1grifgon
Curious for what proposals you think will end up in the top five, whether or not you personally voted for it.
My biggest hope is for a variety in the top five, so that we can weigh the different "paths" that the Press could take.
My biggest hope is for a variety in the top five, so that we can weigh the different "paths" that the Press could take.
2Tuna_Melon
>1 grifgon: ...well the text would already be set for a printing of the By-laws if it wins and we'd like to use the PDF that was circulated, so surely that has it going for it.
--- --- ---
In all seriousness though, since 'The Fifth Head of Cerberus' is already getting chatter on the other thread, with very positive words being tossed around by multiple members, I think that would be my guess for one title making the top 5. (Other that my own proposal, that's also the one I'm currently feeling most excited about at this stage of the process.)
I don't have 4 other guesses yet. Interesting thread topic. I feel like I'm betting on horse racing a little by guessing.
--- --- ---
In all seriousness though, since 'The Fifth Head of Cerberus' is already getting chatter on the other thread, with very positive words being tossed around by multiple members, I think that would be my guess for one title making the top 5. (Other that my own proposal, that's also the one I'm currently feeling most excited about at this stage of the process.)
I don't have 4 other guesses yet. Interesting thread topic. I feel like I'm betting on horse racing a little by guessing.
3lemonjelleaux
The Fifth Head of Cerberus does sound cool, but isn't it still in copyright? I'm hesitant to vote for those without a good reason why getting the rights wouldn't be difficult or expensive. I don't think I'm alone in that worry either, based on comments in the other thread. Unless the allure makes people decide it's worth the risk.
4gmacaree
I have no idea, although I'd be surprised if mine did. It's interesting that towards the end of Sinuhe, folks here seemed more or less agreed on picking a work out of copyright, but when proposals fly and voting happens ...
5Shotcaller
>2 Tuna_Melon: Fifth Head would be a tremendous choice. The press would be doing itself a great honor by printing it.
Lemonjelleaux mentioned that it’s not public domain, which is true. But Wolfe’s had dozens of small and fine press releases, so I doubt it’d be all that expensive or time-consuming.
Lemonjelleaux mentioned that it’s not public domain, which is true. But Wolfe’s had dozens of small and fine press releases, so I doubt it’d be all that expensive or time-consuming.
6Shotcaller
I would guess that the Hesiod is top five. Maybe Śakuntalā, too.
7Shotcaller
This message has been deleted by its author.
8Shadekeep
Sounds like I'm in the minority about The Fifth Head of Cerberus this time, but I was also against the originally prevailing pick, Flowers for Algernon, last time. Both are well-known works in copyright that you could expect another press to eventually do (like Centipede or even Folio Society). And in fact Algernon was done by another press in the interim (CTP).
Personally I much prefer CP to bring out something that no other press would be likely to do. That's one of the strengths of private press and it enriches the reading landscape.
Personally I much prefer CP to bring out something that no other press would be likely to do. That's one of the strengths of private press and it enriches the reading landscape.
9Shotcaller
>8 Shadekeep: Maybe? I’m not sure the book’s all that well-known. That said, I’d love to see a nice edition by anyone.
10Taishan
I’ll take a stab at it
1) Heart of a dog - it’s already starting off with 2 votes at least. 100th anniversary, underrepresented genre, and an important work.
2) The Fortress Unvanquishable, Save for Sacnoth - classic early fantasy seems to be in, and this short story would lend itself well to this format.
3) Hesiod - important Ancient Greek writing, not too long, and out of copyright translations available
4) Youth - out of copyright short story from a well known writer. Wasn’t something I thought I’d vote for, but the pitch sold me on it completely. Well done.
5) A hero of our time
1) Heart of a dog - it’s already starting off with 2 votes at least. 100th anniversary, underrepresented genre, and an important work.
2) The Fortress Unvanquishable, Save for Sacnoth - classic early fantasy seems to be in, and this short story would lend itself well to this format.
3) Hesiod - important Ancient Greek writing, not too long, and out of copyright translations available
4) Youth - out of copyright short story from a well known writer. Wasn’t something I thought I’d vote for, but the pitch sold me on it completely. Well done.
5) A hero of our time
11consensuspress
Fun thread. I'm not gonna say anything right now, but I am enjoying reading this.
12Shadekeep
>9 Shotcaller: I'd say it's probably the best known Gene Wolfe work alongside his series of The Book of the New Sun titles (which was indeed done by Folio Society). It may not be as well-known to folks outside sci-fi as the works of Asimov or Clarke, but within the genre it's certainly a respected work, probably on par in terms of fame and acclaim as Clement's Mission of Gravity or Haldeman's Forever War. All of which are great books I'd love to see in a quality edition, just perhaps by someone other than CP. It's my personal inclination that CP should be a champion of works you won't find elsewhere, but that's just me, and if the consensus is that it should be more popularly oriented, that's pretty much the point of the exercise.
13Shotcaller
>12 Shadekeep: I’d agree that CP should champion books you can’t find elsewhere (by which I mean, I suppose, that you can’t find in a small or fine press edition elsewhere). And Fifth Head fits that bill for now—maybe forever, maybe not.
