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1oregonobsessionz
John Dickerson writing on Slate:
All campaigns must change in order to handle the arrival of a vice-presidential candidate. To accommodate Sarah Palin, John McCain's Straight Talk Express has now installed a fainting couch. It's not for the vice-presidential candidate—she's plenty tough—but for McCain aides who are rapidly perfecting the act of expiring on the cushions on her behalf at every sign of perceived sexism.
Tuesday night they turned in a spectacular performance. Barack Obama used the expression "lipstick on a pig" to refer to McCain's new pitch as a change agent in Washington. "You can put lipstick on a pig," he said as the crowd cheered. "It's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still gonna stink. We've had enough of the same old thing."
The McCain campaign reacted to the remarks with emergency umbrage. A conference call was ordered for 7 p.m. Former Massachusetts Gov. Jane Swift, the newly minted chair of the "Palin Truth Squad," told reporters she was offended at Obama's attack on Palin. She couldn't explain how Obama's general attack was a personal one aimed at Palin but asserted it was just obvious. She also took offense on behalf of her children. She may have even put her hand to her brow, but it was a phone call, so I couldn't tell. (Note: If it had been a man on the call, I also would have used this expression because of the silent-movielike theatricality. I believe that this gesture is gender neutral, but if you have another one, drop us a line and we'll fix it.)
The McCain team's hypersensitive and highly managed approach to the new vice president offers up yet more signs of just how far the Republican nominee has come from his freewheeling days. McCain, once one of the most accessible politicians in modern times, has essentially hidden his vice-presidential pick from the press since her selection. Palin's performances are highly scripted, and the campaign that once rightly criticized bloggers for taking McCain's every utterance out of context has now perfected the blogger's quick trigger of outrage....
...
It's not clear what Palin thinks of the lipstick remark or the campaign's nine-alarm ire. She's spoken only to People magazine since she was selected. She'll sit down with ABC's Charlie Gibson later this week for a set of interviews designed around her son's deployment ceremony, and perhaps he'll ask her. She once spoke at length about the ways in which Hillary Clinton's whining about sexism had hurt all women everywhere, so perhaps it rankles that it's being claimed so frequently on her behalf. She seems like the kind of woman who can defend herself. She might even think making such a fuss to protect her is sexist.
All campaigns must change in order to handle the arrival of a vice-presidential candidate. To accommodate Sarah Palin, John McCain's Straight Talk Express has now installed a fainting couch. It's not for the vice-presidential candidate—she's plenty tough—but for McCain aides who are rapidly perfecting the act of expiring on the cushions on her behalf at every sign of perceived sexism.
Tuesday night they turned in a spectacular performance. Barack Obama used the expression "lipstick on a pig" to refer to McCain's new pitch as a change agent in Washington. "You can put lipstick on a pig," he said as the crowd cheered. "It's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still gonna stink. We've had enough of the same old thing."
The McCain campaign reacted to the remarks with emergency umbrage. A conference call was ordered for 7 p.m. Former Massachusetts Gov. Jane Swift, the newly minted chair of the "Palin Truth Squad," told reporters she was offended at Obama's attack on Palin. She couldn't explain how Obama's general attack was a personal one aimed at Palin but asserted it was just obvious. She also took offense on behalf of her children. She may have even put her hand to her brow, but it was a phone call, so I couldn't tell. (Note: If it had been a man on the call, I also would have used this expression because of the silent-movielike theatricality. I believe that this gesture is gender neutral, but if you have another one, drop us a line and we'll fix it.)
The McCain team's hypersensitive and highly managed approach to the new vice president offers up yet more signs of just how far the Republican nominee has come from his freewheeling days. McCain, once one of the most accessible politicians in modern times, has essentially hidden his vice-presidential pick from the press since her selection. Palin's performances are highly scripted, and the campaign that once rightly criticized bloggers for taking McCain's every utterance out of context has now perfected the blogger's quick trigger of outrage....
...
It's not clear what Palin thinks of the lipstick remark or the campaign's nine-alarm ire. She's spoken only to People magazine since she was selected. She'll sit down with ABC's Charlie Gibson later this week for a set of interviews designed around her son's deployment ceremony, and perhaps he'll ask her. She once spoke at length about the ways in which Hillary Clinton's whining about sexism had hurt all women everywhere, so perhaps it rankles that it's being claimed so frequently on her behalf. She seems like the kind of woman who can defend herself. She might even think making such a fuss to protect her is sexist.
2Lunar
Why is Obama being so sexist? Can't McCain be proud of being a man without someone calling him a pig? Not all men are pigs!
