The Woman in White 1: Preamble- The Second Epoch (the story continued by Marian Malcombe)

A place to discuss the beginning of The Woman in White by Wilkie Collins

Thanks for setting these up unlucky! (are you really unlucky??)

Just checking and getting ready to read!

I won't get a copy until the week after next, but am looking forward to reading it.

My Penguin Classics edition has an introduction, a chronology of Wilkie Collins's life, further reading, appendixes (A,B,C) and notes.
I've read the chronology (what a productive writer/author!) and the first part of the introduction.
At the beginning of the intro's second part there is a "Note: if you do not wish to discover the secret of 'The Woman in White', read the rest of this introduction after you have finished the novel".
I'll follow this advice and start with the main text of The Woman in White tomorrow. Hoping to read part II and III + the appendixes in about two months.

Which edition(s) of The Woman in White are you going to read? Are there any supplements/appendixes in it?

I know the web has many sites on Wilkie Collins and TWiW. I assume I'll visit some of them now and then. Learning about new (to me) authors and books is very exciting. And so will the reading of this Victorian 'sensation' novel be as well, I'm sure.

I also have a Penguin Classics but it doesn't have a chronology of Wilkie Collins's life, further reading or appendixes. It does have an introduction and preface. I'm not going to read the preface but I'll probably go back and read the introduction once I'm 20-100 pages into the book. I want to be able to have my own initial reaction before I read the introduction. I'm planning on starting on Saturday.
What do you think of it so far? Do you find that introductions help you appreciate the work more, this one in particular?

>6 unlucky:, unlucky

As I wrote in #5 I've read only the first part of the introduction, and this part is much about sensation novels in general and the reception of The Woman in White among "ordinary" people and critics (newspapers). Quite interesting, and yes, I think intoductions often help me appreciate a work more, and this one in particular as it seems like the reception of it was overwhelming. I'll have to read some chapters of the novel myself before I can tell if I agree with the readers of the late 19th century. I imagine this will be a GREAT read!! :)

I am reading a Wordsworth Classics edition. It has two forewords by Wilkie Collins, one for the 1860 Edition and one for the 1861 Edition. He felt he had taken a risk by shifting between narrators, clearly not as common an approach as it is today. In the second foreword he comments on how appreciative he is that the readers have not shunned him for his daring.

I was engaged in the story from the start. Coming off a fairly heavy read, I was absolutely ready for some drama. Looking forward to the rest of the book.

I just picked up my Vintage edition, 2007, which has no intro or appendices or any extras. Not even a table of contents! But it was either that or a mass market edition which I can't tolerate! I'll be ready to begin in a day or two.

Hi folks

I picked up an Oxford's World's Classics edition today and it has all manner of introductions/prefaces, chronology, notes and appendices. Looking forward to it, it's been a while since i read a classic.

Some words from the back cover of my Penguin Classic:

"Matthew Sweet's introduction explores the phenomenon of Victorian 'sensation' fiction, and discusses Wilkie Collin's biographical and societal influeces. Included in this edition are appendices on theatrical adaptations of the novel and its serialization history."

And:
"The Woman in White is the first and most influential of the Victorian genre that combined Gothic horror with psychological realism."

Now I wonder if 'sensation' (fiction) is another word for a combination of Gothic horror and psychological realism.

Maybe there should be some superstition as well.
At the end of ch. VIII ('THE FIRST EPOCH, The Story begun by WALTER HARTRIGHT, of Clement's Inn, Teacher of Drawing') miss Halcombe says to the narrator (Mr. Hartright):

"Mr. Hartright, you surprise me. Whatever women may be, I thought that men, in the nineteenth century, were above superstition".

How should I interprete this remark? Do 'sensation' novels contain some kind of superstition, and were/are women more superstitious than men?

AND: Is Laura Fairlie the woman in white???????????

Hi Kjellika

I think that Victorian “sensation” fiction gets its name from the “sensational” events it relates – events that are shocking and dramatic to readers at that time. I don’t think that it necessarily includes elements of gothic horror or superstition although there’s a liberal dose of both so far in The Woman in White. I'm no expert though.

I would interpret the comment from Miss Halcombe as one of the many instances in the early part of the novel where she has less than positive thing to say about her fellow women. She seems to consciously and deliberately behave somewhat less “ladylike” than her sister. The specific comment is probably a reference to the common opinion at the time that men were more rational than women…less swooning and such like!

As for Laura Fairlie being the woman in white….i hope not!

I also don't see how the Woman in White could be Laura Fairlie...but perhaps a relative? I guess we'll just have to read and find out. Do I sound like a teacher or what?

I am enjoying the tag-team narration, although at this point in the book we've just read the two voices: that of Walter Hartright and Vincent Gilmore. I think having different narrators will keep this longish story moving right along with the fresh voices. So far I've really been drawn in by the book, just kind of bummed out that I haven't been able to carve out much time for reading this past week.

