of NYers per week. I did get close to achieving it -- missed by two issues, so I'm quite pleased. Two five star books get pride of place, one non-fiction, Hinges by Grace Dane Mazur because it is a book smack-dab in the middle of the kind of inquiry I love and the Hilary Mantel because even though historical fiction is not my first choice, I am pretty well gob-smacked by how remarkable a book this is. It is 'sticking' in my head which means something! Less SF, which is a good thing, I think, to give it a little rest, a couple of mysteries, a contemporary novel and some poetry and a memoir. Only one stupid book which I pretended to read.... but really I skimmed. Finally I do have to mention that a runner-up for the month would be the Kate Atkinson -- as Founding president of the Jackson Brodie Fan Club I am nothing if not loyal!

(I'm leaving this here for my own benefit)
July Summary
I'll probably have to come back and edit this, but off the top of my head.....I've continued the heavy SF theme with the Mars Trilogy (which I haven't quite finished) and the McDonald. Add to that a fantasy book, the Orson Scott Card and the slightly fantastic London Calling and you have five out of nine reads in the speculative genre. The bio of Emily Dickinson and her friend Higginson was the only 'serious' read of the month besides the poetry. Three out of nine were audiobooks, which tells you I am still driving around a lot even though I had hoped not to be over the summer! Two of the nine were poetry books -- I read them while my very slow internet loads; it works well. And finally, one mystery, the second Flavia DeLuce. I see there is a third one out, but I will wait for the audiobook as the reader is sublime and perfect. All in all very summery fare. As it should be!

January

1. Kevin J. Anderson Hidden Empire first of seven, space opera (science-lite), enjoyable ***1/2
2. Christopher Isherwood The World in the Evening F ****
3. Mary Ann Shaffer The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society F, ww2, recommended ***3/4
4. Patrick Marnham Wild Mary: A Life of Mary Wesley ****
5. Charles Stross Toast sf/short stories ****
6. David Grann The Lost City of Z adventure *****
7. Helen Humphries The Lost Garden contemp fiction ****1/2
8. Kevin J. Anderson A Forest of Stars space opera ***1/2
9. Jeremy Bernstein Quantum Leaps Science ****
10. Alain de Botton A Week at the Airport NF travel ***3/4
11. Kevin J. Anderson Horizon Storms #3 7 Suns.... space opera ***1/2

February
12. Laura Talbot The Gentlewomen for Virago week F ****
13. Kevin J. Anderson Scattered Suns Book IV Seven Suns Saga - sp/op ***1/2 Defiantly I continue to enjoy this series!
14. Jamie Ford The Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet **** Contemp F.
15. R.F. Treharne The Glastonbury Legends in tandem w/ A Glastonbury Romance, background ****
16. Emma Larkin Finding George Orwell in Burma Memoir ****1/2
17. Suzette Haden Elgin Native Tongue sf ***
18. Kevin J. Anderson Of Fire and Night Book 5 (of 7) sp/op ***1/2
19. Kevin J. Anderson Metal Swarm Book 6 (of 7) Saga of Seven Suns. sp/op *** 1/2
20. Helen Humphreys The Frozen Thames F *****
21. Kevin J. Anderson The Ashes of Worlds Book 7 (of 7) of the Saga of Seven Suns sp/op ***1/2
22. Jon McGregor So Many Ways to Begin ER F ****

March
23. William Kamkwamba The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind NF ***** Stars are for the achievement of this inspiring young man.
24. Diane Glancy Stoneheart F ****
25. John A. Greed Glastonbury Tales
26. John Cowper Powys A Glastonbury Romance F *****
27. Ursula LeGuin Always Coming Home SF ***1/2
28. Champlain's Dream David Hackett Fischer *****
A MUST READ to learn about the settling of our neighbor, Canada
29. Brian Aldiss Helliconia Spring SF ****
30. Margaret Atwood Oryx and Crake SF *****
31. Outliers Malcolm Gladwell NF **** (audiobook)
abandoned in March : Stephen R. Donaldson The Mirror of her Dreams * 1/2 fantasy, yawn.

April
32. David Mitchell Cloud Atlas F *****
33. Marge Piercy Woman on the Edge of Time. SF ***
34. Baron Wormser, The Road Washes Out in Spring: a poet's memoir of living off the grid NF ****1/2
35. Kate Pullinger The Mistress of Nothing F (Audiobook) ****
36. Meg Wolitzer Uncoupling F ***1/2
37. Margaret Atwood The Year of the Flood Dystopic ****1/2
38. Francine ProseReading Like a Writer ***** Dangerous reading list!
39. Brian Aldiss Helliconia Summer SF Book 2 of 3. ****
40. Lois McMaster Bujold Cryoburn ***1/2 SF

May
40. Audiobook: Norman Phillips John Lennon: The Life Bio ***1/2
41. Joanna Russ The Female Man SF **** review to come
42. Sharon Creech Love That Dog J poem/novel ****
43. Kazim Ali, Fasting for Ramadan : Personal Meditation ****
44. Karen Russell Swamplandia **** plus. F
45. Anne Tyler Noah's Compass ***1/2 F
46. Harriet Beecher Stowe, Oldtown Folks F ***** A classic portrait of late 18th New England
47. Robin Hobb The Inheritance and Other Stories Fantasy-SS (ER) ****
48. Daniel Richard Stoddard, Memoirs Unpublished recollection of growing up in Vermont. *****
49. Thomas Hardy Far From the Madding Crowd F *****!!
50. Joan Slonczewski A Door Into Ocean SF ***
51. Jennifer Egan A Visit From the Goon Squad F ****1/2

June
61. Brian Aldiss Helliconia Winter SF ****1/2
60. Josephine Tey A Shilling for Candles Mys ****1/2
59. Tommy Hays In the Family Way F ****
58. Justina Robson Natural History SF ****
57. audiobook Alan Bradley The Sweetness at the Bottom of the Pie Mys ****
56. Nancy Mitford The Water Beetle Essays ***1/2
55. Arthur Machen The Three Impostors Fantasy classic ****1/2
54. Abraham Verghese Cutting For Stone F *****
53. audiobook M.C. Beaton Death of a Gentle Lady Mys **3/4
52. Elizabeth Moon Remnant Population SF ****1/2

July
70. Audiobook Orson Scott Card The Lost Gate ***1/2
69. Kim Stanley Robinson Green Mars Book 2 of 3 ****1/2
68. Kim Stanley Robinson Red Mars SF ****1/2
67. Mark Halliday Keep This Forever Poetry *****
66. Brenda Wineapple White Heat Bio *****
65. audiobook Alan Bradley The Weed that Strings the Hangman's Bag Mys ****
64. Natasha Trethewey Native Guard Poetry ****1/2
63. Ian McDonald The Dervish House SF ****1/2
62. audiobook#2 Edward Bloor London Calling F/slight relig. bent ***

August
82. Josephine Tey The Man in the Queue mys ***1/2
81 4 New Yorkers May 2011
80. Anne Enright The Forgotten Waltz F ****1/2
79. Grace Dane Mazur Hinges: Meditations on the Portals of the Imagination NF *****
78. Audiobook: Craig Ferguson American on Purpose memoir ****
77. 4 New Yorkers* April (*one conveniently lost 50% read...)
76. Boyd Morrison The Ark thriller **1/2
75. Hilary Mantel Wolf Hall ***** HIP HIP HOORAY
74. Kate Atkinson When Will There Be Good News? Mys ****1/2
73. 4 New Yorkers (not read cover to cover, mind you!) March 2011
72. Aimee Nezhukumatathil Lucky Fish poetry ****
71. Kim Stanley Robinson Blue Mars SF ****1/2

Gosh, I'm first on your new thread! Look forward to what's coming next...

Me too!

Me three.

me four

Another gratuitous post so you show up in the Talk list that I look at most often...

Lucy, how is American on purpose? I'm getting ready for a road trip and selecting audiobooks - would this be a good choice to keep me awake & entertained?

Me seven!

Ardene - I've held off saying anything about the Ferguson until I finish. Let me admit I never stay up past 10:30 anymore so I knew nothing about him I had 'heard somewhere' that it was funny -- so I thought it would be funny -- but it's really a book about growing up -- a tough Glasgow childhood (good parents though), a rough (but not unfun or unproductive) growing up time where he succumbed to drugs and booze, then getting off those things, getting his life in order, emigrating for good, getting a foothold in LA etc. I had an aha! moment that I did know who he was because I did occasionally watch the Drew Carey show back when we had tv (it's been awhile) and he was the awful English boss -- but basically -- I expected something else, who knows what! For what it is, essentially a show-biz memoir, I think it's pretty decent. And the accent is lovely, I do hardly care what he is saying, I admit it!

Most recently I was highly entertained by the mysteries by David Bradley starring the precocious Flavia De Luce -- I should make a category of my best audio reads.....hmmmmm.

I'm huffing and puffing and I'm finally caught up with you - whew! :)

Now sit down, put your feet up and have a nice cup of tea.....

I have finished Wolf Hall - and the fact is I am impressed -- it is such a fully imagined piece of fiction and I suspect deeply researched, deeply felt, lovingly done. I'm not drawn to historical fiction so for me to stay with a 600 pager means a lot. To a loving reader of the genre this is undoubtedly a five-star book, for me it must remain, alas, 4 1/2 due to my own deficiencies. Certainly I have come away with an altered view of the events leading up to Henry VIII assuming control over the church in Great Britain -- more emphasis put on the Pope's refusal to grant the annulment than Henry as a greedy s.o.b. who just wanted all that booty in the monasteries using the marital issue as a lever. The more I think about it, the more remarkable the book does seem to me. Cromwell's brilliance and agility, what pressures do to an essentially decent man who must have an heir, or fail in all ways...... the portrait of Henry VIII is convincing. I'll probably come back and give it a five......

I plan to pick up a short novel, The Forgotten Waltz by Anne Enright which I got for my birthday and Becky and I will be reading Emerson Among the Eccentrics by Carlos Baker together. The link is here .

Ha! Just saw you on some one else's thread - maybe Valerie/ Joleries - letting her know that you have annointed me President of the Jackson Brodie Fan Club - and I'd like to let you know that I've made another convert - Lit Chich - or Nancy has read Case Histories and gve it 4 stars and has come aboard the JBFC.

Hi Lucy, I've also just been reading through some threads and have thoroughly enjoyed your posts - laughing out loud at your Atkinson/Brodie comments! You are too much!

I didn't know Craig Ferguson had a book. I also am never up late enough to watch him on tellie, but I did hear him speak once about his alcoholism, getting through that and coming out the other side, etc. I would venture to say he's an interesting person - about as real as it gets, particularly in LA and in the business he's in.

I am glad to see that you enjoyed Wolf Hall, Lucy! Congratulations on finishing it.

So glad you enjoyed Wolf Hall! Yes, Henry evolved into a absolute tyrant, and was never a really nice guy, but it wasn't greed that motivated him. He was very devout, and was eager to dress up his twin desires -- for Anne Boleyn and for a male heir -- in religious clothing. And what can't be exaggerated is how recently England had been torn apart by struggles over the crown. Nearly a century before Henry was born, Richard II was dethroned by his cousin, Henry of Lancaster. Even those who were glad to see a strong monarch weren't always convinced his claim was strongest. Move forward another few decades, and you have the civil war now known as the Wars of the Roses, which only ended when Henry VIII's father emerged as -- literally -- the last man standing, and one with a rather weak claim to the throne (through the female line on one side, and through two bastard lines elsewhere.) So when Henry VIII inherited, with only two sisters, a male heir was seen as the only thing that would preserve the Tudor dynasty.

