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3DugsBooks
At least a little time was spent on health care but few details. Trump,s panel of Bill Clinton wronged women accusers is over the top and sure to be heard from in the immediate future. Quite the response to the expose' of a fondness for fondling women.
4jjwilson61
I'm sick of hearing the talking point of why Hillary didn't fix all the problems in the world in her 30 years in politics. The obvious rejoinder is that Donald doesn't know shit about how gov't really works. Why can't she say that?
5davidgn
I'm literally nauseated. Horrified by both candidates, and even horrified by the moderators.
6theoria
Mr Trump said several remarkable things. First, he admitted he paid no taxes. Second, he backed the Assad/Putin bombing of children in Aleppo. Third, he said he would lock up his political opponent if given the opportunity, like a Putin.
It is clear he can't speak for more than thirty seconds on any topic before his mind wanders. The question about his tax plan elicited a non sequitur about NAFTA, followed by a disconnected personal attack on Ms Clinton, then a return to NAFTA, then something else having nothing to do with tax policy. Even his compliment of Ms Clinton as a fighter contradicted his claim that she had done nothing in thirty years.
Stalking Ms Clinton around the stage has she answered questions must have been a Bannon/Breitbart intimidation tactic. It surely backfired given his trouble over the video and his weak standing among women voters. The camera operator struggled to exclude him from any shot. Plus the sniffing.
Mr Trump did succeed in giving his base the red meat it hungers for. He recycled all the used ammo Republicans have been firing at Clinton(s) since 1992. Fortunately, his base is too small to prevent Ms Clinton from reaching 270 electoral votes.
It is clear he can't speak for more than thirty seconds on any topic before his mind wanders. The question about his tax plan elicited a non sequitur about NAFTA, followed by a disconnected personal attack on Ms Clinton, then a return to NAFTA, then something else having nothing to do with tax policy. Even his compliment of Ms Clinton as a fighter contradicted his claim that she had done nothing in thirty years.
Stalking Ms Clinton around the stage has she answered questions must have been a Bannon/Breitbart intimidation tactic. It surely backfired given his trouble over the video and his weak standing among women voters. The camera operator struggled to exclude him from any shot. Plus the sniffing.
Mr Trump did succeed in giving his base the red meat it hungers for. He recycled all the used ammo Republicans have been firing at Clinton(s) since 1992. Fortunately, his base is too small to prevent Ms Clinton from reaching 270 electoral votes.
7margd
>6 theoria: Even his compliment of Ms Clinton as a fighter contradicted his claim that she had done nothing in thirty years.
Plus Trump's compliment contradicted his claims that Clinton doesn't have the stamina to be president! 11 hours in front of Congressional committee, and now two 90-minute sessions on national tv with him.
Plus Trump's compliment contradicted his claims that Clinton doesn't have the stamina to be president! 11 hours in front of Congressional committee, and now two 90-minute sessions on national tv with him.
8Crypto-Willobie
>3 DugsBooks:
Trump's panel of Bill Clinton wronged women accusers is over the top and sure to be heard from in the immediate future. Quite the response to the expose of a fondness for fondling women.
Other way around. I think the Bill Cllnton-accuser panel was already on Trump's agenda for this debate, even if not in that precise form. The Dems had to come up with something similar on Trump to counter it with, and the Billy Bush videotape is what they found.
Btw, I had never heard of Billy Bush.
Trump's panel of Bill Clinton wronged women accusers is over the top and sure to be heard from in the immediate future. Quite the response to the expose of a fondness for fondling women.
Other way around. I think the Bill Cllnton-accuser panel was already on Trump's agenda for this debate, even if not in that precise form. The Dems had to come up with something similar on Trump to counter it with, and the Billy Bush videotape is what they found.
Btw, I had never heard of Billy Bush.
9proximity1
>6 theoria:
1) Mr Trump said several remarkable things. First, he admitted he paid no taxes.
I took this as a given. Spare me the shock and awe over Trump's having taken full advantage of the tax code. The business-loss write-off is used by Democrats and Republicans, alike. The Obamas and the Clintons and all their wealthy donors either do or would readily use it if their tax profile presented the occasion. The hypocrisy there is just dripping.
2) "Second, he backed the Assad/Putin bombing of children in Aleppo."
3) "Third, he said he would lock up his political opponent if given the opportunity, like a Putin."
Only Putin's more fortunate political (or other) opponents are "locked up." In the worst case, they're simply assassinated--poisoned, shot, etc. What Trump is saying is that, unlike Obama's "Justice" Dept., a Trump Justice Dept. would not present a shameless whitewash in this case of Clinton. Rank and file F.B.I. agents see the bureau's credibility in tatters. Their morale is terrible and they're ashamed of the director's flagrant violation of the norms of investigative procedures which these agents all learned and honored over their careers. To be put in jail, Clinton would first, of course, have to be charged, arraigned, plead and be tried and convicted. Nothing in Trump's words alters these facts. Putin's Russia is another matter so, no, not at all "like a Putin."
