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1belleyang
Mainstream publishers now want to pubish comics/graphic novels. Houghton Mifflin published is it's first "The Best American Comics" last year. (The editor considers comics contained "little outrages." ) But comics have always been seen as a rebellious form of art.
Question: What do you think of the mainstreaming of comics? It was considered lowbrow, now some call it ART.
Question: What do you think of the mainstreaming of comics? It was considered lowbrow, now some call it ART.
2jayqq1953
Like all genres, the bulk of it is lowbrow, but works of art do emmerge. "Maus", for one. "Nausicca of the Valley of Wind" is another. In talented hands it is an excellent medium for expression. There is no reason why graphic novels/comics should not be a part of mainstream publication.
3Tane
I think that popularising comics and graphic novels is a bit of a double-edged sword... of course it's great that a larger audience will be opened up to them, however with a larger audience I wonder if perhaps some of that rebellious streak may get watered down? I couldn't say for certain if that would happen, but I suspect it might... still, so long as there are companies producing the really good stuff that only we on the inside know about, then we'll be ok? :P
There are a lot of comics/graphic novels these days that are a lot like drawn tv-shows, or movies... I'm thinking of things like Y the Last Man here, and perhaps if a bigger audience could be found, then more of these sorts of visual stories could find the light of day?
I'd like to hear what someone with a greater knowledge than I have has to say on this subject...
There are a lot of comics/graphic novels these days that are a lot like drawn tv-shows, or movies... I'm thinking of things like Y the Last Man here, and perhaps if a bigger audience could be found, then more of these sorts of visual stories could find the light of day?
I'd like to hear what someone with a greater knowledge than I have has to say on this subject...
4LolaWalser
Hmm, comics rebellious? Maybe some of the "underground" ones, and the individualistic, small-print fanzinny stuff, but otherwise...
In the US, the newspaper comics and the post-war industry oriented toward children had (has) a huge audience. I can't think of any example of this production being particularly, let alone deliberately "rebellious". In Europe, BD has been a literary staple for many decades. Much, much before the "graphic novel" concept emerged in the States there was a solid European adult audience for "drawn literature", and the general public perception of the genre was (still is) significantly different from the American one.
So to me it sounds odd to speak of "popularising" a form that's already wildly popular.
In the US, the newspaper comics and the post-war industry oriented toward children had (has) a huge audience. I can't think of any example of this production being particularly, let alone deliberately "rebellious". In Europe, BD has been a literary staple for many decades. Much, much before the "graphic novel" concept emerged in the States there was a solid European adult audience for "drawn literature", and the general public perception of the genre was (still is) significantly different from the American one.
So to me it sounds odd to speak of "popularising" a form that's already wildly popular.
5bluetyson
Yeah, when the odd mainstream Marvel comic is selling a couple of hundred thousand titles, and 15 years ago way more than that, and 70 years ago I guess way more than that again, it isn't too underground.
Not to mention manga. That is about as mainstream as you can get.
Belleyang, from what you have been saying, you are pretty much a newcomer, and not overly familiar with comics in general? You might want to grab a few history books on the subject and have a read, as a suggestion.
There are titles like that, but the same is true of books, movies, or whatever.
There's an argument for say, EC comics being rebellions. Not for Uncle Scrooge, Archie, Spider-Man or Superman though. Or even Road to Perdition, 300, A History of Violence and things like that.
Not to mention manga. That is about as mainstream as you can get.
Belleyang, from what you have been saying, you are pretty much a newcomer, and not overly familiar with comics in general? You might want to grab a few history books on the subject and have a read, as a suggestion.
There are titles like that, but the same is true of books, movies, or whatever.
There's an argument for say, EC comics being rebellions. Not for Uncle Scrooge, Archie, Spider-Man or Superman though. Or even Road to Perdition, 300, A History of Violence and things like that.
6LolaWalser
Ahhh, this is where I jump in with a rec ! :)
Just finished and hugely enjoyed: Art out of time, a wonderful collection of little-known strips (newspaper and a few comic book titles), which gives a very good idea of the vagaries of the form in its first stage--where the comics came from, as it is. Yes, it is limited to the US (it's easier to note when one is NOT speaking of the American tradition! :))
But maybe it would be useful to have some history of the famous ones for a side-by-side comparison. Any suggestions?
Just finished and hugely enjoyed: Art out of time, a wonderful collection of little-known strips (newspaper and a few comic book titles), which gives a very good idea of the vagaries of the form in its first stage--where the comics came from, as it is. Yes, it is limited to the US (it's easier to note when one is NOT speaking of the American tradition! :))
But maybe it would be useful to have some history of the famous ones for a side-by-side comparison. Any suggestions?
7belleyang
>5 bluetyson: Yup, I'm definitely a newcomer, but loving what I'm reading. Can you recommend a history of comics, Bluetyson? I am trying to read and make comics at the same time, so I tend to linger over the art and the flow of text. Just blew my mind that Jimmy Corrigan forces the reader to think, to slow down, to come back and clarify in our own minds.
8belleyang
>5 bluetyson: clarification...I never used the term "popularizing." I said mainstreaming. Lots of older houses are jumping to publish comics. I am one such who has been asked to try my hands at it by an editor working at a formerly old-fashioned house, known for its literary classics. I didn't know what a graphic novel was or that memoir-like materials and histories are being told through a combination words and images.
In fact, the problem for me is that the editors aren't all that familiar with the format. When I saw Jimmy Corrigan, I thought, this is fantastic, and wow, a traditional editor would edit this book to death because he/she would want the flow of a conventional narrative.
In fact, the problem for me is that the editors aren't all that familiar with the format. When I saw Jimmy Corrigan, I thought, this is fantastic, and wow, a traditional editor would edit this book to death because he/she would want the flow of a conventional narrative.
9belleyang
>6 LolaWalser: LolaWalser, can you elaborate on the European perception of "drawn literature"?
10LolaWalser
Gladly, but that could be a whole new group! :) Unfortunately, I'm just about to leave, and I wouldn't want my intro to be inadequate... For starters, let me mention Hugo Pratt and his most famous creation, Corto Maltese. Last September I had the opportunity to see an exhibition dedicated to Pratt's Corto Maltese in Rome (it travelled all over Italy after that)--that's a great example of European artistic or literary comic.
Ooops, I'm being chased away--sorry, will continue later!
Ooops, I'm being chased away--sorry, will continue later!
11LolaWalser
Okay, before I start multiplying examples, here's my take on the general Euro attitude towards comics...