The element of Wolf Hall that I really liked was the way that Mantel presented the conflict between pre-Tudor England, dominated by the nobility, and the new men of the Tudor era who rose to powerful positions that once would only have been held by aristocrats. The Tudors did that deliberately, because they know the latter would be the focus of any challenges to their rule. Hence figures like Wolsey (a butcher's son), Sir Thomas More, Cromwell, and many others. Elizabeth continued this, rewarding landed gentry and awarding great power to people like Cecil and Walsingham -- and executing her cousin, the duke of Norfolk, for treason.

Yes, well done on finishing Wolf Hall and I'm so glad you enjoyed it despite it being outside your normal reading genres. 4.5 or 5 stars - either way, it's a good book!

I agree with Suz about the interesting focus on the rise of the 'new men' - the disdain and incomprehension of the nobles at the rise of such men as Cromwell was very pointed: "Who are these people who are taking over our world?". It seemed to me to be linked with the new idea of power through control of information rather than through birth or heredity. One thing that intrigued me and I've been meaning to follow up, was Cromwell's fascination with that invention (which I seem to remember he tried to examine when in Calais?) of some kind of elaborate storage device for information which had an almost magical sound to it (or altertatively sounds like a very proto-computer) but was presumably some kind of very efficient filing system. It made perfect sense that Cromwell would be interested in it - what I'm not sure was whether such a thing actually existed, or was rumoured to exist, or whether Mantel invented the whole thing.

I'm so glad you enjoyed Wolf Hall, Lucy! great discussion here, too.

Congrats on finishing Wolf Hall! I love when that happens, i.e., reading outside usual preferences and ultimately loving it! It all sounds v interesting, but the English history bug has not bitten me yet. Too complicated and political for me. ;-)

Glad you enjoyed Wolf Hall Lucy. It's one I plan to reread and I'm eagerly anticipating her sequel.

Suz and Genny - yes indeed, the rise of the 'new men' -- and another piece that was intriguingly laid out was the conflict over the English Language Bible -- that was so well done -- Most people recognize that it is a good thing or at least an inevitable thing, all but a few of the hopeless 'old boys'

I'm glad you mentioned the proto-computerish thing -- I'm going to go scope that out right now, Guido somebody or other.

I am back with this link to Giordano Bruno and his 'mnemonic device' -- come to think of it, Cromwell mentions and uses some system he learned in Italy -- this might be it. It isn't at all the way a computer works, although by breaking things down into smaller units and connecting them with images, it is a kind of simplification that could lead to further simplification which could lead eventually to the 0-1 concept of storing information???? Maybe this Guido is a cohort of Bruno's? The other point being that there was intellectual 'ferment' breaking out all over, and men like Cromwell 'got it'. Anyhow here is the link: HERE

I loved Cromwell's tenderness-- but I also wondered what the historical basis for that is?

The JBFC ! -- This is a movement!

Driving the little darling to a 'farewell to summer' party I polished off the Craig Ferguson. In the end, I have to say, for what it is, it's very good. There is nothing 'comical' about the story, but Ferguson is a good storyteller and he gives what feels like an authentic and balanced view of himself, the good the bad and the ugly. In fact, I'm impressed enough to wish I was able to stay up that late and had tv so I could check him out. On the other hand celebrities interviewing celebrities, there is something so disturbing about that, I probably couldn't stomach it, no matter how affable and naturally funny a man he is. As another reviewer said of him, he sounds genuine -- and I don't think it's just the accent turning my head. But it is the memoir story of the talented person who almost tanks due to being such an ambitious dude he can't stand himself, does too many drugs, drinks etc. but in the end pulls himself out of it and is, of course, a HUGE success. **** because it was never tedious. I should add -- I seem to listen to many kinds of books that I would never read -- this would be in that category for certain.

The Wolf Hall discussion has been fascinating. That's one I'm definitely going to read, although I'll probably save it until my AmLit phase is finished.

Just so you all know what a nutcase I really am, I lay in bed this morning furiously debating whether I should boost Wolf Hall to five stars. This is what happens when you get a night to yourself, no one but you in the house??? Well. Anyhow. I decided that the book itself is a five star book and that the 1/2 off because I don't love and adore historical fiction was petty. One thing about it, the book is opening up in my mind like.... hm..... well, something that expands when in contact with air or water ..... growing in my mind as I think about it.

I finished another book that I gobbled up yesterday while luxuriating being by myself. We have a pond with a little pebble beach and chairs, and I sat out there w/crackers and cheese and read while the sun was setting, it was INTENSELY good and restorative and I wish I could have shared it with all of you. (Except of course, then we would have all been talking....). In any event, this book is called Hinges: Meditations on the Portals of the Imagination by Grace Dane Mazur and I loved it. But -- I must explain -- I have a couple of obsessions and I have read extensively in the field of archetypal psychology, mythology, and various related topics..... and this field -- which edges on semiotics but approaches it not as a 'science' but as..... well.... I don't know quite what.... just as what it is..... an integral part of how the human mind makes sense of experience. And... I just like muddling about in what words mean, what certain images mean, how mythological archetypes creep into everything we say and think and do..... I can spend HOURS reading the OED. Ok, so, Grace fastened on 'the hinge' as this seemingly innocuous little detail in a lot of artwork, and she brings to light all kinds of insights -- the creaking noise that hinges make warning the reader or play or movie-goer that you will be 'entering' a world where nothing is 'normal' -- the 'land of the dead' -- of Orpheus and Eurydice, Persephone and Hades, of Jesus "harrowing" hell, and also of the place where artists must go -- leaving the safe and familiar -- It's a lovely book, very emotionally grounded, very humble and not academic, with some personal anecdotes scattered about. It's a quirky book and not for everyone and not earth-shattering or anything. It's the kind of book though, that gets me excited about writing, so I will keep it on my shelf of inspiring and inspired books.

Oh, sounds like you had a wonderful day there by yourself Lucy. Good on you!

I love the cheery flowers of your new profile pic.

Just so you all know what a nutcase I really am, I lay in bed this morning furiously debating whether I should boost Wolf Hall to five stars ... aha, thank you, Lucy! It's not only me then, hehe. Good to know one is not alone ...

25: Heh. This is why I haven't gotten into the star rating business. I appreciate when others do, it's nice to see stars at the end of a long review for a quick assessment, but I can imagine devising a system, then revising and restarring for the sake of consistency... So I will happily take advantage of other people's nutcasiness and free my own nutcasiness for other things.

Hinges is not a book I'm likely to read, but I read your thread for exactly this sort of thoughtful evocative review.

I am with you on the worrying about star ratings and wanting to revise them sometimes after the initial decision. It's generally a sign of a really good book to find you are still thinking about it and finding new things in it some time after you have finished. And I share some of that love of reflecting on the meanings of words and their resonances and associated images - so I'd have happily shared that time reading about Hinges! And with your fascination with how mythological archetypes creep into everything we say and think and do I can see why John Cowper Powys' writing works for you!

I'm glad that you enjoyed Wolf Hall, Lucy; it's one of the top 10 novels I've read in the past 10 years. And thanks for mentioning the book, as I promised to lend it to my group's new practice manager this coming week.

What a lovely day you had! I think that *Hinges* would work for me too, but I wonder whether I'm too lazy to hunt it up. I know! I'll put it on my wish list at PBS!!!

Lucy, you are too funny sometimes. Your brain is on overdrive most of the time methinks.

Your solitary experience sounds lovely - and I do think I will be looking for Hinges myself. I just love reading any ol' thing you write. Any closer to publishing?

I do have a problem with 5 star rating. 5 is not enough of a discriminating range. So, I just rate the books as I feel they have impacted me. Yes, many times I ponder longer and think I should change the rating - or I compare one 4 star rating to another wondering are these two books in the same star category? There are just so many different reasons why I feel impacted by a book and there is no comparison possible. But 5 stars is all we really have, no matter how thin you slice it with decimals. So, we work with it!

Oh Claudia, thank you. Overdrive is a kind word for it. Not any closer, no, all my own fault.

Well, the 5 star system is indeed tricky, gets trickier all the time. The problem is that there are two kinds really -- the 5 star because I loved it, regardless of merit, and then the 5 Star because the book itself is special, regardless of me.

Of course, Hinges immediately made me think of Always Coming Home and how the villages were laid out, which was metaphor for how they were used.

Oh yes, good insight!

The problem is that there are two kinds really -- the 5 star because I loved it, regardless of merit, and then the 5 Star because the book itself is special, regardless of me. Exactly! Well said, Lucy - thank you for that.

I went and checked my rating system on my profile and it says the same thing more wordily, so at least I'm consistent!!!

I think I probably copied my 5-star rating criteria from you, Sib. I just rated the Flannery O'Connor letters book as a 5-star, and I think I said something like, "not because it's a perfect book, but because I enjoyed it so much."

Hinges does sound interesting. Seems like you are the only person on LT to have read or reviewed it. Is it brand new?

It is brand new -- I met the author recently which is why I know anything about it, otherwise, I am sure it would have gotten by me as well, although I do read Parabola faithfully and it is the sort of book they are likely to pick up and review.

Lucy, thanks for the comments on American on purpose - i think I'm going to pass on that one, but I am going to try Wolf Hall on audio instead. I've been wanting to read it for awhile, so I hope the reader is good.

Hinges sounds fascinating - I love making connections with word and etymologies.

Lots of interesting stuff here as always Lucy.
After all your debating about Wolf Hall I feel positively mean in only giving it 3.5 stars. My problem with it can be boiled down to one question; why? Why did Cromwell act as he did? For example, he was clearly sympathetic to the religious reformers, often putting himself at great risk to help them, yet in many other ways he was the most unsentimental and practical of men - so what were the convictions that lead him to behave as he did? Although in other ways Mantel gives us great insight into his character, I think she doesn't really address this, and I found it bothering me as I was reading.
Regarding his "tenderness"- in the edition I read there was an interview with the author at the back that was really revealing. Mantel was talking about that lovely scene where he weeps as he remembers his wife and child by looking at a Bible they both had a connection with. Apparently, it is an documented fact that one of Woolsey's advisors came across him weeping in that way. When they asked him why he was crying, he put it down to the situation they were in at the time - as he does in the book, I think. Mantel explains that she wanted to dig deeper in what motivates a person, and so came up with this secondary reason why he was crying. I thought that was a really nice insight into how she wove together fact and ficiton.
All in all, yes, a great book. You've got me re-appraising my rating now.

I think that's a good point -- I can't remember where, when but I do feel she addressed it, albeit indirectly (and possibly directly, I don't know) the whole issue of reading the Bible in English, the right that people have to do that -- somehow I have the impression that he thought this was only right and sensible and even inevitable. He is 'enlightened' from his time in Italy and I think has a grasp that knowledge is something you cannot stop from spreading. I got the impression that just about everyone, openly or secretly was reading the Bible in English. I think also there was an anecdote somewhere about when he was a boy he saw someone burned to death for her beliefs and was appalled and scarred by it, so maybe he simply objects to putting people to death for their beliefs? For all that he 'looks like a murderer' and is fully capable of it, he is someone who has transcended that.

