Standard editions of LEs

I see from the latest catalogue that there are now standard, cheaper editions of Moby Dick and Coleridge’s poetry. On the one hand, this is excellent news if you either missed or couldn’t afford the LEs - and I presume will also knock the inflated prices of at least the former on the secondary market.

On the other, the question I wonder - as someone who has spent a fairly serious amount of money on LEs - is what the point is of the whole limited edition programme, if the books are to be released in standard editions later down the line. Apart from wealthy completists, who would pay £200 - £300 for a book when it’s first published, surely most of the collectors, even those possessed of the most severe FSD, would wait a year or two? In which case, what is the point of releasing expensive limited editions at all?

Would be intrigued to hear anyone’s thoughts on this...

I would agree, if not for the fact that the L.E. of Monte Cristo sold out in days, despite the prior existence of the standard edition.

>1 JohnWilmot: The Limited Editions of the books which you mention are very different from the standard editions which have just been published. They are as different from the standard editions as the 'collectable' books are from their prior Folio incarnations.

Personally, I make a decision on buying a book on the complete package at the price point offered. I have both LEs, if there was a choice, today, to purchase one, other or both, then I would purchase the LE Moby Dick in a nanosecond (I think that if you had ever had the pleasure of taking this book out of its case then you would understand why), whereas with the RotAM my decision would be a lot more considered, as I think Brockway's work looks nicer in monochrome than in colour. It is for that reason I didn't buy the LE directly from the Folio Society, but waited until I could get a reasonably priced copy in the secondary market.

A standard issue re-issue of an LE where I think the treatment in SE is nicer than the LE is The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam. The SE binding used here is high quality and I prefer the layout of the text of the poems on the page. Again I have the LE (bought secondhand), but I bought the SE for my mother as a gift and I would be very happy indeed if that was the copy I owned.

ETA - I only buy books that I wish to read and, beyond that, it is the book's design/materials/aesthetics which are the deciding factor. I never buy with perceived 'value' or re-sale value in mind.

Like other presses that deal in the LE business do offer different variations of a book, which is nothing new

As do Cemetery Dance, Subterranean Press, PSP publishing, Easton Press, and others - and of course also the FS.

For me the LE will be the highest upgrade offered (i might have to eat those words someday, but i cannot find a standard/fine edition of a book that surpasses the LE, at least not for the moment - maybe some of you can?)

The LE of Moby Dick, had some 1750 copies printed (which is pretty much, but if the demand is high, it might not be that high after all - as the secondhand prices at some point do show)

The newly printed standard/fine edition of Moby Dick, probably has a span between 3000/4000 copies (fingergefulen/wild guess)

For some this standard/fine edition will be good enough. For others, like collectors of the "highest quality" etc, the LE is the one to seek out

.. and so it goes, what works for me, might not work for you etc ..

Subterranean Press/Cemetery Dance have the hierarky of gift editions, deluxe editions, lettered editions in that order.

End note: At first, i could feel fooled, as a buyer of LE`s - but i am not, i think it`s good that more people can enjoy a finer printing of a favourite book, safely knowing that the LE will not be made again - making it sort of unique after all.

.. for those that care about that stuff ..

I think it just comes down to what you expect to get out of the LE or what it means to you. For me it's not necessarily about the fact it's limited to X number of copies or that even it's only limited for a limited time. To me the worth of a LE, be it from Folio Society or any other press, is first and foremost about presentation and ostentatiousness.

If we're talking about the LEs along the lines of Don Quixote or Candide, all of which come in both LE and fine editions, then for most I think there probably is not much of a distinction to be made. If you put both editions of Don Quixote side by side the difference is only in the binding with both printed on Caxton Wove. Even with Candide there is probably not much of a glaring difference, again aside from the leather and slightly larger size and, imo better paper, but still ultimately a toss up. I owned both editions of Quixote and Candide and in both cases I parted with the regular editions, I simply love my leather. That said I would absolute understand the more sensible book collectors preferring the cheaper versions which ultimately provide the same content.

On the other hand if we're talking about books along the lines of the vellum sextet then there is no question, to me the vellum editions such as Wind in the Willows are superior in presentation (Rubaiyyat the only exception) and materials and pretty much every other aspect compared to their regular/fine counterparts. If you put those examples side by side the difference is day and night. When I take the Wind in the Willows LE out it's an event, I don't get that feeling with the regular edition.

The fact that there are also regular editions doesn't take away from my enjoyment of a beautiful limited edition I'm lucky enough to own. I expect that for people who buy them with an eye on their market value, this kind of thing might be unpleasant though. The only thing that irritated me about the RotAM was the fact that they used the limited edition print as the new cover illustration. It seems to me like that one feature of the Limited Edition should actually be limited to it. I know the cover is not the original print, but this somehow feels wrong, and wasn't done so with Rubaiyyat, for example. Otherwise, it's certainly interesting that there are now a coloured and a black and white edition of these illustrations available.

I wonder if the standard moby dick are using the same paper as the LE, anyone can verify that ?

