*Oct 25 2025 | One Art, by Elizabeth Bishop
Original topic subject: Oct 25, 2025 - One Art, by Elizabeth Bishop
Talk The Poetry Collective
Join LibraryThing to post.
1LolaWalser
This poem always raises a muddle of feelings and thoughts in me, much of it conflicting. I am very curious to hear how it strikes other people.
One art (1976)
The art of losing isn’t hard to master;
so many things seem filled with the intent
to be lost that their loss is no disaster.
Lose something every day. Accept the fluster
of lost door keys, the hour badly spent.
The art of losing isn’t hard to master.
Then practice losing farther, losing faster:
places, and names, and where it was you meant
to travel. None of these will bring disaster.
I lost my mother’s watch. And look! my last, or
next-to-last, of three loved houses went.
The art of losing isn’t hard to master.
I lost two cities, lovely ones. And, vaster,
some realms I owned, two rivers, a continent.
I miss them, but it wasn’t a disaster.
—Even losing you (the joking voice, a gesture
I love) I shan’t have lied. It’s evident
the art of losing’s not too hard to master
though it may look like (Write it!) like disaster.
In The Complete Poems, 1927-1979
One art (1976)
The art of losing isn’t hard to master;
so many things seem filled with the intent
to be lost that their loss is no disaster.
Lose something every day. Accept the fluster
of lost door keys, the hour badly spent.
The art of losing isn’t hard to master.
Then practice losing farther, losing faster:
places, and names, and where it was you meant
to travel. None of these will bring disaster.
I lost my mother’s watch. And look! my last, or
next-to-last, of three loved houses went.
The art of losing isn’t hard to master.
I lost two cities, lovely ones. And, vaster,
some realms I owned, two rivers, a continent.
I miss them, but it wasn’t a disaster.
—Even losing you (the joking voice, a gesture
I love) I shan’t have lied. It’s evident
the art of losing’s not too hard to master
though it may look like (Write it!) like disaster.
In The Complete Poems, 1927-1979
2PaulCranswick
>1 LolaWalser: So nice that we have a Villanelle this week and a splendid one too. I have the poem in her final collection Geography III.
I inevitability of loss and how when you "practise" losing often you get better at it and better prepared for it. Very striking how the loss escalates as the poem progresses. Eventually you become so good at losing, you make it an art form.
Good choice!
I inevitability of loss and how when you "practise" losing often you get better at it and better prepared for it. Very striking how the loss escalates as the poem progresses. Eventually you become so good at losing, you make it an art form.
Good choice!
3Interstellar_Octopus
>1 LolaWalser: I first thought this poem was about dementia, thought it ended up going in a different direction.
I find the 'art of losing' quite a curious term that makes the poem quite interesting. Is the art of losing merely getting skilled at forgetting things or leaving things behind, or is it the deeper 'skill' or being unattached to what you lose? It feels a bit sad, a sort of antithesis to the romanticisation of nostalgia, the idea that not getting to attached to anything is better, or at the very least easier, than missing what once was yours. Mind you, the poem's bleak tone makes me feel that the poet does not believe that detachment from loss is a healthy of way of going about things. Such detachment may be responsible for how carelessly the poem's subject seems to lose realms and continents—they didn't care enough to hold onto them, so they were lost.
Also quite like how by placing 'even losing you' after the loss of an entire continent, we get to see the priorities of the poem's subject, and how deeply they cared about the person they lost—I'm pretty sure the subject is lying to themselves when they claim that 'losing you' was not a disaster.
I find the 'art of losing' quite a curious term that makes the poem quite interesting. Is the art of losing merely getting skilled at forgetting things or leaving things behind, or is it the deeper 'skill' or being unattached to what you lose? It feels a bit sad, a sort of antithesis to the romanticisation of nostalgia, the idea that not getting to attached to anything is better, or at the very least easier, than missing what once was yours. Mind you, the poem's bleak tone makes me feel that the poet does not believe that detachment from loss is a healthy of way of going about things. Such detachment may be responsible for how carelessly the poem's subject seems to lose realms and continents—they didn't care enough to hold onto them, so they were lost.
Also quite like how by placing 'even losing you' after the loss of an entire continent, we get to see the priorities of the poem's subject, and how deeply they cared about the person they lost—I'm pretty sure the subject is lying to themselves when they claim that 'losing you' was not a disaster.
4Btodd3
A mix of emotions for me with this one. Loss is hard in the moment, but it can soften with the passage of time. I think it comes down to expectations. We know loss is coming, we shouldn’t be surprised by it, it will hurt in the moment, but over time it will get better. Maybe this is the “art” that is learned here.
