Sex abuse Scandal, US Catholic Church
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5John5918
>4 brone:
Yes, very tragic. I myself always thought of Jean Vanier as a "great Christian", as apparently did your "PF", whoever those initials stand for, and much of the rest of the world. There's no doubt L'Arche did a lot of good, and Vanier's writings have been very helpful for many people. I think it shows how devious sexual abusers can be at hiding their activities for many years, decades even, grooming and intimidating their victims into silence. Most sexual abusers (at least before the internet era of online grooming) are not some shadowy figure "out there" but someone we know, love and trust - a parent, a relative, a friend, a neighbour, a teacher, a priest, a sports coach, a scoutmaster, a work colleague, a police officer - and the first reaction when their abuse is exposed is always complete disbelief that this person could have done such a thing. I know personally some sexual abusers who have been caught, and I suspect all of us unwittingly know sexual abusers who have not yet been caught, and we will be shocked when we learn of them.
We're constantly discovering historic cases of abuse in churches and faith communities, not only the Catholic Church, but most faith communities have now put in place robust safeguarding protocols to limit sexual abuse and to prevent cover ups - I say "limit" because there will always be abusers and as with any crime, no matter how vigilant a society is, it is impossible to eradicate it completely. I'm familiar to some extent or other with the safeguarding protocols and procedures in a number of Catholic dioceses and organisations, and the Anglican communion. I know a lot of bishops, priests and laity who are working very hard on this issue. I'm sure you're aware that Pope Francis has just extended the scope of the Catholic Church's norms concerning sexual abuse to include lay leaders of Catholic organisations and not just clergy, so this would include the likes of Vanier (link). As new cases emerge, faith communities are learning and adapting. Our prayers are with the victims and all those who are working to prevent abuse, and we must pray also for the perpetrators.
Yes, very tragic. I myself always thought of Jean Vanier as a "great Christian", as apparently did your "PF", whoever those initials stand for, and much of the rest of the world. There's no doubt L'Arche did a lot of good, and Vanier's writings have been very helpful for many people. I think it shows how devious sexual abusers can be at hiding their activities for many years, decades even, grooming and intimidating their victims into silence. Most sexual abusers (at least before the internet era of online grooming) are not some shadowy figure "out there" but someone we know, love and trust - a parent, a relative, a friend, a neighbour, a teacher, a priest, a sports coach, a scoutmaster, a work colleague, a police officer - and the first reaction when their abuse is exposed is always complete disbelief that this person could have done such a thing. I know personally some sexual abusers who have been caught, and I suspect all of us unwittingly know sexual abusers who have not yet been caught, and we will be shocked when we learn of them.
We're constantly discovering historic cases of abuse in churches and faith communities, not only the Catholic Church, but most faith communities have now put in place robust safeguarding protocols to limit sexual abuse and to prevent cover ups - I say "limit" because there will always be abusers and as with any crime, no matter how vigilant a society is, it is impossible to eradicate it completely. I'm familiar to some extent or other with the safeguarding protocols and procedures in a number of Catholic dioceses and organisations, and the Anglican communion. I know a lot of bishops, priests and laity who are working very hard on this issue. I'm sure you're aware that Pope Francis has just extended the scope of the Catholic Church's norms concerning sexual abuse to include lay leaders of Catholic organisations and not just clergy, so this would include the likes of Vanier (link). As new cases emerge, faith communities are learning and adapting. Our prayers are with the victims and all those who are working to prevent abuse, and we must pray also for the perpetrators.
8John5918
>7 brone:
As usual you do not cite any source. I've found several articles related to this story. Let's take the AP story, Catholic church in Maryland slammed after sex abuse report, as representative.
I note a few points. This is about historical abuse going back 80 years. It is not about current abuse. The archdiocese had released a list of priests associated with child sexual abuse, but it seems some names were omitted. The sexual abuse survivors' group SNAP is quoted as saying that some omissions “might be understandable”, while calling for the archbishop to “err on the side of being more transparent”. The archdiocese acknowledged the discrepancies. 33 of the 39 missing names have died, and most didn’t make the list because they are laypeople, including deacons and teachers; they were never assigned to ministry in the Archdiocese of Baltimore; or they were first accused posthumously and received only a single, uncorroborated allegation. The archdiocese is reviewing its list “in light of the Attorney General’s report” and expects to add more names soon, probably expanding the list to include non-priests. The current archbishop did not contest the allegations in the report, saying in a statement that it served as a “sad and painful reminder of the tremendous harm caused to innocent children and young people by some ministers of the Church” (link). And the State of Maryland is passing legislation that would eliminate the existing statute of limitations on civil litigation against institutions like the archdiocese in cases of child sexual abuse, which should help to investigate and prosecute these historical cases.
As usual you do not cite any source. I've found several articles related to this story. Let's take the AP story, Catholic church in Maryland slammed after sex abuse report, as representative.
I note a few points. This is about historical abuse going back 80 years. It is not about current abuse. The archdiocese had released a list of priests associated with child sexual abuse, but it seems some names were omitted. The sexual abuse survivors' group SNAP is quoted as saying that some omissions “might be understandable”, while calling for the archbishop to “err on the side of being more transparent”. The archdiocese acknowledged the discrepancies. 33 of the 39 missing names have died, and most didn’t make the list because they are laypeople, including deacons and teachers; they were never assigned to ministry in the Archdiocese of Baltimore; or they were first accused posthumously and received only a single, uncorroborated allegation. The archdiocese is reviewing its list “in light of the Attorney General’s report” and expects to add more names soon, probably expanding the list to include non-priests. The current archbishop did not contest the allegations in the report, saying in a statement that it served as a “sad and painful reminder of the tremendous harm caused to innocent children and young people by some ministers of the Church” (link). And the State of Maryland is passing legislation that would eliminate the existing statute of limitations on civil litigation against institutions like the archdiocese in cases of child sexual abuse, which should help to investigate and prosecute these historical cases.
10aspirit
I usually stay out of this group. Also, brone's posts are difficult to follow, so I won't reply to them directly.
However, I'm here because at the same time I'm looking up materials to introduce my child to contemporary (opposed to historical) Catholicism as a part of our home studies on the world's religions, I'm repeatedly faced with mention of the sexual perversions of church leaders targeting children and women.
Understanding the systematic culture of sexual abuse seems like an important part of understanding Catholicism and possibly Christianity as a whole in the affects of religious practices on people's daily lives.
So, I'm dropping links to return to when I can better stomach this news.
"Americans See Catholic Clergy Sex Abuse as an Ongoing Problem" | Pew Research Center | 2019
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/06/11/americans-see-catholic-clergy-se...
"The global scale of child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church" | Al Jazeera | 2021
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/5/awful-truth-child-sex-abuse-in-the-cath...
"FBI opens investigation into sex abuse in the Roman Catholic Church in New Orleans" (LA) | PBS | 2022
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-opens-investigation-into-sex-abuse-in-th...
"Church Sex Scandal Widens: Hundreds More Catholic Clergy Accused Across CA" | NBC (Cali's Bay Area) | Feb 2023
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/clergy-abuse-scandal-investigation/316...
"Child abuse found in Portugal Catholic Church is 'tip of iceberg', commission says" | Reuters | Feb 2023
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/thousands-abused-by-members-portuguese-chur...
belatedly found a missing link hiding beside another
However, I'm here because at the same time I'm looking up materials to introduce my child to contemporary (opposed to historical) Catholicism as a part of our home studies on the world's religions, I'm repeatedly faced with mention of the sexual perversions of church leaders targeting children and women.
Understanding the systematic culture of sexual abuse seems like an important part of understanding Catholicism and possibly Christianity as a whole in the affects of religious practices on people's daily lives.
So, I'm dropping links to return to when I can better stomach this news.
"Americans See Catholic Clergy Sex Abuse as an Ongoing Problem" | Pew Research Center | 2019
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/06/11/americans-see-catholic-clergy-se...
"The global scale of child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church" | Al Jazeera | 2021
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/5/awful-truth-child-sex-abuse-in-the-cath...
"FBI opens investigation into sex abuse in the Roman Catholic Church in New Orleans" (LA) | PBS | 2022
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-opens-investigation-into-sex-abuse-in-th...
"Church Sex Scandal Widens: Hundreds More Catholic Clergy Accused Across CA" | NBC (Cali's Bay Area) | Feb 2023
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/clergy-abuse-scandal-investigation/316...
"Child abuse found in Portugal Catholic Church is 'tip of iceberg', commission says" | Reuters | Feb 2023
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/thousands-abused-by-members-portuguese-chur...
belatedly found a missing link hiding beside another
11John5918
>10 aspirit:
Thanks for your post. You're right that it is difficult to stomach. There are no excuses. All I can say is that the Church has, far too slowly and timidly, put in place measures to make new cases of abuse far more difficult (no crime will ever be made completely impossible in any society), and has begun, again too slowly and inadequately, to deal with the cases of historical abuse. There are many, many Catholic bishops, priests, nuns and lay people working very hard to prevent abuse and to deal with the past cases, and the tide has definitely turned, the culture shifted, and some at least of the systemic issues are beginning to be addressed. There are few new cases and it is far more difficult to cover them up, but unfortunately there is still a small hard core who resist attempts to deal with the past. There is a lot of good in our Church, and it is a tragedy that there are some who still resist efforts to weed out the bad. As a committed Catholic, and as one who has played a small role in introducing and implementing safeguarding measures in my own bits of the Church, I suppose all I can say is, sorry, or in a phrase recognisable to Catholics, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Our hearts go out to the victims.
Thanks for your post. You're right that it is difficult to stomach. There are no excuses. All I can say is that the Church has, far too slowly and timidly, put in place measures to make new cases of abuse far more difficult (no crime will ever be made completely impossible in any society), and has begun, again too slowly and inadequately, to deal with the cases of historical abuse. There are many, many Catholic bishops, priests, nuns and lay people working very hard to prevent abuse and to deal with the past cases, and the tide has definitely turned, the culture shifted, and some at least of the systemic issues are beginning to be addressed. There are few new cases and it is far more difficult to cover them up, but unfortunately there is still a small hard core who resist attempts to deal with the past. There is a lot of good in our Church, and it is a tragedy that there are some who still resist efforts to weed out the bad. As a committed Catholic, and as one who has played a small role in introducing and implementing safeguarding measures in my own bits of the Church, I suppose all I can say is, sorry, or in a phrase recognisable to Catholics, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Our hearts go out to the victims.
14John5918
>13 brone: the Nobel peace prize the other a well known Latin American bishop
Could you name the bishop? The only Nobel Peace Prize winning bishop whom I can find who has been accused of sexual abuse is Carlos Filipe Ximenes Belo who is from East Timor, not Latin America. He is 75, not 87. When allegations were made, the Vatican promptly took action against him.
Could you name the bishop? The only Nobel Peace Prize winning bishop whom I can find who has been accused of sexual abuse is Carlos Filipe Ximenes Belo who is from East Timor, not Latin America. He is 75, not 87. When allegations were made, the Vatican promptly took action against him.
16aspirit
>15 brone: If this was bot-generated, then someone should adjust the inputs to ensure the message makes at least a little sense within the topic.
Anyway, I've copied my links above, so there's no need for me to return here again.
>11 John5918: good luck to you.
Anyway, I've copied my links above, so there's no need for me to return here again.
>11 John5918: good luck to you.
18MsMixte
>16 aspirit: I've often thought that John5918 has more patience than most mortals.
As for 15, I think you may be on to something! The only real explanation for broning on would be if the conversation is being generated by a bot. It also explains the persistent failure of the brone bot to cite references, and inability to make logical conclusions.
I'm going to do some thinking about that.
As for 15, I think you may be on to something! The only real explanation for broning on would be if the conversation is being generated by a bot. It also explains the persistent failure of the brone bot to cite references, and inability to make logical conclusions.
I'm going to do some thinking about that.
19John5918
>17 brone: a drag queen "twerking" in the face of a child of kindergarten age
In the UK we have a long tradition of performers dressing up as the opposite sex in family comedy pantomimes based on well known fairy tales, and it includes bawdy comic innuendo, which often passes over the heads of the younger children who are enthralled by the slapstick comedy, the songs and the audience interaction ("He's behind you!" "Oh no he isn't!" "Oh yes he is!" "Oh no he isn't!" "Oh yes he is!" repeated ad nauseam) while the adults snigger at the double entendre, a classic form of British humour. These range from high profile performances featuring famous actors and celebrities, to local amateur productions. There's usually a man dressed as a comedic cantankerous old woman such as a Widow Twankie figure, or the two sisters in Cinderella, the evil queen in Snow White, the witch in Hansel and Gretel. The young male lead is traditionally played by a woman dressed as a man, such as Dick Whittington, Prince Charming, Aladdin or Peter Pan. Families have taken their kindergarten age children to see this for generations, and it's considered a normal and much anticipated form of family entertainment, especially over the Christmas and summer holiday seasons. Good, harmless, traditional family fun.
In these more enlightened times there are questions as to whether some of the traditional pantomime lyrics are racist, sexist and homophobic, but pantomimes are still immensely popular and I don't think there's any traction in claiming they "destroy the innocence of all children". We British are considered rather prudish compared to the rest of Europe, but it seems Americans out-prude us! Long may pantomimes continue to delight innocent young children!
In the UK we have a long tradition of performers dressing up as the opposite sex in family comedy pantomimes based on well known fairy tales, and it includes bawdy comic innuendo, which often passes over the heads of the younger children who are enthralled by the slapstick comedy, the songs and the audience interaction ("He's behind you!" "Oh no he isn't!" "Oh yes he is!" "Oh no he isn't!" "Oh yes he is!" repeated ad nauseam) while the adults snigger at the double entendre, a classic form of British humour. These range from high profile performances featuring famous actors and celebrities, to local amateur productions. There's usually a man dressed as a comedic cantankerous old woman such as a Widow Twankie figure, or the two sisters in Cinderella, the evil queen in Snow White, the witch in Hansel and Gretel. The young male lead is traditionally played by a woman dressed as a man, such as Dick Whittington, Prince Charming, Aladdin or Peter Pan. Families have taken their kindergarten age children to see this for generations, and it's considered a normal and much anticipated form of family entertainment, especially over the Christmas and summer holiday seasons. Good, harmless, traditional family fun.
In these more enlightened times there are questions as to whether some of the traditional pantomime lyrics are racist, sexist and homophobic, but pantomimes are still immensely popular and I don't think there's any traction in claiming they "destroy the innocence of all children". We British are considered rather prudish compared to the rest of Europe, but it seems Americans out-prude us! Long may pantomimes continue to delight innocent young children!
20MarthaJeanne
I think the innocence of the children is more likely to be hurt by having to pass through a demonstration to get to a book reading that their parents have chosen to take them to.
Far right activists have been demonstrating about a children's book reading here in Vienna at the House where LGBT+ people get support. The whole big deal made of it made me wish I had children to take to the event.
Far right activists have been demonstrating about a children's book reading here in Vienna at the House where LGBT+ people get support. The whole big deal made of it made me wish I had children to take to the event.
25John5918
Pope Francis says abusive Catholic clergy 'deserve punishment' (NCR)
Punishing and condemning those guilty of clergy sexual abuse is an act of charity, Pope Francis said. "The abuser is an enemy. Each of us feels this because we empathize with the suffering of the abused," he said... Those guilty of abuse "deserve punishment, but they also deserve pastoral care"...
27John5918
John Sentamu forced to step down from C of E after failing to act on abuse claims (Guardian)
One of many examples showing that sex abuse and failure by the institution to act on it is not limited to the Catholic Church, or for that matter to the Christian faith community. This is a historical case, from forty years ago, and the retired archbishop contests the findings of the report. I had the privilege of working with him for a few days many years ago on a retreat for Catholic and Anglican bishops in South Sudan.
Former archbishop of York found to have failed to act on allegations of child sexual abuse by vicar...
One of many examples showing that sex abuse and failure by the institution to act on it is not limited to the Catholic Church, or for that matter to the Christian faith community. This is a historical case, from forty years ago, and the retired archbishop contests the findings of the report. I had the privilege of working with him for a few days many years ago on a retreat for Catholic and Anglican bishops in South Sudan.
30John5918
>29 brone:
Is homosexuality really a "problem", or is it simply an issue which all Christian churches are struggling to come to terms with in the light of our current understanding of sexuality?
There has always been and still is a very large number of homosexual bishops and priests, so this is actually not a new thing. There's a thread somewhere on LT with the title "The Catholic Church is hoaching with gay priests", quoting from a published article, and there's another thread somewhere about gay saints. I'm travelling at the moment and can't immediately find them on my phone, but if anyone wants, I can cite them next week.
As for every word in Holy Scripture condemning it, that is simply not true. There are actually very few references to it in the bible, and each of them needs to be unpacked in its specific context using the tools of biblical exegesis.
And while it may be true that 2000 years of Church teaching condemns it, in practice, for most of that period, the Church has been very tolerant of homosexual clergy on a "don't ask, don't tell" basis.
And finally, homosexuality per se has nothing to do with sexual abuse. There is a minority of both homosexual and heterosexual clergy who commit abuse, while the vast majority of both sexual orientations don't.
Is homosexuality really a "problem", or is it simply an issue which all Christian churches are struggling to come to terms with in the light of our current understanding of sexuality?
There has always been and still is a very large number of homosexual bishops and priests, so this is actually not a new thing. There's a thread somewhere on LT with the title "The Catholic Church is hoaching with gay priests", quoting from a published article, and there's another thread somewhere about gay saints. I'm travelling at the moment and can't immediately find them on my phone, but if anyone wants, I can cite them next week.
As for every word in Holy Scripture condemning it, that is simply not true. There are actually very few references to it in the bible, and each of them needs to be unpacked in its specific context using the tools of biblical exegesis.
And while it may be true that 2000 years of Church teaching condemns it, in practice, for most of that period, the Church has been very tolerant of homosexual clergy on a "don't ask, don't tell" basis.
And finally, homosexuality per se has nothing to do with sexual abuse. There is a minority of both homosexual and heterosexual clergy who commit abuse, while the vast majority of both sexual orientations don't.
31MarthaJeanne
This reminds me of the person I met on the internet years ago who wanted HIV to spread more and kill all the homosexuals because he had been sexually attacked as a boy, which shouldn't have happened because 'That's what girls are for.'
33John5918
>28 brone: Our Lady appeared at Fatima
You'll be pleased about this bit of news!
Pope Francis to Travel to Portugal for August World Youth Day, to Visit Fatima (ACI Africa)
You'll be pleased about this bit of news!
Pope Francis to Travel to Portugal for August World Youth Day, to Visit Fatima (ACI Africa)
The Vatican announced Monday that Pope Francis will travel to Lisbon, Portugal, for World Youth Day this August with a visit to the Shrine of Our Lady of Fatima...
36John5918
>35 brone: Pray it won't be long before this generation of abusive priests and the big shot popes and cdls who enable them are gone
Indeed most of them are from an ageing generation and will not be with us for too much longer. May they rest in peace as they face judgement by the only Judge who is both truly just and infinitely merciful. But it is not just one generation. Sexual abuse and its cover up, whether by clergy or by anybody else, is a perennial problem which goes back millennia if not to the beginning of modern human existence hundreds of thousand years ago. Snide remarks about fine Italian restaurants will not make it go away, but the measures which churches and other institutions are implementing, as well as increased awareness within society at large, can at least reduce the opportunities for sexual abuse and make it more difficult to cover up. The tone of your posts suggests schadenfreude and a desire to snipe at church leaders whom you disagree with on an ideological basis rather than a genuine attempt to deal with the issue.
Indeed most of them are from an ageing generation and will not be with us for too much longer. May they rest in peace as they face judgement by the only Judge who is both truly just and infinitely merciful. But it is not just one generation. Sexual abuse and its cover up, whether by clergy or by anybody else, is a perennial problem which goes back millennia if not to the beginning of modern human existence hundreds of thousand years ago. Snide remarks about fine Italian restaurants will not make it go away, but the measures which churches and other institutions are implementing, as well as increased awareness within society at large, can at least reduce the opportunities for sexual abuse and make it more difficult to cover up. The tone of your posts suggests schadenfreude and a desire to snipe at church leaders whom you disagree with on an ideological basis rather than a genuine attempt to deal with the issue.
40John5918
>39 brone:
Throughout the ages Christ has been depicted in a manner which is meaningful to a particular culture, demographic, time and place. Most of us westerners probably grew up with images of a rather effete-looking pale-skinned Italianate Jesus with long curly hair, which bears no relation whatsoever to what the real Jesus would have looked like. But that's OK. Although he was physically incarnated into a particular human body, he came to redeem all human beings, and is incarnated into all peoples and places. From very early times Ethiopian Christians depicted Christ as African, and in recent decades there has been a revival of that practice in many parts of Africa. There's a thread on it somewhere on LT. Likewise I recall in recent years a statue of Christ as a homeless person sleeping on a park bench, not so strange given that Jesus himself experienced homelessness; born in a cowshed, later a refugee in a foreign land, and as he himself said, "the Son of Man has no place to lay his head." (Matthew 8:20)
Throughout the ages Christ has been depicted in a manner which is meaningful to a particular culture, demographic, time and place. Most of us westerners probably grew up with images of a rather effete-looking pale-skinned Italianate Jesus with long curly hair, which bears no relation whatsoever to what the real Jesus would have looked like. But that's OK. Although he was physically incarnated into a particular human body, he came to redeem all human beings, and is incarnated into all peoples and places. From very early times Ethiopian Christians depicted Christ as African, and in recent decades there has been a revival of that practice in many parts of Africa. There's a thread on it somewhere on LT. Likewise I recall in recent years a statue of Christ as a homeless person sleeping on a park bench, not so strange given that Jesus himself experienced homelessness; born in a cowshed, later a refugee in a foreign land, and as he himself said, "the Son of Man has no place to lay his head." (Matthew 8:20)
42John5918
>41 brone: 85,000 thousand children are missing in the US due to the insane open border policies of the Church and State
Can you explain (or cite a reference for) what "open border policies" have to do with missing children? Unless you're referring to the thousands of children who have gone missing as a result of US border officials separating them from their parents? And incidentally, as any non-US citizen will tell you, the USA has anything but an "open border policy". Have you any idea how difficult it is to get a visa to the USA?
But yes, the Church does generally support the rights of refugees and asylum seekers. Jesus, Mary and Joseph were refugees from violence in their own country, and as Jesus teaches us, "I was a stranger and you made me welcome... In truth I tell you, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did it to me" (Matthew 25:31-46).
Can you explain (or cite a reference for) what "open border policies" have to do with missing children? Unless you're referring to the thousands of children who have gone missing as a result of US border officials separating them from their parents? And incidentally, as any non-US citizen will tell you, the USA has anything but an "open border policy". Have you any idea how difficult it is to get a visa to the USA?
But yes, the Church does generally support the rights of refugees and asylum seekers. Jesus, Mary and Joseph were refugees from violence in their own country, and as Jesus teaches us, "I was a stranger and you made me welcome... In truth I tell you, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did it to me" (Matthew 25:31-46).
44John5918
>43 brone: homosexual men joined the priesthood, with no intention of following the sexual restrictions required. It is dishonest and subversive. So a whole generation of boomers did their thing and here we are today, with everyone bashing the Church, while the Church under its boomer thumb continues to cover up and ignore the long-term causes which brought these abuses about
Neither homosexual priests nor clergy sexual abuse began with the so-called "boomer generation". They have been around for a very long time, probably since the Church first became a staid institution rather than a radical movement. What has happened in our lifetime, thank God, most notably after the Second Vatican Council, is a new openness which allowed the conspiracy of silence to be broken at last. Homosexual priests found a new climate where they could begin to be more honest about who they are, while sexual abuse (which is a completely different issue) was named and shamed for what it is, child rape, and measures were put in place to reduce both the crime and the cover ups.
Neither homosexual priests nor clergy sexual abuse began with the so-called "boomer generation". They have been around for a very long time, probably since the Church first became a staid institution rather than a radical movement. What has happened in our lifetime, thank God, most notably after the Second Vatican Council, is a new openness which allowed the conspiracy of silence to be broken at last. Homosexual priests found a new climate where they could begin to be more honest about who they are, while sexual abuse (which is a completely different issue) was named and shamed for what it is, child rape, and measures were put in place to reduce both the crime and the cover ups.
45MarthaJeanne
Both homosexual and heterosexual clergy have participated in sexual abuse recently and historically.
47John5918
>46 brone: men dressed up as women performing Drag Queen Story hours in libraries across the country
I've mentioned before somewhere on LT that in the UK it is not at all unusual for children to be entertained by performers dressed as the opposite sex. It's most common in pantomimes; good family entertainment, plenty of audience interaction, music and slapstick, with innuendo, double entendre and jokes which might be considered a little risque at times. The leading male role is often played by a woman dressed as a young man, and there is usually a comic female character played by a man dressed as a woman. It doesn't seem to have confused generations of British children, possible because their parents are not making any fuss about it and are joining their offspring in enjoying it for what it is - entertainment.
I've mentioned before somewhere on LT that in the UK it is not at all unusual for children to be entertained by performers dressed as the opposite sex. It's most common in pantomimes; good family entertainment, plenty of audience interaction, music and slapstick, with innuendo, double entendre and jokes which might be considered a little risque at times. The leading male role is often played by a woman dressed as a young man, and there is usually a comic female character played by a man dressed as a woman. It doesn't seem to have confused generations of British children, possible because their parents are not making any fuss about it and are joining their offspring in enjoying it for what it is - entertainment.
48MarthaJeanne
Every now and then I see male Catholic religious on the street in skirts.
51John5918
>50 brone: these boomer cardinals are expert at covering up and circling the wagons
I would say quite the opposite. These days potential cover-ups are not working, as can be seen by the fact that a state attorney general is dealing with the case you mention. If you want to see "experts at covering up and circling the wagons", you have to go back to the pre-Vatican II church, before the new openness allowed the cover-ups to be exposed.
I would say quite the opposite. These days potential cover-ups are not working, as can be seen by the fact that a state attorney general is dealing with the case you mention. If you want to see "experts at covering up and circling the wagons", you have to go back to the pre-Vatican II church, before the new openness allowed the cover-ups to be exposed.
