Thematic reading, members design & propose a reading "course"

This is to suggest a new feature (I hope it's not out of place here in this thread).

Suppose that you'd developed from your own reading an idea of a set of books which in your opinion, when taken together, present an interesting "reading set", a kind of "course" which, if you were a college professor, you'd present as your course's reading-list.

Here I'd like to propose that LT mine its members' knowledge and create a new feature in which they may present thematic reading lists specifically designed to promote a deeper knowledge in any theme. I'd recommend that this be done with (that is, open to) the freest kind of arrangement---that is, thematic reading lists which are purposely multi-disciplinary and (wherever desired) multi-lingual as well.

What to name such a new feature?

How much interest is there in this?

Your comments welcome!

What to name such a new feature?

Lists

How much interest is there in this?

There is *high* interest in lists for a wide variety of reasons.

thank you for the comment in reply and, especially, for the pointer to the thread "recommend site improvements".

However, I don't yet see and understand how a "lists" thing answers the idea I'm proposing. In the matter of designed courses of reading proposed by members, how would "lists" arrange that? I wonder ...

The way I see "Lists" is that anyone could start (or amend) one.

Take the example that you propose. You are starting a reading list for a certain theme. You post your list. Others see it and copy down that information.

Alternatively, someone comes along and doesn't agree with your choice of books. That person might delete* a book and add two more that are more relevant or up-to-date.

You would, in effect, control the content of the list by its title.

*Actually, I doubt if there would be a deletion feature, but I sure would like one. More probably, others could only add content to the already created list.

How should "lists" differ from collections? Would it just be the addition of a recommended reading order? If you were creating a list on "how to become a mathematician" you would want to recommend a calculus text before a differential equations text. What else would be wanted?

Another difference is that a List wouldn't have to contain books that are in your library. In fact, it should probably contain works instead of books, but I can see that some people might want lists of editions as well.

"Lists" would not be attached to your "Collections" in any way. "Lists" are suggested reads for others. "Collections" are books that you catalogue on your own account.

Lists, as I see them, would not have a recommended reading order, although they could have. That could be included in the list description (e.g. "I recommend that you read the following books in the order presented").

What else would be wanted?

As the list is developed by others, you'll soon see what else would be wanted.

But what I have in mind would be defeated by others' altering a member's proposed reading list (though, on that point, there is every _good_ reason for a course-list maker to welcome and consider additions which are _suggested_ by others, yes, there I agree).

I suggest that you look at it as though you're an actual college or high school prof and the aim is to present to your class, your students, the reading "syllabus" (did I spell that correctly?) for your "course". While others' recommendations should be welcomed as interesting to the person creating the course syllabus, if those others had the freedom to amend the list at will, it would quickly lose the character which is the whole point:

_Your_ own course as indicated by a carefully-chosen set of related readings---which definitely implies a purpose and a point which informs your choices. Others, of course, probably would choose differently even if they were designing something of a similar (or the same) "thematic" course.

Am I making the idea clearer?

That's a good question and one which points up the distinction in what I'm proposing and, on the other hand, the typical uses of "lists" as these already exist in the site software.

One of the "hazards" involved here is the temptation to augment without end or limit. To be focused enough for usefulness, a "course" cannot become a catch-all in which just anything and everything imaginable can be included. The center of the reading list is formed around its author's inspiring "idea", the "point" of the thread that runs thoughout the reading list's elements.

I do understand what you're saying. It certainly can be done as you proposed. When the "Lists" feature will be developed/offered by Tim, that would be the place/time to *strongly* urge to have it developed as you would like.

A way to develop this idea is to have the Lists feature with subsets of different kinds of lists.

In the meantime, I'd recommend that you post your proposal somewhere on the Recommend Site Improvements group so it will be seen and considered.

http://www.librarything.com/topic/80706#1686452

SQ: Thanks. I have just finished doing just that. Thanks again for pointing me there.

You're welcome. I hope you eventually see what you're requesting right here on LibraryThing!

8, 9, 10> In the future, could you include message numbers in your posts (those that are a response to something) so we know which post you are responding to?

In the mean time, you can always work on your reading lists by creating a collection for each one, or by tagging it with something like "(name of theme) Reading List." Either one would allow you to pull up the list when wanted. You can put an ordering number in the Comments field, which is sortable, if you want them to be in a particular order.

There's a long discussion of Lists here.

I think there's room for both open and "locked" lists. In one case, other members would be able to contribute; in the other, they wouldn't.

Message 15: staffordcastle

"In the mean time, you can always work on your reading lists by creating a collection for each one, " ...

Yes, I think that is the best and easiest short-cut answer to the matter. This idea only occurred to me later, last night, after I'd logged out and was thinking things over. In the near term, your idea would work, I think.

A question as to how much "exposure" such member-created lists would enjoy comes to mind. Consider, for example, the fact that this wonderfully successful site has many, many thousands of members. What are the actual chances that you'd discover among them the people who've created interesting course reading lists even if you were looking for them?

You can publicise your remarkable list/collection in a talk post.