The website doesn't state which paper is used for the LE or the SE. So it begs two replies, withholding someone buys the SE to match. ;)

The LE is printed on Abbey Wove paper.

LE Moby Dick is printed on Abbey Wove.

drasvola; beat me to it!

Hi all - long time lurker here - first time posting.

The SE Moby Dick is printed on something called Yen Pure Paper...printed and bound in China. The paper is super smooth, to the point that it feels sort of plasticky and fake, and it has an unpleasant chemical smell. No grain or texture to the paper at all.

I really joined today to say how disappointed I am with the SE Moby Dick. I was so excited for something resembling the LE (which I pine for) that I ordered the SE on release day without really looking at it.

It's ugly. The font of the title on the spine is unremarkable. There's no nice harpoon designs on the spine as there are on the LE. The colour is a sort of dun, lacklustre bronze bs (black and silver looked stunning! Why, FS, why?) The binding is, as always, really good, and the typeset and illustrations aren't bad, and the clothbound slipcase is really nice (though the first time I pulled the book out of the really snug-fitting case it started pulling the edges of the cloth off the case...) but overall, when I got the book out the case, I was profoundly underwhelmed, and I have already packed it up for a return and refund. If it had cost half the price I might have accepted the design flaws, but for £75 they can keep this one. Guess I'll keep trying to save up for the LE :(

Anyone else feel similarly??

>11 blathin: Welcome! (And what a very interesting first post... )

>11 blathin:

Very disappointing report about the paper and binding in China. Thank you for the details. It makes my decision easier.

There are also paperback versions of Moby-Dick and the Rime for sale (or so I hear).

>11 blathin: 75 pounds?

http://tianhongps.en.made-in-china.com/product/ZMtngcOdkFUi/China-Hardcover-Case...

> 13

How common is it for Folio to print, bind, and/or source paper from China? I was under the impression Folio was 100% UK or at the very least, 100% EU.

>13 sdawson:

It seems that I have many FS books bound in Italy and Germany, which are fine. But I do want to know where the books are published now, especially at the increased cost. In the past, I assumed as well that they were all EU or UK, but if times are changing, I will need more information before purchases.

>11 blathin: The SE Moby Dick is printed on something called Yen Pure Paper...printed and bound in China. The paper is super smooth, to the point that it feels sort of plasticky and fake, and it has an unpleasant chemical smell. No grain or texture to the paper at all.

Welcome to the forums. The news you bring of the paper quality is disconcerting!

I have visited China numerous times, and bought some stunning fine edition books that have been published there with superb bindings, innovative slipcases and beautiful thick creamy paper. Not letterpress, but still very well printed. I have bought only those printed in English (very few), but have examined many more printed in Chinese that are works of art.

Do not knock it just because it is printed in China. There are good and bad printers and paper-makers in the UK, Germany and Italy as well, and I am sure the FS would be very careful about quality control. They may be taking this step in an attempt to contain the costs that we all complain about.

>11 blathin:

Welcome, and thank you for bringing to light something I had no idea was happening.

MADE IN CHINA!!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!

I just placed an order last night and took Moby Dick out of my cart at the last minute because I decided to place two orders in case Folio released anything else I wanted before the end of the year. Thank God because it would be a pain in the ass to re-pack AND RETURN ANYTHING MADE IN CHINA.

"They may be taking this step in an attempt to contain the costs that we all complain about"

The cost won't matter BECAUSE I'M NOT BUYING BOOKS MADE IN CHINA. And I'm definitely not paying $60-$120 for them either.

This will be the quickest way to lose my business. I'm already mad I won't be buying Moby Dick now.I was looking forward to that one.

DAMN!

>20 devilsisland:
What do you have against the Chinese? Isn't that like refusing to eat in American or European restaurants because a few of them aren't very good?

>21 jroger1:

My problem with Chinese goods is that they are typically of inferior and inconsistent quality. They're also cheap.

And as an added bonus they have no safety guidelines and have no problem including toxic materials in their goods.

"Isn't that like refusing to eat in American or European restaurants because a few of them aren't very good?"

No, it's not.

>22 devilsisland:

I agree. This isn't a question of improper discrimination based on race, region or other irrelevant factors. It's about quality, both in production and control.

I have bought a few items from China. Some terrible some fine. China has been plagued with its fair share of issues in a diverse array of goods, to the point of scandal: from mobile phones to baby milk.

This isn't just confined to China of course but it seems to be a real issue worth considering when buying.

>1 JohnWilmot: I was concerned originally, with Rubaiyat, that the value of an LE might become less once a fine edition based upon the LE was published at a later date, but I don't think that has happened. Fine presses usually publish, simultaneously, the same size book with different bindings, and the FS Rubaiyat, Roberts set, and Rime standard versions are noticeably smaller. Printed instead of tipped, colored /BW illustrations are also lesser variations. In all it seems that some lovely books can be made available at a fraction of the LE cost without affecting the value of the LE's.

>11 blathin: So I'm supposed to believe this ballshot about being so excited about the FSLE Moby Dick, which your heart yearns for, that you ordered the FSSE immediately upon release without really looking at it, what, just kinda glanced at, didn't go back after ordering to drink in the fine features?...what a crock!

