Karlstar Reads in '23

Happy New Year everyone! Thanks for joining me on my reading journey.

January reading

The Great Admirals: Command at Sea by Jack Sweetman
Provenance by Ann Leckie
The Lost Fleet: Boundless by Jack Campbell
The Lost Stars: Perilous Shield by Jack Campbell
Dies the Fire by S.M. Stirling
City of the Beast by Michael Moorcock (or Edward P. Bradbury) Paizo reprint

February reading
Baptism of Fire by Andrzej Sapkowski
All the Seas of the World by G.G. Kay
The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula LeGuin
Radio Free Albemuth by Philip Dick

I use a 1 to 10 rating system because I started rating books on the internet using a 10 point system and because I like the additional granularity. Here's my rating scale explained. Checking my LT books, the 8 ratings stop right around book 500, so I'm consistent there, but I only have about 70 books rated 9 stars or higher, so either I'm being too tough or there just aren't that many 9 or 10 star books. I would guess my most common rating is 6, I like most of what I read.

1 - So bad, I couldn't finish it. DO NOT READ!!!
2 - Could have finished, but didn't. Do not read. This one means I made a conscious choice not to finish, usually about halfway through the book. Something is seriously wrong here.
3 - Finished it, but had to force myself. Not recommended, unless it is part of a series you really need to finish.
4 - Finished it, but really didn't like it. Not recommended unless you really need something to read.
5 - Decent book, recommended if you have spare time and need something to read.
6 - Good book, I enjoyed it, and would recommend it.
7 - Good book, recommended for everyone. I may have read it more than once, and would consider buying the hardcover edition.
8 - Great book, I would put it in the Top 500 of all time. Read more than once, I probably have the hardcover.
9 - Great book, top 100 all time. Read more than once, if I don't have the hardcover edition, I want one!
10 - All-time great book, top 50 material. Read more than twice, I probably have more than one copy/edition.

My ratings also include the Slogging Through the Mud (STTM) rating/index. This goes back to one of Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion books where she spends WAY too much time actually describing how the army spent days slogging through the mud. If there is a lot of travel in the book and too much time describing the traveling, the STTM rating will be high.

>1 Karlstar: Hippo Gnu Ear!

I love your descriptions of what the rankings of 8 and 9 mean. But beware of loading up too much on the hardcovers. They suck up bookshelf space SO FAST. Glad you're here in the Pub and sharing your finds in 2023!!

Happy New Year and happy reading!

Happy new year and happy new thread!

Happy New Year and a great year of books.

Happy reading in 2023!

>4 hfglen: >6 Narilka: >7 haydninvienna: >8 majkia: >9 libraryperilous: Thank you and the same to you.

>5 jillmwo: Luckily there are very few 9's and 10's, but when they happen they are worth the hardcover! I am buying more e-books lately so they don't add up as fast as they used to.

Happy New Year and new thread! May all your reads be wonderful.

Wishing you joy, warmth and intellectual stimulation, not to mention lots of fun, in your reading this year.

Happy New Year.

Just saw the explanation of your STTM rating a few months after I finally found Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion books in my local used bookstore, I'll have to remember the mud when finally get to them on my reading list.

>13 mattries37315: Thanks! Hopefully you'll know the part I'm talking about when you get to it, but I think you will.

Happy New Year. Good luck with your reading thread.

>15 pgmcc: Thank you. Provenance is coming along and I'm 3/4 of the way through the Great Admirals book. I'm still off work, but after what happened in last night's Bills game, it is a somber day here, not sure I'm even up for reading.

>16 Karlstar: The first thing I looked for this morning was news on his condition. I am not even remotely a sports fan, but this is... Well. It transcends all fandom. I also looked for on update on Jeremy Renner's condition.

>16 Karlstar: I wasn't watching that game but heard about it this mornings news. It's shocking for someone so young to have a heart problem. I can't imagine how hard it was for his mom to have to see him collapse on the field.

>18 clamairy: >19 Darth-Heather: He's still listed in critical condition in the hospital, basically no update today so far. At least so far he's avoided the worst, but I'm concerned there will be permanent damage. I guess I should be encouraged by what happened with the soccer player last year in similar circumstances.

>20 Karlstar: I'm also hoping the fact it was cold while he wasn't breathing will help. I'm not sure if no update is a good sign...

>21 clamairy: That has us concerned as well. We're on multiple Bills groups and other social media so we'll hear as soon as there is news.

>22 Karlstar: Please post in here if you hear anything. Refreshing my Twitter feed is only increasing my anxiety.

The Buffalo Bills official update from 1 hour ago says he is still in critical condition in intensive care, no other update.

I was on the phone with a friend this morning and for the first ten minutes of the call, she was expressing her outrage at the way in which the matter was handled last night and moving forward. All we can do is hope for a positive outcome; his condition continues to be described as critical.

Jim, best wishes for a wonderful 2023, in reading and elsewhere. Thanks for the interest you took and the support you gave last year. I do believe you've had an effect in nudging me back in the direction of reading more F&SF.

>26 Jim53: Thanks Jim and the same to you.

No real news on Damar Hamlin, still in ICU, still on breathing support though the last report said they had backed down the oxygen level to 50%. This is too much like the time Trish spent in ICU. Hopefully that means the same thing, that they are just being cautious and taking it slow - but too much time on a ventilator is not great.

>27 Karlstar: On CNN Damar's uncle revealed that he had to be resuscitated a second time at the hospital. That didn't sound little good news.

I'm glad Trish made a full recovery.

Happy New Year!

I enjoyed Provenance and all of her works, but can't say than I particularly remembered it.

Happy New Year! I hope that there will be good news re: Hamlin soon. It is shocking when something like that happens to one so young.

I look forward to following your posts here and in the SF group.

>20 Karlstar: Same to you! Provenance has a distinct tone, but I'm just getting to the point where the plot is getting interesting.

>30 Sakerfalcon: Same to you. The only news so far is that there has been incremental improvement but he's still on a ventilator.