52MarthaJeanne
A British RC bishop has been removed and reported on because 'showed a "lack of understanding" of safeguarding or a "complete disregard for it", the review concluded.'
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-65855035
I think the main thing to note here is that he was bishop from 2019 - 2022. In just over three years he had to step down.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-65855035
I think the main thing to note here is that he was bishop from 2019 - 2022. In just over three years he had to step down.
53John5918
>52 MarthaJeanne:
Indeed. The very fact that the Church now has a Catholic Safeguarding Standards Agency, and that action was taken against this bishop, is a huge step forward from the situation a few decades ago, although as Archbishop McMahon says, there's still an endless cycle of work to be done.
Indeed. The very fact that the Church now has a Catholic Safeguarding Standards Agency, and that action was taken against this bishop, is a huge step forward from the situation a few decades ago, although as Archbishop McMahon says, there's still an endless cycle of work to be done.
54John5918
Church hands over ‘voluminous documents’ about accused US ex-priest (Guardian)
Marko Rupnik expelled from Jesuits (Tablet)
The second-oldest archdiocese in the US has handed over “voluminous documents” involving a retired Roman Catholic priest – and accused serial predator – to the New Orleans district attorney’s office as prosecutors investigate an allegation that the cleric manhandled and raped a child decades earlier... In 2019, Hebert filed a lawsuit accusing priest Lawrence Hecker of molesting him decades earlier, when the plaintiff was a minor... as a child decades earlier, he had been “choked out and raped” by Hecker after meeting him through a local Catholic institution...
Marko Rupnik expelled from Jesuits (Tablet)
The priest and artist Father Marko Rupnik, accused of the physical and psychological abuse of numerous religious sisters, was dismissed from the Jesuits this month, according to the religious order. The Society of Jesus said in a statement today that Rupnik was expelled due to his “stubborn refusal to observe the vow of obedience”... In February, the Jesuits said they had opened a new internal procedure against Rupnik after receiving accusations against him spanning from 1985 to 2018. The “highly credible” accusations, they said, included claims of spiritual, psychological, and sexual abuse, and abuse of conscience... Rupnik’s superiors imposed certain restrictions on his ministry at the recommendation of the investigators. The restrictions, according to the Society of Jesus, were “to change communities and accept a new mission in which we offered him one last chance as a Jesuit to come to terms with his past and to give a clear signal to the many injured people who were testifying against him to enter a path of truth”. According to media reports Rupnik defied these orders and other restrictions in recent months...
57John5918
Revealed: New Orleans archdiocese concealed serial child molester for years (Guardian)
Lawrence Hecker confessed to superiors he had molested multiple teenagers but he was never prosecuted, secret documents show... Back in 1999, Hecker confessed to his superiors at the archdiocese of New Orleans that he had either sexually molested or otherwise shared a bed with multiple teenagers whom he met through his work as a Roman Catholic priest. The admitted conduct occurred during a 15-year period, beginning in the mid-1960s, which Hecker says “was a time of great change in the world and in the church, and I succumbed to its zeitgeist”. In a two-page statement given to local church authorities serving a region with about a half-million Catholics, Hecker says, “It was a time when I neglected spiritual direction, confession and most daily prayer.” Hecker confessed to the misconduct or abuse of seven teenagers between about 1966 and 1979, including “overtly sexual acts” or “affectionate … sex acts” with at least two individuals. In other cases, Hecker reported either fondling, mutual masturbation, nudity or bed sharing, including once on another overnight trip to a Texas theme park. Hecker’s confession said the late New Orleans archbishop Philip Hannan spoke with him about an accusation of sexual abuse in 1988. In 1996, Hannan’s successor as archbishop, the late Francis Schulte, received another allegation which the organization deemed unsubstantiated. Hecker’s 1999 admission arrived after one of his victims came forward with another complaint to the archdiocese. The organization responded in part by sending Hecker to an out-of-state psychiatric treatment facility which diagnosed him as a pedophile who rationalized, justified and took “little responsibility for his behavior”. The facility also recommended that the archdiocese prohibit Hecker from working with children, adolescents or other “particularly vulnerable” people. But Hecker did not stop working. In fact, after a sabbatical of a few months, the church ultimately allowed him to continue until his retirement in 2002...
58John5918
Supporter defends expelled Jesuit priest against 'lynching', says abuse claims unproven (NCR)
I have no idea of all the ins and outs of this case, no more I suspect than do many of those who comment publicly on it, but perhaps this is a reminder that due process is important. Everybody has the right to a fair trial, and trial by the press, social media and ideological opponents of the pope and the Jesuits is certainly not helpful to anybody, including the alleged victims. The writer of this letter refers to "a media campaign based on defamatory and unproven accusations... as opposed to providing the press with correct information based on acts and documents in their possession, demonstrating a different truth from what was being published." It's no accident that in British law there are restrictions on the reporting of criminal cases before and during the investigation and trial, so that jurors will not be influenced by the media and will base their verdict on the evidence presented in court, not on partisan rumour, partial information, gossip and innuendo. While respecting the victims and avoiding cover ups, even alleged criminals need to be treated with both justice and charity - a difficult and sensitive balance. The normal practice when a priest is accused of sexual assault is for him to be suspended from public activities while the case is investigated, and from my reading it seems that this is the substantive reason why the Jesuits have taken disciplinary action against him, because he has refused to abide by the terms of his suspension. It is not yet a finding of guilt against him.
The head of a religious art and culture center founded by a disgraced Jesuit priest came to his defense June 17 after he was expelled from the Jesuit religious order following allegations of sexual, spiritual and psychological abuse against adult women. Maria Campatelli, director of the Rome-based Aletti Center, said the claims against Fr. Marko Ivan Rupnik were "defamatory and unproven" and amounted to a form of mediatic "lynching" against the Slovene priest and his art center. The Jesuits announced this week that Rupnik had been expelled from the order June 9 because of "stubborn refusal to observe the vow of obedience." The Jesuits acted after Rupnik had been accused by several women of sexual, spiritual and psychological abuses over a 30-year period...
I have no idea of all the ins and outs of this case, no more I suspect than do many of those who comment publicly on it, but perhaps this is a reminder that due process is important. Everybody has the right to a fair trial, and trial by the press, social media and ideological opponents of the pope and the Jesuits is certainly not helpful to anybody, including the alleged victims. The writer of this letter refers to "a media campaign based on defamatory and unproven accusations... as opposed to providing the press with correct information based on acts and documents in their possession, demonstrating a different truth from what was being published." It's no accident that in British law there are restrictions on the reporting of criminal cases before and during the investigation and trial, so that jurors will not be influenced by the media and will base their verdict on the evidence presented in court, not on partisan rumour, partial information, gossip and innuendo. While respecting the victims and avoiding cover ups, even alleged criminals need to be treated with both justice and charity - a difficult and sensitive balance. The normal practice when a priest is accused of sexual assault is for him to be suspended from public activities while the case is investigated, and from my reading it seems that this is the substantive reason why the Jesuits have taken disciplinary action against him, because he has refused to abide by the terms of his suspension. It is not yet a finding of guilt against him.
59John5918
>47 John5918:
British extremists are importing tactics from the US hard right. Their target? Family drag shows (Guardian)
Reinforcing the message that in the UK drag shows are seen as traditional family entertainment by all except a few small groups of twelve extremists. The article mentions Dame Edna Everage, but as I watch old British comedies on YouTube I see many of our much-loved comedians routinely doing drag sketches - Monty Python, Blackadder, the Two Ronnies, Dick Emery, Fry and Laurie, Bennie Hill, Morecambe and Wise, the "Carry On" series of comedy films, etc, etc, plus of course Mrs Brown's Boys from Ireland.
British extremists are importing tactics from the US hard right. Their target? Family drag shows (Guardian)
The debate over what is appropriate for children is important, but it has been co-opted at protests using abusive tactics... Drag and cross-dressing have been a part of British cultural expression for centuries. From Shakespeare plays to pantomime dames, and the late Barry Humphries’ creation Dame Edna Everage; playing with representations of gender in all its forms has long been widely enjoyed by audiences. Drag shows are a modern expression of this tradition, which is now being threatened by a coordinated campaign to silence it... small groups (rarely more than 12) using abusive and confrontational tactics routinely accused parents who were taking their children to the events of supporting paedophilia, or threatened to perform “citizen’s arrests” on the drag queens performing at them. Clashes between protesters and counter protesters or police broke out at a number of them. The groups spearheading this campaign often have ties to white supremacist movements or far-right extremism and have appropriated for political aims legitimate discussions about what is suitable entertainment and education for children, and at what age. They push a “groomer” narrative, reviving a decades-old attempt to baselessly associate the LGBTQ+ community with paedophilia...
Reinforcing the message that in the UK drag shows are seen as traditional family entertainment by all except a few small groups of twelve extremists. The article mentions Dame Edna Everage, but as I watch old British comedies on YouTube I see many of our much-loved comedians routinely doing drag sketches - Monty Python, Blackadder, the Two Ronnies, Dick Emery, Fry and Laurie, Bennie Hill, Morecambe and Wise, the "Carry On" series of comedy films, etc, etc, plus of course Mrs Brown's Boys from Ireland.
62John5918
Child protection expert discusses new Vatican guidelines (Vatican News)
Teresa Devlin, a member of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors, stresses the importance of a newly announced global consultation on the body's Universal Guidelines... These guidelines were approved by the Commission during its recent Plenary Assembly...
64John5918
>47 John5918:
Another example of a man dressing as a woman in mainstream Britain, something deemed perfectly harmless by all except a handful of extreme ultra-conservatives influenced by US culture wars. Windsor Castle and the royal family are pretty conservative, incidentally.
BBC News: Grayson Perry accepts knighthood from Prince William at Windsor Castle
And more generally, vis a vis the constant attacks on LGBTQ people that we see in this group, I found the following personal story in the Guardian to be very moving. It's a reminder that being LGBTQ is not about ideology, indoctrination, grooming, culture wars, Church teaching. It's about individual human beings coming to terms with who they are, the situation in which they find themselves. Often they have to do so in a very hostile environment, facing discouragement and attacks from all sides, including from Christians who prioritise doctrinal tenets over and above Christian love, mercy, charity and pastoral care. If only more Christians would offer words of encouragement and affirmation instead of condemnation and hate.
A moment that changed me: I was gay, disabled, alienated. With seven kind words, my life began
Another example of a man dressing as a woman in mainstream Britain, something deemed perfectly harmless by all except a handful of extreme ultra-conservatives influenced by US culture wars. Windsor Castle and the royal family are pretty conservative, incidentally.
BBC News: Grayson Perry accepts knighthood from Prince William at Windsor Castle
And more generally, vis a vis the constant attacks on LGBTQ people that we see in this group, I found the following personal story in the Guardian to be very moving. It's a reminder that being LGBTQ is not about ideology, indoctrination, grooming, culture wars, Church teaching. It's about individual human beings coming to terms with who they are, the situation in which they find themselves. Often they have to do so in a very hostile environment, facing discouragement and attacks from all sides, including from Christians who prioritise doctrinal tenets over and above Christian love, mercy, charity and pastoral care. If only more Christians would offer words of encouragement and affirmation instead of condemnation and hate.
A moment that changed me: I was gay, disabled, alienated. With seven kind words, my life began
66John5918
>65 brone:
To me that reads more like a gossip column than a serious attempt to discuss sexual abuse in the Church.
To me that reads more like a gossip column than a serious attempt to discuss sexual abuse in the Church.
68John5918
>67 brone:
Pope Francis doesn't only preach to the choir or those who agree with him, but also reaches out to those who don't necessarily agree. In this meeting he had good advice for artists, no doubt hoping that some of it would rub off on this one.
Pope Francis doesn't only preach to the choir or those who agree with him, but also reaches out to those who don't necessarily agree. In this meeting he had good advice for artists, no doubt hoping that some of it would rub off on this one.
70John5918
Thanks for drawing attention to child trafficking and slavery, which is no secret. Sudan, Ghana and Uganda are three countries where it has been rife and probably still occurs. Many people are working in those countries to prevent it, and to rescue and rehabilitate its victims. In South Africa the Church has been very active on the issue of trafficking. However the picture painted by some foreign NGOs raising funds on the back of child slavery is often simplistic and even misleading. I've seen it personally in Sudan. There is currently controversy in Ghana over a US NGO violently and forcibly "rescuing" but in fact abducting supposedly trafficked children who turn out not to be slaves or trafficking victims at all (BBC News: Ghanaian children wrongly taken in raids backed by US charity IJM). And a US NGO continued campaigning and raising funds for children abducted by the Christian-inspired Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda many years after the LRA ceased to exist in Uganda which, in the eyes of many Ugandans, gave a very distorted view of the actual situation (link). So I would suggest that your ideological rather than content-based criticism of those who raise legitimate concerns about this particular issue is misplaced and unhelpful.
71John5918
Catholic chaplain who sexually abused Louisiana students jailed for five years (Guardian)
Always slower than we might wish, but gradually these cases are making their way through the legal system, a sea change from the days when they were routinely covered up by the Church.
Always slower than we might wish, but gradually these cases are making their way through the legal system, a sea change from the days when they were routinely covered up by the Church.
72John5918
Meanwhile, in the Church of England:
Safeguarding in ‘crisis’ in Church of England, says archbishop of York (Guardian)
Safeguarding in ‘crisis’ in Church of England, says archbishop of York (Guardian)
Stephen Cottrell tells General Synod ‘mistakes have been made’, while sacked safeguarding board member says ‘we did our job too well’...
73John5918
Bulk of French bishops attend Vatican abuse training (Tablet)
Edited to add: Vatican’s Child Protection Commission Invites Public Feedback on Safeguarding Principles (ACI Africa)
Those who feel strongly on this issue can access the online survey here.
Almost three-quarters of France’s active bishops have attended special Vatican sessions on recognising and reporting sexual abuse of minors, prompted by the shocking 2021 report on abuse in the French Church. The bishops travelled to Rome in three groups – in February, May and July — for two days of discussions with the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Dicastery for Bishops on their responsibility when confronted with clerical abuse of minors... The Vatican has strict policies on abuse but has struggled to enforce them, with bishops in many countries unsure what to do when confronted with such cases... “The idea is to help bishops deal with these situations, but also to create a collective spirit of mutual help to get through these difficulties together”... Attendance was voluntary and 70 of the 98 bishops in office in France took part. Some could not for scheduling reasons, the conference said, but “it is likely that other sessions will be organised”... They were told what they had to report, how the dicastery deals with the cases, and studied several concrete cases to see how this works in practice... they reviewed Vos estis lux mundi, Pope Francis’ 2019 motu proprio on bishops’ responsibility for tackling abuse. There were also working sessions organised by the bishops’ conference to discuss problems such as recognising subtle signs of abuse and who to tell what.
Edited to add: Vatican’s Child Protection Commission Invites Public Feedback on Safeguarding Principles (ACI Africa)
The Vatican’s child protection commission is inviting the public to provide feedback on Church safeguarding principles for the creation of updated diocesan guidelines. Anyone can participate in an online survey, which is available in four languages, including English and Spanish. The responses will be used to formulate an updated Universal Guidelines Framework (UFG), the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors said last week. The final version of the UFG will be approved at the end of 2023 and distributed to Catholic dioceses and territories around the world with the request to update their current safeguarding guidelines according to the local culture. “The function of these principles,” the commission said, “is to promote protection from abuse in the Church according to existing good practices in safeguarding, with a focus on assisting people impacted by abuse and the importance of dealing appropriately with instances of abuse”...
Those who feel strongly on this issue can access the online survey here.
74John5918
>69 brone:, >70 John5918:
Here's the BBC's take on the film "Sound of Freedom".
Sound of Freedom: Is the child trafficking drama a watershed moment for 'faith-based' filmmaking?
Here's the BBC's take on the film "Sound of Freedom".
Sound of Freedom: Is the child trafficking drama a watershed moment for 'faith-based' filmmaking?
Depending on whom you ask, the surprise hit US film Sound of Freedom is a "provocative and gripping" film offering "moral clarity" on a harrowing, child-threatening issue - or else it is a "QAnon-tinged thriller… designed to appeal to the conscience of a conspiracy-addled boomer"... It has also received support from prominent US conservatives, many of whom identify with what has been called the "Religious Right". (Although difficult to pin down, the term refers to the allyship of conservative Christianity and Republican politics, which emerged in the US in the second half of the 20th Century)... based on the conversations springing up around Sound of Freedom, it seems like plenty of fans are reading it as a faith-based film... There are two distinct kinds of faith-based films... One is overtly religious (like the recent Jesus Revolution and the God's Not Dead franchise) while the other, though not featuring religious themes front-and-centre, "has the seal and approval of faith-based communities". Sound of Freedom falls into the latter group... Some of the negative coverage of Sound of Freedom has connected the film to QAnon conspiracy theories, specifically noting that Caviezel has at times seemingly embraced some of them... Promoting the film on right-wing media personality Steve Bannon's podcast War Room in May, Caviezel called QAnon "a good thing" and made reference to "adrenochrome", a chemical which according to QAnon followers, is harvested by elites from children's adrenal glands... there have also been critical reports calling into question the achievements of Operation Underground Railroad (OUR), an organisation started by Ballard that works against child trafficking... VICE News wrote an investigative report on Ballard's non-profit, accusing OUR not of "outright falsehoods but a… series of exaggerations that are, in the aggregate, quite misleading"... What's less clear, though, as evidenced by the conversations happening around the film, is what the film's unique selling point, which has made it the summer's surprise hit, really is. Is it a truly Christian/faith-based movie or not? Is it a thriller simply highlighting an all-too-important and harrowing global issue, or one implicitly aligning itself with popular conspiracy theories? Its ambiguity in these respects may have worked in its favour at the box office – though what its impact may be on the film industry longer-term is another matter altogether.
75John5918
Abuse report from global Catholic group Focolare leaves many questions unanswered (NCR)
I've quoted at length as many Christians may not be familiar with the Catholic Focolare lay movement.
The Focolare movement, one of the largest lay organizations in the Catholic Church with members in countries across the world, published its first report on cases of sexual abuse of minors and vulnerable adults within its ranks on March 31. The report, which was done internally and not by an independent firm, focuses on accounts of abuse received by the movement's Commission for the Welfare and Safeguarding of Members from 2014 to 2022. The findings indicate that from 1969-2012, 66 members of the global movement were accused of abusing 42 minors (29 between the ages of 14 and 18, and 13 under the age of 14) and 17 vulnerable adults. Founded in 1943 by the Italian laywoman Chiara Lubich and approved by the Vatican in 1962, the Focolare movement has its headquarters in Rocca di Papa, near Rome, and is present in 182 countries. It was the first of a wave of so-called "new movements" much favored by Pope John Paul II that experienced remarkable growth during his reign. (Other such movements included the Neocatechumenal Way and Communion and Liberation). Focolare members, known as focolarini, live in community, can be married, and take vows of chastity, poverty and obedience. Stefania Tanesini, a Focolare spokesperson, told NCR that vowed members include about 4,300 women and 2,540 men globally. The movement claims online that some 2 million people are more generally involved in its work. This new internal report was released a year after the publication of an independent investigation into a former French consecrated member of the movement, Jean-Michel Merlin, who was responsible for abusing at least 37 boys since at least the 1960s... Just as in the case of the church as a whole, this report makes it clear that it is possible that sexual abuse is systemic in the Focolare movement — as it has already revealed so many cases across the world. And with, at least so far, little research: just one year of work... it provides only the numbers of those said to be abused. It omits the names of abusers, and the places and dates where and when the abuses happened...
I've quoted at length as many Christians may not be familiar with the Catholic Focolare lay movement.
76John5918
Further to our shared concern about human trafficking expressed in some of the last few posts since >69 brone:, this might be of interest:
Human Trafficking by the Numbers: New Reports Estimate Millions of Daily Victims (ACI Africa)
Human Trafficking by the Numbers: New Reports Estimate Millions of Daily Victims (ACI Africa)
On any given day millions of people worldwide are victims of trafficking, forced labor, and sexual exploitation... In 2021, 27.6 million people worldwide were subjected to forced labor. That figure comes from a September 2022 report, “Forced Labor and Forced Marriage,” authored by the International Labor Organization, the U.N. International Organization for Migration, and the Australia-based human rights advocacy group the Walk Free Foundation... 17.3 million people were victims of forced labor exploitation, 6.3 million were victims of forced commercial sexual exploitation, and 3.9 million people were victims of state-imposed forced labor on any given day in the year 2021. These figures include about 3.3 million children subject to forced labor. Half of these children are sexually exploited for commercial gain... The Global Slavery Index estimates that 50 million people — 1 in 150 — were living in modern slavery at some point in 2021, an increase from 40 million people in 2016...
78John5918
>77 brone: These days it is a fact that Catholics can find a priest a bishop or the head of a dicastery who will side with him on whatever view he may have
Given that there are over four hundred thousand priests in the world and over five thousand bishops, it is hardly surprising that a person might find one out of four hundred thousand or one out of five thousand who might side with her on any particular view she may have, and I would suggest to you that this has always been the case throughout history, as there have always been individual clergy with diverse views. What has perhaps changed is that social media now makes fringe views accessible to a wider audience. As for heads of dicasteries, I believe there are around sixteen, and I very much doubt that a person can find a head of a dicastery who will side with her on whatever view she may have. For example, I doubt whether any head of dicastery will side with you on most of your rather extreme anti-Church and anti-pope views.
Given that there are over four hundred thousand priests in the world and over five thousand bishops, it is hardly surprising that a person might find one out of four hundred thousand or one out of five thousand who might side with her on any particular view she may have, and I would suggest to you that this has always been the case throughout history, as there have always been individual clergy with diverse views. What has perhaps changed is that social media now makes fringe views accessible to a wider audience. As for heads of dicasteries, I believe there are around sixteen, and I very much doubt that a person can find a head of a dicastery who will side with her on whatever view she may have. For example, I doubt whether any head of dicastery will side with you on most of your rather extreme anti-Church and anti-pope views.
79John5918
Vatican to investigate Sodalitium Christianae Vitae lay society in Peru (CNA)
The above article goes on to refer to an earlier investigation into abuse in the Sodality. I think it's an example of how Pope Francis has extended Catholic concern about abuse beyond the clergy to also include lay movements within the Church.
Pope Francis Expected to Meet with Abuse Victims at World Youth Day in Portugal (ACI Africa)
The Vatican has commissioned a new investigation of the Sodalitium Christianae Vitae (Sodality of Christian Life), a lay society of apostolic life founded in Peru. The investigation will be led by Archbishop Charles J. Scicluna, assistant secretary of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith and an expert on sexual abuse... Scicluna will be accompanied by Monsignor Jordi Bertomeu, an official of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith... Years ago, both Vatican officials were sent by Pope Francis to deal with the sexual abuse scandal that rocked the Church in Chile. Bertomeu was recently commissioned to study the progress being made in Bolivia in the prevention of clerical sexual abuse...
The above article goes on to refer to an earlier investigation into abuse in the Sodality. I think it's an example of how Pope Francis has extended Catholic concern about abuse beyond the clergy to also include lay movements within the Church.
Pope Francis Expected to Meet with Abuse Victims at World Youth Day in Portugal (ACI Africa)
Pope Francis is set to meet with victims of sexual abuse when he travels to Portugal for World Youth Day next month... The location and date of the meeting would not be publicly announced to protect the privacy of the victims... A commission investigation had announced earlier in the year that nearly 5,000 children had been sexually abused by Church officials in Portugal over the course of about seven decades... Francis, throughout his pontificate, has been outspoken in his condemnation of child sexual abuse among Church leaders. Last month he wrote to the president of Bolivia expressing “sorrow and …shame and dismay” over abuse in that country. In 2019 the pope promulgated the Church legislation Vos Estis Lux Mundi meant to address sexual abuse in the Church; earlier this year he updated those rules and made them permanent... Francis is also planning to visit the Shrine of Our Lady of Fatima, with the pope reportedly intending to pray the rosary with sick young adults at the shrine’s Chapel of Apparitions...
81John5918
>80 brone: and some African bishops
I rather doubt it. Let me repost something I posted in another thread a few days ago:
I rather doubt it. Let me repost something I posted in another thread a few days ago:
I'm currently reading For God and My Country: Catholic Leadership in Modern Uganda*, a 2020 book by US author J J Carney, which examines the lives of seven Catholic leaders in post-colonial Uganda, including laity and clergy, women and men, local and national, well known and little known, and how their Catholicism drives and is integrated into their public leadership. In his introduction he explicitly contrasts their model with that of the current Church in his native USA. As I have said often, in the Church in Africa can be found very traditional Catholic piety (daily mass, Marian devotion, rosary, eucharistic adoration and processions, veneration of saints, etc) and moral theology (including on abortion, homosexuality, etc) side by side with a deep commitment to the tradition of social justice as currently expressed in Catholic Social Teaching. Carney concurs that there is no contradiction, no dichotomy. He also shows how these leaders make the Church present in society without attempting to impose theocracy. Effective Christian witness and proclamation is through action, love and service, not through trying to give Christian doctrine a privileged place in society. The words attributed to Saint Francis of Assisi come to mind, "Preach the gospel constantly; use words {only} when necessary". The at times rather arrogant Church in the Global North could learn a lot from the humble Global South!
* No touchstone.
83John5918
>82 brone:
For the record, I believe there are 70 non-bishops who will be voting at the Synod, not ten. They were selected from a list of 140 names put forward by the seven International Reunions of Bishops' Conferences and the Assembly of Patriarchs of Eastern Catholic Churches, so yes, they have all been "vetted", if you choose to use that word, by their bishops' conferences - I would prefer to say "prayerfully discerned" (link).
The full "List of the Participants to the XVI General Ordinary Assembly of the Synod of the Bishops" can be found here.
And I struggle to see any connection between being an "adventurous theologian" of an "ecumenical seminary" and being a Marxist. Dr Cynthia Bailey Manns, "one of the original members of the Lay Advisory Board that advises Archbishop Bernard Hebda" is described by her archbishop as "someone with years of experience in parish ministry and spiritual direction" (link) . Hmm. Doesn't sound very Marxist to me.