You could also link to them on your profile; but starting a thread in a group interested in your topic would probably be the most effective method.

This came up on the lists thread, but not everyone may go there. If you'd like to track lists before a new feature is implemented, you can create a WikiThing page for them. See http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/Help:Editing for Help on formatting pages. Creating is easy. Just go to WikiThing (link at the bottom of each page), enter a unique title for the list (e.g. Thematic Reading in Cognitive Science) in the search box on the left, and then click Go (not search). If there isn't already a page by that name, you'll be offered a link to create one. You could even create a Thematic Reading contents page that links to each list.

Of course, since it's a wiki, anyone can make edits, and you'll still want to advertise your theme read in a Talk post, but you can begin to share lists even before a new feature is implemented.

>20 SchanleyMedia:

Good idea. Actually, it's probably best to create your lists in your own user space:
- go to 'Your WikiThing page'
- choose 'Edit' from the menu at the top right
- create a new link on your page like this: [[/Listpage]]
- press the 'Save page' button (You may have to do this twice because of a bug)
- then, from your main page, click the new link that you have just created and you can start creating the list in your own Userspace

Actually, it may be useful to create a category for lists. I'll do that now.

Here's mine. Created a Template {{List}} as well as a Category. Starting to rethink if these should be in Userspace or Mainspace, though. The Category page isn't that useful if everything is under 'U' for User.

http://www.librarything.com/topic/80706#1691587

I appreciate all those comments and suggestions. Here are some thoughts concerning them. I went to the Wiki "Lists" link and had a look. Among thirteen "topics" twelve were shown as "dormant". This highlights what I mean when I say I think that, unless there is a "feature" which reads something like "Course Readings" where anyone interested could go to find _all_ of the currently available "Course Readings", the problem is one of having to use a seach on key terms; unless people adopt a universally-accepted key-term to designate a list of course readings, the person trying to find them all has to try any number of possible key terms.

Suppose you wanted to know if there was a member who'd compiled a recommended reading list for "An Introduction to Shakespeare" when you don't already know that such a thing exists or what it might be entitled? The possibilities are large. How would you find it? What key terms would you search? "Shakespeare" alone?

By the way, Noisy, I had a look at the list you created at your Wiki page and yes, so far as it goes, that's really a fairly good approximation of the basic idea I'm suggesting. The _only_ drawbck, again, is that from a practical standpoint, anyone interested in finding it would have to already know about its existence.

My hope is that with a feature somewhere, such as at the "Groups" pages, people members would discover in the normal course of their passages through the site that such a thing---which perhaps hadn't even occurred to them---exists here.

You see?

RE:
Message 19: staffordcastle

"You could also link to them on your profile; but starting a thread in a group interested in your topic would probably be the most effective method."

Yes, but,

Questions:

why would just any LT member who's interested in discovering whether there were any "Recommended readings for a course on..." think of going to my member-page?

what about those LT members who'd be interested in such course readings (if only they'd thought of them) but to whom the idea hadn't occurred?

If "course reading lists" are made an "ad hoc" matter, again, how much searching is required in order to discover that any given topic does (or doesn't) exist?

RE: message 22 by Noisy:

"Starting to rethink if these should be in Userspace or Mainspace, though. The Category page isn't that useful if everything is under 'U' for User."

Exactly. More thanks. (again)

--> 23

My hope is that with a feature somewhere, such as at the "Groups" pages, people members would discover..."

Then, perhaps you'd like to start a group for this? That might work. Using group tags, people would find your list/subject. You could post an introductory/welcome thread explaining how you would like the group to operate. You then could request that people submitting such lists each use a separate thread. A different thread could be also used to discuss the member lists and/or make requests for changes on the lists.

I think that people would not find the lists/this subject as quickly on the wiki as they would on the main LT pages.

Later, when LT officially creates Lists, you could either opt to keep your group or let it go dormant, depending on how you want to develop this topic (which, I think, is a great idea).

--> Message 26: SqueakyChu:

"I think that people would not find the lists/this subject as quickly on the wiki as they would on the main LT pages."

I agree. Those are very good guides for action.

"Later, when LT officially creates Lists, you could either opt to keep your group or let it go dormant, depending on how you want to develop this topic..."

True enough.

" ...(which, I think, is a great idea)."

Thank you, and thanks for the suggestions on groups.

You're welcome. I think your idea is great and could be of value to LibraryThing's content.

Now moved to Mainspace and linked from the main page.

RE:
---> Message 29: Noisy

Got it.

Nice! Thank you.

Noisy, thanks for taking the time to set this up. Sometimes I think all a project needs is a good example to get the ball rolling. If it takes off on WikiThing, that's just more tangible evidence of interest to spur on development of a fuller feature on the main site.

When I finally finish this paper I'm working on, I'll be able to spend more time on HelpThing again, and I'll reference this feature in the FAQ section for the Series help, since so many people get series and lists confused.

---> Message 31: caffron
this is not exclusively addressed to caffron; rather,

To whom it may conern, ;^)

I second all that!

