Writer-readers Message Board

Welcome to the Writer-readers group! I have just joined LibraryThing and I'm already thoroughly addicted. As one of the blogs referenced on the "buzz" page said: it's thoroughly "cracktastic."

It seemed like a logical use of the groups to unite writers on LibraryThing. There's a lot of books out there about the writing craft and I'm curious to hear which ones other writers think are worthwhile. Also, I'm always interested in discussing reading from a writer's perspective... I think it's my own writing that keeps me reading, I'm always interested in seeing what works and what doesn't.

I've gone on too long, I just hope this group goes somewhere!

I'm game. Let's see what happens.

Stephen King's On Writing is the first book that comes to mind. Enjoyable even if you're not a Stephen King fan.

Thanks for joining in. I'm looking forward to this and exploring more of this really, really cool site.

I've heard good things about that King book. I have to try the cool "touchstones" function:

Stephen King's On Writing

Yes, I agree that King's book was excellent. I used to be a fan but he got too gruesome for me. However, reading his memoir on writing really provided insight into his process. I devoured it.

Just remembered another writing book I like:

Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Browne and Dave King

WOW! That touchstones thing really IS cool! Didn't notice it before (if it was there...).

The Art of Fiction and Becoming a Novelist by John Gardner are essential for any beginning writer.

That should read The Art of Fiction: Notes On Craft For Young Writers.

I'm not really a big reader of books on writing, but I have to say that this has already been very helpful. Thanks everyone.

There are two books that I would recommend:

Points of View is an anthology of short stories that essentially demonstrate every possible point-of-view and narrative perspective available to the writer. Interior monologue, dramatic monologue, letter narration, diary narration, subjective narration, detached autobiography and so on.

Points of View was actually recommended to me by a fairly well-known writer/playwright/actor several years back and I've found it very useful. Really helps you think about voice and point-of-view and what different perspectives do differently for stories. And, if nothing else, it's a fine anthology of short stories.

If You Want to Write, by Brenda Ueland is a bit different. It was written in 1938 and is largely concerned with creativity. Thought it might seem to risk obsolesence, never for a minute have I found myself thinking that her thoughts on writing and imagination were any less relevant today. She references Van Gogh extensively, and those passages seem as applicable to writing as anything else. She is also a wonderfully affirmative voice, telling you over and over again that you have something worth saying, and she's very convincing.

Those two books above are a couple of the best I've come across to help me move onward (and hopefully, upward) with my writing. Lastly, I feel it's necessary to mention Natalie Goldberg's Wild Mind. Though her personality has always kind of gotten to me, a little too "Santa Fe" for my tastes, I can't deny that her writing exercises and thoughts about freeing yourself from the "monkey mind" have been pretty influential in keeping my pen moving despite everything working against it sometimes.

Sorry to ramble. Thanks again for the great suggestions so far and I look forward to hearing from more people.

I would have to say that Just Open a Vein and A Dangerous Profession : a Book About the Writing Life were both helpful and entertaining. I also read On Writing by Stephen King and very much enjoyed it.

I'm not technically a "published author", yet, but I'm a Writer wanna-be! (I just recently got three book reviews published in Romantic Times BOOK Club magazine, though, so maybe that classifies me as "published"?)

Anyway. I've grown a large collection of books on the Writing craft. So, here I am. :o)

Just joined the group. Nice. I write--shorts stories and on my second novel--but only one publication a few years back. Still learning. Anyhoo, about books on writing. I am always careful about these because they can be fun to read and inspiring until I realize that the author has ONLY published books about writing. But that being said--King's book is fantastic--don't read much of his work, but he knows what he's doing. Also, Gardner's work, obvioulsy. And one I picked up recently and really blew my hair back was a big book by Jane Smiley called 13 Ways of Looking at The Novel. She talks about one hundred novels she read over a year (I think). BUt it also talks a lot about writing a novel--very insightful. Cheers.

gajpb - good point about books about writing written by people who have only published books about writing. I think that's why I'm so wary of someone like Natalie Goldberg... sure, she's published a few works of fiction, but her bread and butter is about how to write. It's not that it isn't inspiring or even helpful, but it just feels a little hollow. Kind of a "do as I say, not as I do" thing or something like that.

that's why a book like King's On Writing seems so promising, the guy obviously knows what he's talking about. I'm not a huge aficianado of his work either, but I can't deny he knows how to tell a story and write a good sentence/paragraph/chapter.

