Ranting/complaining about mooches, Chapter 14!

New month, new ranting!

*bump*

I"m tired, slightly cranky, and need another three hours of sleep. Oh wait! This is about mooches?

I few weeks ago - I had a request from a school/charity. I went through their wishlist, pulled out all of my books I was intending to give away on BookMooch or on the fence about giving away, and sent them in a big box. The original book was received, but the person running the account didn't even bother writing anything for feedback, not even a thank you!

I know - its probably something like she's too busy, or I sent books she already has, or has so many packages coming in, but still, I'd feel better if she would have added something along the lines of "thanks for the extra books".

that is soo tacky, especially for a "charity/school"

#3 - I would feel the same way. When you go the extra mile for people and they don't seem grateful, it's disheartening.

I think your act of kindness was very commendable!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michelle

Okay, PLEASE don't think badly of me for this, but I need to be totally selfish for a minute.

I've spent the last two months being my mother's caregiver, she's been very sick, and sometimes the stress gets to me and I just feel like "I want to put MYSELF first for once dangit!".

So here I am, ranting, in the one place where I hopefully won't get blasted for it.

Wednesday night I had to make my mom go to the hospital, after a bad fall where she hit her head. Long story short, she's okay, but she's still in the hospital and might be for a few more days, and if I hadn't made her go she probably wouldn't have been okay. I've been worried sick about her every waking moment for the past few days, so I feel justified taking a few moments for a "ME!" rant.

I didn't go to work at ALL last week; first because of accompanying my mom to doctor's appts, and then the hospital stuff. .... This means that my paycheck on the 5th will be the smallest it's ever been. .... Which means I may not be able to ship the pending mooches that I delayed until the 5th. .... Which makes me frustrated and upset because BM is ONE thing in my life that still makes me happy right now! ... And it also makes me feel guilty as hell because something like this shouldn't even be on my radar when my mom is in the hospital.

*sigh* Sorry for such a serious rant, I just really needed to get it out, and you guys are the only ones likely to understand.

Heather, there is nothing wrong or selfish about feeling stressed and needing a little something for yourself. If you were selfish you wouldn't be caring for your mother the way you are. And if you take a few minutes where you can do to something for yourself you will actually be in a better position to support her. In fact, as I see it the BM stress isn't even because you are just focusing on yourself, but you are focusing on the people to whom you are shipping your books.

I hope everything works out for you. I would just email your moochers and explain your situation. I think the vast majority of people are more than understanding in a situation like this and only want the communication to know you haven't forgotten them.

*hugs*

I'm really sorry about your mom and your paycheck. I hope she's feeling better soon.
I think if you just contact your waiting moochers and say, "I've had to delay another week because of a medical situation," most people would be okay. If not, they can cancel and have their point back.
Sometimes things happen all at once.

6:

First off let me send you a big virtual hug. I'm a caregiver to both parents myself and a single mom.

You NEED to take time for yourself above everything else - even BM when needed. And you need to rant when you need to as well.

Just delay the books again with a note that it's due to medical and financial - it will be okay.

*HUGS everyone lots* I have tears in my eyes right now, and for once they aren't bad tears. Thank you for all your love and support and kind words.

Heather, I totally understand. My mum took care of my dad for many years with Parkinson's Disease. She could rarely leave the house and when she did she worried about him the whole time. She was even unable to go to her own father's (my grandfather's) funeral. People who do this like yourself are the least selfish people I know. Do something nice for yourself while the nurses are taking care of her. Even if it's a nice long warm bubble bath or go out to a movie and to dinner with a friend (even if it is just fast food that you can afford). Don't worry about anything people understand and you will feel much better when she does come home.

Ah, Heather19, your heart is in the right place. You take care of your mom and worry about your moochers! Not everybody would be so responsible.

Take a few deep breaths. Things will get better. Your moochers will understand and your mom will get better too. You absolutely did the right thing insisting she go to the hospital. I'm sure it was hard.

Lots of hugs and good thoughts headed your way!

#6: Heather, another *hug* from me. I know that your moochers would be understanding once you let them know about the potential delay. As for "ranting", you come to the right place as witnessed by the kind words of compassion from your LT/BM friends here. Good decision.

Hugs Heather.

I was able to spend the night at a family-friend's house last night. She has four wolf-hybrids, and they always make me so happy. It was definitely a great stress-reliever.

*hugs everyone* Thank you all! And thanks to those who smooched me! :)

>15 Heather19: I'm glad you're feeling better, Heather! :)

Hopefully everybody is having a good day! Mine has been good enough that I was fairly mellow about the clipped nails falling out of a hardcover I mooched a few months ago. (". . . what just fell on my leg? Oh. Huh.") Note to self: double-check books after they arrive.

>16 chelonianmobile: Ewwwww!!!!!!

>17 Bcteagirl: It was like three hundred pages in, too. At least I wasn't eating or anything. *whistles some Monty Python*

Has anyone else seen a lot of fraud and unpleasantness lately on BM? Lately I've just been fed up and this morning I took down my entire inventory. I hate that I feel this way because I've been a BMer forever.

Anyways, I'm asking because my emotional balance is upset right now. This past week I was diagnosed with lupus and I've had to start cutting down on my OCD meds because of it. I'm a little nuts right now so hopefully this is all in my head.

19: I'm sorry you are going through a rough time, but looking at your BM history it looks like you've only had one bad mooch experience in quite awhile. If you like BM so much, I certainly don't think one bad experience is reason to quit.

Heather... my thoughts & prayers go out to you & your mom.

Recently, I had to delay some books and in Nov/Dec, I had to go out of town to deal with a family emergency, so I couldn't post. Both time, I clearly stated in my status that I couldn't post until a certain date, but I did have to change the date. I kept in touch with my moochers & all was well... no bad ratings, nothing... I will say that I did smooch points back in a couple of cases... some were smooched back to me, too... everyone was understanding & great....

Just as understanding as everyone will be with your situation....

... If not, pshhht to them!!

imaginelove, I think the amount of bad behavior remains steady on BookMooch (a very small proportion), but sometimes it comes in waves, so that one gets all the year's bad mooches in a few weeks' time. I've also noticed that when I'm going through something myself, the troublesome mooches hit harder. Try ranting unrestrainedly here and see if that helps.

Heather, aren't wolf hybrids great? My best friend growing up was Apache the Canadian timber wolf-Belgian shepherd (not sure which one) hybrid (he was my dad's dog but I spent most weekends and summers with him).

23: Last night was the first time I got to meet her two newest additions. They are seven months old and bigger then the other dogs! I think they have more wolf in them then the others do, though. Their markings are definite wolf. But omg, I sat on the steps in the backyard last night with tears *of happiness*, watching those two.

