This topic is currently marked as "dormant"—the last message is more than 90 days old. You can revive it by posting a reply.
1foggidawn
Happy Monday, everyone! This week we're discussing the following chapters:
10: Strider
11: A Knife in the Dark
12: Flight to the Ford
Have at it!
10: Strider
11: A Knife in the Dark
12: Flight to the Ford
Have at it!
2foggidawn
Ooooookay, I'll have at it, then.
Chapter 10 notes:
1) Butterbur describes Gandalf as "a bit hasty" -- Butterbur would get along well with the Ents!
2) I love the poem about Aragorn. "Not all who wander are lost." I'm not always a fan of Tolkien's poetry (I'll admit it: when I read these books as a teenager, I think I skipped any poem longer than about 12 lines) but this is Tolkien poetry at it's best.
3) Strider says, "My looks are against me." Considering the number of women who have had crushes on Aragorn (even before he was played by Viggo!) I think he is undervaluing himself a bit.
4) Merry — Brave but dumb. And Strider agrees.
5) The black riders seem to have the same sort of effect that Dementors do. There's even a mention of "the Black Breath" which apparently caused Merry to fall into some sort of nasty nightmare.
6) Although Mr. Butterbur tried to make a grab for the title, Strider was the chapter's King of Exposition™.
Chapter 10 notes:
1) Butterbur describes Gandalf as "a bit hasty" -- Butterbur would get along well with the Ents!
2) I love the poem about Aragorn. "Not all who wander are lost." I'm not always a fan of Tolkien's poetry (I'll admit it: when I read these books as a teenager, I think I skipped any poem longer than about 12 lines) but this is Tolkien poetry at it's best.
3) Strider says, "My looks are against me." Considering the number of women who have had crushes on Aragorn (even before he was played by Viggo!) I think he is undervaluing himself a bit.
4) Merry — Brave but dumb. And Strider agrees.
5) The black riders seem to have the same sort of effect that Dementors do. There's even a mention of "the Black Breath" which apparently caused Merry to fall into some sort of nasty nightmare.
6) Although Mr. Butterbur tried to make a grab for the title, Strider was the chapter's King of Exposition™.
3compskibook
2.5 I thought the same thing when I read it.
2.6 Go Strider!
2.6 Go Strider!
4Espeon200
Chapter 10: Strider
*Espy starts laughing at the mention of building up the fire. Foggi yells "Don't be crass!" at him.*
1. Score one for Strider. (Insult to Butterbur)
2. "Every little bit helps." This is truly a central theme to the entire series.
3. Hobbits are made of sterner stuff than they appear to be.
4. "After Weathertop our journey will become more difficult." He has no idea.
*Espy starts laughing at the mention of building up the fire. Foggi yells "Don't be crass!" at him.*
1. Score one for Strider. (Insult to Butterbur)
2. "Every little bit helps." This is truly a central theme to the entire series.
3. Hobbits are made of sterner stuff than they appear to be.
4. "After Weathertop our journey will become more difficult." He has no idea.
5reading_fox
In Frodo's position who would have agreed to let Strider join? I wouldn't.
There are many hints that Hobbits are stronger than they first appear.
There are many hints that Hobbits are stronger than they first appear.
6compskibook
Chapter 11: A Knife in the Dark
1. I think it is odd that Frodo's new house wasn't attacked until the night everyone was in Bree. It was well know that was were he was going to live and the Black Riders weren't that far behind. Maybe they only wait for reinforcement.
2. Nice work with that apple, Sam!
3. Traveling with Strider does seem to go better. No more tales of them being lulled to sleep!
4. Marshes, why does it have to be marshes!
5. Mordor, There that must not be named, or at least not spoken of loudly.
6. I agree with Sam about the fire: "As good a way as saying 'here we are' as I can think of, bar shouting." In the end it really didn't keep the wraiths away.
1. I think it is odd that Frodo's new house wasn't attacked until the night everyone was in Bree. It was well know that was were he was going to live and the Black Riders weren't that far behind. Maybe they only wait for reinforcement.
2. Nice work with that apple, Sam!
3. Traveling with Strider does seem to go better. No more tales of them being lulled to sleep!
4. Marshes, why does it have to be marshes!
5. Mordor, There that must not be named, or at least not spoken of loudly.
6. I agree with Sam about the fire: "As good a way as saying 'here we are' as I can think of, bar shouting." In the end it really didn't keep the wraiths away.
7pollysmith
I must catch up!
8foggidawn
#6.1 -- I also thought it interesting that the Black Riders don't seem all that excited about attacking the group early on. You would think that something that melts any blade that's stuck into it would be pretty fearless, especially against a group of small, inexperienced, and poorly-armed travelers.
9reading_fox
Although it's not clearly explained I think Sauron was expecting Gandalf and other lords of power to be accompanying or hunting the Ring. Sauron may not have realised that Baggins still had it, merely that he had once had it.
10foggidawn
Notes on Chapter 11:
1) This reference to the "Fell winter" 100 years before the events of this book, makes me think of Narnia's 100-year winter under the White Witch. I think knowing that they were contemporaries and friends makes me see similarities in Narnia and LotR -- which are, in general, pretty dissimilar.