For the record, I believe there are 70 non-bishops who will be voting at the Synod, not ten. They were selected from a list of 140 names put forward by the seven International Reunions of Bishops' Conferences and the Assembly of Patriarchs of Eastern Catholic Churches, so yes, they have all been "vetted", if you choose to use that word, by their bishops' conferences - I would prefer to say "prayerfully discerned" (link).
The full "List of the Participants to the XVI General Ordinary Assembly of the Synod of the Bishops" can be found here.
And I struggle to see any connection between being an "adventurous theologian" of an "ecumenical seminary" and being a Marxist. Dr Cynthia Bailey Manns, "one of the original members of the Lay Advisory Board that advises Archbishop Bernard Hebda" is described by her archbishop as "someone with years of experience in parish ministry and spiritual direction" (link) . Hmm. Doesn't sound very Marxist to me.
84John5918
Jesuits confirm expulsion of a priest artist and lament that Vatican norms block harsher sanctions (AP)
The Jesuits said Monday that a famous artist priest is definitively expelled from the religious order for sexually, spiritually and psychologically abusing women, and lamented they couldn’t prosecute him more vigorously under the Vatican’s internal procedures... They said they had kicked Rupnik out of the order because of his “stubborn refusal to observe the vow of obedience.” The Jesuits had exhorted Rupnik to atone for his misconduct and enter into a process of reparation with his victims, but he refused... the Vatican’s current legislation precluded an investigation that could have led to a harsher penalty — the most stringent church penalty is to defrock a priest, essentially making him a regular layman again. It was a reference to the fact that at the time of Rupnik’s alleged abuse, the Vatican didn’t usually punish sexual or other types of misconduct between priests and adult women, considering any such relations consensual. The Vatican has recently begun to recognize such misconduct as criminal, but new laws can’t be applied retroactively, and the Vatican is generally loathe to make exceptions to punish old misconduct involving adults...
86John5918
>85 brone:
Not sure whether that is a generalised anti-Catholic rant or whether it is directed at the case of Rupnik mentioned in >84 John5918:. If the latter, then I fail to see what it has to do with anything radical, revisionist, progressive, marxist, or globalist. One can agree or disagree on whether newly introduced punishments should be applied retroactively to crimes committed before the punishment was amended, but it has nothing to do with the politically-loaded labels you use. Indeed if anything, the "conservative" view would support the status quo, that new punishments cannot be applied retroactively, while the "radical" view might be the opposite, welcoming a change in this practice.
And if we were to go back to the "rolled up sleeves approach to traditional" ways of dealing with sexual abuse, no action would be taken against abusers (apart from perhaps moving them to another parish where they can continue offending) and there would still be rampant denial and cover ups by the institution. That's how sexual abuse was handled prior to the more open Church heralded by Vatican II.
Not sure whether that is a generalised anti-Catholic rant or whether it is directed at the case of Rupnik mentioned in >84 John5918:. If the latter, then I fail to see what it has to do with anything radical, revisionist, progressive, marxist, or globalist. One can agree or disagree on whether newly introduced punishments should be applied retroactively to crimes committed before the punishment was amended, but it has nothing to do with the politically-loaded labels you use. Indeed if anything, the "conservative" view would support the status quo, that new punishments cannot be applied retroactively, while the "radical" view might be the opposite, welcoming a change in this practice.
And if we were to go back to the "rolled up sleeves approach to traditional" ways of dealing with sexual abuse, no action would be taken against abusers (apart from perhaps moving them to another parish where they can continue offending) and there would still be rampant denial and cover ups by the institution. That's how sexual abuse was handled prior to the more open Church heralded by Vatican II.
87John5918
Pope Meets with Clerical Abuse Survivors, Urges Church to Hear Victims’ "anguished cry" (ACI Africa)
Pope Francis met with 13 survivors of clerical sex abuse on his first day in Portugal and urged the Church to listen to “the anguished cry of the victims.” The emotional private meeting at Lisbon’s apostolic nunciature, or Vatican embassy, on Wednesday night was a moment of “intense listening” by the pope and lasted more than an hour, according to the Vatican. Representatives from Catholic institutions working for the protection of minors in Portugal accompanied the victims. In a speech to Portuguese clergy immediately before the pope’s encounter with the abuse survivors, Francis acknowledged the “anger with which some people view the Church” due to “the scandals that have marred her face.” Pope Francis called for “a humble, ongoing purification, starting with the anguished cry of the victims, who must always be accepted and listened to.” The clerical abuse watchdog BishopAccountability.org issued a statement following the pope’s meeting calling for “true reform” to accompany gestures and apologies, and for the pope to enact a “zero tolerance” policy for abusers. “The thousands of people who were sexually abused as children in the Portuguese Church deserve better. They deserve the ‘concrete actions’ that the pope repeatedly has promised,” it said...
89John5918
>88 brone:
Thanks for noting these half a dozen cases of clergy sexual abuse, although citing some references would have been helpful. While all of these are appalling, thank God that there are over four hundred thousand other priests who are not sexual abusers.
I wouldn't say that it "took 60 years to expose monster priests". I would rather say that it took nearly two thousand years, as it was only with the new openness and transparency that came with Vatican II that abusive priests began to be exposed. That coincided with societal changes in which the press, the law enforcement agencies and indeed the public at large became more willing to challenge "establishment" figures, which included clergy.
Technically there are very few "missionary countries" (or "territories") as most of what we would formerly have called "missionary countries" have now long had their own established local Church - Sudan, for example, is celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the formation of the indigenous local Church next year, while Uganda celebrated their seventieth anniversary this year. There are still many foreign missionaries working in these countries, but by the same token there are huge number of missionaries from these countries working in older Catholic churches in Europe and north America, which are sometimes referred to as the "new" missionary countries in need of re-evangelisation. But whatever one calls these former mission territories, if you have some revelations on "undetected and covered up" clerical sexual abuse in them I'd be interested to hear it. I've had some involvement in detecting and uncovering it in three African countries, and have some knowledge of a fourth, so any further information would be of interest.
Thanks for noting these half a dozen cases of clergy sexual abuse, although citing some references would have been helpful. While all of these are appalling, thank God that there are over four hundred thousand other priests who are not sexual abusers.
I wouldn't say that it "took 60 years to expose monster priests". I would rather say that it took nearly two thousand years, as it was only with the new openness and transparency that came with Vatican II that abusive priests began to be exposed. That coincided with societal changes in which the press, the law enforcement agencies and indeed the public at large became more willing to challenge "establishment" figures, which included clergy.
Technically there are very few "missionary countries" (or "territories") as most of what we would formerly have called "missionary countries" have now long had their own established local Church - Sudan, for example, is celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the formation of the indigenous local Church next year, while Uganda celebrated their seventieth anniversary this year. There are still many foreign missionaries working in these countries, but by the same token there are huge number of missionaries from these countries working in older Catholic churches in Europe and north America, which are sometimes referred to as the "new" missionary countries in need of re-evangelisation. But whatever one calls these former mission territories, if you have some revelations on "undetected and covered up" clerical sexual abuse in them I'd be interested to hear it. I've had some involvement in detecting and uncovering it in three African countries, and have some knowledge of a fourth, so any further information would be of interest.
91John5918
Further to that mention of clergy sexual abuse in Africa, this sad tale by a freelance journalist came to my attention just now. It highlights an aspect which is often overlooked, namely the children born as a result of clergy sexual abuse. I have no personal knowledge of the veracity of this story.
MYKIS’ SACRED SILENCE
MYKIS’ SACRED SILENCE
For 46 years the Catholic Order of the Comboni Missionaries hid the illegitimate child of one of its priests. Mykis, half Italian and half Burundian, was considered a threat to the Church and he’s now forced to live in a refugee camp in Kenya. His father, the late Father Giovanni Capaccioni, managed to silence him thanks to the help of his friends inside the congregation. Some are dead, others are still alive...
92John5918
Another historic case from the USA which has belatedly found its way into the criminal justice system.
New Orleans priest who admitted to sexually abusing minors faces criminal charges (Guardian)
New Orleans priest who admitted to sexually abusing minors faces criminal charges (Guardian)
A retired Catholic priest from New Orleans who years ago secretly admitted to church leaders that he sexually molested or harassed numerous children is now facing criminal charges. State prosecutors in New Orleans obtained an indictment charging Lawrence Hecker, 91, on Thursday with aggravated rape, aggravated kidnapping, aggravated crime against nature and theft. The crimes allegedly occurred at a church attached to a Catholic high school where Hecker worked in 1975, when the accuser was a 15- or 16-year-old child, according to the alleged victim’s civil attorney, Richard Trahant. The accuser recalls that Hecker approached him under the guise of showing him a wrestling move, choked him unconscious, and “sodomized” him, Trahant said. Trahant said his client and the victim’s mother reported it to the school at the time, but nothing was done... The charge against Hecker comes a little more than two months after the Guardian reported on a statement that he gave in 1999 to church leaders in which he acknowledged committing “overtly sexual acts” with multiple boys in the late 1960s and 1970s. Hecker also acknowledged having unusually close relationships with other boys stretching into the 1980s, but had not faced any substantial consequences until prosecutors in Williams’s office obtained Thursday’s indictment. Just last month, the Guardian and Louisiana television news station WWL published an interview during which reporters for the outlets confronted Hecker about his 1999 statement. Hecker – while a video camera recorded him – twice said, “Yes”, when asked if he committed the specific sexual acts laid out in the statement...
93John5918
Not sexual but a different form of abuse in the Americas, which also reminds us how the Church has often colluded with authoritarian regimes.
Quest to bring priest charged with torture in Argentina to justice (BBC)
Quest to bring priest charged with torture in Argentina to justice (BBC)
Survivors of crimes committed by the 1970s military junta in Argentina are fighting to see a priest stand trial for his alleged role in kidnappings and torture against opponents of the regime... Father Franco Reverberi, an Italian national by birth, had been a regular at the clandestine detention centre. They said that rather than helping the prisoners, he would watch them being tortured, sometimes holding a Bible while he was telling them that it was God's will that they provide their torturers with the information they were after... He was not the first member of the Catholic clergy to be accused of actively collaborating with Argentina's military junta. In 2007, Christian von Wernich, a Catholic priest who worked as a chaplain for the police in Buenos Aires province, was found guilty of complicity in seven murders and dozens of kidnappings and instances of torture. He was sentenced to life imprisonment...
94John5918
Pope accepts resignation of Polish bishop after gay orgy scandal in diocese (Guardian)
The pope has accepted the resignation of a Polish bishop whose diocese has been rocked by reports of a gay orgy involving a male sex worker in a priest’s apartment, as well as previous violent incidents involving his clergy... his diocese has been in the spotlight after one of his priests was placed under criminal investigation for having allegedly organised an orgy at his apartment in Dąbrowa Górnicza involving a male sex worker. Polish media reported that one of the participants of the sex party collapsed after overdosing on erectile dysfunction pills... A prosecutor said the priest was suspected of “failing to provide assistance to a person whose life is at risk” for having allegedly tried to bar paramedics from entering the apartment. It was not the first incident involving clergy from the diocese to make headlines. In 2010, the then acting rector of the Sosnowiec seminary allegedly got into a scuffle at a gay club, but was allowed to remain in his job for more than a year even after the case was publicised by Polish media. The Holy See finally intervened and dissolved the seminary altogether... In March 2023, the corpse of a 26-year-old deacon was found with injuries suggesting homicide. Local prosecutors said he had been killed by a 40-year-old priest who then killed himself... Kaszak was appointed bishop in 2009 by then pope, Benedict XVI...
98John5918
>97 brone:
Your comments on the homosexual culture in the Church are interesting. In fact there has been a closeted homosexual culture in the priesthood for a very long time, and I know "good and chaste" heterosexual priests who have left the priesthood because they were not able to fit in to what one described to me as a "homosocial" culture. But of course many of the homosexual priests and bishops are also "good and chaste". All priests, of whatever sexual orientation have taken a promise of celibacy, and many of them live up to it. Some, again of any sexual orientation, do not live celibate lives, which may be a sin, but is not a crime as long as they confine themselves to consenting adults. Sadly a few, again of whatever sexual orientation, are sexual abusers, and that's where your "hundreds of millions of dollars for lawyers" goes.
Today he is homeless
I somehow doubt it. He is no longer head of a diocese, but I suspect he will still have a roof over his head.
Your comments on the homosexual culture in the Church are interesting. In fact there has been a closeted homosexual culture in the priesthood for a very long time, and I know "good and chaste" heterosexual priests who have left the priesthood because they were not able to fit in to what one described to me as a "homosocial" culture. But of course many of the homosexual priests and bishops are also "good and chaste". All priests, of whatever sexual orientation have taken a promise of celibacy, and many of them live up to it. Some, again of any sexual orientation, do not live celibate lives, which may be a sin, but is not a crime as long as they confine themselves to consenting adults. Sadly a few, again of whatever sexual orientation, are sexual abusers, and that's where your "hundreds of millions of dollars for lawyers" goes.
Today he is homeless
I somehow doubt it. He is no longer head of a diocese, but I suspect he will still have a roof over his head.
100John5918
>99 brone:
I don't think there is any doubt that his voice will still be heard. There is any amount of so-called Catholic media (both traditional and social media) which amplifies the voices of those who attack the pope and seek to undermine the Catholic Church.
I don't think there is any doubt that his voice will still be heard. There is any amount of so-called Catholic media (both traditional and social media) which amplifies the voices of those who attack the pope and seek to undermine the Catholic Church.
101John5918
Ohio priest who sex-trafficked boys he met in preschool given life sentence (Guardian)
Michael Zacharias’s victims said the priest waited until they began abusing drugs before he sexually trafficked them...
102John5918
One in 10 Australian men report having sexual contact with under-18s, study finds (Guardian)
As the world and the Church struggle to better understand sexual abuse of minors, studies such as this are very useful, if alarming.
Described by its authors as the largest study of its kind ever undertaken globally, the study, titled Identifying and understanding child sexual offending behaviour and attitudes among Australian men, surveyed a nationally representative sample of 1,945 Australian men and found 9.4% said they had sexual contact with someone under the age of 18. That would equate to about one million Australian men... the rate of contact was consistent with other studies worldwide... The findings add to groundbreaking research into victims of child abuse published in April. The landmark Australian child maltreatment study found that about 23.7% of Australians had experienced child sexual abuse; about 8.7% had been forced into sex. More than one in three Australian girls experience child sexual abuse, it found... The UNSW research found two distinct cohorts of child sex offenders: “One which is motivated by sexual interest in children, and a second group who may be offending for situational or opportunistic reasons.” It also revealed the existence of a large group of undetected men who Salter called “specialist” offenders: otherwise pro-social, well-liked, high status men who repeatedly groom and then abuse children without detection. The study showed they tend to have higher incomes, are more likely to be married and are more likely to work in a field giving them access to kids... The study also found that perpetrators were also more likely to have been themselves the victim of sexual abuse or had adverse experiences as a child, to have anxiety, depression and binge drinking...
As the world and the Church struggle to better understand sexual abuse of minors, studies such as this are very useful, if alarming.
104John5918
>103 brone:
Yes, one occasionally sees reports of a handful of cardinals disagreeing with the Holy Father. He has tried hard to prise cardinals and bishops away from their "well-funded thrones" by modelling a simpler and more open lifestyle, but many are still resisting. He has also been creating cardinals from places which don't have "well-funded thrones" to increase diversity in the College of Cardinals.
I would question your characterisation of the early Church. Paul did disagree with the Holy Father of the time, Peter, but following an early example of the synodal process, the issue of "clinging to Hebrew traditions" was resolved amicably and the Church opened up to a more inclusive dispensation. It was a case of reading the signs of the times and recognising that the old ways were no longer fit for purpose and had to change. As for Paul's missionary endeavours, which were very much tied in with the letters he wrote to churches he had founded, Pope Francis constantly emphasises the importance of evangelisation so I suspect he would have had no problem with Paul.
Edited to add: The ‘synthesis report’ from the October 2023 Synod states, "Rather than saying that the Church has a mission, we affirm that the Church 'is' mission. 'As the Father has sent me, so I send you' (John 20:21)". The pontifical mission society, Missio, writes that this text states that the mission of proclaiming the Gospel is the sole reason for the Church’s existence. And because, going forward, this will be a guiding principle for any reforms and changes in the Church’s institutions and dynamics, it seems clear that mission is set to be the central foundation and the purpose of the entire Catholic family (link).
Yes, one occasionally sees reports of a handful of cardinals disagreeing with the Holy Father. He has tried hard to prise cardinals and bishops away from their "well-funded thrones" by modelling a simpler and more open lifestyle, but many are still resisting. He has also been creating cardinals from places which don't have "well-funded thrones" to increase diversity in the College of Cardinals.
I would question your characterisation of the early Church. Paul did disagree with the Holy Father of the time, Peter, but following an early example of the synodal process, the issue of "clinging to Hebrew traditions" was resolved amicably and the Church opened up to a more inclusive dispensation. It was a case of reading the signs of the times and recognising that the old ways were no longer fit for purpose and had to change. As for Paul's missionary endeavours, which were very much tied in with the letters he wrote to churches he had founded, Pope Francis constantly emphasises the importance of evangelisation so I suspect he would have had no problem with Paul.
Edited to add: The ‘synthesis report’ from the October 2023 Synod states, "Rather than saying that the Church has a mission, we affirm that the Church 'is' mission. 'As the Father has sent me, so I send you' (John 20:21)". The pontifical mission society, Missio, writes that this text states that the mission of proclaiming the Gospel is the sole reason for the Church’s existence. And because, going forward, this will be a guiding principle for any reforms and changes in the Church’s institutions and dynamics, it seems clear that mission is set to be the central foundation and the purpose of the entire Catholic family (link).
105John5918
Church in Africa to Benefit from Caritas Internationalis Strategies to Foster Safeguarding (ACI Africa)
Members of Caritas Internationalis (CI) in Africa are set to benefit from a wide range of educational and funding strategies unveiled by the international humanitarian agency to enhance the protection of minors and vulnerable adults on the continent... the humanitarian agency is developing educational materials to create more awareness about safeguarding...
107John5918
>106 brone:
It would be a lot easier to separate the facts from the innuendo and disparaging labels if you would cite sources for your information. I find it interesting that you are so down on Cardinal Dolan, as he is generally thought to be very "conservative". I think the homosexual culture of the clergy is nothing new, as remarked upon in previous posts in this thread, but is a longstanding culture; what has changed is that since the Second Vatican Council there is more openness in both the Church and society so we are more aware of it. Likewise sexual abuse by clergy (which is of course a different issue from homosexuality). Prior to the Council it was routinely covered up and thousands of cases went unrecorded. Nowadays there are fewer cases of abuse due to the introduction of robust safeguarding measures, and even fewer cases of covering up abuse, so that the small number of cases which are not handled correctly quite rightly make headline news, as you have apparently picked up on. Homophobic and racist attacks against Cardinal Wilton surfaced in 2020 as "unsubstantiated claims" in a conservative Catholic publication called Church Militant, a Catholic website known for its "incendiary editorial style", using slurs such as “accused homosexual,” “Marxist” and “African Queen” (link). Cardinals living in expensive palaces has also been mentioned earlier in this thread, and one of Pope Francis' initiatives is appointing new cardinals who do not live in such palaces, while encouraging existing bishops and cardinals to live more simply. Two of the latest batch of new cardinals whom I know personally both live in small bungalows, one of which is an old prefab. As for "hippie priests", I wish we could find some amongst the current crop of younger clergy in the Global North, many of whom do not impress with their ultra-conservative stance, their narrow theology and their penchant for the trappings of the institutional power structure rather than a pastoral, spiritual and merciful approach.
It would be a lot easier to separate the facts from the innuendo and disparaging labels if you would cite sources for your information. I find it interesting that you are so down on Cardinal Dolan, as he is generally thought to be very "conservative". I think the homosexual culture of the clergy is nothing new, as remarked upon in previous posts in this thread, but is a longstanding culture; what has changed is that since the Second Vatican Council there is more openness in both the Church and society so we are more aware of it. Likewise sexual abuse by clergy (which is of course a different issue from homosexuality). Prior to the Council it was routinely covered up and thousands of cases went unrecorded. Nowadays there are fewer cases of abuse due to the introduction of robust safeguarding measures, and even fewer cases of covering up abuse, so that the small number of cases which are not handled correctly quite rightly make headline news, as you have apparently picked up on. Homophobic and racist attacks against Cardinal Wilton surfaced in 2020 as "unsubstantiated claims" in a conservative Catholic publication called Church Militant, a Catholic website known for its "incendiary editorial style", using slurs such as “accused homosexual,” “Marxist” and “African Queen” (link). Cardinals living in expensive palaces has also been mentioned earlier in this thread, and one of Pope Francis' initiatives is appointing new cardinals who do not live in such palaces, while encouraging existing bishops and cardinals to live more simply. Two of the latest batch of new cardinals whom I know personally both live in small bungalows, one of which is an old prefab. As for "hippie priests", I wish we could find some amongst the current crop of younger clergy in the Global North, many of whom do not impress with their ultra-conservative stance, their narrow theology and their penchant for the trappings of the institutional power structure rather than a pastoral, spiritual and merciful approach.
109John5918
>108 brone:
As far as I can see, the Holy Father did not use the word "sodomy", but actually "criticized laws that criminalize homosexuality as 'unjust', saying God loves all his children just as they are and called on Catholic bishops who support the laws to welcome LGBTQ people into the church. 'Being homosexual isn’t a crime'... Francis acknowledged that Catholic bishops in some parts of the world support laws that criminalize homosexuality or discriminate against LGBTQ people, and he himself referred to the issue in terms of 'sin'. But he attributed such attitudes to cultural backgrounds, and said bishops in particular need to undergo a process of change to recognize the dignity of everyone. 'These bishops have to have a process of conversion,' he said, adding that they should apply 'tenderness, please, as God has for each one of us'” (link). The word "sodomy", which you have inserted into his speech, is not the same as homosexuality. Plenty of heterosexual people apparently practice anal sex, for example.
The difference in treatment between African bishops who disagree with the pope on homosexuality and US bishops such as Cardinal Burke and Bishop Strickland is perhaps that the former simply disagree with the pope on a particular aspect of Church teaching, while the latter tell Catholics to disobey the pope and even call Francis’ legitimacy into question. There's also a perception that some US bishops are promoting a secular political ideology rather than remaining faithful to the Church (link).
Just wondering why (a) you've today brought up something that the pope said nearly a year ago, and (b) why you've chosen the thread on sexual abuse to post about the issue of homosexuality and bishops?
As far as I can see, the Holy Father did not use the word "sodomy", but actually "criticized laws that criminalize homosexuality as 'unjust', saying God loves all his children just as they are and called on Catholic bishops who support the laws to welcome LGBTQ people into the church. 'Being homosexual isn’t a crime'... Francis acknowledged that Catholic bishops in some parts of the world support laws that criminalize homosexuality or discriminate against LGBTQ people, and he himself referred to the issue in terms of 'sin'. But he attributed such attitudes to cultural backgrounds, and said bishops in particular need to undergo a process of change to recognize the dignity of everyone. 'These bishops have to have a process of conversion,' he said, adding that they should apply 'tenderness, please, as God has for each one of us'” (link). The word "sodomy", which you have inserted into his speech, is not the same as homosexuality. Plenty of heterosexual people apparently practice anal sex, for example.
The difference in treatment between African bishops who disagree with the pope on homosexuality and US bishops such as Cardinal Burke and Bishop Strickland is perhaps that the former simply disagree with the pope on a particular aspect of Church teaching, while the latter tell Catholics to disobey the pope and even call Francis’ legitimacy into question. There's also a perception that some US bishops are promoting a secular political ideology rather than remaining faithful to the Church (link).
Just wondering why (a) you've today brought up something that the pope said nearly a year ago, and (b) why you've chosen the thread on sexual abuse to post about the issue of homosexuality and bishops?
111John5918
>110 brone:
Is it really necessary to post this sort of gossip and innuendo, which appears to be devoid of any new information about this sad case and is full of dark hints without citing any sources for us to check up? As far as I know Rupnik is under investigation and both he and his alleged victims are entitled to a fair hearing and due process, not a trial by social media.
Is it really necessary to post this sort of gossip and innuendo, which appears to be devoid of any new information about this sad case and is full of dark hints without citing any sources for us to check up? As far as I know Rupnik is under investigation and both he and his alleged victims are entitled to a fair hearing and due process, not a trial by social media.
114John5918
TB Joshua: Megachurch leader raped and tortured worshippers (BBC)
Evidence of widespread abuse and torture by the founder of one of the world's biggest Christian evangelical churches has been uncovered by the BBC. Dozens of ex-Synagogue Church of all Nations members - five British - allege atrocities, including rape and forced abortions, by Nigeria's late TB Joshua. The allegations of abuse in a secretive Lagos compound span almost 20 years... Dozens of eyewitness accounts of physical violence or torture carried out by Joshua, including instances of child abuse and people being whipped and chained... Numerous women who say they were sexually assaulted by Joshua, with a number claiming they were repeatedly raped for years inside the compound... Multiple allegations of forced abortions inside the church following the alleged rapes by Joshua, including one woman who says she had five terminations... Multiple first-hand accounts detailing how Joshua faked his "miracle healings", which were broadcast to millions of people around the world...
116John5918
>115 brone:
This book which Cardinal Fernandez wrote many years ago has apparently caught the attention of right wing "conservative" Catholic websites. Nobody else had ever heard of it, and it would have remained buried if it didn't suit the ideology of these groups to resurrect it, as usual without giving any context. Fernandez himself says it "is a book he wrote while still young and is one 'that I certainly would not write now'.” It's a book he "cancelled" not long after it was published, and “never allowed it to be reprinted.” He said the book made sense at the time after having a conversation with young couples “who wanted to better understand the spiritual meaning of their relationships,” but that soon after it came out he feared the book “could be misinterpreted.” “That’s why I don’t think it’s a good thing to spread it now. In fact, I have not authorized it and it is contrary to my will,” he said (Crux).
