GeoCAT Planning Thread - Part Two

And the results are in, and not unexpected. We'll be dividing up the world geographically. We've discussed how this might look and the following things became clear - we're not sure as to combining Polar Regions with Islands and Bodies of Water, or with merging Polar Regions in with the countries they are attached to. We wanted to have a greater emphasis on reading outside of the usual anglophone areas, and wanted to have three categories for Asia, but we did like the idea of scrapping Oceania in favor of concentrating on New Zealand and Australia.

What we now need are two to four options to how to specifically break-down the world into categories, so that we can vote on this. If anyone would like to post a likely break-down, or more than one, please do so. Let's discuss as we see the suggestions come in and on Monday I'll post up to four options for us to vote on. If we have more than four options, we'll need to discuss which ones we like so that we have a maximum of four to vote on. More than that, and it will get unwieldy.

So, how should we do this?

>1 RidgewayGirl: Is there a particular reason for needing to reduce the number of options to 4? We have 5.5 different geographical breakdowns that were suggested in the previous thread, and we've managed votes with more than four options in the past.

I agree that having more options to choose from can be workable, especially if we allow ourselves to vote for our top two or three picks.

Even if we have to do a quick second vote between the top two it would be OK.

Would everyone be okay with a choice that only had a small number of votes, and yet won?

I'm fine with an unlimited number. I prefer to have the chosen format win an outright majority, but if everyone else is fine with a large number of choices, let's do it!

I think all the proffered options should have their chance to be voted on.

#5. That's the reason I suggest voting for top 2 or 3 choices. Even if my #1 pick doesn't win, I will be happy with #2.

>7 sjmccreary: That sounds good to me. That should help ensure that the winner still gets a majority vote, and we can always have a run-off if necessary.

Okay, so these are the options suggested so far: The votes taken so far, counting only the votes where the results were more than 3 points apart, were that we wanted Australia and NZ as one category, Islands and Bodies of Water and Polar Regions to be combined, three categories for Asia, and for the challenge to be less Western-centric.

Here are the possible choices, as pulled from our previous thread. I've removed the ones whose difference was on issues we've already voted on (that is, options that had two Asia options, a UK and Ireland category or divided up the world by non-geographical methods, etc...).

Option One.

* North America (Canada & the U.S.)
* Mexico and Central America
* South America
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe
* Northern Africa
* Sub-Saharan Africa
* Central Asia (The Silk Road)
* South East Asia
* Far East Asia
* Australia & New Zealand
* Islands, Bodies of Water &
Polar Regions

Option Two. (Omits Polar Regions)

* North America (Canada, the U.S. and the Artic)
* Mexico and Central America
* South America including Antarctica
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe
* Northern Africa
* Sub-Saharan Africa
* Central Asia (The Silk Road)
* South East Asia
* Far East Asia
* Australia & New Zealand
* Islands and Bodies of Water

Option Three. (More emphasis on the non-Western world)

Removed

Option Four. (Mexico included in with US and Canada)

* North America (Including Mexico)
* South America
* Central America and Caribbean
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe and Russia
* Eastern Asia
* Southern Asia
* Central Asia
* Australia & New Zealand
* Northern Africa and the Middle East
* Southern Africa
* Polar regions, Islands, Bodies of Water

There were eight options in the previous thread, but most involved elements we've already decided, bringing the total to vote on to four. I've tweaked a few to pull them in line with decisions we've already made, while preserving the ways they differed from formats already offered. Please take a look and see if there are any other formats that you would like us to vote on, taking into consideration the things we've already voted on (for example, we voted to choose a geographically-based break-down, so I omitted the suggestions based on cultures or landscapes).

If you've got a suggestion, please format it as above, so it will look the same as the other suggestions when we vote.

Since some of the decisions that we theoretically made were inconsistent, I wouldn't want to eliminate any of the suggestions on the basis of that. For example, it's quite possible that we could choose to eliminate Islands/Polar Regions entirely, if the vote to combine them won because people just wanted to reduce the number of months spent on those. So I'd like to see at least one of those options retained. E.g.,

(Edited to add description: Geographical Regions with British Isles and Ireland having a month and Asia having three months; Polar Regions split between Canada/US and South America; Islands/Bodies of Water omitted (essentially scattered about according to geography))

* Canada, U.S.A., and Arctic
* Central America & Mexico
* South America including Antarctica
* The British Isles & Ireland
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe
* Middle East and Northern Africa
* Sub-Saharan Africa
* South Asia
* East Asia
* North and Central Asia
* Australia, New Zealand, and Oceania

This was 6b in the earlier thread, where the decision to eliminate Oceania was reversed due to the lack of island regions.

I think this will be my last post in the discussion, but I just want to add that I find it frustrating when we have a basic decision-making process in place (suggest ideas, and vote on them), but it constantly feels like there's another level of decision-making outside of the votes that we have to push against just to get ideas included in the votes. I wish we could just vote on all the complete geographic breakdowns that were proposed already without having to suggest them again.

I like having the Middle East included with Northern Africa & would suggest adding it in Options 1 & 2. Otherwise, I am ready to vote!

>12 leslie.98:. I'm curious why you want to combine N Africa with mid-east. I think that will dilute Africa.

I don't mind a separate mid-east region, but that would give us 4 Asia regions and there might be some who would oppose that idea. I definitely think we need 2 Africa regions, without one of them being paired with one of the most dynamic parts of the world, which is not part of Africa.

If we're serious about focusing on non-western areas, why don't we eliminate US and Canada and UK?

Actually, in geopolitical discussions, the term is "MENA," meaning "Middle East and North Africa." The histories and cultures of Egypt, Libya, Morocco, and Tunisia are very much intertwined with that of the other Arab nations associated with the Middle East (Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, etc.) and carry an identity distinctive from the rest of Africa. It is commensurate with the idea of Western Europe and Eastern Europe.

With that in mind, I'm going to propose Option Six:

* North America (Canada, the U.S.)
* Mexico and Central America
* South America
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe
* Middle East and Northern Africa
* Sub-Saharan Africa
* Central Asia ("The 'Stans")
* South East Asia
* Far East Asia
* Australia & New Zealand
* Arctic and Antarctica

This option adds the Arctic & Antarctic as it's own topic; removes the Arctic and antarctic from North America and South America respectively; Keeps the favored Australia & New Zealand region; Maintains the favored three Asian regions ("Central Asia" can also be "The Silk Road" if reader(s) prefer); Adds North Africa to the Middle East; Allows reader(s) to assign Islands and/or Bodies of Water to whatever country or area as they see fit.