It seems to me there's been a much older tradition of acceptance of the comics as ART in Europe, compared to the mainly commercial US stance. (Please no mentions of Jerry Lewis! :))
I speculate that this has something to do with a) format b) marketing c) favoured themes/heroes. In US the dominant form is the DC/Marvel thin softcover and the small paperbacks. Except for anthologies and collections, there were almost no hardcover comics at all until the advent of the "graphic novel". In Europe, small softcovers and comics magazines are typically sold at the newstands, but the ubiquitous, usually hardcover BDs have always been available in ordinary bookstores.
So there's an old connection between comics and "serious" books, or rather books in comics form, such as Tintin and Asterix. Graduating from these to BDs with more adult themes (or at least treatment) is simple and doesn't require transfer to "specialised" stores or "dorky" attitudes. In fact, it's striking that the well-known American cliche of a comics "dork" is practically incomprehensible to Euros--EVERYONE reads comics.
Until fairly recently, there weren't any DC/Marvel type comics (and even now I've only seen translations). Euro comics tend to present stories in longer chunks, often complete, devoid of external advertising.
Finally, the content. The sort of DC/Marvel superhero story is for some reason fairly rare. There's plenty of "super" heroes, but not that many caped supranaturals in tights duking it out with Cosmic Powers. The genre exists, but it is only one of many--it seems to me there's a much greater VARIETY in European comics, formal, thematic and even artistic. Comics artists tend to work independently--what commercial collectives there exist, such as in Italy (Sergio Bonelli Publishing etc.) are much smaller than the US counterparts, and nowhere near to dominating the market as Marvel and DC do, not even the local ones.
I threw these things out any which way, but I'd like to illustrate some of the variety by examples--see if you can find US parallels, in format, theme and commercial success.
I already mentioned Corto Maltese (you can see some of Pratt's watercolours at that link), as popular in Europe as he's unknown in the US. This is true for many comics, such as Dylan Dog, Jeremiah, Blueberry, or Iznogoud (this is really random...)
Just consider the diversity of styles, themes and artists published by Dargaud!
It seems to me there's been a much older tradition of acceptance of the comics as ART in Europe, compared to the mainly commercial US stance. (Please no mentions of Jerry Lewis! :))
I speculate that this has something to do with a) format b) marketing c) favoured themes/heroes. In US the dominant form is the DC/Marvel thin softcover and the small paperbacks. Except for anthologies and collections, there were almost no hardcover comics at all until the advent of the "graphic novel". In Europe, small softcovers and comics magazines are typically sold at the newstands, but the ubiquitous, usually hardcover BDs have always been available in ordinary bookstores.
So there's an old connection between comics and "serious" books, or rather books in comics form, such as Tintin and Asterix. Graduating from these to BDs with more adult themes (or at least treatment) is simple and doesn't require transfer to "specialised" stores or "dorky" attitudes. In fact, it's striking that the well-known American cliche of a comics "dork" is practically incomprehensible to Euros--EVERYONE reads comics.
Until fairly recently, there weren't any DC/Marvel type comics (and even now I've only seen translations). Euro comics tend to present stories in longer chunks, often complete, devoid of external advertising.
Finally, the content. The sort of DC/Marvel superhero story is for some reason fairly rare. There's plenty of "super" heroes, but not that many caped supranaturals in tights duking it out with Cosmic Powers. The genre exists, but it is only one of many--it seems to me there's a much greater VARIETY in European comics, formal, thematic and even artistic. Comics artists tend to work independently--what commercial collectives there exist, such as in Italy (Sergio Bonelli Publishing etc.) are much smaller than the US counterparts, and nowhere near to dominating the market as Marvel and DC do, not even the local ones.
I threw these things out any which way, but I'd like to illustrate some of the variety by examples--see if you can find US parallels, in format, theme and commercial success.
I already mentioned Corto Maltese (you can see some of Pratt's watercolours at that link), as popular in Europe as he's unknown in the US. This is true for many comics, such as Dylan Dog, Jeremiah, Blueberry, or Iznogoud (this is really random...)
Just consider the diversity of styles, themes and artists published by Dargaud!
12belleyang
>10 LolaWalser:, 11 LolaWalser--Thank you so much for all this information. It would take me years of reading and research to learn the above. I will come back to your exposition and look up the suggested titles. I was hoping for rich discussions and here you are! Very interesting, too, that the comic nerd/geek doesn't exist in Europe.
Do you know all this simply from reading alot or are you involved in study or publishing of this art?
Do you know all this simply from reading alot or are you involved in study or publishing of this art?
13LolaWalser
the comic nerd/geek doesn't exist in Europe.
Uhhh--as a cliche, not really. There definitely exist comics "maniacs". :) Maybe it's more about the content of the stereotypes: the, say, exact equivalent of the American high school "jock" doesn't exist either, although obviously there are kids very into sports and so on.
Do you know all this simply from reading alot
Living and reading! Just to place my references and define context, I grew up in Cyprus and Syria on both European BD (Tintin, Asterix, Lucky Luke etc.) and American fare (DC and Marvel, superheroes, Archie comics). When I was 14 we returned to Europe (Croatia), in the eighties, which was the golden age of comics and graphic art--there were dozens of comics magazines, in format usually similar to "Heavy Metal", though not all that eroticised; anyway, they varied too much for a single comparison.
I drew (comics too) until I went to the university, but I never had the drive and stamina for executing even a long story, let alone developing a career. I'm just a happy consumer now.
Btw, my knowledge is obviously limited, but I'm happy to share it--I hope others will contribute their experiences and opinions on the USA/Europe differences.
I'm going to make a list of some of the comics I grew up reading (or still read)--please forgive me if not all links are in English, I try to link to English ones whenever possible. You might also check my "bande dessinée" tag for some of the comics I've entered into my library.
Uhhh--as a cliche, not really. There definitely exist comics "maniacs". :) Maybe it's more about the content of the stereotypes: the, say, exact equivalent of the American high school "jock" doesn't exist either, although obviously there are kids very into sports and so on.
Do you know all this simply from reading alot
Living and reading! Just to place my references and define context, I grew up in Cyprus and Syria on both European BD (Tintin, Asterix, Lucky Luke etc.) and American fare (DC and Marvel, superheroes, Archie comics). When I was 14 we returned to Europe (Croatia), in the eighties, which was the golden age of comics and graphic art--there were dozens of comics magazines, in format usually similar to "Heavy Metal", though not all that eroticised; anyway, they varied too much for a single comparison.
