The Next Pope

So—a big question—what are your feelings about the next Pope?

1. What do you want in a new Pope?
2. Have you been following the various papabile? Any preferences?

Some fodder:

A list from NYT https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/21/world/europe/next-pope-francis-candidates.htm...

A list from Our Sunday Visitor / Detroit Catholic: https://www.detroitcatholic.com/news/meet-the-papabile-12-cardinals-who-could-be...

A list from AP https://apnews.com/article/next-pope-contenders-list-101d68d61be2401a85310e34b45...

A list from NCR https://www.ncronline.org/news/who-will-be-next-pope-inside-race-succeed-francis

A list from US Catholic https://uscatholic.org/articles/202503/the-12-cardinals-who-might-succeed-pope-f...

John Allen at Crux has been doing a "Papabile" of the day, as he did last time. So far he's done:
*Besungu https://cruxnow.com/papal-transition/2025/04/papabile-of-the-day-cardinal-fridol...
*Aveline https://cruxnow.com/papal-transition/2025/04/papabile-of-the-day-cardinal-jean-m...
*Pizzaballa https://cruxnow.com/papal-transition/2025/04/papabile-of-the-day-cardinal-pierba...
*Erdo https://cruxnow.com/papal-transition/2025/04/papabile-of-the-day-cardinal-peter-...
*Zuppi https://cruxnow.com/papal-transition/2025/04/papabile-of-the-day-cardinal-matteo...
*Parolin https://cruxnow.com/papal-transition/2025/04/papabile-of-the-day-cardinal-pietro...

NYT on Tagle https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/29/world/asia/luis-tagle-asian-pope.html

Telegraph on Tagle https://www.yahoo.com/news/could-succeed-pope-francis-eight-083611778.html?gucco...

My few thoughts:

1. I want someone outgoing, loving, kind and avuncular. Pizzaballa or Arborelius strike me as smart and with-it, but they're not going to inspire love like Francis or JP2 did. They'd be more like Benedict—a man to be respected, but not loved.

When it comes to "issues," I think the next Pope needs to move decisively against the traditionalists and end the old mass. It's been more than 60 years now. The council was called in part to reform the mass, they met and issued a Constitution on it, explaining why it had to be reformed and how. Top bishops and experts met to reform the mass and the Pope approved the new, reformed mass! After all this time, we should retire the mass the council wanted reformed. We shouldn't celebrate superseded forms of the mass, especially when they have become a locus of dissent and schism.

2. A few thoughts on people:

*Tagle may be the "Asian Pope Francis," and in line with much of waht I want to see happen in the church, but I don't respect his silence during the Duterte regime and its killings. As the most important Bishop of an intensely Catholic country, he had real power. He didn't use it.
*Trads online are pulling for various unrealistic candidates. I can't see a conclave in which 80% of the Cardinals were picked by Francis turning around and electing Erdo—conservative and far too close to the Trumpian authoritarian Orban—let alone their fever-dream candidates, Burke, Sarah and Mueller. I don't know if any of the African cardinals, including Besungu, can surmount their stance on gays in the church and the implicit rejection of Francis to get 2/3.
*Pizzaballa appeals in many ways, but he's something of a blank slate and cypher when it comes to the hot-button issues of the Francis papacy. I don't want to see Francis' legacy rejected.
*I can't imagine Parolin. He represents continuity in the sense of governance, but that was never Francis' strong suit. He represents no continuity when it comes to charisma. He's a diplomat, and shouldn't try to be what's nearly the opposite of that.
*Arborelius might be interesting if he really does have a finger on the pulse of secular society. I'd love to see a Pope who knows secularism from the inside, and is both appreciative of what's good outside the church and engages with it, while also cultivating the unique attraction of faith.

The most fun pick would be Mykola Bychok, the Australian Ukrainian Catholic who's 44. He's on the cusp, but we could call him the first Millennial Pope, and his eastern outfits are the best.