14Shadekeep
>13 Shotcaller: I suppose, but then about 99.x% of literature also fits that criterion. Not trying to be argumentative, just clarifying my position. I do think it's instructive to revisit the first round of CP proposals, where as I mentioned Algernon was the first top pick. Because of other considerations it was removed from contention, and literally before CP's own book was out there was a fine press edition of Algernon from another press.
It feels to me like there is a kind of factional delineation here (though certainly not every member falls into one or the other neatly). One group sees CP as a way of getting a fine press edition of a book they really wish some fine press would do but hasn't gotten around to. Another group sees CP as a way of getting a fine press edition of a book no other press would ever be likely to do. There's every chance that if Suntup or Centipede or Folio Society is listening to our discussion and they see the attention Cerberus is getting, they might consider putting it out themselves. None of them would ever have done Sinuhe, and therein lies the distinction.
Once again, this is one person's opinion (mine). If the consensus is otherwise, so be it.
It feels to me like there is a kind of factional delineation here (though certainly not every member falls into one or the other neatly). One group sees CP as a way of getting a fine press edition of a book they really wish some fine press would do but hasn't gotten around to. Another group sees CP as a way of getting a fine press edition of a book no other press would ever be likely to do. There's every chance that if Suntup or Centipede or Folio Society is listening to our discussion and they see the attention Cerberus is getting, they might consider putting it out themselves. None of them would ever have done Sinuhe, and therein lies the distinction.
Once again, this is one person's opinion (mine). If the consensus is otherwise, so be it.
15Shotcaller
>14 Shadekeep: No, I don’t take it as argumentative at all. I appreciate getting insight into your hope for the press.
I might refine your second group even further; presumably they’d also want that book to be one they’d want to read, or read again.
Not to get pedantic about it. At the end of the day, I’m hopeful we’ll both be happy with the chosen title.
I might refine your second group even further; presumably they’d also want that book to be one they’d want to read, or read again.
Not to get pedantic about it. At the end of the day, I’m hopeful we’ll both be happy with the chosen title.
16Shadekeep
>15 Shotcaller: Oh definitely, something that can be re-read elevates it quite a lot in my estimation! And I do agree that the more obscure choices are likely to not appeal to some folks, at least as an unknown quantity, so they may not want to take that gamble and prefer to go with a sure thing instead.
17jveezer
I wouldn't be surprised if Jerad at Centipede gets around to The Fifth Head of Cerberus at some point. He does plenty of Wolfe. I've suggested that he do so and would be completely satisfied with his treatment. And I have a first edition. So not something I'm interested in for CP, mostly because of being in copyright.
18consensuspress
So far, the top 5 remain unchanged, they just shift around within the group....
Anybody else want to have a go?
Anybody else want to have a go?
19lemonjelleaux
If I'm guessing top 5, in no particular order:
- The Revolt of the Animal
- A Hero of Our Time by Mikhail
- The Fifth Head of Cerberus
- In Praise of Shadows
- Hesiod
But I don't honestly have much to base the list on outside of the couple of threads here, and obviously some opinions get shared more loudly and more often than others.
- The Revolt of the Animal
- A Hero of Our Time by Mikhail
- The Fifth Head of Cerberus
- In Praise of Shadows
- Hesiod
But I don't honestly have much to base the list on outside of the couple of threads here, and obviously some opinions get shared more loudly and more often than others.
20elladan0891
>4 gmacaree: It's interesting that towards the end of Sinuhe, folks here seemed more or less agreed on picking a work out of copyright, but when proposals fly...
Well, we got at least 40 new members, and it seems many came over from the Fine Press forum, which nowadays hosts many fans of Suntup, Curious King, and the likes. I'm not surprised we're seeing multiple SciFi works still in copyright.
>8 Shadekeep: Sounds like I'm in the minority about The Fifth Head of Cerberus this time
Hey, there are at least two of us, and perhaps we're not even a minority. We'll find out soon.
>8 Shadekeep:Personally I much prefer CP to bring out something that no other press would be likely to do
Hear, hear! Couldn't agree more! I think I wrote it before in the thread discussing our personal voting criteria, but most SciFi/fantasy/horror is an automatic hard pass for me, particularly because there is a proliferation of Fine Presses doing that stuff. Centipede and Subterranean have been there for quite a while, joined by a host of new presses over the past few years - all the Suntups, Curious Kings, and others. FS was taken over by genre and mass market. So many presses are doing that stuff already; I don't want CP to be just another press filling gaps in these genres.
And copyright is another 'no' for me. I think people are starting to forget the Algernon rights saga. In brief, after being bounced around a few different entities and hearing mostly crickets for over 3.5 months, another press reached out to Griffin to tell him that they are doing Algernon, and that it took them 9 months (!!!) to secure rights. My apologies, gentlemen, but I don't feel like embarking on that path again when there are plenty of other options. I don't want to wait another 3 years for the next book.