2) Midges! At least they didn't have to deal with lightning sand or ROUS's.
3) Only a Hobbit would complain about losing weight.
4) Tolkien is having J.K. Rowling-style math issues here in regards to Weathertop. In Bree, Strider said that Weathertop was halfway between Bree and Rivendell, but when they get to Weathertop, they are six days into their journey, and Strider estimates that they are still twelve or fourteen days out from Rivendell. So, is it halfway, or just a third of the way? (Now I'm wondering if he said Weathertop was halfway from the Shire to Rivendell, so maybe I will go check . . . later.)
5) I like the whole Weathertop scene better in the book than in the movies, for reasons of characterization. In the book, the attack seems to be nobody's fault in particular, but more something inevitable, and the hobbits show a bit of sense in their actions; whereas in the movie, it's a case of Merry and Pippin being dumb again. I do know that Merry and Pippin occasionally do foolish things, but the movies really played that up (starting with the fireworks at the party). I guess the movies had less room to explore characterization, so they had to telescope some things.
1) This reference to the "Fell winter" 100 years before the events of this book, makes me think of Narnia's 100-year winter under the White Witch. I think knowing that they were contemporaries and friends makes me see similarities in Narnia and LotR -- which are, in general, pretty dissimilar.
2) Midges! At least they didn't have to deal with lightning sand or ROUS's.
3) Only a Hobbit would complain about losing weight.
4) Tolkien is having J.K. Rowling-style math issues here in regards to Weathertop. In Bree, Strider said that Weathertop was halfway between Bree and Rivendell, but when they get to Weathertop, they are six days into their journey, and Strider estimates that they are still twelve or fourteen days out from Rivendell. So, is it halfway, or just a third of the way? (Now I'm wondering if he said Weathertop was halfway from the Shire to Rivendell, so maybe I will go check . . . later.)
5) I like the whole Weathertop scene better in the book than in the movies, for reasons of characterization. In the book, the attack seems to be nobody's fault in particular, but more something inevitable, and the hobbits show a bit of sense in their actions; whereas in the movie, it's a case of Merry and Pippin being dumb again. I do know that Merry and Pippin occasionally do foolish things, but the movies really played that up (starting with the fireworks at the party). I guess the movies had less room to explore characterization, so they had to telescope some things.
12pollysmith
I'm trying! (puff puff) I'm trying!
13Espeon200
Chapter 11: A Knife in the Dark
1. Even in Middle Earth Cicadas (Neeker-Breekers) are extremely annoying.
2. Speak not the name! (Of Mordor)
3. Frodo is a dirty, little hobo! (can't remember what this is in reference to.)
4. DON'T DO IT FRODO! (He did it.)
1. Even in Middle Earth Cicadas (Neeker-Breekers) are extremely annoying.
2. Speak not the name! (Of Mordor)
3. Frodo is a dirty, little hobo! (can't remember what this is in reference to.)
4. DON'T DO IT FRODO! (He did it.)
14compskibook
10.5 I agree. The Weathertop attack was much more dramatic in the book. That part where they look up at the moon rising and see a silhouette. Wow!
Chapter 12: Flight to the Ford
1. Frodo has the "One Ring to rule them all" so how do the king (who each have a ring) have the ability to control him? Is it through the ring because they are stronger, or is it some other magic?
2. Will the narrator get the King of Exposition? There sure were a lot of hills, woods, and rocky slopes to describe. I would almost have to guess that Strider will get the KofE award for his long dissertation on the herbs he gathered, but I also think it could be Sam with his great poem. Like earlier with his stoking the fire comments, did Espy get reprimanded for any comments on the last stanza?
3. I love that they find Bilbo's trolls. Just think of all the adventures they have had so far and Bilbo was only on his first this far along.
Chapter 12: Flight to the Ford
1. Frodo has the "One Ring to rule them all" so how do the king (who each have a ring) have the ability to control him? Is it through the ring because they are stronger, or is it some other magic?
2. Will the narrator get the King of Exposition? There sure were a lot of hills, woods, and rocky slopes to describe. I would almost have to guess that Strider will get the KofE award for his long dissertation on the herbs he gathered, but I also think it could be Sam with his great poem. Like earlier with his stoking the fire comments, did Espy get reprimanded for any comments on the last stanza?
3. I love that they find Bilbo's trolls. Just think of all the adventures they have had so far and Bilbo was only on his first this far along.
15foggidawn
I know I have notes on chapter 12 somewhere . . . will post them later, if I can locate them.
In the meantime, don't forget to read, everyone! We'll discuss Fellowship of the Ring Part II, chapters 1-3 on Monday!
In the meantime, don't forget to read, everyone! We'll discuss Fellowship of the Ring Part II, chapters 1-3 on Monday!
16tiegster
Ch. 10: 'seem fairer and feel fouler' has always stuck out to me in this chapter. It reminds me of people I don't like that everyone else loves and then I find out later that they are wicked people.