#19 imaginelove- I'm so sorry you're going through a rough time. BM continues to be a bright spot in my life; it's hard when something you love is disappointing you. Hope you feel better soon and that BM goes back to being a positive thing in your life.

23 and 24> I almost had a wolf hybrid once! The neighbours tied theirs outside where it howled all night. I was a kid at that point and fell absolutely in love with it, petting it all the time. The neighbours offered me him/her, but my mom wouldn't let me. -sigh- They are absolutely gorgeous, though.

Also, -hugs- Heather (and imaginelove), I hope things improve for you both soon.

Wolf hybrids are great - Our first was a timber wolf cross, and our second was a wolf / husky cross.

Both GREAT dogs - I miss them terribly. Now all we have is PITA {Pain in the Arse} the Chihuahua.

Thanks everyone. I'll probably wait a while and see how I feel. I'll definitely come back to rant if the need hits me. ;)

20: I wish it were just the 1 bad thing - that's the only one that showed up on the BM feedback. People can be such twits at times!

Heather, My white Alaskan Husky is a white shepherd/ white wolf mix and he is really different from my other dogs.

His emotions are sometimes almost human-like. Sometimes he gets mad at me for going to work and instead of greeting me at the door like my labs he will hide out and pout.

He eats on his own terms and has a can of sardines over his Beneful when he does eat. (usually everyday to every other day) If I try to slip something other than sardines in he looks at me as if to say this isn't what I eat. When he wants to eat he comes to me and runs his tongue around his mouth and if I don't get it he stands there and howls.

See my profile for his picture. He is 10 years old now and I love him.

All of your dogs are gorgeous! You should post more pictures. :D

28 – imaginelove, feel free to post about the problems here. That's exactly what this thread was designed for, and one of us may even be able to help. If nothing else, I think we'd all attest to the therapeutic benefits of a good, safe rant!
Hang in there.

Thanks Imaginelove! I will try to post some more. I hope they cheered you up a bit. I know lupus isn't an easy diagnosis. If you are in the US maybe you should try PBS. Some people have more luck with BM, some with PBS. You might want to give it a try. You can still keep all your friends here on LT. I look at it as neutral territory. Everyone is very nice and supportive.

I'm getting really tired of people who send books with just a thin piece of paper on them. I got three books in the mail today, and all three were just wrapped in paper, no plastic wrap and very little tape. I am so surprised that none of them are damaged. I guess I am a little bit lucky too, today is the first day in a week that it hasn't been raining/snowing. One packaged was ripped and the book would have been seriously damaged if it had rained. I gave +1's to everyone but added a note mentioning that plastic would be a good idea.

They arrived in good condition, so I'm happy about that, but still.

33:

Definitely this. I got one today that was wrapped in thin holiday wrapping paper and taped with scotch tape!

I can't believe it wasn't torn up or worse.

I always get so angry when I request a book on my wishlist, wait over a month for the user to accept the transaction or mark the book as sent, send the user reminders, eventually cancel the transaction, put the user on vacation and then find that within *days* the user is back off of vacation and the book is marked as available! Then it shows up on my wishlist but I can't mooch it because I know the user is awful and unreliable.

Argh! Drives me so crazy!

35> Ditto!!! I had that happen to two books recently. Then to make matters worse someone else mooched them, and the user SENT THEM TO THEM!!

That is so frustrating when it happens, especially if someone is angeling the book for you. However recently one moocher did come back after it was cancelled; the book was still wanted, and actually sent the book... so you never know! As always good communication can go a long way.

35: That very thing happened to me recently... I don't want to mooch from this person again, but that book is sitting on my wishlist TAUNTING me. And I feel sorry for the people who *are* mooching from her, because based on her history and my past experience with her, she most likely won't be sending them. I did email abuse, but haven't heard back.

31: You're right and I think I have my wits about me for a little while this morning. (3 kids = very few wits.)

All of my rants have to do with moochers right now. I'm sure once I figure out what I do want, I'll grr about something else.

Mainly, it's the misconception that we're doing business on BM. We're not on eBay, we're not making money - we're trading. In trades, both people need to agree and be happy with the terms. It's a clash of motivations, I guess.

I send books to other countries mainly because they can't get those books in their own country. I live in the Bible belt and the amount of Christian self-help and study guides I come across is staggering. In other areas, these things aren't as plentiful. In some areas, certain books are censored or don't meet the privacy laws of the area. For instance, certain recent history books can't be bought in the UK because some of the people in the books and their families are still alive and haven't signed waivers. However, it's perfectly legal to receive the book as a gift. It just can't be bought or sold inside their borders.

However, I really don't want to send a 100 page MMP to a flourishing area where they can get basically anything. For what it costs me to ship, I'd rather they downloaded an illegal ebook off of the pirate bay. Heck, even a legal download off of Amazon would be cheaper.

Lately though, it seems like people with little to no history on the site will load 20 books and throw a point at me like it's money and they can just snatch a book off my inventory. There was a person who did that a few months back who ended up with her account closed right after I sent the book. BM used to be fun and pleasant to trade on and people were really excited to get books in the mail. We'd send postcards from different art exhibits in the package. Once I got a really cute mini-book of recipes with a book. I got pleasure in finding books I'd never thought I'd see being up for trade and the rush of getting to it first. It was a game and a community of real people - not of "inventories" and judgments and feedback. It was fun and now it seems like so many people are taking it as SRS BSNS.

Lately though, it seems like people with little to no history on the site will load 20 books and throw a point at me like it's money and they can just snatch a book off my inventory.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you... but points *do* represent money because it isn't free to send books! And I'm not sure what is wrong with someone new to the site "snatching" a book from your inventory — that's what the inventory is for, right? So other people can request the books in it?

Why is there a prejudice against people with "little to no history on the site"? Weren't you a newbie once, with little to no history on BM? What if people gave you the cold shoulder because you weren't in the elite group of experienced moochers?

Yeah, there are people who join who try to scam the site. But I'm not understanding the idea that there has to be some kind of pre-existing relationship for someone to mooch from you. I love the community here too, but the site is primarily about getting and giving books. The community is a byproduct of that, not the ultimate goal.

BM doesn't allow its members to pick and choose where they will send books (besides the international/domestic only settings, of course). When you list a book, you're putting it up for anyone to "snatch" (i.e. mooch).

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you! But frustration will inevitably follow unrealistic expectations, and I'm just trying to alleviate those.

