NATO

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NATO

1margd
Oct 25, 2023, 8:10 am

Hungary:

KyivPost @KyivPost | 3:34 AM · Oct 25, 2023:

"Nobody is forcing Hungary to stay in the EU," EU High Representative Josep #Borrell said in his address to Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor #Orban.

“To be honest, I don’t see any similarities between the Soviet occupation of Budapest and what is happening in Berlamon (the headquarters of the European Commission). I didn't see a single tank there. Nobody obliges Hungary to be a member of the EU,” Borrell said.

Photo ( https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1717082095430799750/photo/1 )
--------------------------------------------

David Frum @davidfrum | 6:08 AM · Oct 25, 2023:

Orban wants freedom from the EU? His areer as Putin's Mini-Me was massively subsidized by European Union taxpayers. This summer, the EU suspended 28 billion Euros of transfers. Hungary GDP is only 180 billion Euros. Enjoy independence!

2John5918
Edited: Oct 25, 2023, 8:22 am

Based on the OP, wouldn't "EU" be a better thread title than NATO? But if Hungary is thinking of leaving the EU, they should look to the sad example of UK to see where that can lead.

As for NATO, it was a creature of the Cold War. Whether there is still a need for a western European and north American military alliance is arguable, but at the very least there need to be serious questions asked about whether it is still fit for purpose, and indeed what that purpose actually is.

3margd
Oct 25, 2023, 9:06 am

>2 John5918: Good catch. I've been thinking of concerns that Hungary knows NATO secrets, which it might pass on to Russia. Also vandalism of North Sea pipeline & communications, Turkey consideration of Sweden membership, Trump plans in any 2nd presidency to dismantle/weaken NATO or at least Article 5, etc. Too late to add EU to thread title now--will do so if warranted when/if thread survives to #2.

Turkey’s president submits protocol for Sweden’s admission into NATO to parliament for ratification
SUZAN FRASER | October 23, 2023

...All 31 NATO allies must endorse Sweden’s membership. Turkey and Hungary are the only two allies that have yet to ratify it...

https://apnews.com/article/turkey-sweden-nato-erdogan-77dce28b7d7386c2e363f2468d...

4LeraLittle
Edited: Nov 21, 2023, 5:29 am

This user has been removed as spam.

5margd
Edited: Nov 8, 2023, 1:14 pm

Ukraine membership in EU

Anton Gerashchenko @Gerashchenko_en | 4:39 AM · Nov 8, 2023
Ukrainian patriot. Advisor to the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine. Founder of the Institute of the Future. Official enemy of Russian propaganda

Conditions under which the EC will recommend accession negotiations with Ukraine and the deadline for their implementation have become known. Radio Svoboda has the latest version of the draft report.

▪️ The European Commission recommends approving the framework for negotiations when Ukraine takes steps on NABU {Nature And Biodiversity Conservation Union?} and NAPC {National Agency for Preventing Corruption? }, as well as approves a number of laws on de-oligarchization, national minorities, and takes into account the recommendations of the Venice Commission related to laws on the state language, media, and education.

▪️ It is also emphasized that Ukraine must continue to fight corruption through investigations and court convictions. According to the current draft, the European Commission will prepare the next report by March 2024.

1:00 ( https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1722187006107701346 )
_______________________________________________

Ursula von der Leyen @vonderleyen | 6:28 AM · Nov 8, 2023:
President of the @EU_Commission.

Ukrainians are deeply reforming their country and preparing for accession,
even as they are fighting an existential war.
Today the Commission recommends that the Council opens accession negotiations with Ukraine.
{Decision in 12/2023?}

Moldova has undertaken significant reforms, despite constant destabilisation efforts against its democracy.
The Commission recommends that the Council opens accession negotiations.

The Commission recommends to grant candidate status to Georgia on the understanding that the government takes important reform steps.
Steps that mirror the genuine aspirations of the overwhelming majority of its citizens to join the European Union.