You may have already heard this, but according to the latest report, Damar Hamlin is conscious and showing no sign of neurological damage. I believe he is still on breathing support, but that shouldn't last much longer. Good news, finally!

>32 Karlstar: I hadn't heard that and I'm so glad to read of the improvement in his situation!

>32 Karlstar: I just saw that too. Very promising news.

>32 Karlstar: Excellent news! I'm keeping his loved ones, teammates, and Tee Higgins in my thoughts. I am not sending any good vibes to Roger Goodell.

More great news about Damar, from a CNN correspondent on Twitter.

>32 Karlstar: That is excellent news!

>32 Karlstar: I watched the press conference. All wonderful news. I hope his lungs heal quickly. (I was under the impression that somehow they were damaged during the resuscitation process.)

>1 Karlstar: starred!

>38 clamairy: Seems like he is doing well, he communicated with his teammates today remotely. Great news. Hopefully he'll make a full recovery.

In reading news, I am almost finished with Provenance, I'll probably move on to one of the Jack Campbell novels I received for Christmas.

Boundless: The Lost Fleet: Outlands is the one I'm reading, though so far it seems like a repeat of Victorious. as it starts with him dealing with what feels like the same political situation, again. Still a fun read though.

>42 Karlstar: Next up in the Lost Fleet series for me is Vanguard: The Genesis Fleet. I'm hoping to get to that next month.

>44 Karlstar: I haven't read any in that sub-series yet, I'll be looking for your thoughts on it. I also have The Lost Stars: Perilous Shield on my TBR pile.

Done with Boundless, I may keep going with the Jack Campbell books and move on to The Lost Stars: Perilous Shield. Both were Christmas gifts from my wishlist.

Review time.

Provenance by Ann Leckie
STTM: 3 - some character growth, almost no time spent traveling
Rating: 5.5 out of 10 (rounded up)

This novel is set in the same universe and timeframe (roughly) as her Ancillary * novels, and is listed as the 4th book in the Imperial Radch series. It takes place almost entirely on Hwae, a human occupied planet.

It follows Ingray Aughskold, a young lady who is the adopted daughter of what seems to be a planetary senator from Hwae. People on Hwae obsess about 'vestiges', what we'd think of as souveners or mementos or relics. So much so that they have enormous monetary value and even political value. To get her mother's attention and approval, she concocts a scheme involving vestiges that requires her to pay to have someone smuggled out of prison - called 'Compassionate Removal'. Ingray is vying with her brother for her mother's name and inheritance and she feels she has no shot to earn it. Lots of mayhem ensues when the alien Geck get involved and her scheme goes completely haywire.

This is told entirely from Ingray's point of view, which means we really never know exactly what's going on, as there's multiple conflicts going on. I thought this was good, but would have enjoyed it a lot more if it felt more like sci-fi, or even a bit futuristic.

Was it immersive? No, I kept putting it down to read other things.
Was it memorable? Yes, so far.
Would I re-read it? Probably not, unless another book came out about the same character and I wanted to refresh my memory a few years down the line.

>46 Karlstar: "Was it immersive? No, I kept putting it down to read other things."

That is often the kiss of death for me. If I find myself looking for other things to do I wonder if I should find a different book. The only Lecke I've read is The Raven Tower and I really enjoyed it. Did you enjoy the rest of this series? I am pretty sure I bought a few for my Kindle.

>47 clamairy: I enjoyed Ancillary Justice, but not quite enough to read the other books in the series. I have been considering her fantasy novels, based on what some of you folks have been saying about it. I will say that while Provenance wasn't immersive, I think it is going to stick with me for a while, the main character was good and the plot was quirky.

>48 Karlstar: I thought The Raven Tower was an outstanding stand-alone. If you haven't yet read it, that's an excellent one to begin with. I gulped it down.

>42 Karlstar: I'm still on the first series, #3 is next, Courageous.

>50 fuzzi: Boundless, while it has a different sub-title, is really a continuation of that series. The Lost Stars sub-series is about the Midway system and some of the characters there, with a lot of tie-ins to the other series and the occasional appearance by Admiral Geary. Even though Boundless comes after Perilous Shield in the time-line, I'm glad I read them in this order.

Done with Perilous Shield, going back to the Great Admirals book to finish it up. I've updated https://www.librarything.com/topic/342834#8003518 with the list and short comments.

Corrected the link to go to the right post.

Done with the Admirals, that was a good, short reference of the admirals that were included. I've moved on to Dies the Fire, the first book in Stirling's post-apocalypse series, but since I've already read books 4-10, I'm finding that I already know the characters and what's going to happen and I'm not all that interested in how they got there, as this book picks up immediately at the start of The Event. This was a library sale purchase, so I don't feel any obligation to finish it, we'll see how it goes.

A short review.
The Lost Fleet: Outlands: Boundless by Jack Campbell
STTM: 4 - a decent amount of time spent in space and land travel
Rating: 6 out of 10

I enjoy these books just because I enjoy light military scifi. The old familiar characters of Admiral Jack Geary, Capt. Tanya Desjani and the other ship captains continue on in this book. Adm. Geary has his MacArthur moment - called back to the capital to report, will he take over the Alliance to save it from itself and become a dictator like most people assume?

Putting the rest under a spoiler tag for those reading the series but not yet this far. Geary and Tanya finally get their honeymoon. Afterwards, they and the fleet are sent back out to space to confront the Enigma aliens, but a new diplomat is sent along who is nominally in charge. They again end up at Midway and have to deal with the independent government there (which is detailed in the Lost Stars sub-series) and the Syndics.

There's not a ton of personal interaction in these books, but Boundless has a bit more than most, actually. I like the characters and the story and the idea of a war-weary civilization trying to remember what peace is like is interesting. This is just light space opera with a tiny bit of political commentary from time to time.

Saw this just now:

John Scalzi, novelist and internet personality, is the 2023 winner of the Robert A. Heinlein Award! He will be attending Balticon 57, to accept his award.