I do make an exception for cases when only the translation is in copyright, especially when published by one of University presses, as these rights seem to be easier (and cheaper) to obtain.
Well, we got at least 40 new members, and it seems many came over from the Fine Press forum, which nowadays hosts many fans of Suntup, Curious King, and the likes. I'm not surprised we're seeing multiple SciFi works still in copyright.
>8 Shadekeep: Sounds like I'm in the minority about The Fifth Head of Cerberus this time
Hey, there are at least two of us, and perhaps we're not even a minority. We'll find out soon.
>8 Shadekeep:Personally I much prefer CP to bring out something that no other press would be likely to do
Hear, hear! Couldn't agree more! I think I wrote it before in the thread discussing our personal voting criteria, but most SciFi/fantasy/horror is an automatic hard pass for me, particularly because there is a proliferation of Fine Presses doing that stuff. Centipede and Subterranean have been there for quite a while, joined by a host of new presses over the past few years - all the Suntups, Curious Kings, and others. FS was taken over by genre and mass market. So many presses are doing that stuff already; I don't want CP to be just another press filling gaps in these genres.
And copyright is another 'no' for me. I think people are starting to forget the Algernon rights saga. In brief, after being bounced around a few different entities and hearing mostly crickets for over 3.5 months, another press reached out to Griffin to tell him that they are doing Algernon, and that it took them 9 months (!!!) to secure rights. My apologies, gentlemen, but I don't feel like embarking on that path again when there are plenty of other options. I don't want to wait another 3 years for the next book.
I do make an exception for cases when only the translation is in copyright, especially when published by one of University presses, as these rights seem to be easier (and cheaper) to obtain.
21grifgon
>20 elladan0891:
After seeing the proposals myself for the first time the other day, I noticed a few things that might be useful for the members to know regarding copyrights.
I'm tempted not to say anything, but since it is useful information, I'd actually rather just share what I know and let the members decide for themselves with more information, rather than wait to throw cold water later in the process.
1. The lawyer who oversees the Willa Cather estate (the My Ántonia proposal) is very, very picky and likely to say no due to Consensus Press' lack of a long track record. Edit: but that doesn't matter because it's public domain!
2. One of the The Heart of a Dog proposals states that an English translation is in the public domain. I don't think that is true. So far as I can tell, all English translations are under copyright.
3. The Nabokov people (the Laughter in the Dark proposal) are responsive but very, very slow.
That's not to say that members shouldn't vote for the above, but rather that, with any of them, we might be going horns-first into the thicket. These are also just the copyright cases that I know something about personally, because they overlap with my own interests. Other copyright cases may present similar challenges – there's no knowing until we send inquiries.
After seeing the proposals myself for the first time the other day, I noticed a few things that might be useful for the members to know regarding copyrights.
I'm tempted not to say anything, but since it is useful information, I'd actually rather just share what I know and let the members decide for themselves with more information, rather than wait to throw cold water later in the process.
1. The lawyer who oversees the Willa Cather estate (the My Ántonia proposal) is very, very picky and likely to say no due to Consensus Press' lack of a long track record. Edit: but that doesn't matter because it's public domain!
2. One of the The Heart of a Dog proposals states that an English translation is in the public domain. I don't think that is true. So far as I can tell, all English translations are under copyright.
3. The Nabokov people (the Laughter in the Dark proposal) are responsive but very, very slow.
That's not to say that members shouldn't vote for the above, but rather that, with any of them, we might be going horns-first into the thicket. These are also just the copyright cases that I know something about personally, because they overlap with my own interests. Other copyright cases may present similar challenges – there's no knowing until we send inquiries.
22Taishan
That’s good info to be aware of, I was wondering about “The Heart of a Dog”. Searching online only listed copyright translations, but I voted based on the one proposal stating there was a public domain translation.
23A.Nobody
>21 grifgon: Google steered me wrong on the Heart of a Dog English translation matter, so I retract my claim in my proposal.
24Shotcaller
>21 grifgon: Bummer about My Ántonia. I voted for both proposals.
25grifgon
>23 A.Nobody: Absolutely no worries – it's surprising just how unclear copyrights can be.
>24 Shotcaller: We could certainly give the Cather estate a try, who knows!
The way I think members should think about copyright is this: Add a six month handicap to any proposal that involves copyrights. If you are still enthusiastic knowing that there will be six months of sitting around doing nothing at the beginning of the process, then vote for it!
Copyrights don't complicate things because of cost. They're all relatively cheap – at most, ten percent. They complicate things because of uncertainty and the long waits. Commercial fine presses put out copyrighted material all the time, which might give the impression that it's straightforward. What isn't advertised is how many copyright inquiries went unanswered, or rejected, and just how long a given project took to clear.
>24 Shotcaller: We could certainly give the Cather estate a try, who knows!
The way I think members should think about copyright is this: Add a six month handicap to any proposal that involves copyrights. If you are still enthusiastic knowing that there will be six months of sitting around doing nothing at the beginning of the process, then vote for it!
