1yikou
I've seen a few threads throughout the forum on auctions, but figured I'd make one that's a bit more evergreen. The impetus for it being the relatively well stocked Doyle auction that went on today. One notable moment was the auctioneer asking the live/virtual attendees what a "mimpish squinnie" was. I hope one of the members of this forum got the deluxe edition that was on offer. Similarly to the well under current asking price for My Mighty Journey.*
So I asked to the assorted experience on the forum: do you participate? how do you set a limit when there are no easily available comps (for example, I am not sure what Mimpish Squinnies goes for normally, as there is no copy at a bookseller at present)? do you use services like Rare Book Hub (either for notifications or checking comps)? Any memorable wins?
For myself, I do use Rare Book Hub to get notifications, but haven't ever used the historical pricing service. My most memorable win, was actually a loss. I participated in an auction in France and lost on many of the lots that I wanted. I emailed a French bookseller that I've purchased from and asked about that particular auction, since I was fooled by the very low estimates for some pieces (ex. many books estimated at 300-400 euros went for 4000+) – turns out he had won many of the lots I had bid on!
*Gaylord Schanilec once confused me for someone who worked on the book with him, and along with a co-contributor to the book, proceeded to give a very fun walkthrough of every page. It was not until much later than both of them realized I was not this mysterious 3rd person (who I have since learned looks nothing like me, but is maybe within 10 years of my age – my best guess as to the source of the confusion).
So I asked to the assorted experience on the forum: do you participate? how do you set a limit when there are no easily available comps (for example, I am not sure what Mimpish Squinnies goes for normally, as there is no copy at a bookseller at present)? do you use services like Rare Book Hub (either for notifications or checking comps)? Any memorable wins?
For myself, I do use Rare Book Hub to get notifications, but haven't ever used the historical pricing service. My most memorable win, was actually a loss. I participated in an auction in France and lost on many of the lots that I wanted. I emailed a French bookseller that I've purchased from and asked about that particular auction, since I was fooled by the very low estimates for some pieces (ex. many books estimated at 300-400 euros went for 4000+) – turns out he had won many of the lots I had bid on!
*Gaylord Schanilec once confused me for someone who worked on the book with him, and along with a co-contributor to the book, proceeded to give a very fun walkthrough of every page. It was not until much later than both of them realized I was not this mysterious 3rd person (who I have since learned looks nothing like me, but is maybe within 10 years of my age – my best guess as to the source of the confusion).
2greenwald1
My bid for the mimpish got obliterated lol
I did win the copy of Youth though, which surprised me, and now makes me wonder if I overpaid ($650 hammer).
According to the description it has “Very light wear, spine slightly toned, internally fresh. Lacking the slipcase”
Not sure where that shakes out, but think it was a good price.
I did win the copy of Youth though, which surprised me, and now makes me wonder if I overpaid ($650 hammer).
According to the description it has “Very light wear, spine slightly toned, internally fresh. Lacking the slipcase”
Not sure where that shakes out, but think it was a good price.
3NathanOv
>2 greenwald1: I dread asking what Mimpish Squinnies went for - it slipped through all of my auction alerts despite being near the top of my in search of list.
4greenwald1
>3 NathanOv: $4k
It was one of the 10 special copies bound in full Morocco.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/price-result/the-deluxe-issue-of-rorer-s-mimpish...
It was one of the 10 special copies bound in full Morocco.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/price-result/the-deluxe-issue-of-rorer-s-mimpish...
5NathanOv
>4 greenwald1: Oof. Well I can feel a little better knowing I won't pay nearly that much if a standard comes up.
6yikou
>2 greenwald1: Yes, with few exceptions, I always have the sense that if I won at an auction, I'm the sucker.
7Lukas1990
Do you all bid early before auction goes live with proxy bid or do you wait for the last second and snipe?
8Chemren
>7 Lukas1990: I tend to bid early with a proxy bid. Helps you keep to your limits.