Overall, not only do I think this is a pretty good geo break-down; but a cultural one as well.

EDIT: To correct redundancy in geo breakdown; To add description; To add one line advocacy

>11 _Zoe_: Zoe, I understand your frustration. But if we do say that we can ignore one vote, then we really should ignore all of them and we're back to the start of this process.

No one will be entirely pleased with the final outcome (except those who just want something to be decided!) but if we were to continue to keep all options on the table, regardless of previous decisions, we will be here until 2016 begins and we either have something or not. Yes, not all the decisions were compatible, and we have decided on sometimes contradictory things. It's what happens in a group decision. I can't see a way to dismiss some decisions and keep others, other than cavalierly deciding whose ideas are better. This is what we have. If you want to bow out for a few days, or just return to see if you have any interest in participating once the whole thing is ready, I think we all understand. Your layout will certainly be included in the voting.

>13 sjmccreary: Sandy, do you want to propose set-up? I like the idea, but it would be good to see how that might look. And we can always read more than one book in any given month if it isn't chosen.

>14 Tanya-dogearedcopy: Excellent! Could you also tell us how it differs from the other options? I can do this, but then you run the risk of my not catching something. Just a different breakdown of Asia?

I'll put up the votes on Monday, so please continue to suggest options if they occur to you. I'm seeing signs of fatigue, so as encouragement I'm reminding everyone that once this is done there are just a few small votes before everything will be ready for 2016, and those who like to plan ahead are able to do so. The final issues will be whether or not to have a focus topic, and whether to stick with the categories as decided or to randomly mix them, so we aren't in Asia for a quarter of the year.

>14 Tanya-dogearedcopy: Currently you have the polar regions twice: once included in other regions and once as separate category. Can you adjust that?

>15 RidgewayGirl: I think the way to do it is just to vote on all the suggestions that people put together after seeing the results of the preliminary vote. Otherwise we just end up with your personal interpretation of the preliminary voting results, which means you personally picking and choosing which votes to disregard. E.g., the vote about whether UK and Ireland should be separate from Western Europe was a YES result, even if a very close one, but you didn't present a single option where that was a separate category. And you did present an option combining all Anglophone countries, even though there was a clear NO vote (10-23) to combining the UK with the US and Canada. So it gives the impression that some decisions are being cavalierly dismissed, just based on your own discretion rather than the group input.

I apologize for being disruptive, and I do appreciate everything you do to facilitate this process! I'll try to do better at staying away this time :)

>17 _Zoe_: Ok, I've removed Option Three. Thank you for calling my attention to it. I had asked for people to please present suggestions and no one did so, so I went back over the previous options and did my best. Yes, I did respect the previous votes we took. I really am unwilling to have this become contentious. I am not trying to personally interpret anything - which is why I asked for others to please help out. I am sorry I did something wrong. This may just be easier and if so, let's do it. Are there any other problems anyone can see? I cannot guarantee that my own biases will come into unconscious play and I'm not interested in either bending all of this to my will or giving the impression that I am doing so.

How long would we like this vote to last? Would someone else please give a timeframe. I will do my best to not make any decisions in the future and would appreciate being called to account if I overstep my bounds as facilitator.

>18 RidgewayGirl: Thank you for listening!

I voted not to ignore the previous votes, with the awareness that some of them are contradictory. I think everyone looked at the votes and tried to find a way to accommodate the spirit of them.

For me, the most important thing is not to ignore any options suggested by other people, as long as they were proposed after seeing the initial votes. So I would include, e.g., the three geography-based breakdowns suggested by DeltaQueen in the previous thread, even if she doesn't have a chance to post again and repeat them before Monday.

>19 _Zoe_: Someone will need to post them in order for them to be added to the vote, if the vote in >18 RidgewayGirl: passes. It would be helpful if each had a brief explanation of how they differ from other suggestions as well. If they aren't reposted, I'm not going to go and find them.

Also, how long will the vote in >18 RidgewayGirl: go on? Would you prefer a few days or a full week?

edited to add: if I missed three suggestions that didn't contradict the previous votes, I was clearly not paying any attention when I posted them!

Maybe until Wednesday? We do need to move on.

I think it's important to acknowledge that the previous votes are self-contradictory. That doesn't mean we have to ignore them and start from scratch, it just means that no proposal will be "perfect". So I don't think it was necessary to delete your third proposal, as long as you don't try to disallow other people's proposals that also aren't perfect.

Okay, vote will be open until Wednesday. On Thursday morning, if the vote passes, any additional suggestions can be added, including ones from the previous thread. In that case, we will take an addition four days to collect more suggestions, all of which will be voted on beginning on October 15th.

If the vote does not pass, the options in >9 RidgewayGirl:, >10 _Zoe_: and >14 Tanya-dogearedcopy: as well as any further suggestions that take into account the results of the votes (summarized in >1 RidgewayGirl:, but I encourage everyone to go back to the previous thread and take a look at those votes for yourself), will be put up for voting on October 8th.

Once these final votes to determine the categories are underway, we will tackle whether or not we want to have focus themes, and if so, how we would structure them. We should be able to work on this while voting is underway, with votes going on simultaneously, as they should not affect each other.

I kept having to look back at the previous thread, so I'm going to copy the poll results here. Let me know if you see any typos or omissions.

26-2-0
YES: Australia and New Zealand should be it's own category, with the rest of Oceania moved into the "Islands and Bodies of Water" category.

3-24-3
NO: The categories should be the same as last time we did the GeoCAT.

23-9-1
YES: I would like the categories to be less Western-centric, so as to give more opportunity to read globally.

10-23-0
NO: The UK should be included with Canada and the USA, in order to minimize categories of books we'd just read anyways.

19-5-5
YES: "Polar Regions" and "Islands and Bodies of Water" should be combined into one category.

18-7-5
YES: I would like three categories to be located in Asia.

15-14-2
YES: The UK and Ireland should form their own category outside of Western Europe.

NOTE: There are some problems here.

1) We want to add two categories but remove only one.

2) We want to make the reading less Western-centric, but we also want to eliminate non-English-speaking countries from the month including Australia, and we want to add an extra month for the UK and Ireland, and we don't want to combine the UK with Canada and the US.

This means that every proposal will appear to violate at least one of the voting results, so we should just aim at getting as close as we can to the spirit of the votes.

We either look at the previous votes and decide they can't stand and vote YES in >18 RidgewayGirl:, or we decide to live with the contradictions and respect the votes, in which case a NO vote will carry.