there are some great books listed here so far. I'll have to go check them out. :) thanks! :)

John Gardner, who has been mentioned above is, I think, the best. Not exactly famous, didn't make millions of dollars, but wrote a lot of books and taught, which is a more realistic expectation for most writers than becoming wildly rich and famous like King. Gardner's On Moral Fiction is also good, Ray Bradbury's Zen in the Art of Writing, after that, I think the best books, in my opinion, if you're already writing with any regularity, are more technical. Wayne Booth's The Rhetoric of Fiction is a good starting point, but I'm much more fond of Gerard Genette's Narrative Discourse.

Hey mizbooks, I'm not a published writer either--or I haven't been in some time unless you count the failed attemps at humor on my site, which I don't.

Re: Stephen King. I'm not one of those who disparage everything Stephen King writes merely because, well, he's Stephen King. I loved On Writing: a Memoir of the Craft, though I don't own it, and it's been a while since I've read it.

How about Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life? I always thought it was a bit too "chicken soup." I prefer practical advice to hand-holding.

Gardner was a good teacher of writing, and his books reflect that. In my former academic career I often taught intro to creative writing and the book I liked best (and still do for beginners) is Janet Burroway's Writing Fiction. It's not a sit down and flip through it book, you really have to read it closely, but I have never found anything better at explaining things like POV and the narrative arc.

I like most of King's On Writing, except for the chapter on language, which is full of inaccuracies and home-cooked explanations for linguistic phenomena which have been addressed by others in a more careful and useful way.

And I am published, for what that's worth. Five novels in print, two forthcoming, a handful of short stories, lots of non-fiction.

I'm a writer, a reader and a voyeur...what fantastic libraries I just browsed through. I'm honored to be part of the group.

I'd recommend The Forest for the Trees over Bird by Bird--a little more tough love, a little less "chicken soup."

I've been reading Carl Dennis' href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0820322482/sr=1-1/qid=1153950751/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-9345799-6039319?ie=UTF8&s=books"> Poetry As Persuasion and I've found reading on how a good reader reads has caused me to be more sensitive to new issues, and hence a better writer.

Hallo all...just joined the group (and actually I'm a relatively new LibraryThing-er as well)....I'm a wanna-be writer as well. Never been published, except for in the anthology created this spring at the Vermont Young Writer's Conference.

I've tried to read a couple books about writing, but personally I just get really bored by them. I realize how important they are, especially for a beginning writer like myself, but I can't get into them because for me writing is about experiencing something new through a character that I may never get to experience myself. I own The Elements of Style by William Strunk, Jr. but I have been given to understand that that's more of a reference point than a read-and-become-better type book.

Basically, I joined this group because in that first entry, gerg mentioned that we'd discuss reading from a writer's perspective. I love doing that with my writer friends. So I'll start.

I just read a short story by Kelly Link (about ten minutes ago actually) that rocked my world. It was called (not sure if Touchstones is right for this or not) The Faery Handbag and it was AWESOME

Hallo all...just joined the group (and actually I'm a relatively new LibraryThing-er as well)....I'm a wanna-be writer as well. Never been published, except for in the anthology created this spring at the Vermont Young Writer's Conference.

I've tried to read a couple books about writing, but personally I just get really bored by them. I realize how important they are, especially for a beginning writer like myself, but I can't get into them because for me writing is about experiencing something new through a character that I may never get to experience myself. I own The Elements of Style by William Strunk, Jr. but I have been given to understand that that's more of a reference point than a read-and-become-better type book.

Basically, I joined this group because in that first entry, gerg mentioned that we'd discuss reading from a writer's perspective. I love doing that with my writer friends. So I'll start.

I just read a short story by Kelly Link (about ten minutes ago actually) that rocked my world. It was called (not sure if Touchstones is right for this or not) The Faery Handbag and it was AWESOME

Woops, got cut off there. Anyways, I loved it because the way the author wrote it, it was like she was emptying her mind into her diary. Everything just kind of came out, in any order she wanted. I've been having trouble writing lately, because I feel like I need structure and form...her style seems so easygoing, just mind-dumping. I rather like it.