3oregonobsessionz
More on Lipstick and pigs
4Nichtglied
By being offended by the lipstick remark and calling it sexist, the McCain campaign is calling Palin a pig.
Of course, the outrage is probably only feigned. Feigning outrage is one of the great talents of politicians, especially Republicans.
Of course, the outrage is probably only feigned. Feigning outrage is one of the great talents of politicians, especially Republicans.
6timspalding
So, I don't think Obama meant any insult. But as I said elsewhere (http://www.librarything.com/talktopic.php?topic=45263), considering the constant replaying of Palin's "lipstick" line, it was certainly ill-timed. So, while I take Obama at his word, I'd bet you anything Obama's campaign people knew what was going to happen as soon as he delivered the line. On the other side, I bet most Republican reaction is disingenuous.
That said, this stuff happens everywhere. NY Gov. Patterson is arguing that the McCain campaign is using coded racism in their approach to the term "community organizer." ( See http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/mccain-campaign-fires-back-at-pater... )
Elections make people crazy, I think.
That said, this stuff happens everywhere. NY Gov. Patterson is arguing that the McCain campaign is using coded racism in their approach to the term "community organizer." ( See http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/mccain-campaign-fires-back-at-pater... )
Elections make people crazy, I think.
9jasonseidner
Still, it's a classic double standard: On one hand she's strong enough to be second in command, yet everyone comes running to her defense when someone did and/or may have said something "offensive". Can anyone explain that to me?
10Madcow299
But McCain used the exact same phrase to describe what I believe was a tax plan of Hillary Clinton, not a year ago. NPR did a great piece on this yesterday and played a number of politicians using the exact same phrase over the last few years. This is just useless distraction by McCain.
11Doug1943
I vowed to go into secular monastic retreat starting in August and not pay any attention to the current American election, and instead read the Lincoln-Douglas debates to remind myself of how far down we have come.
But it's like driving past a bad automobile accident -- you can't help but look, even if -- especially if -- it is really horrible.
But it's like driving past a bad automobile accident -- you can't help but look, even if -- especially if -- it is really horrible.
12timspalding
Was that a coded reference to Todd Palin's 20-year-old DUI?
13Jesse_wiedinmyer
Slander! Slander!
14Jesse_wiedinmyer
Or is that Libel!? Libel!? I always confuse the two.
15mindylou182
I just don't like Obama. Not just because of this though. I usually don't pay attention to politics, but since I have to take a speech class and my teacher insists we talk about it all the time, I have been paying some attention.
Obama didn't directly insult Palin. Although in one of her speeches she used the joke about the difference between a hockey mom and a pitbull (which was lipstick for those of you who did not hear that speech). I guess some people would take offense to that, but Palin seems like a very strong person, so she should be able to take the "insult" if it was meant to be an insult.
Obama was just trying to make a point, which people took the wrong way. But that's politics for you. People try to prove to everyone that they are the best person to elect while they are criticized for what they say by the people. (If that makes any sense at all.)
Obama didn't directly insult Palin. Although in one of her speeches she used the joke about the difference between a hockey mom and a pitbull (which was lipstick for those of you who did not hear that speech). I guess some people would take offense to that, but Palin seems like a very strong person, so she should be able to take the "insult" if it was meant to be an insult.
Obama was just trying to make a point, which people took the wrong way. But that's politics for you. People try to prove to everyone that they are the best person to elect while they are criticized for what they say by the people. (If that makes any sense at all.)
16oregonobsessionz
>15 mindylou182:
Excellent! Kudos to your speech teacher. This whole circus is a wonderful opportunity to learn critical thinking. If you can do that, you will be more informed than - oh I dunno - 75% of American voters?
A week or so ago, As You Know Bob was discussing a "Crazification Factor" of 27% (based on a GWB speech back in 2005), and that's just for the outright loonies. Add to that the apathetic, the excitable, and the just plain clueless, and I think 75% is about right. Anyone have a better number?
Excellent! Kudos to your speech teacher. This whole circus is a wonderful opportunity to learn critical thinking. If you can do that, you will be more informed than - oh I dunno - 75% of American voters?
A week or so ago, As You Know Bob was discussing a "Crazification Factor" of 27% (based on a GWB speech back in 2005), and that's just for the outright loonies. Add to that the apathetic, the excitable, and the just plain clueless, and I think 75% is about right. Anyone have a better number?
17jjwilson61
15> I don't believe that McCain's people just "took it the wrong way." They deliberately misconstrued so as to convince the public that Obama is picking on poor Palin.