>39 imaginelove:: *raises hand* Er, I'm one of those people who consider BookMooch to be serious business. I love the site, and I love having books fly in to me from all over the world, and I love sending my books out to whatever countries I can afford to ship to, but I would be so very sad if I requested your 100-page mmpb and had my request rejected because you considered my area to be too flourishing to make your shipping worthwhile.

It is my opinion that BM is not a trading system. I think of it as a fixed-barter system where Sent Book = Fixed Number of Points. You are correct that members aren't using BM as a business and money is not changing hands, but members are still investing effort and expense to send out books in exchange for those points. Your suggestion to limit the locations where I may spend my lawfully-earned points is one I profoundly disagree with.

I will concede that since I've been a BMer for a long, long time that my grumpy, stodgy old "this isn't how it used to be" attitude is showing up. I was one of the first few to work for a dotcom as well, and after 2007 people started calling me a "troublemaker" because I remember the times when the internet was a culture and not just a corporation.

I see BM points more like Native American Trading Day in the 3rd grade. Kids bring in things they've made for feathers (which represent money) and can "buy" and "sell" with those feathers. It's not real and it's not a big deal and everyone goes home with some origami birds and a comic book a classmate made. It's fun.

The difference is attitude. If someone sends me a request that says "hey, I'm new here and you have an awesome inventory. Thanks for being a part of this!" I will send to them. I like trading with NICE people. It's the basic disregard that there is a human being behind this keyboard that irks me. Even at the grocery store, nice people make eye contact with the clerk and exchange pleasantries so why is it different online?

If you look at my profile, I have plenty of points - I'm not worried about that. I offer to give them to anyone who needs them. And I SHOULD have the right to turn down a mooch from a jerk or a troll. Or, like I've seen on other sites, people who mooch your entire inventory with a fake name and behind a proxy just to cancel all the mooches and leave negative feedback.

I guess I feel a lot like Britney Spears lately. Early on, people were nice and asked for interviews and treated her like a princess. Now it's like the paparazzi barks orders at her and basically tries to get her to do something outrageous out of anger. They see her as a commodity instead of a person.

My motivations for trading books is to join a community of book lovers. It's only logical that if it's not a community of PEOPLE who love books, then I won't maintain an inventory. I'm not elitist, I just expect people to treat me like a person.

It's the basic disregard that there is a human being behind this keyboard that irks me.

But I think that is happening on both sides. I always try to thank the person I'm mooching from. But what if I'm dashing out the door and only have time to put in a quick request on a highly wishlisted item? We can talk about how we feel disregarded when someone mooches without buttering us up with compliments about our inventory, but I think WE are displaying a basic disregard for the person behind the keyboard when we start making judgments about their motivations. To me, that is making BM into more "SRS BNS" than taking a more relaxed, no-sweat approach. It adds unnecessary drama.

Online interactions are different from the grocery store because there is no face-to-face contact. You can't compare the two and ask why people don't act the same in both contexts; they aren't really comparable situations. Not everyone feels that they need to compliment someone's inventory in order to request a book from that inventory. Isn't the request inherently a compliment in itself?

And I SHOULD have the right to turn down a mooch from a jerk or a troll.

According to the BM rules, you don't have the right to reject a mooch simply because you think someone is a jerk or you don't like that person. You have to turn this around — wouldn't you feel upset if someone rejected a mooch of yours because they thought you were a jerk or they didn't like what you were saying here on the LT BM board? How would that be fair?

Calling someone a jerk or a troll on the basis of ONE interaction is making a subjective judgment about the person on the other end. Everyone has bad days... both the person on the other end and ourselves. Is our judgment so infallible every day that we should place it above the rules?

The cases you mention of someone trying to actively sabotage your account are extremely rare. Given its infrequency, I don't see that as a valid reason to reject mooches.

Thanks for discussing this! It's one of the community perks :)

Imaginelove, I try to treat the books mooched from me as a serious responsibility, responding quickly to requests, making sure that my condition notes are accurate and sending things out when I say I will. That's my part in making it a friendly transaction, much more than anything else I can do. In the other direction, I respond to any emails I get and make sure to leave timely and accurate feedback, but I don't think there are any obligations other than that.

And, in the course of these transactions, I have had friendly conversations with many moochers. It's a happy by-product of the nature of BookMooch, but it's not required and I can appreciate that someone might not want to make the transaction more than it is.

It does help to remember that the value of a given book is often very different than the price printed on it. A book sent somewhere where bookstores are common, might still have great value to someone who can't get to the bookstore or the library. And a book sent somewhere "worthy", might yet end up on a shelf, unread. We don't get to know that.

You do have plenty of points, so maybe taking a break from sending out books will allow you to return later with a renewed joy in the process. Being in on BookMooch since the very beginning is a long time and maybe you're a bit burnt out. And you have a lot of other things on your plate right now. Time enough to send out books when life calms down and your To Be Read pile runs out.

A quiet suggestion: If you are uncomfortable with newbie requests & are unsure if they are legitimate, then put a delay on their request. Perhaps two weeks. Wait until another of their requests is marked received & then send your book. You can say a friend borrowed it without you knowing & they've promised to return it at the end of the month & ask the newbie if they still want it & would be willing to wait. You are being nice & you are being polite, but you are delaying the sending until you are more comfortable sending it. AND you are not accusing the newbie & offending them.

I'm not recommending this as a solution, but a band-aid until you find out that newbies are human, too.

You can't see my profile & history on BM, but the very small group of LTers who know me will tell you that I'm uber polite on BM. I've vented here on LT, but my communication on BM is "oh, gee, your book is not quite as you described... I think your new puppy may have thought it was his chew toy & training pad!! But you did a fantastic job wrapping it in tissue & cello-tape. The post office put it in a plastic bag to protect the book that almost fell out when the tissue got caught in the machinery & shredded. I'm really glad you securely taped my address to the cover of the book!!"

Yes, you can be polite & nice AND still let others know that there might be condition &/or shipping issues with a moocher.

Delay if you feel it necessary, but give the newbies a chance... keep your attitude upbeat & welcoming. You'll find it reciprocated more often than not. And you might find out that the newbie has some books from your wishlist that they haven't posted yet!! and they might want to offer them to you first!! It. Has. Happened!!! *happy dance*

My final suggestion: Even if you want to feel grumpy about this, & it is probably justified, make your profile a welcoming & positive one. Make it a profile that people WANT to mooch from.... I'm not saying you need hearts & flowers & cute graphics, but let it be known that you love books, you treat them well AND you have clear condition notes & well wrapped mailings. (you truly need a knife with mine).