Kaye, now I'm done. =)

C

Haha I'm such a loser leaving three messages in a row...but I felt the need to point out that in my first message, I meant to say "for me READING (not writing) is about experiencing something new through a character that I may never get to experience myself."
My bad. I'm honestly done now. =)

C

What genres are the members of this group writing in (i.e. literary fiction, nonfiction, romance)? Do you read mostly in your own genre, or do you refresh yourselves by reading things you'd never write? I write historical fiction and nonfiction, and read a lot of history for research purposes. Good historical novels have always been my favorite reading, but I also read a lot of contemporary literary novels and mysteries.

My "background" (read: four year degree) is in journalism. I've done some freelance arts reporting and other non-fictionish stuff. I also occasionally write short stories and recently started a website where I write humorous pieces, reviews and other drivel.

My writing proclivities are broad and reflect my reading interest. I find that my reading habits effect my writing habits rather than the other way around.

Some of my favorite books on writing:

1. Writing in General and the Short Story in Particular by L. Rust Hills.
2. On Writing Well by William Zinsser
3. Aspects of the Novel by E.M. Forster (more about books themselves then writing, but still informative).

Haven't read the Stephen King book, though I'm sure there is a copy sitting around somewhere.

I'm not a great (nor published) writer yet, but the small sketches of stories I have are fiction, some fantasy. I like to read fiction and fantasy, but with a good enough plot or characters, I like historical fiction and sci-fi as well. I try to read everything I can, and that way I'll have "experienced" more diverse things, so I can incorporate them into my work. I also read as many different authors as I can, because then I can see different authors' styles, and begin to develop my own. The way I see it, it's a little like "you are what you eat"...as in "you write a combination of the styles you read".
Doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it. =)

And yourself?

C

A good one is Lawrence Block's Telling Lies For Fun and Profit. I also really appreciated Ralph Keyes' The Courage To Write.

Margad asked what genres we all write in, and I will answer that question, but first I feel the need to voice my stance on the issue of genre:

Do we have to?

It seems to me that discussions of genre, which cubbyhole for which book, what's real and what's less valuable, all that is disruptive and counterproductive. Literary fiction is, if you think about it, just another genre for a particular audience (albeit a priviledged one) with certain expectations. Like every genre (if we must use the term) there is good and bad literary fiction.

Personally I would be happiest if all bookstores simply shelved everything alphabetically. Imagine the interesting stuff you would run into.

So I write (so called) literary fiction, (so called) historical adventure, (so called) contemporary romance. Also I've got a lot of nonfiction in print. My best known academic work is English with an Accent: Language, Ideology and Discrimination in the U.S.

Hello, just found and joined this group. I've only had a few short stories published in literary magazines, and book reviews in our newspaper and online, but I keep writing.

I like some of the writing books suggested. I did find Bird by Bird: some instructions on writing and life useful, and it's one of my favourites. Others that I could recommend are Dear Writer by Carmel Bird (wicked sense of humour), The Writing Book: a workbook for fiction writers by Kate Grenville, Writing Your Life: a journey of discovery by Patti Miller, The Writer's Reader: A Guide to Writing Fiction and Poetry edited by Brenda Walker, Word for Word: an inspirational workbook for writers and teachers of writing edited by Hilary Beaton and- yes, I'll stop now- Kevin Brophy's books, Creativity: Psychoanalysis, Surrealism and Creative Writing and Explorations in Creative Writing. These last two are real mind-expanders, and remind me why I love writing and reading so much.

I'm writing a law textbook for the Oxford University Press, and have also published articles on various legal topics. I have zero ability to write fiction!

Liz

Liz, do you want to write fiction? I was looking at your profile, I think you could definitely dabble in it! Reading is the best way to learn how to write--it lets you see what you can get away with and what styles you would want to work with...

I've published a few creative non-fiction and fiction pieces, but am just beginning as a writer. My favorite writing books are by Oakley Hall; he taught most of my writing teachers at the UCI MFA program. There's The art and craft of novel writing and How fiction works. They've gotten me a considerable distance.

Margad asked:


*** As I said earlier, I'm not yet "published", but I plan to write in the Christian fiction genre. And, yes, I read a lot of books in that stream, too. My work-in-progress is a Christian chick-lit book, sort of being aimed at the "Love Inspired" line by Steeple Hill publishers.
I read a lot of books in different genres, too... Not just Christian fiction. I also love Mystery, Memoir, etc. :o)

Hmm... That didn't work right... Should've been a quote from Margad, but it didn't come through... Sorry about that.

