Tracing the origins of the ideas in literature throughout history: Can it be done?
Talk The Green Dragon
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1Jakeofalltrades
I was entertaining the notion of creating a book that traces the history of Story Ideas throughout history and how some ideas for books are similar to much older books.
Should I go for it, or let it be?
Should I go for it, or let it be?
2Jim53
TA, I think it's a fascinating topic. As always when you undertake something of this sort, you want to see who's already been there, so you can offer something new rather than duplicating previous work. One good starting place would be with Joseph Campbell, maybe with The Hero with a Thousand Faces, in which he traces heroic themes through several stories and cultures. This book was one of the first to popularize the study of comparative mythology, which isn't exactly what you're talking about but sounds pretty close. You can at least see how someone has treated a similar topic, and maybe get more pointers to works even closer to what you're thinking of.
3WholeHouseLibrary
Jim took the words right out of my mouth -- I was going to say almost exactly the same thing.
Can I put in a request for an autographed First Edition? Or maybe help you with the proof-reading? Mi englash iz gud; and im uh stikler fer grmmmir.
Can I put in a request for an autographed First Edition? Or maybe help you with the proof-reading? Mi englash iz gud; and im uh stikler fer grmmmir.
4Choreocrat
How to Kill a Dragon is a linguistic study of comparative mythology. Very interesting, and probably the best title ever for an academic work.
I remember being vaguely disappointed for all of 5 minutes when I realised that most stories were based on variations of Greek tragedies or comedies.
I remember being vaguely disappointed for all of 5 minutes when I realised that most stories were based on variations of Greek tragedies or comedies.
5MrsLee
In the book of Ecclesiastes, the author laments that there is "nothing new under the sun." But there sure is a lot of variety, and I think your subject could be fascinating, especially as approached from a fantasy/sci-fi/fiction point of view. I agree heartily with Jim, WHL and Will, research thoroughly what's been done, and it will make your work very interesting.
6Jakeofalltrades
I will probably have a chapter devoted to "Anime did it first" which explores how every idea in fiction has been done first by Manga and Anime.
Azuma's Yotsuba&! has a vaguely similar plot to Nick Hornby's About A Boy in that in Yotsuba&!, a young man has an adopted daughter, but in About a Boy, a similarly irresponsible man befriends a young boy who has a single mother.
Also, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen by Alan Moore has a similar idea stemming from some other guy who I don't remember his name. (bad research memory!)
And don't get me started on Eragon... yeeech!
Azuma's Yotsuba&! has a vaguely similar plot to Nick Hornby's About A Boy in that in Yotsuba&!, a young man has an adopted daughter, but in About a Boy, a similarly irresponsible man befriends a young boy who has a single mother.
Also, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen by Alan Moore has a similar idea stemming from some other guy who I don't remember his name. (bad research memory!)
And don't get me started on Eragon... yeeech!
7Jakeofalltrades
Wait a minute... About a Boy came BEFORE Yotsuba&!... I'm going to have to look into this "Young Father and Child" genre of fiction more, turns out even one of my books has a similar subplot!
8readafew
explores how every idea in fiction has been done first by Manga and Anime.
??? do you mean this exactly how is sounds?
According to Wiki the earliest Anime was around 1907, and Manga started after WWII. I would almost guarantee Anime and Manga take many stories from fiction first.
Maybe I'm just completely misunderstanding what your talking about.
??? do you mean this exactly how is sounds?
According to Wiki the earliest Anime was around 1907, and Manga started after WWII. I would almost guarantee Anime and Manga take many stories from fiction first.
Maybe I'm just completely misunderstanding what your talking about.
9JPB
#4 well, there are only so many types of stories possible that are also interesting.
There's "person faces a dilemma"
There's "person goes on a quest"
There's "people want love, and get it (or don't)"
There's "something happens to a person, and they recover (or don't)"
There's "person must learn something, and faces some sort of obstacles to obtain that knowledge" (every whodunnit is this...)
There's "person encounters something fascinating, that may or may not change how they behave, think, etc."
There's "some technology or artifact someone has changes how people think/act/etc" or the "desire" for that artifact changes them.
etc...
My point is, when you make this list generic enough, you can cover lots and lots of ground.
The joy is in the details of each story.
There's "person faces a dilemma"
There's "person goes on a quest"
There's "people want love, and get it (or don't)"
There's "something happens to a person, and they recover (or don't)"
There's "person must learn something, and faces some sort of obstacles to obtain that knowledge" (every whodunnit is this...)
There's "person encounters something fascinating, that may or may not change how they behave, think, etc."
There's "some technology or artifact someone has changes how people think/act/etc" or the "desire" for that artifact changes them.
etc...
My point is, when you make this list generic enough, you can cover lots and lots of ground.
The joy is in the details of each story.
10reading_fox
#9 I thought you could distil any novel down to 8 basic theme/plots that's why Jasper Fforde had so much fun with a 32plot operating system in Something rotten.
TA I'd be interested in who was first to specify 3 witches, why ghosts have to be headless (apart from Nick) etc
However this will be a lot of work - many of these ideas go back a long way, to biblical or prebiblical times.
TA I'd be interested in who was first to specify 3 witches, why ghosts have to be headless (apart from Nick) etc
However this will be a lot of work - many of these ideas go back a long way, to biblical or prebiblical times.
11Jakeofalltrades
3 witches dates back to Celtic Britain where the Triple Goddess was worshipped, Headless ghosts as far as I know date back to The Legend of Sleepy Hollow...
12angelikat
Well triumvirates date back long before the Celts, they appeared in Ancient Greece and before that there are some people who see the beginnings of the three in Ishtar and the story of Gilgamesh.
Headless ghost stories are also very old, there are examples in ancient Japan, Eastern Europe, and Native South American cultures.
Headless ghost stories are also very old, there are examples in ancient Japan, Eastern Europe, and Native South American cultures.
13Arctic-Stranger
I kind of thought Dostoyevsky wrote every novel imaginable in the The Brothers Karamazov.