When you do the FAQ, my first question will be,

how do I format (as Noisy has done) a list of my own making? That is, I can see the wiki HTML he used in creating the list _page- itself but not the textual formatting for his actual example list, "An introduciton to science" (or something like that).

So, I need a little primer on creating my list names and the contents within them. I have already created a "place" called "Recommeded course readings in..." in my user wiki page.

thanks,

P.

This is a really interesting topic. Should there maybe be a Thematic Reading group where people can post a message when there's a new list on the Wiki and people could talk about things like what lists they want and maybe work collaboratively on some?

32>

Really should be working on that paper...just had to check Talk first! :)

So until I get to the help creation page, here are some hints. Wiki syntax is a bit different from standard HTML. Please forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you and you've already tried this. (Also please forgive me if this comes out a jumble and I need to edit it...LT likes to abbreviate links and use brackets for touchstones, so I may have to format this answer a couple of times to get it right.)

Since you've already created your new page, you need to go to the new wiki page you created and click Edit (top right of the wiki page).

Once this opens up, use the following text as the first line:

{{List}}

That will make your page fit the new List template Noisy created.

Next type in some sample text to introduce the list. You don't need to apply any formatting to it.

Finally, for each item on the list, you'll need a line with a bullet point and a link. In wiki format, you use a # sign to create a bullet point and square brackets to create the links. So, for each book, this is formatted as follows:

# [http://www.librarything.com/work/#### Title]

For each link, you need to substitute the LibraryThing work number for #### above. When you are on a "book" or "work" page, the work number follows /work/ in the URL at the top of the page. So, for instance, the ever-popular Twighlight is work number 8384326. After the URL and a space, type the title of the book as you'd like it to show up in the link.

If I haven't completely confused you, click on Noisy's example, then click on Edit to reveal the wiki syntax as an example. Just make sure to click cancel so you don't accidentally change the list.

Does this help?

But can't the work number change if it gets combined? I think there's a link format that uses the ISBN but I'm no LT expert.

Oh, I can't claim expert either...just intermediate. I was cribbing off of Noisy! :) But a quick test seems to indicate that /isbn/########## will redirect to the appropriate work page (/work/####)

Having looked at proximity1's page beginning, I should mention another point about wiki sytax. Single brackets are used to create http links, but double brackets are used to create links within the wiki itself. http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/Help:Editing gives lots more information. Wiki syntax isn't really hard, but it takes a little practice, and I think it's even a bit easier to get confused if you know HTML, because it definitely isn't the same.

Tim mentioned maybe "banging out" a List feature pretty quickly on another thread, and he has been on a roll lately, so wiki syntax could be moot...soon...I'm thinking two weeks. ;)

I like the wiki page solution. I've started a list on my current hobby. The history of the Russian Front during World War II. For right now, I'm just putting it on my wiki page, not in the list page that Noisy created. If this takes off, then the portal into the list of lists is going to need more structure. Perhaps it should be broken down by subject matter?

Anyway, here is my first pass at a reading list for the Russian Front. http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/User:Fredbacon

---> messages 34 & 36: caffron:

"Does this help?"

Absolutely. For me, this qualifies as "very cool" stuff. THANK YOU very much. Sorry about the distractions from your paper; but I appreciate your misplaced priorities! ;^)

---> message 33 : aulsmith

"Should there maybe be a Thematic Reading group where people can post a message when there's a new list on the Wiki and people could talk about things like what lists they want and maybe work collaboratively on some?"

I like that. GOOD idea--and, to be fair, others have suggested the same as a likely evolution of the idea at some stage. Meanwhile, Noisy's posts and tweaks of the wiki pages are a means to the envisioned "end"-thing-y.

>38 proximity1:

Glad it helped! Still haven't added the info to HelpThing; got sidetracked changing some other pages to reflect colored checkmarks.

But priorities can't be too misplaced...I put my LT activities on a resume and my internship boss agreed while proofing it today that it would likely be seen as positive, not padding. (I'm a soon-to-graduate librarian.)

Given how many people wanted lists, I'm somewhat surprised that more people haven't tried this. Then again, wikis do take some getting used to.

> 40 Given how many people wanted lists, I'm somewhat surprised that more people haven't tried this. Then again, wikis do take some getting used to.

I'm quite proficient with wikis, but setting up lists on the wiki is not what I want from a "lists" feature. I want a list feature to be integrated with the LT catalog, not in a separate wiki -- I already have a bunch of those.

Messages 40 & 41

There's our answer. lquilter, I see your point.

Has anyone created a Thematic Reading group yet? I've searched groups, and don't find one. Also, I added fredbacon's list about the Russian Front in World War II to Noisy's main page of lists. Hope that was okay to do!

I don't know of a "Thematic" Reading group, but Reading Globally does themes from time to time. Check them out.

43: No, I haven't had time to master the html required to link to this discussion and the wiki. Feel free to start one up.

Don't know if any of them will be what you're looking for, carport/43. But you might click on the 'theme reads' tag (from the 'see more tags' link under 'Group Tags').