The Men of Austen

PBS - Masterpiece Theatre has a fun site on the men of the Jane Austen novels. You can vote for your favourite, but the really amusing part for me was the comparison of their wealth, converted to current US dollars. Have fun!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/austen/menofausten.html

Am a big Jane fan--and quite ready to avoid anachronistic judgmentalism about period values--yet must confess that this money side has occasionally caused me twinges. Jane is Jane is Jane, the art wins, no problem there. But the seeming attraction of many modern readers for some of these dubious codes gives me pause. Question: how seriously should today's male readers take these examples?

Jane Austen, with her man as content editor, showed the world that oen can indeed write a darn good romance and so with class and intelligence. I took such a model to heart; it inspired me to write and so with a genteel pen in hand.

As far as the men characters she wrote, non were quite so real to me than Frederick Wentworth. No one played that characrter better than Ciaran Hinds, in my opinion.

We were watching Persuasion on PBS the other night and had to stop, as it sickened me that the book was so lightly dis-regarded and the lines changed around. We went out and got the good 1995 version and watched it instead; it was far, far superior.

In watching, I noticed my husband had an unusualy smirk on his face the entire time. Afte awhile, I realized how similar in character the hero of Jane's tale was to him; I married an 'American' Captain Wentworth and didn't even know it. After 12 years and four children, you think I would have realized such by now, but ah well. He was tickled to know that my fantasty man was acutally him. I find said knowledge rather pleasing as well.

Nice topic, great group. - Meredith

I would choose Henry Crawford purely by looks (I have a huge crush on the actor from his role on the British television show Hex), but I voted for Fredrick Wentworth for personality. It was fun to see how much these men would be worth today, not that I have ever dated anyone based on their income.

I can't remember how much detail Jane Austen gives of the sources of wealth. Do we know where these men get their money from? For example, Edmund Bertram gets 700 pounds a year (worth $420,000 in current US funds). Obviously that's not from his job in the parish, so I'm guessing it must be family money. Which in the Bertram's case has something to do with trade, I believe. Does anyone have anymore info on this? I'm curious to know where Mr. Darcy's $10,000 a year (that's 6 million) comes from. What does his family do? And if they're just spending some old relative's nest egg, I wonder what that relative did. Does Austen detail any of this?

Um, it's slightly more complicated than this but the answer is 'land.' Before the industrial revolution, England's wealth was almost entirely tied up land-owning and agriculture. Essentially (and bear in mind that I'm putting this in the most basic terms) tenant farmers leased the land from the land owners and worked upon it, generating enormous profits for said land owners. Mr Darcy's 10k is the yearly income generated by his land.

However, with the approach of the Industrial revolution came the rise of mercantile classes who generated their wealth through trade and industry and, essentially, the use of money itself through investments and speculation. Needless to say, old money looked down on new money (working has always been historically considered to be a most ungentlemanly pursuit) and new money aspired to be old money - this is perfectly illustrated in the relationship between Bingley and Darcy. Darcy has every reason (socially speaking) to be proud, and Bingley has every reason to defer to him.

This is horrendously simplified but it should give you a vague idea.

Yeah, I've heard this all before. But I have a mental block--I just can't picture anyone generating such enormous wealth by renting land. My family rents land, and we certainly don't make anything remotely resembling that. I guess one of the differences is that they also get a share of the money that the renter makes off the land (?).

Does anyone know how the other Austen men made their fortunes?

Is there a worse writer of men in the English language, or are we really that pitiful?

I'm wondering what it is that makes you find Austen's men "pitiful," A_musing...

Assuming that by "pitiful" you mean a character who is looked down on...

In several of her novels, the heroes come off better than the heroines -- Mr. Knightley is the best example, I think, but, Colonel Brandon, Captain Wentworth, Henry Tilney, and Edmund Bertram would all fit the bill as well. (Correct me if I'm wrong -- it's been several years since I've read anything other than P&P and Persuasion.)

Which is not to say that she doesn't write pitiful men -- but for every Mr. Collins or Mr. Willoughby, there's a Mrs. Bennett or a Mary Crawford.

In fact, one could even argue that the women get the raw end of the deal, due to the many sisters and cousins that compare unfavorably to our heroines (the Bennett sisters, the Bertram sisters, the Elliot sisters). Not to mention the fact that leading ladies like Emma, Marianne, and Catherine Moreland aren't especially admirable characters in the first place.

However, if by "pitiful" you mean "hopelessly in love", then let's look at George Wickham, William Elliot, or Henry Crawford. Sure, they're the bad boys, but the only thing pitiful about them is their habit of getting into debt.