Your argument in favor of a YES vote in >24 _Zoe_: is clear and people will certainly take it into account in deciding how to vote. If you find this insufficient, I am happy to turn this over to you. I'm confused as to how you would like to proceed.

>25 RidgewayGirl: I'd just like to proceed by voting on any complete suggestions that have been proposed, acknowledging that none will be "perfect" by the standard of the votes.

The votes are helpful guidelines, but if we try to produce a completely consistent set of voting results before moving on, we'll never get anywhere.

>14 Tanya-dogearedcopy: I've never seen or heard of the MENA acronym before, although I am aware of the similarity of the culture of some of the North African countries to that of the Middle Eastern countries, and of their big difference from the rest of Africa, and was so even as I made that comment. (Probably I should not have been posting when I was tired and unable to think clearly and express myself.) I'm willing to accept that it is a natural pairing. But I still want another Africa region. A single "sub-Saharan" region is simply too big. I don't know the best division, however. Interior vs Coastal? East vs West? South vs Central (North being in the MENA region)?

>18 RidgewayGirl: Please re-post Option 3 - it was my favorite

>24 _Zoe_: Thank you for this post. I was trying to do the same analysis last night, but was simply too tired to draw any conclusions or express my thoughts concisely.

>15 RidgewayGirl: Assuming that the "idea" you are referring to is the no US-UK-Canada suggestion, here is my proposed Option 7 (focus on non-western cultures/locations, or at least non-Anglo/American)

*Mexico and Central America
*South America
*Australia and New Zealand
*Western Europe, excluding UK & Ireland
*Eastern Europe and Russia
*Eastern Asia
*South Asia
*Central Asia/Silk Road
*Middle East/North Africa
*Sub-Saharan Africa #1
*Sub-Saharan Africa #2
*Islands & Bodies of Water and/or Polar Regions

Option 8 (trying to focus more on non-Western places, while retaining majority desire to isolate UK/Ireland and Australia/NZ)

*North America (Canada + US + Mexico)
*Central and South America
*UK & Ireland
*Western Europe
*Eastern Europe and Russia
*Australia & NZ
*Eastern Asia
*Southern Asia
*Central Asia
*Middle East & North Africa
*Sub-Saharan Africa #1
*Sub-Saharan Africa #2

Islands & Bodies of Water and Polar Regions can be included in their closest major land regions, if desired.

Note, I keep including Russia with Eastern Europe rather than an Asian region. Despite the fact that the majority of Russian territory is located in Asia, the bulk of Russian life and culture is in its European west. Russia's Asian territory is comparatively sparsely populated. I think this makes the most sense, and reserves our Asian regions for more highly populated areas.

>27 sjmccreary: >28 sjmccreary: I like your options with two sub-Saharan Africa months. I hosted sub-Saharan Africa last time. There are three regions with strong literary traditions - East, West, and South, with major publishing centers in Kenya, Nigeria, and South Africa.

>27 sjmccreary: If you want it included, please add it.

Would everyone take the time to look over the suggestions so far so as to make sure there aren't duplicates, especially when wording is slightly different?

#30. I don't remember the details of it, or I would.

>31 sjmccreary: Ok. I pulled all that off of the previous thread. If it's no longer there, I'm not sure how to retrieve it.

>32 RidgewayGirl: Oh, I thought it was one you put together yourself. Here is the retrieved Option 3:

* North America (Canada & the U.S.)
* Mexico and Central America
* South America
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe
* Northern Africa
* Sub-Saharan Africa
* Central Asia (The Silk Road)
* South East Asia
* Far East Asia
* Australia & New Zealand
* Islands, Bodies of Water &
Polar Regions

Edit: Well, I thought this was the correct list, but it seems to be identified as Option 1 in this thread. I've gone back to the other thread and looked again, but can't pick out the one that was listed as Option 3 here, so unless someone else can identify it, we'll just have to forget the deleted Option 3 and come up with a final list without that help.

Pardon me if I seem dense today (last several days, actually), but can someone remind me what we are in the process of deciding right now - because it's my impression that we will not begin voting on the different lists until later in the week, correct?

The main thing I remember about the deleted one is that it combined Canada, the US, and the UK into one month, possibly with Australia and New Zealand as well.

>34 _Zoe_: Thanks for the hint! I think I know which one that was. I'll copy and post it tomorrow.

I'm open for almost any option, so I stopped posting to the discussion and then discovered that you have the continuation topic. So I'm here, still interested, and amazed that so many of you have the patience to participate in this discussion. I'm going back to my corner to await further developments.

I'll hide in that corner with you LoisB.

LOL, Sometimes I'm not really clear as to what exactly is going on, so I wait it out a little bit (and don't post); and trust the process to keep it going :-)

I am looking forward to this Cat and I really have no strong feelings about any of the options, but I am looking forward to the voting and finalizing so I can start the actual book planning.

>39 DeltaQueen50: I'm itching to get started on book planning, too!

Trying again to restore Option #3, More emphasis on non-Western World:

* UK/Ireland/US/Canada/NZ/Australia
* Mexico & Central America
* South America
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe and Russia
* Central Asia
* Southern Asia
* Eastern Asia
* Northern Africa & Middle East
* Southern Africa
* Islands & Bodies of Water
* Polar Regions

This is only 10 months, so we'd need to come up with 2 more. I don't remember what was being suggested as part of the original Option 3.

Edit: increase to 12 categories and add descriptive title phrase for voting

>40 sjmccreary: I think that option #3 had Islands & Bodies of Water and Polar Regions as the last 2 categories

I enjoy the process, even though I'm mainly just reading the threads and voting. Like DQ50, I also have no strong feelings about any of the options. Looking forward to book planning with the winning one.

Final voting begins tomorrow morning. We really are almost done. For those of you who have posted suggestions, please make sure that they are ready to be copied into a voting format -- like that in >9 RidgewayGirl:, with a few words explaining how this option differs from the others, and that there are twelve categories. I'm not going to have time to proofread, so it is up to you. I'm going to just copy what's there. If something is missing, now is the time to correct it!

Well, at least I made it in time for the final vote!

G'ah! I missed that this thread had started! Now to catch up...

>38 Tanya-dogearedcopy: haha! I'm feeling a bit confused, as well! I do know a couple things I do or don't want included/not included, so I'll just wait for the options to vote and hope I can get at least one option with both my "requirements" of what I'd like to see. :-)

And I see I found the thread at a good time - just before we vote!

>40 sjmccreary: In addition to >41 leslie.98: (you could combine the two), you could also separate out Australia/New Zealand. No idea if that has anything to do with the option 3 you are remembering, but separating out Australia/NZ seem(ed/s) to be popular.