Ch. 11: 'Apples for walking, and a pipe for sitting...I reckon I'll miss them both before long.' And after throwing the apple at Ferny: 'Waste of a good apple.' I loved it. Sam has always been my hero. He's very insightful and has the ability to anticipate the future.
'What do they live on when they can't get hobbit?' Midges!!! Yes, indeed, Sam, what do they live on?
'...there is a good deal less of me....I shall become a wraith.' Frodo needs to be more careful with his words. There seems to be a bit of power in words. Kind of like in HP, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named...I think people were afraid of lending power to the words they said.
After the Gil-galad poem...Sam again. Also a mention of Mordor and Pippin's hope that it doesn't come to that.
This is the chapter that explains a bit more about the Black Riders. It does seem a bit like the things from HP.
Sorry this is getting lengthy...there is a lot in this chapter that stood out to me...When the Riders come up to Weathertop; Pippin and Merry throw themselves down on the ground and Sam's first thought is to go to Frodo's side...very typical responses for them.
Ch. 12: We see a lot of Sam's responsibility for Frodo come out. Ahh...Sam's pony. Always loved that bit. **'the heirs of Elendil'** that's all, just pay attention to that. And they really sped up and changed this chapter in the movie. Merry about Sam: 'there's more stored in your head than you let on about.' Obviously I admire Sam. And Glorfindel kind of lets us in a little bit to see that Elves seem to be more aware than other races...'my heart warns me.' All right...I'm done for now.
Ch. 11: 'Apples for walking, and a pipe for sitting...I reckon I'll miss them both before long.' And after throwing the apple at Ferny: 'Waste of a good apple.' I loved it. Sam has always been my hero. He's very insightful and has the ability to anticipate the future.
'What do they live on when they can't get hobbit?' Midges!!! Yes, indeed, Sam, what do they live on?
'...there is a good deal less of me....I shall become a wraith.' Frodo needs to be more careful with his words. There seems to be a bit of power in words. Kind of like in HP, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named...I think people were afraid of lending power to the words they said.
After the Gil-galad poem...Sam again. Also a mention of Mordor and Pippin's hope that it doesn't come to that.
This is the chapter that explains a bit more about the Black Riders. It does seem a bit like the things from HP.
Sorry this is getting lengthy...there is a lot in this chapter that stood out to me...When the Riders come up to Weathertop; Pippin and Merry throw themselves down on the ground and Sam's first thought is to go to Frodo's side...very typical responses for them.
Ch. 12: We see a lot of Sam's responsibility for Frodo come out. Ahh...Sam's pony. Always loved that bit. **'the heirs of Elendil'** that's all, just pay attention to that. And they really sped up and changed this chapter in the movie. Merry about Sam: 'there's more stored in your head than you let on about.' Obviously I admire Sam. And Glorfindel kind of lets us in a little bit to see that Elves seem to be more aware than other races...'my heart warns me.' All right...I'm done for now.
17Jim53
Chapter 10: I think I like Aragorn better here when we first meet him than at almost any later time.
18foggidawn
Aha! Espy found my Chapter 12 notes -- here they are:
1) Another Narnia comparison: didn't Lewis call the northern moors in The Silver Chair Ettinsmoor?
2) Espy and I both remarked (at the exact same time) "It's vodka!" when Glorfindel's "special drink" was described.
3) This elf is a real slave driver! (Referring to their flight to Rivendell.)
4) Hard to name a King of Exposition for this one, but I think the award goes to Strider once again.
1) Another Narnia comparison: didn't Lewis call the northern moors in The Silver Chair Ettinsmoor?
2) Espy and I both remarked (at the exact same time) "It's vodka!" when Glorfindel's "special drink" was described.
3) This elf is a real slave driver! (Referring to their flight to Rivendell.)
4) Hard to name a King of Exposition for this one, but I think the award goes to Strider once again.
19reading_fox
#14 - the power of the rings.
the One ring is Sauron's. He made it and it is infused with His power. Through it's existance he controls the wearers of the other rings. Frodo has never claimed ownership of the ring, he merely wears it, and doing so places himself close to being under Sauron's power, and subject to the will of others in his power.
(comparison to HP - remember the writing order, HP may have things that are similar to LoTR, not the other way round. With Narnia it's harder to say as they were contemporaries)
Bree to Withindell - Aragorn's times reflect their less than direct journeys not the actual distance. They aren't walking from Bree to Rivendale direct, after all the trolls were only a day's ride along the road - The Hobbit doesn't mention Bree?
the One ring is Sauron's. He made it and it is infused with His power. Through it's existance he controls the wearers of the other rings. Frodo has never claimed ownership of the ring, he merely wears it, and doing so places himself close to being under Sauron's power, and subject to the will of others in his power.
(comparison to HP - remember the writing order, HP may have things that are similar to LoTR, not the other way round. With Narnia it's harder to say as they were contemporaries)
Bree to Withindell - Aragorn's times reflect their less than direct journeys not the actual distance. They aren't walking from Bree to Rivendale direct, after all the trolls were only a day's ride along the road - The Hobbit doesn't mention Bree?