(Ya'll know what it should've said anyway, so I won't post it again).

For those that might be thinking of creating a language for their stories, a very good book is Holly Lisle's Create A Language Clinic, which is the first book in a Worldbuilding series that she's working on. I had the opportunity to work my way through it before it was made available to the general public, and was very pleased. I'd tried muddling my way through some of the conlang sites before, and mostly given up--- too much effort for too little return, especially when it's research for the actual writing. (I'd rather be getting words on paper, or keyboard, as the case may be.) This was much more effective, and I was able to get usable results in a reasonable amount of time.

Just joined the group, seems to be a llively discussion. I've just recently had publication success in a few small reviews, and will begin an MFA at UVA this fall.

I'd second most of the fiction suggestions about esp the Gardner and _13 Ways of Looking at a Novel_ . As far as poetry craft goes, there is an excellent series put out by U of Michegan called "Poets on Poetry" the collection features books by everyone from Charles Wright to James Wright, from Alice Ostriker to Anne Sexton. I would recommend the books by Phillip Levine and Donald Hall to get your feet wet. Mary Oliver has also put out a couple excellent books on poesy, _Rules for the Dance_ is a great little handbook for anyone wishing to devote some though to meter and rhyme

I agree with Greenery, that genre is counterproductive. I've had a discussion similar to that with a friend who likes to write fantasy. Who's to say that fantasy, mystery, sci-fi etc can't also be "literary"?

I write "literary" fiction - but I wouldn't hesitate to steal something from another genre. What's important to any endeavor, in my opinion, is that it avoid dishonesty and dogma.

I hesitated, actually, before I wrote the word "genre," but I do think it's useful to be able to broadly categorize types of books. After all, what are tags all about? I find it difficult to categorize my own writing, actually, other than in the very broad category of "historical fiction," which I am finding quite unhelpful in steering me to agents likely to be interested in my work. But almost every agent I've talked to stresses the critical importance of being able to categorize one's novel properly. And I'm curious about what type of work the other members of this group are doing. It seems to me that mizbook's Christian fiction and lizw's law textbooks are quite different endeavors. And it's interesting to me that greenery writes in so many different--for lack of a better term--genres. Can anyone suggest a better word to use when discussing what type of writing we do?

Since agents and publishers want to know what genre my novel is so that a) they can determine whether it is something they represent/publish and b) that it is something they can sell, I can live with the term. And, like Margad, I think genre is a useful shortcut word to use when discussing what we write. :)

I write historical fiction, usually set at least partially in Scotland. The current tome is set during the Great War, but I've previously written about the mid Victorian period and the mid 18th century. Sadly these works remain unpublished, although I've had a few short stories published in magazines.

My favourite writing related book is The Seven Basic Plots by Christopher Booker. It's a wonderful read and really helped me examine the way I construct my plots.

Genre is limiting, so I won't go there. But the short stories I have written this summer (just to give you an idea of what corner of the literary globe I am sending to) will mostly be sent to small journals--some well known--some not so well known: Glimmer Train, Georgia Review, Ploughshares, One Story, Northwest Review, Cut Bank--to name a few.

what has happened to the message box? Too tiny... I'll post when it gets fixed.

I write mostly on spirituality, but also historical fiction. And got lots of screenplay ideas, who hasn't?

I, too, love Bird by Bird, and On Writing Well also. And the screenplay books, which talk alot about plot and structure, taught me a lot as well.

People who have pointed out that the publishing biz is structured around the idea of genre are absolutely right. That's how they think. And if we want to talk about the business end of things, then genre is a reasonable approach. What's hot in thrillers, what the romance editors are looking for.

I'm more interested in storytelling in general. What goes into telling a good story that will find an audience through the written word. This question is actually relevant to some kinds of non-fiction as well as fiction, as anybody who has ever taught knows. Kids respond best when you can couch the material you're trying to pass on inside a narrative.

I do write across genres, as somebody noted, but no matter what I'm writing I've got the same challenges to deal with. Character motivation, conflict, plotting, etc.

Nice group! I've been reading/referring to Dwight Swain Techniques of the Selling Writer, it was reccommended to me by Cheryl Anne Porter, when I took a creative writing class with her.

lbmatthews, one of the best classes I took was a scriptwriting class (I was majoring in journalism at the time, with an option in theater).