I guess I imply your bs because now you're telling everybody who doesn't know you because you've been a longtime lurker that...unwelcome surprise...the book is ugly, don't like the spine type, no harpoons, dull color bs binding-the black and silver looked great!...but you didn't notice that when you ordered. The illustrations aren't bad-this is the Rockwell Kent Moby Dick that you yearn for, why do you want it? Maybe you're just an admirer of leather bound books.

Seems to me you would not have ordered the book if you had really looked at the web pictures. That means you have to pay the return shipping cost.

So no, I don't feel similarly, based upon your presentation. Tho I will not get a SE, because I have the LE, I think the web pics look pretty good. I look forward to hear opinions about the paper.

>12 HuxleyTheCat: Hey you!

>25 olepuppy:

All good points. I hope the part about it being made in China is also bs. I don't care about the opinion on the book as I like the looks of it and would order it. As long as it's not made in China.

>26 devilsisland:

I doubt if the poster got that part wrong, but we'll see. I won't be throwing a temper tantrum if it is made in China. I think you make a valid point about the quality control in such an unregulated country, hopefully FS has some oversight to the operation. The paper sounds off according to the poster's description, but e.g the Gardapat paper used by FS in the last Selborne and Secret Life of Trees has a more mineral smell and is very smooth, maybe that's it but we'll see.

>11 blathin: Anyone else feel similarly??

I feel extremely similarly to >25 olepuppy:

>20 devilsisland:

Sit down and have a nice cup of tea, dear.

Well, I ordered Moby-Dick on Friday and this >11 blathin: post fills me with dread and >25 olepuppy: brought me back to a more even keel. It's a expensive book for me and I hope it to be to my liking. I will report back when I have received the book!

Have some faith people. Write the customer service if somethings are of wonder. Take it from there, better than conspiring. The LE and the standard/fine edition can be compared, but one can not expect the same overall quality. The SE (standard edition) are also much likely being printed in higher numbers. But i understand this has probably much/everything to do with politics if it is indeed printed in China, therefore it`s harder to enable on the new edition for some (and if so, that discussion can probably best be taken on the other thread)

Hey, maybe even the FS can send a paper sample ..

>29 NLNils: I hope you will like it, and add some colour to the canvas that seem black to some people

Captain Obvious has something to say,`If there is one volume people are getting emotional over in this forum, it is the Moby Dick`

>30 Pellias: therefore it`s harder to enable on the new edition for some (and if so, that discussion can probably best be taken on the other thread)

Or preferably not at all.

>31 folio_books: Preferably. Stop it before it get`s out of hand Glenn, and me, i go do something else in the meantime :)

>32 Pellias: i go do something else in the meantime

Lately I find increasingly I've had to do something else in the meantime.

>29 NLNils: I look forward to your report (hopefully a corrective) and have decided to postpone my purchase for now.

>34 scratchpad: I just received my copy of Moby Dick and can confirm that it is printed and bound in China (C&C Offset Printing Co. Ltd, for anyone interested), set in Fournier and printed on Yu Long Pure paper. The paper is very smooth and has very little texture. The printing (text and illustrations) is crispy and the next page is barely shining through. The endpapers are quite thick and black with what looks like brown/goldish strands of hair. Overall I like the design. The slipcase with the black cloth and the golden print of whale in different languages looks quite appealing to me and is really sturdy, but a bit too tight. If anyone is interested in further details or some pictures just ask.

I hope this is not true for every copy, but mine has some damage to the top of the spine without the slipcase being damaged.

>35 c_schelle: Thanks for that. >11 blathin: reports an unpleasant chemical smell - have you detected anything like that? Usually new FS books have a good smell, a bad one might be a bit off!

>36 scratchpad: I can't say it's unpleasant. It's woody and a bit musky (but don't count on my sense of smell, it's not very good and I worked for a big chemical company for the last 7 years, so I might be a bit desensitize regarding bad smells). Comparing it to Do Androids.. (printed and bound in Italy) it does not smell more or less appealing to me.

>37 c_schelle: Interesting comparison. I grabbed my copy of Androids and sniffed it with great diligence and with much satisfaction. My sense of smell is pretty acute - we had a gas leak that no one but me could smell, even the guy who came to fix it. I'm not sure what this tells us except that we need more opinions on this. I can't believe where this might be going - turning down a FS book because of its smelly paper? It would be a first!

>38 scratchpad: That would be first indeed, but having it in reading distance away from me I can't even smell it at all. I have to stick my nose into the book to even register the smell.

>35 c_schelle:, >11 blathin:
If you were to inspect the book, say on first receiving it, without knowing anything about its country of origin would you say that you could detect any decrease in production quality compared to other of fs higher priced books (~75£)?

In other words without checking the publication page would you suspect it was printed in China (or any other country asociated with low production cost mass manufacturing)?

It may be a weird and hard question to awnser but I find that thought experiments as these often deduce the true imprecision something impose.