10Another_Bibliomane
I try to submit my maximum bid ahead of time, to avoid auction fever. Even better if I don’t watch the auction - yesterday it got the better of me and I bumped my bid for that Conchyliology, and in the end my last bid was ignored by the system and I lost. Probably for the best!
11yikou
>7 Lukas1990: I did an old school ebay auction once where sniping was possible and hated it, so now I review the catalogue, come up with comps, set a max bid, set it and forget it. However... my weakness is for when there is something that has no readily available comps, but I'm still keen on it. In that case, I will try to attend the auction and have a "pool" of money for live bidding.
12Sport1963
I hope a FPF member won this GCP deluxe binding lot:
https://www.doyle.com/auction/lot/lot-421---two-works-from-the-golden-cockerel-p...
Both excellent titles.
https://www.doyle.com/auction/lot/lot-421---two-works-from-the-golden-cockerel-p...
Both excellent titles.
14Shadekeep
>4 greenwald1: Glad I missed this one! That's been on my get-list for a good while but that would have knocked the finances for six. Ignorance proves blissful this time at least.
15kermaier
>2 greenwald1: If I’d been aware of this auction in time, I’d have likely outbid you for Youth — $650 is a very good price.
16tkellici
>13 dlphcoracl: For fine press lots like this, are there tells in the listing photos or description that flag condition risk before bidding — or is it mostly a case of knowing the seller's grading standards?
17dlphcoracl
>16 tkellici:
If you are going to bid at auction, you must request a complete set of photographs on any lot you are bidding on, especially if it is likely to have a hammer price of several thousand dollars, as I did on this particular lot.
First, the GCP 'Julius Caesar' was a mess and that was obvious from the 2nd photo in that lot. The front cover of the leather binding is badly faded in an uneven manner, almost as if it had sustained water damage. This book was a discard, i.e., a book that is non-collectible that the auction house includes and bundles with a more desirable book to get rid of it and clear their inventory, hopefully juicing up the bidding a bit for this lot. By itself, no serious collector would have bid on it. More important, the additional detailed photos of the GCP Mabinogion sent to me demonstrated that what was euphemistically described as "some slight wear to bottom of rear joint" was actually a 2 to 3 inch separation of the external hinge (joint). Note that this was NOT included in the auction photos for this lot. This, of course, is a non-starter and it renders this book non-collectible as well.
FWIW, the special edition of the GCP Mabinogion is one of those books that 'demands' to be acquired in fine condition without any fading, rubbing, staining, etc. Even small condition issues in this book detract considerably from its appearance. Similar to the special edition of the GCP Endymion by John Keats, if it is in truly fine condition it sells at a premium in an auction and both the GCP Special Endymion and GCP Special Mabinogion in fine condition command a hammer price between $3,200 to $4,000. This explains why this lot sold poorly, i.e., a hammer price of $1,600, in an auction that overall had aggressive bidding. Someone thought they were getting a 'bargain' but, in reality, he/she wasted over $2,000 when the 28% Buyer's Premium was included by acquiring two books with serious condition issues.
Caveat emptor.
If you are going to bid at auction, you must request a complete set of photographs on any lot you are bidding on, especially if it is likely to have a hammer price of several thousand dollars, as I did on this particular lot.
First, the GCP 'Julius Caesar' was a mess and that was obvious from the 2nd photo in that lot. The front cover of the leather binding is badly faded in an uneven manner, almost as if it had sustained water damage. This book was a discard, i.e., a book that is non-collectible that the auction house includes and bundles with a more desirable book to get rid of it and clear their inventory, hopefully juicing up the bidding a bit for this lot. By itself, no serious collector would have bid on it. More important, the additional detailed photos of the GCP Mabinogion sent to me demonstrated that what was euphemistically described as "some slight wear to bottom of rear joint" was actually a 2 to 3 inch separation of the external hinge (joint). Note that this was NOT included in the auction photos for this lot. This, of course, is a non-starter and it renders this book non-collectible as well.