6margd
Jan 27, 2024, 7:14 am

US approves sale of F-16 warplanes to Turkey
DW | 27 Jan 2024

Washington has approved a $23 billion deal to sell F-16 warplanes to Turkey ending months of negotiations. The sale comes after Turkey approved Sweden's NATO accession bid...

https://www.dw.com/en/us-approves-sale-of-f-16-warplanes-to-turkey/a-68100065?ma...

7margd
Feb 27, 2024, 9:53 am

DW News @dwnews | 11:11 AM · Feb 26, 2024:
Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban has pledged support for Sweden's accession to the NATO alliance, almost two years after the Nordic country formally applied for membership.
0:55 ( https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1762148298511593926 )

8margd
Edited: Mar 22, 2024, 2:04 pm

Daractenus @Daractenus | 9:02 AM · Mar 22, 2024:
Article 5 has been invoked only once, in the wake of 9/11. Every single NATO member answered America's call.

To whatever MAGA needs reminding, here's how many lives your allies have lost, fighting by your side:

UK: 457
Canada: 159
France: 90
Germany: 62
Italy: 53
Poland: 44
Denmark: 43
Spain: 35
Romania: 27
Netherlands: 25
Turkey: 15
Czech Republic: 14
Norway: 10
Estonia: 9
Hungary: 7
Sweden: 5*
Latvia: 4
Slovakia: 3
Finland: 2*
Portugal: 2
Albania: 1
Belgium: 1
Bulgaria: 1
Croatia: 1
Lithuania: 1
Montenegro: 1
*{Not NATO members at the time}

Despite not being in NATO, Ukraine answered America's call and 18 Ukrainian soldiers died in Afghanistan.
-----------------------------------------------

Same numbers (plus Australia, S Korea, NZ, Jordan, etc.) listed in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan

9margd
Apr 10, 2024, 10:07 am

Mark Gerretsen MP (Facebook) | 2024-04-08

Over the past 8 years, the federal government has made significant investments to strengthen the Armed Forces - reversing the cuts made by the previous government {Stephen Harper, 2006-2015}, when defence spending dropped below 1% of GDP.

Yesterday, the renewed vision for Canada's Defence was released.
This historic short-term investment of $8 billion over 5 years, and a long-term investment of $73 billion over 20 years is about supporting our Armed Forces and equipping them with the resources they need to keep Canadians safe in an unpredictable world.
-----------------------------------------

Our North, Strong and Free: A Renewed Vision for Canada’s Defence
Canada | Date released:

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
...Three powerful, connected trends are now reshaping our world:
Climate change is disproportionately affecting our Arctic. It is becoming increasingly accessible, and we are facing new security challenges in the region;
Autocracies and disruptive states are challenging the international order that keeps Canada safe and prosperous, propelled by Russia's flagrant violation of international law and China's attempts to reshape the international order to achieve its political goals; and
New and disruptive technologies are rapidly redefining conflict and what it takes to be safe and secure.

...Our North, Strong and Free is an investment in Canada and Canadians. It is an investment in our security and sovereignty. It is an investment in the brave members of our military and in jobs across the country, in communities from coast to coast to coast, in the advanced technology innovation economy that will define our future, and in a more robust defence industrial base that will supply our troops and support tens of thousands of highly skilled jobs.

It is an investment in Canadian values and strengths, underpinning our Arctic and northern sovereignty, strengthening our diplomatic influence, leveraging our world-leading talent in cyber and space, advancing our shared goal of reconciliation with Indigenous partners, including through the Inuit Nunangat Policy, and advancing our ability to make uniquely Canadian contributions to global peace and security.

Finally, this is an investment in the alliances and partnerships that enable Canadian security and prosperity. Securing our Arctic will keep North America safe, allow us to support our allies abroad, and contribute to deterring global conflict. By bringing relevant, robust capabilities to NATO's northern and western flanks, Canada will make valuable contributions to our partnerships in Europe and the Indo-Pacific in defence of our shared security and prosperity.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/reports-publicati...