>55 Karlstar: Oh, that's great news. I adore him.

>55 Karlstar: Oh, awesome! He deserves this, IMHO.

>55 Karlstar: Ooh, that's tempting! I suspect if I go, I can be almost sure I'd get Covid. But keeping an eye on it. Balmer is quite close.

?58 I'd never heard of it before, I just don't keep up with the convention calendar at all. It is tempting, I've only been to one scifi convention.

>58 Jim53: and >59 Karlstar: My husband and I originally met at a Balticon 'way back when. It used to be held at the Hunt Valley Inn and frequently the con was held on Easter weekend, when you saw folks all dressed up and standing in line for the holiday brunch rubbing elbows with the Balticon scruffy looking nerf-herders (cos players).

But yes, I was glad to see Scalzi get this.

>60 jillmwo:
I have been shying away from Scalzi's works. I have a couple of his books. I cannot recall the name of the book I tried to read, but when I started reading it I found myself not liking it. Since that experience I have seen a lot of people praising his books and at least two referred to the book I had tried to read saying it was an exceptionally poor example of his writing. I have Red Shirts and will give that a go. The people praising his work are people whose opinion I hold in high regard.

>61 pgmcc: Which one did you try? I loved Redshirts when I read it a decade ago, but then I didn't read anything else of his for a while. Then I read Old Man's War and enjoyed that, too, but found I could not get into the sequel. I just read The Kaiju Preservation Society last year after being hit by a bullet from @tardis (I think?) and I found that hilarious.

>62 clamairy:
Zoe's Tale. I could not get comfortable with it, and then people commented that it was not his best and that I should try Old Man's War. Your comments on Redshirts have been instrumental in my considering giving him a second chance.

>63 pgmcc: You can't start with Zoe's Tale, that's jumping into the middle of things and not the strongest book in the series. I can see why you struggled with it. If you're interested in that sort of military scifi, start with Old Man's War. You may find it has some interesting concepts. Redshirts is completely different and as >62 clamairy: said, The Kaiju Preservation Society is just fun.

I enjoyed Red Shirts so much that I gave it to every member of my immediate family one Christmas. FWIW. The boys were cackling over it.

>65 jillmwo: Oh Jill, your touchstone for Redshirts is hilariously out of whack! 😂

Didn't we have a group discussion on that one? I must go check.

Another Redshirts fan here, albino with several other Scalzi novels I have enjoyed.

>66 clamairy: Oh, jeez. Yes, it is. But I think others might want to share in the chortling so for now, I'll just leave it...

>68 jillmwo: That's good of you! :)

>68 jillmwo:
I must confess that after seeing >66 clamairy:'s post I dashed to use the touchstone in your post before you would correct it. :-)

I appreciate your deciding not to change it, at least for now.

>68 jillmwo: It was very thoughtful of you!

Perhaps there is something odd going on with this thread, because I just shifted my gaze to >67 MrsLee:, and I'm pretty sure Scalzi hasn't written any books with albino in the title...

>55 Karlstar: Great news!

>71 clamairy: I just checked and mine shows correct for me. I also checked when I posted, so as to not have a mistake.

>73 MrsLee: it wasn't the touchstone

>73 MrsLee: LOL, >74 NorthernStar: is right. I wasn't referring to your touchstone.

>74 NorthernStar: & >75 clamairy: LOL! I'm beginning to love the mistakes that happen when swipe texting. Of course I meant "along."

>76 MrsLee: They can be hilarious! For some reason, especially on LT, my phone uses 'titties' instead of 'titles,' and my eyes don't notice.

I finished Dies the Fire and have moved on to City of the Beast by Moorcock, this one is filling in the last book of a series where I had the other two books.

edit: City of the Beast is the first of the series, I have the other two.

I love intros to new editions! The City of the Beast I'm reading is the Planet Stories edition from a few years ago. When it was first released in 1965, it was released as 'Warriors of Mars' and the author was Edward P. Bradbury. Apparently that was all an attempt to get it placed on shelves right next to the Burroughs Mars books, with a similar title and an author who people might just get confused with the other Bradbury.

This is a short, straight-up re-write of the John Carter books, the only difference in setting is that since by 1965 we knew more about Mars, it is set on Mars of a million years ago.

Already done with City of the Beast/Warriors of Mars. Not sure what is next.

>78 Karlstar: If you continue with the Emberverse books, I recommend stopping after the first trilogy. It wraps up pretty well there, and after that comes a long line of books that don't really advance the plot much. I gave up after the tenth one but I think there are several more after that.

>81 Darth-Heather: I don't think it is a coincidence that I also stopped at The Given Sacrifice, the 10th in the series. I am sometimes tempted to continue but have so far resisted. LT says I still have not read books 2,3 and 5, but I'm fairly certain I have read 3 - 10, I either borrowed the missing two or just misplaced them. I picked up Dies the Fire at a library sale.

>82 Karlstar: yep, sounds about right! :) I had trouble getting into the first one; for some reason the writer's style seemed jarring and clunky at the beginning but either he got better or I just got used to his ways, enough to continue with the next ones. It was highly recommended by someone I trust, so I had kept trying and eventually got there. I never did read the Nantucket ones.

>78 Karlstar: & >81 Darth-Heather: I generally love post-apocalyptic fiction, but for some reason I've avoided this series. You two aren't making me feel like I've made the wrong choice.

>84 clamairy: yeah, it's not an easy one to recommend, although there are elements of the story that are worth while. I liked the premise and the characters, once I got past the rough start. It seems that we are agreed as far as recommending that if you ever do give it a try, stop after the first trilogy... :)

>85 Darth-Heather: Yeah, the first trilogy is the best. I continued further but have fallen off the wagon on that series. I doubt I'll return. I got up to 8 or 9 or so.

>86 majkia: Did you also read the Nantucket trilogy? As far as I can tell, they take place during the same event but in a different locale, but they didn't get very good reviews.