Thank you too for the information that someone did see him weeping. That's lovely.

Clearly Cromwell was special -- way ahead of his time.

Hi Lucy, catching up on a lot of missed posts but pleased to hear you've rated Wolf Hall so highly as that is a planned read for me sometime soon.

At times Wolf Hall required 'effort' to read -- which is sometimes hard in the summer -- but I find myself thinking about it a lot, and relating it to all sorts of things -- Emerson, in fact, at the moment. Cromwell, as Mantel paints him, has the same kind of inquiring mind, remarkable depth of vision and insight.

I'm here to report on Anne Enright's The Forgotten Waltz -- which btw is a completely opaque title to me, not the right title at all. I've given it a high rating and the reason is that I think she digs deeper into the consequences of infidelity through the medium of a narrator who is not a fully sympathetic person, who yet, after a time, began to gain my grudging understanding and compassion -- not just the 'under the surface is a lost child' sort of thing, but a portrait of a person who is grown-up enough to accept the consequences of what she has done even while maintaining her own identity and a weird sort of integrity. The presence of a child, the daughter of the man, Gina falls in love with adds a realistic complexity and the child and her problems are, in the end, the fulcrum on which the Gina's insights into herself and into the man she has chosen turn. I didn't see it as a device though, although some others might. The 1/2 is because I think it's a deceptively put together novel, seeming not to come to any resolution. I can't spoil it, but there is a revelation toward the end, for Gina, about exactly what kind of man Sean Vallely is, that is explosive and quite enough resolution for me. You could choose not to take it in though -- which is exactly how women who get involved with such men deceive themselves, and I think Enright sets it up that way. So you have a book that appears deceptively simple. It would be, in my view, a Virago candidate down the road. ****1/2

Hmm. I more or less gave up on Enright after I read The Gathering, which I hated, but you liked this one so much that I feel maybe I should try again? Have you read that one? If so, what did you think?

I haven't read The Gathering and don't know a thing about it -- I'm not so enthused that I'm going to rush out and find it either -- she actually got the high rating for writerly craft -- for the effect the book had on me in the end that I give Anne full credit for putting toether. The 4 1/2 wasn't so much for 'enjoyment' per se -- it's also to reflect that I often give 4 stars to books that make the 'effort' to be about more than good solid fun. Waltz did that and also succeeding in pushing a bit further than that, for me. I certainly will take a look at The Gathering if I stumble upon it.

It's very Irish, btw, really none of them write 'happy' 'happy' except Binchy.

I'm happily into the Tey while I have an absurdly late lunch.

I'm stopping in on my own thread, because that is all I have time for at the moment -- to say that I have family here and what with various things I can't visit any threads until maybe later today. Tomorrow I head west to a niece's engagement party (Western NYS). I hope where I am staying will have internet, pretty sure it will, so I hope to get a few moments here and there to stop in and visit everyone.

Stay well all of you in harm's way with Irene.

Have fun with family and engagement party. I hope you find a few moments for reading and LT in a busy weekend .

Have a great time, Lucy!

Semiotics???!!?? Shriek... that was me hollering as I ran for cover. No, no, no, no -- not for me! But I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Re Thomas Cromwell -- if you haven't seen "A Man for All Seasons", it presents a wildly different view of Cromwell -- the stereotypical ambitious thug vs More's enlightened idealist. As history shows us, both stereotypes miss things. Cromwell was a fascinating and complex guy, while More's idealism had an ugly side, like his enthusiasm for burning heretics. All in the name of his version of God, of course. Still, a reminder that only interesting people seem to generate such heated opinions and debate, centuries after they die!

I really itch to read Mantel's sequel. I want to see how she deals with Cromwell's downfall...

Suzanne, I so enjoy your writings regarding the Tudors. As you know, you and I share a love of this historical time period.

Have a wonderful weekend, Lucy!

Enjoy your weekend, Lucy!

Where I am out in western New York State it's just gray and windy, probably won't even rain. Poor hubster is home holding the fort. It is raining, but the bulk of the storm won't pass through til late late night/early morning in VT.

I'm lounging in our lovely B&B w/the weather channel on mute, catching up on threads and finishing up a Josephine Tey, I hope! Plan to leave it here for their v. nice fiction collection.

Soon I'll bestir myself to go make the rounds of family visits..... I do enjoy myself but I also wear myself out!

Hope all of you folks by the coast are OK.

#54 B&B sounds delightful, Lucy. I know exactly what you mean by wearing yourself out with rounds of family visits. Do have fun!

I finished up Josephine Tey's The Man in the Queue -- I enjoy Inspector Grant hugely, especially the bit where he is tracking the supposed bad guy in the gorse and heather of Scotland, but I did figure it out early on.....

Tomorrow I am to drive back home. Presently it is still raining in Vermont, our little river is flooded, which means our home is inaccessible by car....... I've told my dau. who is anxious to get back home to her social life etc. that she'll just have to be patient. Even if the river comes down there might be too much mud to drive the car through, we'll walk through the mud if we have to.... I am guessing the iffiest part of the drive will be the last 50-100 miles with the part closest to home on the most 'countryish' of country roads being the most questionable.

Well, I'm glad that you're getting home tomorrow, but be careful, you and your LD. We'll be glad to hear that you're tucked in safe and sound.

What Peggy said!

Me, three!

Lucy, have a safe drive!

Back to books, though -- speaking of inspector Grant, have you read Nicola Upson's books about Josephine Tey, which feature a Grant-prototype? Highly recommend them, starting with An Expert in Murder.

Unlike NYC, I'm not liking what I'm hearing this morning about the storm in Vermont--flooding, etc. In fact, I've seen a report of "epic" flooding with flood damage from one end of the state to another. One story says an estimated 263 roads were closed across the state. Someone from Vermont Emergency Management says it's "the worst I've ever seen in Vermont."

The worst of the flooding seems to be in the south, and I think I'm right in saying that Lucy's home is farther north, more towards Burlington.

So Lucy, when you can, please check in with us.

>61 labwriter:: I heard an NPR report on my way to work today, and rushed over to this thread to see how things are at Lucy's. Ditto the request to check in with us!

Thanks all -- I've just finished looking all around at flood stage reports etc -- the ferry I use (Essex NY to Charlotte VT) is up and running and the New York side is fine. I even found photos of our 'little' river raging along. In my exp. it drops within 12 hours of the rain stopping as we are high up and generally undergo peak flooding early. Yes, we are pretty far north, and our area did not experience the devastation that Brattleboro and Bennington did. I will check in when I get home.

Thanks much, Lucy.

Great to hear from you, Lucy.

Oh I am SO glad you came through reasonably unscathed! So did we, thank GOODness, only a few feett of crap on the lawn to clean up. *whew*

I'm glad you came through OK, Lucy. Our house is fine—we only lost power for a few minutes—but there's major flooding all around town and in the surrounding areas.

Probably the biggest nightmare is that northbound I-287 collapsed at the north end of town. Since that handles 90% of the northbound traffic in the middle part of the state, it's a major blow.

This...normally...is the park down the street from my house:

Yipes! Glad you're OK TadAD!

Yikes! Glad you are okay, too, Tad. And you as well, Lucy!

Glad to hear you're ok, Lucy...

Wow Tad -- you may have lost a park, but you've gained a swimming pool!

Whew! Glad to hear from you both!!!
I just came by an uprooted tree in my own neighborhood, so we got more wind than I thought at first.

Hi there Lucy! Just stopped in to say hi! Glad that you got through the big storm without to much trouble. And Tad - wow! What a picture!Oh Tad - a highway collapsing - that's scary and a real hassle.

Wow, Tad! I've used that road so much -- what stretch is affected?

I am reporting in that I'm home safe and sound -- all the roads I took were fine -- stayed away from the Thruway after Syracuse. I'm impressed at how hard road crews worked -- trees and power lines were all cleared away. Water had come across many roads, but all the ones we needed were sufficiently intact to be open, although one or two were partially caved in -- we saw a garage pulled off its foundation and a lot of raging torrents in the Adirondacks, but all properly within their boundaries.

Hubster says that our town park got flooded too -- cars floating around in the parking area ..... the whole thing.

I can't wait to be in bed reading. Can. not. wait. My apologies for only posting here tonight.

Just immediately north of the Boonton exit, coming toward Montville.

Lucy, so glad you made it home safely to your own bed!

Welcome home! :)

Lucy, I've been AWOL from the threads but saw the news today about Vermont getting hit bad so I'm so glad you're OK. And Tad, those pictures are shocking. I'm glad you're OK too.

I can't wait to be in bed reading. Can. not. wait. Enjoy, Lucy! Glad you are home. Tad, appreciate the pics.

Hi Lucy and I'm also glad you're not suffering like so many of the rest of your state. Also, add me to the list of those who LOVED Wolf Hall.

Great that all is well.

Thanks all -- now I just have to get over that driving fatigue. I have all kinds of things I want to do today, none of them mentally demanding, but I can't seem to tear myself away from 'threading'.....

Glad to hear you are dry and in one piece, Lucy.

Threading sounds like a perfect way to spend a day while recuperating from driving fatigue, Lucy. Enjoy, and we'll enjoy your comments : ).

So, this morning is a "last day of 'real' summer" for me as school starts tomorrow. All summer I've taken a walk first thing after getting up and that will now have to change as I drive my daughter to school. It's been wonderful getting out so early.... most mornings I don't see anything in particular.... and this one was no exception. On the way home I do all my 'chores,' -- market, hardware, p.o., trash drop-off, and so on, so I don't even sacrifice all that much time doing it. Last year I wasn't very good about walking in the morning, so I hope that when I get home I will go right out. I don't want to do any serious exercise this early in the day, but it's been very good for my head as well as body to do it. So I have to get ready for a different routine and I am a creature of habit!

I picked up Faithful Place so, of course, I can barely read or do anything else.... I'm totally wrapped up in it. In some ways I think so far I am almost liking it best. I love the Mackey family and Francis is a sympathetic and interesting. I have been, so far, able to guess where it is going, and if my hunch is right, it'll be quite depressing, but we'll see.

Otherwise I'm plugging along in my New Yorkers for one last day in my marathon. Of the 15 that were my goal I've read 11, read part of and then managed, cleverly, to misplace 2, and I have two left to reach the end of June. Two pieces that I've read have been on NPR as stories -- I rarely listen to the news but because of the hurricane I have lately - one of them this slightly ick-factor one about making meat in a lab. My goal for NYers for September will be to read two a week, which I hope to continue until I catch up and am more or less current. I'll be setting up a September thread over on the New Yorker Support Group that I set up if anyone is interested. We'll be reporting generally on a couple of other mags we read -- Scientific American and Science News mainly.

I'm also reading an Emerson and friends bio, which I am enjoying, but have decided to read one or two short chapters at a time, nothing ambitious.

Ick for sure. I heard a little of that growing meat in the lab on NPR too, Lucy. It reminded me once again of the spot in Sheri S. Tepper's Beauty where with much fanfare, a woman eats the last naturally grown vegetable in the world. It's a radish, which she doesn't know enough to wash off, and she and the world are totally grossed out as she tries to eat it, dirt and all.
Yeah. Tana French is another one I need to get back to.....