Copyrights don't complicate things because of cost. They're all relatively cheap – at most, ten percent. They complicate things because of uncertainty and the long waits. Commercial fine presses put out copyrighted material all the time, which might give the impression that it's straightforward. What isn't advertised is how many copyright inquiries went unanswered, or rejected, and just how long a given project took to clear.
26abgreens
I am so enjoying all these discussions. I wasn’t part of the first round, so I don’t know if this has ever been discussed, but in thinking of CP as a group that might be able to continue for a time, I start thinking about the identity of a press.
I realize that there’s already a unique established identity as being a group run press. But I’d be interested to know if others have an idea about the press’ identity.
Like Elladan, I am partial to creating identity of a press that releases work that other presses would not. I did vote for many proposals of well-known authors because in this first round I voted for anything that looked interesting to me. But if I were thinking as a final choice, I know I’m going to be partial to work that I suspect won’t be printed by the other presses currently putting out work.
There’s just something so special about bringing to light something that his languished in the dark
I realize that there’s already a unique established identity as being a group run press. But I’d be interested to know if others have an idea about the press’ identity.
Like Elladan, I am partial to creating identity of a press that releases work that other presses would not. I did vote for many proposals of well-known authors because in this first round I voted for anything that looked interesting to me. But if I were thinking as a final choice, I know I’m going to be partial to work that I suspect won’t be printed by the other presses currently putting out work.
There’s just something so special about bringing to light something that his languished in the dark
27NathanOv
>26 abgreens: I’ll say that the “identity” of the press is one of the reasons I hope we steer away from another ancient text this time around. While that would be a great niche for a press to be in, it’s not the core concept of Consensus Press, so I’d hate for us to be locked into a pattern of works from a specific era so early on.
I personally wouldn’t hate to see the press go after an in-copyright text and succeed in either this or the third edition just to prove that that’s within the press’s reach.
I personally wouldn’t hate to see the press go after an in-copyright text and succeed in either this or the third edition just to prove that that’s within the press’s reach.
28Pendrainllwyn
Copyright concerns have been well articulated and if any of the top 5 are in copyright I expect further warnings will be forthcoming. If, despite that, the winning proposal is in copyright I wonder if one option members could consider at the time would be to make the winning proposal book #3 and the best supported book not in copyright, book #2 (as long as it's in the top 3 - the runner up may also be in copyright)? This would require working on two books simultaneously but would help mitigate a long delay to book #2. Just a thought.
29grifgon
>28 Pendrainllwyn: Depending on the scope of the projects, I could get behind this.
As you say, imagine that the top two proposals are a long work in copyright and a short work out of copyright. We could go ahead with shortie at once, and Richard could simultaneously pursue copyrights and quotes on longie. If/when the copyright on longie clears and we know what the price would be, it could be presented to the membership for a simple up-or-down vote as #3.
I think, though, that members might be in for a rude awakening when faced with the price of a novel-length work in such a low edition size, and it would have to be an exceptionally unifying choice for a majority of members to vote in favor of adopting it.
As you say, imagine that the top two proposals are a long work in copyright and a short work out of copyright. We could go ahead with shortie at once, and Richard could simultaneously pursue copyrights and quotes on longie. If/when the copyright on longie clears and we know what the price would be, it could be presented to the membership for a simple up-or-down vote as #3.
I think, though, that members might be in for a rude awakening when faced with the price of a novel-length work in such a low edition size, and it would have to be an exceptionally unifying choice for a majority of members to vote in favor of adopting it.
30grifgon
>27 NathanOv: I agree completely. I want the Members to elect something that's (a) totally feasible, (b) totally interesting, and (c) totally different than Sinuhe.
31EdmundRodriguez
>28 Pendrainllwyn:
I would support this approach. I don't mind the delay associated with copyrighted works, particularly if we don't have all our eggs in one basket (i.e. if we're already cracking on with a second book regardless).
I would support this approach. I don't mind the delay associated with copyrighted works, particularly if we don't have all our eggs in one basket (i.e. if we're already cracking on with a second book regardless).
32GardenOfForkingPaths
>21 grifgon: What's the deal with My Ántonia being under copyright even though it's 100+ years since it was first published?
33kermaier
I’m sad to see that Basho wasn’t re-proposed this time! If I’d known the original proposer wasn’t going to, I’d have used my submission. Oh well….
34kermaier
>30 grifgon: Amen
35abysswalker
>32 GardenOfForkingPaths: it should be in the public domain. Some of her later work is not, which I'm guessing Griffin was thinking about.
36GardenOfForkingPaths
>35 abysswalker: Yes, I thought the publication date of 1918 should be okay for public domain. Perhaps @grifgon can confirm just in case there are any exceptions we're not aware of.
37elladan0891
Right, it should be in the public domain.
The only problem I have with the proposal is that it would be too expensive to produce due to its length and our relatively small membership. If CP had even a third of the LEC membership, economies of scale would really kick in and I would totally vote for the Cather proposal. But the reality is that we're not in a position to take on longer works that Thornwillow or Arion can.