18jasonseidner
15>
When you say that Palin "seems like a very strong person", what does that mean? Strong in comparison to someone walking down the street? Well sure, she's a governor--there are 50 of them in a nation of 300 million people.
If you use that same logic, would a senator be considered a 'very strong person'? There are only 100 of them... and three of them are in this election along with Palin.
My point is that it doesn't sound like you have any real reason for liking her except that you just like her. That's okay--there's nothing wrong with that. Gut feelings lead us to all kinds of decisions and you can't always explain them logically. But saying "she seems like a very strong person" makes no sense just by itself. It's Garrison Keillor's argument that not everyone can be above average. It's just not mathematically possible.
So here's my question: Is she very strong in comparison to other governors? In comparison to Biden? In comparison to Obama or McCain? Just saying she's very strong--using a comparitive term without comparing her to anyone--is how kids sound when they give reports. "I went to Kansas this summer. Kansas is a big state."
Again, it's better to just say that she "feels right" ... that something about her seems right to you. There are enough commercials out there using words like 'strong' and 'confident'... so much so that the words mean nothing at all.
When you say that Palin "seems like a very strong person", what does that mean? Strong in comparison to someone walking down the street? Well sure, she's a governor--there are 50 of them in a nation of 300 million people.
If you use that same logic, would a senator be considered a 'very strong person'? There are only 100 of them... and three of them are in this election along with Palin.
My point is that it doesn't sound like you have any real reason for liking her except that you just like her. That's okay--there's nothing wrong with that. Gut feelings lead us to all kinds of decisions and you can't always explain them logically. But saying "she seems like a very strong person" makes no sense just by itself. It's Garrison Keillor's argument that not everyone can be above average. It's just not mathematically possible.
So here's my question: Is she very strong in comparison to other governors? In comparison to Biden? In comparison to Obama or McCain? Just saying she's very strong--using a comparitive term without comparing her to anyone--is how kids sound when they give reports. "I went to Kansas this summer. Kansas is a big state."
Again, it's better to just say that she "feels right" ... that something about her seems right to you. There are enough commercials out there using words like 'strong' and 'confident'... so much so that the words mean nothing at all.
19timspalding
>18 jasonseidner:
I think s/he meant "strong" in the sense of personal fortitude. While personality is subjectively understood, there's every reasonable reason to call her "strong" in that sense. She governs, she hunts, she has five kids, she stands up to criticism and gives it back, etc. It's hard to know someone in politics, but by all appearances she's "strong." She's not "fragile" or "weak," is she?
I'm not sure this should be the center of anything, but it's a character feature, isn't it? We don't want a president who can't hack it—falling apart in a crisis, for example.
Further, I think it could be said of all four. McCain survived years of torture that broke other men. Biden survived the violent death of his wife and child, something that breaks many people. Obama had a life of considerable tumult and struggle, without one parent and losing the other, and came out pretty well on the other side.
Right?
I think s/he meant "strong" in the sense of personal fortitude. While personality is subjectively understood, there's every reasonable reason to call her "strong" in that sense. She governs, she hunts, she has five kids, she stands up to criticism and gives it back, etc. It's hard to know someone in politics, but by all appearances she's "strong." She's not "fragile" or "weak," is she?
I'm not sure this should be the center of anything, but it's a character feature, isn't it? We don't want a president who can't hack it—falling apart in a crisis, for example.
Further, I think it could be said of all four. McCain survived years of torture that broke other men. Biden survived the violent death of his wife and child, something that breaks many people. Obama had a life of considerable tumult and struggle, without one parent and losing the other, and came out pretty well on the other side.
Right?
20mindylou182
>19 timspalding:
That is what I meant. I meant that emotionally, she seems perfectly capable of standing up to criticism/insults (if she took it as an insult). I'm just saying that she seems like the type of person who accepts criticism/insults and doesn't take too much offense to them.
That is what I meant. I meant that emotionally, she seems perfectly capable of standing up to criticism/insults (if she took it as an insult). I'm just saying that she seems like the type of person who accepts criticism/insults and doesn't take too much offense to them.
21jasonseidner
20>
But since that quality applies to all four candidates, what's the sense in saying it? If a sports reporter says, "They are a really good football team" that's fine, but if the other 3 teams in their division have the exact same record it makes no sense. It's just filling silence--saying something positive when there's nothing distinct to say.
We're so surrounded by these not-so-objective reporters whose only job is to say positive things, to pretend they're responding. It's annoying; we can hardly tell when anyone feels genuine about anything. To throw words around (ie, telling a friend that the dry cleaners you use does "quality" work) makes you sound like a party line person who just roots for whoever's on the ticket.
