CATWoman Planning Thread

Here is where we'll decide on the structure of the CATWoman. This is a proposed structure to start from:

Classics by Women
Modern Novels by Women
Bailey's Prize Winners or nominees (formerly Orange Prize)
Other Prize Winners (Nobel, Pulitzer, etc.)
Regional reading (Middle Eastern women authors, Asian, African, etc)
African-American Women Authors
Lesbian Literature
Children's Book Favorites
Feminist Literature or Non-fiction
Biographies of Women
Autobiographies by Women
Genre Reading (mysteries by women, SciFi by women, Poetry, etc.)

This proposal is not set in stone. Here is the place to add your suggestions, comments, and questions. If someone would like to step forward to help manage this discussion, that would be great.

I'd not specify prizes, just do one (or two if desired (perhaps one for work-specific awards and one for author-specific awards)) month for "prize winners" and leave it at that.
Someone mentioned rather than "modern" to have it be a specific date so as to avoid confusion over what "modern" means. 1960s onward? Feel free to suggest your own notion!
I'd make Afro-American inclusive to women of color (unless people wanted to have one month specifically for this and another for other WoC).
Lesbian to ...LBTQ? However you wanna phrase it, inclusive.
I'd lose children's, or at the very least expand to YA also.
I'd combine bios & autobios (also suggested in the previous thread), tossing in memoirs for good measure. ;)
I'd split feminist & nonfic, to "feminist or strong female character," and "nonfic or historical fic."
Graphic novels?

Since there will be an AwardCAT, I suggest replacing the two awards-based months with something else.

Do we want an autobiography month and an biography month?

And since suggesting we remove themes with out suggesting replacements is just mean, some other themes to consider might be women in politics which could encompass everything from historical novels or non-fiction about female rulers or women who held power to political thrillers, or women as narrators - books told from a woman's POV.

I agree with Monkey in having a WoC author month instead of an African American author month. It's less US-centric that way.

I agree with Monkey that we should combine biographies with autobiographies and memoirs.

How about debut books by first time authors?

And women of color would be more inclusive than African American authors.

I like "women in politics."

And yeah, not just that but even in the US there's those with other heritages. Always good to be inclusive. :)

I'm going to try to synthesize these suggestions into a numbered list to see how many topics we have*; please correct me if I get anything wrong:

1. Classics by women
2. Modern (post-1960) novels by women
3. Regional reading
4. Women of color
5. LBTQ
6. Genres
7. Biography/autobiography/memoir
8. Nonfiction or historical fiction
9. Women in politics?
10. Feminist fiction / women as narrators / strong female character ???
11. Debut books?
12. Children's/YA ??? Graphic novels ???

I left off Award winners.

*These don't have to correspond to months yet.

Thanks, Shannon for pulling the ideas mentioned together.
Here are a few modifications to the list above --- these are suggestions since, unfortunately, I was a class when the discussion started

1. Classics by women
2. Modern (post-1960) novels by women
3. Regional reading
4. Women of color
5. LBTQ
6. Genres (Short stories, Poetry, Plays
Do we also want another for other genres such as mysteries, scifi, romance -- or leave it to any genre one chooses)
7. Biography/autobiography/memoir (possibly add correspondence -- also can be fictional biography)
8. Nonfiction or historical fiction
9. Women in politics? Possibly add journalism? or make it Women as social activists
10. Feminist fiction / women as narrators / strong female character ???
11. Debut books?
12. Make Children's/YA ??? Graphic novels ??? -- Eliminate this category and add a category for Women in the arts

I think that our Woman BingoPUP this year was weak in Women in the arts which could include artists (painters, sculptors, etc.), participants in the theater, musicians, etc.

I'm really glad that we are tentatively eliminating award winners since there is already a CAT for them.

I like the idea of a Women in the Arts month. I know that I have plenty of books that would fit that theme nicely.

I really like the Women in Arts month idea as well. Most of the other categories sound interesting and should provide a nice challenge for next year. I'm a bit confused by one of the suggestions though. What is the intent of the regional reading month?