I read Faithful Place last May. Seriously, I couldn't put it down. For me there wasn't even a question about this one being her best. I felt she grew by LEAPS in this one over the first two. Her first two books more or less asked you to leave your brain at the door as far as the plots were concerned. Not so much in this one. She does hang a lot on one character's shoulders, but Frank Mackey and all of the Irish family "business" in the book was so entertaining, she was able to pull it off. I found myself emotionally engaged with all of the characters, which is just about the best thing I could say about any novel. Enjoy your read.

I'm pressing on with the Emerson, since I don't want to still be reading the thing come November 1.

Exit question: So what's going to twist you up more: driving your daughter to school or, when she gets her license, not driving your daughter to school? Thought for the day.

Hi Lucy!
Wanted you to know that your report on reading Hinges: Meditations on the Portals of Imagination intrigued me. So much so, that I ordered the book from Amazon. It came very quickly - but OMG! I have never seen a book so crushed. Looked like a freight train ran over it! Well, it DID go thru a hurricane! How it could be so deformed (can't even turn pages very well) and not shredded is beyond me - probably a testament to the quality of the paper, etc.

Anyway, within 12 hours I had a credit and ordered another copy. They didn't want the first copy back, so I managed to read the first page "Entrance". It looks wonderful! Can't wait to get a new readable copy. It's on the way!!! YAY!

The book that survived a hurricane! There's something lovely about that, even if it did come out of it slightly unreadable- I'd be tempted to put it on the bookshelf anyway : )

I wonder what happened to it! I am noticing here that there is considerably less food on various shelves than usual -- deliveries of all kinds have definitely been interrupted or halted altogether. I am so glad you are enjoying it. I feel nervous about some of the books I praise because I do have some quirky interests!

I so agree with you Becky -- it's 'her' voice, but it is somehow very different. Oh it has been hard to do all the things I had to do today! I've been good! Now can I read????

As for the exit question: EASY!! NOT DRIVING is going to be a total nightmare in the beginning. Luckily she will probably be a senior before she is allowed to drive on her own. Vermont, happily, has some strict rules -- an endless permit period and then, even after you get your license, for six months you can't have more than one other person in the car who is not a family member. She's done nothing at all yet about getting her permit and I am just fine with that!

I'm back with a request for some help. My daughter is doing an independent study in Spanish this year and she'll be reading a lot by and about Pablo Neruda -- the kicker is that she'll be reading in Espagnol, not a language I speak or read at all. If anyone is affiliated w/a school and could ask for an book of his in Spanish only and perhaps a shortish biography or portrait appropriate for a 16 year old, 4th year Spanish equivalent..... any advice or recommendations welcome.

#89 Sounds like Vermont has some very sensible driver-licensing regulations, Lucy.

89: I feel nervous about some of the books I praise because I do have some quirky interests!

But that's a good thing!

Thanks for visiting my thread, Lucy.I'm glad that you have fond memories of Woolworths too! Amazing what book title can do!

Hmmm I've never read anything by Tana French but I can see that I'll have to remedy that. As for driving - well - my two sons are now 21 and 26. My husband was not big on teaching them to drive - so it ended up being me that did that. I remember my imaginary brake pedal quite well. Like Vermont, British Columbia has some very strict graduated licensing rules- so it all went okay.

Hi Lucy, I'm glad to hear you got home safely and that your part of Vermont is not too badly affected. Hopefully the shops will be restocked with food pretty soon!

I'm just back from my festival-holiday too and though I'm diverting myself with a few threads, today is meant to be a catch up with washing, unpacking, emails, and generally getting geared up for the autumn, so I identify with your 'last day of real summer' yesterday. Although I'm a bit daunted at the prospect of the busy months ahead (parish life is a non-stop rush from September through to May, it seems to me), I do like this time of year which still, after all these years and without children of my own, has a back-to-school, sharpening-of-pencils, stocking-up-on-notepads kind of feel to it.

I hope you manage to get into some good new routines for the autumn.

I got the LD to school on time and now I am in my bakery - it does feel pretty good to be back in this routine, although it remains to be seen where and how I will squeeze in my 'morning' walk.

I have posted a new thread for September on The New Yorker Support Group thread. There is also a thread for any science magazine type reading for September. The September NYer thread is here . Hope to see you there!

I must be busier than I think because all I want to do is read the Tana French but I still haven't finished it even though I sneak off with it whenever I get the chance!

So I won the third Tana French novel in a Twitter giveaway back in July -- can I read it without having read the previous two?

Also just won (yesterday) via Twitter giveaway the new Jo Nesbo, which is to be a standalone novel featuring a headhunter turned art thief!

I'm finishing up a fascinating book on Gorbachev & Yeltsin, but then am going to succumb to the allure of Lionheart....

I'm a big NPR fan -- like the fact that they use radio very creatively. Do check out Radiolab; if it doesn't air chez vous, maybe there's a podcast? completely redefines what can be done with radio and FASCINATING topics revolving around science.

Lucy, checking out Amazon, they have several books of Neruda's poems in bilingual editions as well as in Spanish only. If you check out their Pablo Neruda page, they have both his books of poetry and his memoir, and it might be worth while looking at the comments and reviews. Since he's a poet rather than a novelist, his use of language is likely to be quite different.

I have one big chunk of a Neruda book of my own -- pretty much complete with selections by different translators and some poems in Spanish, but her teacher would prefer she have a book that is only in Spanish..... I'm thinking I'll go into the Uni of Vermont bookstore and have a look around, see what I can find there. Surely they will have something or other. Thank you so much Roni. Yours is the first response.

Suz -- you're fine reading them in any order, they don't interconnect the way some books do. You are starting with the best one! In fact, why am I here???? I could be reading it!

Oh yeah -- I know why I am here. We just finished our endless project of putting in a landline and today we have DSL!!!!!!

DSL!!!! Yeah, Lucy!!

Woo hoo, Lucy! Now you can visit my picture-heavy thread!

Checking in, Lucy. I lost you for a couple of days. Glad to see that despite the hurricane, you and yours came through safely.

Woot for DSL!!

DSL -- yes, I remember enjoying that... Hope you do, too!

I've decided to give up on Verizon and have cable installed.

DSL sounds like good news, whatever it is!

Sorry for lack of response on the Spanish question. I am completely ignorant on that score so kept quiet - I hope you find something useful in the university bookshop.

... just wandering through, catching up, waving hello ...

DSL is the internet voodoo that comes through the telephone wires.... it isn't as powerful as the cable connection, so I think, in the end Suz, given how much you do on-line, you'll love having the muscle! We are changing from mifi, amplified with a small antenna, to the DSL -- a bit like going from a mountain bike with no gears to a mountain bike with gears. I would say cable is more of a racing bike, to continue the analogy. I've had to pick and choose every day how many threads I have time for, reading while I wait for things to load. So this will be a big change. Of course, the perverse part of me which you all have gotten to now and love (cough) -- the part that has no dishwasher, no dryer etc and sort of likes it that way -- will miss the hardship.

Almost through the French -- this last bit is v. painful. Almost too much for me, v. worried about how it will all play out. V hard for me not to cheat and look ahead. I am so bad that way.

Supposed to be rainy off and on all weekend. Awful for the southern Vermonters.

Good for the DSL!!! Your old buddy here (who doesn't have dishwasher or dryer and doesn't consider the lack a hardship, never having known anything else) remains quite content with DSL.
Sorry for the southern Vermonters but glad that you have a chance to stay in and read!

Our local cable company, Comcast, runs these ads featuring a pair of turtles (Bill and Carolyn Slowsky) who have DSL and see no reason to get Comcast internet because they like things slow. The turtles really crack me up, it's a cute ad campaign. But I'd say for you Lucy, DSL is better than no DSL! If you see Bill and Carolyn, tell 'em I say hi.

106: will miss the hardship Heh. New Englanders.
I switched from Verizon DSL internet / phone to Comcast cable internet / TV when I moved, and scrapped the landline, and acquired cable so as not to be restricted to the sole local channel. As corporations, both fall far short of ideal. As internet providers, I don't notice a difference, but then my needs are modest: information and photos and the occasional video clip, but not movies or games.
108: I recognize the turtles but did not know their names...

DSL is the internet voodoo that comes through the telephone wires hehe. You go, Lucy!

Well, now I'm just a Slowski, before I was pretty much a No-goski..... So I'm almost done Faithful Place....... back later!

......... And now I am done. Wow. What a book. I totally agree with every thing Becky/labwriter says in her review of it and there are lots of others so I will forebear. It's a tough story, very tough, but the family stuff is very real. I can't give it a five because I just can't. I do think that plot-wise something wasn't quite as it should have been, simultaneously too obvious right from the beginning and also too extreme. But I think Becky said more or less the same thing, so I'll shut up! But still, this is almost a perfect book of the genre of thriller/mystery with very developed characters and no flinching. ****1/2

#111: I just finished The Likeness this past week, so Faithful Place is up next for me. I am glad to see you enjoyed it so much, Lucy!

Oh -- I know you'll enjoy it! As for me? Well, a third lousy night of sleep, what is the deal? It did get cooler toward morning and then began to rain which usually sends me off to z-land and sort of did only it was too late. My body can only be in bed for so many hours before it says 'Get me outta here!' So I'm up. Ah that was whining indeed but it felt so good!

I gave myself an extension on the NYer marathon of August to finish by Labor Day and if I work at it there is a good chance I will make it! A couple of us are reading NYers -- not the same issues, btw, just reporting in on our progress -- I've said it before, anyone who would like to please come and join us! There is a September thread now. New Yorker support group. We're amazed how differently we read each issue, like it's a different magazine!

Otherwise I'm up to my belly-button at least in The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet. One thing I love is that Jacob ,while young, is no wet-behind-the-ears type. He is smart and he has dignity even when it is sorely tried by circumstances. At the same time he is no swashbuckler (think Shogun). It's a wonderful book. Nuff said.

Trotting along through the Emerson -- it's a bit scattered and unfocussed, but as Becky says, goes quickly enough and the information is obviously well-researched etc. He doesn't speculate much -- I would be interested in more reaction to Emerson's open-mindedness. I think it was wonderful -- without it, the atmo of Concord could not have happened. It's an interesting point -- Woolf's sister, Vanessa Bell, was, I think a social magnet -- the importance of a warm and hospitable social magnet for these groups to center around is critical. It's not just their riveting convo and brilliance -- someone had to make it fun to be together. In a way that is what Woolf's Mrs. Dalloway is about.

OK that is enough shattering brilliance out of me.

You are too funny, Lucy!

marathon extensions and "shattering brilliance"! I love it!
Have a great day! :)

I just sat glued to my chair until I finished the last June NYer issue -- a very good one, btw.

*shielding eyes from blinding light of Lucy's "shattering brilliance"* Coffee choker ...

I wonder if my husband would like Tana French, Lucy? He's a huge crime fan - basically reads nothing else, and is always on the hunt for new series to devour. He likes things on the dark side, normally with a central character who ages as the series goes on (not that he's fussy or anything....). I just asked him to give me some names and he shot back Charles Willeford,Lawrence Block, Derek Raymond and his most recent discovery Ken Bruen.

I think he would.