>84 clamairy: As post-apocalyptic fiction, I actually enjoyed it, but there are just too many books in the series. Dies the Fire has a strong pagan focus for about half the story line, if that matters to you. The characters are quite good. I'll post a review soonish!

>87 Darth-Heather: I have read the Nantucket trilogy, but when I looked here on LT I see there is a 4th book I have not read. I liked the first two books in that series quite a bit, the 3rd not quite as much.

>84 clamairy: I have only read one Stirling book - and it was quite enough for me. The blurb on the back of Conquistador, (stand-alone and not part of the series under discussion), made it seem like just my type of thing. It wasn't. Perhaps if that mass market paperback had been pared down from its bloviating 608 pages to somewhere around 300 or 350 pages...? Today, I would DNF but in those days I still felt compelled to finish every book I started - especially if I had paid money for a print copy, ("I don't care how much I dislike this book. I'm going to get my money's worth!").

That being said, Conquistador gets a lot of 5-star reviews on Amazon and the average rating here on LT is 3.73 - far higher than the 2 stars I gave it. YMMV.

>88 Karlstar: & >89 ScoLgo: Thank you both for your input. Perhaps I'll try the audio. I suspect my ears are much more forgiving than my eyes. I usually* enjoy well-written pagan influenced books, movies and TV shows.

*The exception being shows like Supernatural, where the first episode I watched had a demon named Sam Hain (I kid you not!) who manifested on Halloween.

>90 clamairy: There's none of that, it is very respectful.

>87 Darth-Heather: yes. The Nantucket trilogy was my favorite of them all. Also, unrelated but by the same author I ADORED The Peshawar Lancers , also post-apocalyptic

Done with City of the Beast (typical Moorcock, super short) and I've moved on to Baptism of Fire, the 5th book in The Witcher series.

Catching up on reviews, though we've already had a bit of discussion.

The Lost Stars: Perilous Shield by Jack Campbell
STTM: 2 - there's no mud in space
Rating: 5 out of 10

This is part of the 'Lost Star' sub-series, while still in the same universe and timeline as the 'Lost Fleet' series, Adm. Geary makes only a token appearance while this series focuses on the Midway system. Midway is now independent of both Alliance and Syndicate after the war and the co-rulers, Gen. Drakon and President Iceni must figure out how to create a new form of government, find all of the old Syndicate spies (called 'snakes') and maybe sort of have a relationship.

This one is quite different from the usual Campbell. The writing style and characters aren't much different, but it is the setting and focus on personal interactions that is completely different. It is kind of hilarious (and frustrating for the reader) how Iceni and Drakon, both former Syndicate CEO's (more fascism than capitalism) who are used to assassinations and political backstabbing are almost incapable of trust and so incapable of normal relationships. On the other hand, Alliance Captain Honore Bradamont is assigned to help out the Midway government and she takes over large parts of the action in this one, so there's still the usual fleet action.

While they struggle to form a democratic government to appease the people and defend their almost defenseless systems, they have to deal with their mysterious and deadly subordinates, especially Morgan, the psychopath.

There's a terrible cliffhanger ending, but it fits right in with the rest of the book. This is just fun action scifi.

Was it memorable? Sort of, in a vague way.
Was it immersive? Yes, I flew through this one.
Would I read it again? Most likely not.

Dies the Fire by S.M. Stirling
STTM: 7 - lots of travel, lots of character growth
Rating: 7 out of 10

I almost didn't start this one. As mentioned in >82 Karlstar:, I had picked up this series with book three, because I've read the related Nantucket series. However, I picked up this one at a library sale, so decided to give it a try.

This book jumps right into things. It follows two people, Mike Havel and Juniper MacKenzie and their friends. Mike is flying a family of rich tourists to a mountain cabin in Idaho. Juniper is a musician entertaining at a rennaisance-themed bar when The Change hits. All technology stops working, everything electrical or powered by fossil fuel no longer works. Mike has to crash land his plane and get his wounded charges back to civilization. Juniper, who is in a small city, immediately sees civilization turn to anarchy and heads for the hills.

This is classic post-apocalyptic fiction, picking up right from the start. Juniper and her friend circle are all pagans, so there's a strong pagan focus through half of the book. They basically have two paths to the same place. Juniper and friends have to gather gear and get out of civilization to somewhere safe. Mike and his former passengers have to get out of the mountains to something that at least resembles civilization.

Stirling is not an optimist, he assumes that a significant part of the population turns to pure anarchy or 'might makes right' feudalism and worse, while only a few people actually have the skills to survive. Juniper's crew has the advantage of having a group and having a base, while Mike's crew has the advantage of his military and outdoor skills, but only a small group and no base. The action takes place almost entirely in Oregon and Idaho, mostly Oregon, parts of which are good farm country.

There's also a bit of a mystical element. You do have to avoid thinking about what The Change is though. One of the characters blames it on 'alien space bats' who are trying to keep humanity down and theorizes that it has happened before. This is as good an explanation as any as The Change is very selective.

I liked the characters and the plot, but I'm a sucker for post-apocalypse rebuild stories. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would, even knowing what was in store in the future for the characters. It is well written, a little grim but ultimately hopeful.

Was it immersive: Yes.
Was it memorable: Yes
Would I re-read it? Probably not, I would just skip ahead in the series.

I finished Baptism of Fire, which could have also been called 'Dragging the Witcher through the Mud'; the title would have been more accurate. I received All the Seas of the World by Kay as a Christmas gift and I've started it and so far it is good, there's at least hope that he ties it into the previous two books somehow.

>95 Karlstar: I really enjoyed that part of the series. I'm a former Loggie (logistician) so always enjoy books that actually deal with, you know, the basics needed for survival, rather than the flash bang side of things.

>96 Karlstar: Well, I am looking forward to your review of the Kay book. I had set it aside because I couldn't deal with the assassinations, but that may have been more to do with my mood than with his writing. (Never can tell with these things....)