Also fun: John Allen's "Papabile of the Day" from 2013 for Bergoglio https://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2013/03_04/2013_03_03_Allen_Papabileof...

Thanks, Tim, for starting this thread. I'm not very au fait with papabile, but I'm hearing Parolin and Tagle mentioned a lot. The centre of gravity of the Church is now in the Global South so there's a lot of expectation that the pope should come from these young and vibrant churches, which gives Tagle and others a boost, but nevertheless the Church is universal and so the likes of Parolin should not automatically be dismissed. Here in Africa there's a lot of interest in an African pope. Turkson and Sarah are both mentioned, mainly I think because both have had a high profile rather than that they have any real chance. Sarah would be a disaster, Turkson would perhaps be ok. He has a reasaonable record from his time heading the Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development, and I have met him in that context. But I would draw attention to Cardinal Fridolin Ambongo Besungu OFM. He's not as well known as the other two internationally, but he is the president of SECAM, the Symposium of Episcopal Conferences of Africa and Madagascar, and has done well in his own troubled country. I was impressed at his diplomatic handling of the controversy over blessings a year or so ago. Ambongo gathered the views of the African bishops then went personally to Rome to meet the Holy Father face to face, express their disagreement with some aspects of that document, and come up with a joint statement which both the Vatican and SECAM could agree on. While I really think the whole controversy was misplaced and a close reading of the original document reveals that it did not say what some people thought it said, nevertheless it was a healthy sign of bishops fostering unity with the universal Church even over a topic where there was some disagreement, in contrast to some US and other bishops who foster division and near-schism, as you refer to over the issue of the antecedent rite of the mass. However Ambongo is only 65; do we want a pope who might last thirty years?

As for the qualities needed in the next pope and the key issues, I pretty much agree with what you wrote. I would add pastoral and merciful, and also synodal in his approach - I think in most parts of the world, and particularly in Africa, synodality has taken root and is unstoppable. It shouldn't have to be said that we need someone committed to the spirit of Vatican II, as one would assume that all Catholics and certainly all bishops would be so, but sadly there are some in the USA who want to turn the calendar back to pre-Vatican II days. I've been in touch with the two cardinals whom I'm quite close to personally to offer them my prayers and I've simply said, "Choose a good one for us!"

Okay, what's up with the "Episcopal Conferences of Africa and Madagascar"? Why mention Madagascar separately? Is it because Madagascar is linguistically and culturally half Polynesian? Did it used to be lumped in with South Asia or something? Why are we separating them?

>5 timspalding:

No idea. I suppose Madagascar is separate from continental Africa but is part of the same bishops' conference group because it's the nearest land mass?

The papal succession – the servant of the servants of god (The Tablet)

The response to Pope Francis’ death, in St Peter’s Square and across the world, can be regarded as a definitive endorsement of his papacy, an expression of the sensus fidelium which the Second Vatican Council rescued from oblivion as a guiding principle in Catholic life... The new Pope will have to rescue the status of Vatican II from the campaign of denigration aimed at it from the right wing. But ultimately the new Pope’s role will be to point not to himself nor to the institutional Church, but to Christ, whose servants he is the humble servant of, and to assert that the imitation of Christ is still viable in the modern world – not just for him or indeed for Francis, but for everyone.

Trads are saying that the turnout for Francis has been low. I have no opinion. And I wouldn't be caught dead in a crush crowd trying to get half a mile from a funeral for a dead Pope. I had that experience trying to see the Pope in Philadelphia; it was a nightmare.

I would like to go to his tomb when I'm next in Rome, though.

Cardinals at a crossroads: While some want to continue Francis’ reforms, others want a different kind of pope (CNN)

Now, as 133 voting members of the College of Cardinals prepare for the conclave, the closed-doors process to elect Francis’ successor, they face a weighty choice: Build on the late pope’s reforms and vision, or slow things down and embark on a course correction...

A thoughtful article, although reading the whole thing it seems to lean more heavily towards the former than the latter.

