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1RickHarsch
I just came across this valuable summary. Nothing new, but a good reminder.
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2014/01/23/more-than-2400-dead-as-obamas-dr...
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2014/01/23/more-than-2400-dead-as-obamas-dr...
2Michael_Welch
I'd like to leave the warS "behind" but they "reappear" nonetheless. It seems as if catastrophe is "everywhere" these days...
3RickHarsch
Actually I posted that here because I came upon a passage in Sheehan's A Bright Shining Lie describing the aerial killing of Vietnamese civilians in 1962, how it revolted JP Vann, whom the book is about, and how the most shameful, the most horrific acts of the US continue unabated, different guises as necessary, I suppose, but dead babies--and other civilians nonetheless.
4Michael_Welch
Syria, Central African Republic, South Sudan, Ukraine, Thailand, the "ring of steel" around Sochi and the "black widows," India as "the rape capital of the world" -- it NEVER seems to "end"...
5RickHarsch
In 1962, the US was the new and moral empire. 50 years later what is it? Listing every place that's turned to shit in this context is obfuscation for its own sake.
6Michael_Welch
Well the US as a "new and moral" empire never really was but I don't see the rest of the world as especially "better," historically or at present...
7RickHarsch
Perhaps it is time to call an end to the sham 'American (US) Experiment', for it has, morally, proven unfit for human life. It didn't work.
(And of course you know of many occasions when the US nipped other experiments in the proverbial bud.)
(And of course you know of many occasions when the US nipped other experiments in the proverbial bud.)
8Michael_Welch
I don't believe in an "exceptional" country but I do believe that often the US IS a "progressive" nation but it's hardly "perfeck" and ought to acknowledge its own "troubled" history and it often does or at least MANY Americans do, even those "in authority."
The current warS have their origins in older imperialisms but as per Howard Dean when asked in 2004 "Is Iraq our enemy?" he replied aptly "It is -- now."
Obama is currently being castigated by his former sec'y of defense Robert Gates for not being uh "passionate" enough about the war in Afghanistan but then Gates says he quit as sec'y because he could no longer DISpassionately order troops into battle! Is Obama "colder" because he can? Or more uh "passionate"?
He Got "US" Out of one and is getting "US" out of the other but always "at a price." Just like TR "ending" the Philippine war HE didn't start and Nixon re Vietnam -- the ending is as ugly as the beginning...
The current warS have their origins in older imperialisms but as per Howard Dean when asked in 2004 "Is Iraq our enemy?" he replied aptly "It is -- now."
Obama is currently being castigated by his former sec'y of defense Robert Gates for not being uh "passionate" enough about the war in Afghanistan but then Gates says he quit as sec'y because he could no longer DISpassionately order troops into battle! Is Obama "colder" because he can? Or more uh "passionate"?
He Got "US" Out of one and is getting "US" out of the other but always "at a price." Just like TR "ending" the Philippine war HE didn't start and Nixon re Vietnam -- the ending is as ugly as the beginning...
9RickHarsch
I'd say Obama's bombings of Pakistan earned him The Hague.
I also just read (I had forgotten) that white phosphorous was used in Vietnam as early as 1962, just as it was later used in Fallujah--and elsewhere. I would say a country that has committed as many war crimes/crimes against humanity as the US without anybody ending up in The Hague is indeed an exceptional country.
I also just read (I had forgotten) that white phosphorous was used in Vietnam as early as 1962, just as it was later used in Fallujah--and elsewhere. I would say a country that has committed as many war crimes/crimes against humanity as the US without anybody ending up in The Hague is indeed an exceptional country.
10Michael_Welch
AND a very powerful one...
11JGL53
> 9
U.S. government intentions are always good - with noted exceptions like Bush/Cheney - but our government's methods are many times questionable - by those who avoid the drones, etc. and are still alive to question.
The U.S. is the world's only Super Power - thus, the U.S. will do as the U.S. wishes - until the day it isn't.
History 101. Human nature 101.
Your main recourse if all this bugs you to distraction is to move to either Colorado or Washington, where pot is legal. (I'm actually thinking about it myself.)
U.S. government intentions are always good - with noted exceptions like Bush/Cheney - but our government's methods are many times questionable - by those who avoid the drones, etc. and are still alive to question.
The U.S. is the world's only Super Power - thus, the U.S. will do as the U.S. wishes - until the day it isn't.
History 101. Human nature 101.
Your main recourse if all this bugs you to distraction is to move to either Colorado or Washington, where pot is legal. (I'm actually thinking about it myself.)
13RickHarsch
>12 BruceCoulson: Looks interesting, though I imagine only some of the details would be surprising. And getting into the war in the first place was such a criminal sham it almost doesn't matter...