>40 GilbertSWE: It's really quite a hard question, but I would say I could not have told you where it was produced. Comparing it to the Call of Cthulhu and American Gods, I would say it is a bit too pricey, since they are both bound in cloth (which I prefer to Buckram bound, on the other hand the cloth bound slipcase of the Moby Dick is nicer than the other two's slipcase) and blocked and have specially commisioned art. But I could not tell the print quality apart.

So not only do I have to read my books and look at the pretty pictures, now I have to sniff them as well?

>42 xrayman: I think that is for the real connoisseurs ;-), like with good wine or whisky, where experts can smell all the smells there are and I can only discern almost nothing.

>43 c_schelle: You may well be right. I've conducted a number of whisky/whiskey tastings where a number of apparent experts have described subtle fragrances, whereas all I could smell was bullshit :-)

>43 c_schelle: I have the exact same experience at tastings. I'm a member of my local whisk(e)y club and attend tastings every few month, but I also can't smell most of what the host says one could smell. But at least I can tell what I like ;-)

>25 olepuppy: Hey, Paul! Are you suspecting infiltration from the EPc group again? (And just where is our one-man legal system mr johndunn?)

I recall there were grumblings when it was noticed that some Folios were being produced in Italy and Spain.

>46 HuxleyTheCat: My gut tells me i have seen mr. J.D`s presence at FS devotees before under at least one different name, starting with the letter `r`

But i can`t give the name, that would be unsportsmanlike. He`ll be back, if i`m wrong, sorry, i love you, cheers and all that ..

.. shh :)

Just to clarify a few things...I have limited time online what with work / baby at home and various other priorities, so no, I didn't spend a long time ogling the web page before ordering: I knew it was a FS, I knew it was Rockwell Kent, I went for it. I did see the pictures, and I thought 'hmm, not as good as the LE, but hopefully better in real than on my screen...perhaps the pictures don't do the real thing justice.'

I ordered it with expedited next-day delivery, and so again, no, I didn't go back and 'drink in the fine features...' before receiving it and opening it the next evening.

How is that a crock? It's "ballshot" to be impulsive in my buying? Usually so confident in FS wares that I wasn't unduly slowed by doubts and deliberations? Is it only "not a crock" when you spend however long olepuppy spends looking at and choosing a book before buying it? That doesn't seem fair or reasonable.

As for "your bs"...I'm confused. Am I bs? My story? My disappointment? My assessment of the book?

And if the latter, is it "bs" to be disappointed by the aesthetics of a book? Is it "bs" to find the colour, font, and presentation of the cover to be disappointing - especially in comparison to the LE? Am I not allowed to find the texture of the paper a let-down after greatly admiring the quality of the paper in my other FS volumes - or is this more "bs"? Even if I'd given due consideration to the book online I would have been none the wiser regarding the texture of the paper, the smell of the pages, or the look of the cover in the clear light of tangible reality - no matter what small misgivings I might have had regarding the latter in the online pictures. As you say, the illustrations and font are what I knew they would be, but those weren't the reasons for my disappointment. Leather would be lovely, but I have treasured FS books that aren't leather - does being disappointed in the choice of cover illustration from the 280-odd options and the choice of cover colour reduce me to simply an "admirer of leather-bound books"? Can't someone appreciate a book but be disappointed by the appeal of the presentation? or does that make me "bs" too?

And I never said anything about being disappointed by its being produced in China - I merely mentioned that to the poster who asked about the paper.

Frankly disappointed at such an aggressive response to sharing my opinion of a book, and kind of confirmed my reluctance to post on forums like this in general.

Thanks to everyone who bid me welcome, but i think I'll say adieu here. Hope you all enjoy whichever Christmas Collection arrivals you choose. Happy reading

I do find it amusing when online skepticism rises to the level of not accepting someone's opinion.

"I don't like that."

"I'm sorry, that doesn't hold up."

>48 blathin: I am also a long time lurker and collector of Folio Society. This is also my first time posting. I just wanted to say that I thought your posting about the standard Moby Dick edition was very helpful and interesting. I didn't think your opinion was bs at all, and I think your reasons for being disappointed are completely understandable. Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry you had such a disrespectful response from that person. I hope you will not let one person ruin your experience or stop you from sharing in the future. Again, I'm so sorry someone responded so aggressively to your first posting. This group is all about sharing our love for FS books. I also welcome you and hope you stay.

>50 NotDownInAnyMap: Well said.

>50 NotDownInAnyMap:
Welcome to FSD and thank you for such a sensible first post.
Hopefully >48 blathin: will not abandon us. We really are quite a nice bunch, although some of us have off days and get a bit crotchety at times.
Both of you should find the information here of interest and help in the future, and we all would value your further input.

>48 blathin: I also were knocked a little in the start. It`s the nature of things, a new creature shows up on the savannah, and the others come to smell on you. 3 people were at me for writing `lol`, and i wrote back as a noob, still not knowing the `rules of law`, but now i have balls of steel. This was my first ever web fora. It still is my main, and somewhat only one. You just need to acclimate, but you can`t do that if you pull in your oars so to speak. It`s a great fora for enablement, and more consistent reading (at least for my behalf). LT is not a "bully" fora, but it`s here like elsewhere - there is people. It`s hard to get away from them, i try, but alas no ..