ETA: Didn't I say I was going to sit back and just vote.... :-)

>41 leslie.98: I think you might be right about that. For the final version as directed in >43 RidgewayGirl:, I'll put those in.

>43 RidgewayGirl: Thanks for the heads-up. I think I have my suggestions ready to go.

>48 LibraryCin: Yes, that was a popular option, to put Australia/NZ in a month of their own, but as I recall the purpose of this option was to minimize focus on the western world, or at least the English-speaking portion of it. Did you see my option #7 at >27 sjmccreary:, or #8 at >28 sjmccreary:? Do either of those come close to what you are thinking about?

It's finally time to vote. There are several options, so take the time to read through all of them carefully. Vote YES for any option you'd be happy with. I'd suggest limiting yourself to three, but if you are having trouble doing that, remember that votes are anonymous, and so you can vote YES for as many as you want. NO votes will count ONLY in the case of a tie. Please ask questions, and remember that you can change your vote anytime until voting closes on Sunday night.

There are nine options. I have simply copied whatever was listed in the above posts, with no editing or alteration. Each stand as they are.

Voting closes late on October 18th, with votes counted in the early hours of October 19th (I'm on CET, so I'm up when the west coasters are heading to bed). Vote by October 18th.

At the end of all the options, there will be a few more votes on set up, so stick around to the end. While there are many options, they aren't drastically different from one another, so I think we'll all be able to make what we end up with work. Happy voting!

Option One.

* North America (Canada & the U.S.)
* Mexico and Central America
* South America
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe
* Northern Africa
* Sub-Saharan Africa
* Central Asia (The Silk Road)
* South East Asia
* Far East Asia
* Australia & New Zealand
* Islands, Bodies of Water & Polar Regions

Option Two. (Omits Polar Regions as a category)

* North America (Canada, the U.S. and the Artic)
* Mexico and Central America
* South America including Antarctica
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe
* Northern Africa
* Sub-Saharan Africa
* Central Asia (The Silk Road)
* South East Asia
* Far East Asia
* Australia & New Zealand
* Islands and Bodies of Water

Option Three (Mexico included in with US and Canada)

* North America (Including Mexico)
* South America
* Central America and Caribbean
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe and Russia
* Eastern Asia
* Southern Asia
* Central Asia
* Australia & New Zealand
* Northern Africa and the Middle East
* Southern Africa
* Polar regions, Islands, Bodies of Water

Option Four. (Edited to add description: Geographical Regions with British Isles and Ireland having a month and Asia having three months; Polar Regions split between Canada/US and South America; Islands/Bodies of Water omitted (essentially scattered about according to geography))

* Canada, U.S.A., and Arctic
* Central America & Mexico
* South America including Antarctica
* The British Isles & Ireland
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe
* Middle East and Northern Africa
* Sub-Saharan Africa
* South Asia
* East Asia
* North and Central Asia
* Australia, New Zealand, and Oceania

Option Five.

* North America (Canada, the U.S.)
* Mexico and Central America
* South America
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe
* Middle East and Northern Africa
* Sub-Saharan Africa
* Central Asia ("The 'Stans")
* South East Asia
* Far East Asia
* Australia & New Zealand
* Arctic and Antarctica

This option adds the Arctic & Antarctic as it's own topic; removes the Arctic and antarctic from North America and South America respectively; Keeps the favored Australia & New Zealand region; Maintains the favored three Asian regions ("Central Asia" can also be "The Silk Road" if reader(s) prefer); Adds North Africa to the Middle East; Allows reader(s) to assign Islands and/or Bodies of Water to whatever country or area as they see fit.

Option Six. (focus on non-western cultures/locations, or at least non-Anglo/American)

*Mexico and Central America
*South America
*Australia and New Zealand
*Western Europe, excluding UK & Ireland
*Eastern Europe and Russia
*Eastern Asia
*South Asia
*Central Asia/Silk Road
*Middle East/North Africa
*Sub-Saharan Africa #1
*Sub-Saharan Africa #2
*Islands & Bodies of Water and/or Polar Regions

Option Seven. (trying to focus more on non-Western places, while retaining majority desire to isolate UK/Ireland and Australia/NZ)

*North America (Canada + US + Mexico)
*Central and South America
*UK & Ireland
*Western Europe
*Eastern Europe and Russia
*Australia & NZ
*Eastern Asia
*Southern Asia
*Central Asia
*Middle East & North Africa
*Sub-Saharan Africa #1
*Sub-Saharan Africa #2

Option Eight.

* North America (Canada & the U.S.)
* Mexico and Central America
* South America
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe
* Northern Africa
* Sub-Saharan Africa
* Central Asia (The Silk Road)
* South East Asia
* Far East Asia
* Australia & New Zealand
* Islands, Bodies of Water & Polar Regions

Option Nine. More emphasis on non-Western World:

* UK/Ireland/US/Canada/NZ/Australia
* Mexico & Central America
* South America
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe and Russia
* Central Asia
* Southern Asia
* Eastern Asia
* Northern Africa & Middle East
* Southern Africa
* Islands & Bodies of Water
* Polar Regions

With a YES vote indicating that you would like a focus topic for each month, with the understanding that we will have to figure out how that will look. A NO vote indicates that you would not be interested in a focus topic each month, and an UNDECIDED vote indicating that you would like more discussion on the issue.

For the following three votes, please vote YES only ONCE.A YES vote indicates that you are happy with the order of the categories as presented above, so that the first item on the lists (usually some variation of N. America) will be in January, etc...

A YES vote indicates that you would like whichever list we choose to be randomly scrambled. This will mean that we won't, for example, be reading three months in a row of books set in Asia or the Americas. The order of the monthly categories will be determined by random chance.

A YES vote indicates that you would like the group as a whole to determine together in which order the monthly categories should fall.

And that's it for now. Vote, and then check back to see if more votes have appeared. We're in the final stretch!

>64 RidgewayGirl: Thanks for all the effort you put in to this!

Here's my thought on the ordering: motivation is always high in January, so it doesn't make sense to put the easiest month first.

Options One and Eight are exactly the same, or am I missing something?

For Option 1/8, would we just be skipping the Middle East entirely?

>68 _Zoe_:

Good question. I'd like to know the answer to that, too.

I just copied all the suggestions as they appeared. Ask the person who posted?

Ok, I didn't notice the Middle East was missing from that one. Perhaps it's intended to be with Central Asia? Unclear...