>98 jillmwo: Not sure why he's writing about such a violent time period, but since he is, I guess it fits. There's more action later, but in less detail. I'm also finding that All the Seas of the World is really a sequel to A Brightness Long Ago, and not Children of Earth and Sky. The chronology is right, but the characters and actions from ABLO, are much more connected.

You might want to consider giving it another try. If so, let me know you feel when you get to around page 295 (at least in my hardcover copy) and see if he hasn't made up for the assassinations.

>99 Karlstar: Thank you for the encouraging note. I definitely will circle back around.

Done with All the Seas of the World, I enjoyed it. His sort of circular way of writing was annoying at times, but it was a good story, with good characters. Not sure what's next, but I have to pick something.

I remembered I wanted to do a re-read and The Left Hand of Darkness was at the top of the list. It was either that or An Army at Dawn: The War in North Africa, 1942-1943, which is a much longer project.

>102 Karlstar: I should re-read The Left Hand of Darkness myself. It was the 1970s when I read it.

>102 Karlstar: and >103 pgmcc: I've read it more recently than the 1970's, but it's still been more than ten years. Yes, it might well be time for a re-read.

>103 pgmcc: >104 jillmwo: Jump on in! My paperback copy is from 1981, I've been thinking about switching to an e-reader version.

>105 Karlstar: I checked my old text file last night, and saw that I read this back in 2004. The thing I remember most about it was the brutal cold and the fancy tech that kept their tent warm. I might do a reread.

>106 clamairy: She seems to like wintry worlds, the second of the Hainish novels, Planet of Exile, was also at least partially a very cold planet.

Somebody remind me -- wasn't The Left Hand of Darkness where she initially introduced the word, ansible?

>108 jillmwo: Le Guin first used ansible in her first novel, Rocannon's World.

>109 ScoLgo: You know, there are very few areas in my life where I can ask a question like that -- one requiring specificity as to source material -- and so quickly get back a good solid response. Thank you!

The Left Hand of Darkness is going well so far, though I'd forgotten how much it is about politics in the beginning.

For the mystery fans: https://www.theringer.com/tv/2023/2/14/23596941/you-season-4-agatha-christie-who...

>110 jillmwo: ;-)

>106 clamairy: I always remembered the tent part, which makes sense, that's about 60% of the book.

>108 jillmwo: but IIRC it's in The Dispossessed that we see it invented.

I remember a lot of LHoD; the image that sticks with me is Estraven skiing to join the others. His death echoes the blood being used to bless an arch in the beginning of the book; his blood consecrates the agreement between Gethen and the Ekumen.

ETA I would love to join in reading LHoD again but not sure I can find the time with numerous commitments. I'll be watching for comments tho!

>114 Jim53: You are absolutely right... Shevek, the protagonist of The Dispossessed is working on the maths that will lead to the discovery of the ansible device. It is an integral part of the plot. Internal chronology of the Hainish series begins with The Dispossessed while publishing order begins with Rocannon's World. The book under discussion, The Left Hand of Darkness, is the fourth novel published and the sixth in internal chronology. Of course, according to Le Guin, the order doesn't really matter as all of the Hainish books and short stories are only loosely connected...

A Note From Ursula

People write me nice letters asking what order they ought to read my science fiction books in — the ones that are called the Hainish or Ekumen cycle or saga or something. The thing is, they aren’t a cycle or a saga. They do not form a coherent history. There are some clear connections among them, yes, but also some extremely murky ones. And some great discontinuities (like, what happened to "mindspeech” after Left Hand of Darkness? Who knows? Ask God, and she may tell you she didn’t believe in it any more.)

OK, so, very roughly, then:

Rocannon’s World, Planet of Exile, City of Illusions: where they fit in the “Hainish cycle” is anybody’s guess, but I’d read them first because they were written first. In them there is a “League of Worlds,” but the Ekumen does not yet exist.

Then you could read The Word for World is Forest, The Left Hand of Darkness, The Dispossessed, in any order. In Dispossessed, the ansible gets invented; but they’re using it in Left Hand, which was written fifteen years earlier. Please do not try to explain this to me. I will not understand.

Then in the collection of stories A Fisherman of the Inland Sea, the three last stories are Ekumenical, and we even finally find out a little about Hain, where it all began. The story suite Four Ways to Forgiveness is part of that universe, and so is the novel The Telling. But I have to warn you that the planet Werel in Four Ways is not the planet Werel in Planet of Exile. In between novels, I forget planets. Sorry.

The Eye of the Heron may or may not be set in the Hainish universe; it really doesn’t matter. As for The Lathe of Heaven and Always Coming Home, my Terran science fiction novels, they definitely don’t exist in the same universe as the Hainish or Ekumenical books.

— Ursula K. Le Guin

>114 Jim53: >115 ScoLgo: I read the 'first' three Hainish novels last year. I'd agree that it helps to feel comfortable in LeGuin's universe having read them, but there's nothing in them that is necessary to read LHoD.

The Dispossessed will be going on my re-read list, that's another one that I read a long time ago from the library but do not own.

>116 Karlstar: The first three Hainish novels are generally considered "apprentice works," not up to the standards that would later be set by the remaining novels in the set. IMO LHoD and TD are head and shoulders above the others; in TWfWIF the dreaming is interesting, but it's pretty plainly a response to the Viet Nam war. I enjoyed The Telling but didn't think it exceptional. I've never gotten around to Four Ways to Forgiveness; has anyone else?

>117 Jim53: I would agree with that, while I enjoyed the first three, LHoD is definitely better. I'm done with LHoD, it was great, I'll have to check my old review here on LT and upgrade it a bit. Like most re-reads, I learned new things about the book this time around.

I have not read The Telling or Four Ways to Forgiveness.

The Valentine's Day Hunt is on!

>119 Karlstar: I had to look at the hints in the Talk thread, but have now found all the hearts! I do enjoy the LT book hunts!

>120 Sakerfalcon: Congrats! The very first one is frustrating me, I'm fairly sure I know what it is, just not finding the right page on LT. I'm at 7 so far.