As the Catholic News Agency writes, much of the book "focuses on the Church’s tradition of divine love, with a particular focus on how divine ecstasy can be experienced not only spiritually but also bodily. Fernández cites heavily from saints and mystics such as Augustine, John of the Cross, Teresa of Ávila, and Blessed Angela of Foligno. 'The testimonies of the mystics show us that the relationship with God can also beneficially affect the erotic level of man {sic}, up to his {sic} sexuality,' Fernández writes. The relationship between human sexual relations and intimacy with God has long been explored in the Catholic Church, including in works such as St John Paul II’s theology of the body catechesis". Crux explains that Fernández explored the question of whether faithful are called to a “passionate experience” of God similar to those had by mystic saints such as Teresa of Ávila and Therese of Lisieux, who had “inebriating experiences” of God after their conversions. The language of Christian mysticism is often passionate, and open to misinterpretation if read out of context.
Talking of erotic religious writing, have you ever read the Song of Songs in the Old Testament?
This book which Cardinal Fernandez wrote many years ago has apparently caught the attention of right wing "conservative" Catholic websites. Nobody else had ever heard of it, and it would have remained buried if it didn't suit the ideology of these groups to resurrect it, as usual without giving any context. Fernandez himself says it "is a book he wrote while still young and is one 'that I certainly would not write now'.” It's a book he "cancelled" not long after it was published, and “never allowed it to be reprinted.” He said the book made sense at the time after having a conversation with young couples “who wanted to better understand the spiritual meaning of their relationships,” but that soon after it came out he feared the book “could be misinterpreted.” “That’s why I don’t think it’s a good thing to spread it now. In fact, I have not authorized it and it is contrary to my will,” he said (Crux).
As the Catholic News Agency writes, much of the book "focuses on the Church’s tradition of divine love, with a particular focus on how divine ecstasy can be experienced not only spiritually but also bodily. Fernández cites heavily from saints and mystics such as Augustine, John of the Cross, Teresa of Ávila, and Blessed Angela of Foligno. 'The testimonies of the mystics show us that the relationship with God can also beneficially affect the erotic level of man {sic}, up to his {sic} sexuality,' Fernández writes. The relationship between human sexual relations and intimacy with God has long been explored in the Catholic Church, including in works such as St John Paul II’s theology of the body catechesis". Crux explains that Fernández explored the question of whether faithful are called to a “passionate experience” of God similar to those had by mystic saints such as Teresa of Ávila and Therese of Lisieux, who had “inebriating experiences” of God after their conversions. The language of Christian mysticism is often passionate, and open to misinterpretation if read out of context.
Talking of erotic religious writing, have you ever read the Song of Songs in the Old Testament?
118John5918
>117 brone:
Again, I think you misunderstand what the declaration actually says. In response to a number of bishops, particularly in Germany, the declaration clearly teaches that you can't recognise nor formally bless irregular unions, and firmly restates traditional Church teaching on irregular unions of all sorts, not only same-sex but the also the various other common types of irregular union (eg polygamy, cohabitation, etc). It clearly reaffirms traditional Church teaching on marriage being between one woman and one man. It also reaffirms traditional Church practice that a priest can informally bless any individual who comes seeking God's grace without having to enquire into their moral status.
Again, I think you misunderstand what the declaration actually says. In response to a number of bishops, particularly in Germany, the declaration clearly teaches that you can't recognise nor formally bless irregular unions, and firmly restates traditional Church teaching on irregular unions of all sorts, not only same-sex but the also the various other common types of irregular union (eg polygamy, cohabitation, etc). It clearly reaffirms traditional Church teaching on marriage being between one woman and one man. It also reaffirms traditional Church practice that a priest can informally bless any individual who comes seeking God's grace without having to enquire into their moral status.
119John5918
Not directly on topic, but I think the following article is relevant to the wider conversation on child sexual abuse.
Children now ‘biggest perpetrators of sexual abuse against children’ (Guardian)
Children now ‘biggest perpetrators of sexual abuse against children’ (Guardian)
Police data shows 52% of alleged offenders in England and Wales are minors – a situation exacerbated by ‘accessibility of violent porn’...
121John5918
>120 MarthaJeanne:
Thanks. Also worth noting the statistic quoted in that BBC report: "The greatest risk to children remains abuse within the family. Police say this now accounts for around a third of child sexual abuse and exploitation, but can often be more severe."
While on the subject of family as well as church abuse, a further BBC article relating to >114 John5918: TB Joshua’s daughter: Tortured after standing up to ‘Daddy’: "the late megachurch leader TB Joshua, who is accused of committing sexual crimes on a mass scale, locked up his own daughter and tortured her for years before leaving her homeless on the streets of Lagos, Nigeria."
Thanks. Also worth noting the statistic quoted in that BBC report: "The greatest risk to children remains abuse within the family. Police say this now accounts for around a third of child sexual abuse and exploitation, but can often be more severe."
While on the subject of family as well as church abuse, a further BBC article relating to >114 John5918: TB Joshua’s daughter: Tortured after standing up to ‘Daddy’: "the late megachurch leader TB Joshua, who is accused of committing sexual crimes on a mass scale, locked up his own daughter and tortured her for years before leaving her homeless on the streets of Lagos, Nigeria."
123John5918
>122 brone:
You're probably referring to Cardinal Sarah, who is well known for disagreeing with Pope Francis. That's his right. There is room for diversity in the Church. Another prominent African Cardinal, Peter Turkson, has spoken of the Vatican instruction in a far more nuanced fashion. Touché. But one has to understand the current cultural opposition to what is perceived by some Africans as a western attempt to promote homosexuality in Africa, and it is that potential for misunderstanding which is driving many African bishops' concerns. The Vatican has clarified the universal teaching on both marriage as a union between one woman and one man, and on blessings. Individual bishops and bishops' conferences have then issued guidelines for their own jurisdictions. No stunning news there.
Might I add that there is a thread on same sex blessings, which has nothing to do with sexual abuse, the topic of this thread.
You're probably referring to Cardinal Sarah, who is well known for disagreeing with Pope Francis. That's his right. There is room for diversity in the Church. Another prominent African Cardinal, Peter Turkson, has spoken of the Vatican instruction in a far more nuanced fashion. Touché. But one has to understand the current cultural opposition to what is perceived by some Africans as a western attempt to promote homosexuality in Africa, and it is that potential for misunderstanding which is driving many African bishops' concerns. The Vatican has clarified the universal teaching on both marriage as a union between one woman and one man, and on blessings. Individual bishops and bishops' conferences have then issued guidelines for their own jurisdictions. No stunning news there.
Might I add that there is a thread on same sex blessings, which has nothing to do with sexual abuse, the topic of this thread.
124John5918
>115 brone:, >116 John5918:
Not strictly on topic, but Howard Thurman has recently been drawn to my attention again, and given that these two posts reference Christian mysticism, I think he is worth noting in this Christianity group. He was a prominent US protestant leader, described by Wikipedia as "an American author, philosopher, theologian, mystic, educator, and civil rights leader" whose "theology of radical nonviolence influenced and shaped a generation of civil rights activists... including Martin Luther King Jr." Contemporary mysticism is often associated with the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, but there are some important western protestant figures, of whom Thurman was one. Mysticism is also often wrongly thought of as being unworldly and passive, but Thurman is an excellent example of "an activist mystic", or "Mysticism And Social Action" (link).
Not strictly on topic, but Howard Thurman has recently been drawn to my attention again, and given that these two posts reference Christian mysticism, I think he is worth noting in this Christianity group. He was a prominent US protestant leader, described by Wikipedia as "an American author, philosopher, theologian, mystic, educator, and civil rights leader" whose "theology of radical nonviolence influenced and shaped a generation of civil rights activists... including Martin Luther King Jr." Contemporary mysticism is often associated with the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, but there are some important western protestant figures, of whom Thurman was one. Mysticism is also often wrongly thought of as being unworldly and passive, but Thurman is an excellent example of "an activist mystic", or "Mysticism And Social Action" (link).
125John5918
>124 John5918:
A further reflection on mysticism and social action, this one from Catholic Franciscan priest Fr Richard Rohr:
A further reflection on mysticism and social action, this one from Catholic Franciscan priest Fr Richard Rohr:
Give me a place to stand, and I will move the whole earth with a lever—Archimedes
The fixed point is our place to stand. It is a contemplative stance: steady, centered, poised, and rooted. To be contemplative, we have to have a slight distance from the world to allow time for withdrawal from business as usual, for contemplation, for going into what Jesus calls our “private room” (Matthew 6:6). However, we have to remain quite close to the world at the same time, loving it, feeling its pain and its joy as our pain and our joy. Otherwise, our distance can become a form of escapism.
True contemplation, the great teachers say, is really quite down to earth and practical, and doesn’t require life in a monastery. It is, however, an utterly different way of receiving the moment, and therefore all of life. In order to have the capacity to “move the world,” we need some distancing and detachment from the diversionary nature and delusions of mass culture and the false self. Contemplation builds on the hard bottom of reality—as it is—without ideology, denial, or fantasy.
Unfortunately, many of us don’t have a fixed place to stand, a fulcrum of critical distance, and thus we cannot find our levers... by which to move our world. We do not have the steadiness of spiritual practice to keep our sight keen and alive. Those who have plenty of opportunities for spiritual practice—for example, those in monasteries—often don’t have an access point beyond religion itself from which to speak or to serve much of our world. We need a delivery system in the world to provide the capacity for building bridges and connecting the dots of life.
Some degree of inner experience is necessary for true spiritual authority, but we need some form of outer validation, too. We need to be taken seriously as competent and committed individuals and not just “inner” people. Could this perhaps be what Jesus means by being both “wise as serpents and innocent as doves” (Matthew 10:16)? God offers us quiet, contemplative eyes; God also calls us to prophetic and critical involvement in the pain and sufferings of our world—both at the same time. This is so obvious in the life and ministry of Jesus that I wonder why it has not been taught as an essential part of Christianity. (link)
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Italy refuses to extradite priest accused of murder and torture to Argentina (Guardian)
Another example of clergy abuse in the Americas, this one an abuse of human rights rather than sexual abuse. It was very common during that era for some clergy to support right wing dictatorships and to collude in their abuses.
Italy’s justice minister has refused Argentina’s request to extradite a priest accused of crimes against humanity during the country’s military dictatorship in the 1970s and 1980s. The Rev Franco Reverberi, 86, who served as military chaplain during Argentina’s 1976-1983 military regime, faces charges related to the alleged murder in 1976 of the 20-year-old political activist José Guillermo Berón, and his alleged participation in torture. Reverberi, who has joint Argentinian and Italian nationality, left Argentina in 2011 after trials against pro-junta figures had begun in Argentina, returning to his home town near Parma. Since then, he has lived undisturbed in Italy, where he continued to celebrate mass until recently. He has consistently denied any wrongdoing and has not been convicted by the courts or excommunicated by the Vatican...
Another example of clergy abuse in the Americas, this one an abuse of human rights rather than sexual abuse. It was very common during that era for some clergy to support right wing dictatorships and to collude in their abuses.
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>127 brone:
Might be helpful to us all if you would cite a source for this post. I've found a number of "conservative" Catholic websites which would fit the bill. As far as I am aware, none of Fr Rohr's books have ever been declared heretical, and he is a priest in good standing with the Franciscan order and the Church.
Might be helpful to us all if you would cite a source for this post. I've found a number of "conservative" Catholic websites which would fit the bill. As far as I am aware, none of Fr Rohr's books have ever been declared heretical, and he is a priest in good standing with the Franciscan order and the Church.
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Another report which is not directly related to clergy sexual abuse, but which gives a taste of the current scale of online grooming.
Meta documents show 100,000 children sexually harassed daily on its platforms (Guardian)
Meta documents show 100,000 children sexually harassed daily on its platforms (Guardian)
Meta estimates about 100,000 children using Facebook and Instagram receive online sexual harassment each day, including “pictures of adult genitalia”, according to internal company documents made public late Wednesday... The filing is the latest in a lawsuit initiated by the New Mexico attorney general’s office on 5 December, which alleges Meta’s social networks have become marketplaces for child predators. Raúl Torrez, the state’s attorney general, has accused Meta of enabling adults to find, message and groom children...
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>129 brone:
I think it might be a mistake to read Richard Rohr through an exclusivist lens, given that inclusivity is a key theme throughout his work. Should "the word became flesh Jn 1:14 is not referring to a single human body" be interpreted exclusively, that it cannot be a human body at all, or inclusively, that it includes but also goes beyond a single human body?
I think it might be a mistake to read Richard Rohr through an exclusivist lens, given that inclusivity is a key theme throughout his work. Should "the word became flesh Jn 1:14 is not referring to a single human body" be interpreted exclusively, that it cannot be a human body at all, or inclusively, that it includes but also goes beyond a single human body?
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>132 brone: the simple verse of Jn:1-14
Do you really think that it is a "simple verse"? I beg to differ. I think the implications of this profound and indeed shocking verse are immense and complex. The Church has spent two millennia unpacking it, and I hardly think it can be considered done and dusted. I've just looked it up in the Jerome biblical commentary, which has been a mainstay of Catholic biblical scholarship since the 1960s, and for that verse it has a paragraph full of Greek words, much of which I don't pretend to understand. The mystery of our faith and the riches of scripture are open ended and we constantly discover new depths. This does not imply ditching the older understandings, but rather building on, expanding and deepening them.
Interestingly some bible scholars argue that "he pitched his tent among us" is a more accurate translation of "he dwelt amongst us", and I find that a fascinating concept, bearing in mind the culture of the semi-nomadic Jewish livestock herders of Jesus' time. Arguably today's pastoralists of Africa and the Middle East would have a far better understanding of the powerful implications of that statement than any of us in the modern industrialised west.
Do you really think that it is a "simple verse"? I beg to differ. I think the implications of this profound and indeed shocking verse are immense and complex. The Church has spent two millennia unpacking it, and I hardly think it can be considered done and dusted. I've just looked it up in the Jerome biblical commentary, which has been a mainstay of Catholic biblical scholarship since the 1960s, and for that verse it has a paragraph full of Greek words, much of which I don't pretend to understand. The mystery of our faith and the riches of scripture are open ended and we constantly discover new depths. This does not imply ditching the older understandings, but rather building on, expanding and deepening them.
Interestingly some bible scholars argue that "he pitched his tent among us" is a more accurate translation of "he dwelt amongst us", and I find that a fascinating concept, bearing in mind the culture of the semi-nomadic Jewish livestock herders of Jesus' time. Arguably today's pastoralists of Africa and the Middle East would have a far better understanding of the powerful implications of that statement than any of us in the modern industrialised west.
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>134 brone: It is essential for priests and the faithful at large to admit we are dealing with a gay problem not a pedophilia problem
I think you'll find that many who have studied the problem would disagree with you there. The vast majority of homosexual clergy, like the vast majority of heterosexual clergy, are not paedophiles.
may not be promoted to pastor or some big shot job at the chancery
That's one of the reasons why missionaries and religious orders are often at the forefront of outspoken reform, as they are usually not part of the institutional power structure. They move from role to role, job to job, position to position as needed, and their superiors (usually now referred to as coordinators or similar) are elected by the ordinary members of the order, so none of it is conditional upon seniority on a career ladder as often happens within the diocesan clergy. I remember once asking a diocesan priest friend in UK who at that time was well into middle-age when he expected to be made a parish priest, and his reply was, "One more cold winter and I'll be a parish priest!" - in other words, when a couple more priests who were senior to him died or retired due to ill health or old age, a vacancy would open for him. Not so for missionaries and religious orders.
I think you'll find that many who have studied the problem would disagree with you there. The vast majority of homosexual clergy, like the vast majority of heterosexual clergy, are not paedophiles.
may not be promoted to pastor or some big shot job at the chancery
That's one of the reasons why missionaries and religious orders are often at the forefront of outspoken reform, as they are usually not part of the institutional power structure. They move from role to role, job to job, position to position as needed, and their superiors (usually now referred to as coordinators or similar) are elected by the ordinary members of the order, so none of it is conditional upon seniority on a career ladder as often happens within the diocesan clergy. I remember once asking a diocesan priest friend in UK who at that time was well into middle-age when he expected to be made a parish priest, and his reply was, "One more cold winter and I'll be a parish priest!" - in other words, when a couple more priests who were senior to him died or retired due to ill health or old age, a vacancy would open for him. Not so for missionaries and religious orders.
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>135 John5918: Not to mention that a lot of girls and women have been sexually abused by clergy. Gays are hardly likely to be at fault there.
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Ex-minister of secretive sect admits to child sex abuse (BBC)
Another tragic tale of long term sexual abuse of both males and females in a protestant church "which has no official name but is often referred to as The Truth or The Way... believed to have up to 100,000 members worldwide, with the majority in North America".
Another tragic tale of long term sexual abuse of both males and females in a protestant church "which has no official name but is often referred to as The Truth or The Way... believed to have up to 100,000 members worldwide, with the majority in North America".
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Christopher Saunders: Former Bishop of Broome charged with rape in Australia (BBC)
Australian bishop Christopher Saunders has been charged with rape and a string of historical sex offences - some against children. The 74-year-old was arrested in Broome on Wednesday, after parallel investigations ordered by Western Australian police and the Pope. Mr Saunders, who has denied allegations in the past, was refused bail and will appear in court on Thursday. He is one of the most senior Catholic clerics to face charges of this nature. Mr Saunders is accused of two counts of rape, 14 counts of unlawful and indecent assault, and three counts of indecently dealing with a child as a person in authority. The alleged offending occurred in the remote Western Australian towns of Broome, Kununurra and the Aboriginal community of Kalumburu between 2008 and 2014. Aside from the late Cardinal George Pell, who was jailed and then acquitted, Mr Saunders is the most senior Catholic official in the country to be charged with child sex offences... For years, he has faced dual investigations over allegations of sexual abuse made by several Aboriginal men from communities in his area...
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>141 brone:
Worth remembering I think that many people (including, I believe your good self and my good self) even if not quite crying "calumny" over accusations against Cardinal Pell at least doubted them, and these doubts eventually proved justified when he was acquitted. Everybody is entitled to due process, both victims and perpetrators. The normal process is to suspend the accused cleric and ensure he is not allowed access to minors and the vulnerable while the case is investigated, both by Church and secular authorities.
I'n not up to date with the case of Rupnik. He was expelled from the Jesuits, largely because he refused to accept the conditions which are normally imposed on someone accused of abuse, and as far as I know he has not been reinstated. There have been reports that he was also excommunicated. The fact that he has now apparently been incardinated into a Slovenian diocese despite the Jesuits stating that "they had provided the diocese of Koper, Slovenia an 'extensive letter' outlining the allegations against the Rev. Marko Ivan Rupnik and notice that he had been convicted and excommunicated for committing one of the most serious crimes in the Catholic Church" (link) is certainly disturbing and does not reflect well on that diocese. Meanwhile Vatican News reported today that his case is still being investigated and in fact expanded.
Worth remembering I think that many people (including, I believe your good self and my good self) even if not quite crying "calumny" over accusations against Cardinal Pell at least doubted them, and these doubts eventually proved justified when he was acquitted. Everybody is entitled to due process, both victims and perpetrators. The normal process is to suspend the accused cleric and ensure he is not allowed access to minors and the vulnerable while the case is investigated, both by Church and secular authorities.
I'n not up to date with the case of Rupnik. He was expelled from the Jesuits, largely because he refused to accept the conditions which are normally imposed on someone accused of abuse, and as far as I know he has not been reinstated. There have been reports that he was also excommunicated. The fact that he has now apparently been incardinated into a Slovenian diocese despite the Jesuits stating that "they had provided the diocese of Koper, Slovenia an 'extensive letter' outlining the allegations against the Rev. Marko Ivan Rupnik and notice that he had been convicted and excommunicated for committing one of the most serious crimes in the Catholic Church" (link) is certainly disturbing and does not reflect well on that diocese. Meanwhile Vatican News reported today that his case is still being investigated and in fact expanded.
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Today, Friday of the first full week of Lent is again Friday of Week I of the Liturgy of the Hours (breviary, Divine Office, the daily prayer of the Church), and so in Morning Prayer I find myself reading again from Ephesians 4:29-32, which I also quoted in a parallel thread when it came up in the breviary recently. I have prayerfully reflected on it a lot since then.
I find it a very demanding text. That first line has been variously presented in different English translations of the bible, including "Do not use harmful words in talking. Use only helpful words, the kind that build up" in the 1974 version of the breviary which I use, "No foul word should ever cross your lips; let your words be for the improvement of others" in the Catholic New Jerusalem Bible, "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying" in the KJV, and "Let no evil speech proceed from your mouth; but that which is good, to the edification of faith" in the old Douay-Rheims Catholic bible which I grew up with. It's an ongoing challenge for me to keep my own words in line with St Paul's teaching in some of these emotionally charged conversations about deeply held convictions. I pray for patience, wisdom and guidance, and ask forgiveness of God and the members of this LT group when I fall short. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Let me wish everybody a fruitful and blessed Lent.
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.(NIV)
I find it a very demanding text. That first line has been variously presented in different English translations of the bible, including "Do not use harmful words in talking. Use only helpful words, the kind that build up" in the 1974 version of the breviary which I use, "No foul word should ever cross your lips; let your words be for the improvement of others" in the Catholic New Jerusalem Bible, "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying" in the KJV, and "Let no evil speech proceed from your mouth; but that which is good, to the edification of faith" in the old Douay-Rheims Catholic bible which I grew up with. It's an ongoing challenge for me to keep my own words in line with St Paul's teaching in some of these emotionally charged conversations about deeply held convictions. I pray for patience, wisdom and guidance, and ask forgiveness of God and the members of this LT group when I fall short. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Let me wish everybody a fruitful and blessed Lent.
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>144 brone:
Yes, I have no disagreement with you that cases such as those you describe should be tried, although I would suggest it should be in criminal courts rather than civil courts. Indeed I believe I said as much in >142 John5918:, calling for due process for both the victim and the alleged perpetrator.
Yes, I have no disagreement with you that cases such as those you describe should be tried, although I would suggest it should be in criminal courts rather than civil courts. Indeed I believe I said as much in >142 John5918:, calling for due process for both the victim and the alleged perpetrator.
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>148 brone:
I think the point would be that you can't kick anybody out, to use your term, based on unsubstantiated allegations. You cite no sources for any of the cases you mention and in >146 brone: you use strange pseudonyms ("Rainbow Timmy"?) so even we can't follow up, to say nothing of the Church's investigators. Every case has to be properly investigated, and it's often very complex, often one person's word against another's in situations where there are no independent witnesses, and often from many years ago, leading to great difficulties for investigators. Indeed it's often impossible to find proof beyond reasonable doubt. Again you don't cite a source for your quote that "The allegations were thoroughly investigated and found to be unsubstantiated", but if that's the case, so be it. The examples of Cardinal George Pell and the posthumous case of Anglican Bishop George Bell (a coincidence that they have such similar names!) show that it is important not to rush to judgement. But if, as you say, it's "time to call the cops in", why has nobody done so? A crime can be reported to the police by the victim themselves or any other person who is aware of it - it doesn't have to wait for the Church authorities to do so.
I think the point would be that you can't kick anybody out, to use your term, based on unsubstantiated allegations. You cite no sources for any of the cases you mention and in >146 brone: you use strange pseudonyms ("Rainbow Timmy"?) so even we can't follow up, to say nothing of the Church's investigators. Every case has to be properly investigated, and it's often very complex, often one person's word against another's in situations where there are no independent witnesses, and often from many years ago, leading to great difficulties for investigators. Indeed it's often impossible to find proof beyond reasonable doubt. Again you don't cite a source for your quote that "The allegations were thoroughly investigated and found to be unsubstantiated", but if that's the case, so be it. The examples of Cardinal George Pell and the posthumous case of Anglican Bishop George Bell (a coincidence that they have such similar names!) show that it is important not to rush to judgement. But if, as you say, it's "time to call the cops in", why has nobody done so? A crime can be reported to the police by the victim themselves or any other person who is aware of it - it doesn't have to wait for the Church authorities to do so.
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>150 brone:
I still have no idea who "Timmy" is (surely not Cardinal Timothy Dolan?), but if he is "under scrutiny", as you say, then it sounds as if the case is being investigated by the appropriate authorities, which is how it should be.
I still have no idea who "Timmy" is (surely not Cardinal Timothy Dolan?), but if he is "under scrutiny", as you say, then it sounds as if the case is being investigated by the appropriate authorities, which is how it should be.
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A different and oft-neglected aspect of clergy sexual abuse in the Catholic Church:
Why the Church must be willing to love the children of priests – and set them free (Tablet)
Why the Church must be willing to love the children of priests – and set them free (Tablet)
“Now with a broader mandate and after a period of restructuring to align itself with its new place within the Roman Curia, the {Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors} recently approved the creation of a Study Group on the question of Vulnerability which will also consider the subject as it pertains to children of priests”... So, what should the Commission do? The first step is to say the words, “children of the ordained and religious”, verbally, out loud and into a microphone before the media. Analyse the problems experienced by children of priests, as heard directly from said individuals... Collate the findings and direct statements as heard by those in attendance at the first conference concerning children of the ordained/religious and examine them with appropriate psychological and church safeguarding experts... to come to a much deeper and more intimate understanding of the psychological, social, and cultural issues that impact children of priests. What lasting impact do these experiences have upon their lives from an employment, educational, and psychological perspective?... For the first time, openly, the church could respond in a maternal way, for the church is maternal, from a theological perspective... begin with a sincere apology for the enslavement of children of priests... We, your children, are still enslaved, enslaved by institutional secrecy, as old as the church itself... Are you ashamed of us, your children, or, are you willing to love us and set us free?
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At 50, I had a flashback to a priest abusing me as a child. Then I decided to confront him (Guardian)
Mary Dispenza spent years as a nun and working in the church before her buried memories rose to the surface. It was the start of her long journey towards justice and peace...
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Portuguese bishops outline compensation plan for abuse victims (Tablet)
The bishops of Portugal announced a plan to provide financial compensation for victims of clerical sexual abuse. Full details of the plan, which was announced in a statement at the end of the most recent plenary meeting of the bishops’ conference, were not immediately released, but it included provision for a common fund into which all of Portugal’s diocese will pay...
