When does young adult fantasy cross over into adult fantasy?

I have been wondering what elements or characteristics are present for a young adult novel to have cross over appeal for an adult audience. Any thoughts?

Good writing?

A story that has depth; that you can read as a young adult, and re-read as an adult and find things you completely overlooked when you were young.

I think what the OP meant was books that appeal to both young adult and adult readers, not necessarily books that can be re-read years to find new insights.

I think things like setting and theme play a role in crossover appeal--they need to be meaningful to both audiences, and not be weighted toward one end or the other.

Yes, that's what I was getting at Marissa. Thanks. There are lots of examples of YA books appealing to adults without alienating either reader (young or older). But Bruce's point about good writing is without question a major factor.

A writer myself working in these kind of areas, the topic is especially relevant.

Young adult and even children's literature are often very well-written. When one reads The Hobbit, it's very clear that children are the target audience, yet it's so involving a story, and written with such good humor, that plenty of adults, including me, enjoy it thoroughly. It's still children's literature, but well-written enough to appeal to a wide audience.

That's one of the more clear-cut cases. There are plenty of times when I don't understand at all why a particular novel or series is classified as YA.

The general rule is that books are classified as YA or adult fantasy depending on the age of the protagonist. If the main character and most of the supporting characters are adults, in an adult environment, with adult responsibilities, then the book would most likely be classified as adult fantasy, or "regular fantasy." If the main character and most of the supporting characters are teenagers involved in a "coming-of-age" plotline, then we call the book YA fantasy. Books of both kinds may be superbly written.

Yet even that rule doesn't work all the time. The protagonist of Gaiman's The Ocean at the End of the Lane is a child (for most of the book, anyway), yet we wouldn't call this book children's or YA fantasy; it's shelved in the "regular" sci-fi/fantasy section of the bookstore. The protagonists of Melina Marchetta's Lumatere Chronicles are twentysomethings with adult responsibilities, and indeed, the protagonists of the first book are parents in the second; not only that, but their world is full of often horrifying brutality. Yet these books are shelved as YA fantasy. Both Gaiman's and Marchetta's works are quite well-written, though very different.

A few years back at Dragon*Con, a commentator on this issue said the main difference between YA and adult fantasy can be summed up in a single word: hope. YA fantasy tends to be more optimistic than adult fantasy. This generalization holds some water, though even here, some exceptions leak through.

There are a lot of "bad writing" issues that we find in works of YA literature that are incredibly popular with their target audience -- weak characterizations (e.g. the "blank slate" heroines that any teenage girl can identify with), superficial plot and situations, etc. "Twilight" clones are multitudinous, as are series striving desperately to be the successor to The Hunger Games. This kind of imitation is incredibly cynical and nearly always results in dreadful writing, yet it seems to be saturating the current YA market. If writers and publishers aren't careful, readers will indeed start to associate "YA" with "weak writing," if we don't already.

Interesting what you say there Kceccato. Making your writing style accessible for a younger audience while still maintaining the quality of the writing is obviously a major stumbling block. My recent novel was an attempt at doing this, but whether I was successful will have to be judged by the readers!

Adult books sometimes get turned into YA by publishers.

Ender's Game was originally published as adult fiction. I've even seen The Wheel Of Time published in YA editions. Outside genre The Curious Incident Of The Dog In The Night-time was originally published as adult fiction, but now exists in a YA edition.

I sometimes think certain fantasy classics such as The Sword of Shannara and Pawn of Prophecy might have found themselves in the YA category if it had been around back then. Now they're protected by a sort of "grandfather clause".

Bruce hit an important factor: depth. Especially depth of character development - but also depth of the world-building, so it's vivid and real. Plus the ability to write what is True. And the evocation of life issues that affect all ages. A compelling story is necessary but I don't think as central as the other factors.

I've always enjoyed all levels of reading, from picture books up, as long as they resonate with me.

#8

Eddings has also been re-issued in a YA edition.

>9 rshart3: Also, narrative complexity. A lot of YA uses a mostly single-strand narrative and a limited number of viewpoints.

Good point, Jarandel. I was conscious of that in my book and tried to vary the perspective.

Not sure if this is allowed but my book will be free for a review period of five days from tomorrow 1/11/13. Feedback would be very welcome. It's called Bad Holiday in Witch Town.

It's a trap!