I just read the NYer on my Kindle now -- got fed up with the mags piling up, largely unread. I miss the cartoons, but like being able to focus on the stories. Of course, I'm still waaaay behind.

Glad you are enjoying Jacob de Zoet.

119: The Kindle version doesn't have cartoons?

Hi Lucy, trying to keep up with your very busy thread. I'm enjoying reading about your shattering brilliance and am pleased to hear you weren't too badly affected by Irene. Now, Tana French keeps popping up and I might have to go and have a wee looksy..

!21: nope... at least not the last time I checked. Just checked again, and still nope. Doesn't really matter -- they are amusing, but not the reason I buy the mag. ETA: More importantly, it doesn't have ads and no page jumps are required. Now if only Vanity Fair would go Kindle... reading that book as a real mag drives me nuts.

Got my new copy of Hinges: Meditations - YAY! (my daughter swiped the damaged one)
I've already got a couple books going... but I really want to get to this one and will sneak it in. :)

Lucy, your adventures in NYers are coming right along! Also glad you are enjoying de Zoet.

I am definitely taking a break from the NYers -- I'm up to July, practically current! But I'll try to get back into it next week.

I'll be done with May NYers today or tomorrow. A couple nights of insomnia have been productive. Maybe I can catch up!

I admire your determination with the New Yorkers. I've given up all magazine subscriptions because I start all of them with boundless enthusiasm and then devolve into piling-up-in-the-bathroom-due-to-apathy.

I've got four books started right now (The Virginian, Jane Eyre, The Cowboy and the Cossack and A Moveable Feast). The new Louise Penny (A Trick of the Light) is sitting on my Kindle, calling me. The group read is starting Parable of the Sower. And I'm away this entire weekend. I desperately need a spurt of energy such as yours to dig myself out of this hole! :-D

I suspect I'll have to postpone and restart a couple of them later.

We subscribe to five magazines: Science Weekly, The New Yorker, Northern Woodlands, National Geographic and Parabola.... Some of us read a bit of all of them, some focus mainly on one or two, but they all get read to some degree or another. I certainly browse all of them. I mean, if you want to know about Spruce budworm or the effect of the bat die off on the local north woods ecology or the latest invasive bug or plant plague, Northern Woodlands will take you there and more.... If you want to ponder the big ethical, social and moral issues Parabola will offer that. It's quarterly -- but it is probably one of the few mags that I actually get excited about when I see it in my mailbox.

I am really bad about magazines. I say I will cut back and then they offer me a year at a ridiculous price. Now I keep them in the bathroom to read while in the bubble bath, mostly.

I still get the New Yorker and the Economist; I'd like to keep up with Vanity Fair's features but the thing is so bulky and stuffed with perfume ads that I only get it when there's something that I need to read. I love Lapham's Quarterly, but can't really afford it any more.

Just stopping by to say hi! Glad that you are enjoying A Thousand Autumns. I did a group read with that here on LT and it was a real struggle for me... just not my cup of tea...

I subscribe to two church-related publications, both weekly, and both sitting unread for weeks if not months at a time: the Church Times (a Church of England paper) which is mostly boring but has a good cartoonist, and book review sections which I dare not look at, and updates on who has been appointed to which job - the fact that I've not read them explains why I'm so behind on church gossip; and the Tablet which is a liberal Roman Catholic weekly journal, far less parochial than Church Times with usually interesting articles on global issues, and an arts review section which isn't only interested in faith-related arts - as well as some internal RC stuff which is less of interest. Both publications rarely get taken out of their plastic wrappers for months... I've just cancelled my Tablet subscription, with the aim of gradually reading my way through a 6 month stockpile of unread ones before I even consider subscribing again!

Mags. do require 'constant vigilance'.

I can't say I love, love, love de Zoet -- in fact -- I feel about as I did reading Wolf Hall -- willing to stay with it, admiring and respectful, even awed here and there, but not always fully engaged heart and soul -- the brain, yes, fully engaged. I'm now with Orito in the ghastly convent; the Tale of Genji this ain't. Cloud Atlas had a fully entertaining aspect, many dimensions, which are not as operative here. Wolf Hall was more balanced w/lighter moments.

133: The NYer group has expanded to include science, so why not religion too? Start a thread, if you think a bit of peer pressure might help.
134: I read Jacob de Zoet for the group read, as an experiment in expanding my horizons. Upshot is that I like my horizons where they are. Don't read my review yet, it includes spoilers, but I'll be curious to see what you think.

I'll think about it -

Of course I'm tempted to run right over and read yr. review!

Interesting discussion on magazines. I haven't subscribed to anything for years for the same reason - cannot keep up and do not do the "constant vigilance." But I admire your dedication, Lucy.

Just as I don't like short stories, I don't like magazines. We get a subscription to Newsweek with our annual contribution to the localish NPR station. I generally flip through it and send it on to the HS art department. DH gets, reads, and saves N.C. Wildlife and S.C. Wildlife. Mother gets and shares Southern Living and Our State. That's is for us! We are very grateful that she finally cancelled DH's gift subscription to National Geographic; it kept coming for several years after she cancelled because she would renew and they would automatically renew. I'd still take The Saturday Review if Norman Cousins were alive and running it. I let New Yorker, New Republic, and Smithsonian stop long ago, and life is better!
(When my name gets to the top of the list for Jacob de Zoet, I'll read it. I'm in no hurry otherwise.)

We have kind of given up on magazines, too. We do get a lot with various memberships and so forth - alumni mags from mine and my husband's universities, now also from my daughter's, even though she is still an undergrad, National Trust, English Heritage, cycling and walking orgs we belong to, British Museum mag (husband works there), and a few more I have forgotten. They are interesting enough that I don't make a huge effort to stop them coming, but I wouldn't pay for any that didn't come "free" with something else. I would never finish them, and would feel bad. Anyway, it seems like at least some content for The New Yorker, New Scientist and a few others is available free online, so I might explore some of those.

Interesting conversation here. I subscribed to Time because I do enjoy that one but also they gave me a very good present when I signed up - always a bonus. I do read it eventually but sometimes not in the week it arrives and I sort of feel guilty for that so I'm not going to renew it. Now I'll buy a magazine if there is an article I want to read and this way works better for me. The husband has the New Yorker and New Scientist on his kindle and reads them often especially when he feels like a quick read.

Nothing much to report except that in both the Baker on Emerson and 1000 Autumns I am at the halfway mark. I like both books but am not deeply engaged by either of them.

Ah, sorry that you did are not keen on A Thousand Autumns. I was not either. I know what you mean about expanding horizons . I try to that too here on LT, and sometimes I'm successful -and sometimes I think - why did I bother to read that?

I'm more into 1000 Autumns, in fact, enough so that I will probably go finish it and then come back to play on LT..... the middle section is a bit slow somehow, although I am guessing that in 'retrospect' it will become clear that it had to be more or less that way to make the full point about that monastery/convent. Just starting my first ever Octavia Butler. Very exciting!
Otherwise I'm churning through the Emerson and Pals, not as fast as I would like. I know I would like it better if the print wasn't so teeny.

On the nature front. Cats spend all day chasing the grasshoppers, who mostly get away, I'm glad to say.

The thermometer was a hair below 40 degrees F, just a hair, but ..... and I swear the hillside across the valley is slowly shifting color, right now just a fading of the green, so subtle. Colors will be incredible this year as the leaves adore a rainy summer.

We've had so little rain this season that many people on my block not only lost their lawns but also lost small trees. I lost a four-year tree last year because I wasn't paying close attention, and I vowed that this year I wouldn't let that happen again. I've watered as little as possible, but enough to keep things alive. Even so, DH told me yesterday that the water bill for August was double what it normally is. The bill was double, but the water consumption was not. Sigh. Our trees here in Webster Groves that to my Colorado eyes (no color in Colorado except for high country aspen trees) are quite beautiful, will not be so beautiful this year due to, as you say, "the leaves adore a rainy summer." Don was in Rutland one year for work during the height of the leaf color season. He brought back photos that didn't seem as though they could be real. You're very fortunate to live around that color.

143:
I know I would like it better if the print wasn't so teeny.
Oh, this is so annoying, makes reading a strain when it shouldn't be.
Just starting my first ever Octavia Butler. Very exciting!
I read most of her books a dozen or more years ago, and unusually for me I would gladly reread (if only there were enough time in the universe).

142:
I know what you mean about expanding horizons. I try to that too here on LT, and sometimes I'm successful - and sometimes I think - why did I bother to read that?
I'm cautious about horizon expanding, do so only for books that have been praised by multiple people whose opinions I respect, and although I may have some feelings of 'why did I bother?', I also find it useful to articulate what the trouble was.

Oh, I'm so sorry you've lost trees. Absence of water is such a huge thing out your way. Of course, we just got a lesson about too much water.... DH and me were just talking about it yesterday, the destructive force of it when there is too much.

On other fun topics, our wedding anniversary is also September 11th and we don't celebrate it on the day anymore, beyond a kiss and an acknowledgement. Maybe someday? Today is our 29th. I think staying married is the thing, besides remaining upright with a beating heart, that I've done the longest and most consistently. Actually I guess I've been committed to writing longer...... so that's good too.

Anyhow, I'm thinking I'm going to try to take a pic of that hillside every few days to record the change. I want to get my camera functioning again also to record cats jumping after grasshoppers, which is a sight to behold!

Hopefully someday you two can come back and see the whole show together!

Lucy, if you're not celebrating your anniversary today, then I won't say congratulations! That's hard to have 'your' day eclipsed by something so significant/difficult for everyone. I hope you are able to reclaim it for yourselves some day. That long and sustained commitment to each other is certainly worth celebrating.

Pics of the changing hillside sounds like a good project.

Blessings on your marriage.

Oh feel free to say nice things! That's always welcome in my world. We just don't go out to dinner or make a fuss. Usually we find some time in the week following to do something out of our routine.

I don't have an active on line site for my own pix so I guess I'll have to post on my profile page..... but then they will all be collected in one place in my LT pix.

Happy anniversary Lucy (although it must be a difficult day to celebrate on). 29 years is quite an achievement. If I ever make it to 29 years married I can imagine that one of the things I'll have done longest and most consistently will have been to have a ridiculous TBR pile throughout!

Yes. I have that accomplishment to add to my own dubious achievements. I've also continuously had my own dog since, legend has it, that the family dog moved in under my crib when I came home from the hospital. The seven years I was away at schools with no dog in my room were most unnatural!

Wonderful achievements, Lucy - your marriage, writing, family dog (love that one!), all of them! Well done!

Late yesterday afternoon I cut a finger quite thoroughly (scissors) while flattening cardboard boxes that I was unpacking (books, books, books) so today I've allowed myself a full day of reading. I have finished The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet. No review just yet as it is time to go and muddle in the kitchen.

I did spend a little time sitting outside quietly thinking about ten years ago.

Happy Anniversary, Lucy and Mr Lucy! This day 29 years ago was no doubt a very happy occasion and well worth celebrating! Wishing you many, many more years of joy...

Poor Wooly - she's an indoor cat and has never had the fun of chasing grasshoppers. lol
She has however stalked, caught, played with, and eaten a few moths that managed to get inside. eeeeoooo

Hi Lucy. Just catching up. Happy Anniversary!