Well, I've voted, and it looks like my favorite options are some of the least popular! So I thought I'd explain where I'm coming from, just in case I can persuade anyone else to my opinion. :)

1. In general, I like the options that include Mexico with Central America rather than with Canada/U.S., because that seems to be a better cultural fit.

2. I also like the options with three Asia categories, because my biggest issue the last time we did GeoCAT was that there didn't seem to be a month for all those former Soviet bloc countries in Asia (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, etc).

3. I prefer the options that don't have Polar Regions as a separate month. It seems to me that there aren't a lot of choices for novels set in those regions, and those who do want to read books about the polar regions could do so in the North America month (for the Arctic) and the South America month (for Antarctica). But I'd be fine with a monthly category that includes Polar Regions along with Islands & Bodies of Water.

EDITED TO ADD: It looks like Option 1 and Option 8 are the same! Compare >51 RidgewayGirl: and >58 RidgewayGirl:.

>72 christina_reads: They are the same... Isn't it interested that the votes are different.

Yes, I just copied the suggestions as they were listed. I asked everyone to make sure that their suggestions were ready to be copied as is, but it looks like that didn't happen.

I have noticed from previous votes that the first option is usually favored.

Just like in presidential elections.

I don't know who came up with the first one, but if it's chosen maybe we could do a poll about adding in the Middle East somewhere.

It's definitely interesting to see the different votes for two identical suggestions! :D

>77 _Zoe_: I voted Undecided on the second one because I thought they were the same but then thought I might have missed a subtle variation.

Isn't the Middle East represented in the Silk Road?

>79 majkia:

Not in my mind. The Silk Road is more Central Asia, I think.

>78 sturlington: Ah, that makes sense!

>79 majkia: Thanks for that clarification; I guess that was probably the intention. There are parts of the Middle East that aren't on the Silk Road (e.g., the Arabian Peninsula), but it's probably close enough. Phew!

>77 _Zoe_: I thought this would be the final vote (poll)!

Another question on suggestion 1/8: as it is not stated separately, where would Russia go?

>82 LoisB: You're right! I guess I'll just interpret the list as I see fit ;)

>83 Chrischi_HH: I think the idea is for Russia to be part of Eastern Europe?

I voted no to both 1 and 8 so am glad to know that I was consistent. I opposed them because of not specifically including the middle east and too much emphasis on some other areas.

I will be able to work with whatever format we end up with but for now I voted for Option 3 and Option 6. I like that the Caribbean was included in Option 3, I also like that the Middle East was put in with North Africa in both Option 3 and 6 as I feel this is a natural fit. The Polar Regions are not very important to me so I like them being placed with Bodies of Water and Islands. Also I really like that Option 6 offers a third month to read about Africa.

I hate to muddy the waters any further, but I don't believe that the Option 8 described in >28 sjmccreary: is thw same as the Option 8 listed in the voting.

I noticed the similarity and was trying to determine the difference between 1 and 8. I got fed up scrolling up and scrolling down - and losing track of where I was, so I voted yes to both.

I also prefer options 3 and 6 for their emphasis on the wider world. I have absolutely no problem fitting in books set in English-speaking places in my regular challenge!

I like that option 3 includes the Middle East and that polar regions are integrated with islands and bodies of water. What I don't like, is that Mexico is in the North America category instead of Central America. Here I prefer option 1/8. But hey, it will never be perfect, and I am sure I can live with the final vote, whatever it will be. :)

My top priority was to choose an option that eliminated Islands and Polar Regions entirely, because I feel like the first is too much of a jumble and the second is too narrow. But then I went back and voted on second-choice options when I realized neither of my first picks would win :)

I voted but I'll go with what the majority chooses. I am going to participate if it fits in with my monthly reading or I have something on my TBR stack that matches.

For me, it isn't too important which option wins. I'll be participating if at all possible. Searching for a suitable book and reading about somewhere different is always fun.

I have definite ideas about which elements I think are most desirable, and which should be excluded. However, I absolutely agree that the most important thing will simply be the pleasure of finding books to fit each month. Looking forward to the results!

I'm finding it interesting - and frustrating - that, in the last thread, we voted overwhelmingly to NOT have the same themes as last year and yet the options that lead the voting are virtually identical to last year's list.

Option 3 is in the lead. The main difference from last year is that islands and polar have been combined and a 3rd Asia region is added. Plus Mexico is moved from C America to N America and Oceania is taken away from Aus/NZ. That's it.

Option 1, in 2nd place, is even closer to last year's list. It leaves Mexico in C America.

We also voted decisively that we wanted less emphasis on the Western cultures, and yet all the options that actually de-emphasize those places are getting hardly any votes.

So what are we doing? Are we even listening to ourselves? Are we going along, just giving lip service to every new suggestion that comes along without any real intention of actually changing anything?

Edit: there is still a week left to vote. And feel free to chime in with thoughts about this apparent disconnect.

Welcome to the democratic process, Sandy. I would have liked one of the two options that gave three months to Africa attract more votes, but I think that means I need to make more of an effort myself.

>96 RidgewayGirl: I get the democratic process thing. That is what I found interesting. The same thing happens in our national politics. Individually people complain and call for change but vote to send the same people back to Washington year after year. It's just as frustrating in that arena as here.

Edit: I think you nailed it with the comment about what requires more personal effort. So, we're in favor of change as long as we don't personally have to make any extra effort to accomplish it?

I understand that in the national political arena. We might all agree that government spending should be cut, just as long as the particular program that benefits me isn't reduced.

But we're talking about books and reading here. Something we all love. We all claim to enjoy finding new and interesting things. LibraryThing has easy ways of finding books that meet different criteria. No one is being asked to read genres they don't like. Just find something with some kind of connection to a physical place.

I think the elimination of the focus topics should do a lot to encourage broader reading. Moving Mexico to North America is also a significant change in that regard.

I don't think a vote for change necessarily means dramatic change that eliminates everything familiar. I'm certainly much happier to have gone through the process and considered the options than I would have been if we'd just unthinkingly duplicated everything we did last time.

And I say this even though neither of my top picks is going to be chosen.

ETA: And even though I actively dislike one of the top contenders (#1), which basically excludes Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, UAE, etc. I guess in a pinch those could be pushed into "Bodies of Water", but that means they'll miss out on any focused contextual discussion.

Thinking back to how I voted, I wanted something completely different!!! That is, I voted for the physical geography (landscape) option. However, since we are going with this version, me - I didn't want to lower the Western options, so I believe I have been consistent (though it may not seem that way for change/then ending up with similar). My "change" was quite different, as it wasn't "locations" that I wanted to change, it was the type of geography.