I drew (comics too) until I went to the university, but I never had the drive and stamina for executing even a long story, let alone developing a career. I'm just a happy consumer now.
Btw, my knowledge is obviously limited, but I'm happy to share it--I hope others will contribute their experiences and opinions on the USA/Europe differences.
I'm going to make a list of some of the comics I grew up reading (or still read)--please forgive me if not all links are in English, I try to link to English ones whenever possible. You might also check my "bande dessinée" tag for some of the comics I've entered into my library.
14belleyang
I wish I could make a sound of a whistle here. Quite an amazing background. Looking forward to your entries.
15LolaWalser
It’s simplest to quote Wiki in English so I did that whenever possible—but only if there were graphics on the page! The following comics would have been well known to most Euros of my generation and thereabouts, and as far as I know, are still reprinted. Some are American classics, such as Steve Canyon, Mandrake, The Phantom, Prince Valiant, Rip Kirby etc., some are limited to European and possibly Continental audience (Italian Westerns, adventure series, mystery and gore). In no special order, and nowhere close to exhaustive:
Modesty Blaise
Romeo Brown (remembered because also drawn by Jim Holdaway)
Johnny Hazard by Frank Robbins, who consciously but very successfully copied the style and themes of Milton Caniff’s Steve Canyon (Belle, you might be interested in the depiction of the Japanese and the Chinese in these strips, the stories are set during WWII.)
Lee Falk’s Mandrake and The Phantom
Which brings me, by visual association to Diabolik, and this one by rhyme to Satanik, written by Max Bunker, whose collaboration with the great, unsurpassed Magnus created one of the greatest (in all senses) Italian comics, Alan Ford, a terrific, astoundingly original, superbly drawn satire of modern (specifically Western) life and political (specifically capitalist) ideologies. I have to note that Bunker’s and Magnus’s collaboration collapsed eventually and the series was taken over by others, followed by a critical drop in visual and thematic quality. (I never refer to non-Magnus “Alan Ford” at all.)
Alex Raymond’s Flash Gordon and Rip Kirby deserve at least a quick link… I’ll continue later!
Reading old comics is like watching old movies, you’ll discover where everything you see in the new ones came from.
Modesty Blaise
Romeo Brown (remembered because also drawn by Jim Holdaway)
Johnny Hazard by Frank Robbins, who consciously but very successfully copied the style and themes of Milton Caniff’s Steve Canyon (Belle, you might be interested in the depiction of the Japanese and the Chinese in these strips, the stories are set during WWII.)
Lee Falk’s Mandrake and The Phantom
Which brings me, by visual association to Diabolik, and this one by rhyme to Satanik, written by Max Bunker, whose collaboration with the great, unsurpassed Magnus created one of the greatest (in all senses) Italian comics, Alan Ford, a terrific, astoundingly original, superbly drawn satire of modern (specifically Western) life and political (specifically capitalist) ideologies. I have to note that Bunker’s and Magnus’s collaboration collapsed eventually and the series was taken over by others, followed by a critical drop in visual and thematic quality. (I never refer to non-Magnus “Alan Ford” at all.)
Alex Raymond’s Flash Gordon and Rip Kirby deserve at least a quick link… I’ll continue later!
Reading old comics is like watching old movies, you’ll discover where everything you see in the new ones came from.
16reptiliancandy
I spent a lot of time learning about comics throughout college. Last year I had the opportunity to attend lectures by Scott McCloud, author of Understanding Comics. I asked him where he'd like to see comics heading in the future. He said he wanted to see them anywhere and everywhere.
I think comics have been a largely ignored as an artistic/literary (since it obviously is a combination of the two) genre, which was more or less revolutionized in America by Art Spiegelman's Maus. I believe that may even have been where the term "graphic novel" originated--I seem to remember that a reviewer used it in describing Maus.
I'm not sure about comics being rebellious. Like with any other genre, it seems that it can be whatever the author(s) intend. Comics were definitely seen as rebellious during the time of Seduction of the Innocent. And now...it depends.
The same goes for the low-brow vs. art debate. Look at movies...some are total fluff appealing to lowest common denominator, and others are truly works of art. The same is true of comics and of many genres. It varies from piece to piece.
I think comics have been a largely ignored as an artistic/literary (since it obviously is a combination of the two) genre, which was more or less revolutionized in America by Art Spiegelman's Maus. I believe that may even have been where the term "graphic novel" originated--I seem to remember that a reviewer used it in describing Maus.
I'm not sure about comics being rebellious. Like with any other genre, it seems that it can be whatever the author(s) intend. Comics were definitely seen as rebellious during the time of Seduction of the Innocent. And now...it depends.
The same goes for the low-brow vs. art debate. Look at movies...some are total fluff appealing to lowest common denominator, and others are truly works of art. The same is true of comics and of many genres. It varies from piece to piece.
17belleyang
>16 reptiliancandy: Thanks. Can you tell us more about your courses of study? What was taught and what kinds of background did your instructors have? I noticed that comics in local college curriculum for the first time this year.
18LolaWalser
which was more or less revolutionized in America by Art Spiegelman's Maus.
I think this is true. The production in other countries apparently meant nothing to the development of the graphic novel in the US (of course, I don't know about personal influences on individual artists).
I think this is true. The production in other countries apparently meant nothing to the development of the graphic novel in the US (of course, I don't know about personal influences on individual artists).
19reptiliancandy
That's why I said in America. And I don't mean that as a slam to works that came before it in Europe and Japan, I'm just saying it's when lit snobs (of which I don't consider myself a part) started paying attention to comics as a genre.
20reptiliancandy
17--I'm sorry, I should have specified, I didn't take courses on comics (I only had to read one graphic novel throughout my college career). I just spent a lot of time studying on my own. Not only that, but I happened to be going to school when they had a lot of comics-related events going on. I saw Art Spiegelman speak, as well as Scott McCloud, and a panel composed of local comic creators Dave Coverly and Jan Iriwin (who do Speed Bump and Vogelein, respectively); also on the panel were: Al Feldstein (artist, writer and editor for E.C. comics and Mad magazine), Marie Severin (colorist and cartoonist for E.C. and Marvel), and Len Wein (who is a cartoonist and editor, most noted for creating DC's Swamp Thing and Marvel's Wolverine).
Then I wrote my senior thesis on female identity in comics. So, I just spent a lot of time reading up, basically. If you want more books/articles I can look at what sources I used for my thesis....
Then I wrote my senior thesis on female identity in comics. So, I just spent a lot of time reading up, basically. If you want more books/articles I can look at what sources I used for my thesis....