1) Mr Trump said several remarkable things. First, he admitted he paid no taxes.
I took this as a given. Spare me the shock and awe over Trump's having taken full advantage of the tax code. The business-loss write-off is used by Democrats and Republicans, alike. The Obamas and the Clintons and all their wealthy donors either do or would readily use it if their tax profile presented the occasion. The hypocrisy there is just dripping.
2) "Second, he backed the Assad/Putin bombing of children in Aleppo."
"On substance, some interesting things were actually said, especially on foreign policy. Trump’s criticism of Clinton’s record of arming rebel groups against dictators and making problems worse was a substantive one, whether you agree with it or not. The same went for his statement that we share enough anti-ISIS interests with Russia, Iran, and Syria to collaborate with them in the Middle East. Clinton, for her part, spoke knowledgeably, as always, about healthcare. No minds were changed, but Trump held his own." Thomas A. Frank, (Vanity Fair) Trump Takes the Debate to an Historic Low, and Revels in It : http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/10/second-presidential-debate-donald-trump-h...
3) "Third, he said he would lock up his political opponent if given the opportunity, like a Putin."
Only Putin's more fortunate political (or other) opponents are "locked up." In the worst case, they're simply assassinated--poisoned, shot, etc. What Trump is saying is that, unlike Obama's "Justice" Dept., a Trump Justice Dept. would not present a shameless whitewash in this case of Clinton. Rank and file F.B.I. agents see the bureau's credibility in tatters. Their morale is terrible and they're ashamed of the director's flagrant violation of the norms of investigative procedures which these agents all learned and honored over their careers. To be put in jail, Clinton would first, of course, have to be charged, arraigned, plead and be tried and convicted. Nothing in Trump's words alters these facts. Putin's Russia is another matter so, no, not at all "like a Putin."
10artturnerjr
I guess the thing that I was most struck by (even more than the general repugnant weirdness of Donald Trump, which, for better or worse, I've kind of gotten used to) was the level of seemingly very personal animosity between the two candidates. They didn't even shake hands before the debate! I don't think I've ever seen that before.
This seemed to be a little more even and a little more substantive than the last debate, and it seemed like Trump had done at least some prep work beforehand. I don't think it helped him significantly, however - he needs to win over see-sawing voters in Florida, North Carolina, etc., and not worry so much about firing up his base. It seems to me that he did far more of the latter than the former.
This seemed to be a little more even and a little more substantive than the last debate, and it seemed like Trump had done at least some prep work beforehand. I don't think it helped him significantly, however - he needs to win over see-sawing voters in Florida, North Carolina, etc., and not worry so much about firing up his base. It seems to me that he did far more of the latter than the former.
11theoria
>10 artturnerjr: What is noticeable about Trump is his communicative incoherence. His "prep" filled his head with things to say, which then came out of his mouth randomly. But even if one doesn't grade a presidential debate performance as if it were a graduate seminar discussion, his stalking, sniffing, and wheezing were a distraction. I have to believe his unwillingness to reach beyond his base is part of the vicious circle in which he's caught. If he reins himself in, he betrays the anti-PC mantra of his public persona and potentially loses some of the fervent support of the deplorables. However, if he reassures the deplorables at every opportunity, he remains a boutique candidate of the disenchanted right.
12DugsBooks
>8 Crypto-Willobie: yep, I am sure those ladies were in direct contact with Trump's people for some time.
SNL probably captured the dems reaction best - showing Hillary dancing with a large group while chugging from a bottle of champagne celebrating the tape.
Just goes to show the truth of a quote I saw some time ago about how "reporters are there to make a living off of you."
SNL probably captured the dems reaction best - showing Hillary dancing with a large group while chugging from a bottle of champagne celebrating the tape.
Just goes to show the truth of a quote I saw some time ago about how "reporters are there to make a living off of you."
13rastaphrog
>3 DugsBooks: >8 Crypto-Willobie: WHile Trump is milking Bill Clintons past for all it's worth now, back while it was going on he didn't think too highly of the accusers or their accusations.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/trump-called-bill-clintons-accusers-terrible-los...
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/trump-called-bill-clintons-accusers-terrible-los...
14davidgn
Not that anyone's asking, but here's what I meant about the moderator.
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/10/11/debate-moderator-distorted-syrian-reality/
Which also ties in directly to a discussion on another thread:
https://www.librarything.com/topic/226334#5756216
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/10/11/debate-moderator-distorted-syrian-reality/
Which also ties in directly to a discussion on another thread:
https://www.librarything.com/topic/226334#5756216