I just received the Oxford World's Classics version from the library today. Is anyone reading the 1861 "New Edition" of The Women in White? Looking forward to starting my read tonight.

I think my PENGUIN CLASSICS is the 1861 "New Edition" since it contains two prefaces: One PREFACE (1860) and another PREFACE TO THE PRESENT EDITION (1861).

Yes, mine is also the oxymoronish (if that is even a word) 1861 "New Edition" via Barnes & Noble Classics. It has the timeline of wilkie Collins and The Woman In White as well as an Introduction by Camille Cauti from Columbia University. I like to get right into the book and then go back and read the intro after I form some of my own opinions.

I'm finding quite a few surprises re: women's place in the mid 19th century. That her attorney is so set on securing the inheritance for her rather than it going to her husband seems quite astonishing given that women had so few rights over their finances.

I howled at the line that Mr. Gilmore said when talking to Laura: "Even lawyers have hearts, and mine ached a little as I took leave of her." Apparently lawyers had bad reps even then!

And isn't Mr. Fairlie, the uncle, a piece of work!!!??

Mr. Bumble in Oliver Twist is reported to have said, "If the law supposes that, then the law is a ass, a idiot!"

Sounds like lawyers have had bad reputations for at least a couple of hundred years. It seems to me Shakespeare had a few unpleasant things to say about lawyers, too.

I have the Penguin Classic edition. I won't read the Intro until I've finished the book as there are usually spoilers.

I've reached the end of the first epoch and have found the story so far to be every bit as engaging as The Moonstone, which I really enjoyed, a true page-turner.

Some of Marion's diary entries are beautifully poignant. I love Collins' writing style which draws the reader slowly but surely into the story. And I love the epistolary format.

I received the Oxford World Classics edition Saturday. It has lots of notes (very annoying) and much pre and end matter, which I almost never read. I've just started.

The most interesting thing so far is the Italian language master Pesca, who can't swim. I got a kick out of that. For some reason I have a real affinity for character names and am always looking for ways the name comes into play. I find a fish that can't swim very interesting. We'll see.

>19 digifish_books:: I am also enjoying Marian both for her personality, which Wilkins develops beautifully, and her journal writing. I am very undisciplined about keeping a journal, but I also have a great more activity in my life than these women do.

>20 geneg:: LOL. Speaking of names, the only way I can remember Count Fosco is to recall his corpulence and think "Count Fatso."

I'm pretty much ignoring the footnotes, mainly because I've read a lot of Brit Lit and already know what a frock coat (just one example) looks like.

Moving on to the second epoch...

Anyone know if 'fosco' has a meaning in Italian? The Fairlie name struck me as well -- it seems accurate except for the uncle, who is definitely not fair! Hartright, of course -- his heart is in the right place. And what are we to make of Sir Glyde?? It sounds a little slithery to me!

I just stumbled across this book discussion and was interested to see how everyone is enjoying the book. I read it at the beginning of the year and loved it!
Collins' characterization is wonderful throughout the book with each character having his/her own voice and personality shine through.

teelgee, I was curious what Fosco might mean so I looked it up online and it was translated as "gloomy", "grim", or "dim".

Loving it so far, it's a real page-turner for a victorian novel. While not a major part of the book, the sections involving the Fairlie uncle are hilarious.

I hadn't noticed the appropriate naming of characters - well spotted.

I finished the first "Epoch" (what a funny choice of names) last night. I do have to say I am enjoying this novel, after taking a month to get through the rather slim Silas Marner - it's good to be back on a pageturner! (Although I was a bit worried over reading two Victorian classics back-to-back, but they're like chalk and cheese, really.)

Before I read the comments above, my thoughts:

Marian Halcombe is bloody tough on women, isn't she? But even though I want to berate her for being mean to the sisterhood, she's terribly entertaining and fun and a really fascinating character. I loved how she was slowly revealed by Mr Hartright - as a bit of a babe (no constraining corsets, phwoar), but then you see her face and eeek! run for the hills!

With the multiple narratives, I wasn't sure if Wilkie Collins would have been able to pull it off. I didn't particularly pick up on any distinguishing styles between Mr Hartright and Mr Gilmore's sections; but then Miss Halcombe's section is just delightful! (Although enough already with the women bashing!)

I'm finding the constrained Victorian lives quite fascinating, in a very I'm-glad-to-live-in-the-21st-century way. I personally cannot see why Mr Hartright can't just sweep Miss Fairlie off her feet and marry her. Stupid bloody society. (But then, I'm sure we'd have no interesting plot in this book.) But not just that, he can't even say that he loves her, and has to leave immediately! I do hope all this emotional pain has some sort of karmic payback and he ends up happily ever after all (with some beautiful Honduran).