Another big influence was Joan Didion's "On Keeping a Notebook."

I just finished Poetry As Persuasion (The Life of Poetry) by Carl Dennis which was very insightful regarding the different voices of poetry; what he considers as voice of authority; different persons and their effects on poems; political poetry; myth in poetry, etc. Very helpful, and if it doesn't make one a better writer, it certainly makes one a better reader.

Now I'm beginning to read Rhyme's Reason by John Hollander and am in awe of Hollander's talent, tenacity, and wit in writing a book about the different forms and roles of rhymes and rhythms using the rhyme or rhythm he is explaining. Wow.

Q: Do people here consider literary criticism a helpful tool to their writing? I haven't read any of the books mentioned here so far, so I'm not sure what they are.

Literary critcism, to me, is helpful after the fact. What I mean by that is, let's say I finish a story or novel and am in the middle of projects--in that time, I pick up some critiques of Fitzgerald, or Hemingway, whatever. What I learn from those "literary Critiques" is how the books/stories were taken and read. Then, going back to my own work and the final drafts, I have an insight as to what the greater purpose of the piece is--or if there even is one. I think good literary criticism just expands the depth of a piece by exposing the dark corners usually ignored.

The kind of literary criticism I love is along the lines of Paul Fussell's Abroad, which I'm reading now. I've been meaning to read it ever since I saw it mentioned in a review of Alain de Botton's The Art of Travel, which looked beautifully packaged but not particularly deep. Fussell limits his subject to English travel writers between the wars, which may seem narrow but leads him to some great ideas about travel writing as a whole.

Criticism like his gives me a quick survey of part of the tradition, which I need to be aware of as a writer, and leads me to overlooked classics (The Road to Oxiana). Plus he's witty and engaging and really a master in his own right. I'm looking forward to The Great War and Modern Memory--I've seen it named as one of the best books of the 20th century...

I stay far away from literary criticism while I'm writing. I've been trying to think of a good analogy to explain how I feel about this, and all I've come up with is a not so great one, but here goes:

Ever been pregnant? You don't think about what's going on inside you in a lot of detail (unless you're having a troubled pregnancy, in which case, none of this applies to you). But you might sit down and read medical journals on the whole process. How the mother's state of mind might be relevant to the health of the developing child, how too much or too little of one vitamin might mean disaster, etc etc.

And now what? You've got a lot of information, and most of it is no use at all, except to make you nervous. You're so nervous you stay awake at night rehashing everything you've eaten and done since the day you got pregnant. The only sure thing at this point is that sleeplessness isn't a good thing for you or the kid.

The essential things that go into a novel (in my view): an understanding of the storytelling contract (between teller and audience), the skill to tell a story in a way appropriate to the medium of your choice (print, film, etc), persistence and self discipline. I really don't need to know what the litcrit people are discussing at their conferences. That will just distract me and clutter up the creative process.

This may sound very confused. Normally I'd save it and re-read it later, make some changes before posting. But as technical matters stand right now, it's all or nothing. Here goes.

Hello all! Lurker and semi-published writer (they appear in fan group magazines to a limited audience) positing some thoughts.

Writing books: I have always thought the Elements of Fiction Series from Writers Digest Books as very instructive. Written by writers for writers they cover every aspect of writing. (I think there are nine books in the series, and I have six right now.) The one I turn to the most, it seems, is Characters and Viewpoint by Orson Scott Card.

Stephen King: Started to read his On Writing and put it down. Never got back to it. Based on these comments, will have to go back and try again.

Genre... Um, yeah. Hate the box.

My writing tends to not want to be categorized. I write everything from literature to fantasy, science fiction to caveman. I can not write just one box. I think I may need multiple agents when I start trying to publish novels.

I like to read about what I like to write. Anything. Lately, I've been going through some of the gothic novels people keep shoving in my hands. (Yes, its to shut people up.)

Hey :)

I can agree whole heartedly with people who recommend On writing: memoir of the craft I found it utterly inspiring and fun to read!

I'm just an amateur writer (yet!) and am therefore thankful for these reading tips! :)

Thanks to whoever recommended Betsy Lerner's The Forest For the Trees. In fact, I have read it before--at the time I was a bit turned-off my its levity, but I want to go back and give it another chance.

Same library, also picked up Anais Nin's The Novel of the Future. Fingers crossed. (I like Anais Nin, anyway, so it's not like me to be that objective.)

