Format changes I, cont'd: Media source

Following on our introduction of media data ( https://www.librarything.com/topic/192820 ), I've added a "Media source" field, so you can see where your media is "coming from."

You can add it under Display options > Miscellaneous
https://www.librarything.com/settings/styles#miscellaneous

You can also see it summarized on the "Media" view within your catalog.
You can see that here: https://www.librarything.com/membermedia/MEMBERNAME

Screenshot 1:


Screenshot 2:

If I click on Directly from the book record, it only keeps that selection for page 1. As soon as I go to page 2, I'm back in the entire catalog.

Fixed. Thanks.

I clearly misunderstood something from the previous thread, because I had been under the impression that it was book record or nothing (you said):

Yes, sometimes we could know {hardcover vs paperback} by falling to what we know about the ISBN (presumably from Amazon). Maybe we should do that. At present, if we have data for the book itself—amazon XML or library MARC—we use that. We aren't combining information like that.

So obviously you didn't mean what I thought you did, which is that you weren't using ISBN-level data if the source we added from didn't have format information. So what did you mean here?

We use the book data, if there's book data.
We use the ISBN-level data, if there's no book data.
We use work-level data, if there's no book or ISBN-level data.

What we don't do is COMBINE these levels. If the book data says "Paper book" we don't look to the ISBN level and make it more specific, if the ISBN-level has the specificity.

This is a common thing, because library data simply can't tell us if something is a paperback or hardback. All it can tell us is "paper book." ISBN-level data can, because it can know it from the Amazon data, but it would require combining book data and ISBN data, library and Amazon data.

Clear?

So only Amazon sourced books have a chance of having hardcover or paperback already set?

Right. To change that would involve doing what we're not doing. Frankly, I'm torn.

I think I don't understand work-level data: if enough users manually-entered the relevant binding or mass market vs pocket-size, wouldn't future work-level data have it a la Overcat? Or is that the mixing of levels, the original entry + added layer of manual entry?

Why is "media source" grouped under "miscellaneous" while "source" is grouped under "bibliographic"? Please tell me it's not because "bibliographic" is just "biblio*".

>8 elenchus:

Well, work data can never be more than just the top level—book, sound recording, video recording. Works embrace all editions. So the mixing isn't the problem per se.

Why is "media source" grouped under "miscellaneous" while "source" is grouped under "bibliographic"? Please tell me it's not because "bibliographic" is just "biblio*".

I guess because it's a very edge-case data thing. The source by which LibraryThing is calculating your media is not, I think, a standard bibliographic thing.

The data is bibliographic even if the sourcing / calculation is not "standard", so as a user, I expect to find this sort of label with the other one ...

>10 timspalding:

Thanks, that makes sense. So I should have asked about the edition layer rather than work layer. Perhaps then ISBN (edition level) isn't unique across the bindings (MM versus Trade versus pocket size), so that LT couldn't collect and use the specificity from one user to fill in the missing information on another -- there isn't sufficient information to know which to use for anyone's record with missing information.

If that isn't the issue, then I wonder why you don't crowdsource the information, rather than "combine the levels" from different official sources. The approach would seem to add value to LT's database, as well as added functionality to members.

I suspect the answer to that question is that the crowdsourced solution relies on the fabled edition layer, which has been discussed but as yet is not implemented. And from what I gather, that's a bigger kettle of fish than perhaps you want to take on right now.

I have a question that I haven't seen answered elsewhere (probably my fault). I am slowly fixing all my "not set" books and some of them are born as paperbacks but has then been bound by a library, so my copy is currently a hardcover.

I'll normally enter these as Hardcover, but what do the rest of you do?

Hardcover. Because it is, and I set the format for my own library, for my own benefit.

>13 bnielsen:

Hardcover is easiest. The library term of art for paperbacks rebound as hardcovers is "turtleback" if you want to distinguish these.

>13 bnielsen: Good question. I have a couple copies like this myself, and have entered them as hardcovers.

That said, >15 lorax: is right, too.