I think I now know that mentioning my book is frowned upon. Sorry for any offence caused.

I think the best progression from YA to Adult is Harry Potter.
I'd consider most of the books YA, but then the curve comes and it becomes gradually more and more Adult.

As a kid I never read YA.

Is it possible that some books are classified as YA to gain attention? It seems such a hot area, for now. I've written a novel that I begrudgingly put out as YA, but as it start to get feedback, it is middle-age women who are loving it. Maybe I should rethink my classification.

>17 Troika: It's obviously been done a lot those last years.

Don't think there's a particular need to change classifications though, unless your book is borderline regarding elements that may not sit too well with a genuine teen (or the person(s) concerned with what the teen may be reading, which might be another kettle of fish entirely).

Older people looking for fluffier or formally simpler reads have been flocking to YA books in droves lately, as whatever stigma might have formerly been attached to 'reading under your age category' melted under the protection of sheer numbers.

This trend has its problems, but if your book benefits from it to meet its readers the more power to you.

Good question. I think writing a book that appeals to both younger and more mature readers is a lot like making a movie similar to Shrek. You need to put in clearly stated events and descriptions that younger people can understand and enjoy but with some "hidden" innuendos and details that adults would get.

For example, I wrote a scene where the main heros are at a party and drink some potions that make them slightly hallucinate. the younger crowd would look at it as potion but, by describing it as having a "mushroomy" taste, let older readers get something else out of it.

Of course, there is also a way of writing about sex and violence...not too explicit so as to shock kids, but not so watered down so older readers will be bored.

In any case, just a few ideas,

Tim

PS:Sorry for the Shrek analogy but I think y'all get the point?

Oh, another thing.

I think authors like RA Salvatore also do a decent job trying to bridge the gap. This is especially seen in the Drizzt books.

The story, in itself, is rather linear...moving from one place to the other, fighting bad guys, saving the day etc. At the beginning of each chapter, however, Salvatore writes these internal monologues that Drizzt is having where a lot fo "adult' themes, thoughts and angst comes out.

I was talking to a friends son, who is 13, and loves the Drizzt books. He said, however, that he barely skims the monologue thoughts at the beginning of each chapter. He finds them boring. This doesn't seem to bother him too much as he buys every Drizzt book that comes out.

19. What's wrong with Shrek? I liked it. Lightweight, mindless fun.

No offense to our most loveable ogre. I love Shrek as well but it is a movie not a book...

#22 -- Au contraire: Shrek by William Steig.

#16 -- Actually, I'd say the Harry Potter books progress from children's to YA, as the characters in the books do. I wouldn't call any of them adult; they still have the themes typical of young adult books. Now, if Harry had died (and not come back) and Voldemort had won at the end of the final book, I would probably not argue that the last book in the series could be said to be adult.

>24 foggidawn:, probably accurate. The Hunger Games is considered YA, so clearly it's not violence alone that bumps something into adult territory. Adult literature comes from where the emphasis is placed on character development, setting and theme. The same story can work and be told for children and adults, but will require being written in completely different ways.

I've wondered how Harry Potter will play among children now that it's completely published and they can read the whole thing at once. As it was being published, the readers were forced to age in real time along with it so it was a perfect match for them. Now an eleven year old can read it all at once, well past the point where it's aimed squarely at them. They would probably find each volume becomes a little more dull and obscure. Rowlilng might have made the page count increasingly large on purpose, to help dissuade her youngest readers until they were ready to enjoy the later books. Not that an eleven year old can't read anything he/she sets her mind to.

The same story can work and be told for children and adults, but will require being written in completely different ways.

I have to disagree with this, unless you're only referring to the very barest events of a story.

26: What do you mean, @Marissa_Doyle? That it does not have to be re-written in a different way? Or that the same story cannot be retold for children? You seem to be referring to the last option?

>26 Marissa_Doyle:, my comment was inspired by what I'm currently reading, The Hunger Games. I'm feeling "uninvited", like the book is asking me "what are you reading me for?" Katniss' inner thoughts are distinctly YA geared - sarcastic, not very insightful, etc. Appropriate characterization for her age and circumstance, certainly, but she would be filtered through some kind of narrative overseer if this book was intended for an adult reader. The movie felt layered and I saw some depth in it, but the book is relatively shallow. I'll stick to the movies.