"Unity is not made by Pope”: Morocco-based Cardinal Elector Weighs In On New Papacy and Unity, Emphasizes Collaboration (ACI Africa)

Just days before the conclave begins, Spanish Cardinal Cristobal López Romero, Archbishop of Rabat (Morocco), assured ACI Prensa that unity in the Catholic Church depends not only on the Pope, but on all Catholics. "Unity isn't created by the Pope, it's created by all of us. He is there as a sign and center of unity, but it's up to each of us whether we join or not," the cardinal emphasized when asked about the challenge of strengthening unity among Catholics and communion within the Church in the face of the new pontificate. The 72-year-old cardinal, one of the 133 cardinals who will participate in the election of the new Pontiff, stressed that, although he does not clearly perceive a lack of unity, if there were one, "it would not be due to or thanks to the Pope." In this context, he clarified that "the problem is not the disunity among us, but the distance we feel from Christ himself. What happens is that we are separated because we are far from Him," he added. For the archbishop of the Moroccan capital, this unity "must exist because Jesus, before dying, prayed that we may all be one." Therefore, he said it's not just about being united, "but about being one, which is much stronger than being united," something that depends "on each one of us. If I separate, it won't be the Pope's fault." For this reason, the cardinal invited Catholics to "make the effort to feel deeply united to Christ," since "to the extent that each and every one of us is united to Christ, we will also be united to one another"...

I love that quote, "If I separate, it won't be the Pope's fault." Something for those who foment division to reflect and pray about.

Rumours, rock-star cardinals and street cleaning: Rome gets ready for conclave (Guardian)

Papal electors gossip in bars and restaurants and try to avoid journalists seeking clues to Pope Francis’s successor...

Conclave author says papal selection is like The Traitors (BBC)

Harris says that, when piecing together the process of the conclave, he realised he had "stumbled on a treasure trove". "I think that the conclave is a rather brilliant device for finding the right sort of person who can command the respect of the church." "It's spiritual and human and political drama all woven into one," he says. "A conclave is as dramatic as the reading of a will. It's that level of natural drama"...

Pope Francis’ Successor Should Be “full of fire for kingdom of Christ, spreading the gospel": Nigeria’s Cardinal Arinze (ACI Africa)

Cardinal Francis Arinze has said that the Church needs “a pope who is full of fire for the kingdom of Christ.” In an interview with EWTN earlier this year, the 92-year-old cardinal reflected on the qualities needed in the next pope, offered wisdom to younger cardinals who will enter their first conclave, and spoke of the challenges facing the Church today. “We want a pope who is full of fire for the kingdom of Christ,” the Nigerian cardinal said. “A pope who is there spreading the Gospel. … A pope through whom people will believe”... a witness to Christ, a pope whose “life is powerful.” “The biggest challenge for the Church is to convince people to accept Christ and live according to his teaching and example,” he said. “Easy to say, difficult to do. But that is what the Church is for. The Church is to evangelize”... “Realize that we are in God’s hands,” he said. “And that the Church is not made by me or by the pope but by Christ. If the Church had not been founded by Christ, it would have fallen to pieces long ago. But because Christ founded the Church, it will stand”...

A number of the articles I'm reading point out that with so many new cardinals, many of them have never had the chance to meet and really don't know each other. That echoes a conversation I had with a nuncio a couple of years back, who expressed the same concerns.

Cardinals choosing the next pope have been offered a dossier on candidates – with a subtext (CNN)