Happy anniversary! I can see why you postpone the festivities but -- and I've wrestled with this a lot, given the stuff that I saw with my own eyes and the number of people I lost and the guilt I feel about being alive --- I think those of us who are alive, who have something to celebrate like that, should simply celebrate. In a way, that's what we all owe to those who can't be here. At least that's my philosophy, however bad I am at putting it into practice myself.

Cassie is trying to stalk flies, or "buzzies", as my neighbor's 3-year-old calls them. Alas, they keep eluding her paws.

146: Today is our 29th. Congratulations!

You have a very good point Suz.

OK so The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet has more than enough sterling reviews. For my part it was not a dissimilar read to the Hilary Mantel - not only deeply researched but clearly a labor of love, Mitchell is fascinated by the time and place. Jacob was a reasonably rounded character, and the Dejima 'scene' was vivid and believable. The Japanese sections were less convincing, more 'romantic' -- and while I enjoyed the open-ended aspect of just who the heck Enomoto was, well, I wasn't always pulled along as much as i wanted to be. At one point a character, maybe Marinus (one of my favorites) says something about the rational west and the mysterious east, which I think the whole novel is illustrating possibly a bit heavy-handedly. At least for me. I find plenty of mystery underlying our superficially rational culture and plenty of unbelievably hard-headed rationality under a layer of 'mystery' in the cultures of the East -- so it pretty much boils down to being much the same thing in the end.
It is a superb novel and my criticism is that of a quibbler really. I can't give it a five because I wasn't totally sucked into it, but it is as good as a novel can be and could easily be a tremendous read for others. The 1/2 is just me.

Q -- thanks for those links on yr. review!

Adding too that I've started Green Grass, Running Water which I think was a secret santa gift from Laura?????? I'm LOVING it!

I like your comments on de Zoet, Lucy. I had a similar reaction to the middle section, which I was slightly less convinced by than the sections centred on Dejima (because it seemed almost to be in a different genre). It also occurred to me that he gave western religion, in the form of Christianity, a more sympathetic depiction (at least in the character of Jacob, devout but also open minded) than eastern religion by associating the monastery with that sinister cult - though I suppose there was plenty of bigotry and cruelty exhibited by many other Westerners to compensate...

Good comments on de Zoet. I agree w/your rating of 4.5. It was an excellent novel but had its weaknesses at times. It was not as stunning as Cloud Atlas. Mitchell is a heck of a writer and takes me out of my comfort zone quite succesfully.

When I finished reading Cloud Atlas I wanted to turn back to page one and start all over again. I had the feeling there was so much I didn't get the first time around. Not so with Thousand Autumns which I was glad to finish and satisfied to let it go. Both were great books and I should not be trying to compare them.

Hey Lucy! Drive-by hug

I need to read de Zoet. It's been on my wishlist since the first glowing reviews I read.

#159 Excellent, glad you enjoyed Zoet even if it wasn't quite 5 stars.

I enjoyed your comments about Jacob de Zoet, as well. I'll probably read Cloud Atlas later this year.

Thank you Darryl , Heather and Cloud Atlas crackled with energy, but as Claudia points out, Zoet does not, it is a more muted work. Of course, a writer should keep on trying different things.

I'm nodding my head to all the comments on David Mitchell's writing although I still haven't read any yet. Sometimes the reviews make me want to rush out and start and other times I feel lucky to be taking my time to get around to them.

Where are you? Are you really reading Pirsig? DH gives that as a graduation gift to every high schooler on our block. It's one of his (and mine also) favorite books. Excellence!

Oh I'm around -- it's just that I'm in the middle of everything I'm reading, reporting on the Emerson, reporting here and there on NYers (although I was taking a little break from the program).... I've been loading more books up into my library -- we actually have some bookshelves inside to put books on and I really really do have to keep after this project so I can park the car inside the garage when the first snow flies. Friday night there is a frost warning. Yowza.

Yes I'm listening to Z&AMM-- read it, of course, in the 70's and loved it, but I realized the details had gotten fuzzy. What is amazing to me is how much of this book I absorbed and simply made 'my own'. My dau. has been listening to some of it with me in the car. Also amazing is how, with the slow pace and the social digressions, he just keeps making his points, piling up those bricks, one by one. It's truly a great book! I hope when dau. graduates DH will lob a copy this way too! That would be so cool! She is liking it, but gets restless.....

Happy Anniversary!!

I'm late to the party - finally found your thread, Lucy! Happy Anniversary- a little late! I'm just a year behind you, anniversary wise, though our anniversary is in July.

I'm glad that you enjoyed A Thousand Autumns. I joined a group read here on LT and read A Thousand Autumns in late spring. I really was not keen on it. Too many characters and I felt it just wandered all over the place. I realize I'm in the minority, but I guess it as you say, one tries to expand one's horizon's here on LT -and sometimes one has an Aha! moment and other times one thinks - why did I read that again ;)

If you enjoyed the middle section of A Thousand Autumns you may enjoy A Handmaiden's Tale - my previous book because the book is entirely focused on the theme of the part 2 of a A Thousand Autumns.

171 - thanks for looking in. I read Handmaiden's tale last year when I decided I had to read Atwood who I had somehow avoided. How interesting to make that connection between the two books - I thought of that section of 1000 as mainly creepy and unreal and the other as an equally creepy but 'polemical' that is, a book making a particular point. On the other hand both were very carefully thought out and presented, both had a tedious element because of it but 1000 mainly seems to have the purpose of intelligent entertainment. I agree too that the characters were diffuse.

Frost warning already! Get cataloguing those book!

Yup - Problem is I tend to 'hoard' tasks that I think are fun, so that The amount of books stacked up in there for me to do is almost terrifying.

I've finished up Green Grass, Running Water a delightful novel by Thomas King. I'm a sucker for Coyote, he shows up and I can't help following him around to see what he'll do next.
On the cover blurbs the word 'ambitious' sits there like a heavy blob of something unmentionable. I think that is a code word that reviewers use to be insulting, actually, that really means 'over-reaching' or even 'out of bounds'. It didn't seem so much 'ambitious' as a different take on how things go in a wild mix of playfulness and biting humor, down-to-earthness and a good dose of how-things-really-are. The rational and irrational are mixed together here in perfect balance and that is the point. No matter what you do to control your environment, Coyote comes along dancing and singing, and Blammo. New Game. There are several sly puns, carefully crafted and put together, that emerge toward the end as things come to a crisis. I hugely enjoyed Green Grass, Running Water; you might or you might not, it's the sort of book that either tickles your funnybone or just might seem pointless and annoying. Kind of like Coyote. ****

I've come back to add another comment -- one of the characters is an English prof and he and his girl court by flirting over book recommendations, the best being, I felt these were books I wanted to add to my wishlist, quite a few of them I hadn't read. Sinclair Ross As For Me and My House , Arcadian Adventures of the Idle Rich by Stephen Leacock (is this a made up title???? I wouldn't put it past King.

And here's a lovely bit of plain old writin'. "He had forgotten how uncomfortable the Karmann-
Ghia was on a long trip, how everbump telescoped up through the steering wheel, shaking his arms and shoulder, how road noise rattled about the cavity of the car, leaving him with the vague feeling of being trapped inside a castanet."

Had to look up the work 'tuque'. Duh, now that I have, since a french word for a close knit cap is a 'toque' and I even had a context..... jeez.

I forgot to add -- a friend of mine is going to England in a couple of weeks -- partly for a sad reason, a funeral, but then she and her husband plan two or three nights in London. They'd kind of/like to be in the Bloomsbury area if anyone has a recommend for a good B&B nearish to an Underground stop. Plus if anyone knows of any plays, exhibits etc that are must-sees, they would love it. Any recommendations would be much appreciated!

Hmm - I've not read Green Grass , Running Water, but it's been recommended to me by someone who had read both Green Grass Running Water as well as Kiss of The Fur Queen. Kiss of the Fur Queen was excellent, but a very sad portrait of our First Nations people here in Canada. You may or may not like to consider it as a read.

One book I simply loved -and reviewed - is Motorcycles & Sweetgrass by Drew Hayden Taylor. It's just laugh out loud funny -but the author , who grew up on a reserve in Ontario also touches on many sociological challenges that our First Nations people faced in the past and also at this time.

Oh dear! You see how my mind works - one book always leads to another, which is why I have a big TBR pile! ;)

M&S is already on my wishlist from your earlier recommendation, must look into The Kiss of the Fur Queen!

#175 Despite living relatively near London I'm afraid I'm useless at where to stay recommendations. Perhaps ask Luci (elkiedee) as I think she works somewhere near there or Rachael (FlossieT)? Again, I'm not sure about any must sees but all of the museums will have some kind of exhibition open and there's always a whole load of things on at the theatres. Maybe if they have a look at something like the Time Out website which has a calendar of events by month?

Hi Lucy! Finished Hinges: Meditations on the Portals of the Imagination by Grace Dane Mazur
Loved it! Thanks for finding it and reviewing it.

Now... Green Grass, Running Water looks good, too. *sigh* I have others to read first. :}

It's been a couple of days, so I'm reporting in on what I am up to -- mainly closing in on finishing the Emerson bio, about 80 pages to go, three or four days at the rate I've been reading it, two chapters a day. Becky and I have been steadily reading 19th New England fare and things are beginning to intermesh most wonderfully, so that say, a mention of an incident early in the Civil War, the Trent affair when of two Confederate emissaries to Europe were captured and prevented from continuing on -- this affair, settled eventually, was one of the key diplomatic efforts of Henry Adams Sr. and much was written about it in The Education of Henry Adams. Glimpses of Harriet Beecher Stowe and Thomas W. Higginson, begin to build a 'stereoscopic' image of the times.

Otherwise I'm plugging away at NYers, at a slower rate now, but still determined to keep moving ahead, starting a 'fun' novel, a Cathleen Schine who I normally find very entertaining and a dystopic that I like very much so far by Octavia Butler called Parable of the Sower.

I really liked Butler's Kindred, and have Parable of the Sower on my list, so will be very interested to see what you think of it.

Not all books are equal and I've finished up a doorstop today, Emerson Among the Eccentrics which I read in tandem with Becky. Lemme run over to that thread to extract my mini-review and bring it here.

Okay, pant pant, here it is, apologies to anyone who encounters it twice:
Overall I would say that Emerson Among the Eccentrics can best be described as a mosaic, each piece by itself (as in, a chapter) not seeming terribly coherent. Baker's aim was to place Emerson in a context, to place his home life into proximity with various friends, to describe without going deeply into any one thing. As such, it is a platform from which to decide which of these characters merit a closer look. Certainly Ellen's letters seem like a no-brainer, more about Hawthorne, a resolve on my part to clean up some loose ends - I have never read A Week on the Concord and the Merrimack and it has sat on my bookshelves for longer than The Education of Henry Adams with the difference that it no longer sits on the tbr shelves but with the rest of Thoreau's works!

I can't rave about the Baker, I moved through it steadily, but I was rarely absorbed, and yet it is chockablock with solid information. **** worth it to those who are interested in Emerson and/or his Circle.

I'm talking to myself, but I was about to take A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again off my 'currently reading' list since it has languished untouched for at least two months, but then I decided to read a couple of reviews, so now I'm determined to get back to it. I don't know why I stopped, the part I've read I talk about all the time. Anyway, it is one of those potentially obsessive only interesting to LT booknut questions issues.......