Considering a Fine Press format - larger, easy-on-the-eyes font and typesetting, pleasant typographical layout with decent margins, etc. - 67,140 words will probably go over 300 pages. Per Griffin, that would be over $20K just in lockup and polymer plates, not including ink and printing. We have only 119 members and will likely drop below a hundred buyers when it comes to financing the project. That would be more than $200 per person in just setup fees, before we even get to paper, printing, and binding materials and labor. Plus design/typesetting, shipping stuff around, etc. etc. A full novel means we're firmly in the neighborhood of $1K. And perhaps some are totally fine with that - everyone's different. But I prefer to spend a grand either on multiple books or a rare splurge for something really very handmade and special.
Caveat - I'm not a printer myself, this is just my rough understanding of the process. @grifgon - please chime in if I'm way off anywhere.
The only problem I have with the proposal is that it would be too expensive to produce due to its length and our relatively small membership. If CP had even a third of the LEC membership, economies of scale would really kick in and I would totally vote for the Cather proposal. But the reality is that we're not in a position to take on longer works that Thornwillow or Arion can.
Considering a Fine Press format - larger, easy-on-the-eyes font and typesetting, pleasant typographical layout with decent margins, etc. - 67,140 words will probably go over 300 pages. Per Griffin, that would be over $20K just in lockup and polymer plates, not including ink and printing. We have only 119 members and will likely drop below a hundred buyers when it comes to financing the project. That would be more than $200 per person in just setup fees, before we even get to paper, printing, and binding materials and labor. Plus design/typesetting, shipping stuff around, etc. etc. A full novel means we're firmly in the neighborhood of $1K. And perhaps some are totally fine with that - everyone's different. But I prefer to spend a grand either on multiple books or a rare splurge for something really very handmade and special.
Caveat - I'm not a printer myself, this is just my rough understanding of the process. @grifgon - please chime in if I'm way off anywhere.
38elladan0891
>10 Taishan: 4) Youth - out of copyright short story from a well known writer
I'd be surprised if it's among the top proposals. First, there is a nice LEC that is very easy and cheap to obtain. One can get it for $50 pretty much any time, even less if not in a rush. My Fine copy was $20 a few years ago.
https://booksandvines.com/2014/09/16/youth-typhoon-and-the-end-of-the-tether-by-...
Or one can splurge on this beautiful Allen Press edition: https://booksandvines.com/2014/01/30/youth-by-joseph-conrad-allen-press-1959/
I'd be surprised if it's among the top proposals. First, there is a nice LEC that is very easy and cheap to obtain. One can get it for $50 pretty much any time, even less if not in a rush. My Fine copy was $20 a few years ago.
https://booksandvines.com/2014/09/16/youth-typhoon-and-the-end-of-the-tether-by-...
Or one can splurge on this beautiful Allen Press edition: https://booksandvines.com/2014/01/30/youth-by-joseph-conrad-allen-press-1959/
40grifgon
>37 elladan0891: Yep, that's all correct. There's no knowing until we see quotes, but it's fairly easy to see the writing on the wall.
41Taishan
>38 elladan0891: thanks, those are very nice editions I was unaware of. Shocking how cheap so many of these nice LEC books go for. Made today with those feature, I would think that’s a $500+ book.
42kermaier
>38 elladan0891: I don’t love the LEC “Youth”, even if it is cheap; and it’s quite hard to even find a copy of the Allen Press edition to spend $1500 on. I wouldn’t be unhappy if we end up publishing it.
43elladan0891
>41 Taishan: Absolutely!
44jveezer
The '80s LEC of A Lost Lady is very nice for the price you can find it for. It's not Death Comes for the Archbishop but it's Cather, if that's what your after. And the FS did a nice edition of the Archbishop. I haven't read My Antonia so I don't have an literary opinion for it.
I was worried about copyright on that one, as there are some strange outliers in copyright. I seem to remember that Harvard was somehow inappropriately keeping most of Emily Dickinson's poetry out of the public domain, which led Arion Press to only include public domain poems in their (still excellent) edition.
I was worried about copyright on that one, as there are some strange outliers in copyright. I seem to remember that Harvard was somehow inappropriately keeping most of Emily Dickinson's poetry out of the public domain, which led Arion Press to only include public domain poems in their (still excellent) edition.
45grifgon
>44 jveezer: Yes. I find Harvard's copyright claim so ridiculous that I'm fine with violating it. They can sue me if they want.
>42 kermaier: I have all but two Allen Press books... Youth being one of them. If it pops up on the secondary market and one of you is tempted to buy it, DON'T! I'll cry!
>42 kermaier: I have all but two Allen Press books... Youth being one of them. If it pops up on the secondary market and one of you is tempted to buy it, DON'T! I'll cry!
46kermaier
>45 grifgon: Wow, all but two from the Allens?! I’m momentarily catatonic with envy! The ones I still most want (in order) are Youth, The Bacchae and The Fall.
Which other one are you missing?
Which other one are you missing?
47grifgon
>46 kermaier: Romeo and Juliet, of course!