But since that quality applies to all four candidates, what's the sense in saying it? If a sports reporter says, "They are a really good football team" that's fine, but if the other 3 teams in their division have the exact same record it makes no sense. It's just filling silence--saying something positive when there's nothing distinct to say.
We're so surrounded by these not-so-objective reporters whose only job is to say positive things, to pretend they're responding. It's annoying; we can hardly tell when anyone feels genuine about anything. To throw words around (ie, telling a friend that the dry cleaners you use does "quality" work) makes you sound like a party line person who just roots for whoever's on the ticket.
22Doug1943
Jesse: Slander is spoken, and libel is written. Or maybe it's the other way around.
Although all the mock-indignation about sexism and pigs and so on is justifiably irritating to liberals, consider this: it is a mark of your historic victory.
I recall, a couple of years ago, a Marine Corps general in Afghanistan waxing indignant at the medieval treatment of women by the Taliban. When that happens, you know that the emancipation of women is here to stay. The Handmaid's Tale is paranoid fantasy.
The truly enormous change in consciousness on matters of race and sex that has overtaken the civilized world is really breathtaking, when you step back and get some historical perspective on it.
In about a century -- just a few generations -- we have taken a huge leap, one of the biggest that the species has ever carried out. How many times have I heard Republicans speak wistfully about Colin Powell, or (less practically) about Condoleeza Rice? When hard-faced white Republican politicos are looking desperately for Black and female candidates to represent them -- and they are -- you know you have won.
Although all the mock-indignation about sexism and pigs and so on is justifiably irritating to liberals, consider this: it is a mark of your historic victory.
I recall, a couple of years ago, a Marine Corps general in Afghanistan waxing indignant at the medieval treatment of women by the Taliban. When that happens, you know that the emancipation of women is here to stay. The Handmaid's Tale is paranoid fantasy.
The truly enormous change in consciousness on matters of race and sex that has overtaken the civilized world is really breathtaking, when you step back and get some historical perspective on it.
In about a century -- just a few generations -- we have taken a huge leap, one of the biggest that the species has ever carried out. How many times have I heard Republicans speak wistfully about Colin Powell, or (less practically) about Condoleeza Rice? When hard-faced white Republican politicos are looking desperately for Black and female candidates to represent them -- and they are -- you know you have won.
23oregonobsessionz
FWIW, slander is malicious, false, and most likely conveyed orally. Libel is malicious, defamatory, and written.
Nothing will recruit a man to feminism faster than having an intelligent and talented daughter who encounters gender-based restrictions. I have witnessed some astounding conversions among my acquaintances.
Nothing will recruit a man to feminism faster than having an intelligent and talented daughter who encounters gender-based restrictions. I have witnessed some astounding conversions among my acquaintances.
24mindylou182
>21 jasonseidner:
I was just saying that some people don't have that quality. Some people break down under insults. I'm not really trying to compare Palin to anyone at all. I'm still trying to figure out why people think I am trying to compare her to other people. I'm not comparing her to anyone. I'm not trying to say she has a certain level of tolerance to insults. I am just saying she is able to take insults. Some people are unable to take insults.
So to clarify once again, I am NOT comparing her to anyone. I'm not trying to gauge where she is on the "Level of Tolerance to Insults" scale. I am just saying that she can tolerate it. I am well aware that all four candidates are able to tolerate insults.
So, once again to make sure everyone gets the idea. I am not comparing her to anyone or anything. I am not trying to say what level of tolerance she has. I am just saying she can tolerate it. I'm not saying she can tolerate only a certain amount compared to Obama or McCain or anyone else. I am just saying she can tolerate insults like other people.
Everyone have the idea now?
I was just saying that some people don't have that quality. Some people break down under insults. I'm not really trying to compare Palin to anyone at all. I'm still trying to figure out why people think I am trying to compare her to other people. I'm not comparing her to anyone. I'm not trying to say she has a certain level of tolerance to insults. I am just saying she is able to take insults. Some people are unable to take insults.
So to clarify once again, I am NOT comparing her to anyone. I'm not trying to gauge where she is on the "Level of Tolerance to Insults" scale. I am just saying that she can tolerate it. I am well aware that all four candidates are able to tolerate insults.
So, once again to make sure everyone gets the idea. I am not comparing her to anyone or anything. I am not trying to say what level of tolerance she has. I am just saying she can tolerate it. I'm not saying she can tolerate only a certain amount compared to Obama or McCain or anyone else. I am just saying she can tolerate insults like other people.
Everyone have the idea now?