Hello everyone, new to this group as well. I'm aspiring to be a writer of short stories, and eventually novels, but currently I find myself mainly writing bits on my blog, columns and the like.

I can wholeheartedly recommend On Writing by Stephen King as well. I really enjoyed the structure of the book. The first part can be considered an autobiography and it really strengthens a big message of the second part; write about what you know.

If you're a fan of Stephen King's books and a writer, this is a must read, as it really gives wonderful insight into the way King writes, strenghts and weaknesses. His emphasis on character-based writing, his tendency to be a bit too long-winded; it's all understandable once you've read this and can be a great help to find 'your' way of writing.

I agree- dont like anything else stephen King has ever written except The Shining, but On Writing was very memorable and inspiring. Would definately recommend!

I agree On Writing was excellent. Another rather autobiographical book which I enjoyed was Three Weeks With My Brother by Nicholas Sparks. He didn't really go into how to write, but is was interesting anyway.

That's an interesting post!
I have been pregnant and I guess I just had the opposite approach. I read everything about it, fascinated by the science of it all! It didn't make me more nervous, I just felt more informed. That's how I feel about lit criticism. I don't necessarily refer to it in order to write, but it does inform my writing perhaps in very subtle ways. I guess it just depends on individual approach to writing and reading

In addition to On Writing, one of Stephen King's novels is worth reading for its insights on writing. I avoided reading Misery for a long time because it sounded so gruesome (and parts are), but when I finally read it, I was fascinated by the way he portrays the main character's writing process. And there are some good insights about "genre" vs. "literary" writing.

I invite Utah residents or those with an interest in all things Utahn to join me in the Utah Thing group:

http://www.librarything.com/groups/utahthing

Hi!

I like a lot of the suggestions presented here. The King book, "On Writing" is very good, but I actually like "Danse Macabre" much better. Even if your main interest isn't horror fiction, its a good model of how to approach literacy in your area of interest.

Wow! Its been years since I read Janet Burroway's "Writing Fiction" in undergraduate school. Its a really good book for anyone considering writing fiction.

Hi all,
I'm new here. I write mostly kid's nonfiction, although I am shopping around a YA novel and working on a second. I have a bunch of the books you all have recommended--I'm kind of a junkie about books on writing. Annie Dillard's The Writing Life, while not exactly a how-to, is amazing. She's such an elegant writer.

Because of writing SF (and tie-in at that) I tend to get asked about advice on "how to become a writer". I tend to start by suggesting not works on how to write a particular genre but with real back-to-basics stuff like Mother Tongue by Bill Bryson which outlines the simple fundamentals. The failure of some wannabe writers to understand the structure of a sentence in English, and the different meanings to homonyms, is frightening. That book remains handy for those moments when I can't recall the difference between affect and effect as well!

I think I read all the 'How to Write...' books when I was a teenager and came away with some general principles. They all pretty much amount to: read a lot, write a lot, eavesdrop a lot*. After that it's just detail which you'd pick up from reading a lot of your chosen genre anyway!

*so you get a feel for how different people express themselves and a better handle on giving characters distinct voices.

I do, on occasion, try to read books about writing, but I can never concentrate on them. I read tons of teen/YA fiction books, which is also what I write. The only thing I won't read is anything that strikes me as being too close to my own writing style or plot line. I will immediately put the book away or return it to the library.

Absolutely essential - Revising Fiction: A Handbook for Writers by David Madden..
I stumbled across it when I was in college at UIowa's bookstore and, while I don't use it religiously, I find that the questions it has you ask of so many things are 100% worthwhile..
Other than that, any book that will help you master all the basics is worthwhile.. I try to fill my writing shelves with reference books and dictionaries, either to find research on existing things or find ideas to combine and create radically fantastic weirdness..
Oh, and Neil Simon's book, about his writing life, though I cannot remember the title and don't own it, is fantastic, especially if you've ever been involved in the theatre..

Hi all, I'm a new member to LibraryThing and still pinching myself to make sure I haven't died and gone to heaven!
I spent most of my life wishing I could be a writer but 'knowing' I couldn't. (I know that sounds feeble.)
Now turned fifty, I've joined U3A, (ask me), and attend their Creative Writers Group. I'm now writing short-stories, poetry and song parodies. And I'm having the time of my life.
I've gained a lot of inspiration and motivation from the books of Julia Cameron, especially 'The Right to Write and The Artist's Way.