Before too long I'm going to write an essay on the Allens and – get this – print it on handmade Allen Press watermarked paper. A friend discovered the Allens' own mould and deckle and is restoring it to make paper again.
All of the Allens' books are remarkable examples of private presswork. Some are finer than others, but every single one radiates with the personality and joy of its makers. If any books have heartbeats that you can hear from across the room, its theirs.
Before too long I'm going to write an essay on the Allens and – get this – print it on handmade Allen Press watermarked paper. A friend discovered the Allens' own mould and deckle and is restoring it to make paper again.
All of the Allens' books are remarkable examples of private presswork. Some are finer than others, but every single one radiates with the personality and joy of its makers. If any books have heartbeats that you can hear from across the room, its theirs.
48Shotcaller
Another top five guess: Life of St. Guthlac.
49kermaier
>47 grifgon: A friend discovered the Allens' own mould and deckle and is restoring it to make paper again.
🤯
You’re absolutely right: the Allens did private press as right as I can imagine.
My Allen Press collection is small — at some point a few years ago, inventory fell off a cliff and prices skyrocketed, leaving my leisurely acquisition pace in the dust. 😞
I do have R&J, though! (I used to have 2 copies, but sold one some 5-6 years ago.)
🤯
You’re absolutely right: the Allens did private press as right as I can imagine.
My Allen Press collection is small — at some point a few years ago, inventory fell off a cliff and prices skyrocketed, leaving my leisurely acquisition pace in the dust. 😞
I do have R&J, though! (I used to have 2 copies, but sold one some 5-6 years ago.)
50elladan0891
>42 kermaier: I'm sure there will be votes for it. My point was that there should be plenty of people who are either perfectly happy with the LEC or the Allen Press edition (the lucky ones) or think that even if it's possible to come up with a design more to their liking, it's better to do something new. I'd be surprised if it advances to the next round.
51Shadekeep
I'm not aware of all that has (and has not) been done already in the fine press world, so I appreciate it when folks mention those titles which have. I would find it useful to have the same done when we reach the second round of voting, as no doubt there are others I am unaware of. It's not an ironclad rule of mine, but my preference is strongly for something which no fine press has yet done.
52SyllicSpell
I'd love for Hesiod, Life of St. Guthlac, Śakuntalā and God's Hounds to be in the top 5, but that's pure wishlisting on my part.
I'm guessing the membership will be looking for something modern after Sinuhe.
I'm guessing the membership will be looking for something modern after Sinuhe.
54P.Casimir
>52 SyllicSpell: Your wishlist is not dissimilar to mine. The majority of my "Yes" votes were for premodern titles, but perhaps that is in part because I was not here for Sinuhe.
55Shadekeep
>52 SyllicSpell: Our lists have significant overlap. I also chose some more obscure recent works that are promising, like The Land of Little Rain and In Praise of Shadows. And I rather guiltily admit to also voting for The Upper Berth in spite of the plethora of weird fiction releases in fine press at the moment, simply because I really like the story.
56Shotcaller
>52 SyllicSpell: Don’t give up hope! The first three you list are in my top five, too.
57lemonjelleaux
>55 Shadekeep: I think it's interesting to hear what other people give as their preference compared to what they voted for. Not to say anything is wrong no matter how you or anyone decides what to do. Like you've said in this thread that your preference is strongly for things unlikely to be published by other fine presses, but then gone for 'The Upper Berth' and 'The Land of Little Rain'. Noting yourself that there are many presses publishing weird fiction currently, and 'The Land of Little Rain' is dead center Book Club of California.
58Shadekeep
>57 lemonjelleaux: 'The Land of Little Rain' is dead center Book Club of California
Ah, another I was unaware of. Anyway, yes, I certainly gave Yes votes to those which fell within my previously stated guidelines. I merely further salted my voting with other titles I would be comfortable with, as I am aware my tastes are not conventional and most of those who garnered my primary votes are unlikely to advance to the second round.
I still strongly prefer a work that has not been previously published in fine press, but I am also a realist. Having seen some of the very populist suggestions amongst the proposals I decide to mediate my desires with practical terms, and at least hopefully help weigh the voting in a somewhat desirable direction, even if my own ultimate preferences be outvoted.
Ah, another I was unaware of. Anyway, yes, I certainly gave Yes votes to those which fell within my previously stated guidelines. I merely further salted my voting with other titles I would be comfortable with, as I am aware my tastes are not conventional and most of those who garnered my primary votes are unlikely to advance to the second round.
I still strongly prefer a work that has not been previously published in fine press, but I am also a realist. Having seen some of the very populist suggestions amongst the proposals I decide to mediate my desires with practical terms, and at least hopefully help weigh the voting in a somewhat desirable direction, even if my own ultimate preferences be outvoted.
59Shotcaller
>57 lemonjelleaux: Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!
60Shadekeep
>59 Shotcaller: Ha! No combativeness on my part, merely elucidation. I don't see any cognitive dissonance between my stated preferences and my voting, but can see how others might. So I thought I'd elaborate. In a perfect world I would have voted perfectly, but in our imperfect world the perfect is rightly said to often be the enemy of the good. Thus I went with the good.