10margd
May 14, 2024, 11:40 am

Hawaii Isn't Covered by NATO Defense Pact?
Anna Rascouët-Paz | May 13, 2024

TRUE
While Hawaii is technically excluded from the North Atlantic Treat Organization because it is not located around the Atlantic Ocean, the Mediterranean or north of the Tropic of Cancer, it is likely that NATO member countries would still rise to defend the U.S. should an attack occur on Hawaii.

...Hawaii became a U.S. state in 1959, 10 years after the U.S. ratified the North Atlantic Treaty. Its geographical location — in the Pacific — excluded it from the territory delineated in Article 6. Alaska, which became a state the same year as Hawaii, might've fallen out of the treaty's borders if it hadn't been located north of the Tropic of Cancer, unlike Hawaii...

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hawaii-not-in-nato/

11margd
Edited: Jul 3, 2024, 8:32 am

Trump’s Plan for NATO Is Emerging.
Michael Hirsh | 07/02/2024

Trump advisers envision a ‘radical reorientation’ in which Washington takes a back seat to Europe — and cuts a deal with Putin over Ukraine...

...Trump continues to be coy about any details for Europe and NATO. However, as part of his campaign’s “Agenda 47” platform, Trump said in a video posted in March that “we have to finish the process we began under my administration of fundamentally reevaluating NATO’s purpose and NATO’s mission.” Trump also recently told Nigel Farage, his far-right British supporter, that the U.S. will “100 percent” remain in NATO under his leadership as long as European countries “play fair.”...

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/02/nato-second-trump-term-0016451...
_________________________________________

Tristan Snell @TristanSnell | 9:48 AM · Jul 2, 2024
Lawyer, legal commentator, fighter for democracy. Prosecuted Trump University @ NY AG. Commentator, MSNBC. Creator of book/podcast/newsletter TAKING DOWN TRUMP.

TWO FULL DAYS.
That’s how long Trump’s plane was parked next to a Russian Embassy plane, all by themselves.
WHY ISN’T THE MEDIA ASKING ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS?

Photo (https://x.com/TristanSnell/status/1808135657912455174/photo/1)

12margd
Mar 11, 2025, 9:46 am

Maybe it will change when tariffs drop, but I was surprised to see King of Canada (Charles) ~ extending invite to Trump, I assume to ensure good treatment of UK. Give him credit: Charles did welcome Zelensky after his scurrilous treatment in Oval Office.

LETTERS: Canada’s lonely battle in the face of Trump threats
10 March 2025

Readers respond to an editorial on the US president’s malign strategy against its neighbour

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/10/canadas-lonely-battle-in-the-face-...

13margd
Feb 13, 5:35 am

NATO shake-up sees US ousted from 2 warfighting-level commands
Tim Martin | February 10, 2026

... The US will hand over charge of Joint Force Command Norfolk to the United Kingdom and relinquish leadership of Joint Force Command Naples to Italy, a statement from the alliance said. The statement also noted that Joint Force Command Brunssum will now be led by Germany and Poland on a rotational format

...“As a result, all three Joint Force Commands (four star commands), which lead at the operational level in crisis and conflict, will be led by Europeans,” added the statement.

The alliance stressed that the US will keep hold of the Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) post, currently occupied by Gen. Alexus G. Grynkewich. Additionally, Washington is “to lead all three theater component commands, newly taking up responsibility for Allied Maritime Command, and maintaining leadership of Allied Land Command and Allied Air Command.”

The sweeping changes are set to be gradually implemented over the “coming years,” and mark a “shift to more fairly share responsibility within NATO,” according to the alliance, but they come amid a troubling period for the 32-nation collective, with questions surrounding its future...

https://breakingdefense.com/2026/02/nato-shake-up-sees-us-ousted-from-2-warfight...

14margd
Mar 6, 5:00 am

In a conversation with Donald Trump, President Zelensky stated, “Either Ukraine will have nuclear weapons, or NATO. For the time being, we are choosing NATO.”

“Which nuclear states have suffered? No one, except Ukraine. Who gave up nuclear weapons? Everyone? No, only Ukraine. Who is fighting today? Ukraine,” he told Trump.