5TonjaE
I wonder if the writer implies that losing isn't hard to master once you realise beyond insignificant material things, you don't own anything in the first place to consider its absence a loss...Especially people.
The realisation that all things pass and can't be held on to is the art of loss mastered. What's left is the memory, and that keeps it all bearable. So not a disaster.
Just a thought, I'm probably way off.
Great choice @LolaWalser thank you for sharing.
The realisation that all things pass and can't be held on to is the art of loss mastered. What's left is the memory, and that keeps it all bearable. So not a disaster.
Just a thought, I'm probably way off.
Great choice @LolaWalser thank you for sharing.
6DebiCates
>1 LolaWalser: What a stellar choice! Thank you.
Bishop is a favorite poet of mine and One Art is a long-time favorite poem of all time for me, one that I've memorized because I never want to be without it. (It's lovely recited. Not all poems are.)
The villanelle form here is perfect, the skeleton upon which the muscle of meaning hangs: "one" art builds from the loss of the whimsically mundane ("hour badly spent") to the devastating loss ("a gesture I love"). We all know it, recognize it, that everything personally, ultimately, will be lost. It is the "one art" of life we must master.
The last stanza always hits me hard. That phrase "Write it!" reflects Bishop's own art (poetry), her personal mode of testament but also hints at, to me, that moment when we all must face our losses, even the most difficult ones. It's like that first time we say to someone, "My father died in 1997," when just before we say it we urged ourselves that we must "Say it!"
One of the things I love most about Bishop is she is a great observer, usually with an emotional reserve. Even here, in this poem, we see that it takes her quite a while to get to that wallop of emotion.
For anyone interested, there was a PBS TV series in the 80s, the most excellent Voices and Visions, that covered 13 American poets. Here is the episode on Bishop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scmAltBYsKs
This poem makes a meaningful pairing with the earlier Poetry Collective selection, "Spring and Fall" by Gerard Manley Hopkins https://www.librarything.com/topic/374394#8966689
Again, LolaWalser, thank you for selecting this poem!
Bishop is a favorite poet of mine and One Art is a long-time favorite poem of all time for me, one that I've memorized because I never want to be without it. (It's lovely recited. Not all poems are.)
The villanelle form here is perfect, the skeleton upon which the muscle of meaning hangs: "one" art builds from the loss of the whimsically mundane ("hour badly spent") to the devastating loss ("a gesture I love"). We all know it, recognize it, that everything personally, ultimately, will be lost. It is the "one art" of life we must master.
The last stanza always hits me hard. That phrase "Write it!" reflects Bishop's own art (poetry), her personal mode of testament but also hints at, to me, that moment when we all must face our losses, even the most difficult ones. It's like that first time we say to someone, "My father died in 1997," when just before we say it we urged ourselves that we must "Say it!"
One of the things I love most about Bishop is she is a great observer, usually with an emotional reserve. Even here, in this poem, we see that it takes her quite a while to get to that wallop of emotion.
For anyone interested, there was a PBS TV series in the 80s, the most excellent Voices and Visions, that covered 13 American poets. Here is the episode on Bishop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scmAltBYsKs
This poem makes a meaningful pairing with the earlier Poetry Collective selection, "Spring and Fall" by Gerard Manley Hopkins https://www.librarything.com/topic/374394#8966689
Again, LolaWalser, thank you for selecting this poem!
7AnishaInkspill
>1 LolaWalser: that's a wonderful poem.
8DebiCates
>5 TonjaE: I think you are right about this poem! It is about the transient nature of all things, even people as you say. And we do have to come to terms with the disaster in order to keep living, the one art we all continually must master.
It's not hard...just keep living. (Although, it is hard, it's just there is no other choice, like you say it "can't be held on to.")
It's not hard...just keep living. (Although, it is hard, it's just there is no other choice, like you say it "can't be held on to.")
9DebiCates
>4 Btodd3: I think you are right , Brandon, about expectations being part of this poem. It is an "art" to learn, to incorporate the reality of loss.
10DebiCates
>1 LolaWalser: I look forward to your thoughts about those conflicting feelings.
11DebiCates
>3 Interstellar_Octopus: Thank you for joining in our discussion. Your observation about "even losing you" phrase is dead on. That word "even" being so important. I think you are right, the narrator is still convincing themselves that loss is not a disaster, trying still to incorporate it into the art of losing.
12elenchus
Echoing my appreciation for the selection, @LolaWalser, and same for the many observations above.
I also have conflicting feelings upon reading the poem. After reading through again, and reflecting on the observations above, thoughts that occurred to me and feel ... useful:
What if I separate the sense of loss I feel, from the sense of importance and meaning whatever I lost has for me?