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Culture of Catholic Church must change in response to abuse crisis, says report (Tablet)
The culture, habits and practices of the Catholic Church have played their part in the sexual abuse crisis and so need to change, according to a new study from the University of Durham. A fear of scandal, a tradition of silence and secrecy, together with a culture of clericalism and a lack of accountability are all highlighted in the report as helping to cause abuse remaining hidden for generations and exacerbating the trauma felt by victims. It urges not only Church leaders but the entire Catholic community to counter the habits that allowed abuse to linger for so long. The report, The Cross of the Moment, has been produced by Durham’s Centre for Catholic Studies after four years of research which included listening to survivors of abuse as well as members of the laity affected by scandals in their schools and parishes, members of religious communities, priests and bishops. Like the Government-led Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, it focused on the experiences of abuse victims and survivors but is the first study to examine how the abuse crisis affected the whole Catholic community in England and Wales. It paints a picture of a damaged community which has yet to fully come to terms with the revealed scandals that have beset the Church in the past 30 years. According to the report the scandal “has tested and, in some ways, broken crucial parts of what we thought we knew about ourselves as a Catholic community. It has caused deep harm and damage, and the impact continues still, most profoundly for victims and survivors, and for our life as a Church and our mission here in England and Wales”...
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>159 brone:
I'm just wondering who believes these are infallible? Is this not perhaps a straw person? There are strict criteria for a teaching to be declared infallible. Nevertheless, non-infallible teachings (the "ordinary magisterium") of the pope and the bishops are to be treated with respect and not just dismissed, ridiculed, denigrated and ignored. See Lumen Gentium 25:
I'm just wondering who believes these are infallible? Is this not perhaps a straw person? There are strict criteria for a teaching to be declared infallible. Nevertheless, non-infallible teachings (the "ordinary magisterium") of the pope and the bishops are to be treated with respect and not just dismissed, ridiculed, denigrated and ignored. See Lumen Gentium 25:
This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking...
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Listening in a crisis – ‘where right is done’ (Tablet)
The abuse of children happens across religious and non-religious organisations, with many reports investigating the Church and its failures to respond. Now new research focuses on how Catholic culture and theology can work towards the concept of redemption. Every Catholic is wearily familiar with the shameful awareness that the sexual abuse of children by priests happened in the Church, and that in all too many cases the abuse was ignored or covered up. Hardly a week goes by without media coverage either of new revelations or of unresolved cases across the global Church. Since the crisis erupted into view several decades ago, the impact on its life and mission has been immense, changing the face of the Church both within and without its boundaries for ever. But there are questions Catholics have still not asked and voices which have not been sufficiently heard. The narrative is often oversimplified, sometimes reflecting the “bad apples” theory of individual offenders, or taking refuge in blaming those in authority for all that has failed... it has changed life for every Catholic. Across studies of the abuse crisis, there has been a growing recognition that systemic factors are involved in how abuse has happened and how the response has often been inadequate. In other words, there are habits and ways of thinking which operate in Catholic life that are implicated in the crisis. These arise from and are embedded in larger systems of ideas shaped by church teaching and theology, in ways that are often barely noticed. They are woven into Catholic culture, into the ways things are done in each local church...
We were concerned more with the meaning of this experience as it has affected the whole Catholic community in its many constituent parts, and with the knots in Catholic theology which underlie and influence our habits and relationships in the Church. We sought to explore what might be reparative most of all for victims and survivors but also for the whole ecclesial body. As the research progressed, several convictions grew. The first is that to seek a full discernment, all should have their say... A second conviction was that while there has been sound research on how individual priests and Religious become abusers, there has been less examination of how and why our communal and institutional response to victims and survivors has so often lacked courage, compassion or justice. It cannot be denied that there have been failures of leadership and safeguarding practice at all levels. But there are also larger questions about the health and maturity of the whole ecclesial body which we concluded need attention... There is much to learn from ideas associated with restorative justice... The abuse crisis reveals us to ourselves as a sinful and wounded body. There is no other Church but all of us, together, seeking the grace of forgiveness and the courage to own responsibility...
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‘It wasn’t a big deal’: secret deposition reveals how a child molester priest was shielded by his church (Guardian)
Edited to add: Frustration as trial of New Orleans priest accused of rape further delayed (Guardian)
Lawrence Hecker pleaded the fifth 117 times as he detailed how the Catholic church protected him for more than two decades after he admitted to molesting children... A sworn deposition Hecker gave in private in 2020 shows exactly how high-placed Catholic church officials in New Orleans let him keep his elevated position for years, even after they had been advised to oust him from the clergy and – much later – publicly acknowledged that he was a child predator. “It wasn’t a big deal in those days,” Hecker said at the deposition about how his archdiocese coddled him despite his acknowledged abuse of children. The scale of the cover-up shocks the conscience... Hecker avoided being publicly exposed as a predator for nearly two decades. He was also able to collect tens of thousands of dollars in assistance from the second-oldest US archdiocese before at last facing a meaningful consequence: a grand jury indictment in September of last year that charged him with child rape, kidnapping and other crimes... Hecker’s testimony was enlightening even as he avoided answering many questions by invoking his rights against self-incrimination under the constitution’s fifth amendment. He did so a staggering 117 times – or about once every four minutes – in a sign of concern that eventually law enforcement could use his answers against him...
Edited to add: Frustration as trial of New Orleans priest accused of rape further delayed (Guardian)
A dispute over whether a retired New Orleans Catholic priest technically remains hospitalized or not is the latest reason his high-profile rape and kidnapping trial has been delayed. Lawrence Hecker, 92, a confessed serial child molester, has been residing at Bridgepoint continuing care facility in Marrero, Louisiana, a facility across the Mississippi River from New Orleans that is attached to a hospital campus. Hecker was hospitalized elsewhere in January – three months following his arrest on rape and kidnapping charges – for delirium brought on by a urinary tract infection and Covid. But at a hearing on Thursday that was supposed to determine Hecker’s competency to stand trial, neither his defense attorneys nor prosecutors knew who ordered his stay at Bridgepoint or for what medical reason. The judge presiding over the case, Ben Willard, asked for Hecker’s medical records from Bridgepoint and set a new hearing for 13 June...
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‘Shame and betrayal’: sexual abuse within the spiritual healing industry comes to light (Guardian)
Scandalous behavior that has dogged the Catholic church is becoming increasingly common in shamanic healing circles. Shamanic healing or opportunity for ritualized abuse? A lawsuit filed in New Mexico last week alleged that a “shamanic master” assaulted a woman during an “energy medicine” training session in March. The claim, which is being investigated, could shed more light on what some say is a dark side of some trends in modern spirituality, especially those that involve the ceremonial use of often intense psychedelic treatments...
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Child sex abuse is all around us – and online it can start with legal porn (Guardian)
Men not originally sexually attracted to children sometimes seek more extreme content, research shows... Because child sexual abuse is such a horrific and unthinkable crime, we tend to “other” the men who do it. They won’t be men in our families, workplaces and communities, but evil individuals in other people’s lives... The figures tell something different: child sexual abuse is depressingly common, with at least 15% of girls and 5% of boys experiencing it before the age of 16, and abuse within the family is one of the more common types reported to police. The sad truth is that many of us will unwittingly know men who have sexually abused children. Another misperception is that child sexual abuse is driven primarily by the perverted sexual attraction some men feel towards pre-pubescent children. That accounts for some offending, but it is far from the whole story: child sexual abuse, like other sex crimes, can be more about risk, power and control; and it is also very much a crime of opportunity. If there is more opportunity to offend, more child sexual abuse will happen. There is perhaps no place that offers greater opportunities to engage with child sexual abuse than the internet, whether through viewing images of child sexual abuse, or creating them by grooming and exploiting children online... Viewing pornography does not mean someone will necessarily escalate to illegal sexual images but, for the men the foundation worked with, “adult pornography often serves as a gateway to viewing sexual images of children”. The theory about how one leads to the other is thought to be because some people become desensitised in their response to pornographic stimulus... Some people report needing to consume increasingly novel – and in some cases, extreme – forms of pornography in order to get the same “hit” as from when they first started watching porn. The online world makes that entirely possible. So some men who have ended up viewing sexual images of children may not have originally been sexually attracted to children... the most striking feature of men who view but do not produce sexual images of children is their “ordinariness” compared with those convicted of contact child sexual abuse. This makes for uncomfortable reading because it challenges our preconceptions about the men who view child sexual abuse online...
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Two articles from the Tablet about Lithuania and Poland:
Clerical abuse still hidden by fear, Lithuanian Church warned
Polish abuse victims demand suspension of bishops’ conference president
Clerical abuse still hidden by fear, Lithuanian Church warned
Reporters investigating clerical abuse in the Lithuanian Church have said that many victims remain too scared to disclose what they have experienced, for fear they could be identified... “The strategic purpose throughout the whole year was for this problem to be taken seriously,” said Danute Gailiene, a psychology professor at Vilnius University, speaking at last week’s discussion. “It takes some time to dismantle the denial and refusal to believe that the abuse problem is real, whether by the hierarchy or the general public”...
Polish abuse victims demand suspension of bishops’ conference president
Survivors of clergy sex abuse have written to the Polish bishops’ conference demandingan an investigation of its president. They have accused Archbishop Tadeusz Wojda of Gdansk of negligence in handling a sexual abuse case. “In many Polish dioceses...the welfare of institutions turns out to be more important than human suffering,” they said... “Until today, we spoke as individuals. This is the first time our voice is heard as a group in Poland. We wanted the bishops to know – we are together”...
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Megachurch pastor and ex-Trump adviser admits child sexual abuse (Guardian)
And not sexual abuse, but: 'Bling bishop' US pastor sentenced to 9 years (BBC)
A Texas evangelical pastor and former spiritual adviser to Donald Trump has confessed to sexually assaulting a young girl in his past. Robert Morris, a founding pastor of the Dallas-based Gateway megachurch, was accused by an Oklahoma woman of sexual abuse in the 1980s, beginning when she was 12 and continuing until the age of 16. Morris confirmed the allegations to a religious publication, the Christian Post. In a statement to the Christian Post, Morris said: “When I was in my early 20s, I was involved in inappropriate sexual behavior with a young lady in a home where I was staying.” In her own statement to the Christian Post, the victim of the assault said she was “appalled” at the description of her as a “young lady” and said the repeated abuse had taken decades for her to process...
And not sexual abuse, but: 'Bling bishop' US pastor sentenced to 9 years (BBC)
A flamboyant Brooklyn pastor known as the "Bling bishop" has been sentenced to nine years in prison for schemes that included preying on the bank account of one of his own followers. Lamor Whitehead, a New York preacher known for his flashy lifestyle, was found guilty in March of wire fraud, attempted wire fraud, attempted extortion and making false statements to federal investigators. Prosecutors argued that Whitehead, 45, used his position as a religious leader to fleece people out of money to fund his lavish lifestyle... Damian Williams, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, called Whitehead a "con man" and said the sentence marks the end of his "various schemes". Officials say Whitehead, who led the Leaders of Tomorrow International Ministries in Canarsie, New York, deceived people with false promises and stole their money to purchase items including fancy clothing and cars...
169John5918
>168 brone:
Interesting question. If someone is convicted of a crime, does that automatically negate all the positive things that they have done? I think of a British priest whom I knew personally many years ago who was sent to prison for child sexual abuse. He had written extremely good biblical books for children, books which were very useful in catechesis and liturgy. It's right and proper that he was convicted and sent to gaol. But should we therefore scrap all of his books, regardless of whether they can still serve a positive role? In the case of an architect, should we pull down any churches they built? Should we vandalise good art because of the actions of the artist? A difficult question, I think.
Edited to add: Here is an article reporting that Cardinal Seán O’Malley, the president of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors, has asked all Vatican dicasteries to avoid using artwork that could “indicate indifference to the pain and suffering of so many victims of abuse”. The article continues, "Rupnik’s art, which decorates major shrines across the world including Lourdes, has been subject to scrutiny since allegations over the past two years of his repeated spiritual and sexual abuse of women."
Interesting question. If someone is convicted of a crime, does that automatically negate all the positive things that they have done? I think of a British priest whom I knew personally many years ago who was sent to prison for child sexual abuse. He had written extremely good biblical books for children, books which were very useful in catechesis and liturgy. It's right and proper that he was convicted and sent to gaol. But should we therefore scrap all of his books, regardless of whether they can still serve a positive role? In the case of an architect, should we pull down any churches they built? Should we vandalise good art because of the actions of the artist? A difficult question, I think.
Edited to add: Here is an article reporting that Cardinal Seán O’Malley, the president of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors, has asked all Vatican dicasteries to avoid using artwork that could “indicate indifference to the pain and suffering of so many victims of abuse”. The article continues, "Rupnik’s art, which decorates major shrines across the world including Lourdes, has been subject to scrutiny since allegations over the past two years of his repeated spiritual and sexual abuse of women."
171John5918
Yes, as I said, a difficult question. The psychological wellbeing of the victims of abuse is certainly a major factor, as is the perception of whether the Church is taking it seriously, as Cardinal O'Malley says, which is why "Rupnik’s art, which decorates major shrines across the world including Lourdes, has been subject to scrutiny". For the bishop of Lourdes saying it is his opinion that Rupnik's art should be removed is not "sitting on the fence", it's expressing a concrete opinion. Your disparaging innuendo against him, the Holy Father, O'Malley and Víctor Manuel Fernández is neither charitable nor helpful in dealing with the issue of sexual abuse.
173John5918
>172 brone:
Are you referring to Cardinal Timothy Dolan? If so, he's generally considered to be a hardline "conservative", so I hardly think he is sympathetic to gay activities in his diocese (if that's what you mean by "rainbow reich"). I wish you wouldn't use made up nicknames for people and issues as it makes it very difficult to follow what you are talking about.
Are you referring to Cardinal Timothy Dolan? If so, he's generally considered to be a hardline "conservative", so I hardly think he is sympathetic to gay activities in his diocese (if that's what you mean by "rainbow reich"). I wish you wouldn't use made up nicknames for people and issues as it makes it very difficult to follow what you are talking about.
174John5918
Vatican Applauds AMECEA Region for Commitment to Safeguarding Initiatives (AMECEA)
At a conference that brought together a section of Bishops from the Association of Member Episcopal Conferences in Eastern Africa (AMECEA) region and other clerics dealing with protection of minors in dioceses, Vatican official has appreciated the move by the region in their commitment to safeguarding children, minors and the vulnerable. The Secretary to the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors (PCPM), Bishop Luis Manuel Ali Herrera, who began his mandate this year in mid-March, acknowledged in his address to the participants on Tuesday July 2, that Small Christian Communities (SCCs) which is a small group of Christian believers who meet regularly to share the word of God and help each other grow in faith, is a strong pillar for the AMECEA region in promoting safeguarding issues. “I am very encouraged that as Bishops you are already doing a lot of work in safeguarding and child protection in your countries…. I understand most of your Episcopal Conferences are doing a lot in training personnel working with children in your institutions. This is a clear indication of your commitment in integrating safeguarding into your evangelization work”... He added that it is “commendable that all AMECEA member Episcopal Conferences have safeguarding offices and that plans are underway to review the policies that are aligned with Vos Estis Lux Mundi (An apostolic letter that established new procedural norms to combat sexual abuse and ensure that bishops and religious superiors are held accountable for their actions) and other relevant church documents. According to the Vatican official, “The visionary leadership in the AMECEA region supported by the church’s structure from the Small Christian Communities to the Conference level, is strategic as families are the foundation for child protection”...
175John5918
>170 brone: the kissing on the mouth fetish these guys love
I presume here that you are referring to a book written many years ago in the Christian mystical genre by Fr (now cardinal) Víctor Manuel Fernández. We have discussed it elsewhere on LT. I was reminded of it this week as I am proofreading a manuscript which is an English translation of a text written in 1585 by a Franciscan Catholic priest, Fr Anthony Pagani, entitled Le Sponsalitie dell Anima con Christo, translated as "The Spousal Intimacies of the Soul with Christ". It struck me again how much of the mystical tradition of the Church uses the language of intimacy, sensuality, sexuality and eroticism in describing our relationship with Jesus the Christ, the Beloved, the Bridegroom, the Spouse. Pagani quotes extensively from the Scriptures, both Old and New Testament, particularly Song of Songs, as well as the prophets, psalms, gospels and epistles. There's a great deal of Christian religious writing which, if read out of context, might be classified as soft porn.
I presume here that you are referring to a book written many years ago in the Christian mystical genre by Fr (now cardinal) Víctor Manuel Fernández. We have discussed it elsewhere on LT. I was reminded of it this week as I am proofreading a manuscript which is an English translation of a text written in 1585 by a Franciscan Catholic priest, Fr Anthony Pagani, entitled Le Sponsalitie dell Anima con Christo, translated as "The Spousal Intimacies of the Soul with Christ". It struck me again how much of the mystical tradition of the Church uses the language of intimacy, sensuality, sexuality and eroticism in describing our relationship with Jesus the Christ, the Beloved, the Bridegroom, the Spouse. Pagani quotes extensively from the Scriptures, both Old and New Testament, particularly Song of Songs, as well as the prophets, psalms, gospels and epistles. There's a great deal of Christian religious writing which, if read out of context, might be classified as soft porn.
176John5918
US priest’s sexual assault accusers felt they ‘could not say no’, police say (Guardian)
At least eight people have accused Anthony Odiong of abusing his position for sexual coercion...
179John5918
>178 brone:
I'm travelling and haven't seen that article. Could you cite a reference, please, so we can all have a butcher's at it?
I'm travelling and haven't seen that article. Could you cite a reference, please, so we can all have a butcher's at it?
181John5918
>180 brone:
Here's an example the "younger more spiritual group of priests who will not cozy up to Mammon" who are indeed replacing the older generation:
Pastoral Year Seminarians in Ghana Conclude Workshop with Pledge to “adopt a synodal approach in our care for souls” (ACI Africa)
I might add that I'm familiar with a lot of young African priests who are members of missionary orders, and most of them are first class, very spiritual, and certainly not "cosying up" to "Mammon" nor to secular ideologies.
Here's an example the "younger more spiritual group of priests who will not cozy up to Mammon" who are indeed replacing the older generation:
Pastoral Year Seminarians in Ghana Conclude Workshop with Pledge to “adopt a synodal approach in our care for souls” (ACI Africa)
Seminarians from Ghana’s three Major Seminaries of theology, who are having their pastoral experience have concluded their three-day workshop with the pledge to “adopt a synodal approach” in their way of life and ministry now as Seminarians and in future as Priests... The Seminarians says they have resolved to embrace “quality listening” as a key component of their synodal commitment and their “modus operandi in every pastoral setting to create a safe environment for all to feel at home”... They further express their commitment to making the “Conversation in the Spirit” method a way of life. This method, they say, will help them cultivate an atmosphere of trust and openness. “It shall also help us to listen to what the Holy Spirit is telling us through our experiences and those of others”... Drawing inspiration from Pope Francis, who has encouraged the people of God to embrace three virtues of synodality that include “thinking as God thinks, overcoming exclusiveness, and cultivating humility”, the Seminarians pledge to be “active agents” in fostering a Synodal Church in Ghana...
I might add that I'm familiar with a lot of young African priests who are members of missionary orders, and most of them are first class, very spiritual, and certainly not "cosying up" to "Mammon" nor to secular ideologies.
182John5918
Ireland to set up inquiry into sexual abuse at schools run by religious orders (Guardian)
The Irish government is to set up a statutory commission of inquiry into sexual abuse at schools run by Catholic religious orders after a preliminary investigation found almost 2,400 allegations of historic abuse. The investigation, led by a leading barrister, Mary O’Toole, documented 844 alleged abusers in 308 schools run by 42 religious orders across the Republic of Ireland...
183brone
What is now the appropriate locker room sign? I see one that says, "children over 6 years old must use appropiate locker room". This meant in a more innocent age boy's use men's locker rooms and girls use women's locker rooms. But that was so then before the elite deep thinkers discovered more genders than Howard Johnston had icecream flavors. A "domestic terrorist" up in Virginia caused a commotion by comlaining in a school board meeting of his daughter being sexually abused by a "trangender" in the girl's bathroom this was covered up by the board. As we all know leftists change the meanings of words such as appropriate which seems to mean now, not determined by self-evidence but by personal declaration such as "I am X" or "I am a woman with a penis" nondiscrimination requires you to "afirm" me. So now the question becomes who determines what is appropriate an external observer cannot know what is now appropriate and now has to be told. Signs over locker rooms will be relics as we finally move on from the "bathroom wars". The once protected privacy, sexual reality, and consistant rule of law from public regulations that took sexual differentiation seriously are very much an issue in the upcoming election.+JMJ+
184John5918
New abuse allegations emerge against once-venerated French priest (BBC)
More abuse allegations have been made against Abbé Pierre, the late French Roman Catholic priest and campaigner who was long venerated as a modern-day saint. In July, the Emmaus anti-poverty charity which Abbé Pierre founded said it had heard allegations of sexual assault and harassment from seven women and it believed them. Emmaus has now decided to expunge Abbé Pierre from the organisation after 17 more women spoke out about having suffered abuse at his hands. The priest, who died in 2007 aged 94, used to regularly appear in polls as one of the most popular French people of modern times because of his tireless work for the poor and homeless. The Emmaus movement, which he founded in 1949, operates in more than 40 countries. In France, his caped and bearded figure became an emblem of Christian self-sacrifice. Now, following a second release of witness statements gathered by Egaé, an independent consultancy, the movement has decided to remove Abbé Pierre’s name from its various organisations...
186John5918
>185 brone:
That Cardinal McElroy was appointed to San Diego is a fact. That he was sent there "to cover up as much as he could the horrible abuse crimes coming out of there" is uncharitable and scurrilous speculation, innuendo, gossip, mudslinging, fake news, slander, character assassination and probably other words, but not a demonstrable fact. Unless you can point us towards some actual evidence?
That Cardinal McElroy was appointed to San Diego is a fact. That he was sent there "to cover up as much as he could the horrible abuse crimes coming out of there" is uncharitable and scurrilous speculation, innuendo, gossip, mudslinging, fake news, slander, character assassination and probably other words, but not a demonstrable fact. Unless you can point us towards some actual evidence?
188John5918
>187 brone:
I'm not mad, I'm just interested in reading about facts and evidence rather than speculation. Citing some links would help.
I'm not mad, I'm just interested in reading about facts and evidence rather than speculation. Citing some links would help.
190John5918
>189 brone: How can we ignore such profound and grave evil, which at this point is broadcast in the open on television, podcasts, newspapers, and virtual broadband
Well, yes and no. It is now widely known and accepted that many officials of the Catholic Church committed sexual abuse and others covered it up. But that does not mean that any and every individual can be accused of these crimes and found guilty by the media. A classic case is that of the late Cardinal George Pell, who was found guilty by the lower courts and was pilloried by the media, but who was eventually acquitted by a higher court. The Church of England rushed to accept posthumous allegations against the similarly named Bishop George Bell, but later had to retract and apologise, finding the claims unfounded. And you yourself have raised the issue of the late Bishop Fulton Sheen, who has also been posthumously investigated for his handling of sexual abuse allegations. You are convinced the allegations against Sheen are unfounded. So while every allegation has to be taken seriously, cases must be judged individually on investigation of evidence, not on innuendo and the fact that they are "broadcast in the open". In recent posts you name McElroy, Cupich, Martin, Wilson, Gregory and Dolan, and I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for some indication of what evidence is available for these accusations. McCarrick, on the other hand, has been found guilty of abuse.
I think you and I have different attitudes towards information sharing. Part of my work for decades has been writing and editing books, chapters, reports, policy analysis, statements, articles, papers, pastoral messages, etc to be published in the public domain. Not only do these have to be fact-checked, but also scrutinised very carefully to make sure that one is not making any claims for which one cannot provide credible evidence, particularly claims which can have a significant impact on people's lives and careers. For that reason I am very conscious of the need to use careful language, and to cite the source of claims, and I always try to do so, both in my published work but also when I post messages anywhere in the public domain, such as here on LT. Apparently you hold a very different view, and you refuse to cite sources. I would add that generally mainstream media is fact-checked and is held to professional standards, but much of social media is not, so one has to be very careful about information sourced that way.
Well, yes and no. It is now widely known and accepted that many officials of the Catholic Church committed sexual abuse and others covered it up. But that does not mean that any and every individual can be accused of these crimes and found guilty by the media. A classic case is that of the late Cardinal George Pell, who was found guilty by the lower courts and was pilloried by the media, but who was eventually acquitted by a higher court. The Church of England rushed to accept posthumous allegations against the similarly named Bishop George Bell, but later had to retract and apologise, finding the claims unfounded. And you yourself have raised the issue of the late Bishop Fulton Sheen, who has also been posthumously investigated for his handling of sexual abuse allegations. You are convinced the allegations against Sheen are unfounded. So while every allegation has to be taken seriously, cases must be judged individually on investigation of evidence, not on innuendo and the fact that they are "broadcast in the open". In recent posts you name McElroy, Cupich, Martin, Wilson, Gregory and Dolan, and I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for some indication of what evidence is available for these accusations. McCarrick, on the other hand, has been found guilty of abuse.
I think you and I have different attitudes towards information sharing. Part of my work for decades has been writing and editing books, chapters, reports, policy analysis, statements, articles, papers, pastoral messages, etc to be published in the public domain. Not only do these have to be fact-checked, but also scrutinised very carefully to make sure that one is not making any claims for which one cannot provide credible evidence, particularly claims which can have a significant impact on people's lives and careers. For that reason I am very conscious of the need to use careful language, and to cite the source of claims, and I always try to do so, both in my published work but also when I post messages anywhere in the public domain, such as here on LT. Apparently you hold a very different view, and you refuse to cite sources. I would add that generally mainstream media is fact-checked and is held to professional standards, but much of social media is not, so one has to be very careful about information sourced that way.