Jaysee

Hi all,

I also find inspiration from Julia Cameron's The Right to Write. And Kate Grenville's The Writing Book. I facilitate a writer's group for primary age girls at the school where I work, and I find the philosophy behind Cameron's work inspires me to provide an arena for the girls to find their unique voice without imposing the idea of good writing/bad writing. All writing is valid.

I've enjoyed reading all your comments and look forward to reading more. I've published a number of feature articles on health and/or spirituality for a small magazine and, in a prior incarnation, one very dry research piece for a peer-reviewed economics journal. I was a writer long before I realized it. I make money with my writing as an academic editor (occasionally a book doctor) and donate my time as a volunteer writing teacher at a "neighbourhood learning centre" in Western Australia.

Genre is an interesting topic. Ursula LeGuin is certainly testimony to one who has bridged literary and sci-fi. Doris Lessing has her own category: feminist literary surrealism, I think I would call it. In my university sociology class, my prof liked to give true/false questions, requiring a defense of your answer for every third question. I loved to deliberately give the "wrong" answer and defend it. I never failed to get full credit. Perhaps that's what we need to do as writers to defeat the genre block. Like Hugh Hefner, maybe we can get our memoirs classified as science fiction--or whatever else the agents and publishers are hot for.

Browsing bookstores by genre can be entertaining. I once found Karen Elizabeth Gordon's The Deluxe Transitive Vampire shelved with the occult books and Hugh Hefner's autobiography shelved with science fiction.

I aspire to writing fiction and have written an occasional brilliant paragraph. I even once wrote a poem I liked. The best things happen when I'm not thinking about my writing.

I loved Natalie Angier's Woman: An Intimate Geography. It is so rare to find wit, fine writing, and serious science within the same covers. I adore Lewis Thomas and consume all his anthologies with the passion of a very fine dark chocolate. I also enjoy the essays of Gonzales-Crussi, who always exercises and expands my vocabulary as he educates me.

I primarily use Natalie Goldberg exercises in my classes, with a sprinkling of Julia Cameron and a dash of visual art to stretch the imagination. I do not fear writing teachers who do not publish. The finest coaches were never players. It is the knowledge and love of the game and the gift of communicating its nuances that create a great teacher.

I have outlined four books but find myself always working on someone else's project, currently helping a refugee from the 1956-57 Hungarian Revolution write his memoirs.

I have found Milan Kundera's The Art of the Novel to be one of the most useful books about what novels are, what they can do, and the tradition of novel writing. It's different from books like King's On Writing, with it's biographical account, or Auerbach's Mimesis, with it's critical approach, in that Kundera engages with the Western tradition of novel writing, beginning with Cervantes, to show what it has done, is doing, can do.

Mmmhmm.. Off-topic, sorry, but I couldn't resist..
Referring to what bookcrazed said about shelving at the bookstore, I was browsing the reference section at B&N yesterday and found the Idiot's Guide to Sex sitting next to the Idiot's Guide to Writing a Novel..
Is there something the bookstores know that we don't??
A little humour for your day..

Nancy Aronie wrote a great book on writing called Writing From The Heart. She runs writing workshops on Martha's Vineyard, at the Omega Institute In Rhinebeck, NY, and elsewhere. Her thing is positive reinforcement- "Tell ( ) what you loved about his/her piece." Her workshops helped me finally finish my novel, JOURNEY BACK, which was published in May, 2006 by allowing me to overcome those negative voices inside that said my writing wasn't good enough

Hi,
I've just joined what looks to be an intriguing and resourceful group. I also aspire to be a published writer. Having just joined I'll spend some time catching up with old messages and hopefully be able contribute some solid ideas later on. I will say, however, that I thoroughly enjoyed Stephen King's On Writing and read it pretty much straight through. I'm not a huge fan of his; (think his characters are too one dimensional) but I think he's fantastic at plotting.

to greenery:
This is in response to your August 2 posting. I agree wholeheartedly. I remember reading a biography of O' Henry in which it was said he absolutely couldn't bear to talk about his writing process; for him it was slow and painful. Your analogy comparing writing to pregnancy is excellent. For myself; I'm extremely undisciplined as a writer. That's my greatest problem. The last thing I need is to bog myself down with literary critics or even some writers on writing. I can't adequately describe my dismay when I read John Gardiner's exegesis on how he would spend hours making sure the rhythm of one sentence was write in one single paragraph of Grindel. My major challenge is simply to finish one of the myriad projects I've started. Thanks for your insights.