I think that regional had been defined as
Regional reading (Middle Eastern women authors, Asian, African, etc)
However, it could also possibly be a particular region in the country in which the participant lives -- or in which she/he is particularly interested.

>11 sallylou61: - Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like an interesting category with lots of options.

I've no objections to losing both awards either, and arts sounds fine.

I definitely would not want another month for genres. Also short stories (and plays) could fit based on the actual content of them, no need for a special month there.
I have zero interest in correspondence, but I could see it fitting with either autobio/memoir or nonfic theme, it doesn't need to be singled out, nor does fictional biography, whatever that is. I don't think we really need to just keep adding more descriptors to all the themes, you can always interpret them as you see fit. A woman journalist is probably dealing with politics at least some of the time in at least some fashion, etc.

>13 .Monkey.: Sorry I did not make it clearer in message >. I just meant adding correspondence and biographical fiction (a fictionalized account of a person's life) for people who do not like nonfiction as options of autobiography/biography/memoirs.

Also, are we defining genre to be both forms such as short stories, etc. and kinds of fiction such as mysteries, etc. -- Maybe just saying genre and letting people make their own interpretations would be fine.

I'm all for keeping topics as broad as possible.

I haven't yet read any replies, but we've got two prize winner months here, but we also have a separate AwardCAT. I wonder if we can either cut down to one or no awards here, given that AwardsCAT is also running? Just a thought.

Hmmm, I guess I'm not very helpful with suggestions to add themes, just cutting down! I wonder if Biographies and Autobiographies should be combined?

>2 .Monkey.: Agreed on most of these...

- not specifying prizes (or see my other post)
- specific date for modern
- "women of colour", not just Afro-American
- LBTQ rather than lesbian
- expand children's to include YA
- combine bios and autobios (also mentioned in my other post) - also might as well include memoirs, yes
- I'd love to see graphic novels added as an option!

>5 lsh63: I also like adding in "debut"

>6 .Monkey.: I like the genre add-in, as well, but I think we could leave it open to any genre.

Ah, I see most of my thinking has already been hashed out before I even got here!!

I would like to see both Graphic Novels and YA included. Books about Women in the Arts could easily fit in many other months such as Classics, Modern Fiction, Biographies, or Historical.

>20 DeltaQueen50: If GNs aren't included, I'd say they'd fit in with the Arts one, since, well, yeah. ;) The broader-reaching the categories, the more folks there are who can find something to participate. So having arts instead of GNs seems reasonable to me, as then there can be something for everyone. :) Also YA books can be read for any of the other themes, too.

I don't really have anything to add to what's gone before because I agree with the majority of >2 .Monkey.:.

in >8 sallylou61: re 'Genres' - there's an argument for poetry being a form rather than a genre. I think just leaving the category as 'Genres' so people can make what they will of it is more inclusive.

If you can have 'Classics' and 'Modern Novels' then I see no reason why you have to subsume Graphic Novels & Children's/YA under 'Women in the Arts'. I do take on board >21 .Monkey.: 's point that broader includes more people but I think 'Women in the Arts' is just too broad as it could basically encompass anything from any of the categories ... which is fine if what we're doing is including effectively a 'free' category month and I don't think that's a bad idea. It would give us the chance to shoehorn and women's writing in that we haven't found a spot for.

Just wanted to chime in and say that though I think I posted the initial idea for CATwoman this year, I'm not going to be able to be very involved in the planning process. I'm traveling for work for the entire month of October and have spotty free wifi and access only through my phone or hotel computers - not ideal for participation!

I love all the ideas and changes so far!

>23 japaul22: Thanks, japaul22, for laying the foundations for CATWoman at the beginning of the discussion of the CATs. It was very clear and helpful. Many of your suggestions are still in it although some have been modified, and the awards suggestions dropped.

removed

...does someone else want to respond to that? Because mine would be ...unfriendly...

Well it could be labled different but I thought it could be fun. My apologies.

