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1codyed
From Common Dreams:
My claim that Obama's first term is essentially Bush's III term is holding up quite well.
NEW YORK - With the health care debate preoccupying the mainstream media, it has gone virtually unreported that the Barack Obama administration is quietly supporting renewal of provisions of the George W. Bush-era USA Patriot Act that civil libertarians say infringe on basic freedoms.
And it is reportedly doing so over the objections of some prominent Democrats.
My claim that Obama's first term is essentially Bush's III term is holding up quite well.
2geneg
There is nothing unreported about this. Obama has been pushing for renewal of most of the provisions of the act for several months now. It's awfully hard to dial back acquired power.
I don't like it. The break in and search provisions without telling the person whose belongings are being searched is plainly unconstitutional and should be struck down. It was supposed to be used to find terrorists but its main use (to the tune of three out of four searches under the act) are being used for prohibition.
I don't like it. The break in and search provisions without telling the person whose belongings are being searched is plainly unconstitutional and should be struck down. It was supposed to be used to find terrorists but its main use (to the tune of three out of four searches under the act) are being used for prohibition.
3krolik
Pisses me off. Have been wondering if the realpolitick calculation was to hang back on the war(s) and related policies, in order to create some space for needed healthcare change. In fear of the hysterical reactions to withdrawl. But maybe it's Lyndon Johnson all over again. Time will tell.
4modalursine
I suppose the people who thought Obama was some sort of flaming radical are happier now (strange thing about that).
Candidate Obama made nice noises about the rule of law, but President Obama seems to be continuing a whole passel of Bush era outrages.
Maybe Cody wants to make a list. My candidates are:
Still mucking about with Blackwater (er now known as Xe corp)
Cant say about the "black sites", they're secret after all.
Still have a nice prison at Baghram to run and are still
"disappearing" people into it.
Not releasing Bush era memos
Not vigorously pursuing the whole torture thing. Suppressing pix of Abhu Graib, making believe it was all a few bad apples. (Round up some squadies and throw the book at 'em. Nice)
Oh, nearly forgot, looks like he's doing for Af-Pak what Johnson did for VietNam. I'ld say it'll take a year and half before those particular chickens "mature". But things move fast these days, so who knows?
Candidate Obama made nice noises about the rule of law, but President Obama seems to be continuing a whole passel of Bush era outrages.
Maybe Cody wants to make a list. My candidates are:
Still mucking about with Blackwater (er now known as Xe corp)
Cant say about the "black sites", they're secret after all.
Still have a nice prison at Baghram to run and are still
"disappearing" people into it.
Not releasing Bush era memos
Not vigorously pursuing the whole torture thing. Suppressing pix of Abhu Graib, making believe it was all a few bad apples. (Round up some squadies and throw the book at 'em. Nice)
Oh, nearly forgot, looks like he's doing for Af-Pak what Johnson did for VietNam. I'ld say it'll take a year and half before those particular chickens "mature". But things move fast these days, so who knows?
5Doug1943
Liberals think he is a closet conservative. Conservatives think he is a closet radical. I think he is ... on the surface ... a reluctant Cold War liberal.
I did have hopes that he could bring to the War on Whatever-It-Is some ability to appreciate aspects of social reality that is limited (the ability, I mean) among conservatives: an understanding of how important it is to be seen as the Good Guys, some empathy with the views of poor people in distant countries -- and that this would be reflected in our military and foreign policies. This sort of change would be at least congruent to recent thinking among some people in the military, regarding the increasing importance of counter-insurgency operations in the future.
There doesn't seem to be much evidence for this right now, but neither is there evidence of the opposite. Waiting is.
I did have hopes that he could bring to the War on Whatever-It-Is some ability to appreciate aspects of social reality that is limited (the ability, I mean) among conservatives: an understanding of how important it is to be seen as the Good Guys, some empathy with the views of poor people in distant countries -- and that this would be reflected in our military and foreign policies. This sort of change would be at least congruent to recent thinking among some people in the military, regarding the increasing importance of counter-insurgency operations in the future.