Happy reading! - Godspeed, if you close the book that is LT

>48 blathin:

I will add to the general chorus of asking you not to depart.

All I can say, that the internet is a place where despite our best efforts we act differently towards each other sometimes.

I do know that Paul (olepuppy) is a decent chap and I wouldn't worry about any lasting quarrels.

I've had many ding dongs on here over the past 10 years. Some my fault, some others'. I've taken extended leave but returned too.

Quite simply, the forum tends to attract a decent regular crowd who have diverse opinions.

>54 LesMiserables:

Some more diverse than others. Shouty sinophobia is quite a new diversity.

>55 affle:

I don't read it like that.

> 48 blathin

I appreciated your post and was baffled at the aggressive and derogatory reaction, not the first one to a first-time poster I've seen. I hope this won't drive you away, but can understand your reaction if it does.

> 50 NotDownInAnyMap

Welcome, and thank you for that thoughtful and supportive post.

> 48 blathin

Yeah, I haven't been here long either. I've enjoyed the vast majority of the discussions here but I've noticed that a very few of the posters have some kind of FS vs Easton fanboy thingy going on, and can get quite aggressive in their defence. It's a bit like the Nintendo vs Sega fanboy thing that went on when I was at school. Admittedly we were 10 years old at the time.

>58 Levin40:
Thanks for that well-stated observation. Some of us old timers wonder like you do why it has to be one or the other. Both do quality work.

Hi,

I would expect that the Moby Dick at $A150 would be of the highest quality. In particular if printed in China. I would hope and expect that the Folio Society pay particular attention to detail and have the highest Quality Assurance (to binding and paper). (Things do seem to be made to a price)

Could others provide their thoughts on the quality of binding and paper. I am still interested in buying but does seem expensive and have some concerns about quality of paper from above reports.

I have already had one not very good experience pre-ordering an expensive book published by a Government Instrumentality and printed in China where there were so many complaints regarding the quality of the paper and printing quality of the book they reprinted it, using heavier paper, and offered to replace the original copy. It did show a lack of quality Assurance and I suspect if it was not for the Government Instrumentality publisher a reprint offer would not have happened

Anyways.

If there's one standard(ized) edition I'd like to see, it's the Temple of Flora, though I suppose Taschen already did it.

>61 MobyRichard: I believe Taschen only did a full sized boxed set of the plates.

This was posted by Folio on Facebook in response to the remark that Moby-Dick was printed in China:

"Hi (name redacted) - Folio takes particular care to select suppliers based on the quality of their work. At Folio we take pride in the strong relationship we form with our suppliers and indeed there is no supplier we use that we have not visited in person.

All except one of our suppliers is based in Europe. The single supplier we use in China has a London office and a plant in China which we visited earlier this year. The company’s culture is centred on a strong sense of responsibility to their employees’ wellbeing, creativeness and talents."

And further on:

"...We guarantee that the quality of Folio books is not being in any way compromised - it is simply because there are not many sheet-fed printers in the world. We have extensive quality checks for every printer we use and visit each one personally. We have received great customer feedback on this book so far."

Take it for what it's worth.

>63 NLNils: Looking at their website they do indeed seem to pay rather more than lip service to environmental impact and staff development, going so far as to offer a Masters Degree as part of the CPD programme. What do we have in the UK? 'Apprenticeships' which hark back to the YTS and YOpS programmes of the '70s.

>63 NLNils:
"Take it for what it's worth."

It's worth nothing to me. Over the last 20 years I have seen many quality products esp. handmade products get forced out of the market by cheap Chinese crap which is now choking our landfills.

Fortunately there is of late a resurgence in the US of quality products once more made in the USA.

I'm all for letting the market decide who wins and loses,but it takes information to make an informed decision. if you are afraid to tell your customers where the product is made, they cant vote with their wallets.

My wallet votes "NO" to made in China.

>63 NLNils:
"We have received great customer feedback on this book so far."

They must mean emails they received directly from customers, because I have yet to hear any positive feedback for the Moby-Dick standard edition. So far I've only read negative feedback in the Made in China topic, and there are currently no reviews on the FS website. Maybe the company that printed the book is a good, responsible business. But what about the book itself? I would love to hear directly from those who have actually purchased the book.

>66 NotDownInAnyMap: I have the book and wrote a bit about it in >35 c_schelle: and onwards. If you have further questions I'm happy to answer them.

>67 c_schelle: Thank you. I overlooked your comment. That is helpful.

I have the book. the paper is smooth but not shiny. The book opens well and the binding is not too tight, the slipcase, however, is too tight and not very exciting in it’s design. It is as if the size of the slip case is correct but then it has been covered in a thicker than usual cloth making the case rather tight. Bought mainly for the illustrations. The typeface is large and easy to read.

>69 paulmoran: Thank you. From the photos on the website, I also thought the design of the slipcase was not exciting. Instead of the word whale in different languages, I would rather see a quote from the book or another unique design. But I do like the cloth compared to a paper slipcase.