That's just how my thinking has gone, anyway. And maybe some others, as well, which might help explain why the top options do look similar to last year.

>95 sjmccreary: I understand this frustration, and as someone who voted for monthly themes that are quite similar to the 2013 GeoCAT, I wanted to try and explain my preferences. (I'm just now thinking this through, so I apologize if I'm somewhat incoherent.) In the previous thread, there were suggestions for monthly themes based on cultural similarities or physical features rather than on strict political geography. While I thought those ideas were interesting, I also thought they would make it a lot harder to find books that fit, which is why I preferred a geographical division. And once the group voted to stick with a geographical division, it really does seem most logical to divide things broadly by continent and by widely recognized subcategories (such as the Middle East, Southeast Asia, etc).

Generally speaking, I do think that having multiple tiers of voting can be confusing and lead to contradictory results (as several people have already mentioned). Perhaps in future years, we could just do one round of voting, which could make the end results more consistent. For example, once we decide we're doing a GeoCAT, anyone who has an idea for how to structure it can post that idea, and it will become one of the options in the vote. The down side of this is that the person would have to have a fully-formed notion of how to structure the CAT (for example: January is mountainous regions, February is deserts, etc). But maybe this practice will enable more diversity of suggestions for how to structure the CAT, which could lead to more change in the future.

I think as much as people like to talk about big changes when it comes right down to it small changes are often the ones we are the most comfortable with. I personally would have been happiest with Option 6 or 7, but I can see that Option 3 may well be the best fit for most people.

For example Option 3 gives us the choice of reading a book from the U.S. or Canada or going for Mexico and excluding the more Westernized countries. It also has not excluded the U.K. and Ireland if people wish to read about those countries, but for those who do not, there are plenty of other choices in Western Europe. Also Option 3 has kept the Polar Regions as a viable alternative to Islands/Bodies of Water and vice versa instead of eliminating them.

However we vote, it's going to be fun to see the final result! :)

>98 _Zoe_: Moving Mexico to North America is meaningful, it allows anyone who wants to to ignore USA and Canada. Adding the 3rd Asia category is also a big change. Perhaps I'm confusing the overwhelming response to do something different with a desire for an "overwhelming" difference. I would be willing to accept adding Middle East to Northern Africa if option 1 wins, so maybe the rest of the group would as well.

>99 LibraryCin: This is a reasonable explanation, and one I had not considered. However, I don't believe it applies to most people since the support for those "alternative" geographies was so small.

>100 christina_reads: So let me ask you, did you vote to oppose having the same themes as before? Or did you want an exact repeat of the 2014 GeoCAT? I also preferred the geographical divisions, and for the same reasons you give. But there are lots of different ways the continental regions can be divided. I like the tiered voting - it lets the group refine and shape the details in ways that respond to the interim votes and discussion, and which no one might have supported if they had been presented in the beginning.

When the group voted to focus more on non-Western areas, I was hoping for more Asia (which it looks like we will get), more Africa, more South America, and less Anglo/American places. We could have done it easily by eliminating some of the marginal "regions" like islands, bodies of water, and polar regions and by consolidating the English speakers. Still a geographically based challenge, but much different than before. I actually voted "undecided" on the question about whether to have the same themes as before. I was willing to do it if that was majority wish. But when the vote was so overwhelmingly NO, then I accepted that it would look quite different. Except that's not how it's turning out.

edit: >101 DeltaQueen50: Judy, I didn't refresh the screen from earlier in the day before I posted and missed your comments. You make a good point about big changes vs small changes. I also favored option 6 or 7, but (as I stated in >94 sjmccreary: above) the main thing is still finding books to fit the topics. Still, though, I find it interesting that there is such a difference between what the group said it wanted and what it is choosing.

>102 sjmccreary: I think you hit the nail on the head with the distinction between an overwhelming desire for some change and a desire for overwhelming change. I think it was important to refine the challenge and make sure we were acting deliberately, but that doesn't mean I wanted a major overhaul. Similarly, I think it's important to vote on all CATs every year, even if RandomCAT keeps being chosen—I just see no benefit to automatically repeating what we've done in the past.

>102 sjmccreary: I don't think I voted to repeat the previous GeoCAT, but I won't mind if we end up with something quite similar to it. I think the important thing is that, as >103 _Zoe_: stated, we had the chance to introduce and talk about alternative structures for the CAT, even if we don't ultimately change things very much. I do agree with you in preferring "more Asia...more Africa, more South America, and less Anglo/American places," and option #6 is my personal favorite.

My "change" wishes were the same as LibraryCin and also because there was not a significant change, I am wanting a focus that was balanced with some Western or Anglo options.

I wanted polar regions. That was my bottom line. Possibly this is important to me because I live in Florida, lol.

I also wanted polar regions because it gives me an opportunity to read about them and I rarely do.

I'm going to chime in and mention that I was actually surprised that Option 5, the one that I proposed, didn't garner more support. I put it together with the previous votes and comments in mind; and I didn't think it was either too radical or too much the same. That said, it's not a hill I'm willing to die on! And while this may paint me as lacking in conviction, it's also a nod to pragmatism.

I'm going to be tailoring my reading slightly different from the official category (e.g. If Option 1 were to be voted in, I'm going to include the Middle East along with North Africa.) I'm doing this, not in defiance of the group's votes; but expanding the parameters of the category slightly; and hopefully provide more meaningful comments about Syria for instance, while others may be talking about Egypt. On a similar note, I plan on being very flexible about about "Bodies of Water." In my mind, this could be interpreted as port of origin; destination ports; or whatever... So, 'Kidnapped!' (by Robert Louis Stevenson) could be filed under Scotland/UK if I wanted to, rather than in a catch-all category, while I put a book about Shackleton's Voyage under Polar Regions. I view this challenge not as a strict set of rules; but more like guidelines.

I like the sentiment expressed here about not confusing "overwhelming response to do something different with a desire for an "overwhelming" difference." Perhaps progress is best seen in this context, not in revolutionary acts; but in evolutionary acts. I think it will be different enough from the last time (exploring more of Asia,) and give us all some food for thought next year if another GEO Cat is voted in (Perhaps next year will be less Asia and more Africa?)

I like the tiered voting, as it eliminates the sort of "all or nothing" zealotry that can infiltrate discussions.

I was very happy with the 2014 GeoCAT, so major changes weren't necessary for my enjoyment. My concern is the availability of books in my local library system. The further we go from the Anglo-speaking world, the less likely I am to find available material.

ETA: Of course, I've made it harder on myself by adding an Awards focus, since AwardsCAT was not one of the winning categories.