ImagineLove (btw, I love your username) try to go beyond the golden rule by treating other moochers better than you want to be treated. If someone scams you, then they must really be in a bad place with their heads & their lives. You gave a good book away to someone who cheated. Perhaps one day that book will fall into a real booklover's library... maybe the "badmoocher's" daughter will get that book & will find a love of books... you never know how one gift will change someone's life in ways you never could imagine!!

edited to add: I do like your profile page!! It is welcoming!!

I've also been on BM for a long time now (since just after it started), and my experience is the opposite - I find that people are LESS likely to scam or be unpleasant than they were in the first year or so. Whether this is because we now have eagle-eyed admins and a solid community of BMers who are prepared to report possible abuse I don't know, but things are a lot easier than they used to be!

ETA: And I still get nice notes, bookmarks, postcards, etc in the books I mooch - I must be mooching from a whole different set of people to those who Imaginelove mooches from!

Y'all are right. I am just burned out and a giant grumpalufagous right now. The hard part of this illness right now is that it messes with my emotional balance. Some days are really bright, happy days and some are "even my 600 thread count sheets feel like sandpaper and the world sucks" kind of days. It's a good thing I have the internet people to adjust my attitude!

And I can't believe how long it's been since I updated my profile page! It said I'd been married for 7 years and it will be 11 years in a little over a month. My hair was so long in that picture... sheez.

I've been on Bookmooch for almost 2 years and the only really bad experience I had was with a woman (to use a nice word) in England. Everybody else has done exactly what I want - send books that I request. I don't need bookmarks, notes, cards, anything, just the books I want. And, I just send books too. So far nobody's complained. Feedback score = # books sent. I'm content.

Now there are several people here on LT who are also Bookmoochers, and we've done some pretty nice things for each other and I really like that, but generally it's just points-books-snag stuff for me. That's the way I like it.

I've been on BM for over three years now and several hundred transactions, and I've only twice had mooching experiences so nasty that I never want to have anything to do with those members again, ever.

The one I resolved successfully with the moocher on my own with nothing worse that flurries of lengthy and opinionated emails flying back and forth, and the emails from the second got so abusive I had to click on abuse.

That second moocher was eventually banned from the site, but to this day I still fret about the first moocher. Gosh, what if he mooches another book from me and I have to deal with him all over again?

:) There are worse thoughts to keep one up at night.

Has anyone else had a problem with a charity mooching from you and then not marking the book as received? I know they mooch a lot of books and maybe they are backlogged and they will mark it eventually, but the lack of response when I sent the book quickly and well wrapped makes me unhappy. I start to wonder if I should decline mooches from charities. This particular one seems to have forgotten that even though they do not need feedback (as they survive on points donated to them and have no inventory) I need the +1 so that people will want to mooch from me in the future. I thought it was a great idea when charities were incorporated into bookmooch, but this experience is making me doubtful.

As to the debate above, I always enjoy getting the fun little personal touches that some members include with mooches. However, I have not yet added any of my own. I am very tempted to put in a little card about the book blog I am starting, but I don't want to seem like I am using BM as free advertising or something.

#50 - I've never had that happen, every charity I've sent marked the book received in a timely manner. The other thing to remember about charities, is that they are often run by volunteers or employees of the charity, and the volunteer or employee might change or quit, and the replacement might not be interested in BookMooch or not know the rules. I would send a reminder, and than after time expires, mark it as lost. Also, the book in question really could be lost :)

As for your second question, I think it would be okay - especially if your card indicates that your review of the book you sent off will be in the blog - I'm always interested in what a previous book owner thought of a book. I have a note in my bio on BookMooch that says go to my Librarything account if you want to know what I thought of a book :)

#42 - I agree with RidgewayGirl (msg 44) If you are feeling a bit burnt out and have enough points, than just take your inventory down for awhile. I've been with BookMooch for a few years, and I've sent a number of books, but at this stage, I feel like sending out books is a burden, so I gave my inventory away to a library book sale, stopped buying inexpensive used books I know are wishlisted, and I only list books that I have read or no longer want. Its helped immensely.

Pretty frustrated at the moment!
Requested three books as an angel-mooch for someone.
Got them, re-listed them, and reserved them yesterday.
Packed them up last night after accepting the mooch.
Then overnight, the moocher's account was closed by admins for some reason, so I got cancellation e-mails, but by the time I'd even read those, all three books were mooched by others. So now I have to break up the package (taped to withstand a nuclear strike I swear!) and do it all over again.
No one's really done anything wrong, but I do wonder how someone's account can go from fine to closed with no warning at a moment's notice.
And maybe it makes sense but I wish books which had been listed and reserved immediately wouldn't be put back into circulation without notifying me

My rant is about myself...Life caught up with me this week and seems like I ran out time to get stuff done so I just had to delay 7 mooches for a week till I can get my head screwed back on right and get all caught up!
I notified everyone and hope noone is too upset!

I received a notification from someone today, if that was you I am not upset! :) :)

53: Don't worry Susie. I know what thats like :)

On another note (and the reason I clicked on this thread)

I'm not a ranter by nature. I tend to just accept things as they are, and try to move beyond any issues. But I am NOT impressed today. I recieved a package in the mail today from a moocher. Packaging was perfect, but the book conditions are so NOT. Every single last book is an older library book, with the spine STAPLED together. Some are even wavy from getting wet. All have ink stamps on them, writing in them, etc etc etc. Its a relatively new moocher and I hate to be negative about this but I'm appalled at the condtion of these books. The staples are so close to the text inside that the books are not even readable. Honestly, I do not know what to do about these books. I want my points back, but even if we could work something out, she doesn't have the points to smooch me back something.

I am disgusted. No condition notes and I didn't check. But what little feedback she does have is good. So I just took a leap of faith. Sigh. What a horrible lesson to learn. And honestly, my first bad experience in over a year. I'm just so disgusted at these books. I could live with the ex-library for a while, but these aren't even readable... which is sort of the point in mooching them!

Any advice folks? The good part of me wants to say "suck it up, its your mistake for not checking and being a trusting person" but the other part is saying "why on earth would someone put these books up to mooch?"

This is a I hope it's not going to turn into a rant rant.

I mooched a book from a newbie on the 29th {http://bookmooch.com/m/detail/1932350241} and still haven't heard anything. I sent her a nice email after I mooched it about using BM, etc since I was her first mooch. She's logged in since then, but no reply to emails and no notice of a book shipped.

I'd cancel, but it's a book I really want and is also wishlisted by others so I don't want to lose my chance, you know?

Mareofthesea, I would send her an email expressing your concerns and suggesting a solution (a point return?) and letting her know that if the books aren't in good used condition she is responsible for leaving condition notes. If she responds, work from there and if she doesn't, then leave negative and factual feedback. Being new doesn't excuse everything.