21belleyang
>20 reptiliancandy: reptiliancandy--can you elaborate on "Then I wrote my senior thesis on female identity in comics"? What general themes and trends did you identify?
22reptiliancandy
21 bellyang--it was a bit broad really, but I think my thesis boiled down to...sommething along the lines of that the stereotype that female cartoonists write autobiographies (in my research, such a stereotype was mentioned) stems from their lack of real identity in the male escapist-fantasy superhero comics. So, in order to depict real women, they depict themselves...can't get much more real than that. My focus was Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis and Persepolis 2...but I also ended up touching on some history of women in comics, with some mention of international comics as well (though nothing specific, more along the lines of talking about manga, etc.). I didn't want the scope to get too out of control, but I could have written much more. I can elaborate further if you'd like, or I'd be happy link you some of research materials if you'd like.
23belleyang
>22 reptiliancandy: reptiliancandy--do elaborate! Please link, too. We are interested in what you've excavated and thunk! Can you post your thoughts in the thread "The Art of Comics" Please?
24YorickBrown
>22 reptiliancandy: I know it's hard to sum up a thesis in a few sentences, so I submit my response in full awareness that I'm not getting the finer details. I apologize in advance for any misrepresentation.
I think a lot of comics writers, male and female, write autobiography if they don't relate to superheroes. Consider Maus (and In The Shadow of No Towers), Blankets, American Splendor, and anything by Joe Sacco (which is really journalism more than autobiography, but he puts himself in the story in ways that journalists typically wouldn't). And there's It's A Bird, which deals specifically with the irrelevance of superhero-fantasy next to life-tragedy.
Can you talk about European comics like Persepolis being a reaction to superheroes? As LolaWalser discussed above, that's a really different cultural context, and provides writers more different options than just Superman or Family Circus.
I think a lot of comics writers, male and female, write autobiography if they don't relate to superheroes. Consider Maus (and In The Shadow of No Towers), Blankets, American Splendor, and anything by Joe Sacco (which is really journalism more than autobiography, but he puts himself in the story in ways that journalists typically wouldn't). And there's It's A Bird, which deals specifically with the irrelevance of superhero-fantasy next to life-tragedy.
Can you talk about European comics like Persepolis being a reaction to superheroes? As LolaWalser discussed above, that's a really different cultural context, and provides writers more different options than just Superman or Family Circus.
25HoldenCarver
>16 reptiliancandy:
Maus, for all it did do, is not the first place where the term 'graphic novel' originated. It was first popularised by being applied to Will Eisner's A Contract With God, though it had been used a couple of times before that.
belleyang, I'd recommend you check out some of Eisner's works, if you haven't already. Not only did he popularise the term 'graphic novel', but he also gave his name to the major comics awards - the Eisners.
(Edited because on further research it appeared I had some of my facts wrong. Mea culpa.)
Maus, for all it did do, is not the first place where the term 'graphic novel' originated. It was first popularised by being applied to Will Eisner's A Contract With God, though it had been used a couple of times before that.
belleyang, I'd recommend you check out some of Eisner's works, if you haven't already. Not only did he popularise the term 'graphic novel', but he also gave his name to the major comics awards - the Eisners.
(Edited because on further research it appeared I had some of my facts wrong. Mea culpa.)
26reptiliancandy
HoldenCarver--Right right. I did know that, just forgot. I know there was a huge to-do made of Maus, and I think it popularized the genre. It made a bunch of lit snobs go "ooh, comics that are legit". I'm not arguing this POV, just saying that seems to be how it happened.
27reptiliancandy
Yorick Brown--No, in a nutshell you've got it. I focused on the female aspect because, as I said, I did find that there is a trend among female cartoonists to do autobiographical work.
I didn't delve into European tradition too much; however, in one interview, Satrapi talks about her early exposure to comics--her cousins had Tintin comics. She said, " but in Tintin you don't have any female persons, so I couldn't identify with any of it." She said herself she doesn't come from a culture of comics, but this shows that what exposure she did have she couldn't find a place in. So maybe it's not just superhero comics. While Tintin isn't a superhero per se, he could still fall into the male escapist fantasy category (I'm saying maybe, I'm not educated enough to say for sure) because of...well, he's a reporter who goes on many whirlwind adventures. He's a humble character who gets pulled into the slings and arrows of heroism. The best superheroes are similar--those who are called to greatness, a la Peter Parker, but who at heart, are the everyman. That's where men relate to them, and thus have their fantasies fufilled by them.
I spent the a lot of my paper just talking about comics basics, some stuff I found in Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics and I related it back to Persepolis. Towards the end of the paper I got into some of the possibilities of why this stereotype of female autobiographical comics existed.
I could easily right a book on the subject (well, maybe not easily, but I certainly found enough interesting material to talk about). What I covered barely scratched the surface. Not only that, but I'm somewhat of a new comer to comics, so I know I could have written a better paper had I spent even more time with the material.
I didn't delve into European tradition too much; however, in one interview, Satrapi talks about her early exposure to comics--her cousins had Tintin comics. She said, " but in Tintin you don't have any female persons, so I couldn't identify with any of it." She said herself she doesn't come from a culture of comics, but this shows that what exposure she did have she couldn't find a place in. So maybe it's not just superhero comics. While Tintin isn't a superhero per se, he could still fall into the male escapist fantasy category (I'm saying maybe, I'm not educated enough to say for sure) because of...well, he's a reporter who goes on many whirlwind adventures. He's a humble character who gets pulled into the slings and arrows of heroism. The best superheroes are similar--those who are called to greatness, a la Peter Parker, but who at heart, are the everyman. That's where men relate to them, and thus have their fantasies fufilled by them.
I spent the a lot of my paper just talking about comics basics, some stuff I found in Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics and I related it back to Persepolis. Towards the end of the paper I got into some of the possibilities of why this stereotype of female autobiographical comics existed.
I could easily right a book on the subject (well, maybe not easily, but I certainly found enough interesting material to talk about). What I covered barely scratched the surface. Not only that, but I'm somewhat of a new comer to comics, so I know I could have written a better paper had I spent even more time with the material.
28LolaWalser
I didn't delve into European tradition too much
But surely Satrapi's work itself belongs to the European tradition?
She said, " but in Tintin you don't have any female persons, so I couldn't identify with any of it."
I find this incredibly odd. Like practically all the Euros I know and not a few Arabs (and I'm betting the pre-revolution Iran was even more "europeanised" than Syria in this regard), I grew up on Tintin and Asterix, identifying with the main heroes to the hilt. I'm currently buying (several books at a time) both series for a trio of American girls aged 6 to 11 and they are loving them!
