OT: Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula Le Guin

I know there'll be some (many?) fans here, so a question more about the book itself rather than the FS production:

My book group has got this as the March choice. It's a group made up almost entirely of those who are not exactly fans of sci-fi, but are looking to stretch their reading horizons. We've got our meeting on Monday to discuss it, but in the chat we tend to indulge in on WhatsApp, it's apparent that most are struggling with it, and several are almost certainly going to DNF. I must admit to finding it hard going - tedious hard rather than actually difficult hard. The question has arisen more than once - why is this book so highly regarded? Obviously, we get the fact that it was a bit of groundbreaker in terms of gender attitudes etc, but surely that isn't the full explanation? I think it needs someone more enthusiastic about sci-fi to explain perhaps, but there's nobody really of that ilk in our group - at best we have 'occasional readers' (including me, but not much beyond the likes of Dune etc, of which I'm a fan). So, in the search for enlightenment and to add to our discussion, can anybody help?

So I really enjoy my sci-fi but to be honest I felt very similar. For me, I found there was very little that actually happened in terms of plot events and that it felt more like a thinly veiled essay on gender identities, gender equality etc. I finished the book but I probably wouldn't pick it up again in a hurry. I don't know if this one is reflective of Le Guin's other works but it's kind of put me off picking up Earthsea and The Dispossessed, both of which are also highly regarded.

>2 Kerl: “it felt more like a thinly veiled essay on gender identities, gender equality etc.”

I agree. I read the Easton Press signed limited edition not long ago because so many sci-fi buffs said it was wonderful, but I felt as if I were reading a sociology essay rather than a novel. There is little action or suspense.

I find this all a bit strange. I loved it! But I also did not regard it as a book about gender identities. To me it was primarily about the relationship between the two leading characters and the politics between the two factions. The gender themes were important but not as the primary mover of the book.

>2 Kerl: I'm a huge Le Guin fan, but her sci-fi is more in the vein of exploring social dynamics rather than adventure or even characterization. Sometimes this works for me (Lathe of Heaven) and sometimes it's tedious (Left Hand). I haven't read Dispossessed, but I gather it's one of her social dynamics exploration stories where the theme is class (or maybe colonialism? I forget).

Don't let this put you off A Wizard of Earthsea though. It is not the same sort of project at all. (There are also some gender themes in Tombs of Atuan and Tehanu, but also a lot else going on, so I at least didn't feel preached at.)

I have not read The Left Hand of Darkness. I have read her first sci-fi novel. I can't remember the name at the moment. I didn't enjoy the style as it was very low on plot and character.

The Wizard of Earthsea is a dramatically different writing style. It is a fun, quick read written in an elevated third person POV that was written for a young audience. The story is heavily influenced by Le Guin's Taoist beliefs and there is a lot beneath the surface. It was a very influential novel.

I'm going to read The Left Hand of Darkness at some point as I have a high regard for Le Guin's intellect. She wrote her own interpretation of the Tao Te Ching.

I really enjoy The Dispossessed and Earthsea a great deal more than Left hand of darkness but I still thought it provides a lot of thought provoking elements which tend to pop into you’re mind days and weeks after you have finished. Le Guin’s approach can be a bit heavy handed but there’s a way she has the ability to cut to the truth of matters highlighting what’s most important to be human and the majesty and futility of the cycle of life.

When I first tried reading it many years ago, I struggled with it. And I am a sci-fi fan, but I had never read anything by Le Guin. So, I had different expectations than one might reading a new book by an author whom they've read before. Like those above, I had a hard time understanding what was going on and why I should care. So, it was easy to put aside and forget.

Then I picked it up again a couple of years later, thinking maybe this time I might be able to "get it". And I was right. Suddenly, the lightbulb lit up. I already went in knowing how it starts. So, I guess that made it easier to bypass the beginning without feeling drained right away. I'm so glad I did because the latter stages of the novel are such an emotional gut punch, something I'm always searching for in literature. Up until that time, I don't think I had read any other novel that made me feel that much empathy for fictional characters.

There are a few themes that are discussed on an intellectual level, which is what prevented me from finishing it the first time because it seemed to be ALL intellectual. But if you read long enough, you'll reach the most striking bit, which is the connection between Genly and Estraven. That's where the novel starts to turn.