#55: I'm with RidgewayGirl... email her & let her know of your disappointment & request your points back. She may have to go into the negative numbers, but that's what happens when you send books that aren't in stated condition... she didn't state the condition so it is presumed to be in good or very good condition. IMO

#56: Give the newbie a chance. He/She may not realize that people are waiting for them to accept... the emails may not have gone thru... caught in a spam catcher. Click the email moocher & nudge her/him to at least accept the mooch. I've got lots of books that aren't accepted... some aren't accepted until they mail them. Patience is good....

Just a thought, sometimes I don't accept a mooch until I've dug the book out of it's box, made sure it's still in stated condition, etc. And sometimes that means I log in and out without accepting a mooch. It's a possibility with your newbie, maybe?

#56

I'd wait it out. I've had a newbie not even accept or mark my books as sent, and then had the volumes arrive in the mail about two weeks after I requested them! Since they were texts I really wanted, I'm glad I waited.

>52 Donogh: That stinks! However, if I am looking at the correct user's account history, admin had a pretty good reason to close the account. There was a 4:1 successful mooch ratio with over a hundred pending books to be sent when the account was closed, and from cancellation comments, some (perhaps even most or all) of those were delayed until August. They were still mooching books with those points, which seems a bad idea with that many pending requests.

>59 Heather19: I've had a few mooch requests where I emailed the person back to say I was planning to accept it but I needed to make sure the book was still there and it could be a day or two. That way nobody feels ignored. :)

I've sent the user a message. We'll see how she responds. The ex-library thing is one thing, but what is really ticking me off is the staples. They are heavy-duty construction staples, and basically completely useless. What library does this? I mean, the staples actually cut into the text (I took a closer look at them once I calmed down a bit) which makes the books unreadable and a complete waste IMO. There is no need to damage a book in this way.

I've seen school libraries do this with old paperbacks (eg. Puffin mass market paperbacks) due to the heavy wear some children place on them. Not sure if some schools still do that. However ones I obtained in the past were all readable and had condition notes, so there were no surprises.

Thats a bad situation Mare when I weed at my library if the book is in bad shape it doesn't go on the book sale it goes in the recycle bin!

I also just recieved one with no condition notes from a newbie it had no dust cover and a big oil splotch going through the book about 50 or so pages.I left a +1 with a note saying it should have said in your condition notes that it didn't have a dust cover and had a stain in it.So hopefully she went back and added condition notes.

>61 chelonianmobile:
True, but I feel there should be a less "nuclear" option. Some kind of halfway house where their pending mooches are put on hold while they clear the backlog that they're sending onwards.
Anyway, it's a rant, being rational has nothing to do with it! *grin*

>65 Donogh:

Well, even when people's accounts are put on temporary hold to wait for pendings to be cleared, all their mooches get canceled, right? I wish that didn't happen, but I can't figure out how the system would freeze mooches on the other end. Honestly, I cannot believe that person had the nerve to ask for an angel to begin with, given what they were doing. That is some chutzpah right there, my mother would say!

Mostly I just like to snoop when people have a rant like that. A good BookMooch mystery is my favorite. :)

# 56
Number 59 took the words right out of my mouth...(well, keyboard...)

I have two books requested for an angel mooch. The owner delayed them indefinitely, and when I asked if she could give me an estimate as to when she might send the books she replied that she wasn't sure since it depended on what she wanted to spend her allowance on.

It's been a month, so I asked again and this time she said that it's just too much work to mail out books, but maybe she'd feel like it at some unspecified future date.

Just blah. I'm somewhat surprised that someone with that sense of responsibility managed to sign up for BookMooch in the first place. Isn't there more than one step involved?

>68 RidgewayGirl: Oh Ridgeway, did she actually type that back in an email? = 0

Is she receiving books?

UNBEWEEAVABLE!!

#68- Ridgeway -Allowance???Umm how old is this person??

That's someone who just doesn't have the time/responsibility/maturity for something like BM. It'd be interesting to see if she makes time to request books from others.

I too have had a run of mildly bad luck lately with books lacking condition notes. Nothing like yours,Mare, but paperbacks so crumpled they look like someone had wadded them in a rage. I'm getting to where I feel the need to contact the owners and ask about condition when one isn't listed. I'm not expecting new, but I just want to have a reasonable appearance because I keep most of them.

68: Um.... wow. That kind of attitude definitely doesn't belong on BM. *hugs you*

>68 RidgewayGirl: – that sounds like a case to click abuse. If nothing else, she does need to have a visit from officialdom to explain to her that sending books isn't optional or dependent on her mood!

#68 & 73: or her "allowance"???

She's not mooching on points she doesn't have. She sent four and has mooched three and isn't scamming the system at all. She's just a little immature for this, which doesn't have to do with age, although, yes, the comment she made about her allowance did make me wonder. She could be the middle-aged mistress of a retail chain tycoon, who knows?

She is very clear about not planning on sending out any books and she's speedy about replying to emails, so I'm really just bothered that it was an angel mooch.

75: I agree with 73, though, she needs a reminder that sending books isn't optional, she doesn't get to say "oh I don't want to do this right now, maybe at some later time" AFTER they are mooched. If it's in her inventory, she is agreeing to send it.

75 > I'd definitely be annoyed if I had been dealing with her, but don't worry about it not working out. Hopefully someone us will offer them and I'll mooch them then. :)

About 3 months ago, I mooched six (6!) books from a member who has a so-so mooching history. It seems about half the books she sent out were received in good condition. Four of my books were marked sent at the end of March, which I found odd, but people do what they do, you know? I'm usually very patient, and don't really go investigating unless it's been quite some time since I mooched something. Now I look and she's been on vacation for more than a month, and most of her more recent pending mooches have been canceled. It's puzzling because she seemed to have been doing all right with the whole system for a while.... My emails to her have gone unanswered. This just makes me sad.

edited for clarity

Ugh that does not bode well..

Is it 'politically correct' to cancel a mooch that you've been waiting on for over a month, when you realize you need the book sooner and want to just go buy it? I've not had any response from the person...I'd like to just cancel it but am not sure if it's wrong. It hasn't been sent.

Most will cancel after 2-3 weeks (or less) if there has been no response. The account will be vactioned if you select 'did not respond' as the reason.

Yes, do cancel. I've found that if there is no action taken after two weeks, chances are the book will never be sent.

Back in April I mooched 2 books from one person. A short while later she marked one book mailed. The next day she marked the other book mailed.

A while later I received 2 emails stating both books had been marked lost because the owner's account had been closed.

I noticed that I received 1 of my points back for one of the lost books....but not the other. I reported the incident to the PTB and the only response I received was that they were only showing one book as being sent.