(1:40) https://x.com/astraiaintel/status/2028468608108560794

- Astraia Intel @astraiaintel | 8:52 AM · Mar 2, 2026
-----------------------------------------

LordBlvck @LBlvck73240: I hope he told him how many nuclear weapons Ukraine gave up. Nobody fucks with North Korea and they only have around 20-30 nuclear missiles.
Ukraine ha(d) the 3rd largest stockpile in the world and gave it up for absolutely nothing.

15John5918
Edited: Mar 6, 5:15 am

>14 margd: Who gave up nuclear weapons? Everyone? No, only Ukraine

No, not only Ukraine; South Africa also gave up its nuclear weapons. One can only hope that more nations will give up their nuclear weapons as Ukraine and South Africa did.

16bnielsen
Mar 6, 6:37 am

>15 John5918: Sweden decided not to go for making nuclear weapons somewhere around 1965. They were pretty close to be able to make them at that time.

17margd
Mar 6, 9:05 am

>15 John5918: One can hope that more nations will give up their nuclear weapons, but I suspect they are noting that Ukraine and Iran are being hammered, and North Korea is not.

18John5918
Mar 6, 9:25 am

>17 margd:

Indeed, but of the 194 nations in the world I think only nine are known to have nuclear weapons and of the other 185 most are not being attacked by anyone.

192wonderY
Apr 12, 5:01 pm

Viktor Orbán ousted after 16 years in power as Hungarian opposition heads for election landslide

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c2d8zw2d3rkt

Record numbers turned out for an election which was seen as pivotal to the future of Hungary and Europe, and which delivers a blow to Orbán's close allies Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump
Magyar, a former Orbán ally who became his fiercest critic, has promised closer ties to the EU and an anti-corruption agenda

20krolik
Apr 14, 3:43 am

>19 2wonderY:

I'm glad Orbán's out, but Magyar was in his camp till 2024. But maybe he's a smarter opportunist, angling for the EU to unblock funding.

21margd
Apr 24, 5:33 am

Exclusive: Pentagon email floats suspending Spain from NATO, other steps over Iran rift, source says
Phil Stewart | April 24, 2026

"Summary
- Pentagon email explores ways to hold NATO allies accountable after Iran war rift, US official says
- Options include suspending Spain from NATO, reviewing UK claim to the Falklands - US official
- Proposals designed to decrease European allies' 'sense of entitlement' - US official
Trump has threatened to pull US out of 76-year-old alliance

WASHINGTON, April 24 (Reuters) - An internal Pentagon email outlines options for the United States to punish NATO allies it believes ​failed to support U.S. operations in the war with Iran, including suspending Spain from the alliance and reviewing the U.S. position on Britain's claim to the Falkland Islands, a U.S. ‌official told Reuters.

The policy options are detailed in a note expressing frustration at some allies' perceived reluctance or refusal to grant the United States access, basing and overflight rights - known as ABO - for the Iran war, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to describe the email."

https://www.reuters.com/world/pentagon-email-floats-suspending-spain-nato-other-...

22margd
Apr 25, 6:15 am

Trump Plots Stunning Insult to King Charles on Eve of Visit
Leigh Kimmins | April 24, 2026

"... a leaked Pentagon memo ... suggests Trump’s administration could re-evaluate whether it believes Britain should retain the Falkland Islands, a self-governing British Overseas Territory in the South Atlantic, where King Charles is head of state.

... The move, which the Pentagon has not ruled out, is designed as a response to British Prime Minister Keir Starmer’s refusal to help with Trump’s war in Iran. Earlier this month, Starmer, the head of the left-wing Labour Party, said the U.K. would not help enforce Trump’s blockade of the Strait of Hormuz.

Since the war kicked off on February 28 {2026}, Starmer has repeatedly refused to get involved. ..."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-plots-stunning-insult-king-160209076.h...