>70 NotDownInAnyMap: The list of the words various languages use for whale is a quote from the book, isn't it? The third section in "Etymology", which is the opening sequence of the work.

>71 gmacaree:
I think you're right. My somewhat temperamental memory tells me that it's one of the many lists in the book.
Which is not to say >70 NotDownInAnyMap: is wrong to say that it's not an exciting adornment to a slipcase. Matter of opinion, I suppose.

>72 Cat_of_Ulthar: I'd have liked it on the solander but I'll live without :)

>71 gmacaree: Yes, I believe you're correct. I meant a quote from the one of the chapters. There is so much beautiful prose in this book to choose from.

> 74 I see by your postings at the Easton Press site on the Moby Dick thread that you have a Rockwell Kent edition from the '30's on the way, has it arrived? What do you think of it?

>30 Pellias: >34 scratchpad: >66 NotDownInAnyMap: I'm here to report as promised. I received my order yesterday, but didn't have the time to unpack untill late afternoon today. I made pictures of Moby Dick, but the light was already fading and it rained intermittently, so don't knock me too hard on the quality. First of I'll add to the descriptions of c_schelle and paulmoran:

>35 c_schelle: I just received my copy of Moby Dick and can confirm that it is printed and bound in China (C&C Offset Printing Co. Ltd, for anyone interested), set in Fournier and printed on Yu Long Pure paper. The paper is very smooth and has very little texture. The printing (text and illustrations) is crispy and the next page is barely shining through. The endpapers are quite thick and black with what looks like brown/goldish strands of hair. Overall I like the design. The slipcase with the black cloth and the golden print of whale in different languages looks quite appealing to me and is really sturdy, but a bit too tight.

I received Dune with the same order and this is printed on Abbey Wove. This has a more tactile feel to it for sure, but the Yu Long Pure Paper used for Moby Dick is equal in thickness. It's smooth but not glossy. Overall the book is produced up to Folio's standard. (Also >69 paulmoran:) I concur. The slipcase is in my case not a bit tight, but way too tight. The book doesn't show rubbing, but it's inevitable.

>37 c_schelle: I can't say it's unpleasant. It's woody and a bit musky (but don't count on my sense of smell, it's not very good and I worked for a big chemical company for the last 7 years, so I might be a bit desensitize regarding bad smells). Comparing it to Do Androids.. (printed and bound in Italy) it does not smell more or less appealing to me.

The smell as mentioned above is nothing unusual. I did a comparative smell test with the Dune volume and nothing stood out to me. It smells of wood/paper and lightly ink. This should not be a worry going forward in my opinion.

>40 GilbertSWE: >41 c_schelle: The question of being it a discernible drop-off in quality, I'd say no. It's not screaming in your face to be of lesser quality, it's really on par with other Folio's I own, and with the Dune I ordered, which has the same price point and is produced by the (around here) revered combination of Memminger and Lachenmaier. In regard to the £75 price tag: I would liked to have paid less. I don't expect the prices overall to come down, but I could be wrong. I'm happy to own this copy of the book.

I will not let you wait any longer, here are the photo's of the book outside and in (the pages are uniform in colour, my overhead lamp is responsible for the yellowish impression):

>76 NLNils:
If I didn' t already have the LE, you would have got me. It looks gorgeous!

>76 NLNils: I`m glad your happy with it, and hope it grows on you even more! -Maybe the slipcase can be widened slightly some clever way (without the book inside during the process, anything is possible), enough for the book to don`t recieve any damage.

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"The book fits too tight inside the slipcase and is very difficult to take out. Unfortunately, some of the dye of the cloth is already rubbing off on the inside of the slipcase possible because of the tight fit."

" The paper is a touch off-white, very smooth (no texture), and with substantial see-through which impacts reading at times."

" Regarding the binding, there are several instances towards the back of the book with separation between signatures in the gutter. I can see the threads of the sewn binding loose in these areas. I'm concerned it may worsen with multiple readings."

" Finally, after reading the book and closing it, the book gets cocked and out of square. I have to realign the text block to the spine every time. "

This makes my point about Chinese products. The LOOK like what you want, but what you actually get is a knock off, plain and simple. And in this case, for full price.

There's no sense in hoping they do a second printing in Germany, because they won't. I'd love to have this book but I'm not buying it,,,even if they put it on sale.

Folio can claim that the quality standards were maintained but they weren't. And usually the first batch is the best, if there are more copies to be printed I guarantee they will be worse quality.

>80 devilsisland:
I had exactly the same problems with the made in Germany Tale of Genji, so bad that I had to reject the first two I received. Even the third has red staining inside the slipcase. The first two were coming apart between the final signature and the endpaper. It's ridiculous to suggest that such problems are specifically Chinese. Almost every book produced over 5 or 600 pages needs a support inside the slipcase to prevent sagging. Books of that size are forced to use thinner paper to avoid making such problems even worse. And books with cloth rather than paper slipcases are usually too tight -- even LEs -- because the cloth is turned inside the slipcase to narrow the space and cause rubbing.