I also wanted the polar regions included. I voted no to all options that didn't include them or lumped them in a larger category. I'd be okay with any option but 2 or 4.

I'm one who didn't want a 3rd Africa month. I think the addition of Mexico to North America does make it possible for those who want a less Anglo option to have it. That's why I voted for option 3.

>102 sjmccreary: Yes, you are right about not too many people voting for the alternative geographical areas, so you're probably right. It's probably not an explanation for most people

I also like the tiered voting system, as it meant that I felt comfortable voting for the geographic regions I wanted once I knew my preferred landscape option was eliminated. Of course, that's just me... :-)

And yes >101 DeltaQueen50: you are probably correct about big vs small changes. That tends to be the case in politics, too, doesn't it? People say they want change and when change gets voted in, they get all upset at some of the changes the new politicians want to bring in!

>106 majkia: and >107 luvamystery65: I also wanted the polar regions to remain. :-) In some way, shape or form, anyway!

I just wanted to post the link to the "Fiction By Location" wiki that I set up to help people find books set in other countries when we were doing this challenge a couple of years ago. I want to encourage you to add to it to help others!

Fiction wiki: http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/FictionLocation

Non-fiction wiki: http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/Non-Fiction_Location

>114 thornton37814: Thanks! This will help me a lot.

>114 thornton37814: Thanks, Lori! I love those two wikis and had forgotten that you set them up. I have been continuing to add to them these past few years.

It's not surprising to me that opinions evolve and change as we discuss things which also may make the earlier polls less reflective of current opinion.

>116 streamsong: I only set up the fiction one. Someone else did the non-fiction one. I just posted the link to it for convenience.

>114 thornton37814: Thanks, Lori. That's really useful. When I set up the general thread, after all the votes have been counted and volunteers for each month found, I'll include those links at the start of the thread.

>118 RidgewayGirl: Thanks! I just thought some people may be beginning to make plans for their reading.

>114 thornton37814: Thanks for these links. I bookmarked your post and hopefully will be able to find it again next year when I need it!

>114 thornton37814:
Those are excellent - thanks! I meant to just bookmark, but I just realized I've spent half an hour adding to them. Oops.

Regarding the voting, since I'll be using this CAT for "non-English" reads, I voted for number 6, but any of them can be molded to fit what I want to do. I'm just happy we're having this CAT again - it's my favorite. :)

>114 thornton37814: Thanks Lori. Those links were so helpful then and they'll be just as great next year.

>120 mamzel: I do have the link to the fiction one on my page, and there is a link to the non-fiction one on the fiction page. Hopefully your bookmarks will do the trick.

>121 -Eva-: Thanks for adding to them! I know I should be adding more to them than I did after the challenge that year. I'll try to go through my reads and make sure any that fit are added.

>122 majkia: You're welcome!

This has nothing to do with the voting but I was wondering this morning: where does Turkey fit in? Is it Asian & if so, does it go in "South Asia"? Or is it Eastern Europe?

>124 leslie.98: Yours is one of many countries that will come up for discussion. :) I would suggest that we try to use the same divisions we used in the 2014 GeoCAT, so we don't have to go through it again.

>124 leslie.98: I would imagine Turkey could go with the Middle East, Central Asia, or Europe since it's an EU country, depending on what our final categories look like.

>126 christina_reads: Turkey is not an EU member.

I looked at the 2014 GeoCAT as >125 LoisB: suggested -- they had Turkey in with the Middle East & North Africa. That makes some sense to me -- the countries that formerly belonged to the Ottoman empire.

>127 RidgewayGirl: Oh, I thought it was...oops. *blush* But it would still fit in either Middle East or Central Asia, I'd think.

I also work on my Reading Globally group challenge and Turkey's grouped in the Middle East there so that's probably what I'm going to stick with on this. I'm really looking forward to this CAT - hopefully, I'll knock a few more countries off my RG list! The threads in that group are a really good source of book ideas for any of you that don't frequent it - especially the regional threads linked to in the group description.

http://www.librarything.com/groups/readinggloballyficti

>129 christina_reads: I was unsure enough about whether I was right as to go and look it up first - which is to say, that's an easy mistake to make.

And if you like mysteries there is this amazing thread:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/123240

>126 christina_reads: >131 RidgewayGirl: That's okay! My knee-jerk reaction was "No! You're thinking of Libya!" Then I realized I was thinking of NATO. And then that Libya isn't a part of NATO either; but that Turkey is... :-D

I still have trouble knowing what is part of the UK! I haven't even tried to memorize EU or NATO.

*bump*

Assuming that Option 3 is going to be the winner I started my GeoCAT planning, focusing on Award winners . . .

* North America (Including Mexico) Shadow Country, Vernon God Little
* South America Love in the Time of Cholera
* Central America and Caribbean A Brief History of Seven Killings: A Novel
* Western Europe Days in the History of Silence, The Gathering
* Eastern Europe and Russia The Tiger: A True Story of Vengeance and Survival
* Eastern Asia ? Age of Ambition: Chasing Fortune, Truth, and Faith in the New China ?
* Southern Asia The White Tiger
* Central Asia Shadow of the Silk Road
* Australia & New Zealand The Secret River
* Northern Africa and the Middle East ? The English Patient ?
* Southern Africa Disgrace: A Novel
* Polar regions, Islands, Bodies of Water Ice Bound

In some cases, I used the term "award" loosely and settled for " NY Times Best Seller 2xxx". But, I'm happy that I have a plan!

>136 LoisB: Given all the awards it has won and how everyone who has read it has found it excellent, I'm looking at A Brief History of Seven Killings as well. I wonder if it would be worthwhile to see if a few more people are interested and getting a small group read going?

>137 RidgewayGirl: It seems perfect for the Caribbean read. I've never done a group read, but would be interested. Once we decide which month it will be, I can try to schedule it.

>136 LoisB: I might be interested in a group read of Love in the Time of Cholera.

>139 cbl_tn: OK. I will track interest and see what develops.

POSSIBLE GeoCAT GROUP READS

A Brief History of Seven Killings - Caribbean - 2015 Booker Prize

LoisB
Ridgeway Girl

Love in the Time of Cholera South America (Columbia) - New York Times Best Books of the Year (1988)

LoisB
cbl_tn
majkia

>136 LoisB: >139 cbl_tn: I'd join in on that too.

>142 majkia: you're in.

I won't join in Love in the Time of Cholera as I just reread it this year, but wanted to add that in terms of awards, the author Gabriel Garcia Marquez won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1982.