FWIW, the special edition of the GCP Mabinogion is one of those books that 'demands' to be acquired in fine condition without any fading, rubbing, staining, etc. Even small condition issues in this book detract considerably from its appearance. Similar to the special edition of the GCP Endymion by John Keats, if it is in truly fine condition it sells at a premium in an auction and both the GCP Special Endymion and GCP Special Mabinogion in fine condition command a hammer price between $3,200 to $4,000. This explains why this lot sold poorly, i.e., a hammer price of $1,600, in an auction that overall had aggressive bidding. Someone thought they were getting a 'bargain' but, in reality, he/she wasted over $2,000 when the 28% Buyer's Premium was included by acquiring two books with serious condition issues.
Caveat emptor.
18tkellici
>17 dlphcoracl: Thank you! As someone who just bought a few Allen Press books from the PBA auction, I am deeply grateful for your insights. I'll keep them in mind for future auctions.
19jbrnewman
>1 yikou: Uff. I am quite disappointed that I missed this one. It appears I've been let down relying on alerts.
20Sport1963
>13 dlphcoracl: A good lesson to all of us on the FPF. Never bid a substantial amount of money on a lot without requesting and receiving detailed photos. A few tips for FPF members on what you should request photographic detail on (outside to in):
1. Binding condition, including but not limited to the following, as applicable:
Fading/darkening/fugitive colors, foot and crown condition, upper and lower hinge condition, board bowing/flaring/warping, raised band rubbing, titling/gilt/decoration brightness, scratches/rubbing/shelf-wear, water/liquid damage, odor, corner sharpness.
2. Text block condition along top, fore-edge and bottom (gilt condition if present, foxing or marks).
3. Inner hinge condition of rear & front pastedowns and endpapers, foxing (particularly along the gutters).
4. Ownership marks/bookplates
5. Copyright page
6. Colophon
7. Any visible internal flaws: tears, missing pages, foxing, marks (pen, pencil or otherwise), or stains.
If a slipcase or solander is a part of the original edition, see number 1. In some cases an intact slipcase/solander in near fine condition can significantly impact the value of an edition (e.g., Douglass Cockerell paper covered slipcases that were issued with several Ashendene Press titles).
Do NOT rely on a tiny iPhone screen to make a judgement. My original comment on the Doyle GCP Caesar/Mabinogion specials were based on just that; a quick glance on my iPhone screen of the auction house's photos, post auction.
1. Binding condition, including but not limited to the following, as applicable:
Fading/darkening/fugitive colors, foot and crown condition, upper and lower hinge condition, board bowing/flaring/warping, raised band rubbing, titling/gilt/decoration brightness, scratches/rubbing/shelf-wear, water/liquid damage, odor, corner sharpness.
2. Text block condition along top, fore-edge and bottom (gilt condition if present, foxing or marks).
3. Inner hinge condition of rear & front pastedowns and endpapers, foxing (particularly along the gutters).
4. Ownership marks/bookplates
5. Copyright page
6. Colophon
7. Any visible internal flaws: tears, missing pages, foxing, marks (pen, pencil or otherwise), or stains.
If a slipcase or solander is a part of the original edition, see number 1. In some cases an intact slipcase/solander in near fine condition can significantly impact the value of an edition (e.g., Douglass Cockerell paper covered slipcases that were issued with several Ashendene Press titles).
Do NOT rely on a tiny iPhone screen to make a judgement. My original comment on the Doyle GCP Caesar/Mabinogion specials were based on just that; a quick glance on my iPhone screen of the auction house's photos, post auction.
21splashbros
>20 Sport1963: I was the winner of this GCP lot but in light of the Oracle's posts, I am kicking myself for relying on the auctioneer's condition statement. I normally do ask for additional photos based on a prior bad experience with Freeman's Auction but got lazy this time. An expensive lesson re-learnt. :-(
22howtoeatrat
Wow $12k for Pericles…
23dotman
>21 splashbros: I wouldn't be too hard on yourself there. I too looked at the lot semi-seriously and the damage extent did not pop out noticeably to me either. The JC is still attractive, and quite rare; just take comfort in the idea that now you've a perfect reading copy of the title.