Yikes. I have not read The Dispossessed, and I own a Kindle copy. Perhaps I will read that instead of rereading LHoD. I'm not getting any younger.

>121 Karlstar: A hint which helped me think of the plural

Just to chime in on the conversation:

>122 clamairy: I was thinking I'd dip into The Dispossessed before going back to Left Hand of Darkness. It's been at least since I seriously read either.

>119 Karlstar: and >120 Sakerfalcon: I have gotten about eight of the full set of hearts in this challenge. I think I have found all of the ones pertaining to the functional pages on LT but the hearts tied to specific works are challenging. I hadn't yet resorted to consulting the Talk thread for the challenge; perhaps I'll do that this evening and see if I get any further along.

>115 ScoLgo: You are clearly very, very familiar with LeGuin and her work. 'Way ahead of me in some respects.

>123 Sakerfalcon: That did it, thanks!

>124 jillmwo: I'm up for it if you folks want to read The Dispossessed.

>124 jillmwo: Same here, sometimes if I let the clues bounce around in my head for a while I'll get some of the ones about specific works, but I don't think most of them are in genres I read.

>117 Jim53: I agree that The Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossessed are two of Le Guin's finest works. Around 10 years ago, I read all of the Hainish novels and short stories. During that first read-through, my favorite was City of Illusions because I loved the central conceit being explored; what is truth - and how does one identify it?

In 2019, anticipating a Hainish re-read, (which hasn't happened yet), I picked up a copy of the Library of America Box Set. Included is Five Ways to Forgiveness, (the extra story being Old Music and the Slave Women, a tale that I first read in The Birthday of the World and other stories - which is an excellent collection, BTW). I rather enjoyed The Telling and Four Ways to Forgiveness when I read them. Have you read The Day Before the Revolution, the short story that connects with The Dispossessed?

>124 jillmwo: Le Guin is one of my top 5 favorite authors. At this point, I have collected most of her fiction in print, and much of that in hardback. I even picked up a copy of The Books of Earthsea when it was post-humously published. It's a beautiful book - but what a doorstop it is!

>125 Karlstar: I would be up for reading The Dispossessed again. My first time through was in publication order and my planned re-read will be internal chronology, which puts that volume first.

>122 clamairy: >124 jillmwo: >126 ScoLgo: Looks like we have at least 4 for The Dispossessed. I'll get a copy, >122 clamairy: isn't quite ready yet.

I picked up Radio Free Albemuth in the meantime, should be a quick read.

I pulled The Dispossessed off my shelf last night and (once I'd dusted it off thoroughly) I realized I'm ALL SET to revisit this one. I don't know if you might enjoy it as a group read, but would you be up for participating?

>128 jillmwo: I'm up for it!

Fixed the reference.

A couple of reviews.
Baptism of Fire (Witcher #5)
STTM: 9 out of 10. Rain, mud, fire, repeat.
Rating: 4 out of 10

This is a solid 4 star book for me, I don't recommend it. It almost felt like the author was just taking the time to introduce some new characters that may be temporary, while teaching Geralt that he really does need friends and allies.

This one picks up immediately after the previous book and introduces Milva, an expert archer who gets thrown in with the Witcher, though she has no desire to help him at all. The Elves and Nilfgaardians are destroying the northern kingdoms, bringing fire and destruction and slaughter everywhere they go. As soon as he leaves safety, The Witcher has to dodge both elves and armies on both sides, blundering through the rain and mud from one destroyed village to another. Along the way he picks up a group of dwarves, multiple groups of refugees, Dandelion the bard and another companion of very dubious nature.

This is basically the plot of the book, the Witcher with various people blundering around. There's a bit of time spent on a sub-plot concerning the sorceresses of the various kingdoms, but there was just as much blundering in that plot too. Milva is an interesting character, but by the end of the book I got the impression she was not a major one.

Was it immersive? Eh, only in the sense that I kept reading hoping it would get better.
Was it memorable? Only in a negative sense.
Would I re-read it? Absolutely not.

All the Seas of the World by Guy G. Kay
STTM: 6 - quite a bit of musing, quite a bit of travel.
Rating: 8 out of 10

By bringing together the plot lines from A Brightness Long Ago and Children of Earth and Sky, to me this book was an improvement on both. There are two new major characters, Lenia Serrana and Rafel ben Natal. Partners in a ship that they sometimes use for raids, they get involved in a major plot that drags them into world events. During the course of those events, they meet a couple of important characters from the previous books. Both Folco d'Accorsi and Ban Rasca make an appearance, Folco is a major character.

Both Lenia and Rafel have to navigate the challenges of Kay's re-imagined Earth of the Mediterranean where religious conflict drives politics. A constant theme is the the challenges they face as minorities in this world. There is intrigue and politics and personal danger, as well as a lot of personal triumph and joy. Lenia is a fighter, she is constantly in danger, but is very dangerous herself. I kept feeling like I was missing her previous history, like I'd read it in a previous book but forgot it.

The triumph and joy for me is what sets this one apart from the previous two books, which were mostly sad and frustrating. As usual Kay's writing is excellent, though he does have a tendency in this one to circle around and repeat some thoughts and concepts of the characters. By the end of the book, I'd had enough of the words 'Jaddite' and 'Asharite' though.

The map is terrible, it looks like a 4 year old drew the Mediterranean and left off parts.

Was it immersive: Yes
Was it memorable: Yes
Would I re-read it: Possibly

>128 jillmwo:
It is a long time since I read The Dispossessed. I loved all the other Le Guin books I have read, but this one did not do much for me. I was obviously not mature enough for it on my first read. I will definitely read it again but I think I will read The Left Hand of Darkness again first. It was the 1970s when I read these books and I hope I have grown more discerning in the time that has passed since.

>132 pgmcc: I hear you have time to read these days! I believe we're waiting for a couple of folks to be ready and I don't even have a copy yet, though I can get an ebook quickly if need be.

I finished Radio Free Albemuth, I think the previous time I picked it up, I read about 10 pages and gave up. It was weird but interesting, probably more interesting now than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

>127 Karlstar: I'll join!