But not every book is for everyone. I've tried Beloved three times and still don't understand the fuss. Though, I think it's always worth it to come back to books we may have struggled with in the past. I've done that on a few occasions (including Left Hand, Dune, and Blood Meridian) and have been rewarded for it. Sometimes the headspace you're in at the time can dictate your feelings.

>2 Kerl: I don't know if this one is reflective of Le Guin's other works but it's kind of put me off picking up Earthsea and The Dispossessed

I've never read her SciFi, but I do agree with others who recommend Earthsea. I mostly agree with >5 abysswalker:, except I'd recommend to stick with the original trilogy - A Wizard of Earthsea, The Tombs of Atuan, The Farthest Shore. I really enjoyed those three when I was in my teens. And unlike many fantasy/SciFi series, all three books are very, very different, in a good way. Reading one does not give you a feel for how the next is going to be, which makes it a memorable and interesting trilogy. I'd have a hard time rating the three comparatively right now, I'd have to re-read them, but unless my memory fails me badly, there is no dip after the first book, and the next two might even be stronger.

But Tehanu, the fourth novel written much later, is nothing but an excuse for a heavy-handed lecturing, I felt. Did not finish and would not recommend to anyone, especially those who struggled with some of her other writings because of preaching/focusing on her social views.

I loved Left Hand, but I would not generally recommend it as someone's first sci-fi book. Le Guin's father was a noted anthropologist and sometimes it comes out in her work--Left Hand is partially about how physical genderfluidity would affect culture (IMO).

The SciFi group here may have some better recommendations based on what your group typically enjoys.

>1 Willoyd: Read when I was 14 or maybe 15, this was my first Le Guin novel, having previously read some of her (excellent) short stories. At that time it really bowled me over, although I don’t think I was thinking about gender attitudes, but more as >10 Watry: has said, about how physical genderfluidity would affect culture.
I thought The Dispossessed even more impressive, but I didn’t really rate her other SF.
I have the FS editions of The Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossessed, but haven’t dared reread them yet, afraid they won’t stand up to my memories, as I do remember them as, didactic perhaps.

I read the Earthsea trilogy (as was) a couple of years later, very different, for younger readers and so very accessible, but more layered, and I really enjoyed rereading a couple of years ago.

Oy. The whole Earthsea cycle is amazing. You are selling yourself short by stopping at The Farthest Shore. (Pun Intended). So many questions answered and puzzles solved in the subsequent books.

And can you blame an author for a little bit of lecturing when the publishing world (and readers) refuse to acknowledge basic and fundamental components of your work? Ged, and all the "heroes" of the cycle except Tanar, are people of color. Yet it took decades of fighting with her publishers for Ged to be anything but white on the covers. I think I remember her writing that it was the 2018 illustrated Books of Earthsea where it finally happened.

But good fiction, for me, increases my understanding of the world. It allows authors to fit many things into one manuscript that wouldn't be possible in non-fiction. So reading good fiction from Ursula Le Guin makes us think about gender, patriarchy and erasure of women's history, race, introversion, time effects of space travel and other things while we enjoy a cracking good story. I'm a Tolkien nerd to the nth degree but he never made me think half as hard as Le Guin, except maybe how maybe living forever could be very tiresome, even with Liv Tyler.

I will be reading Le Guin over and over until I go to the Halls of Mandos, er, I mean until I die. Letterpress fine/private press editions would be a no-brainer for me (unless Ged was illustrated white ;)

I read it recently, and I loved it. It does start a bit slowly as you get familiar with the various names and relationships, but I find the same challenge with most sci-fi and fantasy.

While critics loves the gender aspect, I don't think that's what makes the book so good. Yes, the idea of a gender fluid society is done very well, but that's just part of the overall world Le Guin creates - and things like the extreme climate, lack of animals, approach to technology, and philosophy of fate, do a lot to make the world feel very alien for the envoy and the reader. In fact, by gender being less important in this world, it arguably makes all the other aspects more striking.

For me, it was this world and its story, getting to see the brilliantly drawn relationship between the two main characters, and Le Guin's beautiful prose that made it a great book.

The construction of the story is very elegant, with a kind of rhythm which goes between lulls and moments of great intensity, which I haven't seen done in quite the same way before.

Overall, I think anyone focusing on it from a gender attitudes perspective is making a big mistake - it's a great sci-fi novel because it has a great story in a wonderful alien world. You read it to drink this world in.

Also, the Folio edition is one of my favourites they have ever produced, and I think it fits the story's atmosphere perfectly.