61Shotcaller
>60 Shadekeep: Smart approach.
62grifgon
My big curiosity is whether we end up with a slate of "big projects" at the top like last time. We certainly can pursue a big project, but when it comes to the second round I'd hope to see some diversity in our options. After all, an interesting but unknown title at $200 might be just as appealing to many as a well-loved titled at $1,000.
The biggest quirk in our election process is that the first round votes cost nothing, unlike the second round votes.
In the first round, we're tourists picking our favorite houses in town. In the second round, we're homebuyers.
The biggest quirk in our election process is that the first round votes cost nothing, unlike the second round votes.
In the first round, we're tourists picking our favorite houses in town. In the second round, we're homebuyers.
63Shadekeep
>62 grifgon: Well stated. I wondered last time, and again this time, if perhaps a limited number of votes (say a maximum of 10) in the first round might produce better results. It would at least hold people to those they most want. But there's always the chance it would be too exclusionary as well.
64Didici
>33 kermaier: Basho was me last time, and I ended up feeling like, if it had been the project selected, I don’t know whether I would have been able the shepherd it through nearly as successfully as Richard (and everyone else) did Sinuhe in the face of all the logistical complications. So I went in a different direction this time, for something rather shorter and for which I envision a more “conventional” fine press treatment.
Certainly consider any moral claim I might have had to it released, and count on my vote if I see it again!
Certainly consider any moral claim I might have had to it released, and count on my vote if I see it again!
65grifgon
Just for clarity, while the proposer is certainly welcome to be involved in the actual "realization" of their vision, they aren't required to be involved! Once your proposal is elected, you can be as involved or uninvolved as you please!
The fact that Richard become so heavily involved (and eventually became the press Director) is a wonderful thing but not the rule!
The fact that Richard become so heavily involved (and eventually became the press Director) is a wonderful thing but not the rule!
66jveezer
>57 lemonjelleaux: Dead center Book Club of CA "type" of title you'd expect them to do, or they've actually done The Land of Little Rain? I'm not aware of it if they have and a quick search turned nothing up.
67lemonjelleaux
>66 jveezer: Dead center the type of title I'd expect them to do, I don't believe they have. My comment was in response to people mentioning wanting titles that were different from what's available or unlikely to be published by other fine presses.
I think broadly I heard a lot about people wanting something different, but then proposing a lot of things that I consider very similar to what is mostly published by fine presses already. Ancient texts and classics, lauded science fiction and fantasy, and influential weird fiction are what I see most commonly put out already. If you want to say that an individual title has never gotten a fine press treatment and so that counts, then sure that opens up most of the written word, but that was not the impression I got from the conversation.
And again, I'm not bothered by folks voting for things that are popular. I'm just interested in comparing the conversation to the voting results. Part of the fun for me.
I think broadly I heard a lot about people wanting something different, but then proposing a lot of things that I consider very similar to what is mostly published by fine presses already. Ancient texts and classics, lauded science fiction and fantasy, and influential weird fiction are what I see most commonly put out already. If you want to say that an individual title has never gotten a fine press treatment and so that counts, then sure that opens up most of the written word, but that was not the impression I got from the conversation.
And again, I'm not bothered by folks voting for things that are popular. I'm just interested in comparing the conversation to the voting results. Part of the fun for me.
68abysswalker
>55 Shadekeep: In Praise of Shadows is not my submission, but it is probably my number one choice. I've had it on my list of books I love that have no nice editions since forever. It is perfect for a project like this in so many ways.
69Shadekeep
>67 lemonjelleaux: Well, I did proposed a 17th-century German court transcript as my selection, so I don't think I'm exactly catering to populist tastes. Other suggestions were similarly individualistic and the ones which garnered my most emphatic votes.
>68 abysswalker: Jun'ichirō Tanizaki seems poorly served in English, with most of the stuff I have from him being tolerable paperbacks from minor imprints. If you know of any extant editions you recommend I'd be delighted to hear about them, and I concur that CP would be one place to see him done justice.
>68 abysswalker: Jun'ichirō Tanizaki seems poorly served in English, with most of the stuff I have from him being tolerable paperbacks from minor imprints. If you know of any extant editions you recommend I'd be delighted to hear about them, and I concur that CP would be one place to see him done justice.
70SebRinelli
>69 Shadekeep: you are likely aware of LEC‘s Portrait of Shunkin but just in case. One of my favourite books in my collection reviwed here: https://booksandvines.com/2016/06/27/a-portrait-of-shunkin-by-junichiro-tanizaki...
Seems like I have to read In Praise of Shadows! Any other recommendations for a short work from Tanizaki, Kawabata and Mishima that should get the fine press treatment?
Seems like I have to read In Praise of Shadows! Any other recommendations for a short work from Tanizaki, Kawabata and Mishima that should get the fine press treatment?