23John5918
Edited: Apr 29, 2:56 am

King Charles praises Nato and urges defence of Ukraine in key speech during Trump visit (Guardian)

King Charles has extolled the importance of Britain’s “special relationship” with the US in a speech to Congress that made pointed reference to the importance of Nato, the defence of Ukraine and the climate crisis. In a speech that will be read as a veiled plea to Donald Trump to return to the US’s traditional European alliances and restore his country’s role as a defender of liberal values, Charles said: “America’s words carry weight and meaning, as they have since independence. The actions of this great nation matter even more”...


Five takeaways from the King's historic address to Congress (BBC)

Quoting former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, the King spoke of an Atlantic partnership and noted – not for the first time among America's European allies – that the only time Nato mobilised in defence of one of its member-states was after the 9/11 terror attacks by al-Qaeda...


America's special relationship 'probably Israel', says UK ambassador to US (BBC)

The UK's ambassador to the US has said the only country that has a "special relationship" with the United States is "probably Israel"...


Given President Trump's rhetoric that NATO is not pulling its weight, it's an interesting observation that the only time in history that NATO has ever mobilised in defence of one of its members was to support the USA.

24margd
Edited: May 19, 8:12 am

Hmm, is Pentagon pause of US-Cdn military board
- on behalf of hegemons v middle powers? (Carney's DAVOS speech)
- to further Trump's dominance of western hemisphere
- to pressure Canada's choice of military equipment, e.g., 88 Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter jets v European models?
- to influence NAFTA 2 review (July 1, 2026)?

Pentagon pauses Canada joint military board, pointing to Carney remarks
Colin Meyn | 05/18/26

"... “A strong Canada that prioritizes hard power over rhetoric benefits us all. Unfortunately, Canada has failed to make credible progress on its defense commitments {margd: as with fentanyl, a lie}. DoW is pausing the Permanent Joint Board on Defense to reassess how this forum benefits shared North American defense,” Elbridge Colby, under secretary of Defense for policy, said in a post on the social platform X, using an alternate acronym for the Department of Defense.

“We can no longer avoid the gaps between rhetoric and reality. Real powers must sustain our rhetoric with shared defense and security responsibilities,” Colby added, along with a link to Carney’s January address in Davos.

In that address, Carney sounded a warning about the risks of relying on global “hegemons” and called on middle powers to take a new approach to projecting strength ..."

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5883148-canada-defense-cooperation-trump-carn...
-------------------------------------------

Interesting, Churchill regarded creation of this Board as a US attempt to split the Commonwealth. Cdn PM Mackenzie King regarded it as shoring up NS shore against Germany, allowing Canada to be even more helpful to Britain in WW2. As with today's announcement, its creation came at a time of shifting power?

John Ivison: 'Dangerous politics': Trump suspends joint defence board with Canada
John Ivison | May 18, 2026

'This is politically motivated and fits perfectly into the ongoing tactics of the current administration to undermine Canada in as many ways as possible'

The moment when Canada moved from Britain’s orbit into America’s can be dated precisely to Aug. 17, 1940 ... Canadian prime minister William Mackenzie King and U.S. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed the Ogdensburg Agreement that defined the principle of the joint defence of North America.

The agreement, drafted in pencil and without consultation with either cabinet, established the Permanent Joint Board of Defence that has been in place ever since. Or at least it was in place until Monday ..."

National Post, a conservative cdn newspaper, via https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/john-ivison-dangerous-politics-trump-suspe...

25margd
May 19, 8:34 am

U.S. Pressure Turns Canada’s F-35 Review Into a Fight Over Sovereignty

"... Replacing the Royal Canadian Air Force’s elderly CF-18 fleet with 88 Lockheed Martin F-35As was the initial plan.

Way back in 2022, the F-35 was selected as the most logical option for Canada’s NATO obligations, defense needs, and interoperability with the North American Aerospace Defense (NORAD) command and Washington.

The deal remains under review, and costs have still continued to climb, delivery timelines have been questioned, and the whole issue has become far more strained since President Donald Trump re-entered the White House.