>135 Sakerfalcon: Awesome! I'm wondering if we should start a LHOD/The Dispossessed thread, for those who want to read both.

I was interested to find that used copies of The Dispossessed are a little rare.

I DNF'd The Dispossessed.

>127 Karlstar: >128 jillmwo: >135 Sakerfalcon: >136 Karlstar: I cracked open my copy of The Dispossessed and read the first couple of chapters last night. Would also be up for re-visiting The Left Hand of Darkness.

>137 majkia: May I ask how far you read into The Dispossessed and what made you decide to DNF it?

>138 ScoLgo: My only note on it says boring and never cared about protagonist. I generally read at least 50 pages before I DNF. And this was awhile ago, when I seldom DNF'd.

eta: finally found the notes about it:
Woke up this morning and decided to abandon The Dispossessed. Not a bad book, but I've read a third of it and nothing happens. Well written, mildly interesting protag, but honestly. All he does is sit around and marvel at what a wonder he himself is and how he's abaonded his own world and their sister world for and feels isolated.

I don't need blood and gore and wild abandon in a book, but I do want either a mystery to solve, or a hero to cheer for. Poor whatisname here provides me neither.

>139 majkia: Got'cha. I get that it's not for everyone - but it does sound as though you at least read quite a bit more than 50 pages before giving up, so kudos for that!

>139 majkia:
I read The Dispossessed a long, long time ago. I finished it, but your comments describe what I remember of how I felt about the book. The level of praise for the book has me willing to give it another read to see what I missed. I have loved all the other Le Guin books I have read.

>141 pgmcc: It may have something to do with how one comes at it. I had read some Le Guin back when I was a teen, but not any of the Hain books. Instead, it was the original Earthsea trilogy and The Lathe of Heaven, both of which really stuck with me. Fast forward a few decades, (ahem), and I decided to read all of the Hainish universe in one go. Honestly, by the time I got to the 5th and 6th books, (I was reading in publication order), I was experiencing a bit of burnout. I therefore don't think I got quite as much out of The Left Hand of Darkness or The Dispossessed as I otherwise might have.

Nowadays, when I read a series, I take breaks between installments. I find it helps avoid exhausting myself upon the shoals of a single style of writing.

Also, books are like Ye Olde River Time. You can jump back in but it's not the same water, and you won't be the same person. I have found myself re-reading something and coming away with a completely different experience. The Suck Fairy™ phenomenon is one aspect of this, but I have also had the opposite happen; a book I didn't care for will suddenly reveal itself to me as something much deeper and more meaningful upon later review. This is already happening for me on this re-read of The Dispossessed. I got through the first couple of chapters last night and am enjoying it immensely.

>142 ScoLgo:
That sort of experience is what I am hoping for. I read The Dispossessed when I was about twenty-years-old. Considering I have just become an OAP, that must be about blah, blah, blahitty years ago.

>142 ScoLgo: I had the Reverse Suck Fairy™ visit me with East of Eden. I enjoyed it much more the second time around, which was probably 15 years later.

>144 clamairy: East of Eden is still in progress, sometimes I pick it up and read a chapter.

>145 Karlstar: Is it your fist time reading it?

>146 clamairy: Yes, I haven't read much Steinbeck at all.

I needed something light to read so I picked up The Changeling Sea, which is very short, but taking me longer than it should to get through.

>148 Karlstar: I remember finding The Changeling Sea a bit cutesy but overall I liked it quite a bit.

>149 Jim53: It is just a light, fluffy fantasy romance, really.

I know I was supposed to be joining in on The Dispossessed group read and the book did arrive.

Unfortunately, on Tuesday we had to say goodbye to Luna, our (my) cat of 17 years. Or I was her human, you know how it goes. While we knew she was getting close to her time, an injury forced us to make the decision much sooner than we would have.

Wednesday morning, my Aunt (and godmother) passed suddenly. She was my mother's last surviving sibling and she's quite shaken up. It hasn't been a fun week.

>151 Karlstar: so sorry for your losses. That is a lot for one week. My condolences regarding both Luna and your aunt/godmother.

>151 Karlstar: I'm very sorry for your losses, and extend my deepest sympathy.

>151 Karlstar: Deepest sympathy from us to both of you.

>151 Karlstar: Allow me to join the chorus with heartfelt sympathy.

>151 Karlstar:
My sincere condolences on the passing of your aunt and your feline companion. Take care of yourself.

>151 Karlstar: Oh no. I am so very sorry for both of these losses... Your poor mother. She must be heartbroken. Much strength to all of you.

So very sorry for your loss.

>152 NorthernStar: >153 tardis: >154 haydninvienna: >155 hfglen: >156 pgmcc: >157 clamairy: Thanks everyone.

>151 Karlstar: That is a rough week. Be gentle to yourself as you comfort those around you.

>151 Karlstar: I'm so sorry for your losses.

>151 Karlstar: I'm so sorry, Jim. I'm wishing you, your mom, and your family peace and small comforts from happy memories.

>161 Narilka: Such a difficult set of losses to cope with. I'm so sorry.

>151 Karlstar: So sorry to hear this. Wishing you peace and strength.

>160 MrsLee: >162 libraryperilous: >162 libraryperilous: >163 jillmwo: >164 Jim53: Thank you.

Because of all of the alternate-Earth references to North African locations in All the Seas of the World, I'm re-reading An Army at Dawn by Rick Atkinson. I'll probably start The Dispossessed tomorrow.

>151 Karlstar: I'm so sorry to hear your sad news. Take care of yourself. I hope you and your family can take comfort from each other.

>166 Sakerfalcon: Thank you.

Three days later, still haven't started The Dispossessed, it is just moving about the house from place to place. Maybe tonight.

It may well be that this isn't an ideal time to tackle The Dispossessed. Don't force it. Ease back and wait to see if there's something else you find that better fits your mood.