71Shadekeep
>70 SebRinelli: Aye, it seems lovely, but a bit rich for my blood alas. Red Roofs from Tanizaki might be a good choice for a short work. I recently picked up the Pushkin Press issue of The Siren's Lament and suspect there's good candidate material there as well. And on the subject of short Japanese works, I would love to see one or more of the Tales of Moonlight and Rain done.
I've also agitated many times for Edogawa Ranpo to be given a fine press take. He seems an even more appealing choice now with the popularity of the macabre and weird in fine presses. Maybe one day.
I've also agitated many times for Edogawa Ranpo to be given a fine press take. He seems an even more appealing choice now with the popularity of the macabre and weird in fine presses. Maybe one day.
72Shotcaller
>71 Shadekeep: Edogawa Ranpo: CP Book Three?
73Pendrainllwyn
>70 SebRinelli: Mishima's Death in Midsummer perhaps.
I would be very happy to see In Praise of Shadows make the top 5. Fingers crossed.
I would be very happy to see In Praise of Shadows make the top 5. Fingers crossed.
74lemonjelleaux
>69 Shadekeep: I didn't mean to come across accusatory. And based on your other comment, maybe there's some room for consideration of a different voting system in the future. Maybe something like ranked choice voting would allow folks to express their stronger preferences rather than hedging on their favorite of the less obscure proposals.
75Shadekeep
>74 lemonjelleaux: Nae worries, I didn't take it as such. Being a Gemini I sometimes hold two seemingly self-contradicting positions at once, so it behooves me to explain. 😊
If the second round goes this time like it did last time it should be ranked choice voting. As you point out that does tend to level the playing field and end up with a choice more people are comfortable with. It was rather interesting seeing the choices bubble up and down as each round of ranking played out.
If the second round goes this time like it did last time it should be ranked choice voting. As you point out that does tend to level the playing field and end up with a choice more people are comfortable with. It was rather interesting seeing the choices bubble up and down as each round of ranking played out.
76bungakusha
>70 SebRinelli: Kawabata…..the obvious choice is Snow Country but the LEC edition of that is sufficiently lovely. Beyond that I would suggest The Old Capital (古都) or Thousand Cranes (千羽鶴). Those are the three works specifically cited when he won the Nobel Prize for Literature.
Tanizaki….I am a huge fan of The Makioka Sisters but that is a doorstop of a book. There are all the short stories translated by Howard Hibbett beyond The Tale of Shunkin.
Another interesting choice might be Masks (女面) by Fumiko Enchi.
Tanizaki….I am a huge fan of The Makioka Sisters but that is a doorstop of a book. There are all the short stories translated by Howard Hibbett beyond The Tale of Shunkin.
Another interesting choice might be Masks (女面) by Fumiko Enchi.
77Shadekeep
>76 bungakusha: For Kawabata I might also suggest The Izu Dancer. I concur both that Snow Country is a solid choice, and probably unnecessary in light of an extant fine edition. The Master of Go was well-written, but there are some undercurrents to it that make it a title I personally am unlikely to revisit.
More than once I've thought some press should tackle Akutagawa's Hell Screen. It really sticks with one.
More than once I've thought some press should tackle Akutagawa's Hell Screen. It really sticks with one.
78elladan0891
>52 SyllicSpell: I'd love for Hesiod, Life of St. Guthlac, Śakuntalā and God's Hounds to be in the top 5, but that's pure wishlisting on my part.
If you're interested in Sakuntala and it doesn't make it, I recommend the 1992 Folio edition unless you already have it. Not Private Press caliber by any means, but it's a really nice book. Brilliantly compiled: it includes Kalidasa's play, the relevant part from the Mahabharata where the story originated, the late 19th-century retelling for children by Abanindranath Tagore (the nephew of Rabindranath), and finally the story told through a series of Pahari paintings with commentary. Bound in blue moire silk, "Sakuntala" stamped in gold in English on the spine and in Sanskrit on the front board; good paper. Can be purchased for peanuts. I paid less than $15 for a Fine copy including shipping and taxes.
ETA: After posting, decided to check if there might be an entry in Dr Carter's Folio Archives, and sure enough it's there:
https://www.librarything.com/topic/315677
If you're interested in Sakuntala and it doesn't make it, I recommend the 1992 Folio edition unless you already have it. Not Private Press caliber by any means, but it's a really nice book. Brilliantly compiled: it includes Kalidasa's play, the relevant part from the Mahabharata where the story originated, the late 19th-century retelling for children by Abanindranath Tagore (the nephew of Rabindranath), and finally the story told through a series of Pahari paintings with commentary. Bound in blue moire silk, "Sakuntala" stamped in gold in English on the spine and in Sanskrit on the front board; good paper. Can be purchased for peanuts. I paid less than $15 for a Fine copy including shipping and taxes.
ETA: After posting, decided to check if there might be an entry in Dr Carter's Folio Archives, and sure enough it's there:
https://www.librarything.com/topic/315677
79SyllicSpell
>78 elladan0891: Thank you. Funnily enough, I'd just received a copy of the FS Śakuntalā before reading your post!
80Shotcaller
Any final guesses in the last day of voting? I think Life of St. Guthlac makes the top five.
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