I do have to quote this, I thought Mr Hartright's description of Mrs Vesey was so funny:

Some of us rush through life, and some of us saunter through life. Mrs Vesey sat through life. ... Nature has so much to do in this world, and is engaged in generating such a vast variety of co-existent productions, that she must surely be now and then too flurried and confused to distinguish between the different processes that she is carrying on at the same time. Starting from this point of view, it will always remain my private persuasion that Nature was absorbed in making cabbages when Mrs Vesey was born, and that the good lady suffered the consequences of a vegetable preoccupation in the mind of the Mother of us all.

This is the fourth gothic novel I've read recently - after Rebecca, Cold Comfort Farm, and some modern gothicky novels. I think I'd better choose a different genre for my next novel!

Now, having read the above comments: excellent spotting of the names! I hadn't picked them up at all. And my edition is an old second hand Wordsworth Classics, no foreword, no afterward, no notes. (I kind of like it that way, myself. The extras can get in the way, rather.)

I'm at the same place as Wookie and would like to share a few thoughts.

Collins doesn't seem to like women very much. So far the only woman that is interesting at all is Marian Halcombe, who sounds pretty butch. Why do strong, sensible women outside of George Eliot all sound either butch or bitchy?

This book reminds me of the Stephen King novels I've read (okay, I read the Stand). He relies on coincidence too much to generate plot points. Some aspects of the book don't flow as smoothly as others.

I admire his shot at the multiple narrations and in some ways he does do a good job with it, but, once again Marian Halcombe's voice while presented differently, sounds to my ear a lot like Mr. Hartright's.

The page turner quality of this book goes a long way in forgiving the above.

I'm really enjoying it, and since I have the time, I'm going to try to bust my way through to the end.

ETA: I can't shake the idea that Miss Fairlie and Anne Catherick are twins and the nut of the story is why they were separated.

Since I saw the musical version, I'm getting that nagging feeling that I know what's going to happen, but I'm trying to enjoy the ride. I loved the description of Mrs. Vesey and was a little surprised at Marian's attitude toward women. My first thought was 'well, of course, a man wrote this." Though the whole coincidental aspect of meeting The Woman in White and her association with his destination was annoying, it works for the gothic novel aspect.

I've read somewhere that Marian is possibly based on George Eliot,AKA Mary Ann Evans, who Wilkie Collins respected a lot.She was very strong and independant, eloping with the man she loved and so on.

Rubbah, I was wondering if Marian was based on someone, she was just so well defined and written and such a character! And George Eliot does make sense as a model, she was definitely intelligent and independent.

I did put down most of Marian's derogatory comments about women to the fact that the book was written by a man (not that women can't be nasty about women in general), but was that part of George Eliot's character as well?

That reminds me, I never did get around to reading a George Eliot biography. I meant to during Middlemarch.

I don't know if it was an aspect of George Eliot's character, but I was also puzzled why Marian is so nasty about other women. Maybe she's just highlighting how different she is from other women? Or is she making fun of how men view women?

>17 teelgee: And isn't Mr. Fairlie, the uncle, a piece of work!!!??

hehe... wait 'til you get to his narrative, teelgee! ;)

Oh I have -- LOVE it!

I know that I am running late, but I just wanted to pop in and say that I finished the First Epoch at last. I loved the comments on the meaning of the names. That really adds to the book. I must say that I was kind of surprised when the marriage took place. I was thinking that the woman in white would appear at the wedding and then stop it. I am really enjoying this book. Unfortunately, I will be out of town for the next two weeks, so I can't continue until I get back. But I can't wait to read some more.
--BJ

I'm very late to this party, having just finished the first epoch this minute, but am enjoying the book so much that I'm sure I'll plow right through the book and finish reading it over the next few days. Love the multiple narrators. I read and enjoyed The Moonstone a few years back. The Woman in White is proving just as entertaining. I read Sarah Water's Fingersmith a couple of months ago and certainly see where she might have received some inspiration. Off to the next epoch....

theaelizabet, I agree about Waters. Glad you're enjoying it!

I've finally joined in the discussion. My holiday set me back!

What a pleasure this book is! Hartright charmed me from the start, lovely considerate man that he is. Professor Pesco had me laughing my head off (I doubt he has a role later - too bad)
Marian is fantastic! I think she is negative about women simply to excuse her own very modern "masculine" behaviour. She can't be an outright feminist so she poo-poos women to divert away from her own enjoyments (billiards instead of drawing; mystery solving instead of piano playing)
Laura of course is a typical dull ingenue, but it's hard to be an interesting ingenue.

I like the mix of dark and crazed emotion with the Woman in White mystery and polite conventional society at the Limmeridge House.

I wasn't really sold about reading book but am now positively charmed. I can't wait to meet Sir Glyde...

I'm listening to the librivox.org recording and it's very well done, a different reader for the different narrators. I really enjoyed Hartwright's narrative but Gilmore was so boring!

I find it quite engaging!