I'm putting Pagans and Christians back on because Roni is reading it. I have a feeling this is a book I will take a long slow time with. It is incredibly dense. Peggy read it over the winter. The story of how Christianity ousted the Greek and Roman pantheon is one that interests me. The novel, Porius by John Cowper Powys which is a book I rave about periodically, takes place in the later part of the period that Lane Fox covers, in a small 'kingdom' on the border of Wales and England-to-be - and one of the richest parts of the book is the overlap and interplay of religious beliefs -- the people are much more knowledgeable and sophisticated than we tend to think of them as being, while also being very strange and not like us at all! -- but the picture Powys paints had the ring of truth.

Finished the dystopic novel by Octavia Butler Parable of the Sower. I ended up finding an excuse to do something this morning so that during breaks I could finish it. Any book that succeeds in hooking me that thoroughly gets ****1/2 stars. That said, it is an extremely violent and disturbing portrait of 'what could happen' and there are other flaws that might wreck it for other readers. For me the evocation of the day-to-day experience was phenomenal, ultimately, and the characters are remarkably rounded, so that even quite minor ones feel very 'real'. I have no idea what I'm going to pick up next! There is a sequel to this but I'll have to wait for it.

#184 - I read it a long time ago and loved it, but still haven't read the sequel. I also really liked her Xenogenisis trilogy, which is disturbing, but in a very different way than Parable of the Sower.

I think I'm going to maybe go on a Butler spree. This is very bad for my tbr shelves.

Wow, Parable sounds great - I'll move it up my list!

I've enjoyed dipping into your thread on the Emerson book, knowing nothing about any of the people concerned and getting glimpses of an entirely new (to me) cultural/literary circle.

Interesting to read of your decisions about books on the 'currently reading' list. For me the 'currently reading' collection is a misnomer, because the only ones listed there are the ones I've started reading and put aside - it serves as a reminder to myself about the books I've abandoned often for no good reason, and do hope to get back to one day. But then someone occasionally says 'I see you are currently reading X' and I have to admit that my reading is not very current!

Janet -- the flaws are considerable and have to do with the background anarchy -- it isn't consistent in some way -- but it's a real example of how momentum and other great qualities can sweep those objections aside. A pickier reader might not be able to stand it.

So I'm back again because I've decided to pick up the Sean McMullen trilogy and totally indulge myself..... the first one is Souls in the Great Machine. Has anyone else noticed how hard it can be sometimes nowadays to identify what book is what in a trilogy or whatever - as if the publishers, for some coy reason of their own, don't want you to know. Sort of like department stores with no maps and a byzantine ordering to maximize how much 'stuff' hits you???

Glad you liked Parable of the Sower. I'd encourage you to read Parable of the Talents and the Xenogenesis series when you get around to it. I think Dawn is the first one in the series.

Hi Lucy! Thanks for stopping by my thread. Yes, I can see that we are reading very different books at the moment. I haven't clicked on the links to your books, but I will. It looks to me like you are reading a number of historical books.... I'm going to take a peek;)

Okay, a quick check of your books - it looks to me like you've been reading a fair bit of American History, Sci- Fi and a dystopian novel. Oh no wonder we are not finding ourselves reading many books in common at the moment. For some reason I simply do not care for Sci - Fi , fantasty , nor dsytopian fare. I wonder why I have cannot get myself to enjoy dystopian books, or Science Fiction or Fantasy. It would be an interesting study to find out whether why certain people like or dislike a broad category of books - whether there are some personality traits that influence our dislikes and likes of certain genres. I find the same thing with movies. I do not enjoy fantasy or Science Fiction - or end of the world scenarios. Just like the books that I chose, I like a well done drama, a good thriller or spy movie, intelligently done. I do also enjoy historical fiction and non fiction.

Well - enjoy Souls in the Machine! As far as letting readers know which book comes first - I share your frustration in the mystery series that I read. It's a challenge to find out which one is first, second etc!

As for my "currently reading" - here's a secret of mine. I don't even list a currently reading book until I'm about 40 pages in and certain that I going to enjoy/ or have determined that I will plow through the book, no matter what ;) But we all vary so much in our currently reading. I can really only read on book at time.

190 - I've already ordered Talents and the Xenogenesis books are going on my wishlist!

192
That's a very good idea -- to hold off listing your book until you've made up your mind about it.

The only genre I'm lukewarm on is historical fiction -- but there are many exceptions to that -- if I know that the facts in it are all accurate, and that it is agreed that the fictional parts are plausible, then I'm interested. - Wolf Hall is a perfect example of that. Becky (labwriter) recently had a crazy-making experience with a writer using Flannery O'Connor and then making very dramatic stuff up whole-cloth.

I've only gotten into dystopian books since getting on LT (I'd actually somehow missed even the word itself) interestingly enough, and I still find them hard to read, but so thought-provoking!
SF though, that seems to be a very specialized taste, even though it has gotten more popular.

Hi Lucy, dropping through for a drive by waving !!

Hi Lucy! I was just thinking about dystopian lit as I cleaned the bathrooms!;) You know, I read most of my dystopian lit as a part of my highschool English curriculum. Interesting choices that our provincial government made for we young ones! I read Lord of Flies, 1984 , Animal Farm and Fahrenheit 451 as part of high school English. We even read One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest . We did not call it dystopian Lit, like you, I've learned that term on LT. The theme in my high school years for English was Man's Struggle Against Inhumanity and Man's Struggle Against Man - or something like that, along with fairly feminist literature, and if memory serves my English teachers were all men. Interesting when I look back on it.

My two sons have graduated from grade 12 -and further - and both of them still had to read Lord of Flies as part of their highschool English courses.

I'm with you on historical fiction. I really never read historical fiction until I got to LT, and I like my historical fiction to be pretty factually oriented. Interesting discussion.

Dystopian is very popular with adolescents these days -- Suzanne Collins et al -- I worry and wonder a bit about that -- but of course, just as many (or the same ones) retreat into fantasy and purer forms of sf too. My daughter seems hyper-aware of how fragile societies are.

Kids still seem to respond to the four books you mention - they seem to have real lasting power.
All four punch right down to the basics, not easy books to stomach though. Really, no dystopian fiction is easy to stomach. I wouldn't read any without the 'comfort' of LT probably.

Hallo Lucy! I'm reluctantly admitting to myself that I'm never going to catch up on all these unread posts on everyone's threads, so am dropping by my marker to start again ;o)

In my brief skim of this thread though, I did spy and enjoy the Wolf Hall conversation. I'm clearly going to have to go out and buy it - I've been waiting for ages for my Mum's friend to return her copy and the copy I borrowed from the library recently has just been requested by someone else, so I have to return it before getting round to it (must learn the lesson not to get out too many books at once when I already have a massive reading list of books I own...). Bah.

Re Jacob de Zoet hmmm. I enjoyed it, but in retrospect, I think I expected more from it than I got - I preferred Black Swan Green really.

...and bother, I know I spied a Josephine Tey I'd never come across before (and thus would like to investigate) up there somewhere, but I can't find it now...

#196 "Dystopian is very popular with adolescents these days" - I think it's always been popular with adolescents - I distinctly remember reading a lot, including most of those mentioned above when I was growing up ;o)

Fascinating discussion about dystopian lit. When did that term become popular? Like others who have mentioned it here, I'd never heard that term prior to LT. The name may be new (at least to me), but the genre isn't. I also read (was assigned to read) a lot of this stuff in high school.

I think adolescents are drawn to dystopian lit because it mirrors their everyday angst. Anybody remember the brutal social world of high school? Ack! Lord of the Flies, baby. Perhaps teens are also steered in the direction of this sort of literature in an attempt by their teachers to find something that young people can relate to. I think the literature also gives them a safe venue for dealing with current social/political anxieties and preoccupations.

If you still have your old New Yorkers or you have access to their archives, there's an article about the boom in dystopian lit for young readers: "Fresh Hell," by Laura Miller, June 14, 2010. She quotes Scott Westerfeld as sying, "The success of 'Uglies' is partly thanks to high school being a dystopia." Makes sense to me.

Miller also makes the point that the world teens live in today is very different from, say, even the 1970s--our "hovered-over" teens, growing up under nearly continuous adult supervision, are drawn to a world where kids their age had more autonomy.

Oh yes indeed B, I remember that article. My dau had me read all the Westerfields and while they are, well, YA, they aren't bad at all, they tackle a number of things that teens obsess about (like looks vs character) in a refreshing and energetic way. Plus ripping good story, basically.
You are spot on -- in any event!

I'm quite happy to have a word to separate the sub-genre from other sf/speculative but I have no idea when the term came into general use. Probably it isn't in general use except for us!

197 - No furries about losing track of me -- I can't believe how I'll lose a thread for weeks -- I think it happens when someone does a change-over. I'm learning to read down and look for anything around the 250 mark ........every now and then...... I have Black Swan in the line up, several others have mentioned how much they liked it. The Tey was The Man in the Queue. I did figure it out fairly early on, but it was still fun.

I have to say again that every post-apocalyptic novel isn't necessarily dystopian. Sorry. I just feel that obligation!
That said, I really enjoyed Souls in the Great Machine and then could never get into #2. If you decide it's worth going on with, I might join you since I have all three - and finding out which was the second was as big a headache for me as realizing that there was a trilogy. Of course, that will have to wait until I read *Sower*.

I've always been a huge fan of dystopian fiction but I didn't realize that was a word until joining LT. :) I like the aspect of "what if" and exploring our world from a possibility (somethings rather extreme) perspective and seeing how people cope in that reality. Anyways, all to say that I will be adding Parable of the Sower to my wishlist. Thanks for the review!

How do you know if it is dystopian or not? I have no clue. Although I know that some are simply too far-fetched. My assumption is that the true dystopian is set not too far in the future and makes a big effort to be a somewhat plausible scenario (the somewhat is important!) -- and -- thus the books are a reflection of some socio-political extreme, how it something might play out if it got out of hand or whatever. I could go look it up, but how fun would that be??

Totally forgot to post that I finished The Three Weissmans of Westport. I guess this is sort of high end chick lit? I enjoyed it and if you like a Manhattan-based novel about slightly older women whose lives take an unexpected turn, then you will like it. I can't really give it more than ***1/2 because there isn't much attempt to dig around into deeper places, which is fine with me, wasn't what I was looking for.

If I was ONLY rating it as chick lit it would be approaching a 5, if that makes any sense.

I have to say again that every post-apocalyptic novel isn't necessarily dystopian. Yes, and dystopian does not necessarily mean post-apocalyptic either - far from it. The 'bad place' which is the world in Fahrenheit 451, for example, came about by the very gradual erosion of the values of literacy and a liberal arts education, rather than as a result of some sudden cataclysm.

but I have no idea when the term came into general use. Probably it isn't in general use except for us!
You got me curious about the earliest usage of 'distopian' as a genre. The wiki article on utopian and distopian fiction lists several books whose title contains the word, the earliest published of these is The Dystopian Impulse in Modern Literature (1994). And apparently it was John Stuart Mill in the British Parliament in 1868 who made the first recorded use of the term, to describe foreign policy in Ireland.

As Becky said, the genre isn't new - people have been writing about ideal societies and their opposite for centuries (Gulliver's Travels, anyone?). But I wonder if the dystopian has become more popular than the utopian in the past century for exploring what makes a good/bad society?