Titled “The College of Cardinals Report,” it offers profiles on around 40 papal candidates, including a breakdown on where they stand on topics such as same-sex blessings, ordaining female deacons and the church’s teaching on contraception. The subtext: Choose a pope who will take the church in a different direction to Pope Francis – whose progressive reforms angered some conservatives. The College of Cardinals report is freely available online but has also been produced as a large format book. One retired cardinal, not eligible to take part in conclave, told CNN he had received a hard copy. The project has been led by two Catholic journalists, Edward Pentin, who is from Britain, and Diane Montagna, from the United States – both of whose work appears on traditionalist and conservative Catholic news sites. Montagna has been handing the book to cardinals entering and leaving the pre-conclave meetings, Reuters reported... church lawyers have told CNN that the report is far from impartial and is an attempt to influence the conclave in an anti-Francis direction. For example, it describes Cardinal Mario Grech, the Maltese prelate who has been tasked with overseeing a major reform process in the Roman Catholic Church, as “controversial,” while it heaps praise on US Cardinal Raymond Burke, a prominent critic of Francis... The report was compiled in association with Sophia Institute Press, a traditionalist-leaning publishing house based in New Hampshire, and Cardinalis, a magazine based in Versailles, France. Sophia Institute Press publishes the radically anti-Francis “Crisis Magazine” and in 2019 published the book “Infiltration,” which claims that in the 19th century, a group of “Modernists and Marxists” hatched a plan to “subvert the Catholic Church from within.” Meanwhile, Cardinalis regularly features articles on prominent conservative cardinals... Well-funded conservative Catholic groups are among the would-be influencers...

The divides behind the scenes in the Vatican ahead of the conclave (BBC)

While in recent days there appears to have been a growing coalescence around the idea that Francis's work should be built on, some of his critics remain far from convinced. So might there be enough of them to sway the vote as the Church attempts to reconcile the different outlooks and realities it faces around the globe?...

Interesting snippet on Sky News this morning that the first vote took longer than usual because many of the cardinals don't speak Latin or Italian so translations had to be done. As we see more and more cardinals from the global Church this is likely to be an ongoing issue. Due to colonial history most of them will speak at least one international language such as English, French or Spanish, but why would they know Italian or Latin unless they had done some of their studies in Rome? Maybe future conclaves will need to find a way of doing simultaneous translation without compromising confidentiality.

I was in a meeting in Rome a few years ago which included a Japanese bishop who spoke none of the major international languages. Fortunately the meeting also included an English-speaking Japanese nun who was able to discreetly translate for him. In South Sudan I have facilitated meetings with hundreds of participants where translations had to be done between no less than six languages - English, Arabic and four local languages. We had no simultaneous translation facilities, so multilingualists (is that a word?) amongst the participants themselves took turns to translate as we went along. There were enough people who knew more than one language in the crowd to shout down any translator who wasn't up to scratch or who mistranslated. It meant though that a five minute presentation took thirty minutes, but who's in a hurry?

Congratulations to the US Christians here on the first ever American pope. He's a missionary, which is a good sign in my view. Someone from the Global North who has spent much of his life in the Global South. But I confess I know very little about him.

>15 John5918: His first speech as pope was impressive. I am pleased that the new Bishop of Rome was able to speak to his new diocese in Italian.

>1 timspalding:

1. I want an Orthodox pope who defends and teaches the faith passed down through the ages.

2. Cardinal Sarah.

Okay, coming late to this, so we'll see how this pans out with the new pope.

Hopefully he will halt the criminalisation and persecution of the TLM, and bring peace and unity to the Church.

>17 LesMiserables:

And I… hope he will end all exemptions for the TLM, and bring peace and unity to a church in which a small minority stand against the mass of the church and an Ecumenical Council.

I guess we can agree on the goal :)

>18 timspalding: You must be referring to Sedevacantists. If so I agree.

>18 timspalding: And we can agree that the Ecumenical Council you refer to is Vatican II. (A non-dogmatic, non-infallible, pastoral Council.)

>20 LesMiserables: A non-dogmatic, non-infallible, pastoral Council

It almost sounds as if you are setting "dogmatic" and "pastoral" in opposition to each other, whereas in fact they are complementary. Two of the documents (Lumen gentium and Dei verbum) are described as dogmatic constitutions. While the Council did not define any new dogmas, nevertheless it affirmed existing dogmas and presented them in a new way, a pastoral way. Both John XIII in opening the Council and Paul VI in closing it talked repeatedly about both the pastoral and doctrinal aspects of the Council, which wouldn't have made sense if one were setting pastoral against doctrine.