??? The response didn't make sense so I sent a response to that hopefully clarifying the situation. No response. I sent another email a few days later explaining the situation again, hoping to at least find out if my earlier emails had been received and the situation was being looked into.

To date, still no response and I'm still missing a point. Not really worrying overly much about the point as I'm sitting on enough points to last me for quite a while. But the lack of response is frustrating. All I really wanted to know is if someone is aware of the problem and is looking into it...or will be when time permits.

ETA...even though books were marked sent, I've still not received either one and would be very surprised if they show up under the circumstances.

I just mooched a copy of "Hannibal" and a copy of "Red Dragon" from a user. They were both accepted and sent out very quickly, so I was happy! I got them in the mail yesterday, and found that I had been sent a copy of "Hannibal Rising" instead of "Hannibal". I sent the user a not unkind email saying that she had sent me the wrong book, and that I would smooch her a point for it, but that I would also like the book that I actually mooched. (I also mentioned that I would be happy to mooch "The Silence of the Lambs" if she happened to have a copy.) Here is the email I got today:

"I don't have any other Hannibal or Thomas Harris books, sorry. I sent you whatever I had."

I am hesitant to leave negative feedback because both books are in wonderful condition, but I was a bit perturbed by the tone of the email. Is it my fault that she mislisted a book? No! I've sent her another email that states my problem with the mooch: I got a different book from the one I asked for.

Is it mean to leave neutral feedback in a case like this? I mean, this is really a fundamental bookmooch fail, seeing as I didn't get the book I mooched, despite the fact that both books were in very good condition and sent out very quickly.

*EDIT* I should probably also say that I already left feedback for "Red Dragon", (+1), mentioning the very good condition of the book and the speed of the shipping.

you need to tell her that she needs to return the point to you since she didn't send you the correct book.

(but check her "books given" to see if she sent another Hannibal book to someone else... and they were switched.)

Nicely (of course) let her know that she needs to return the point to you & that if she doesn't you will leave negative feedback and comment that she didn't send the correct book and refused to return the point.

IF at that point she says she will return the point, but you need to send the book back, then she must give you an additional point to compensate for the postage you will incur. (you don't need to tell her this unless she asks for the book back.)

The instructions about this are around somewhere... please forgive me if this isn't coherent... I need to be in bed... g'night & good luck!!

It wasn't switched with another book, I think she just mis-listed it and then didn't notice it or didn't realize that it was actually an entirely different book.

I would like to keep the book; I'm not upset to have it. Plus I don't want her to be out an extra point if I get a book out of the deal, you know?

Of course it's your decision, but she listed one book and sent another. There are many, many places on BM where it reminds people to make sure of what they are listing. You "paid" for a specific book, and got a different one. So yes, she should return your point.

Personally I think honest mistakes happen and in this case I would give her the benefit of the doubt since you actually like the book. I would let it go and just get Hannibal from another lister. Since I'm still unable to list on BM if you are a member of PBS I have a nice hardcover copy of Hannibal listed under this ID.

But do leave feedback stating that she sent the wrong book and was unable to send the one you mooched. It will let others know that she isn't careful when she lists books. Since you aren't upset, I would suggest a +0, since it was a neutral outcome. If she is unhappy with this, I'm sure she'll contact you and arrange a better outcome. If not, then you're done with the situation.

Thanks, rxtheresa, but I was already able to get a copy of it from another user who was sharing a book on my wishlist. Thank you anyway, though! :)

+0 feedback sounds like the way to go, it seems. Thanks, guys!

I signed up for Bookmooch over a year ago. Thought it would be a great idea. Listed a few books, all of which were mooched and sent out. Then, since I had some points I figured I'd mooch some books...

yeah, good luck with that one. If I can find a book that I want in the first place, 80% of them won't send out of their country and the other 20% are Canadian who won't send within Canada. So I used an angel to mooch a couple books last summer, then gave up 'cause what's the point if I have to do a song and dance.

So then I thought I'd try it again... guess what? Exact same problem. Find a book... (which is difficult enough) and then have to go find an angel who'll get it for me.

Sigh... I guess I'll just go to the bookstore... it's cheaper than mailing out books to other people and end up with points I can't use.

/end rant.

> 83

You most certainly deserve a followup email back from a BM admin regarding the situation! Someone should at least let you know that it is being looked in to and not leave you hanging like that.

>91 crazybatcow:

I am in Bulgaria - I get half of my books through the angel network. Is it perfect? No... but I get books so it is good enough for me. Your choice :)

>92 Weelass: Thanks Heather, that's all I really want is to know that someone is paying attention and making an effort to make a wrong right. If there is a glitch affecting the point system, I would think that would be of interest to admin. If not, it should be. It's not nice to mess around with a moocher's points....

Almost all my books are angeled, and I wouldn't have been able to get them without the angel network system! I agree with below, it's easier to have a long-term angel (which is what I have). But I have used the angel network before. There is an angel request thread in this group where it may be faster than asking via the list of angels.

crazybatcow, have you tried asking for angels through the thread here? I personally think it's harder and takes longer to ask through the actual Angel List, but most people get responses on the thread here within minutes.

A significant number of BMers live in places where there are very few other BMers. Many people have to look internationally for their books. That's the very reason the Angels were invented.

You could even ask for a long-term Angel. I fill up boxes for people, but I do have a lot of people I'm angelling for right now...

crazybatcow, what works for me is building up an enormous wishlist. With all the discussions going on on LT, this is not hard to do! Books aren't instantly available, but you'll end up with some surprising finds. I mooched a copy of The Children's Book right after it made the Booker shortlist and there have been other fantastic mooches, including out of print books and books not published in your country (I'm in the US and there are a lot of books available only in Canada or the UK).

It's less frustrating if you regard BookMooch less as instant gratification (like Amazon) and more like a quest.

I'm sorry your first experiences were disappointing. I would be glad to angel books for you from the US.

>91 crazybatcow:.....originally when I joined - over 2 years ago now, I also had difficulty getting people to mail to Canada. Now, through the help of BookMooch friends, I have had the good fortune of having one or two angels who assist me regularly. Take time - send notes to folks, sign up to read the forums here. Honestly if you invest the effort it will pay off.
God bless angels!!!

Now for one small rant of my own.......I fail to understand why someone has ask first status and then never answers the darn emails!!! In the past 2 or 3 weeks I have sent probably a half dozen requests, got nothing, then sent reminders and got nothing. I just find that incredibly rude! Take a moment and say you don't want to send if that's the case - but leaving someone hanging is darn frustrating!
--- Steps down off of soap box now and shuffles along to work ---

>99 debbie1can: - and I have the opposite problem - someone asked to mooch overseas - I said "sure no probelm" but the book has never been mooched.