>168 jillmwo: Right now An Army at Dawn is suiting my mood. I know that likely seems like a strange choice, but I've been wanting to re-read it anyway. I do have a couple of Zelazny's Amber books coming, the talk of a possible TV series got me thinking about them and mine all have to be replaced. I thought a few had survived the water damage from back in 2018, but none did.

>168 jillmwo: What I love about how LT chat works is that the discussion won't disappear. You can come back to it even years later and still see the comments and reopen the discussion!

>170 Sakerfalcon: True. Folks are better about it here, but isn't there some internet disapproval of re-opening old conversations or even replying more than a few hours late?

>171 Karlstar: On many forums, yes. In here, not at all. We want people to discuss the books they're reading, even if the thread is 'old enough to drive' in some places.

>172 clamairy:
even if the thread is 'old enough to drive' in some places.

I love your turn of phrase.

>173 pgmcc: Thank you. :o)

>171 Karlstar: I never knew of any general Internet grumpiness about that kind of thing. I feel "off kilter" as if I've just been told of spinach in my teeth or something equally gauche. But certainly as >172 clamairy: said, I find the Pub here to be fairly comfortable in sharing and chatting as things pop up and get re-visited. I mean we still have the "kill the thread" thread that has its own amazing longevity (and a very, very long tail...)

>172 clamairy: Good to know it wasn't my imagination! Thanks to all of you folks for being understanding about that sort of thing, sometimes it takes a day or so to check in here.

Review time.
Radio Free Albemuth by Philip K. Dick
STTM: 5 - there's no travel at all, but this is one long personal journey
Rating: 5 out of 10

From my revised review here on LT.

A sci-fi classic from the 70's. This is Philip K. Dick's last novel, as it was discovered after his death. Strangely, he puts himself in it. This is the story of Nicholas Brady. Brady lives in Berkley, CA in the 1950s when the book starts and is portrayed as a typical Berkley intellectual - atheist and anti-establishment. Then he starts betting nighttime messages from an entity he calls 'Valis'. As the book goes on he alternately theorizes that Valis is an alien group entity, or something from an alternate universe, or from the future, or God. Opposing Valis are the forces of evil and when a fascist takes over the presidency of the USA, it becomes a police state.

Weird but interesting. I actually enjoyed reading it, though I thought putting a fictional version of himself in the book was a little strange. This definitely is speculative fiction, though what he is speculating about, I'm not sure I can say. The dangers of a police state? The nature of the battle of good vs. evil?

I believe I picked this book up in the past, got about two chapters in and quit, as I wasn't in the mood at the time.

Was it memorable? In a way, I think in the near future I'll just remember the theme and not the characters.
Was it immersive? Yes, I enjoyed reading it and never felt like putting it down.
Would I re-read it? Technically, I just did, but I doubt I will in the future.

The Changeling Sea by Patricia McKillip
STTM: 2 - no travel and it is very short
Rating: 6 out of 10

My LT review:
A typical fantasy romance by McKillip. This is a very short novel, telling the story of a young lady, Periwinkle. Peri just lost her father to the sea and her mother is completely lost in her own head over it. Peri and her family live in a small fishing village on a small island. While hating the sea now, Peri keeps being drawn to it and when a mysterious, chained sea dragon appears, things get interesting. A light, well written fantasy romance, though the writing style is a bit subdued for McKillip.

This reminded me, in setting and characters, of The Bell at Sealey Head, though the plot is different. It also had a little bit of a Cinderella feel to it.

If you like fluffy, well written fantasy romance, you'll like this one. Like all McKillip books, it is very well written, though the writing style was not as ornate as Od Magic, or as formal as some of her other novels.

>177 Karlstar: I never read RFA. but I have a vague recollection of reading VALIS some time in the 80s. Are they related? IIRC there was a character in VALIS who, while not named PKD, was an obvious stand-in for him. I think Richard Nixon was involved too.

>179 Jim53: They are related in that Radio Free Albemuth is an early version of the Valis trilogy, (Valis, The Divine Invasion, The Transmigration of Timothy Archer). RFA was written earlier but published later (posthumously) than the trilogy, which was PKD re-writing the original story in longer form after his first draft was rejected. RFA is, to my knowledge, the only version that has been adapted to film.

Another story about book collecting and shelving. "How to organize your books, according to people with thousands of them."

This should be a free link:

https://wapo.st/3Zsg6F5

Nice. I subscribe but I missed that.
I'm thinking a few of those Billies will be great in my finished basement. I still have a lot of books in boxes. My old oak shelves don't look so great down there. (Though I guess I could just paint them. Only the trim is actual oak.)

>181 Karlstar:
Interesting. Billies are the backbone of my library. A story about every book is not far from the case. (Bookcase in this situation.)

>182 clamairy: >183 pgmcc: I heard a rumor that Ikea is putting a distribution center somewhere in this area and now they'll deliver! I may have to check it out and get a couple of the Billy bookcases.

Newby to the thread (and to the group) - I'm digging back heavily into SFF this year. Finally read The Dispossessed last year & it's one of my all-time favorites. Not sure I would have liked it as much when I was younger.

Nice thread - I'll be back!

>185 ChrisG1: Welcome! Please think about joining the group discussion of The Dispossessed here: https://www.librarything.com/topic/348782#n8086807

>185 ChrisG1: Welcome and thanks for joining!

Finally done with An Army at Dawn and I'll be starting The Dispossessed next.

I'm going to flag this as spam for now instead of removing it so that the user can be removed from LT.

Someone can delete it after he's gone.

Oooh, I've finally been spammed!

>191 Karlstar: I'm jealous. It's a sign that you've truly arrived.

>192 clamairy: >193 Jim53: Twice!! :)

>194 Karlstar:

Great recognition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcY3W5WgNU

>191 Karlstar: Pretty sure I am experiencing FOMO.

>196 jillmwo: LOL!

>195 pgmcc: >196 jillmwo: You folks are a hoot!! With that, I'm starting a new thread. :)

"Have you got anything without Spam?"
"well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it"