This is not just a debate about aircraft, but also a broader test of how much military independence Canada can realistically claim while remaining so closely tied to Washington ..."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/canada-is-asking-a-question-no-us-ally-has-...
-------------------------------------

No, there’s no ‘kill switch’: Pentagon tries to reassure international F-35 partners
Lee Ferran and Michael Marrow | March 18, 2025

"The clarification comes after two American allies {Portugal and Canada} said they were publicly reevaluating their future fighter needs amid tensions with Washington.

... Discussion of a potential kill switch emerged earlier this month in European news reports, in the wake of President Donald Trump’s decision to pause military aid to Ukraine. Foreign officials denied the idea at the time, but concern appeared to stem more generally from the fact that the technologically driven F-35 is dependent on rolling updates from the US, especially for the plane’s complex software, as well as logistics support. The F-35 program, for which American aerospace giant Lockheed Martin is the prime contractor, includes 19 international partners or customers.

“{It} isn’t an electronic kill switch. The US also cannot remotely take control of the F-35,” Stacie Pettyjohn, the director of the defense program at the Center for a New American Security, told Breaking Defense. “But by severing maintenance support, shipments of spare parts, and cutting foreign F-35s off from U.S. computer networks, the aircraft would quickly be hobbled.

“Without these software updates, F-35s could fly, but would be much more likely to be shot down by enemy air defenses. Also without U.S. maintainers and spare parts, it would be difficult to keep the aircraft flying for long, as it is an incredibly complex weapons system,” she said ..."

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/03/no-theres-no-kill-switch-pentagon-tries-to-r...
---------------------------------------------------

Allies Rethink F-35 over Trump’s "Kill Switch" | Vantage with Palki Sharma | N18G
Mar 28, 2025 (7:03)

U.S. allies are rethinking their F-35 fighter jet purchases amid concerns over Trump's "kill switch" rumours. Over 1,000 F-35s are in operation across 20 countries, but geopolitical uncertainty raises doubts. Portugal, Canada, and Germany are reconsidering cancelling their purchases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZJzvFcTLFA

26margd
May 26, 3:21 am

Ukrainian Drone Operators Defeated NATO Combat Group During Joint Exercises
Dmytro Shumlianskyi | February 13, 2026

During the Hedgehog 2025 exercises in May 2025, Ukrainian drone operators defeated a combined combat group of several thousand NATO troops, including British and Estonian soldiers, who were attempting to carry out a mechanized attack ... The Wall Street Journal.

The Hedgehog 2025 exercises brought together more than 16,000 troops from 12 NATO countries, who trained alongside Ukrainian drone operators, including military personnel temporarily seconded from the front lines. They simulated a ‘contested and congested’ battlefield with various types of drones.

... During the exercises, the Ukrainian military used Delta, a modern Ukrainian battlefield management system. It collects intelligence in real time, uses artificial intelligence to analyze large amounts of information, identifies targets, and coordinates strikes between command and units. This ensures a fast ‘chain of destruction.’

... Overall, the results for NATO forces were ‘terrible,’ said Aivar Hanniotti, coordinator of unmanned aerial systems for the Estonian Defense League, who led a unit of about 100 ‘simulated enemy’ troops, including Estonian and Ukrainian military personnel. Overall, the ‘opponent’ forces “were able to destroy two battalions in a day,” so that “within the scope of the exercise, they effectively lost their combat capability.” Meanwhile, NATO units “didn’t even get to our drone operators.”

According to Sten Reiman, former commander of the Estonian Military Intelligence Centre, who helped bring Ukrainian drone experts to Hedgehog, ... Ukraine can contribute to pan-European security. According to him, the results of these exercises came as a ‘shock’ to military leaders and personnel.

As a reminder, at the end of January 2026, it became known that during NATO’s annual winter exercises — Joint Viking — in northern Norway in 2025, American troops ‘encountered difficulties.’ The organizers of the exercises were forced to ask Finnish reservists, who were playing the role of the enemy, to go easier on the Americans ...

https://militarnyi.com/en/news/ukrainian-drone-operators-defeated-nato-combat-gr...