>81 Jayked:

First I've heard of that. My Tale of Genji is fine.

It's ridiculous to compare products manufactured in Germany to products made in China. Their reputations speak for themselves regardless of the experience you had.

If given the choice, I suspect the vast majority of consumers would prefer German products to Chinese, even if the German products were at a premium (which they are).

I you don't have a problem paying top dollar for a Chinese knock off, buy it. Maybe folio should just move the company to China, way more profitable that way. Maybe they should mass produce their titles for Wal-Mart and Costco. Why not? More profit right?

Poor Emma will need to find a new job.

80> I'm also concerned about these issues mentioned. The separation of the signatures is a huge red flag for me. I have never seen that happen with a Folio Society book. Also if the book gets cocked like that, sounds like the binding is not strong enough to support the size of the book and weight of the pages. This is horrible news. I really had high hopes for this edition.

>79 Anna1851:

" Regarding the binding, there are several instances towards the back of the book with separation between signatures in the gutter. I can see the threads of the sewn binding loose in these areas. I'm concerned it may worsen with multiple readings."

O dear.

One of the tradition selling points of Folio Society books has been the ability to lay a book flat on a table and be assured that no damage will occur to the spine, stitching etc. No tears, cracking or separation.

I am alarmed at what you are saying here. Is this perhaps a specific instance and not widespread? All print runs have their duds and are normally weeded out by quality control. I wonder if anyone else can have a look at the book laid flat and checking the gutters for the same issue?

>84 LesMiserables: I just checked mine and specifically to the end for separation of the signatures and loose threads. I didn't find these problems. I interpret the original commentary as to seeing space between signatures, literal cracking. I would like to see some photographs from said defects from other posters to see if I'm overlooking things. I might be under qualified. Also, the book is just being delivered and to already having read most or all of the book is an accomplishment not matched by me. So I can only comment on what I've seen so far, less on durability.

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>86 Anna1851: Thank you for posting these! I haven't seen such separation in my copy, but as I said, it hasn't been read (multiple times) yet. The cocking of the book is also present with my copy, you indeed have to return it to its original form. Will you ask for a replacement?

Surely that copy is defective! It cannot possibly be an example of the overall production quality...a far cry from folio binding quality. Very dissapointing, needless to say moby dick and the celts (which someone else said was made by the same printers) will not be making in their way into my Christmas stocking! I await more feedback before I pull the trigger on these books.

>86 Anna1851: There should be a black lining between the pages and the outer binding (I don't know what it is called). I can't see that in your pictures. My own copy has this and it doesn't display the same distortions/cracks.

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>86 Anna1851:
Ask for a replacement, especially for the separation shown in the first 3 photos. My copies of Genji were actually worse than that, but they replaced without wanting to see the evidence. I did ask if someone could check for defects before sending replacements, but apparently once books are in the warehouse they can't be checked. They just keep sending you copies until you get a good one. I guess that's quality control by customer.
One reason why printing in China is becoming attractive is the likelihood that European operations are likely to become more expensive. In their last newsletter Persephone Books offered dire warnings about not being able to afford their usual European printers once tariffs are in place.
I wasn't asked to send any copies back.
(edited to ad last sentence)

>90 Anna1851: f they require me to ship this copy back to them, I probably won't.

As a rule they don't ask purchasers to return faulty copies. You'll probably be invited to donate it to a local charity or something similar. That one is definitely defective.

>90 Anna1851: Not between the pages but between the pages and the binding (I said this), more correctly between the sewn edges and the outer spine (I failed to say this) - I am guessing it strengthens the page/spine interface (I know next to nothing about book structure/anatomy). Anyway, it doesn't matter - the book needs to be replaced. I am confident that FS will not ask for a return - good luck.

>90 Anna1851: Forget what I said about a black lining - on closer inspection the 'lining' is the top and bottom edges only of the brown paper which is stuck to the sewn edges. My ignorance of book structures is profound. Apologies for the mislead.

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> 89

The pictures above do appear to show the black thread of the footband from the smyth sewing. Is that what you mean?

> 90 Anna1851

In my experience they didn't want a return of regular editions and were very helpful with replacements. Sending a photo with your mail can't hurt.

With limited editions, they wanted me to tear several pages out and return those to them, which made me cringe. I could ship them back whole (it didn't cost that much from Germany, and they refunded that cost and would have refunded the shipping for the torn out pages, too). But with the members' room being gone, I doubt they'd still accept this.

I think that it is particularly important to highlight problems with books (preferably with photographs) where the supplier is a new one. There is bound to be a bedding in period, and Folio need feedback to allow them to provide an accurate assessment of the supplier. I have no truck with the 'it's Chinese so it's rubbish' angle of some here, as there have been numerous, ongoing quality control issues with British / European Limited Editions, where frankly there has been no excuse for them. Folio need to sort out their quality control and good quality feedback from us, the customers, is the foundation of that.

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>75 olepuppy: Yes, it arrived and I was very happy with it. If you go back to the Moby-Dick topic in the Easton Press group, I recently made a comment about it there too.