191John5918
US Catholic diocese agrees to pay $323m to child sexual abuse survivors (Guardian)
A Roman Catholic diocese in Long Island, New York, announced a new bankruptcy settlement on Thursday that would pay more than $323m to about 530 sex abuse survivors who alleged they were abused by priests when they were children... Diocese spokesperson Eric Fasano said the settlement would ensure “the equitable compensation of survivors of abuse while allowing the church to continue her essential mission”... More than two dozen Catholic dioceses have filed for bankruptcy in recent years, after New York and other states enacted laws that temporarily enabled victims of child sexual abuse to file lawsuits over decades-old crimes...
192John5918
Pope says church must be ashamed of Belgium sexual abuse (BBC)
Pope Francis has been welcomed to Belgium with powerful speeches from both the prime minister and the king condemning the Catholic Church’s handling of sexual abuse. It was some of the most direct criticism levelled at the Church by a country’s leaders on the issue during a papal visit, with both King Philippe and Alexander de Croo alluding to the pontiff’s own responsibility in bringing about justice. The Pope acknowledged their comments, saying the Church “must be ashamed” but said it was a matter that was being dealt with “firmly and decisively”. Late on Friday, behind closed doors, the Pope met 17 survivors of abuse by members of the Catholic Church. At the Palace of Laeken the Pope looked on solemnly as first the king of the Belgians and then the prime minister were unusually forthright in their comments about the body that he leads. “It has taken far too long for the cries to be heard and acknowledged. It has taken far too long to begin looking for ways to repair the irreparable,” King Philippe said of victims of Church abuse. De Croo then talked of the damage that had been done by the hundreds of sexual abuse cases associated with the Catholic Church in Belgium. “We cannot ignore the painful wounds that exist within the Catholic faith community and wider society,” he said, before addressing Pope Francis personally. “You are committed to justice, but there is still a long way to go,” said the prime minister. Today, words alone do not suffice. We also need concrete steps"...
193John5918
Balance Between Policy and Societal Values Key in Child Safeguarding: Kenyan Catholic Nun (ACI Africa)
For child care reforms to work effectively, government policies must be integrated with societal values, a Kenyan Nun working as a Safeguarding Officer in Ethiopia has said... Sr. Beatrice Mary emphasized the importance of balancing legal frameworks with traditional communal care practices to enhance child welfare. “Policies are important guidelines that help the society to understand the rights of children to be cared for and kept safe. But values instilled within society are equally important”... Sr. Mary decried the weakening of the community-based child care, saying, “In the past, a child could be cared for and disciplined by anyone in the community.” She described the shift towards individualism in child care as a key concern, noting, “People are more individualistic, and many believe that only they have the right to correct or care for their children”... She observed that families struggling with poverty often find it difficult to provide adequate care for their children. “Support must be provided, whether financial, social, psychological, or through counseling, to enable the family to care for the child effectively,” she said. Sr. Mary noted that while child care reforms are vital, they must be implemented carefully, learning from past experiences to avoid repeating mistakes...
195John5918
>194 brone: It is little reported that PF got an earful from the Belgian King and abuse victims on his latest journey
As far as I can see it was widely reported, and a BBC report on it is linked in >192 John5918: above.
150 bishops still bishoping around who are credibly accused of abusing minors and young teenage boys
That's a distressingly large number. I'd love to read more about it. Can you link to a source where you found this number, please?
As far as I can see it was widely reported, and a BBC report on it is linked in >192 John5918: above.
150 bishops still bishoping around who are credibly accused of abusing minors and young teenage boys
That's a distressingly large number. I'd love to read more about it. Can you link to a source where you found this number, please?
197John5918
I don't know which source you have been looking at, but I have found this one. It does indeed say, "As of August 21, 2024, BishopAccountability.org had identified 107 Catholic bishops worldwide accused publicly of sexual crimes against children and 52 Catholic bishops worldwide who have been accused publicly of sexual wrongdoing against adults only." The accusations date back at least to the 1990s.
However the list includes bishops who were accused but subsequently found to be not guilty, as well as bishops who have gone to prison, or retired or died. It includes, for example, Cardinal George Pell, who was accused, acquitted and has since died. So the claim that 150+ bishops have been accused is true, but focusing on those who are guilty as charged and "still bishoping around" would lead to a significantly lower figure.
That's why I think it's useful to cite sources so that soundbites can be examined in context, usually giving a fuller and more nuanced picture. Even one single instance of sexual abuse is one too many, but if the problem is to be addressed effectively it is important to have an accurate picture of its scale.
However the list includes bishops who were accused but subsequently found to be not guilty, as well as bishops who have gone to prison, or retired or died. It includes, for example, Cardinal George Pell, who was accused, acquitted and has since died. So the claim that 150+ bishops have been accused is true, but focusing on those who are guilty as charged and "still bishoping around" would lead to a significantly lower figure.
That's why I think it's useful to cite sources so that soundbites can be examined in context, usually giving a fuller and more nuanced picture. Even one single instance of sexual abuse is one too many, but if the problem is to be addressed effectively it is important to have an accurate picture of its scale.
198John5918
Cleric Urges Seminaries to Adopt Theory of Change in Safeguarding Practices (AMECEA)
Just one of many examples of the ongoing effort the Catholic Church throughout the world is devoting to safeguarding.
The coordinator for the Pastoral Department at the Association of Member Episcopal Conferences in Eastern Africa (AMECEA) region has called upon the rectors and staff of senior seminaries in Kenya to embrace the Theory of Change (ToC) for safeguarding practices. In his message to the participants during a two-day workshop at St. Mary’s Pastoral Centre in Nakuru Diocese, Fr. Emmanuel Chimombo emphasized the need to have safeguarding policies that are up to date in seminaries to respond to the signs of time. “Responding to the signs of time entails living up to the Theory of Change on matters of Safeguarding aimed at making the AMECEA region safe for minors, vulnerable adults, and everybody”... He explained further the significance of ToC to participants saying, “Theory of Change is essentially a comprehensive description and illustration of how and why a desired change is expected to happen in a particular context”...
Just one of many examples of the ongoing effort the Catholic Church throughout the world is devoting to safeguarding.
199John5918
Vatican Publishes First Report on Church Safeguarding Efforts Worldwide (ACI Africa)
The full report can be found here.
The Vatican issued its first annual report Tuesday assessing the Catholic Church’s policies and procedures to prevent abuse in dioceses worldwide from Africa to Oceania... Released on Oct. 29, the inaugural report found that “a significant part of Central and South America, Africa, and Asia have inadequate dedicated resources” available for safeguarding efforts. The pontifical commission also identified a “persistent concern regarding the transparency in the Roman Curia’s procedures and juridical processes,” noting that this lack of transparency is likely to “foment distrust among the faithful, especially the victim/survivor community.” It pointed to the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith (DDF) in particular for its slow processing of cases and lengthy canonical proceedings, which it said can be a “source of re-traumatization for victims”...
The full report can be found here.
Summary of the Commission’s Main Findings and Observations
The material contained in this pilot Annual Report represents, in part, the reality of the Church’s efforts toward building a culture of safeguarding, corresponding to the mandate given to the Commission by the Holy Father. It is a first attempt to capture not only a theoretical basis for that long-term work but also a pilot application of that theory by offering a presentation of what is happening in local Churches and communities, today. Its focus has been on the policies, procedures, and mechanisms required by Church norms, established to keep children and vulnerable adults safe. It also focuses on the offering of care owed to those impacted by abuse. This pilot Report is not intended as an audit of the incidence of abuse within Church contexts. This is especially due to time and capacity constraints. It is also due to a lack of reliable data in some countries, most notably reliable statistics on the number of children who are sexually abused. Hopefully, future Reports will address the incidence of abuse, including the question of progress in reducing and preventing abuse. This might more completely fulfil the long-term auditing function of the Commission.
After the completion of this pilot Annual Report, the Commission is able to highlight certain main observations based on its safeguarding expertise that aim to: (1) show current deficiencies, (2) promote sound policies and practices, and (3) boost the Church’s overall efforts in safeguarding. These observations stem from the process of collaboration with ecclesiastical bodies but also from the vast experience accumulated by the Commission’s members and related personnel. The Commission recognises that the points that have emerged from this initial consideration, which note key areas for action, need indepth and informed study. Accordingly, the Commission will seek to promote inter dicasterial and interdisciplinary refl ection on these areas. It offers its full cooperation to the bodies involved.
The Commission recognizes that among the top priorities of those impacted by abuse is access to the truth. In line with the call for ever greater transparency, measures should be explored that provide the right of any individual to information related to him/her retained by any Church entity, especially the circumstances and responsibilities related to their case of abuse — with due regard to data protection laws and requirements. As two examples, a Procurator for the aggrieved party and a role comparable to the function of an Ombudsman are proposed for consideration and study by the relevant institutions of the Roman Curia. This study and consideration should be consistent with Article 8, §1 of the Apostolic Constitution Praedicate Evangelium.
Also, there are various normative sources that address the question of vulnerability in adults, occasionally making its definition and enforcement in safeguarding provisions different across contexts. A more uniform definition of vulnerability must be developed. To help in this pursuit, experience gained through the exercise of judicial functions should be shared, with a level of detail sufficient to promote coherent and uniform juridical outcomes, in all areas of the world.
The Commission also notes the important role played by the Roman Curia, and the fact that responsibilities exercised by the dicasteries and local Church authorities are fragmented. An unambiguous and shared protocol that clarifies the various responsibilities, and their limits, in a timely manner would help to avoid delays in the Roman Curia’s service to the local Churches. This should especially be consistent with Article 9, §1 of the Apostolic Constitution Praedicate Evangelium.
In its ten years of service, the Commission has seen Church leaders who have been subjects of past administrative actions and/or inactions that have been the source of additional harm to victims/survivors of sexual abuse. Such a reality reveals the need for a disciplinary or administrative proceeding that provides an efficient path for resignation or removal from office.
The Commission acknowledges the need to promote conversion within the Church regarding child dignity and human rights in relation to abuse. This must be through a unified and theological-pastoral vision. The Commission believes that the desirable end point might be a document of the Magisterium unifying these perspectives — as an Encyclical, dedicated to the Protection of the Child and Vulnerable Adults in the Church’s life.
The Commission reiterates the importance of compensation for victims/survivors, as a concrete commitment to their healing journey. Compensation in the Church is not merely reduced to financial aspects, but embraces a much broader spectrum of actions. In fact, as witnessed in the Commission’s local work, other aspects such as acknowledging mistakes, public apologies, and other forms of true fraternal closeness to victims/survivors and their communities are often even more important. To this end, the Commission will delve into the pillar of reparations in the next edition of the Annual Report to better represent all these needs. Nevertheless, economic reparations are also particularly relevant, and the Commission will continue to offer its cooperation to key Church bodies so that standardised and known procedures are developed in a more comprehensive way.
Many Church authorities have shared with the Commission their view of professional training in safeguarding as a fruitful investment to help them better govern their dioceses or congregations. They recognise that this training helps develop a culture of care for victims/survivors of clerical sexual abuse. However, it is necessary to address the significant disparity in resources among local Churches. This resource gap must continue to be filled, to foster the professionalisation of safeguarding across the Church. Finally, the Commission recommends the involvement of the Pontifical Universities in Rome and other academic institutions to create dedicated courses of study for the protection of minors and vulnerable adults within the Church. The curricula should cover the various areas of safeguarding and be designed for clergy, religious, and lay people working in the local Churches.
201John5918
>200 brone:
Not sure what you mean by a "a conclave which results in cleaning out the swamp in the Vatican and other sacred places". Can you elaborate, please?
What we need is to clean house
Broadly speaking, that is what the Church is doing. As you yourself say, abusers found in two (presumably Catholic?) high schools were removed just last week. I'm aware of other recent cases. Commissions and investigations are part of the process which ensures that we do identify and remove the right people - I'm not sure how you think a "couple of NY cops could fix it tomorrow" without first investigating it.
As for Rupnik's case, like you I also don't understand why it is taking so long to resolve, but that is a single high profile case and it is not representative of the many cases which are being resolved all the time.
Not sure what you mean by a "a conclave which results in cleaning out the swamp in the Vatican and other sacred places". Can you elaborate, please?
What we need is to clean house
Broadly speaking, that is what the Church is doing. As you yourself say, abusers found in two (presumably Catholic?) high schools were removed just last week. I'm aware of other recent cases. Commissions and investigations are part of the process which ensures that we do identify and remove the right people - I'm not sure how you think a "couple of NY cops could fix it tomorrow" without first investigating it.
As for Rupnik's case, like you I also don't understand why it is taking so long to resolve, but that is a single high profile case and it is not representative of the many cases which are being resolved all the time.
202John5918
Bishop calls on Welby to resign over Church abuse scandal (BBC)
A Church of England bishop has called on the Archbishop of Canterbury to resign, calling his position "untenable" after a damning report into abuse by a prolific child abuser associated with the Church. Bishop of Newcastle Helen-Ann Hartley is the most senior member of the Church to call on the Most Rev Justin Welby to stand down, following the "horrific, horrendous and shocking" report. Mr Welby is facing mounting pressure to resign after it emerged last week that he did not follow up rigorously enough on reports of John Smyth QC's "abhorrent" abuse of more than 100 boys and young men. A review of the Church’s handling of Smyth’s case said Mr Welby "could and should" have reported the case to authorities when details were presented to him in 2013. Mr Welby acknowledged he should have more rigorously followed up the details and said last week he had considered resigning, but decided to stay in his role. The Makin review into Smyth's case said he might have been brought to justice for decades of abuse before his death in 2018 had he been formally reported to authorities in 2013. Smyth is believed to be the most prolific serial abuser to be associated with the Church of England, having subjected as many as 130 victims to traumatic physical, sexual, psychological and spiritual attacks. Smyth's abuse took place over almost five decades and across three countries, according to the report...
205John5918
>204 brone:
As long as you focus on only particular identity groups of abusers, such as homosexuals and boomers, these "horrific, horrendous, shocking abuses and coverups" will certainly continue. Sexual abuse is committed by all types of people, and a comprehensive and holistic approach to safeguarding is needed. Hence the need, as stated above, for commissions and investigations to determine the scope of the problem and the best solutions for different target groups.
As long as you focus on only particular identity groups of abusers, such as homosexuals and boomers, these "horrific, horrendous, shocking abuses and coverups" will certainly continue. Sexual abuse is committed by all types of people, and a comprehensive and holistic approach to safeguarding is needed. Hence the need, as stated above, for commissions and investigations to determine the scope of the problem and the best solutions for different target groups.
206John5918
Why did Justin Welby fall so tragically short? Because he was preoccupied with efficiency, not listening (Guardian)
For those who are not familiar with her, the author of this article, Catherine Pepinster, is a former editor of the British Roman Catholic magazine The Tablet.
When you look at a high-up cleric – someone like Justin Welby, say, dressed in all his finery, vestments trimmed with gold thread and a bejewelled clasp on his cope, as he was at the coronation of King Charles III – it’s hard to believe this has any connection with a wandering rabbi on the shores of the Sea of Galilee with his band of 12 followers. But Welby and his fellow Church of England prelates take as their guiding light the teachings of that rabbi, Jesus... It is not the first such organisation to make its own wellbeing rather than the survivors of abuse a priority, nor will it probably be the last. We’ve seen it before with schools, for example. The Roman Catholic church has also been culpable and reading the Makin review, I found so much that was all too familiar from my own reporting on Catholic scandals: the failure to act, not taking children’s suffering seriously, making the reputation of the institution a priority, delay in bringing people to justice that leads to other children being exposed to abuse...
agenda-driven episcopacy, rather than a listening episcopacy. You can’t run a church with a handbook full of business buzzwords...
For those who are not familiar with her, the author of this article, Catherine Pepinster, is a former editor of the British Roman Catholic magazine The Tablet.
208John5918
>207 brone:
Marco Rupnik is a man who has been credibly accused by multiple victims of abusing his position, power and authority to sexually abuse adult women. Like you, I do find it surprising that it is taking so long to complete an investigation into his abuse, and that he is still being allowed to work normally in the meantime. You have made it quite clear that you believe action against him should be expedited, and I can't disagree with you there.
I wonder what your view is on another prominent figure who has been credibly accused by multiple victims of abusing his position, power and authority to sexually abuse adult women and who is still being allowed to work normally in high public office, and indeed is attempting to appoint other alleged sex abusers to positions of power around him*, namely Donald Trump?
* There have been credible sexual abuse allegations against both Pete Hegseth and Matt Gaetz whom Trump has nominated for cabinet positions, "mirroring the president-elect’s own history of abusive behavior towards women" (link).
Marco Rupnik is a man who has been credibly accused by multiple victims of abusing his position, power and authority to sexually abuse adult women. Like you, I do find it surprising that it is taking so long to complete an investigation into his abuse, and that he is still being allowed to work normally in the meantime. You have made it quite clear that you believe action against him should be expedited, and I can't disagree with you there.
I wonder what your view is on another prominent figure who has been credibly accused by multiple victims of abusing his position, power and authority to sexually abuse adult women and who is still being allowed to work normally in high public office, and indeed is attempting to appoint other alleged sex abusers to positions of power around him*, namely Donald Trump?
* There have been credible sexual abuse allegations against both Pete Hegseth and Matt Gaetz whom Trump has nominated for cabinet positions, "mirroring the president-elect’s own history of abusive behavior towards women" (link).
209John5918
>203 bnielsen:, >206 John5918:
Anglican Church of Kenya calls for accountability amid UK abuse scandal (Capital News)
Anglican Church of Kenya calls for accountability amid UK abuse scandal (Capital News)
The Anglican Church of Kenya has expressed concern following the revelations of the Church of England’s mishandling of abuse allegations against the late John Smyth QC. Archbishop Jackson Ole Sapit in a statement on Thursday, extended his support to the victims of abuse allegations against the late Smyth QC while also calling for greater accountability and reforms in safeguarding practices within the Church... “As a member of the global family of Anglican Communion, The Anglican Church of Kenya categorically condemns any act of abuse, oppression, and injustices as well as any form of cover-up of such abuses,” said Ole Sapit... He stressed the importance of developing robust safeguarding policies to protect vulnerable members of the Church...
212John5918
>211 brone: Abuse still exists
Indeed, abuse still exists in the Church as it does in every other human institution, not least in the family, and always will, because it appears to be part of the human condition. But the Church has made huge strides in safeguarding, and incidences of abuse have reduced tremendously over the last twenty or thirty years. The high profile cases you mention are not typical.
Indeed, abuse still exists in the Church as it does in every other human institution, not least in the family, and always will, because it appears to be part of the human condition. But the Church has made huge strides in safeguarding, and incidences of abuse have reduced tremendously over the last twenty or thirty years. The high profile cases you mention are not typical.
213John5918
Catholic priest accused of sexual assault fathered children of victims, court hears (Guardian)
This case draws attention to an oft-overlooked facet of clergy sexual abuse, namely the children of Roman Catholic priests.
A Roman Catholic priest with links to Texas and Louisiana who is facing criminal charges for allegedly abusing his position of authority within the church to pursue sex with vulnerable women fathered at least two children with victims of his behavior, authorities have alleged. The stunning information about Anthony Odiong surfaced at a bail hearing on Tuesday in Waco, Texas, where prosecutors have charged him with several counts of sexually assaulting women to whom he ministered...
This case draws attention to an oft-overlooked facet of clergy sexual abuse, namely the children of Roman Catholic priests.
214John5918
Vatican to consider classifying 'spiritual abuse' as new Catholic crime (Reuters)
Pope Francis has asked the Vatican to study whether the Catholic Church should classify "spiritual abuse" as a new crime in order to address cases where priests use purported mystical experiences as a pretext for harming others. A statement from the Vatican's doctrinal office announcing the move did not name any specific cases of such abuse, but the Vatican has had to deal with several in recent years... saying it was "morally grave" to use purported spiritual experiences to exert control over others. One high-profile case involving accusations of abuse concerns Rev. Marko Rupnik, an internationally known Catholic artist and former leader of a spiritual community in Rome...
216John5918
>215 brone:
Yes, many countries have laws limiting foreign adoption for a variety of reasons. Thanks for drawing our attention to Russia in this regard.
Yes, many countries have laws limiting foreign adoption for a variety of reasons. Thanks for drawing our attention to Russia in this regard.
218John5918
>217 brone:
Thanks for raising this. Might be worth reading >214 John5918:. The Vatican is currently addressing this very issue.
Thanks for raising this. Might be worth reading >214 John5918:. The Vatican is currently addressing this very issue.
219John5918
>213 John5918:
Related to the issue of the children of Roman Catholic priests, it has caused a bit of a ruckus in the Catholic Diocese of Man in Ivory Coast after the bishop publicly named it:
Many priests of the diocese rebelled against their bishop following this blunt statement, and Pope Francis has had to appoint an Apostolic Administrator “Sede plena” in the person of Cardinal Jean-Pierre Kutwa, an Archbishop emeritus. However in a statement issued on 31st December the Catholic Priests acknowledge with “regrets” the “unfortunate situation” of Man Diocese following their fallout with their bishop and reach out to the people of God in the Diocese for forgiveness (link).
Related to the issue of the children of Roman Catholic priests, it has caused a bit of a ruckus in the Catholic Diocese of Man in Ivory Coast after the bishop publicly named it:
“Any lay faithful who knows that a Priest is not faithful to his celibacy, that he has a wife or a child, that he has committed sexual abuse or economic crimes, must have the courage to denounce him to the Bishop," Bishop Gnéba was quoted as saying in a 4 January 2024 letter that he reportedly described as "urgent, important and necessary". Remaining silent about such errant Clergy constitutes a “sin of complicity”, the Ivorian Catholic Bishop, who has been at the helm of Man Diocese since his Episcopal Consecration in March 2008 is further quoted as saying, and referred to the Holy Father, who he said “speaks of zero tolerance for these priests"...
Many priests of the diocese rebelled against their bishop following this blunt statement, and Pope Francis has had to appoint an Apostolic Administrator “Sede plena” in the person of Cardinal Jean-Pierre Kutwa, an Archbishop emeritus. However in a statement issued on 31st December the Catholic Priests acknowledge with “regrets” the “unfortunate situation” of Man Diocese following their fallout with their bishop and reach out to the people of God in the Diocese for forgiveness (link).
220John5918
Pope Francis: Christians Have a Duty to Prevent, Condemn Child Exploitation (ACI Africa)
A timely reminder that child abuse is not only sexual. In my neck of the woods child soldiers and child labour are two egregious examples.
Pope Francis used his first general audience of the year to address the scourge of exploitation and violence against children, urging Christians worldwide not to remain indifferent to their pain and suffering. Putting a spotlight on the “scourge of child labor,” the Holy Father lamented that there are “too many children forced to work” who are unable to smile, dream, or nurture their talents. “In every part of the globe, there are children who are exploited by an economy that does not respect life, an economy that, in so doing, consumes our greatest store of hope and love,” he said... the pope said society — especially Christians “who recognize themselves as children of God” — must not turn a blind eye to the plight of vulnerable children. “{Christians} cannot accept that our little sisters and brothers, instead of being loved and protected, are robbed of their childhood, of their dreams, victims of exploitation and marginalization,” he said... the pope prayed: “Let us ask the Lord to open our minds and hearts to care and tenderness, and for every boy and every girl in the world to be able to grow in age, wisdom, and grace, receiving and giving love”...
A timely reminder that child abuse is not only sexual. In my neck of the woods child soldiers and child labour are two egregious examples.
222John5918
>221 brone:
Indeed. Thanks for that reminder. Slavery is still prevalent in Sudan and a number of other countries in the Sahel belt. And human trafficking and various types of forced labour (which often, as you say, includes sexual abuse) are also a form of slavery.
Indeed. Thanks for that reminder. Slavery is still prevalent in Sudan and a number of other countries in the Sahel belt. And human trafficking and various types of forced labour (which often, as you say, includes sexual abuse) are also a form of slavery.
223John5918
Pope Francis inherited box of documents from predecessor relating to scandals (Guardian)
Pope Francis has said he inherited a “large white box” full of documents related to various scandals faced by the Catholic Church when he took over from his predecessor. The pontiff makes the revelation in his much-anticipated autobiography, Spera (Hope), which is published on Tuesday... Shortly after his election as pope, he recalls in his book, he visited Benedict at Castel Gandolfo, the papal summer residence south of Rome. “He gave me a large white box,” Francis writes. “‘Everything is in here’, he told me. ‘Documents relating to the most difficult and painful situations. Cases of abuse, corruption, dark dealings, wrongdoings.’” Benedict then told him: “I have arrived this far, taken these actions, removed these people. Now it’s your turn.” In Hope, Pope Francis says: “I have continued along his path”...
224John5918
Pope Francis Calls for Global Commitment to Eradicate Child Labor and Exploitation (ACI Africa)
Pope Francis on Wednesday called for a global commitment to eradicate child labor, saying injustices committed against “the invisible little ones” are a gross violation against God’s commandments. The Holy Father told groups of pilgrims attending his Jan. 15 general audience that they should be aware that millions of children — “the most beloved of the Father” — are trafficked for organ harvesting, to become child brides, or are forced to work as slaves, drug dealers, prostitutes, and for the porn industry. “This is very bitter in our societies,” he told pilgrims gathered inside the Vatican’s Paul VI Audience Hall. “Unfortunately, there are many ways in which children are abused and mistreated.” “Child abuse, of whatever nature, is a despicable and heinous act,” he continued. “It is not simply a blight on society. No, it is a crime!”... “Widespread poverty, the shortage of social support tools for families, the increased marginality in recent years along with unemployment and job insecurity are factors that burden the youngest with the highest price to pay,” he lamented on Wednesday. To eliminate the reality of forced child labor, the pope said it is “necessary to awaken the consciences” of individuals, institutions, and nations to work in solidarity to protect vulnerable boys and girls. “When we purchase products that involve child labor — how can we eat and dress, knowing that behind that food and those garments there are exploited children who work instead of going to school?” the Holy Father asked...