(Is that possible)
Why do I think they must go together, that if I decide I have not lost it, that I am necessarily deciding at the same time it is not important?
(Suspect that pairing is what is behind my resistance.)
Is there a way for me to think of importance and meaning and love for something, that nevertheless isn't something subject to being lost?
(That would be an art, to learn a way of doing that.)
I also have conflicting feelings upon reading the poem. After reading through again, and reflecting on the observations above, thoughts that occurred to me and feel ... useful:
What if I separate the sense of loss I feel, from the sense of importance and meaning whatever I lost has for me?
(Is that possible)
Why do I think they must go together, that if I decide I have not lost it, that I am necessarily deciding at the same time it is not important?
(Suspect that pairing is what is behind my resistance.)
Is there a way for me to think of importance and meaning and love for something, that nevertheless isn't something subject to being lost?
(That would be an art, to learn a way of doing that.)
13LolaWalser
>2 PaulCranswick:
Thank you.
inevitability of loss
Yes, there is resigned fatalism, the "vanity of vanities" feeling over all.
>3 Interstellar_Octopus:
dementia
The first time I read this poem I was a young woman who, at that point, had not experienced the death of anyone close to me, and had a memory like a steel trap. Yesterday (decades later) as I posted it my mind went first to my father who before death rapidly disintegrated mentally, by the end forgetting all of us. (His last words were about the sea, which he saw and gestured at from the balcony: "How beautiful it is... how beautiful.")
I'm pretty sure the subject is lying to themselves when they claim that 'losing you' was not a disaster
I agree. The italicisation of the imperative "write" makes me think the poet hesitated at that moment and had to force herself to repeat the claim that even this loss is "not a disaster".
>4 Btodd3:
Loss is hard in the moment, but it can soften with the passage of time.
This is one of the conflictual points for me. Is this simply what ageing and gaining "wisdom" means? But is it wisdom, or do we become less sensitive, more cynical, less hopeful, less passionate...? Is life worth living at cool temperatures?
>5 TonjaE:
Ah yes, but when even memory is lost...
>6 DebiCates:
Thank you for adding that information. I thought it was likely that people would know the poem but that it's the kind to raise an interesting discussion. Hopefully not too painful. There is something about Bishop's tone that makes me think of that Anglo "stiff upper lip" (even if she tinges it with irony), a habit I secretly like although foreign to my nature. And I like that it cracks in the end, with that, as you say, urging to write/say it -- expressing that some things, some losses, ARE disastrous, even though the words are stating the opposite.
So there we get to the fundamental tension: that between the desire to protect ourselves, through acceptance and resignation of our fate, and the sheer feeling of pain in the moment, lived or re-lived.
Thank you.
inevitability of loss
Yes, there is resigned fatalism, the "vanity of vanities" feeling over all.
>3 Interstellar_Octopus:
dementia
The first time I read this poem I was a young woman who, at that point, had not experienced the death of anyone close to me, and had a memory like a steel trap. Yesterday (decades later) as I posted it my mind went first to my father who before death rapidly disintegrated mentally, by the end forgetting all of us. (His last words were about the sea, which he saw and gestured at from the balcony: "How beautiful it is... how beautiful.")
I'm pretty sure the subject is lying to themselves when they claim that 'losing you' was not a disaster
I agree. The italicisation of the imperative "write" makes me think the poet hesitated at that moment and had to force herself to repeat the claim that even this loss is "not a disaster".
>4 Btodd3:
Loss is hard in the moment, but it can soften with the passage of time.
This is one of the conflictual points for me. Is this simply what ageing and gaining "wisdom" means? But is it wisdom, or do we become less sensitive, more cynical, less hopeful, less passionate...? Is life worth living at cool temperatures?
>5 TonjaE:
Ah yes, but when even memory is lost...
>6 DebiCates:
Thank you for adding that information. I thought it was likely that people would know the poem but that it's the kind to raise an interesting discussion. Hopefully not too painful. There is something about Bishop's tone that makes me think of that Anglo "stiff upper lip" (even if she tinges it with irony), a habit I secretly like although foreign to my nature. And I like that it cracks in the end, with that, as you say, urging to write/say it -- expressing that some things, some losses, ARE disastrous, even though the words are stating the opposite.
So there we get to the fundamental tension: that between the desire to protect ourselves, through acceptance and resignation of our fate, and the sheer feeling of pain in the moment, lived or re-lived.
14LolaWalser
>12 elenchus:
Is there a way for me to think of importance and meaning and love for something, that nevertheless isn't something subject to being lost?
I wondered about this too. I think there is the (objectively true) calculation by which we always lose everything: material possessions, connections, people, friendships, loves, memories, finally life itself.