IME, there's more of a gender gap later on, in adolescence, and it's true that in high school there were more boys than girls into comics as much as I was. But I'm not sure this was due to a lack of female heroines...
I did find that there is a trend among female cartoonists to do autobiographical work.
But does this set them apart from the males, especially (but far from exclusively) within the genre of the graphic novel? As far as I can see, it's a general, not gender-specific trend at all.
Male autobiographers in comics (those better known): Robert Crumb, Seth, Ware, Clowes, Spiegelman, Joe Sacco, Harvey Pekar, Ben Katchor--it's probably easier to list those who DON'T write about or draw on events in their life for their stories.
And it's notable that Alison Bechdel, the best American female comics writer (and one of the best regardless of gender) wrote a comic, Dykes to watch out for for many years before publishing anything directly autobiographical. Diane DiMassa, the creator of Hothead Paisan is similar in that regard--while the topics are obviously some that the creator deals with in her own life, it's nowhere close to being about her own life, as in, say, Robert Crumb's case.
To go back to Satrapi and Persepolis, this is interesting: she was encouraged to write comics (she was already an illustrator) by one David B. who "From 1996 to 2003, he created the acclaimed six-volume autobiographical epic l'Ascension du Haut Mal (published in English as Epileptic, the first of his long works to be translated into English), which is considered nowadays to be among the masterpieces of recent Franco-Belgian comics, as its multiple nominations at the Angoulême International Comics Festival shows..."
The impulse (or at least encouragement) to draw an autobiographical story came to her from someone (a guy as a matter of fact) already engaged in writing a similar series. It looks like you've chosen a particularly unfortunate example for your thesis that women "tend" to write autobiography...
The best superheroes are similar--those who are called to greatness, a la Peter Parker, but who at heart, are the everyman.
This is a whole 'nother topic, and it seems we hold diametrically opposed views on this. Tintin was never more or less than human; while extremely capable, he was often (usually, I'd say) simply lucky. There is nothing of the American superhero in him, and I'm not sure how much of an "everyman" there can be in any of that weird pantheon of mutants and flying people.
ETA:
link to article about David B.
But surely Satrapi's work itself belongs to the European tradition?
She said, " but in Tintin you don't have any female persons, so I couldn't identify with any of it."
I find this incredibly odd. Like practically all the Euros I know and not a few Arabs (and I'm betting the pre-revolution Iran was even more "europeanised" than Syria in this regard), I grew up on Tintin and Asterix, identifying with the main heroes to the hilt. I'm currently buying (several books at a time) both series for a trio of American girls aged 6 to 11 and they are loving them!
IME, there's more of a gender gap later on, in adolescence, and it's true that in high school there were more boys than girls into comics as much as I was. But I'm not sure this was due to a lack of female heroines...
I did find that there is a trend among female cartoonists to do autobiographical work.
But does this set them apart from the males, especially (but far from exclusively) within the genre of the graphic novel? As far as I can see, it's a general, not gender-specific trend at all.
Male autobiographers in comics (those better known): Robert Crumb, Seth, Ware, Clowes, Spiegelman, Joe Sacco, Harvey Pekar, Ben Katchor--it's probably easier to list those who DON'T write about or draw on events in their life for their stories.
And it's notable that Alison Bechdel, the best American female comics writer (and one of the best regardless of gender) wrote a comic, Dykes to watch out for for many years before publishing anything directly autobiographical. Diane DiMassa, the creator of Hothead Paisan is similar in that regard--while the topics are obviously some that the creator deals with in her own life, it's nowhere close to being about her own life, as in, say, Robert Crumb's case.
To go back to Satrapi and Persepolis, this is interesting: she was encouraged to write comics (she was already an illustrator) by one David B. who "From 1996 to 2003, he created the acclaimed six-volume autobiographical epic l'Ascension du Haut Mal (published in English as Epileptic, the first of his long works to be translated into English), which is considered nowadays to be among the masterpieces of recent Franco-Belgian comics, as its multiple nominations at the Angoulême International Comics Festival shows..."
The impulse (or at least encouragement) to draw an autobiographical story came to her from someone (a guy as a matter of fact) already engaged in writing a similar series. It looks like you've chosen a particularly unfortunate example for your thesis that women "tend" to write autobiography...
The best superheroes are similar--those who are called to greatness, a la Peter Parker, but who at heart, are the everyman.
This is a whole 'nother topic, and it seems we hold diametrically opposed views on this. Tintin was never more or less than human; while extremely capable, he was often (usually, I'd say) simply lucky. There is nothing of the American superhero in him, and I'm not sure how much of an "everyman" there can be in any of that weird pantheon of mutants and flying people.
ETA:
link to article about David B.
29reptiliancandy
Y'see...what you don't seem to understand is that I know my thesis sucked and was probably completely wrong. Also, I talked about Persepolis as an autobiography, not necessarily as a reaction to escapist comics. I go further to offer a POSSIBLE explanation of it, not necessarily the right answer. I'm not speaking of right and wrong, just a bunch of maybes. I know I'm not right. I'm just formulating theories, ones I can't fully test, but rather explore. Of course there's exceptions, because I'm not even talking about rules (and even if there were rules, there would be exceptions). I'm a lit nerd, this is what we do. Lit analysis doesn't always deal strictly with the author's intentions, but rather what else is there. Yes, the author's intentions play a part, but there's sometimes so much there (that snuck in whether consciously or subconsciously) that it's fascinating to explore (imho).
That being said, Satrapi saying she couldn't relate to Tintin is a direct quote. She doesn't elaborate on it too much, but I think that growing up in Iran definitely seperated her (culturally) from Tintin. The fact that there weren't female characters may have only further distanced her from it.
And yes, of course I know there are men who write autobiographies, I never tried to say that it was a gender-specific genre, only that amongst female cartoonists there seem to be a higher volume of autobiography. I didn't make up this stereotype--I read it. My thesis was very piecemeal, and not entirely connected. It was mostly a literary analysis (not strictly of course, since comics are not just a literary genre...there was talk of the art too) of Persepolis and Persepolis 2 with some other connections thrown in. Some came directly from research, others from my own thoughts based on my research. As I said, I'm still getting into some of this stuff and I do not know everything.