to DMartin -

Years ago I was given the following advice for providing feedback:
- Start with a positive general comment
- Mention the things which could be improved (i.e. "section X doesn't quite work for me because of Y - maybe if it were more like Z?")
- End with another positive comment

I think it's important for writers to get constructive criticism from external sources without allowing that to re-enforce the internal negative critic. I think you do need someone outside the work to appraise it, simply because as its creator you can be too close. I have trusted beta-readers - friends who are not afraid to say "what the heck are you doing there, Mags?" - who go through things before they reach the editor.

Just signing on here. I keep forgetting that I want to read Gardner's Art of Fiction. Thanks for the reminder, all. I've been writing for years, non-fiction, and mostly on the web. I'm cranking away very slowly on a book about intellectual creativity, and am getting ready to dive into my second year of NaNoWriMo.

I've read King's On Writing several times and always learned something from it, but this year, working out ideas for my NNWM novel, I think I finally "get" it. The plots of his novels run together in my mind, and I haven't even bothered with his last few books, but I'm always in awe at his skill in depicting characters and settings.

There are SO many books on writing out there. Most, unfortunately, are written by writers who either can't write good fiction so they write about writing it, or you have a book that runs along the lines of a camp fire singing of Kumbaya.

Stephen King's is the best one I've come across so far, but even it I would caution to the new writer to read it and toss it away - in the words of Bruce Lee.

The best book on writing style is Strunk's 'The Elements of Style.' Otherwise, in all honesty, the best way to learn to write is to . . . Read! Read other writers, then just write. I found I couldn't really know how to write until I had finished my first novel. That's the best book on writing you can ever read . . . your own!

As a writer needing the odd prod, David Lodge inspired me most, I reckon.
The Art of Fiction and Consciousness and the Novel are two powerfull poking sticks, in my view.
Technically lit crit I suppose, but served the same purpose. For me.
For newbie writers, the 38 most common fiction writing mistakes (and how to avoid them) by Jack m Bickham is a great check list

Does it ever seem to you that writers generally make more money teaching writing or writing books about how to write than by actually writing their substantive fiction or literary nonfiction? Sometimes it seems like the world is swarming with writers and starved for readers. I guess I'm feeling a bit discouraged and would like some LibraryThingers (who else?) to talk me out of it.

Hi margad:

I think the better point is that, in general, writers hardly make any money. Last time I did any serious looks into it, the authors who make money (and support themselves) with writing is less than 2%. If you look at the amount of people who claim to be writers (that's including the people who talk about writing yet never actually produce anything), it can be discouraging.

An aquaintance of mine is on her second mainstream book, but it far from pays the bills. She even wins national accolades - one from Amazon.

Any writer (who's really a writer) will tell you that the art is a cruel master - but one we'd gladly put up with. The satisfaction of seeing your work in print makes it all worthwhile.

The love of writing itself is what keeps us going. Then too, there is a magic about writing about someone you don't like, then killing them off, that delivers a certain . . . catharsis. Ha.

I know better than to quit my day job, but I do have to say that having people read my stories and telling me they enjoyed them is a very wonderful feeling. I guess it's like a very expensive, time consuming hobby that my family has been gracious enough to put up with me undertaking.

So true, so true. The presenter of a workshop I took asked us to say why we write, and my answer was, "I can't not write."

I usually answer "I'm too stupid to do anything else" :-)

I did close a very lucrative consulting company to devote myself full time to writing, after a friend died of cancer at 42. I haven't regretted it once. Life is too short and uncertain not too follow your dreams.

I noticed early on that writing is a popular activity because there is very little equipment to buy!

I also notice that most folks do not understand that writing can be learned, thinking cannot...so the quality of what is written comes from the quality of what is thought, imagined, researched, understood, etc.

Finally, I notice that a lot of people write who never read...without the love of reading, there is no way to understand the difference between reading as an experience for the audience from going to a movie or listening to a recording.

Just a couple of thoughts.

I particularly like "A Word or Two Before You Go" by Jacques Barzun and "On Writing Well," and "Inventing the Truth" by William Zinsser.