225John5918
Catholic Bishops in Malawi Review Child and Vulnerable Adults Safeguarding Policy to Protect Minors from Abuse (ACI Africa)
The Episcopal Conference of Malawi (ECM) has initiated a review of its Child and Vulnerable Adults Safeguarding Policy to strengthen measures aimed at protecting minors and vulnerable adults from abuse in the Southern African nation... “The Church in Malawi carries this responsibility with great care and dedication. Let us all work together to build a culture of safeguarding that permeates every corner of our society,” Bishop Peter Adrian Chifukwa said... “With God’s guidance, may we create safe and nurturing environments for all, especially for the most vulnerable among us.” Bishop Chifukwa encouraged safeguarding officers and stakeholders to educate the faithful on safeguarding issues. He noted that safeguarding should not be limited to policies and institutions but should become a cultural norm, beginning in households and extending to communities... Fr. Israel Madziakaphwa, provided participants with orientation on Vos Estis Lux Mundi (You Are the Light of the World), a document that urges Bishops to address abuse cases transparently. Fr. Madziakaphwa highlighted the importance of understanding the document in addressing abuse within the Church. “The Church has zero tolerance for anything contrary to the respect of minors and vulnerable people. It is totally against issues of sexual abuse, harassment, and any form of act contrary to the ethics of humanity. The document, therefore, guides investigation procedures, especially on sexual abuse about Clerics and the Religious,” he said. He further stated that the safeguarding policy under review should include decentralized procedures for addressing abuse by individuals working in Catholic institutions and parishes. He stressed the importance of ensuring the policy is comprehensive enough to cover lay faithful involved in abuse. “It is important for the officers and all stakeholders to know and understand the document because sexual abuse can involve the lay faithful as well,” Fr. Madziakaphwa said...
226John5918
Pope dissolves Peru-based Catholic movement after ‘sadistic abuses’ (Guardian)
Pope Francis has taken the remarkable step of dissolving a Peruvian-based Catholic movement, the Sodalitium of Christian Life (SCV), after years of attempts at reform and a Vatican investigation. The investigation uncovered sexual abuses by its founder, financial mismanagement by its leaders and spiritual abuses by its top members... The SCV dissolution, which had been rumoured, marks an end to what has amounted to a slow death of the movement, which was founded in 1971. It was one of several Catholic societies born as a conservative reaction to the left-leaning liberation theology movement that swept through Latin America... In 2017, a report commissioned by the group’s leadership determined that {the group's founder} Figari subjected his recruits to humiliating sexual and psychological abuse...
227John5918
St. Bakhita Feast Day Stirs Renewed Fight against Human Trafficking in over 30 African Countries (ACI Africa)
Over 30 African countries have confirmed their participation in the February 8 campaign to end human trafficking, which the Pan-African Catholic Theology and Pastoral Network (PACTPAN) has organized. February 8, the Feast Day of St. Josephine Bakhita, a former slave of Sudanese descent and Patron Saint of victims of human trafficking, is designated for prayer and awareness against the menace of human trafficking. This year, over 30 countries in Africa are to celebrate Holy Mass in what is probably one of the biggest campaigns PACTPAN theologians have organized to create awareness against human trafficking. Peaceful marches have also been organized in the countries that have confirmed their participation in the campaign to undertaken under the theme, “Restoring Hope in Africa: A Jubilee Call to End Human Trafficking”. Uganda’s Vice President, Jessica Rose Epel Alupo, is set to deliver a keynote address on the theme of the campaign. In the whole of East Africa in particular, Uganda has been said to be the most hospitable to refugees, especially from South Sudan; some of them are victims of human trafficking...
229John5918
>228 brone: Ya can't make this stuff up
Well ya can, and people do, or at least they take half-truths, embroider them a bit with innuendo, add two and two and make five. If you would give us a link to some of this information it would be easier to check whether or not it is made up stuff.
Well ya can, and people do, or at least they take half-truths, embroider them a bit with innuendo, add two and two and make five. If you would give us a link to some of this information it would be easier to check whether or not it is made up stuff.
231John5918
>230 brone:
Well, you don't give a link for any of those statistics. You don't give dates, eg 6,770 clergy over what time period? A week, a year, ten years, fifty years? USD 5 billion has been doled out over what period as settlement for abuse victims going back over what period of time?
But basically, what is your point? Everybody knows that clergy sexual abuse goes back at least for most of the last century, probably for ever. Everybody knows that it was generally covered up until the Second Vatican Council began to encourage more openness and transparency in the Church, and these crimes began to be reported and acted upon. Everybody knows that it still took a long time to process some of them, that some bishops were found guilty of egregious cover ups, and that on a small scale some cover ups continued. Meanwhile thousands of cases have been dealt with both by the Church and civil law enforcement authorities, and the Church has implemented robust safeguarding measures to try to reduce the opportunities for sexual abuse and to prevent it from being covered up. These have largely been successful - the incidence of both new sexual assault and new cover ups is now a fraction of what it used to be before Vatican II - but not 100%, as nobody will ever manage to stop all crime. Meanwhile also the Church has (often reluctantly) been forced to begin paying out settlements to many of the victims, and this has indeed bankrupted some dioceses. Would you rather we didn't compensate victims? It took 766 days to issue a report about a complex and sensitive subject? That hardly surprises me, and sounds as if it was done diligently with regard to due process. How long did it take before the investigations into Cardinal George Pell were completed and he was exonerated? The pope knew about the allegations before the report was issued? Well, that's hardly surprising, as it was probably only after he became aware of it that the inquiry was instigated. 11 bishops have resigned? Bishops resign all the time for all sorts of reasons. I know some personally. Cardinal McCarrick, incidentally, was not a "boomer bishop" as he was born in 1930, whereas "boomers" are generally held to be born between 1946 and 1964. Indeed his generation, not the "boomers", is the generation during which much of the sexual abuse took place and wasn't addressed until recently. And "the Joe Tobin crowd of USSCBoomer bishops" is a meaningless statement.
So I ask again: what actually is your point?
Well, you don't give a link for any of those statistics. You don't give dates, eg 6,770 clergy over what time period? A week, a year, ten years, fifty years? USD 5 billion has been doled out over what period as settlement for abuse victims going back over what period of time?
But basically, what is your point? Everybody knows that clergy sexual abuse goes back at least for most of the last century, probably for ever. Everybody knows that it was generally covered up until the Second Vatican Council began to encourage more openness and transparency in the Church, and these crimes began to be reported and acted upon. Everybody knows that it still took a long time to process some of them, that some bishops were found guilty of egregious cover ups, and that on a small scale some cover ups continued. Meanwhile thousands of cases have been dealt with both by the Church and civil law enforcement authorities, and the Church has implemented robust safeguarding measures to try to reduce the opportunities for sexual abuse and to prevent it from being covered up. These have largely been successful - the incidence of both new sexual assault and new cover ups is now a fraction of what it used to be before Vatican II - but not 100%, as nobody will ever manage to stop all crime. Meanwhile also the Church has (often reluctantly) been forced to begin paying out settlements to many of the victims, and this has indeed bankrupted some dioceses. Would you rather we didn't compensate victims? It took 766 days to issue a report about a complex and sensitive subject? That hardly surprises me, and sounds as if it was done diligently with regard to due process. How long did it take before the investigations into Cardinal George Pell were completed and he was exonerated? The pope knew about the allegations before the report was issued? Well, that's hardly surprising, as it was probably only after he became aware of it that the inquiry was instigated. 11 bishops have resigned? Bishops resign all the time for all sorts of reasons. I know some personally. Cardinal McCarrick, incidentally, was not a "boomer bishop" as he was born in 1930, whereas "boomers" are generally held to be born between 1946 and 1964. Indeed his generation, not the "boomers", is the generation during which much of the sexual abuse took place and wasn't addressed until recently. And "the Joe Tobin crowd of USSCBoomer bishops" is a meaningless statement.
So I ask again: what actually is your point?
233John5918
>232 brone:
I find it difficult to discern what your point is amongst all the red herrings, and once again I wish you could express your opinions charitably without descending into disparaging and denigrating irrelevancies - fat cat bishops, cultural Marxism, wokism, Soviet communism, transgender propaganda, etc.
I have no real experience or knowledge of transgender issues, so I hesitate to offer an opinion. Statistically I understand that well under 1% of the population identifies as such, so it is hardly something which is going to rock the existing order. I think I only know of one case personally, a friend of a distant friend. I do know how much the young person themself and their parents suffered, and what a long painful journey it was for them. Who am I to judge? Anybody who is in pain deserves our love and our support, and at the very least an examination of any systemic issues which may be contributing to their hardship. And people's pain and suffering should never be co-opted to serve extremist political ideologies, as it has been by the far right in the USA. Love thy neighbour, rather than belittling them to bolster a political ideology.
As for trains, I'm very pleased to hear that you love them, as I do. I also try to love people as well as trains. Loving people is far more challenging!
I find it difficult to discern what your point is amongst all the red herrings, and once again I wish you could express your opinions charitably without descending into disparaging and denigrating irrelevancies - fat cat bishops, cultural Marxism, wokism, Soviet communism, transgender propaganda, etc.
I have no real experience or knowledge of transgender issues, so I hesitate to offer an opinion. Statistically I understand that well under 1% of the population identifies as such, so it is hardly something which is going to rock the existing order. I think I only know of one case personally, a friend of a distant friend. I do know how much the young person themself and their parents suffered, and what a long painful journey it was for them. Who am I to judge? Anybody who is in pain deserves our love and our support, and at the very least an examination of any systemic issues which may be contributing to their hardship. And people's pain and suffering should never be co-opted to serve extremist political ideologies, as it has been by the far right in the USA. Love thy neighbour, rather than belittling them to bolster a political ideology.
As for trains, I'm very pleased to hear that you love them, as I do. I also try to love people as well as trains. Loving people is far more challenging!
234bnielsen
>233 John5918: "I also try to love people as well as trains. Loving people is far more challenging!" LOL!
235John5918
Diocese given clean bill of health over safeguarding (The Tablet)
This news of itself is not of any great global signficance; a single diocese which had a bad reputation for safeguarding has turned itself around and is doing well now. But in an atmosphere of continual carping about the current state of safeguarding in the Catholic Church, without in any way minimising the appalling crimes which were committed and covered up in the past, and without denying that there are still unresolved cases, it is important to recognise the huge improvements which have and still are taking place in the Church as a whole. The Diocese of Hexham and Newcastle is not atypical. It's now a much safer Church than it was thirty, sixty or a hundred years ago, with a very different culture in regard to safeguarding.
Hexham and Newcastle diocese, once blighted by a serious scandal over its safeguarding mistakes and the role of its former bishop, has been given a clean bill of health by the Catholic Church’s safeguarding body. The Catholic Safeguarding Standards Agency (CSSA) has announced that its inspectors found that the diocese has achieved good practice in all eight of the safeguarding standards it has set. And it has praised the diocese for particular improvements in Church leadership, governance, ministry, culture and the care of survivors of abuse...
This news of itself is not of any great global signficance; a single diocese which had a bad reputation for safeguarding has turned itself around and is doing well now. But in an atmosphere of continual carping about the current state of safeguarding in the Catholic Church, without in any way minimising the appalling crimes which were committed and covered up in the past, and without denying that there are still unresolved cases, it is important to recognise the huge improvements which have and still are taking place in the Church as a whole. The Diocese of Hexham and Newcastle is not atypical. It's now a much safer Church than it was thirty, sixty or a hundred years ago, with a very different culture in regard to safeguarding.
238John5918
In this and other threads Cardinal Robert McElroy is frequently sniped at for his (alleged mis-)handling of sexual abuse cases. This article provides a fuller picture of the reality than is usually presented by his detractors:
Inside an episode some conservatives use to bash Cardinal McElroy, and why they're wrong (NCR)
Inside an episode some conservatives use to bash Cardinal McElroy, and why they're wrong (NCR)
240John5918
>239 brone: who certainly knew about this priest
Everybody "certainly knew about" Cardinal George Pell, and he was sent to prison. Except that on appeal, it turned out that what they "certainly knew" was false, and he was acquitted. Your own hero, Archbishop Fulton Sheen, has been investigated over covering up sexual abuse, but as far as I know no action has been taken, presumably because the claims that people "certainly knew" have not been verified. Would you rather have a thorough (and thus lengthy) investigation which exonerates him, or would you prefer than we rely on hearsay and innuendo and keep on suspecting him? The article I posted about McElroy seeks to demonstrate how difficult it is to investigate and judge these cases, and to know exactly what he knew (as opposed to what was floating around as gossip, hearsay, unverified allegations, and accusations which those who made them were not prepared to stand by).
Nobody denies that there have been miscarriages of justice, in both directions, over the years, which is precisely why the Church has instituted robust safeguarding reforms, but its not helpful to victims to continue with innuendo and half-truths. I don't know the case of Rachel Mastrogiacono, but if what you say is true, then she has been treated appallingly. But the Church since Vatican II has improved its safeguarding record, and her case is now the exception rather than the rule. Isn't that something to be grateful about? As for Rupnik, he is being investigated. Like you, I don't know why it is taking so long, but then neither you nor I have access to all the facts.
Everybody "certainly knew about" Cardinal George Pell, and he was sent to prison. Except that on appeal, it turned out that what they "certainly knew" was false, and he was acquitted. Your own hero, Archbishop Fulton Sheen, has been investigated over covering up sexual abuse, but as far as I know no action has been taken, presumably because the claims that people "certainly knew" have not been verified. Would you rather have a thorough (and thus lengthy) investigation which exonerates him, or would you prefer than we rely on hearsay and innuendo and keep on suspecting him? The article I posted about McElroy seeks to demonstrate how difficult it is to investigate and judge these cases, and to know exactly what he knew (as opposed to what was floating around as gossip, hearsay, unverified allegations, and accusations which those who made them were not prepared to stand by).
Nobody denies that there have been miscarriages of justice, in both directions, over the years, which is precisely why the Church has instituted robust safeguarding reforms, but its not helpful to victims to continue with innuendo and half-truths. I don't know the case of Rachel Mastrogiacono, but if what you say is true, then she has been treated appallingly. But the Church since Vatican II has improved its safeguarding record, and her case is now the exception rather than the rule. Isn't that something to be grateful about? As for Rupnik, he is being investigated. Like you, I don't know why it is taking so long, but then neither you nor I have access to all the facts.
241John5918
Ex-Trump spiritual adviser surrenders on child sexual abuse charges (Guardian)
A former pastor of a Texas megachurch – and ex-Donald Trump spiritual adviser – surrendered to Oklahoma authorities on Monday on charges of child sexual abuse...
243John5918
>242 brone:
So you are actually speaking about only two sexual abuse cases, one of which (Rupnik) is still under investigation. Whether or not a Satanic Black Mass is being held in the Kansas State Capitol building has nothing to do with the horrible rape and abuse of Rachel Mastrogiacomo, which I understand took place in San Diego.
So you are actually speaking about only two sexual abuse cases, one of which (Rupnik) is still under investigation. Whether or not a Satanic Black Mass is being held in the Kansas State Capitol building has nothing to do with the horrible rape and abuse of Rachel Mastrogiacomo, which I understand took place in San Diego.
245John5918
>244 brone:
My apologies. I was just trying to clarify that you are only talking about two cases of sexual abuse, and pointing out that the Black Mass in Kansas to which you referred is completely unconnected to those cases. If I've misunderstood or misrepresented you, please correct me.
My apologies. I was just trying to clarify that you are only talking about two cases of sexual abuse, and pointing out that the Black Mass in Kansas to which you referred is completely unconnected to those cases. If I've misunderstood or misrepresented you, please correct me.
246John5918
Justin Welby was too ‘overwhelmed’ by scale of abuse in C of E to take action (Guardian)
Justin Welby, the former archbishop of Canterbury, has said his failure to take effective action over a serial sadistic abuser was because he was “overwhelmed” by the scale of the abuse crisis in the Church of England. In his first interview since resigning last November, Welby said: “Every day more cases were coming across the desk that had been in the past, hadn’t been dealt with adequately, and this was just, it was another case. It was an absolutely overwhelming few weeks.” This was not an excuse, but a reason for his failures, he told the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg. “The reality is I got it wrong. As archbishop there are no excuses.” He also said there was a “rush to judgment” of public leaders...
247John5918
Jesuits offer ‘reparation’ to Rupnik victims awaiting Vatican verdict (Tablet)
The Bishop of Tarbes and Lourdes said mosaics by Marko Rupnik on the doors of the Rosary Basilica would be covered by aluminium sheets. The Society of Jesus offered “reparation” to around 20 women who claim they were abused sexually, psychologically and spiritually by the former Jesuit Marko Rupnik. Fr Johan Verschueren SJ, the major superior of the Jesuits’ international houses in Rome, wrote private letters to each woman asking “to know what they would need now, and how we can meet that need”... Initially, the Vatican refused to prosecute historic abuse claims against Rupnik because the women were not minors at the time of the abuse, meaning they were still subject to the statute of limitations. Pope Francis subsequently waived this to enable the Vatican to open a canonical trial against Rupnik...
249John5918
Christian missionary group accused of public shaming and rituals to ‘cure’ sexual sin (Guardian)
And a more positive development in Africa:
Kenyan Catholic Diocese Hopes to Instil Child Safeguarding Culture among Highly Traditional, Vastly Muslim Communities (ACI Africa)
The world’s biggest youth Christian missionary organisation is facing allegations of spiritual abuse and controlling behaviour from young people who say they were left “traumatised”. An Observer investigation has revealed evidence of safeguarding failings within Youth With a Mission (YWAM), a global movement that trains young Christians to spread the gospel. A spokesperson for YWAM said the organisation was “heartbroken” by the claims and was “deeply committed to the safety and wellbeing” of everyone in its care. The allegations span two decades and include claims that young missionaries were publicly shamed, subjected to rituals to “cure” their homosexuality, and told that leaving was against God’s will...
And a more positive development in Africa:
Kenyan Catholic Diocese Hopes to Instil Child Safeguarding Culture among Highly Traditional, Vastly Muslim Communities (ACI Africa)
Protecting children and vulnerable adults among the communities that the Catholic Diocese of Garissa in Kenya serve has always been a difficult task owing to the strong traditions of the communities that have “their own way” of handling cases of abuse. According to Fr. Fredrick Namasaka, a Priest ministering in Garissa Diocese, who participated in the just-ended child safeguarding training in the Kenyan Episcopal See, communities under the pastoral care of the Diocese are “very traditional in the way they handle their conflicts”, and these include cases of abuse. Fr. Namasaka said that child abuse among the communities he serves is brought to the fore by the many arranged marriages of minors, who are denied the opportunity to go to school... Sr. Jacinta Ondeng, identified the challenge of harmonizing Church laws, civil laws, and the Islamic way of solving issues, especially those touching on proactive measures to protect minors and vulnerable adults... “We are however insisting that in Catholic institutions here, and in the Church, safeguarding measures must be adhered to”... According to Sr. Ondeng, the training focused on the different types of abuses, including physical, sexual, emotions, neglect, and spiritual abuse among others... The main focus of the Safeguarding initiative is prevention of abuse. “We help the Priests and Sisters identify risk factors to abuse in our institutions and in the Church, as well as in the families”... “Interreligious dialogue has always worked in these places. It is possible to bring people of other faiths on board on this matter of child safeguarding,” Fr. Namasaka said, and added, “All we need is to invite Muslim leaders and traditional leaders in our safeguarding training and they will spread the information to others”... “There are many forms of abuse that we never knew existed. All we know is about physical abuse and sexual abuse. But there is a wide range of abuses that we never knew were real abuses. Neglect is also abuse. There is also spiritual abuse. This training has brought that out very well”...
250John5918
I think we've touched on human trafficking in this or a parallel thread?
Faith organizations fight back as traffickers disguise themselves as missionaries (Vatican News)
Faith organizations fight back as traffickers disguise themselves as missionaries (Vatican News)
Faith-based organizations are working to combat one of human traffickers' latest strategies: using religious disguise to evade being detected across Southeast Asia... It often involves, the agency noted, traffickers disguising victims as Christian "pilgrims" or "missionaries" to bypass airport checks and immigration controls. Several such cases, Fides revealed, were uncovered by Filipino and Thai authorities. One case involved three women falsely claiming to be Catholic missionaries en route to Thailand. One of those women, investigations revealed, was part of a trafficking ring, luring others with fake job offers and exploiting them...
251John5918
Ireland’s mother-and-baby homes are a stain on the Catholic church – but this latest refusal to atone is a new low (Guardian)
There are some stories so horrifying that their details embed themselves in your flesh and haunt you for the rest of your days. The suffering of the women and babies – an estimated 170,000 of them – who were incarcerated and abused in the Magdalene laundries and mother-and-baby homes that housed “fallen women” is one such story. It is a scandal that is difficult to read about without experiencing an overwhelming feeling of disgust, from the testimonies of abuse and forced adoption, to the mass grave at the former St Mary’s mother-and-baby home near Tuam, County Galway, which contained 796 bodies of babies and children. The nuns put many of them in a septic tank. There were no burial records. The efforts of survivors, campaigners and historians to bring these stories to light in the face of obstruction and indifference has been the work of decades. The Irish government made a formal apology in 2021 after a judicial commission report. Yet this story, and the human misery it has caused, is not over: the last home closed in 1996. There are living survivors, and people who are descended from the victims. The exhumation of the children’s remains, so that they can be identified if possible and given a proper burial, is continuing. And then there is the question of redress... This week, it was reported that, of the eight religious organisations linked to Ireland’s mother-and-baby homes, only two have offered to contribute to a survivor redress scheme... The Sisters of Bon Secours... {and} the Daughters of Charity of St Vincent de Paul... A third religious body – the Sisters of St John of God – declined to contribute, saying there was “no legal or moral” basis to do so as there was “no evidence that our sisters there acted in any untoward manner”, but offered a donation to survivors. The other five – the Congregation of Our Lady of Charity of the Good Shepherd, the Congregation of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary, the Congregation of the Sisters of Mercy, the Legion of Mary and the (Anglican) Church of Ireland – made no offer. They gave various reasons – or excuses, depending on your viewpoint...
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Priest arrested in Derry on suspicion of attempted sexual communication with child (ITV)
A priest has been arrested in Londonderry on suspicion of attempted sexual communication with a child...
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French PM stunned as daughter reveals she was abused at scandal-hit school (BBC)
French Prime Minister François Bayrou says his eldest daughter's revelation that she was among children who were abused at a Roman Catholic school "stabs him to the heart as a father". Hélène Perlant, who is now 53, alleges that a priest at Notre-Dame de Bétharram beat her at a summer camp when she was 14... Explaining why she had not talked about the experience, she said: "Bétharram was organised like a sect or a totalitarian regime exercising psychological pressure on pupils and teachers, so they stayed silent"... A number of allegations of abuse committed by priests and staff surfaced in the 1990s... allegations of sexual violence, including rape by two priests...
254John5918
Zambian Catholic Nun Calls for Urgent Reform in Addressing Sexual Abuse against Women Religious in Africa (ACI Africa)
There is need for Catholic Church leaders in Africa to address the challenge of sexual abuse against women Religious wherever and whenever it happens, fostering the values of justice, transparency, and healing, a Zambian Catholic Nun has said... Sr. Linah Siabana underscored the Church’s moral responsibility to uphold the safety and rights of all people, and cautioned against institutional silence. “Sexual abuse represents a profound and hallowing failure to protect the most vulnerable members of our communities”...
255John5918
Seminarians Urged to Create Safe Spaces to Strengthen Safeguarding (AMECEA)
The Pastoral Coordinator of the Association of Member Episcopal Conferences in Eastern Africa (AMECEA) region has called on seminarians to be active agents in creating safe and secure spaces, particularly for children and vulnerable adults, to help strengthen safeguarding and prevent child abuse in the Church and society... “Safeguarding is not limited to responding to incidents of abuse but involves educating communities, establishing clear policies, and collaborating with civil authorities when necessary... Safeguarding is a deeply spiritual and pastoral responsibility that echoes the Gospel message in our Christian mission; preventing abuse, protecting human dignity, and nurturing the well-being of every individual, especially the most vulnerable.” Fr. Rutaihwa quoted Proverbs 31:8, “Speak out on behalf of the voiceless and for the rights of all who are vulnerable,” to emphasize that the future priests must be the voice of protection and justice...
256John5918
Researchers publish names of priests, religious who served in Canadian residential schools (CNA)
Canadian researchers and advocates have published a list of more than 100 priests and religious workers who served in the country’s controversial Indigenous “residential schools” that operated there for more than a century... Father Ken Thorson, the provincial of OMI Lacombe Canada, said in the press release that the Oblates were “deeply grateful” for the effort “to memorialize the experiences of residential school survivors.” “The eventual release of this research and the initial list of Oblate members who worked in the schools marks a meaningful step forward,” the priest said...
258John5918
Colombian court orders Church to publish names of alleged abusers (Tablet)
Colombia’s Constitutional Court ruled that the Catholic Church must release information about priests accused of sexual abuse. The ruling was a victory for two journalists, Juan Pablo Barrientos and Miguel Ángel Estupiñán, resolving a dispute that began in 2020 when the Archdiocese of Medellín refused to release information to Barrientos about 105 priests. The Church had argued that the information was covered by the canon law rule of “the pontifical secret”, or confidentiality. The court ruled that this was less important than the right of journalists to investigate, “especially as regards matters of particular relevance to society”...
259John5918
Cardinal O’Malley on abuse: Church puts victims and their families first (Vatican News)
In this interview with Vatican News, Cardinal Seán O’Malley talks about the work of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors; raising awareness in the Church about clerical abuse; and the Church’s priorities, especially the need to put victims and their families first...
260John5918
Vatican News removes Rupnik art from website (CNA)
Could this be a sign that the long-running investigation into allegations against Rupnik are drawing towards a conclusion?
The Vatican on Monday removed artwork by former Jesuit Father Marko Ivan Rupnik from its official websites. Digital images of the Slovenian priest’s sacred art, which were frequently used by Vatican News to illustrate articles of the Church’s liturgical feast days, are no longer found on the digital news service... Rupnik, who was expelled by the Society of Jesus in June 2023 for his “stubborn refusal to observe the vow of obedience,” is accused by about two dozen women, mostly former nuns, of spiritual, psychological, and sexual abuse they allege has occurred over the past three decades. The recent changes to the Vatican News and the Dicastery for Communication websites came soon after Pope Leo XIV met with members of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors... Several Church leaders and Catholic groups around the world have increasingly called for the removal of sacred art created by the former Jesuit. On March 31, the Shrine of Our Lady of Lourdes in France announced its decision to cover Rupnik mosaics found at the entrances to the Basilica of Our Lady of the Rosary.