24rogerthat2 
This message has been flagged by multiple users and is no longer displayed (show)
I only bid at the end of auctions. Bidding early accomplishes nothing but to inflate prices. You won't win unless you're overpaying and all that fussing is for nought.
That said, I don't bid on these auctions at all as I do not pay thousands for books and there are rarely any deals to be had.
Enjoy your thousand dollar books about nonsense that you'll never read....
That said, I don't bid on these auctions at all as I do not pay thousands for books and there are rarely any deals to be had.
Enjoy your thousand dollar books about nonsense that you'll never read....
25DenimDan
>24 rogerthat2: Books of nonsense are generally the only ones I'll go north of 1,000 on
26Another_Bibliomane
>24 rogerthat2: aren’t you a charmer.
27filox
>21 splashbros: Don't feel so bad, I'm sure most of us here have at least one story of a regrettable purchase at an auction. For me, it was one of the five specials bindings of the Last Press edition of The Red Badge of Courage. What was described as light foxing turned out to be mold and the book smells like death. My wife doesn't let me keep it indoors, now it's in a box covered in coffee beans on the balcony. Still smells really bad, i think i might just have to throw it out.
28astropi
>21 splashbros: I'm sorry you have buyer's remorse. As >27 filox: noted, we have all been there. What exactly happened if I might ask? Book not in great condition?
>24 rogerthat2: I don't think "Enjoy your thousand dollar books about nonsense that you'll never read...." was appropriate. Not sure it's enough to flag the message, but it can be seen as an ad hominem. At any rate, even more so, I think people are entitled to spend their money on any books they want, even if I personally have no interest in it. Sometimes these "nonsense books" are really cool and interesting even if you or I would not pay the asking price.
>24 rogerthat2: I don't think "Enjoy your thousand dollar books about nonsense that you'll never read...." was appropriate. Not sure it's enough to flag the message, but it can be seen as an ad hominem. At any rate, even more so, I think people are entitled to spend their money on any books they want, even if I personally have no interest in it. Sometimes these "nonsense books" are really cool and interesting even if you or I would not pay the asking price.
29Another_Bibliomane
>27 filox: i don’t know if the value of this would warrant the cost, but a well equipped conservationist may be able to save that book.
30filox
>29 Another_Bibliomane: I've already talked to a few local ones, and none specialize in books. I would probably need to look further away, but I'm not sure the binding can be saved, and that's kinda the whole value of the book.
31Lukas1990
One of 25 special copies of Gregynog Press Euripides was sold a couple of days ago in a Welsh auction. Just look at the description and photos. At least they posted some more photos before live auction. What was described as foxing looks more like water damage or even mold. Still sold for 4400 GBP hammer.
https://auctions.rogersjones.co.uk/auctions/9610/rogers10626/lot-details/e46f344...
https://auctions.rogersjones.co.uk/auctions/9610/rogers10626/lot-details/e46f344...
32splashbros
>28 astropi: I have not received the books yet. They are being shipped.
33ChestnutPress
>31 Lukas1990: I am always baffled by people paying such large amounts of money for a book in such ropey condition.
35LT79-1
>34 Lukas1990: I think that cat is included in the package.
36splashbros
I finally received the books. The GCP Caesar's Commentaries in the special S&S binding is in NF condition with only very minor shelf wear. The GCP Mabinogion in special S&S binding is in VG condition. There is a minor tear (~ 2" long) in the leather of the back cover near the spine but the cover is not separated from the spine. So, I am not sure why the Oracle thought so poorly of the conditions of both the books.
Also, comparing what I paid at the auction to Blackwell's list price for the Mabinogion book in the special binding (which has extensive foxing along the deckled edges), I am pretty happy with my purchase.
Also, comparing what I paid at the auction to Blackwell's list price for the Mabinogion book in the special binding (which has extensive foxing along the deckled edges), I am pretty happy with my purchase.