It was my general feeling after looking at that link that had the "men of Jane Austen" - what a bunch of spoiled, good for nothing, posturing, faux-sincere lay-abouts they are! Not a one of them anyone with whom I could identify.

(And, they all have phony British accents, too!)

I do think the link is tongue-in-cheek... and should be taken accordingly :-P

OK, I picked Mr. Darcy, don't shoot me. But what is with the others on the list? They had some pretty shady characters up there. Is it because they are lining up cute actors from the movies? Wasn't Ms. Austen warning us to stay away from "those types of men?" I think that list should only be the wonderful, often misinterpreted, men that win out in the end. Not the cads that break women's hearts and make them cry.

Thanks for posting this though, it was very interesting.

Is this thing accurate? Wenthworth is richer than Darcy? Also, why does it say that Kellynch Hall is his place? Am I mis-remembering?

Well, it's not comparing apples and oranges . . . Darcy's worth is yearly income, and Wentworth's is net worth. I did a triple take at that one. It's hard to tell which man is richer . . . Darcy can make Wentworth's worth (say that 3 times fast!) in less than three years, but Wentworth could invest wisely and be even richer.

Oh aren't fictional characters fun? I would never talk about real people this way. :-)

Ah - I see. I missed that part. Thanks!

Nickelini - I suppose it is a bit peculiar when you draw attention to the land business. I suppose you could say that it's becuase when Europeans were striking out for the new world they'd had it with the landed gentry having all the power. Also bear in mind you have a lot more land over there ;) But this is all silly speculation, I am no economic historian.

I tend to quite like Austen's heroes; I rarely feel gushingly romantic about them but then I'm not really that sort of person but I do like them. Henry Tilney occasionally makes me want to strangle him, though, but I suppose that's part of his charm. And I never warmed to the Bertram boys.

A_musing, I'm curious - is there a writer whose heroes you prefer?

#16- But this is all silly speculation, I am no economic historian.

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Yes, and they are all fictional characters after all. But thanks for all your thoughts. It's all a world that I find fascinating and want to learn more about.

I don't gush over the Austen men either, but I do have a soft spot for Mr. Darcy when I imagine him as Colin Firth.

>10 A_musing: - but they have to be lay-abouts; if they worked they wouldn't be gentleman. This may cheer you up: by sticking to idea of a 'gentleman' most of their successors would be driven into financial difficulty by the industrial revolution.

#17

I didn't post this in the Green Dragon "famous people I've seen/met", since it doesn't really count.

However, once I was in the queue at a cash machine in Victoria, BC, perhaps 3 or 4 people back from the machine itself. I was standing with my hubby. Someone finished at the cash machine and went out the door as the whole queue shuffled forward. I didn't pay much attention.

Then my husband said: "That was Colin Firth just now."

I said: "What! What? WHAT?!?!?!" Peering around frantically, I just managed to see a dark head bobbing anonymously off in the crowd. I forebore from chasing it...

My hubby swears he was not having me on. (Firth has local family connections, so it's entirely reasonable he'd be in town.)

Aaaargh!

Nickelini - have you read What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens knew; It's not bad - and actually quite good on economics and estate law.

#20 - have you read What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens knew; It's not bad - and actually quite good on economics and estate law.

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Yes! In fact, I own not one but two copies of it. Great book. I'm currently taking a course on Victorian novels, so I'll be pulling it down off the shelf again soon.

#19: (Firth has local family connections, so it's entirely reasonable he'd be in town.)

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Aaargh! indeed. I have spent quite a bit of time in Victoria over the years and all I have seen are boring politicians. I will make sure that I keep my eyes open on future trips! Thanks for the tip (even though you probably didn't realize that you gave me a tip). :-)

You know, tragically, unless he was wearing a frilly shirt saturated with pond water I doubt I'd recognise Colin Firth in the street...

LOL. I think I'd also recognize him if he was wearing the reindeer jumper that he wears as Mr. Darcy in Bridget Jones's Diary. :-)

Nickelini, you own two copies of that book?

*schemes to think of ways to part Nickelini from one of said two books* :-P

Sorry, wisewoman, but I've promised it to someone already. We just have to wait for the mountain roads to clear so she can come and get it. I did check Abebooks, however, and there are lots of copies available, starting at under $2. It's a good investment. :-)

Ooh, thanks for the tip! :)

mess 3 Meredithgreene

Alright, you talked me into it. I must go and get the 1995 version.