Could this be a sign that the long-running investigation into allegations against Rupnik are drawing towards a conclusion?
261timspalding
>260 John5918:
I think it's because people online are consistently upset about it. I'm certainly glad they're doing it.
I think it's because people online are consistently upset about it. I'm certainly glad they're doing it.
262John5918
Pope Leo XIV and the children conditioned by silence (Tablet)
It's good to see that the plight of children of Catholic priests is gradually emerging from the cover-ups and silence.
Bishop Robert Prevost, now Pope Leo XIV, addressing Santo Toribio de Mogrovejo Catholic University during the opening ceremony of the 2016 academic year, confirmed – when speaking about those “who wish to walk the path proposed by the Church” – that “we do not want to lose our own identity; we want to fully realise it.” He spoke of “a true integral synthesis {…} {admonishing} coercion or irrational imposition” to fully realise identity. Prevost was not talking about children of priests, nor anything close to the topic, directly or indirectly; however, the analogy stands. What stops one’s identity from being fully realised? The answer is coercive control, a crime in most developed states. The knee jerk preference for secrecy fosters prolonged silence, thus, free will is removed and psychological harm germinates, resulting in an agoraphobic psyche within the mind of the child of the ordained, where the child is afraid to step outside unnatural boundaries imposed, designed to protect adults and institution, for it is all they have ever known. Yet, the instinct, as with all human beings, is that such boundaries are unnatural...
It's good to see that the plight of children of Catholic priests is gradually emerging from the cover-ups and silence.
263John5918
Pope names French bishop Thibault Verny as new president of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors (Vatican News)
Pope Leo appoints Thibault Verny, Archbishop of Chambéry and Bishop of Maurienne and Tarentaise to succeed Cardinal Seán Patrick O’Malley as the president of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors. In France, Archbishop Verny was responsible for the fight against child abuse within the Episcopal Conference...
264John5918
Auxiliary Vicar of Opus Dei Charged With Human Trafficking and Labor Exploitation (National Catholic Register)
The Argentine justice system has added the auxiliary vicar of Opus Dei, the organization’s second in command, Monsignor Mariano Fazio, as a defendant in the case involving the alleged human trafficking and the reduction to servitude of 43 women in Argentina. The case, which was formally filed in 2024 but had been reported in the media several years earlier, accuses Opus Dei authorities of allegedly recruiting 43 women while they were still minors and subjecting them to a regime of semi-slavery in their residences. Until now, the defendants were four priests who served as authorities at different times between 1991 and 2015: Carlos Nannei, Patricio Olmos, and Víctor Urrestarazu, former vicars of Opus Dei in Argentina, and the former director of the women’s branch in the country, Gabriel Dondo. The case now includes another defendant: Msgr. Fazio, currently auxiliary vicar of the Prelature of the Holy Cross, the second-highest authority in Opus Dei worldwide...
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Safeguarding remains a top priority with new appointment, US cardinal says (NCR)
Pope Leo XIV's appointment of the new president of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors shows that safeguarding remains a top priority, its former president said. "Our Holy Father Pope Leo XIV has affirmed the continued priority of the commission's work for the universal church in his thoughtful appointment" of Archbishop Thibault Verny of Chambéry, France, as the new president of the commission, said Cardinal Seán O’Malley. "The Holy Father's words and deeds in these early months of his pontificate assure the world that the church will not grow complacent in her efforts to as best possible ensure the protection of children, vulnerable adults, and all people in our communities," he said in a written statement released July 5, the day the Vatican announced the new appointment... "In addition to important contributions to the work of the commission, the archbishop has years of in-depth experience working with law enforcement, other civil authorities, and church leadership to ensure accountability for the serious failures of the church in France," where he served as auxiliary bishop of Paris before joining the commission, O'Malley wrote. "He has been at the forefront in seeking healing and reconciliation with survivors," the cardinal said, and he "played an important role in the development and implementation of substantive policies and procedures, with cultural specificity, for the prevention of any recurrence of abuse"...
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How hundreds of Irish babies came to be buried in a secret mass grave (BBC)
No burial records. No headstones. No memorials. Nothing until 2014, when an amateur historian uncovered evidence of a mass grave, potentially in a former sewage tank, believed to contain hundreds of babies in Tuam, County Galway, in the west of Ireland. Now, investigators have moved their diggers onto the nondescript patch of grass next to a children's playground on a housing estate in the town. An excavation, expected to last two years, will begin on Monday. The area was once where St Mary's children's home stood, a church-run institution that housed thousands of women and children between 1925 and 1961...
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>268 brone:
As far as I know the late Pope Francis was very supportive of missionary endeavours, and the current pope is a missionary himself. I don't think either of them would make any sort of blanket condemnation over the evangelisation of indigenous people. They would, however, criticise abuses which took place during evanglisation efforts, just as you condemn abuses in >267 brone:. I don't know the context of your question about graves of indigenous people, but certainly in Ireland the graves have been found of the children mentioned in >266 John5918:.
As far as I know the late Pope Francis was very supportive of missionary endeavours, and the current pope is a missionary himself. I don't think either of them would make any sort of blanket condemnation over the evangelisation of indigenous people. They would, however, criticise abuses which took place during evanglisation efforts, just as you condemn abuses in >267 brone:. I don't know the context of your question about graves of indigenous people, but certainly in Ireland the graves have been found of the children mentioned in >266 John5918:.
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>269 John5918:
Why has it taken Ireland a decade to exhume the bodies of the 800 dead babies of Tuam? (Guardian)
Why has it taken Ireland a decade to exhume the bodies of the 800 dead babies of Tuam? (Guardian)
The mass exhumation is vindication for campaigners – but their battle for justice is far from over...
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AMECEA Leads Regional Training to Strengthen Child Safeguarding in the Church (AMECEA)
To strengthen the Catholic Church’s capacity to respond effectively to child abuse cases, the Association of Member Episcopal Conferences in Eastern Africa (AMECEA) has launched a regional Training of Trainers (ToT) programme on Investigations and Handling Reports of Child Abuse. The training, hosted at the Catholic Secretariat of Malawi from July 14–19, that brought together key safeguarding personnel from across the AMECEA region, including Bishops’ President of the Conferences, chairmen of the Seminary Commission and safeguarding officers, aimed to equip participants with practical tools and knowledge to address abuse cases with professionalism, compassion, and accountability. In his opening remarks, Fr. Florence Rutaihwa, AMECEA Pastoral Coordinator, emphasized that the training is more than a routine capacity-building exercise but rather a moral and spiritual imperative. “We must create safe and nurturing environments where children can grow in love, safety, and dignity,” the Tanzanian cleric said, adding that safeguarding is not only a technical task but also a gospel calling. He challenged participants to see themselves as agents of “love-inspired change” and to become catalysts for justice and transformation in their dioceses and communities. According to Fr. Rutaihwa, the training, which was a response to a call by bishops during the consultative meeting, addressed practical gaps in case management and reporting systems, acknowledging that while global child protection frameworks exist, there are still significant challenges related to accountability and service quality across the region. By focusing on the development of standardized case management guidelines and clear reporting procedures, AMECEA aims to ensure more coordinated and effective safeguarding responses. Fr. Rutaihwa highlighted the need for collaborative efforts, stating that: “Child protection is a shared responsibility among the Church, governments, civil society, and local communities. We cannot achieve peace and justice if our children are left behind.” The training also reflected on the evolving role of the Church in safeguarding vulnerable persons. It calls upon priests, religious, and lay faithful to promote human dignity actively and to confront injustice...
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Two cases which have recently come to light, in Poland and UK.
Bishop-elect steps down after report of ‘inappropriate behavior’ toward minor (Pillar)
Former Ampleforth College monk jailed for child abuse (North Yorkshire Police)
Statement Following the Trial of Fr James Callaghan (Ampleforth Abbey)
Bishop-elect steps down after report of ‘inappropriate behavior’ toward minor (Pillar)
A Polish priest who was named a bishop in July stood down before his episcopal ordination due to a report of past “inappropriate behavior toward a minor,” it was announced Saturday... Radom’s Bishop Marek Solarczyk shed light Aug. 9 on why Fr. Krzysztof Dukielski asked Pope Leo XIV to release him from his July 12 appointment as an auxiliary bishop of Radom... Solarczyk said he wished to clarify the circumstances of the resignation for the good of the Church and out of concern for the person involved. Solarczyk said it was only after the announcement of Dukielski’s appointment that the report emerged of past inappropriate behavior toward a minor. “In accordance with applicable canon law, upon receiving credible information, the proceedings prescribed by the norms were initiated without delay,” the bishop said. He noted that “appropriate preventive measures” had been imposed on Dukielski. “Further decisions in his case will be made in accordance with the relevant provisions of canon law,” he said. Solarczyk added: “I express my sincere sympathy to those affected by the priest’s inappropriate behavior. I assure you of my prayers and my readiness to offer them pastoral support.” “I also confirm my determination to fulfill all principles of justice and to build a Church community based on truth, responsibility, and respect for every human being”...
Former Ampleforth College monk jailed for child abuse (North Yorkshire Police)
A monk who sexually abused two boys at Ampleforth College has been jailed for seven years. Michael James Callaghan, 71, of Moortown, Leeds, also known as Father James, denied 12 counts of indecently assaulting the first victim, with four taking place when the boy was under 16, and one count of sexual assault on the second victim. But following a trial at Teesside Crown Court he was found guilty of all counts, and today, 19 June 2025, sentenced to seven years in prison. He will also be subject to a sexual harm prevention order indefinitely, which will forbid him from any contact with the victim and from having any unsupervised contact with any person under the age of 16. The offences took place at Ampleforth College, North Yorkshire, between 1994 and 2013...
Statement Following the Trial of Fr James Callaghan (Ampleforth Abbey)
The monastic community and Ampleforth Abbey Trust are extremely saddened and sorry for the hurt caused by Fr James Callaghan, today found guilty of charges relating to indecent assault dating back to a period between 1994-1997 and of sexual assault in 2013, and would like to unreservedly apologise to his victims, their families and the wider community. We acknowledge with shame the gravity of the abuse he inflicted upon his victims. Fr James is suspended from active ministry and is not a resident at Ampleforth Abbey. In accordance with the Church protocol concerning clerics who have been convicted, the Holy See will be petitioned for him to be dismissed from the priesthood and monastic vows. We are resolutely committed to ensuring the safety and welfare of all those who come to visit the Abbey site and come into contact with the monastic community and our lay staff. Learning from past mistakes we have, with the help of extensive external expertise and scrutiny, implemented robust safeguarding policies and practices. We continue to seek to ensure that the culture of safeguarding is embedded throughout the many activities of the Abbey and Trust. We welcome the fact that our safeguarding policies and decisions are monitored by external agencies. We offer a heartfelt apology to all those who have experienced abuse in the past by monks, staff or volunteers of Ampleforth Abbey...
274brone
James Dubson, the evagelical Christian psychologist, author and founder of Focus on the family has passed away, He advised five US presidents on family policy, most recently President Donald Trump. A leading light in the American conservative movement and a fighter of traditional family values. He defended the institution of marriage as between one woman and man for life, biblical sexual ethics and gender roles and was a great fighter against abortion. He met with JPII as the most prominent member of the Evangelical movemnt saying "when it comes to the family, there is far more agreement with the Catholic Church as thier view in regard to moral issues from abortion to prematial sex, safe sex ideology and homosexuality, I find more in common with Catholics than with some of my own brothers and sisters." A professor of pediatrics and author of 70 books a well-run race Mr. Dobson RIP.+JMJ+
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Catholic Archbishop in France Rescinds Appointment of Priest Convicted of Rape, Asks for Forgiveness (ACI Africa)
Archbishop Guy de Kirimel of Toulouse, France, has reversed his decision to appoint a priest convicted of rape as chancellor of the archdiocese and asked forgiveness of the victims of abuse, whom he had no intention of offending, according to a statement released Aug. 16. “In order not to cause division among bishops, and not to remain at a standoff between those for and against, I decided to reverse my decision; this has now been done, with the appointment of a new chancellor,” the archbishop said. The reversal of the appointment of Father Dominique Spina, a priest sentenced in 2006 to five years in prison for raping a 16-year-old boy in 1993, came after the French Bishops’ Conference asked the archbishop on Aug. 11 to “reconsider the decision.” The French prelates stated at the time that “an appointment of such importance, both canonically and symbolically, can only reopen wounds, arouse suspicions, and disconcert the people of God.” Speaking about sexual abuse perpetrated by members of the Catholic Church in France, the bishops noted that “we have learned to look at these events first from the point of view of the people who were their victims and who suffer the consequences for the rest of their lives”...
276MarthaJeanne
>275 John5918: Isn't it great that the other bishops had some sense?
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Clerical abuse damaged credibility and trust, says Archbishop (Tablet)
Clerical abuse has caused immense damage and trauma not only to the lives of victims and their families, but it has also broken the heart and spirit of many priests, the leader of the Irish Catholic Church has said... There are many times, he said, when priests feel their brokenness, woundedness and their need for God, especially when they learn that some of their brother priests have committed awful sins and crimes of abuse...
279John5918
Nigerian Church divided over nun’s claims of abuse by priests (Tablet)
Allegations that Catholic priests treat nuns as their “wives” caused controversy in Nigeria, with supporters of the accuser clashing with officials who said she had left the Church. In a social media post on 24 August, Sr Kinse Anastasia claimed Religious sisters face pressure for sex from priests, who treat them as “ornaments in habits”. She said that some priests openly say that “sisters are meant to be priests’ wives” and act as such. She also accused Church leaders of silencing nuns who complain of abuse and Religious superiors of misusing their authority, while also condemning those who compromise their vows because “it weakens the dignity of consecrated life”. “Religious sisters are not priests’ wives. We are not bedmates. We are women of God. The Church must do better because God is watching,” Sr Anastasia said. Her social media profile described her as a member of the Mother of Perpetual Help of the Archangel Sisters (MOPHAS), working at Veritas University in Abuja... Fr Michael Umoh, the director of social communications for the Catholic Secretariat of Nigeria, said the Church was considering her allegation. “The Church is aware of it but is yet to make its stand known on it. The Church is not closing its eyes to it but the veracity of her claim is not known yet... However, the greatest part of it is that the Church loves the Sister and is praying for her. That is the situation now”...
280MarthaJeanne
>279 John5918: Oh, please. If, as she claims, priests are openly saying “sisters are meant to be priests’ wives”, the higher ups cannot be unaware of it. At the very least, they should be making a strong statement that sisters are NOT meant to be priests’ wives. If they have not done so, then saying that they are praying for her is hypocrisy and further abuse. I have seen in another context how 'praying for someone' can be a very harmful form of abuse. In this context it looks like they are praying for her to shut up and get into bed with the next priest who wants it.
Again, whether or not the church authorities admit to knowing that this has been going on, the only correct response is a statement that priests should not be using nuns sexually, that it will be investigated, and strong measures taken against such priests. Then, if you want, it would be appropriate to offer prayer for the church as a whole to live up to its call to holiness, and for any and all who are being victimized.
Again, whether or not the church authorities admit to knowing that this has been going on, the only correct response is a statement that priests should not be using nuns sexually, that it will be investigated, and strong measures taken against such priests. Then, if you want, it would be appropriate to offer prayer for the church as a whole to live up to its call to holiness, and for any and all who are being victimized.
281John5918
>280 MarthaJeanne:
Indeed. But I suspect there is still a lot of denial and cover-ups as there was with child sexual abuse.
Indeed. But I suspect there is still a lot of denial and cover-ups as there was with child sexual abuse.
282MarthaJeanne
Leaders of a Mexican megachurch have been arrested for sex trafficking.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/leaders-mexican-megachurch-indicted-new-york-federal-s...
https://abcnews.go.com/US/leaders-mexican-megachurch-indicted-new-york-federal-s...
283John5918
Pope Leo XIV Expels Deacon from the Clerical State for Abuse of Minors (ACI Africa)
Italian permanent deacon Alessandro Frateschi, who was convicted of sexual offenses against minors, has been expelled from the clerical state directly by Pope Leo XIV. The Diocese of Latina-Terracina-Sezze-Priverno announced the news Sept. 16, stating that Frateschi was notified of the decree in prison, where he is currently serving a 12-year sentence. This is the first known case of canonical sanction for abuse during the new pope’s pontificate...
285John5918
Study finds gaps in psychological screening of priesthood candidates (CNA)
Wau Diocese to Develop Safeguarding Policy (AMECEA)
The overwhelming majority of bishops and vocation directors expressed satisfaction with formation programs, according to a study analyzing how seminaries and dioceses screen candidates for holy orders. However, the study found gaps in evaluations related to learning disabilities and assessing tendencies toward “activity or inclination towards sexual activity with a minor or other trait that might indicate the person could be a harm to minors”...
Wau Diocese to Develop Safeguarding Policy (AMECEA)
The Catholic Diocese of Wau has concluded a rigorous three-day training program focused on safeguarding, protection from sexual exploitation and abuse (PSEA), and policy development. Supported by Mozerio and implemented in collaboration with partner organizations, the training brought together heads of departments from across diocesan arms to enhance their capacity in child protection, transparency, and ethical governance. The participants, drawn from education, social services, health, pastoral care, and administrative units, gathered under the overarching goal of ensuring that the Diocese’s operations are anchored in principles of dignity, safety, and accountability. Over the course of the sessions, attendees were equipped with best practices, legal frameworks, reporting mechanisms, survivor-centered approaches, and strategies to draft inclusive diocesan policies...
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>286 brone: Could money be the reason?
Not unless hard evidence can be provided rather than loose innuendo.
Not unless hard evidence can be provided rather than loose innuendo.
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Protection of Minors: 'What victims want is to be listened to' (Vatican News)
Abuse survivors and activists meet Pope Leo: ‘We found listening and support' (Vatican News)
Maud de Boer-Buquicchio, a jurist in charge of the Second Annual Report on Church Policies and Procedures for Safeguarding of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors, highlights the main elements that emerged from the document released on Thursday...
Abuse survivors and activists meet Pope Leo: ‘We found listening and support' (Vatican News)
Pope Leo receives six members of ECA Global, an international human rights association that works for greater support and compensation for victims of abuse and calls for stronger commitment and cooperation from the Catholic Church. Participants describe the audience as “a historic and hope-filled step toward greater cooperation”...
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Pope Leo holds hours-long ‘profound and painful’ meeting with abuse survivors (CNN)
Pope Leo XIV spent almost three hours on Saturday with 15 victims of clerical sexual abuse from Belgium. The Holy See Press Office described the pope’s meeting with the survivors, each of whom was abused by a member of the clergy as a minor, as “profound and painful.” The office said the meeting took place “in a spirit of closeness, listening & dialogue”...
292John5918
In First-ever Training in Safeguarding, Religious Formators in Kenya Called to “sensitivity and vigilance” (ACI Africa)
Formators from Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life (ICLSAL) serving in Kenya have been urged to embrace “sensitivity and vigilance” in handling candidates under their care, following the first-ever training on safeguarding for Religious formators in the East African nation...
293John5918
>290 brone:
You make some interesting comments. While I reject your conflation of homosexuality and paedophilia, and I have no idea what a "Lavender Mafia" is, I agree with you about the pre-Vatican II philosophy of banding together and covering up in order to protect the institution, a version of "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" as you describe it. Fortunately Vatican II created a more open Church where that is no longer the dominant practice, although there have been a few pre-Vatican II hangovers such as the former Cardinal McCarrick. I also agree with you that there are many homosexual clergy, just as there have always been in both the pre- and post-Vatican II Church. What has changed is that there is now more openness about something which was hushed up in the past.
You make some interesting comments. While I reject your conflation of homosexuality and paedophilia, and I have no idea what a "Lavender Mafia" is, I agree with you about the pre-Vatican II philosophy of banding together and covering up in order to protect the institution, a version of "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" as you describe it. Fortunately Vatican II created a more open Church where that is no longer the dominant practice, although there have been a few pre-Vatican II hangovers such as the former Cardinal McCarrick. I also agree with you that there are many homosexual clergy, just as there have always been in both the pre- and post-Vatican II Church. What has changed is that there is now more openness about something which was hushed up in the past.
295John5918
Abuse remains a gaping wound in the Church (The Tablet)
I quote this at some length as I don't think it succumbs to short soundbite quotes, and I'm not sure whether it is behind a paywall.
In spite of the many inquiries and reports and the many new safeguarding policies, committees and initiatives, and in spite of the repeated insistence that ‘victims must come first’, sexual abuse in the Church remains misunderstood and church leaders remain confused about what they can or should do to respond to it... No matter how much money is spent, and how many experts are called in to examine the problem, it seems that no one can work out how to fix it... The strange truth is that after all this time, I find that many leaders in the Churches cannot effectively articulate what abuse is, nor do they know what it would mean to respond to it in a Christian way. In the absence of this understanding, church leaders tend to treat abuse as a civil wrong rather than a spiritual one, offering secular answers to religious questions. Perhaps this comes from a fear that if it were to be treated as a spiritual issue, the questions about power and privilege that follow would be too searching. This vacuum of theological diagnosis produces a confusion about what the Church can or should do to treat it. Managerialism and delay fill the gap, and this response re-abuses the victims... Even more important, there has been no deep listening to victims... “Abuse” is a vague and contested term. A typology of abuse usually sorts it according to the nature of the act: physical, sexual, emotional or psychological, and so on. There is a debate within the Church as to whether spiritual abuse should be included as a distinct category, or whether it is best defined as a subset of the others. One of the drawbacks of this way of thinking is that it constructs abuse as an event (or a procession of events) in which the emphasis is on the actions of the abuser, rather than on the impact on the victim. In Christian theology wounded relationships matter as much if not more than wounded bodies...
The theologian Miroslav Volf has questioned the appropriateness of the rigid separation between the categories of the “oppressor” and the “oppressed”, arguing that it can make true reconciliation more difficult. This, he recognises, is a challenge that must be heard with utmost sensitivity. While some people, and classes of people, are victims of abuse, and others are abusers, Christian theology recognises there is also a complex, more nuanced and less binary understanding of the realities of power and oppression. Every human relationship is an encounter between two or more wounded people, and each is capable of good and evil. Abuse occurs hen a broken person misuses their potency to harm another broken person. Repair is achieved not merely by repaying the debts, but by rebalancing both parties to a relationship of dignity and humility before each other and before God. In my experience many victims of church abuse understand this, and it partly accounts for their enduring longing for the Church to return to a place of humility and justice. Victims own their own brokenness, while the Church and its agents struggle to do so. The broken victim crying out for justice is often a theologian and a prophet whose voice the Church needs to hear...
I quote this at some length as I don't think it succumbs to short soundbite quotes, and I'm not sure whether it is behind a paywall.
296MarthaJeanne
I would suggest that all abuse includes an element of spiritual abuse. Of not recognizing that the other is an equal before God.
298John5918
NYC's incoming archbishop inherits dispute with insurer over clergy abuse claims (NCR)
New York Archbishop-designate Ronald Hicks, who will be installed in early February, will arrive in an archdiocese seeking to raise $300 million to compensate more than 1,000 survivors of clergy sexual abuse while negotiating a universal settlement deal. A settlement agreement could break years of legal gridlock involving the archdiocese and its longtime insurer Chubb, which has refused to cover abuse claims because, the company argues, the church is responsible for allowing misconduct to occur over several decades. "Our goal has always been ... to resolve expeditiously all meritorious claims, provide the maximum amount of compensation to the greatest number of victim-survivors and help them heal and move forward," Cardinal Timothy Dolan wrote in a public letter Dec. 8. The outgoing cardinal, who led New York Catholics for 16 years, noted that the archdiocese has reduced staff, cut its budget and sold its former Manhattan headquarters for a hefty sum to help meet its multimillion dollar goal. NCR previously reported that the archdiocese laid off 18 employees last November due to a "financial crunch." This month, the archdiocese sold the land under a luxury hotel on Madison Avenue for a reported $490 million. Some $200 million will be used for survivor compensation, while the remaining funds will help cover loans received by the archdiocese for previous settlements. While acknowledging that the church failed to protect minors from abuse, Dolan also faulted its insurers for "accepting millions in premiums from the archdiocese" and then declining to cover abuse cases...
299John5918
Clergy abuse survivors frustrated by New Orleans archdiocese’s protracted bankruptcy (Guardian)
Long-winded legal wrangling and recalcitrant Catholic church leadership thwarted hopes for timely settlement... Since 1 May 2020, when the New Orleans archdiocese claimed chapter 11 protection under federal bankruptcy law, the church has faced withering media coverage over lawsuits, many of which involve decades-old abuse by priests, brothers, lay workers and several nuns...
300MarthaJeanne
I doubt that the resulting bad publicity is likely to get more contributions.
302John5918
>301 brone:
You've mentioned the tragic case of Rachel Mastrogiacomo several times in this and/or parallel threads, although you never cite any sources. At least one source has been posted analysing how Cardinal McElroy's peripheral involvement in this case was far more nuanced than you suggest; I believe it was from the National Catholic Reporter, but I can't now remember in which thread it was posted.
Incidentally, do you have any evidence for your startling claim that he "is now covering up the abuses and abominations in Washington DC"? If so, you should report it to the appropriate authorities, including the police.
You've mentioned the tragic case of Rachel Mastrogiacomo several times in this and/or parallel threads, although you never cite any sources. At least one source has been posted analysing how Cardinal McElroy's peripheral involvement in this case was far more nuanced than you suggest; I believe it was from the National Catholic Reporter, but I can't now remember in which thread it was posted.
Incidentally, do you have any evidence for your startling claim that he "is now covering up the abuses and abominations in Washington DC"? If so, you should report it to the appropriate authorities, including the police.
This topic was continued by Church Sex Abuse Scandal.