I remember in a thread once there was a comment that if the person was new to BM that there spam filter? wasn't letting teh message through. Maybe that's it?

edited for - actually I wish that there was a place in BM that all parties could see the ask and the response.

>100 dudes22:

I just encountered an expired reservation from 2008 in my inventory! I was incredibly ashamed that I had missed an "ask first" but then discovered that I had in fact tagged the request email (that's how I keep track of mooches), which means the probability that I responded to the request is about 99% and the person just never mooched. :(

Getting "ask first" requests on the pending page is something we've been asking for the last year or so but I think some more major things have taken precedence. Hopefully soon, though!

That would be a great idea!

Today I "asked someone first" for a book, got no answer AND an immediate rejection! Now that is the rudest anyone has ever been to me on BM...sheesh. No response just a blatant rejection.

>102 Weelass: I can't remember if the "no" button has an option for a note or not. (Actually, I don't think I have experience with using the "no" button.)

>102 Weelass: I haven't used it either but you would think it would at least send an email to me saying that my request has been rejected. All I got was *crickets*!! ;)

>103 chelonianmobile:

I know the "Yes" button won't let you add a comment.

There's been a few times where I've wanted to say "Yes" -- but, "Did you read the condition notes?"

>104 Weelass:

Weelass, you're right, that was a very rude way for the person to respond, but as for lack of response, that's happened to me so many times, that I've made up a "form letter" to send to people who haven't responded. it goes like this:

"Hi _______:

Several days ago, I sent an automated Bookmooch request to see if you would be willing to send "______" by ____________ to my country (Canada).

I would really appreciate it if you would open that message and either accept or reject the request. All you need to do is click on the appropriate button.

If you accept, I can go ahead and mooch the book.

If you reject, I'll understand; there are people who don't want to send outside their country. But by rejecting, you will do two things. You will clear the reservation out of my name, so that someone else can mooch the book, and you will allow me to find a "Bookmooch Angel" to mooch the book for me. (A Bookmooch Angel is someone who will mooch a book from someone in their own country (who doesn't want to send outside of the country), and then act as a go-between to send it to someone who wants it outside of the original country).

If you can't find the original message, you can reply to this one, either giving me permission to mooch, or letting me know that you don't wish to send outside your country, although, in that case you should probably change your account settings from "Will send: ask if not to my country" to "Will send: only to my country", to avoid other people bothering you with similar requests.

If you would please let me know, one way or the other, I would appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,

(Signature)

I'd had mixed response to it, but enough people reply (either "Yes" or "No", at that point I'm happy just to get a reply) to make it worth my while.

>106 geophile: That is an awesome message! Do you mind if I use it?

I guess I was a little miffed because it all literally happended within five minutes of my mooch...I saw the highly WL'ed book so I emailed the person to "ask". I double checked to make sure I had the book reserved, only to discover that the person had already rejected my reservation with no explanation. Most people at least email you a "sorry" with a short explanation.

>107 Weelass:

No problem, Weelass -- feel free.

Thank you!!

#100

Your message just reminded me that I had "asked first" and received a response of "yes, if you mooch more than one book." That was last Friday, and I just now realized the books were not listed in my pending. I guess I thought that if I got a positive response to the "ask first," it meant I had mooched the book, but it didn't. Maybe this is what happened to your moocher?

geophile, I like your message! If you don't mind, I will copy and use your note as well (grin)

I have sent reminder emails with a similar theme and I try to adopt the attitude that they overlooked the first message or missed it all together. Sometimes I have gotten responses that said they never got the original request and they are glad I wrote and asked. It's the ones that don't answer at all that make me crazy!
Funny enough, I sent the last 4 "no responses" to my angel and asked her to please try and see if she got a response - one not only accepted, but mailed the book the next day! One rejected the request and said "someone on another list wants the book". So they are there - but appear to be just ignoring.

#110

The response just gives you permission to mooch the book. Now you have to go ahead and actually mooch it as usual.

I had a wishlisted book come up today, so I quickly snagged it and also picked a second one from the user's inventory. About six hours later I got a rejection email for the book I originally wanted, saying that it had been mooched by another user and somehow not deleted from the original user's inventory. I thought that to be a bunch of BS, as I obsessively check my wishlist when I'm online, and only just noticed this book. Sure enough, in the member's points history it shows that the book - the no longer available book - was added just this morning. So, probably it was traded on another site or some other such nonsense and the user felt more comfortable blaming the rejection on a bookmooch glitch. I sent the user an email asking how it was possible for the book to be "left over" in his inventory when it had only been added this morning, and have received no response.

Just after my first request was rejected the second was marked as sent. The kicker? It's an audio book. On cassette tape. I didn't even think to check, so I know that part of this mooch is completely my fault, but it just really irritated me and put the icing on a really disappointing mooch.

Argh!

>113 orangewords: I feel like that exact situation with the book not leaving inventory has actually happened to someone here before, and they were really confused as to how the book could have come back up. Turned out to be a glitch. Of course, they could just be being jerks. I'm sorry you're having a frustrating mooch in any case. :(

@114

No, I know it is a totally legitimate excuse at times, but looking at his points history it shows that he added the book the same day I requested it, that I was the only person to request any books from him on that day, and that he also rejected it and deleted it from his inventory on the same date. So maybe it is a glitch, but it makes me wonder...

Thanks for listening to me whinge about it in any event! Haha.

That's what we're here for!

Thank heavens everyone is here, too, or most of my meatspace friends would disown me.

It is quite a fishy situation.

> orangewords
We are here to help you feel better - and I'd be a tad irked (trying for restraint here) too!!

Well, this is a PBS gripe, not a BM one, but you will all empathize, I'm sure :)

I just got a book in the mail in way too large manila envelope that not only didn't have tape, but wasn't even sealed by licking the glue strip. Just the little metal twist thing. And it's pouring rain out. I'm sure you all see where this is going.

It's just like, I mean, REALLY? It was also addressed in pencil, which smudged. Quite frankly I'm surprised it got here at all.

The book is a bit damp, but will probably be ok, so I can salvage that at least, but it's like they couldn't have put in less thought if they tried.

119> Oh I hate it when people don't package the books right. I once requested a ~500 page book, and they wrapped it in one layer of plain old printer paper. Which would have been fine if it had been a small book, or had they bothered to put extra tape on the edges and corners, but no. It got to me with one corner ripped open and that corner of the cover all mangled.

macbrains: Make sure you put comments to the sender & to TPTB at PBS!! (as I'm sure you did)

Yeah, that gripes me, too....