And you misunderstood my Peter Parker/Tintin connection. I meant that both started as your average joe, but were put into extraordinary circumstances (Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider and developed super powers, but I think Tintin experienced far more adventure than your average person). The characters are ones that the average male (and many females, I'm not saying that women can't relate at all) can relate to, because they're average people at the beginning. Many epic stories (but not all, I'm not saying all) involve characters with nothing extraordinary about them doing extraordinary things. Think of Frodo in Lord of the Rings (or Bilbo in The Hobbit), Harry Potter, or in comics a character like Bone. They start out average, but are far from it by the end of their respective stories.
That being said, Satrapi saying she couldn't relate to Tintin is a direct quote. She doesn't elaborate on it too much, but I think that growing up in Iran definitely seperated her (culturally) from Tintin. The fact that there weren't female characters may have only further distanced her from it.
And yes, of course I know there are men who write autobiographies, I never tried to say that it was a gender-specific genre, only that amongst female cartoonists there seem to be a higher volume of autobiography. I didn't make up this stereotype--I read it. My thesis was very piecemeal, and not entirely connected. It was mostly a literary analysis (not strictly of course, since comics are not just a literary genre...there was talk of the art too) of Persepolis and Persepolis 2 with some other connections thrown in. Some came directly from research, others from my own thoughts based on my research. As I said, I'm still getting into some of this stuff and I do not know everything.
And you misunderstood my Peter Parker/Tintin connection. I meant that both started as your average joe, but were put into extraordinary circumstances (Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider and developed super powers, but I think Tintin experienced far more adventure than your average person). The characters are ones that the average male (and many females, I'm not saying that women can't relate at all) can relate to, because they're average people at the beginning. Many epic stories (but not all, I'm not saying all) involve characters with nothing extraordinary about them doing extraordinary things. Think of Frodo in Lord of the Rings (or Bilbo in The Hobbit), Harry Potter, or in comics a character like Bone. They start out average, but are far from it by the end of their respective stories.
30LolaWalser
Well, you do confuse me, but I'm not attacking you. :) Merely discussing...
That being said, Satrapi saying she couldn't relate to Tintin is a direct quote. She doesn't elaborate on it too much, but I think that growing up in Iran definitely seperated her (culturally) from Tintin.
I commented on that taking it as her quote, I'm just surprised to hear that. Iran, and especially sophisticated, urban Teheran, wasn't culturally removed from Europe all that much. And she was an upper-class kid, travelling and speaking French from an early age. I'd understand she couldn't identify with a boy sooner than that she didn't get the culture.
my Peter Parker/Tintin connection. I meant that both started as your average joe
I disagree with this. Tintin was introduced as himself from his first adventure, he was never average. However, his extraordinariness is completely different from that of Spiderman. Tintin: intelligent, talented, world-famous journalist, seemingly ageless (but frequently called "a youth" or "youthful"), going from one caper to the next, involving various perfectly human if sometimes diabolical criminals.
Spiderman: a being with superpowers.
Think of Frodo in Lord of the Rings (or Bilbo in The Hobbit), Harry Potter, or in comics a character like Bone.
I don't know Bone, but the other examples have nothing in common with Tintin either, hobbits are imaginary non-human beings living in a magical world, Harry Potter has (imaginary, magical) superpowers and lives in a magical world too.
Tintin has amazing adventures, not amazing powers, and he's firmly grounded in terrestrial logic and conditions (even when he rockets off to the Moon...)
never tried to say that it was a gender-specific genre, only that amongst female cartoonists there seem to be a higher volume of autobiography.
Well, I'm not convinced. For one thing, there's still a large disparity in the numbers of female and male comics writers, making direct comparisons meaningless, even if we talk in percentages. And then, making this statement based on ONE example--Satrapi--while there are dozens of male comics writers writing autobios, well, that just seems odd.
That being said, Satrapi saying she couldn't relate to Tintin is a direct quote. She doesn't elaborate on it too much, but I think that growing up in Iran definitely seperated her (culturally) from Tintin.
I commented on that taking it as her quote, I'm just surprised to hear that. Iran, and especially sophisticated, urban Teheran, wasn't culturally removed from Europe all that much. And she was an upper-class kid, travelling and speaking French from an early age. I'd understand she couldn't identify with a boy sooner than that she didn't get the culture.
my Peter Parker/Tintin connection. I meant that both started as your average joe
I disagree with this. Tintin was introduced as himself from his first adventure, he was never average. However, his extraordinariness is completely different from that of Spiderman. Tintin: intelligent, talented, world-famous journalist, seemingly ageless (but frequently called "a youth" or "youthful"), going from one caper to the next, involving various perfectly human if sometimes diabolical criminals.
Spiderman: a being with superpowers.
Think of Frodo in Lord of the Rings (or Bilbo in The Hobbit), Harry Potter, or in comics a character like Bone.
I don't know Bone, but the other examples have nothing in common with Tintin either, hobbits are imaginary non-human beings living in a magical world, Harry Potter has (imaginary, magical) superpowers and lives in a magical world too.
Tintin has amazing adventures, not amazing powers, and he's firmly grounded in terrestrial logic and conditions (even when he rockets off to the Moon...)
never tried to say that it was a gender-specific genre, only that amongst female cartoonists there seem to be a higher volume of autobiography.
Well, I'm not convinced. For one thing, there's still a large disparity in the numbers of female and male comics writers, making direct comparisons meaningless, even if we talk in percentages. And then, making this statement based on ONE example--Satrapi--while there are dozens of male comics writers writing autobios, well, that just seems odd.
31YorickBrown
27> the male escapist fantasy category
I'm curious about your opinion of The Sandman: a game of you by Neil Gaiman. As I read it, that's his acknowledgement of the fact that comics are traditionally male escapist fantasies, and his attempt (male though he is) to incorporate female escapist fantasy into the Sandman epic. If I remember correctly, there's even a discussion of the differences between boys' and girls' daydreams, although I don't recall the details. Something like, boys dream that they become extraordinary (like Spider-Man), while girls dream that they always were extraordinary but didn't know it (like a princess raised among peasants).
In my limited, highly subjective, male perspective (I'm thinking of the tastes of women and girls I know), it seems to me that Sandman has more appeal to female readers than pretty much any other American comic. Any thoughts?
I'm curious about your opinion of The Sandman: a game of you by Neil Gaiman. As I read it, that's his acknowledgement of the fact that comics are traditionally male escapist fantasies, and his attempt (male though he is) to incorporate female escapist fantasy into the Sandman epic. If I remember correctly, there's even a discussion of the differences between boys' and girls' daydreams, although I don't recall the details. Something like, boys dream that they become extraordinary (like Spider-Man), while girls dream that they always were extraordinary but didn't know it (like a princess raised among peasants).