But regardless of that it was nevertheless an authentic and authoritative expression of the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church, the Holy Father teaching in unison with all the bishops of the world, in which all the resolutions passed virtually unanimously. It was broadly accepted by the faithful, sensus fidei, with the exception of a very small number of dissidents in a handful of countries, including the Sedevacantists whom you mention, as well as the likes of SSPX and those who wish to revert to the antecedent rite of the mass which has been superseded.

>21 John5918: It almost sounds as if you are setting "dogmatic" and "pastoral" in opposition to each other,

I'm not.

While the Council did not define any new dogmas, nevertheless...

Ha ha. :-)

it affirmed existing dogmas and presented them in a new way, a pastoral way.

No, no, no. We can discuss these if you want...

Religious liberty
Ecumenism
Collegiality

...in which all the resolutions passed virtually unanimously.

Slight of hand. That translates as not unanimously.

with the exception of a very small number of dissidents

Otherwise called the Faithful to the Orthodox teachings of the Church. Those 'dissidents' following the timeless Rite (you disparaged it as the - antecedent rite of the mass which has been superseded. were vindicated by Pope Benedict XVI no less.

I think you will find that much of what the previous Pope promulgated will quietly drop away. We can talk through some example if you like.

NB: Labelling is dangerous: see Canon 751 (Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.)

as well as the likes of SSPX

Sorry, your timeline is out. They did not exist at the time of the Second Vatican Council.

Cheers. I think we can both agree that we have joy and a cautious optimism that Pope Leo XIV is on the Chair.

>22 LesMiserables:

Thanks for this. I'm a Catholic, "Faithful to the Orthodox teachings of the Church" to use your words. As such I accept the teachings of the Ordinary Magisterium as expressed in Vatican II. But while many dissidents claim that they accept Vatican II but reject the way it has been implemented, you appear actually to be rejecting the teaching of the Council itself; correct me if I'm wrong. If you don't accept Vatican II, then we just have to agree to disagree.

I don't think the use of the term "antecedent rite" is disparaging. I learned it from a cardinal here in Africa who corrected me when I used the term Extraordinary Form in a conversation with him. I think it aptly describes a rite which has been superseded, just as many other rites have been superseded during the long history of the Church. Mass is no longer celebrated in Aramaic in an upper room, and we don't hear much about the Celtic, Gallic, Sarum or Dunelm rites these days. Benedict XVI, God bless him, did indeed hold out an olive branch to dissidents, but it was regarded by some of them as a victory rather than a generous concession in an attempt at reconciliation, and was weaponised by some as part of their anti-Vatican II agenda. I'm not implying that this includes you.

Yes, near-unanimous does mean not unanimous, but if one takes Sacrosanctum concilium as a representative example, it was agreed by 2,147 with 4 against. Of the two dogmatic constitutions, Dei verbum was passed by 2,344 to 6 and Lumen gentium by 2,151 to 5. That's about as near to unanimous as one can get. Of the cases you mention, Unitatis redintegratio (ecumenism) was passed by 2,137 to 11 and Dignitatis humanae (religious liberty) by 2,308 to 70. I'm not sure to which document you refer under the heading collegiality.

Yes, you're right about the timing of SSPX, but I wasn't suggesting that they existed at the time of Vatican II, merely that they are amongst the small groups of dissidents who don't accept Vatican II. Their founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, was himself a Council Father who attended all four sessions of Vatican II and who later rejected the Council of which he was part.

>23 John5918: As such I accept the teachings of the Ordinary Magisterium as expressed in Vatican II.

What about the teachings of the Ordinary Magisterium as expressed prior to Vatican II?

you appear actually to be rejecting the teaching of the Council itself

No. Only the errors.