But what if we ALSO calculated from a different point of view, not the finality, but just the peak of life? Then, human tragedy may be less the shortness of life than outliving our "best" selves.
To paraphrase another famous verse, better to have had something to lose than never to have had anything at all.
Is there a way for me to think of importance and meaning and love for something, that nevertheless isn't something subject to being lost?
I wondered about this too. I think there is the (objectively true) calculation by which we always lose everything: material possessions, connections, people, friendships, loves, memories, finally life itself.
But what if we ALSO calculated from a different point of view, not the finality, but just the peak of life? Then, human tragedy may be less the shortness of life than outliving our "best" selves.
To paraphrase another famous verse, better to have had something to lose than never to have had anything at all.
15DebiCates
>14 LolaWalser: Another way of looking at aging could be a kind of living fully. I think of it as a Zen approach, living in the now. Like your father (I'm so sorry, reading your account about his last words brought literal tears to my eyes, I'm glad he had that experience of beauty), he was living in the moment, almost a return to seeing the sea for the first time, like a child; or seeing it fully with nothing but that day's sea's beauty in his sight and thoughts. I hope you feel it was a final gift for him too.
16GraceCollection
When I was younger, I believed that acknowledging loss, anticipating and even imagining loss, would lighten the load — and prevent a disaster. I have since learned that borrowing grief from the future does not subtract its effects but only multiplies them. Loss may not be hard to master, but it's easier to allow loss to master you, especially if you are practicing it all the time.
Very poignant piece, Lola. Thank you for sharing.
Very poignant piece, Lola. Thank you for sharing.
17AnishaInkspill
I was thinking about this poem all day yesterday - the art of losing - I do love the fact that to lose is considered an art, I think it's a difficult one to master (as >5 TonjaE: mentions) and I can see that if it was mastered how that could be rewarding. >14 LolaWalser: mentions a zen thing, earlier on the year I read a transaltion of ancient Chinese poems in the public domain where there was one that was slightly comical but poignant about a man who lost his house and he was okay with that.
The last line did make me wonder if the speaker was trying to talk themselves into not minding (which >3 Interstellar_Octopus: mentions) the loss but they really did. Losing houses, not just 1 but 3, and cities as well, that feels a bit ouchy especially when they are lovely ones.
And yet, I'm also echosing >16 GraceCollection: in: I have since learned that borrowing grief from the future does not subtract its effects but only multiplies them. so maybe the speaker is not kidding themselves but willing themselves to reach this ideal state that is not easy to achieve as it sounds.
This poem brings up so many questions, a great choice.
and >6 DebiCates: thanks for the link for Voices and Visions's episode of Elizabeth Bishop.
The last line did make me wonder if the speaker was trying to talk themselves into not minding (which >3 Interstellar_Octopus: mentions) the loss but they really did. Losing houses, not just 1 but 3, and cities as well, that feels a bit ouchy especially when they are lovely ones.
And yet, I'm also echosing >16 GraceCollection: in: I have since learned that borrowing grief from the future does not subtract its effects but only multiplies them. so maybe the speaker is not kidding themselves but willing themselves to reach this ideal state that is not easy to achieve as it sounds.
This poem brings up so many questions, a great choice.
and >6 DebiCates: thanks for the link for Voices and Visions's episode of Elizabeth Bishop.
18TonjaE
I bought a new book today, it's called DARBY, LOVE...: (Alive things mum said to me before she died) by Darby Hudson and I just have to share this verse with you here; another perspective on loss. I hope you like it.
Hudson, Darby. Darby, Love . . .: (Alive Things Mom Said to Me Before She Died) (p. 52). (Function). Kindle Edition.
“DARBY, LOVE, I'M LATE BECAUSE I LOST MY CAR KEYS. BUT I WASN'T EVEN FRUSTRATED. IN FACT, I WAS THRILLED! FOR A MOMENT, THERE WAS NO LOGICAL EXPLANATION. IT WAS THE DIVINE MYSTERY OF THE MISSING CAR KEYS, AND THE WORLD IS LACKING IN SMALL MYSTERIES. BUT THEN I FOUND THEM IN MY CAR DOOR, AND IT WAS SADLY BACK TO REALITY AND TURNING UP LATE.”
Hudson, Darby. Darby, Love . . .: (Alive Things Mom Said to Me Before She Died) (p. 52). (Function). Kindle Edition.
19Btodd3
>13 LolaWalser: I think maybe with age we become more accustomed to loss because we have seen more of it. That could lead us to become cynical. But I also believe with age we become more attuned to the beauty that is around us, in the small things, and that provides some counter balance.
20hamlet61
Bishop gives us hope that learning to embrace loss is possible if not inevitable. In my opinion, the structure of the villanelle keeps a very tricky topic from going off the rails.