In my limited, highly subjective, male perspective (I'm thinking of the tastes of women and girls I know), it seems to me that Sandman has more appeal to female readers than pretty much any other American comic. Any thoughts?
32reptiliancandy
I'm not convinced about females and autobiographies either....I wasn't basing it on Satrapi, either. I was basing it on a book on comics that I read that said something to the effect of "the stereotype of women cartoonists writing autobiographies". It quoted several examples (I'd really have to look into it though, I don't have a copy of the book). That's not a direct quote btw, it was just something like that. So, I guess I'm basing that statement on that book. I don't know for certain. It was just an interesting observation that I thought I'd explore the implications of.
I understand what you're saying about Tintin, and to be perfectly honest I'm really not that familiar with the comics. I think you're still misunderstanding the connection I was trying to make though. But no worries. I guess Tintin started out great. The others represent the everyman more so, I think. I know I'm getting OT, but Harry Potter is someone kids can relate to. Especially if they start the series early, when they're the same age as Harry. I think it's more of an American thing. Americans are always in love with the underdog, and I think that's what I'm getting at more than anything. Tintin might not qualify, I don't know. But Frodo is sort of an underdog (being a lowly hobbit), Bone definitely is (you should read it, btw, it's fantastic...it's a Lord of the Rings-scale epic comic). Harry Potter's not an underdog per se, but comes from very humble beginnings and struggles with his fame. I'm looking more at the level of relate-ability factor in my comparison than in the other circumstances (whether the character are realistic or more fantastical). And I think Tintin may have that, though like I said, I don't know.
I understand what you're saying about Tintin, and to be perfectly honest I'm really not that familiar with the comics. I think you're still misunderstanding the connection I was trying to make though. But no worries. I guess Tintin started out great. The others represent the everyman more so, I think. I know I'm getting OT, but Harry Potter is someone kids can relate to. Especially if they start the series early, when they're the same age as Harry. I think it's more of an American thing. Americans are always in love with the underdog, and I think that's what I'm getting at more than anything. Tintin might not qualify, I don't know. But Frodo is sort of an underdog (being a lowly hobbit), Bone definitely is (you should read it, btw, it's fantastic...it's a Lord of the Rings-scale epic comic). Harry Potter's not an underdog per se, but comes from very humble beginnings and struggles with his fame. I'm looking more at the level of relate-ability factor in my comparison than in the other circumstances (whether the character are realistic or more fantastical). And I think Tintin may have that, though like I said, I don't know.
33reptiliancandy
31--Ack! I'm not qualified to answer, I haven't read Sandman yet. I know, it's terrible. I hear nothing but good things. At least your question will give me an good frame of mind for when I do read it though.
35Anke
"Can you talk about European comics like Persepolis being a reaction to superheroes? As LolaWalser discussed above, that's a really different cultural context, and provides writers more different options than just Superman or Family Circus."
I might be misunderstanding, but this seems to be based on the assumption that "superhero" is the default genre for comics. As far as I can tell this is pretty much an American thing only.
Around here, comics of other genres have been strong for a long time.
Hey, Tintin predates the publication of Superman by a decade or so. ;)
I might be misunderstanding, but this seems to be based on the assumption that "superhero" is the default genre for comics. As far as I can tell this is pretty much an American thing only.
Around here, comics of other genres have been strong for a long time.
Hey, Tintin predates the publication of Superman by a decade or so. ;)
36YorickBrown
Anke, that was my point exactly. I was responding to #22:
Incidentally, is Asterix a superhero?
the stereotype that female cartoonists write autobiographies ... stems from their lack of real identity in the male escapist-fantasy superhero comics ... My focus was Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis and Persepolis 2...
Incidentally, is Asterix a superhero?
37LolaWalser
Incidentally, is Asterix a superhero?
Naah, he's just "super". :)
It's a good question, and the answer hinges on how you define superhero. I think the US type (THE type, as it is) necessitates most or all of the following: secret identity, costume, special power.
Now Asterix... no secret identity, no costume, no "mission" as such (until the adventure starts). The magic potion gives him great (superhuman) strength and he does undergo a transformation of sorts upon drinking it, but... so does anybody else. Obelix had had so much he's always in the "superhero" mode. And remember "Asterix in Britain", at the end, when Getafix (Panoramix) runs out of the magic potion and tosses dry leaves into the boiling water--the mere belief that they HAD drunk the real thing makes Britons color> invincible.
ETA: I edited to white-font a possible spoiler--nothing major, but it's a cute gag.
Naah, he's just "super". :)
It's a good question, and the answer hinges on how you define superhero. I think the US type (THE type, as it is) necessitates most or all of the following: secret identity, costume, special power.
Now Asterix... no secret identity, no costume, no "mission" as such (until the adventure starts). The magic potion gives him great (superhuman) strength and he does undergo a transformation of sorts upon drinking it, but... so does anybody else. Obelix had had so much he's always in the "superhero" mode. And remember "Asterix in Britain", at the end, when Getafix (Panoramix) runs out of the magic potion and tosses dry leaves into the boiling water--the mere belief that they HAD drunk the real thing makes Britons color> invincible.
ETA: I edited to white-font a possible spoiler--nothing major, but it's a cute gag.
38LolaWalser
It occurs to me comics like Asterix and Tintin are classic adventure, and this genre seems to be more popular in Europe than the US. Come to think of it, most of the comics I listed as being part of Euro experience are adventure (including the American classics), from Modesty Blaise to Corto Maltese. Westerns (Blueberry, Jeremiah, Tex Willer, Lucky Luke) fit the bill too--and they are still wildly popular in Europe, whereas in the US... not so much.
Another one: Bernard Prince
The comic is French, but this character is probably American (his sidekicks are an English sailor and a Javanese boy).
Another one: Bernard Prince
The comic is French, but this character is probably American (his sidekicks are an English sailor and a Javanese boy).
39YorickBrown
more popular in Europe than the US
You know, I can't think of a single mainstream American comic that I would describe as "classic adventure." Even "road stories" like Y: The Last Man and "police procedurals" like Fell by Warren Ellis have something supernatural about them. The Phantom and Prince Valiant are confined mostly to Sunday newspaper comic strips (and even there, the trend is overwhelmingly "humor").
Maybe Cerebus? But Dave Sim is anything but mainstream.
I believe this is why the comic-within-the-comic of Watchmen is about pirates. It would take a world of real, live superheroes to get American comics readers to look at something else.