There doesn't seem to be much evidence for this right now, but neither is there evidence of the opposite. Waiting is.
6modalursine
Obama is a centrist, maybe a tad left of where the republican center used to be until the republican party center of gravity went off into Palin land.
If democrats saw a liberal or even a progressive in him, that was entirely wishful thinking; something that candidate Obama was slick enough to encourage without actually promising anything he could be held to.
I think the operative word here is "FIRE". Finance, Insurance, Real Estate. For the time being, its seems that FIRE is in the catbird seat and the administration , while it might be under pressure to throw some bones in other directions (big unions, perhaps?), in the end, FIRE is getting its way.
I figure that the US is big enough and stable enough that it cant be brought to complete collapse much before the year 2040, so that's jolly for me, though maybe not so much for my daughter and grandson.
If democrats saw a liberal or even a progressive in him, that was entirely wishful thinking; something that candidate Obama was slick enough to encourage without actually promising anything he could be held to.
I think the operative word here is "FIRE". Finance, Insurance, Real Estate. For the time being, its seems that FIRE is in the catbird seat and the administration , while it might be under pressure to throw some bones in other directions (big unions, perhaps?), in the end, FIRE is getting its way.
I figure that the US is big enough and stable enough that it cant be brought to complete collapse much before the year 2040, so that's jolly for me, though maybe not so much for my daughter and grandson.
7geneg
People in Germany in 1914 didn't think their world would collapse in less than ten years, either.
US is not to big to fail.
US is not to big to fail.
8krolik
>5 Doug1943:
I agree with much of that description but as a Cold War liberal myself I wish he would show more balls.
I agree with much of that description but as a Cold War liberal myself I wish he would show more balls.
9Doug1943
Well, there is no more Cold War Liberalism. That died with Vietnam. So he is rather in the same position that Jimmy Carter was -- forced to navigate a Ship of State that he really doesn't think much of, but whose course he can't change abruptly.
And he may be learning something from the response of the Russians and Chinese and Iranians to having a thoughtful, decent, non-arrogant American President to deal with. This plays well with German college students, but with the gangsters in power in these countries, not so much.
And he may be learning something from the response of the Russians and Chinese and Iranians to having a thoughtful, decent, non-arrogant American President to deal with. This plays well with German college students, but with the gangsters in power in these countries, not so much.
10krolik
>9 Doug1943: You're right about the gangsters, but I think the "end" of the Cold War is much exaggerated. And as for college students on this side of the water, I'm pretty familiar with them, and am fairly inured. In this forum I speak mainly as an Iowan. My inland island of enlightenment, blah blah, etc., etc.
11geneg
Has anyone paid attention to Obama's method of governance? As best I can tell, he is governing according to the vision of the FFs, a vision that Americans haven't been accustomed to for years. We are used to our Presidents acting as head cheerleader for legislation. that's not the Presidents role.
Many are the things I quibble with Obama about, but how he operates is not one of them.
Besides, he is a political genius. After months of Congressional debate for health care overhaul, we are headed toward the plan that he laid out on the campaign trail last year. He's going to get exactly what he wants and people are going to be scratching their heads and counting the number of empty graves, all marked Public Option, trying to figure out what happened. While we are paying attention to the circus that is "news" in this country, he's busy getting things done.
For those of you who don't know, Obama is fulfilling the role of President envisioned by the FFs, not something Americans are familiar with.
Many are the things I quibble with Obama about, but how he operates is not one of them.
Besides, he is a political genius. After months of Congressional debate for health care overhaul, we are headed toward the plan that he laid out on the campaign trail last year. He's going to get exactly what he wants and people are going to be scratching their heads and counting the number of empty graves, all marked Public Option, trying to figure out what happened. While we are paying attention to the circus that is "news" in this country, he's busy getting things done.
For those of you who don't know, Obama is fulfilling the role of President envisioned by the FFs, not something Americans are familiar with.
12timspalding
If he skips the State of the Union, and sends a paper version, like Jefferson, I'll agree :)