Then again, some poets never quite make it to the other side:
49
I never lost as much but twice,
And that was in the sod.
Twice have I stood a beggar
Before the door of God!
Angels—twice descending
Reimbursed my store—
Burglar! Banker—Father!
I am poor once more!
--Emily Dickinson
Then again, some poets never quite make it to the other side:
49
I never lost as much but twice,
And that was in the sod.
Twice have I stood a beggar
Before the door of God!
Angels—twice descending
Reimbursed my store—
Burglar! Banker—Father!
I am poor once more!
--Emily Dickinson
21saskia17
>20 hamlet61: I agree that the structure of the villanelle is key. The repetition of the art of losing and the disasters mean that they are not lost, but remain.
22SplendorofDelight
I appreciate the contrast between Bishop's "One Art" and Dickinson's "I never lost as much but twice". Thank you Hamlet61! Bereavement is hard, unpredictable, and each experience is unique.
Reading poetry encourages me to pay attention to the details and beauty in everyday life.
Reading poetry encourages me to pay attention to the details and beauty in everyday life.
23elenchus
>2 PaulCranswick:
>6 DebiCates:
Is there any approach to identifying this as using the villanelle form, other than brute memorisation of syllables per line / lines per stanza / stanzas per poem?
I'm not concerned so much about being able to name a specific form (though that would be a fun party trick). I do think I miss some significance when, for example, I don't recognise a sonnet and don't catch that the one I'm reading might be playing around with the sonnet tradition of romantic love. (Made up that example.) That's the sort of insider knowledge that has long left me believing I'm not as good a reader of verse as I am of essays or novels or short stories.
I've also long assumed the way to remedy this shortcoming is simply to sit down and bruteforce it: look up the various forms, and one by one, memorize their definitions and then read a ton of examples to understand them. And I've concluded I'm not likely to do that, so have reconciled myself with getting out what I can without that understanding.
Curious if others here think either my assumption is mistaken, or my reconciliation is misguided.
>6 DebiCates:
Is there any approach to identifying this as using the villanelle form, other than brute memorisation of syllables per line / lines per stanza / stanzas per poem?
I'm not concerned so much about being able to name a specific form (though that would be a fun party trick). I do think I miss some significance when, for example, I don't recognise a sonnet and don't catch that the one I'm reading might be playing around with the sonnet tradition of romantic love. (Made up that example.) That's the sort of insider knowledge that has long left me believing I'm not as good a reader of verse as I am of essays or novels or short stories.
I've also long assumed the way to remedy this shortcoming is simply to sit down and bruteforce it: look up the various forms, and one by one, memorize their definitions and then read a ton of examples to understand them. And I've concluded I'm not likely to do that, so have reconciled myself with getting out what I can without that understanding.
Curious if others here think either my assumption is mistaken, or my reconciliation is misguided.
24saskia17
>23 elenchus: If you are interested in learning more about forms, I recommend Rhyme's Reason by John Hollander. He probably goes more into detail about some things than it sounds like you are looking for, but he also includes the origins of the forms and gives examples he wrote himself. Here is his example of a villanelle:
This form with two refrains in parallel?
(Just watch the opening and the third line.)
The repetitions build the villanelle.
The subject thus established, it can swell
Across the poet-architect's design:
This form with two refrains in parallel
Must never make them jingle like a bell,
Tuneful but empty, boring and benign;
The repetitions build the villanelle
By moving out beyond the tercet's cell
(Though having two lone rhyme-sounds can confine
This form). With two refrains in parallel
A poem can find its way into a hell
Of ingenuity to redesign
The repetitions. Build the villanelle
Till it has told the tale it has to tell;
Then two refrains will finally intertwine.
This form with two refrains in parallel
The repetitions build: The Villanelle.
The whole text is available via the University of Pennsylvania: https://web.english.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Hollander_Rhyme_s_Reason.pdf
**Which reminds me I don't actually own a copy currently. One to add to my wishlist!
This form with two refrains in parallel?
(Just watch the opening and the third line.)
The repetitions build the villanelle.
The subject thus established, it can swell
Across the poet-architect's design:
This form with two refrains in parallel
Must never make them jingle like a bell,
Tuneful but empty, boring and benign;
The repetitions build the villanelle
By moving out beyond the tercet's cell
(Though having two lone rhyme-sounds can confine
This form). With two refrains in parallel
A poem can find its way into a hell
Of ingenuity to redesign
The repetitions. Build the villanelle
Till it has told the tale it has to tell;
Then two refrains will finally intertwine.
This form with two refrains in parallel
The repetitions build: The Villanelle.