You know, I can't think of a single mainstream American comic that I would describe as "classic adventure." Even "road stories" like Y: The Last Man and "police procedurals" like Fell by Warren Ellis have something supernatural about them. The Phantom and Prince Valiant are confined mostly to Sunday newspaper comic strips (and even there, the trend is overwhelmingly "humor").
Maybe Cerebus? But Dave Sim is anything but mainstream.
I believe this is why the comic-within-the-comic of Watchmen is about pirates. It would take a world of real, live superheroes to get American comics readers to look at something else.
40LolaWalser
You brought up "Sandman", he's definitely different. But then Gaiman is British...
I think the power of the US market is both admirable and deplorable: at one point more than 100 million Americans bought comics, and since the superhero genre was so popular, the industry "enforced" it. Schweizer mentions that someone started cataloguing the superheroes that appeared in 1950-1990 and gave up when he got to over 8000.
I also wonder how things would have developed if more different formats of comics had been available...
I think the power of the US market is both admirable and deplorable: at one point more than 100 million Americans bought comics, and since the superhero genre was so popular, the industry "enforced" it. Schweizer mentions that someone started cataloguing the superheroes that appeared in 1950-1990 and gave up when he got to over 8000.
I also wonder how things would have developed if more different formats of comics had been available...
41Jakeofalltrades
I seemed to identify with Superman as a kid, as I am somewhat an outsider because of my Asperger Syndrome which makes my understanding of other people different in aspects. I could identify with Superman because I too felt like I was from another world, and recognised the fact that Superman, although he appears invulnerable, had to hide his true self in early years of his career so that people would trust him. When it comes to identifying with comics characters, the circumstances of one's life affects which characters in books, comics, movies and plays one relates to. I also figured out over the years that superheroes with archnemesises tend to accumulate negative views towards their enemies that stops them from resolving their conflicts (e.g. Batman and The Joker), but some superheroes try to work with people, even ones they don't like, to solve problems bigger than their petty squabbles ever were. Superman is a big problems solver superhero that never wishes to kill, whereas other superheroes like Batman (sorry Marvel fans, I'm not the most familiar with Marvel superheroes, even though I acknowledge their significance in the genre. Like Spider Man for example, I find him somewhat relatable since he's a nerd like me) tend to use unconventional methods to get information out of people. Keep in mind though, you'd probably be brutal towards people if you witnessed the death of your parents at the hands of a thug as well.
In closing, there are plenty of comics that girls can relate to, just not in the way they expect. This is possibly why young women enjoy reading Ernest Hemingway stories, yes, they would probably enjoy the stereotyped Jane Austen for the good writing, however it is wrong to say that women are unable to relate to all male written books or all male characters. Likewise, although there is the big spectre of the fear of being labelled gay (in the words of Jerry Seinfeld, Not that there's anything wrong with that), there are female books that men can enjoy as well as female characters that men can relate to.
In closing, there are plenty of comics that girls can relate to, just not in the way they expect. This is possibly why young women enjoy reading Ernest Hemingway stories, yes, they would probably enjoy the stereotyped Jane Austen for the good writing, however it is wrong to say that women are unable to relate to all male written books or all male characters. Likewise, although there is the big spectre of the fear of being labelled gay (in the words of Jerry Seinfeld, Not that there's anything wrong with that), there are female books that men can enjoy as well as female characters that men can relate to.
42belleyang
Hi TeenAuthor--My neighbor, a little boy of 10, also has Asperger Syndrome. I can see why you identify with Superman. Hey, most people I like are different. I'm from alpha centuri myself. I haven't had a chance to check out your blog, but will soon.
Have you read It's a Bird? Or Epileptic? These are amazing works. I identified with the characters. Read Epileptic first and let me know what you think. This is my favorite of the graphic novels.
Have you read It's a Bird? Or Epileptic? These are amazing works. I identified with the characters. Read Epileptic first and let me know what you think. This is my favorite of the graphic novels.
43Jakeofalltrades
I've heard good things about It's A Bird, but my local Kinokuniya isn't restocking many books at the moment since it is struggling to fit all its stock of the comics section.
I call this the "Great Sandman Famine" of May 2007, since they haven't restocked Sandman in a while, whereas everything else is restocked regularly. This is why I have more Superman and Alan Moore TPBs than I do Neil Gaiman's.
However I have discovered a shop that has everything that Kinokuniya doesn't have at the moment that I consider worthy of my collection, called Galaxy Bookshop.
I call this the "Great Sandman Famine" of May 2007, since they haven't restocked Sandman in a while, whereas everything else is restocked regularly. This is why I have more Superman and Alan Moore TPBs than I do Neil Gaiman's.
However I have discovered a shop that has everything that Kinokuniya doesn't have at the moment that I consider worthy of my collection, called Galaxy Bookshop.
44gregtmills
TeenAuthor -- I checked out your blog (nice!) and I saw that you're Australian (or living in Australia at any rate).
Does Australia have a native comic/narrative art tradition?
Does Australia have a native comic/narrative art tradition?
45Jakeofalltrades
Australia never really had a strong comics tradition in the past because of the suppression of comics here in the 30s, hence Australia had no "Golden Age" of comics.
However, in recent times, Australia is responsible for reviving the following for the comics character The Phantom, an obscure character you may have heard of, essentially he has no superpowers but uses a gun, he has jungle training...
But The Phantom owes his life to Down Under, because he now has reached 1500 issues.
Consuming comics is a bigger trend in Australia, as many people buy Sandman TPBs and Alan Moore stuff, Marvel Comics have a very large following in Australia which is why the Spider-Man movies did so well down here.
I've heard of a growing number of Asian people in Australia making their own Manga comics, so in a few years that might be very popular, as Manga seems to be growing in interest in the Asia-Pacific Region. And with the Osamu Tezuka exhibition coming to Australia recently (It's now in San Francisco) who can blame people for being interested?
However, in recent times, Australia is responsible for reviving the following for the comics character The Phantom, an obscure character you may have heard of, essentially he has no superpowers but uses a gun, he has jungle training...
But The Phantom owes his life to Down Under, because he now has reached 1500 issues.
Consuming comics is a bigger trend in Australia, as many people buy Sandman TPBs and Alan Moore stuff, Marvel Comics have a very large following in Australia which is why the Spider-Man movies did so well down here.
I've heard of a growing number of Asian people in Australia making their own Manga comics, so in a few years that might be very popular, as Manga seems to be growing in interest in the Asia-Pacific Region. And with the Osamu Tezuka exhibition coming to Australia recently (It's now in San Francisco) who can blame people for being interested?