>12 jveezer: According to Le Guin, introduction to Saga Press Complete Earthsea, the first edition of Wizard had a coloured face on the cover. She didn't permit illustrated editions until the Folio Society edition in 2015, which showed a person with brown skin. Her objection was to cover art for e.g. Puffin paperback editions.

Some fascinating responses, thank you. I'm surprised, a bit relieved and also even a little disappointed that we're not alone in our ambivalence (that last is absolutely no reflection on people's comments, more about our uninformed expectations of the book).
I'm now about half way through, and it is slowly growing on me. The gender issue is, of course, at the heart, but Le Guin had just been talking about aspects of 'civilisation' which are sooo relevant to our current geopolitical state, it's almost prescient. She is certainly making me sit up and think. As already suggested, it still feels rather too much like a "thinly veiled essay", but I am enjoying being prodded too, and the novel side of things is slowly emerging. As a bit of an aside, but relevant to my enjoyment of such books, do find the alternative languages/words that sci-fi writers like to pepper their work with really tedious and distracting, as if they want to impress me with the 'alienness' of their book (some work much better than others: I slipped into the Arabic style of language in Dune without a murmur). So I will certainly not DNF, and would continue to enjoy people's thoughts here - helping me a lot to think this one through - thank you all.

Interesting views. I don’t normally read fiction and have not read any Le Guin but reading this thread what most upset me and stressed me out was that I didn’t know what the acronym DNF was. It took me a while to look it up. How long does it take for someone just to write that they “did not finish” reading the book.

>16 ironjaw:
Personally, I was an FBWIH (finished but wished I hadn’t).

>15 Willoyd:

'the alternative languages/words that sci-fi writers like to pepper their work with really tedious and distracting, as if they want to impress me with the 'alienness' of their book'

That's the point, obviously: to give you an 'alien' perspective on things; seeing the world from a new point of view. But I understand how it can backfire if it doesn't resonate with the reader. And it doesn't always date well. I think that's one of the reasons I like Book of the New Sun so much: Wolfe uses deliberately archaic and obscure (but real) words to evoke the future. And his world has regressed to a point where, while it does rely on what we would think of as futuristic technology, it's almost as much ritual and alchemy as science.

There's a parallel with Lord of the Rings: a loss of knowledge and history; that deep background the characters know or begin to learn and understand, which we can only begin to delve into. What was once known is mysterious and magical and was beyond our reach but reaches out and touches our hearts and minds.

:-)

>17 jroger1: Ha! Nice one.

It’s getting harder to read these days as all different and outlandish acronyms are popping up. Not that I have anything against acronyms themselves but what I am seeing is a laziness in writing out something that’s not supposed to or never was an acronym in the first place. For example, take IDK for I don’t know. I’ll take it if it’s just one acronym response but it’s creeping up in sentences and paragraphs. Another one is ISO, In Search Of. What was wrong with Wanted or merely looking for. And ISO just reminds me of the CDROM/DVD images from the 90s and 2000s so I became confused quite quickly.

Rant over. I’ll go and hide in my hole.

Oh and the iPhone’s autocorrect is infuriating that I’m just thinking about going back to a normal non-smart phone.

>19 ironjaw:
Go to Settings - General - Keyboard to turn off Autocorrect on an iPhone. I find it infuriating too, almost as much as obscure acronyms.

The most important acronym to remember is TMA - Too Many Acronyms

I'm a member of the AAAAAAAA. The Association for the Abolition of All Absolutely Awful And Appalling Acronyms.

>20 jroger1:

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

That's the most important thing I'll learn today (maybe this week).

>18 Cat_of_Ulthar:
All good points.
LHOD kept growing on me, and by the end I was glad to have read it - the last hundred pages or so were particularly engaging. It generated an excellent discussion, one of the best we've had (and it's a good group for that), as much over people's feelings about sci-fi in general as about the book itself. One of those occasions where breaking out of our collective comfort zone proved to be thoroughly worthwhile. I'm intrigued to try more of her work some time.

>19 ironjaw:

Seriously, one of the reasons that led me to contemplate retirement some years ago was the fact that every business meeting I attended was being conducted not in English but almost entirely in acronyms. When I came out not understanding what we had been talking about I thought, "YOLO. It's TTHUMH."

"You only live once. It's time to hang up my hat."

>20 jroger1:

THANK YOU. I feel so stupid for not knowing that. A whole mountain has fallen off my shoulders.