The whole text is available via the University of Pennsylvania: https://web.english.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Hollander_Rhyme_s_Reason.pdf
**Which reminds me I don't actually own a copy currently. One to add to my wishlist!
26SandraArdnas
Great choice. But I'm apparently the only one who reads 'The art of losing isn’t hard to master' as ironic. We're guaranteed to experience loss over and over and over again that you'd think we'd master it at some point, only to suffer each and every time again. I love the playfulness of starting with mundane losses of keys and such, gradual moving to more substantial losses and culminating in that one loss that spurred the writing of the poem as a consolation. Exquisite.
>23 elenchus: Highly structured forms like villanelle (or sonnet) are defined by that structure. In this case, 5 tercets and a quatrain. So 5 stanzas 3 lines each, and the final one with 4 lines. It's not so much rote memorization of those numbers to recognize it, you can visually recognize it once you know it. Aside from particular structure and rhyming scheme, villanelle also stands out with a 'refrain', a line that is repeated throughout.
>23 elenchus: Highly structured forms like villanelle (or sonnet) are defined by that structure. In this case, 5 tercets and a quatrain. So 5 stanzas 3 lines each, and the final one with 4 lines. It's not so much rote memorization of those numbers to recognize it, you can visually recognize it once you know it. Aside from particular structure and rhyming scheme, villanelle also stands out with a 'refrain', a line that is repeated throughout.
27TonjaE
>23 elenchus: I find it sad that you believe you are not a 'good reader' of verse... What is a good reader? An expert on form? If so, let me ask; do you need to be an architect to appreciate a beautiful building? A chef to enjoy a perfect meal?
Form is interesting and fun to play around with but there is little art in it of its own. That comes from the artist. Form is a tool, it's how you use it that makes poetry.
I don't think any sculptor is wanting his audience to admire his tools so much as he wants them to appreciate what has been expressed with them.
You're not just good; you are a fine reader whether you choose to learn about poetic form or not. F*&k form. You don't even need it to write something that moves people.
Form is interesting and fun to play around with but there is little art in it of its own. That comes from the artist. Form is a tool, it's how you use it that makes poetry.
I don't think any sculptor is wanting his audience to admire his tools so much as he wants them to appreciate what has been expressed with them.
You're not just good; you are a fine reader whether you choose to learn about poetic form or not. F*&k form. You don't even need it to write something that moves people.
28LynnW
>23 elenchus:
Brute force not needed but practice and recognition. EX:
1) see a rectangular shaped poem: count the lines and if 14, puzzle out the many ways people make a sonnet today
2) not the repetition-- some forms repeat words (ex: sestina) others full lines (villanelle, pantoum). Lewis Turco's Book of Forms is the text for years-- earlier version had an index based on stanza's and number of lines to help with your question.
Brute force not needed but practice and recognition. EX:
1) see a rectangular shaped poem: count the lines and if 14, puzzle out the many ways people make a sonnet today
2) not the repetition-- some forms repeat words (ex: sestina) others full lines (villanelle, pantoum). Lewis Turco's Book of Forms is the text for years-- earlier version had an index based on stanza's and number of lines to help with your question.
29elenchus
I really appreciate the responses here! One thing I hoped for from this group was learning about poetry generally, alongside discussion of individual poems. Very much enjoy that it's happening like this.
And to be clear: I don't beat myself up about not considering myself a good reader of poems, and it's not an external judgment that's motivating me. I simply feel far less accomplished and confident in understanding poems I read, compared to prose of various sorts. Trying to be mindful and deliberate about what I can improve.
And to be clear: I don't beat myself up about not considering myself a good reader of poems, and it's not an external judgment that's motivating me. I simply feel far less accomplished and confident in understanding poems I read, compared to prose of various sorts. Trying to be mindful and deliberate about what I can improve.
30hamlet61
This is the first group such as this in which I am actively participating. I had trepidation at first, however, that is gone. Personally, I use forms such as the villanelle as exercises. Sort of language workouts. But I rarely confine myself in my own poetry (which, as of yet, I have not had the nerve to post).
To me, there is surrender in poetry: once written, the writer no longer controls it; as a result, all interpretations are unique and enriched by discussion. That is the really cool thing about it!
To me, there is surrender in poetry: once written, the writer no longer controls it; as a result, all interpretations are unique and enriched by discussion. That is the really cool thing about it!
31hamlet61
>29 elenchus: This is the first group such as this in which I am actively participating. I had trepidation at first, however, that is gone. Personally, I use forms such as the villanelle as exercises. Sort of language workouts. But I rarely confine myself in my own poetry (which, as of yet, I have not had the nerve to post).
To me, there is surrender in poetry: once written, the writer no longer controls it; as a result, all interpretations are unique and enriched by discussion. That is the really cool thing about it!