Here's what we've got so far, I think:
1. Classics by women
2. Modern (post-1960) novels by women
3. Regional reading (Middle Eastern women authors, Asian, African, etc)
4. Women of color
5. LBTQ
6. Genres
7. Biography/autobiography/memoir
8. Nonfiction or historical fiction
---
I think up to here is pretty solid. I think we need more discussion on the following--

9. Women in politics? Possibly add journalism? or make it Women as social activists
10. Feminist fiction
11. Debut books
12. Make Children's/YA ??? Graphic novels ??? -- Eliminate this category and add a category for Women in the arts

Any other suggestions to throw in the pot?

For 9, I like "women in politics".

I also like 11 and 12. I want to keep the children's/YA/graphic novels category.

Instead of just Women in Politics, I would like to see a category that would include all women who are working in the fields of politics and government, business, journalism, health, etc.

I also would like to keep 11 as is and have 12 be for Children's/YA/Graphics.

For 9, would "politicians and social activists" suit?

It's fine with me to keep children's/YA/graphic novels as a combination. However, I definitely do not want graphic novels as the single topic for a month. Graphic novels is one of the two squares I have not yet read for the BingoDOG; if I do fill that square once in two years should be plenty.

I still like Women in the arts since that includes many fields in the humanities. We had more of a science emphasis in the 2016 Woman BingoPUP.

I suggest counting Women in the Arts as option 13 and keeping 9 (simply as women in politics), 11, 12, and 13.

This drops #10 feminist fiction which in the original suggestion included women as narrators and strong female characters. Probably (but not necessarily) strong female characters would show up in other categories.

>31 RidgewayGirl: I think that's a good way to phrase it.

>32 sallylou61: It's fine with me to keep children's/YA/graphic novels as a combination. However, I definitely do not want graphic novels as the single topic for a month. Graphic novels is one of the two squares I have not yet read for the BingoDOG; if I do fill that square once in two years should be plenty.

The nice thing about doing it this way is that those who don't like graphic novels can read children's or YA instead and vice versa.

>32 sallylou61: I suggest counting Women in the Arts as option 13 and keeping 9 (simply as women in politics), 11, 12, and 13. This drops #10 feminist fiction...

I am also fine with this.

I'm fine with 9, 11, and 12 staying as is. Would prefer to have Women in Arts replace feminist fiction.

I agree with >32 sallylou61: that I would not want graphic novels to be its own entry but combining it with something else is ok.

I like women in art as a category.

It seems to me that women in politics/social activism has too much overlap with feminist fiction to be separate categories. I would prefer keeping feminist fiction and dropping women in politics or combining the two (perhaps call it feminist writing rather than feminist fiction so as to include nonfiction).

How about possibly combining feminist fiction/writing with LBTQ as one category? (i.e. Feminist/LBTQ). It would also broaden the category if someone is uncomfortable with the LBTQ category. And it would give room for Women in the Arts.

>38 kac522: I like that combination and also the addition of Women in the Arts.

>38 kac522: I like this idea.

I'm trying to synthesize all of the comments, so let me know if I get anything wrong:

1. Classics by women
2. Modern (post-1960) novels by women
3. Regional reading (Middle Eastern women authors, Asian, African, etc)
4. Women of color
5. LBTQ/Feminist writing
6. Genres
7. Biography/autobiography/memoir
8. Nonfiction or historical fiction
9. ??? (see my question below)
10. Women in the arts
11. Debut books
12. Children's/YA/Graphic novels

>30 DeltaQueen50: Instead of Women in Politics, what about Professional Women? This would also include women journalists, business, sciences, politics/government.

I'm fine with Professional Women instead of Women in Politics.

Also, at some point after we finalize the topics, we will need to decide about the order in which to read them.

>42 sallylou61: One step at a time. :-)

>41 sturlington: - Professional women sounds like a good alternative.

>43 sturlington: I agree with you about that.

Yes! I really like the name Professional Women. :)

>42 sallylou61: I like that!

Are we ready to vote on the categories?