>15 lorax:

Thanks for that term of art: a useful and lovely term to know.

>15 lorax: Awesome! I learned something new today (and that makes it a good day). Thank you.

>15 lorax: Thanks!

Now I'll have to find a discworld novel like that on the next library book sale, so I can have a turtleback with Great A'Tuin inside :-)

I'm cleaning up my media types today and my profile says 792 Not set. But when I click on that category it goes to catalog and shows my entire collections of 4,848 entries. How do I find those "Not set" items in order to edit them?

>20 2wonderY: You find one in Catalog view, double click and choose View Statistics and click on the Not set.

You can find them in the catalog by selecting "media" from the drop-box that is the third element across the top.

>21 bnielsen: an >22 jjwilson61: Thanks!

Tedious job. Does this list represent all of my manual entries? It seems too long for that.

I'm seeing a mixture of manual entries and entries from amazon.com for your "Not set" books, @2wonderY.

My media list identifies 'pamphlet' for several items, but that is not listed as a choice in the drop down box. How can I use that designation for other items I'm editing?

>26 2wonderY:

Are you looking at the "full list" (reached by clicking on "See full list" in the dropdown)? I see "Pamphlet" there, as a subcategory of "Paper Book".

>27 lorax: Aaaaah! Looky there. Thanks again!

No problem. All sorts of things turn up as soon as you ask someone else to help you look for them. ;-)

>29 lorax: The library says I never returned The Complete Short Stories of Mark Twain some time ago. Can you help me there?

>30 2wonderY:

Well, I know where my copy is!

Media type doesn't seem to export in a download. How can I change the fields that are included in an export so I can get the media type?

Thanks!

>30 2wonderY: Have you tried going to the library and looking for it on the shelf near where it belongs? Also, with Mark Twain I would also check the J Fiction shelves.

>33 MarthaJeanne: Sadly, it was an ILL, so it went missing somewhere in transit, I think. I've picked up similar volumes second-hand twice, but it never proves to be the correct edition. The library in question would rather not have a replacement than have to re-catalog.

>32 fairytalelady: The Media/"format" field exists in JSON exports of "Your Books", but not yet as TSV, Excel, or MARC export. Will discuss with the developers and report back!

ETA: Okay, we will be adding the "format"/Media field to TSV and Excel exports soon. They will be added as Format Code (ex: 1.1.1 in LibraryThing's Media Taxonomy) and Format Text (ex: "Paperback"), just as they are in JSON exports! We will eventually add them to MARC exports when we have more time.

On my profile, I see the following:

MediaBook (2,219), Paper Book (2,205), Audiobook (1), Ebook (13), Sound Recording (9), Other (35), Printed music (34), Calendar (1)

However, when you click on Audiobook or Sound Recording, there is none (that is correct). I went through my library and fixed many of the formats.
Is there any way to make it recalculate these numbers?

Hmm, I just went to your profile and when I click on those links I get the appropriate number of books listed:

http://www.librarything.com/catalog/mene&deepsearch=media%3A+sound+recording --> Sound Recording books (I see 9 books listed)

http://www.librarything.com/catalog/mene&deepsearch=media%3A+audiobook (I see 1 book listed: http://www.librarything.com/work/14016272/book/99731935)

I'm just adding links to "Your Books" searches for the Media types in question, since the Media links from your profile page are direct. I also tried logging in as you and testing those links. Do you see any sort of message when you click on your links and see 0 books listed?

I tried it again and I didn't see any books listed, but then I saw that I had "Your library" selected as the collection (maybe that was because I was editing the list of that collection). When I switched to "All collections", I saw the other media types :)
On the .nl site I was in the "Your Library" view, but on the .com site I wasn't - so then I noticed the difference.
Thanks :)

The message I see is
Member: mene
Format: Sound Recording x

No books found in this collection.

But then I have the "Your Library" selected, and then the message is correct!
When I have "All collections" selected, I can see the items with that media type.

A ha! Mystery solved! Glad you're all sorted now. Feel free to email me at info@librarything.com if you have any further questions.