I don't think the use of the term "antecedent rite" is disparaging. I learned it from a cardinal here in Africa who corrected me when I used the term Extraordinary Form in a conversation with him.

Both antecedent and extraordinary terminology are problematic. Best just to say the Roman Rite for the TLM, and New Mass for the Novus Ordo.

That's about as near to unanimous as one can get.

But not unanimous still. And thank The Lord for being precise with the Truth. St Athanasius - no doubt you would call him a 'dissident' - refused to collude or bow to the Arian Heretics whilst just about all prelates followed the heresy. Read history John.

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, was himself a Council Father who attended all four sessions of Vatican II and who later rejected the Council of which he was part.

No he didn't. He rejected only the errors. He accepted Vatican II as an Ecumenical Council.

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Again I am very and sincerely worried about your use of the divisive word 'Dissident'.

For its part, schism is—again, in principle—less grave than heresy, for it does not require the rejection of any dogma. The Greek term schisma means division or dissension, and the crime of schism requires one of two things: (1) refusal of submission to the pope or (2) refusal of communion with those who are subject to him. Either way, the schismatic has divided himself from the body of the Church.

You should read this brother. https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/schism-heresy-and-apostasy

Repeating that some of your fellow Catholics to be dissident is, I would argue (2) above.

Dissident is formed from 2 Latin roots: 'dis' = apart + 'sidere' = sitting ... therefore dissident literally means sitting apart.

So if you are determined to call some of your brothers dissidents, you are determined to say they sit apart from the Church, and therefore refusing communion with them, even though they are not excommunicated.

Because as you know, schism through (2) above automatically triggers excommunication.

Words matter.

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>24 LesMiserables: What about the teachings of the Ordinary Magisterium as expressed prior to Vatican II?

Yes, of course I also accept them. But they are not and never have been static, and they have been developed and deepened througout the history of the Church, including by Vatican II.

Only the errors

And who is competent to determine "errors" in doctrine? A handful of people in the USA, France and UK? Or a Council of the Holy Father sitting with all the bishops of the world, to say nothing of the sensus fidei, again apart from that small group of dissenters in the the Global North?

Both antecedent and extraordinary terminology are problematic. Best just to say the Roman Rite for the TLM, and New Mass for the Novus Ordo.

My understanding is that all our rites, including what you refer to as the Novus Ordo, are Roman rites, in the sense that they are not Eastern, Orthodox, Chaldean or other non-Roman rites. Best just to accept that the antecedent rite is no longer used, not because it wasn't valid for its time but because the Church Fathers, by 2,147 to 4, resolved that its essential elements should remain but unnecessary accretions should be removed, giving us a reformed Roman Rite. If by TLM you mean "Tridentine Latin Mass", then it is now antecedent and is no longer used. If you mean "The Latin Mass" (I have seen both used in print), the Latin Mass is freely available anytime, celebrated according to the ordinary rite of the Church, what you call the Novus Ordo. There is a daily Latin mass in both St Peter's in Rome and Westminster Cathedral in London, and no doubt many other places.

dissident... 'dis' = apart + 'sidere' = sitting ... therefore dissident literally means sitting apart

The definitions I can find of the word "dissident" are a person who opposes, strongly disagrees with, publicly criticises and/or actively challenges established religious or political systems and policies, and/or who believes, teaches or advocates something opposed to accepted beliefs. As for the Latin roots of the word, I see a small group of Catholics rejecting the liturgy of the Church and literally wanting to "sit apart" in a separate mass from the rest of the Catholic world. That seems to me aptly to describe dissent by the handful of Catholics whom we are discussing. Lex orandi, lex credendi. As for being divisive, once again I quote Cardinal Cristobal López Romero, Archbishop of Rabat, "Unity isn't created by the Pope, it's created by all of us. He is there as a sign and centre of unity, but it's up to each of us whether we join or not... If I separate, it won't be the Pope's fault." It's up to me whether I remain in unity with my pope and my Church, or whether I (literally) "sit apart" in a divisive and dissenting manner.