Yes, I am, assuming Professional women will be in the #9 slot in >41 sturlington: for the vote.

>49 sallylou61: It seemed like there was general agreement on that.

I'm ready to vote too.

not sure what version we're voting on?

>52 majkia: This is the latest version.

1. Classics by women
2. Modern (post-1960) novels by women
3. Regional reading (Middle Eastern women authors, Asian, African, etc)
4. Women of color
5. LBTQ/Feminist writing
6. Genres
7. Biography/autobiography/memoir
8. Nonfiction or historical fiction
9. Professional women
10. Women in the arts
11. Debut books
12. Children's/YA/Graphic novels

Months are not set yet. Does anyone have any ideas for how pick months? I was thinking we could let the volunteer hosts for each category decide which month they wanted.

Definitely ready to vote and I like the idea of the volunteer host choosing their theme.

Agreed that the volunteer should pick the month.

Here are the proposed categories for the CATWoman:

Classics by women
Modern (post-1960) novels by women
Regional reading (Middle Eastern women authors, Asian, African, etc)
Women of color
LBTQ/Feminist writing
Genres
Biography/autobiography/memoir
Nonfiction or historical fiction
Professional women
Women in the arts
Debut books
Children's/YA/Graphic novels

Volunteer hosts will pick the month for their theme.

Vote yes if you would like to proceed with this structure. Vote no if you would like to have further discussion. If you vote no, please try to offer some suggestions for changes that you'd like to see. Undecideds will not count. I'll keep the voting open through Friday.

>56 sturlington: I am extremely disappointed with the structure of the vote for the CatWoman. We are being asked to vote on two different issues in the same vote: the topics themselves and the method of determining the order of the topics.

I initially voted yes because I like the topics. However, I changed my vote to NO because I do NOT like the idea of a person's choosing the topic and the month. I definitely think that we should decide on the order of the topics, and then have people volunteer. We already have the RandomCAT in which people volunteer for the month they want and determine their topics. Both the AwardsCAT and the CultureCAT were permitted to determine the months for the topics prior to the vote; in my opinion, the WomanCAT should have been given this same kind of consideration.

I realize that I may or may not be in the minority in this position. I don't know how many people were voting yes mainly for the categories as categories. I am certainly willing to go along with what the majority of the people who plan to participate in the CAT want. It is important that this CAT be successful.

Here is a suggested order of topics if we decide to have a prearranged order instead of having people choose both their topics and months.

Classics by women
Debut books
Regional reading (Middle Eastern women authors, Asian, African, etc)
Biography/autobiography/memoir
LBTQ/Feminist writing
Modern (post-1960) novels by women
Women of color
Nonfiction or historical fiction
Children's/YA/Graphic novels
Professional women
Genres
Women in the arts

This is merely a suggestion. I was trying to separate Classics and Modern, the topics concerning diversity (i.e. Regional, Women of Color, and LBTQ/Feminist), and occupational (Professional and Women in the Arts), and the topics which are most likely to be non-fictional.

>57 sallylou61: and >58 sallylou61: I probably should have set up two different votes. For that, I apologize. However, here is my perspective on it.

The months in the AwardsCAT and CultureCAT were prechosen because they correspond to annual events. In the AwardsCAT, the months are timed to coincide with the giving of the award or the announcement of the shortlist. In the CultureCAT, the months more or less correspond to international days of recognition that relate to the themes being read that month.

I see no such correspondence with the categories in this CAT. I think we may be more likely to get volunteer hosts if the hosts can determine which theme and which month they would like.

However, I do understand that you may not want similar themes to cluster together. I think we can work this out through discussion. Volunteer hosts are generally very flexible. They are often open to hosting on several different months. I think we can figure it out together so that we don't get all the nonfiction months together or all the diversity months together.

I would encourage you to see how the categories/months shape up, and then speak up if there seems to be any issues. I feel like it will work out naturally. If it doesn't, then we can figure out a way to solve it together.