Dysfunctional would be the word I would have used about British policy vis a vis Ireland, but Dystopian also works, since certainly it was designed to destroy and gain control over a population. Utopias are definitely out of favor as naive..... also interesting.

Interesting discussion about dystopian. I'll confess to being in my adolescence in the mid and late 70's. We certainly did not use the term dystopian then. I've only learned of the term here on LT. I can't say that I thought that I related much to the dystopian books we were assigned in high school Thankfully that seemed to change once I hit university - though that said - I remember those dystopian novels much more than I do what I studied in university.Interesting comments from genny too.

Lucy - I have not read anything yet from this forum here on Library thing concerning dystopian books - http://www.librarything.com/groups/distopiannovels#forums , but I thought I drop it by in case you were interested -and I will look at it more tomorrow. So many resources on LT! :)

I will definitely go check up on that -- some of the topics look good.

>204 gennyt: and preceding: Lucy, I'm not sure I'd even call Parable of the Sower post-apocalyptic though it's definitely a dystopia. While Butler isn't clear on the subject, I didn't get the sense that we had an environmental catastrophe...more a slide toward environmental problems that finally reached a tipping point where the trend was downhill.

I'm a big fan of dystopian fiction. Not sure when I first heard the term, but pre-LT I think. I've been following the thread mentioned above and can recommend it as a great place to discover some new books if you also like this kind of novel.
For me, dystopias are interesting because they often take an element of contemporary society and tease it out to a conclusion, forcing the reader to think that this is the road society could end up going down if we don't curb some of our more baser instincts. I guess dystopias are more common than utopias as it seems easier to assume that selfish and greedy human impulses will triumph, rather than a utopian ideal of everyone being altruistic, peaceloving, kind etc. Maybe that's just me being pessismistic, but..... actually, I'm not sure I've ever read a novel with a utopia in it, so perhaps that will make me more upbeat. (Wanders off to search for utopian fiction). ((Just realised I don't know how to use italics, so may wander over to some thread wikis first)).

#210: I agree that dystopias seem to be more common than utopias and you're probably right about the reasoning. I guess I wonder why the authors assume either will triumph however. Why won't it just stay the messy mix that swings back and forth around a center point?

Good point Tad -- in fact -- Parable seems to me to be sort of mid-apocalyptic -- somehow you know things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

211 - It makes for a better story, basically. That Marge Piercy one was sort of trying to be like that? Also the LeGuin?

Completely off topic ... Lucy, I noticed on my LT homepage earlier today that you've added a veritable heap of Henning Mankell treasures. Woot! Enjoy!

In a way, basic science fiction is more "utopia"-like in that it usually portrays a future society that is working--and by contrasting different cultures, for example, on different planets in the course of their stories, provide ideas as to the possibilities such societies could take. Of course, a lot of them take what we already have and extrapolate it, but some are really creative.

I don't know what Le Guin's The Dispossessed is--she calls it "an ambiguous utopia".

Lucy, if your friends haven't found a place in london, try http://www.londonbandb.com/.

I am a fan of dystopian lit for some of the reasons already cited -- it points to trends in our society and says, if we're not careful, here's the logical extreme to which this could be carried; do you want to live in this kind of world?? I think the first book of this kind that I read was The Handmaid's Tale, when it was first published -- people now forget the context, I think, but in the mid-80s, the equal rights amendment had recently been defeated; access to abortion was coming under ferocious attack in Canada and the US; there were a lot of women just starting to talk about the Mommy track, etc. Certainly, at the time, it felt very much like this was a trend that could end up in a scary place. Atwood's scenario may have been improbable, but not the roots of it. Similarly, the utilitarian approach to human life and questions surrounding the ethics of cloning, etc -- are we opening Pandora's box?? -- made reading Never Let Me Go fascinating. And Fahrenheit 451 came out of the same kind of reaction to popular culture that also produced Anti-Intellectualism in American Life, Richard Hofstadter's wonderful defense of the intellect and its value. (More recently, his analysis formed the basis for books by Allan Bloom and Susan Jacoby, although both were more tirades.) Sometimes it's easier to make a point in fiction -- it conveys the message obliquely. The Hunger Games books are great entertainment, and while they are dystopian, it's of a different kind. There has been a cataclysm, and society had to be rebuilt. The same is true in America Pacifica (gritty, but not nearly as good) and Sigrid Nunez tackled that idea in a more literary way in Salvation City.

213 - I've read most of them! Believe it or not, I am still cataloguing books in our home collection one and a half years after joining LT, I do think I am closing in on the home stretch, but there are plenty of stray boxes and stragglers out there still to be accounted for..... I like the Mankell mysteries, but less the ones set in Africa. My DH is a huge fan of every word he writes.

214 That is exactly right, of course, Roni -- I'm thinking of Bujold with the premise that if there is enough 'space' out there in the universe, then like-minded people can put together world cultures that work for them. If you don't like it, find another planet that you do like.

215 - Sounds like this might be a fun topic on your blog sometime - from the YA end of the spectrum to the most literary end. I'll have to look into the two last titles you mentioned.

I'm enjoying this discussion although I've read so few utopian/dystopian novels that I'm going to continue being educated by all you intelligent people and your insightful conversation.

#216 Your cataloguing speed is very quick compared to mine Lucy; five years after joining LT I have only scratched the surface of my collection, and nearly half of what I have catalogued is new acquisitions.

How much detail do you go into when you catalogue? I take ages over each book, which is why it's taking me so long (as well as the fact that I don't get on with it often enough except for the new books).

I wonder if utopias are necessarily more optimistic than distopias? A depiction of a good or perfect society points up the failings of our own society, but doesn't always hold out any hope that our society can become that perfect society. I've never read Thomas More's Utopia but I gather that when naming his perfect republic he may have been intentionally playing on two similar sounding greek words (u-topia = no-place and eu-topia = good place) and therefore implying that the ideal society is in fact impossible to achieve.

#218 "I wonder if utopias are necessarily more optimistic than distopias? A depiction of a good or perfect society points up the failings of our own society..."
Gosh Genny, I never thought about it like that before, that's a brilliant point. Actually now you bring it to my attention, that is kind of how I feel about "The Culture", the universe-wide society in Iain M. Banks' work. It's by no means a perfect society, but a place where war has been pretty much irradicated, money is irrelevant and humans are free from the bonds of having to do any kind of work that doesn't interest them, oh and live a life free from disease and suffering, sounds pretty appealing. I do sometimes get a bit blue to think that even by Banks' estimation, we won't have a society like that for about 12 thousand years!

#219that's a brilliant point Very kind of you to say so! It just occurred to me that whether the fictional society is very good or very bad, it provokes reflection on our own mixed up world. I guess it is the particular world-view and ideology of the writer which will determine whether that fictional world leaves us feeling optimistic or pessimistic. And I really must get round to trying some of the Iain M Banks books - I've only read his non sci-fi, Iain without the M books.

Ooo. I have enjoyed the discussion here too. Not to hijack it, Genny, but what do you think about Iain without the M books? I own a couple but have been hesitant to try them. Anybody else? Lucy?

I haven't read any Iain without the M, so I'm useless -- I'm taking a long time with his books also.... a mix of hoarding and laziness.....

The citizens of Earth in Star Trek are more or less at that point too - in less time....

I wouldn't put a bleak pun like that past More.

#221 Which Banks do you own, Peggy? I have read many, if not most of them. The Crow Road was my first and perhaps remains my favourite; I also enjoyed Whit, but with some of the others there is a level of violence and sadistic cruelty depicted which I found quite hard to read although the books remained compelling - Complicity in particular. I have not read The Wasp Factory which is another with some quite disturbing violence I gather. There is a lot of black humour (as well as sex and death) in many of his books which helps make the rather disturbing elements work. I'd be interested to hear what you think.

Just realized too that I forgot to answer the cataloging Q -- the answer is I work quickly -- for many books I don't care what edition I put in --although for others I do. I generally use the ISBN if there is one as that pinpoints the exact book in my hand. The slowest things to put in are exhibition catalogs which we have a LOT of as the hubster is a nartist (that's on purpose, btw) or anything I think might have some value. Also slow are books that precede ISBN or are very early Library of Congress -- for some reason those numbers rarely work. If I can find the right cover quickly and easily I'll do that, but I don't get hung up on that either. Probably the weakest link in my cataloging are the tags but for the present I think I am more in the quantity over quality phase. I can go back later and tinker with my collections once all the books are IN. It will give me something to do, in fact, once the books are all (or mostly) IN.

One way it has been so helpful already is in identifying duplicates -- we inherited two sizeable collections of books from our mothers, many of them truly marvelous things - Of course, over time, as I handle the books and organize them I would find those -- but this way I'm not required to remember it all!

Just dropping by to say hello. Really enjoyed the conversation about dystopian literature although I don't think I have anything to add that hasn't already been said.

...and isn't every dystopia someone else's idea of an utopia?? That's an interesting question to ponder...

OOh, I do love a bit of Iain Banks, with or without the M. I agree with The Crow Road and Whit as being good reads but would also add The Bridge as one of my favourites and The Wasp Factory is a darker read but still good. I also love his sci-fi and my favourites there are Against a Dark background and The Player of Games.

I have The Crow Road and Espedair Street. (The Touchstone is showing *ES* with the M. That's odd, I think.) Leonie, I've read The Player of Games and like it, but my favorite M's are Excession and Use of Weapons. I do feel a need to get back to him, but the year is running out, and I'm nowhere nearly through Kraken.

I'm also a fan of Iain (M) Banks but have barely scratched the surface having only read three of his books, but loved every one of them and own almost all that he has written...just need to find time to devote to reading more scifi. The Wasp Factory is really dark and v. good.

Just passing through to say hello. When the discussion on your thread turns to science fiction, I have absolutely nothing to add. Pretty much ditto the dystopia/utopia stuff. Oh well.

I know that feeling, B -- sometimes I have to wait and wait for a thread I 'follow' to veer back into areas where I can say something and I worry the person thinks I've stopped reading! I can't actually comment about Banks without the M because I haven't read any!!!!

delurking to say... I haven't stopped reading your v interesting thread and I have NO IDEA what the heck this M thing is all about. But I'm afraid to ask as it may lead me down another road to discovery of books I will want to read.

Anyway - HI Lucy! *waves*

Claudia, Iain (M.) Banks writes science fiction with the M included in his name and general fiction without it. I guess I'm going to have to put The Wasp Factory on the wish list. What else can a person do when faced with a first sentence from a review like this one? "Being a great fan of dystopian art and literature, the morbidity and stilted stoicity of this novel resonated well with me."

OIC... Thanks, Peggy. Good Idea. :)

I'm back to report that I can't find *Wasp Factory* in a form I feel like buying, but I did order The Bridge, Whit, and Canal Dreams from a woman on PBS. She has a copy of Espedair Street still on her bookshelf if anybody else is interested.

I hope you enjoy them, Peggy.

I'm following along Lucy but haven't got much to say about dystopian fiction although I did recently enjoy When She Woke which was set in the not too distant future.

Following, too, Lucy : ).

I follow you two, too -- it's interesting how our paths cross and then move off in other directions -- quite marvelous, really.

I was just reminded that I had not put a link to my October thread on here! Tsk tsk!

Here it is: OCTOBER