To me, there is surrender in poetry: once written, the writer no longer controls it; as a result, all interpretations are unique and enriched by discussion. That is the really cool thing about it!
32AnishaInkspill
>23 elenchus: I like reading poetry but know its form is always a stumbling block, so you started an interesting discussion here
>27 TonjaE: that's a good question, my instincts say no I dom't have to be an architect to appreciate a building - 'cos I can enjoy looking at a building just like I enjoy reading poems --- but to try and commincate why I am enjoying that building / poem I think needs a little bit of theory to help convey to others what I am feeling. I think, maybe, knowing a little would help.
>27 TonjaE: that's a good question, my instincts say no I dom't have to be an architect to appreciate a building - 'cos I can enjoy looking at a building just like I enjoy reading poems --- but to try and commincate why I am enjoying that building / poem I think needs a little bit of theory to help convey to others what I am feeling. I think, maybe, knowing a little would help.
33noseinabook58
Sorry to say I just didn't connect with this one.
34LolaWalser
>15 DebiCates:
Thank you for your sympathy, I didn't mean to upset anyone--one small mercy, as such things go, was that my dad mellowed in illness and, as noted, retained at least his enjoyment in beauty (he adored the sea and shaped his life around it).
>16 GraceCollection:, >17 AnishaInkspill:
You're welcome.
>19 Btodd3:
Agreed
>20 hamlet61: -- >25 elenchus:
The form is very important here and I think Bishop employed it beautifully to resonate specifically with content (we keep losing, suffering keeps returning, we keep fighting off "disaster", round and round it goes...)
>26 SandraArdnas:
But I'm apparently the only one who reads 'The art of losing isn’t hard to master' as ironic.
Not at all, I think it's absolutely true, there's this façade of stoicism, but it breaks down at the end (the faltering after "like" -- (Write it!) -- like disaster.
And it's interesting what that irony tells us, if we read the poem "oppositely". No, losing IS a disaster, it's terrible, it's the worst thing that happens to us -- except that's the cost of being alive ever and at all.
Thank you for your sympathy, I didn't mean to upset anyone--one small mercy, as such things go, was that my dad mellowed in illness and, as noted, retained at least his enjoyment in beauty (he adored the sea and shaped his life around it).
>16 GraceCollection:, >17 AnishaInkspill:
You're welcome.
>19 Btodd3:
Agreed
>20 hamlet61: -- >25 elenchus:
The form is very important here and I think Bishop employed it beautifully to resonate specifically with content (we keep losing, suffering keeps returning, we keep fighting off "disaster", round and round it goes...)
>26 SandraArdnas:
But I'm apparently the only one who reads 'The art of losing isn’t hard to master' as ironic.
Not at all, I think it's absolutely true, there's this façade of stoicism, but it breaks down at the end (the faltering after "like" -- (Write it!) -- like disaster.
And it's interesting what that irony tells us, if we read the poem "oppositely". No, losing IS a disaster, it's terrible, it's the worst thing that happens to us -- except that's the cost of being alive ever and at all.
35DebiCates
What a good discussion. I'm getting a lot out of this group.
@elenchus I'm with you on wanting to also learn more about the forms and their traditions. it doesn't hold me back, though, on connecting with a poem. @TonjaE makes a great point, comparing poetry to any art, any thing really, that we enjoy doesn't require study. ("F*&k form" ha) But when we enjoy it, it's natural to want to know more, gain more. And I think the more you learn, the more you will find to enjoy. We are in the right place for either approach.
@saskia17 Wow! Thank you so much for that resource. I'm going to be reading that!
@LynnW another recommendation! A 50 year old standard. Thank you for that, too.
@hamlet61 So glad you are comfortable and enjoying being active here. I love your comment about the surrender that is part of poetry, and from a poet, too. (Perhaps one day you'll feel ready to share here by creating your own thread. I hope so!) Me, I like how poetry is so very personal to each reader. This one is really special to me but for @noseinabook58 it didn't connect . Yet, it's the exact same poem.
I love @LolaWalser 's wise words and how this poem brings out this truth that "No, losing IS a disaster, it's terrible, it's the worst thing that happens to us -- except that's the cost of being alive ever and at all."
Spending a week with y'all on one poem is exactly what I had hoped it could be.
@elenchus I'm with you on wanting to also learn more about the forms and their traditions. it doesn't hold me back, though, on connecting with a poem. @TonjaE makes a great point, comparing poetry to any art, any thing really, that we enjoy doesn't require study. ("F*&k form" ha) But when we enjoy it, it's natural to want to know more, gain more. And I think the more you learn, the more you will find to enjoy. We are in the right place for either approach.