I'm just now finding the planning threads. I want to make sure that I'm understanding the proposal correctly. The volunteers to host a month will be choosing one of the 12 topics in the list, so we know now what the topics will be - just not which month they'll be featured. Is that correct?

>60 cbl_tn: That is correct.

Just tried to post a long post on my phone in a hotel and lost it all. Argh!

Long story short, though I threw out these ideas initially I think there are some that still need to be thought through. Particularly the regional reading (would we pick one region, have people read a book from outside their home region, or what? Could sort of overlap with the women of color category if we aren't careful). Also modern novels - I very randomly picked post-1960 - is everyone ok with that? Nonfiction/historical fiction is also rather broad.

Just some things to ponder.

>60 cbl_tn: Oh, are we still not going to arrange it ahead of time? that is, the volunteers won't be choosing and arranging ahead of time? (So that people know before the year even starts which month will be which topic?) Even if volunteers choose their own topics/months, I think it can be figured out ahead of time, no?

>63 LibraryCin: Yes, once the categories are set, then people can volunteer to host and they can say then which month and theme they would like. It should all be worked out ahead of time.

>63 LibraryCin: Yes, it would be worked out before Jan 1, but not before we vote.

Thank you for clarifying for me! That is what I'd been thinking.

It looks like we have selected our categories:

January: Classics by women -- japaul22
February: Debut books -- LittleTaiko
March: Genres -- sturlington
April: Biography/autobiography/memoir -- sallylou61
May: Women in the arts -- Violetbramble
June: Professional women -- LittleTaiko
July: Women of color -- luvamystery65
August: Nonfiction or historical fiction -- LibraryCin
September: Children's/YA/Graphic novels -- DeltaQueen50
October: Regional reading -- RidgewayGirl
November: LGBT/Feminist writing -- mathgirl40
December: Modern (post-1960) novels by women -- christina_reads

So excited about this challenge. Can I have Debut Books in February?

I am looking forward to this challenge! I can do "Childrens/YA and Graphics" in September.

I'm volunteering to take Biography, autobiography, and memoir in April.

Glad to see that so far we are following the order suggested in message 58, which tries to balance types of literature and fiction/non-fiction throughout the year.

I'll take Women of Color in July. I have tons to choose from in my own challenge and off the shelf.

I will do Genres in March.

Still need more volunteers!

I'll do classics by women in January.

I'll do regional reading in October.

I'm looking forward to this challenge, even if I don't participate every month.

I can do LGBT/Feminist writing in November. I'm hoping to read a good number of books from the Virago Modern Classics list for the CATWoman challenge, so that will give me ideas for this topic.

Yay! Four categories still up for grabs.

I hadn't planned on hosting a month for this one, but one topic does interest me, so put me down for historical fiction and nonfiction. Let's say for August.

I can do Women in the Arts in May

I'll volunteer to host the thread for "modern (post-1960) novels by women" in December. But I plan to participate in this CAT only intermittently, so I'm happy to step back if someone else is eager to do it!

Anybody want to host Professional Women in June?

If nobody else volunteers, I'll be happy to host twice.

>82 LittleTaiko: I'll put you down for now.

Here is the general thread for the CATWoman: http://www.librarything.com/topic/239374

So . . . if I am reading this right, we are fulfilling one category per months instead of a Bingo card like last year? Or is there a different thread for that?

>85 Cariola: It's an official CAT next year, so there will be a new category and thread each month, as for other CATs. There is a Bingo card, but just one and not specifically for books by women. Here's the thread: http://www.librarything.com/topic/233008

>85 Cariola: Although there will only be one set of Bingo categories, a few of us may unofficially make it a woman Bingo challenge for ourselves by only reading books by women. I think that most if not all of the categories would be suitable; I don't see any that say the author or main character, etc., must be male. The cards have not been created yet, but the categories are listed in message 35 at the above URL.

I hope that you enjoyed this year's Woman BingoPUP. We created it instead of a WomanKIT (unofficial CAT) when the WomanCAT lost by a very small margin for the second year in a row.