>144 leslie.98: Yes, that's how I found the book. I was trying to focus on books that won an award rather than authors who won. I was going to go with an author award if I couldn't find a specific work.

>145 LoisB: Just wanted to put the info out there in case anyone didn't know. I think my focus is going to be to read books by Nobel Laureates from the region (gives me some wiggle room). Like you (in #136), I was happy to start developing a plan but have only gotten to putting down possible authors for the most part -- you can see my plan in my thread if you want to take a peek.

So the results are in.

Option
1 11 YES votes
2 4 YES votes
3 18 YES votes
4 4 YES votes
5 9 YES votes
6 10 YES votes
7 8 YES votes
8 12 YES votes

So, Option three is our clear winner.

* North America (Including Mexico)
* South America
* Central America and Caribbean
* Western Europe
* Eastern Europe and Russia
* Eastern Asia
* Southern Asia
* Central Asia
* Australia & New Zealand
* Northern Africa and the Middle East
* Southern Africa
* Polar regions, Islands, Bodies of Water

In the remaining votes, there will be no focus themes and the categories will be randomly assigned.
We're ready to find volunteers for the categories. I entered the categories into a randomizer, which gave this order to the GeoCAT:

January tour guide: -Eva-, Destination: South America

February tour guide: mamzel, Destination:Central Asia

March tour guide: RidgewayGirl, Destination:Eastern Europe and Russia

April tour guide: luvamystery65, Destination:Polar regions, Islands, Bodies of Water

May tour guide: LoisB, Destination:North America (Including Mexico)

June tour guide: LibraryCin, Destination:Australia & New Zealand

July tour guide: sallylou61, Destination:Central America and Caribbean

August tour guide: DeltaQueen50, Destination:Southern Africa

September tour guide:, Destination:Southern Asia

October tour guide:, Destination:Eastern Asia

November tour guide: Kristelh, Destination:Northern Africa and the Middle East

December tour guide: Chrischi_HH, Destination:Western Europe

Now is the time to volunteer to host a month. Hosts will be assigned on a first come, first served basis, so if you've been thinking you might wast to lead a month for an area you're interested in, sign up quickly! Once all the months have been assigned, I'll open up a new GeoCAT general thread.

We've already got some suggested group reads going. Let's continue to discuss possible titles, and I'll add those to the months in the new thread.

Good job, guys. We made it through after all! And now the planners can plan and the spontaneous readers can settle down to enjoy the rest of the 2015 CATs.

I'll volunteer for North America in May.

I've started a wiki for this challenge. Anyone who wants to add to it, feel free! Any changes desired, please put them in or let me know.

http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/2016CC_GeoCAT

Thanks, majkia.

LoisB, I've added you, as well as myself.

I added the books that I am certain I will read to the Wiki.

I'll volunteer for South America in January.

I'll volunteer of Southern Africa in August.

I'll volunteer for April, Polar regions, Islands, Bodies of Water

I'm ready to host Western Europe.

I will volunteer for November.

I'd have to learn about it, but I'd be interested in hosting Australia and New Zealand.

I will volunteer for Central America and the Caribbean

Three categories left. All of Asia.

Could someone break-down which countries are in each category? I think that it would be easier to volunteer if we were clear which countries were involved!

Here's what I have for dividing Asia - please feel free to adjust.

Southern Asia:

Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Maldives, Myanmar, Nepal, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka.

Central Asia:

Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan



Eastern Asia:

Cambodia, China, Hong Kong, Japan, Laos, Macau, Malaysia, North Korea, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam

This division assumes that maritime countries like Indonesia and the Philippines are in the Islands and Bodies of Water category.

I will take February - Central Asia.

So I assume that the missing Asian countries will be part of North Africa & the Middle East? I mean countries like Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, etc.

>162 leslie.98: Yes, those form part of the Middle East.

>160 RidgewayGirl: This division assumes that maritime countries like Indonesia and the Philippines are in the Islands and Bodies of Water category

I'm hosting in April, Polar Regions, Islands and Bodies of Water. What is included apart from the Polar Regions? I want to make sure I get my month right.

>164 luvamystery65: Islands and bodies of water? There really isn't a right or a wrong way to introduce a category. Maybe stating that Asia is a body of water would be something people might disagree with, but in general, whatever you want to say is fine, along with not mentioning specific islands, mentioning only some islands, or exhaustively listing all of them.

If Southern Asia is still seeking a host, I will volunteer.

>165 RidgewayGirl: Okay I assumed any Island or body of water but since you mentioned specifically in >164 luvamystery65: that Indonesia and the Philippines are in the Islands and Bodies of Water category I wanted to make sure to highlight anything that fit but was not part of the other categories. Make sense?

Whoops, wrong thread!

>167 luvamystery65: I've been thinking about this - Islands and Bodies of Water won't include the Caribbean, as it has its own category, but it does include all the countries of Oceania, outside of NZ and Australia. We can include the island nations of Asia in with Eastern Asia, but that leaves the Islands and Bodies of Water consisting of only a few countries whose literature is less widely available, and Eastern Asia somewhat over-loaded.

I did look through to see which Asian island-nations should be part of the Islands and Bodies of Water category. They are:

Brunei
Cyprus
Indonesia
Maldives
Philippines
Timor-Leste

I'm not sure if Singapore is best put here, or with Eastern Asia. Sri Lanka culturally fits best with Southern Asia. Malaysia has a mainland as well as islands, so it seems best to include it with Eastern Asia.

What do you think?

I would put Singapore and Malaysia in Eastern Asia and agree with your other suggestions.

Don't forget Malta, Iceland and Greenland

And Madagascar!

Whoops. I put my intended island read on the wiki, but the book is set on the Shetland Islands of Scotland. Since the Shetland Islands is not an island country, should it belong to Western Europe, instead?

>173 countrylife: I feel like we should be a little loose with the Islands category. Any island should count, even if it is part of an area covered in another month, because all island stories share something in common.

Personally, I think we should be as flexible on that sort of thing as possible, and let folks interpret stuff the way they want to.

I agree with being flexible but I did want to "shout out" islands that aren't included anywhere in case someone wants to read something specific to there.

I think it would be nice if, when adding books to the wiki, we could also list the specific country where the book takes place or nationality of the author in parentheses. This would be helpful to anyone who might want to take up a country challenge or who's just curious about the exact setting.

I am so much in agreement with that, sturlington, that I did it even before you said it! I'd love to see everyone's particulars in case I want to match a read.

>177 sturlington: That is an excellent idea.

There is a new thread. The GeoCAT General Thread can be found here:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/200489