>98 HuxleyTheCat: Couldn't agree more! There is certainly a quality control issue with this Moby-Dick edition. I'm just curious about the probably hundreds of sealed copies of this first print run in their warehouse that may be affected. If Folio sorts out their quality control, maybe the second printing (if there is one) will produce a better result. Also I wonder if Folio will still try to sell all of the books from this first printing knowing about the issue raised here. How would they know which copies from the first printing are affected?

>98 HuxleyTheCat: Folio need to sort out their quality control and good quality feedback from us, the customers, is the foundation of that.

Absolutely. I'm much bolder about that than I was years ago and it's because they need to know there's a problem. This particular one might be limited to a one or two or a handful of copies, or to a whole batch. Whatever, they need to know. Not that I'm a huge fan of the customer providing the quality control but where all else has failed it's the only option.

>99 Anna1851: I included the photos seen in my previous post. So it is being brought to their attention at least.

Very good. I guarantee there'll be no problem in sending you a replacement. Their quality control may be dubious but their customer service certainly isn't.

>98 HuxleyTheCat:
>101 folio_books:
Couldn't agree more, but my experience was that the helpful people who talk to customers by phone or email (one and the same) have absolutely no influence on how things are done. Presumably they sit in front of a computer with a headset and a wheeled chair alternating between companies. They listen to your tale of woe, say they'll leave a note, and when pressed will admit that they don't know if any action will be taken beyond the refund or replacement they're authorised to give. I've always offered to send photos and they've politely declined. I suppose that when a run of 1000 books is ordered the WIC will assume that 5% will be duds, and mark up the rest accordingly. Cheaper than hiring a human to do quality control. In the case of Genji they sent me 3 copies of their most expensive 2-vol Fine edition, 2 of which had exactly the same unacceptable flaw, including 3 lots of excessive postage and taxes. For all they (or I) knew there was a run of 20 like that, but they had no mechanism for checking. Given that not many people wade through the text, there may still be a few duds out there, with no replacement copies left.

>86 Anna1851:

Those pictures are pretty conclusive. There is no way that copy could take anything other than delicate use which defeats the purpose of these editions.

It's obviously a defective copy and won't be representative of the print itself, but it gets me to think about what quality control has gone into the process?

>96 treereader: It may well be but I cannot see it.

Just to say that I am happy with my copy of MD although I would have preferred an ordinary slipcase rather than cloth.

>102 Jayked: The customer service reps are Folio employees: Colin used to be one of the staff in the dMR, so they do have a vested interest rather than just working in a multi-company call centre. The reason I would urge people to send photos this time around, is due to this being a new supplier-relationship for them. I remember the first large order I placed with a newly contracted supplier in work, the books arrived in single-skin boxes, which weren't robust enough for the journeys that many would take. A couple of quick emails and the new supplier sorted the issue. A new relationship is a learning curve on both sides, so feedback at this stage is really important.

>105 HuxleyTheCat:

Agreed on the email. I think Mole is pretty active anyway and they will be reading these threads with interest.

Why does the word 'whale' appear twice on the slipcase of Moby Dick?

>107 scratchpad: If Melville is to be believed (and I'm not sure he should be), one instance is English, the other Icelandic

>107 scratchpad: >108 gmacaree: I found a list of the word whale in different languages https://www.indifferentlanguages.com/words/whale according to this list a lot of languages use the word whale, but not Icelandic.

>108 gmacaree: >109 c_schelle: Thanks for that. I suppose there had to be a rationale but it looks like more of a mistake than anything else - oops, typo...

>110 scratchpad:
It seems to be a mistake, yes. In the Norton Critical Edition (and in the Penguin Classics) the Icelandic form is "HVALUR", but in 1851text (which FS is using) it is “WHALE”. Here is what I’ve found on the subject:
“WHALE, which is not a possible Icelandic form, perhaps results from a slip by the compositor (of the American Edition), whose eye may have skipped to the next line of his copy, where “WHALE” properly appears. Conceivably Melville did think that “whale” was Icelandic, because the form “illwhale” appears on the same page of Uno von Troil’s "Letters on Iceland" (London, 1780) as the passage quoted in the “Extracts” – though this erroneous form was altered to “Illhwele” in the second (1780) and third editions of Troil, one of which Melville might have used instead of the first edition. There is no way to conjecture what form appeared in Melville’s manuscript, but it seems unlikely that the form was “WHALE” (Melville apparently wished, after all, to represent a variety of words in this list). Under the circumstances, the best course seems to be to emend with the modern Icelandic word “hvalur”.” - Moby Dick, Or The Whale: Volume 6, Scholarly Edition. https://books.google.ru/books?redir_esc=y&hl=ru&id=mccZA9jAhfgC&q=ic... (p. 816).

>111 shelob: Interesting. I take it that Melville's manuscript no longer exists? However, regardless of the form used by him the duplication of 'whale' on the slipcase simply looks wrong. FS should never have used the list in the first place.

Three years on, what is the consensus on Moby Dick SE?