@saskia17 Wow! Thank you so much for that resource. I'm going to be reading that!
@LynnW another recommendation! A 50 year old standard. Thank you for that, too.
@hamlet61 So glad you are comfortable and enjoying being active here. I love your comment about the surrender that is part of poetry, and from a poet, too. (Perhaps one day you'll feel ready to share here by creating your own thread. I hope so!) Me, I like how poetry is so very personal to each reader. This one is really special to me but for @noseinabook58 it didn't connect . Yet, it's the exact same poem.
I love @LolaWalser 's wise words and how this poem brings out this truth that "No, losing IS a disaster, it's terrible, it's the worst thing that happens to us -- except that's the cost of being alive ever and at all."
Spending a week with y'all on one poem is exactly what I had hoped it could be.
36TonjaE
>13 LolaWalser: When memory is lost.... well, I don't think that's disastrous for the one forgetting. It's harder on those forgotten, the ones who still remember.
Mercury memories, slippery little suckers :)
Mercury memories, slippery little suckers :)
37TonjaE
>35 DebiCates: It is wonderful, I'm learning a lot from it too and really enjoying the range of different perspective on things. I appreciate you all very much. xx
38TonjaE
>32 AnishaInkspill: Agreed, I have already learned more about poetry from you all here than I ever thought I would. Enjoying it a lot. :)
39SandraArdnas
>35 DebiCates: I also think it works wonderfully. One week seems just about right for one poem, enough time for everyone to pitch in their takes, while still giving the group constant activity. Also love that there's enough of us now that we'll be exposed to a variety of poets and discovering some new ones.
I was very busy for the past few weeks, so I'm playing catchup. But I did read the poems and some other discussions, just didn't have the time to sit down and write my own thoughts, but they do percolate through my mind on and off in the meantime. It's a wonderful thing to have poetry be one of the things that percolates in my often overbusy mind. I also browse through my favorite poets from time to time with a vague idea of choosing my next poem, though that will change a thousand times by than, so the aim of reviving my poetry reading is well underway thanks to this group :D
I was very busy for the past few weeks, so I'm playing catchup. But I did read the poems and some other discussions, just didn't have the time to sit down and write my own thoughts, but they do percolate through my mind on and off in the meantime. It's a wonderful thing to have poetry be one of the things that percolates in my often overbusy mind. I also browse through my favorite poets from time to time with a vague idea of choosing my next poem, though that will change a thousand times by than, so the aim of reviving my poetry reading is well underway thanks to this group :D
40charl08
>1 LolaWalser: Very late to join this conversation, but fascinating to read the different ways the poem reaches other readers. I enjoy her work and have a book of her letters in the TBR pile.
I am one of those people who is less interested in technical structure, but loves to hear (where it's shared) the personal, biographical detail behind poetry.
Sharing this blog post showing the different drafts the poem went through in case, like me, you'd not seen it before: https://bluedragonfly10.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/one-art-the-writing-of-loss-in-...
I am one of those people who is less interested in technical structure, but loves to hear (where it's shared) the personal, biographical detail behind poetry.
Sharing this blog post showing the different drafts the poem went through in case, like me, you'd not seen it before: https://bluedragonfly10.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/one-art-the-writing-of-loss-in-...
41DebiCates
>40 charl08: Oh wow! That is quite a fascinating link, Charlotte. It took her fifteen drafts before she finally got the final version. I love seeing how her mind worked, jotting down things, more personalized notations, capturing all those ideas.
And like many in the group thought, the final stanza is "a lie," as per one of the later drafts and notes,
And like many in the group thought, the final stanza is "a lie," as per one of the later drafts and notes,
But, losing you eyes of the small wild aster
above’s all lies now. It’s quite evident
the art of losing wasn’t hard to master
with one exception
except for (Say it! Say it!) that disaster.
I’ve written lies above.
42LolaWalser
>40 charl08:, >41 DebiCates:
Really drives home how much labour goes into poetry, as opposed to the romantic notion of "inexplicable" frenetic inspiration.
Really drives home how much labour goes into poetry, as opposed to the romantic notion of "inexplicable" frenetic inspiration.
43SandraArdnas
>42 LolaWalser: To be fair, the inspiration IS inexplicable, at least in my case. It's just not at odds with intensive labor. But I can't just sit down any time I want and write a poem when I decide it's high time I did it, as if I'm washing the dishes or even writing an article on something fairly specific and logical. In other words, it's not just a matter of focus and intent. There's a click somewhere that gives shape to the eventual poem, often an image that grows like fractals into a larger theme. But just sitting down and deciding I'm going to write a poem about xy, that would result in quite a pedestrian attempt no matter how hard I labored on it.