If we had to make a % guess-timate, what percentage of books are NOT packaged adequately? What % are packaged reasonable but are mangled by the post office?

My "badly packaged" % would be approximately 5%

My "post office" % would be around 1%
(not including carrier 'errors' which varies)

Skittles, in addition to your questions, I wonder what percentage of BMers are on LT and read these forums. There doesn't really seem to be any other way for BM members to read about the problems caused by poorly packaged books, so if the number is few, then many must continually package books inadequately and never learn that it's a problem. I guess it an argument in favor of forums on BM.

So far, counting books from both PBS and BM, about 150 all told, I guess at about 15% plus not packaged adequately, but most of those made it to me undamaged despite the packaging.

>120 alexa_d:

That baffles me. Anyone who's had a hardcover with a dust jacket knows how all you have to do is breathe on the book to get it to damage the paper jacket. It's amazing they would think that a thin sheet of paper would be adequate protection to have it handled and mailed across the country (or the world).

>121 skittles:

Yes, I did leave a note about the condition both to the sender and TPTB.

I get quite a few books in just manila envelopes, but at least they use tape! This was my first not-taped-at-all package (though I did get one yesterday that used scotch tape.)

On the other hand I also get some books that have been packed with such great care they could withstand an explosion. Some of those are works of art!

I use bubble mailers, both new & recycled, and if I have to send in a box I use spare bubble wrap or those large air bubble things that come in amazon boxes. I'll wrap in plastic when using a priority envelope. Adequate, but not bomb-proof.

.... The packages I send out are usually bomb-proof. Mom has complained in the past that I go through packing tape too quickly, but better too much then not enough, right?

I've been relatively lucky, I think the not-adequately-packaged books account for less then 5% of what I've recieved... maybe less then 3%. Unfortunately, the adequately-packaged-but-mangled-by-PO-anyways is probably closer to 10%.

Hi,
I'm a newbie in need of advice. I've given away a bunch of books (40 points so far!), and made my first "mooch" at the beginning of this month. The gal accepted my mooch, but didn't mail it, and today she canceled, explaining that she'd made a mistake and didn't have the book anymore. (Recently, she's canceled about 10 books with odd explanations.)

Because this is my first mooch ever, I'm not sure what to do. Should I give feedback at all? If so, what?

I'm not greatly inconvenienced, but I sure hope this isn't typical behavior.

I'd appreciate any advice you folks can give.

Sorry to hear your first mooch (after sending so many), went badly.

This member rejected your reques, for a reason that is not permitted (she either didn't have the book, or changed her mind..) This is stated as being against the rules when the rejection was made..

In this case, please click 'abuse' on the member's bio, it is suggested to do so when you see a pattern of such behavior.

#125 What book were you trying to get??Maybe one of us has it and can get it out to you.

Hi, not really a complaint here, more of a confusion.

First thing, I had a book listed and it was mooched, I accepted, then couldn't find it. Anywhere. I cancelled, apologized profusely, etc. The moocher got their point back (we're talking within the week since the mooch). So in the meantime, I find it...in my son's room (why would a 17 year old boy be reading Nora Ephron?????). Apparently he was putting books away and that was mixed in (that's his story anyway).
So I email her back because it's still on her wishlist, but she says no thanks but still has it on her wishlist. Was it a matter of I ticked her off or ???? Was my mistake that bad?

The other thing is that nothing comes up on my wishlist. When it does, it's snapped up immediately, or in 2 cases, couldn't be found (so I'm not the only one who misplaces them!!LOL). How can I get more wishlisted books? Mine aren't terribly popular titles, more obscure I'd say, but still??? Any advice?

128: I'm not really sure about the second part...

But as for wishlisted books, I find that my wishlist grows considerably after checking out other member's wishlists. People I've mooched from in the past, people who've mooched from me, people here on LT.... and it's fun, too, to see the differences and similarities in tastes.

Have you thought about what authors you like? What genres/authors you haven't read much of but would like to try?

You wishlist only 65 items, so I am not surprised nothing comes up very often. If you have a large wishlist, more comes up theoretically. I have just over 2000 on the wishlist (just under 1000 individual items, but there are amazon duplicates) and there's only 17 items on it (a couple reserved for me, the rest I either don't want at the moment due to poor condition, smoking environment, bookcrossing stickers, lack of points, or some other reason).

Try exploring LT and adding books to your wishlist that appeal to you. I've made a habit of adding books to my wishlist when I read an interesting review and of following recommendations to other books. One of the strengths of BookMooch is that it allows you to try a book or a new genre without due dates or high expense. Haunt your BookMooch wishlist when you can--you'll be surprised at what comes up.

>126 markwp:
>127 susiesharp:
Thanks for the suggestions, markwp and susiesharp. I'll follow up with "abuse."

The book I tried to mooch was The Falls by Joyce Carol Oates. I'm not in a big rush for it--it's a book I'd like to read someday, and it looks like it's available from time to time.

I just had a different request accepted by another person--maybe this time things will go better.

Thanks for the advice!

HAHA! So you mean my frustration with never finding anything on BM is likely related to my wishlist only holding 34 unique items.... hahaha...

I've found a new way (for me, anyway) of finding several books to mooch recently. I usually do a search each day for favorite authors, and I used to ignore listings of books I already have. Lately I have been clicking on them and checking the inventory of the lister, the theory being that if they are listing one book I like they might have more in their inventory that I would also enjoy. I'm amazed at how often I end up finding books that look interesting. In fact, last night I did that and ending up mooching three other books from a newbie. I was also able to send her the link to our newbie thread and hopefully we'll see her here on the boards.

133: Yes. :)

>119 macsbrains: I know this is late to be commenting but I got a package exactly like that, except that there was 34 cents due on it and I had to go pick it up at a remote post office. In the rain! To be fair that is the only bad package I have ever had in my time on BM, but it was a doozy. I emailed the sender and she shrugged it off. Really annoying.

This is a self-rant but I had to get it out! Does anyone else get irritated about the fact that they can't read in any language other than English??? I have to sit there and stare at related editions available of wishlisted books that I REALLY WANT to read. If only I could read German, French or Italian! *sigh*

YES! omg yes, that really really annoys me, Bella. I've even tried mooching "learn such-and-such language" books, but I can't seem to learn enough to actually read in that language.

My "Elizabeth Bathory wishlist"? Most of those books are in Dutch or Hungarian. ..... They are still in my wishlist though, because I'll be damned if I'd pass up an EB book, even if I can't actually read the language (yet).

#137: You know what the problem is with knowing other languages? You start to notice how bad many translations are. I'm no language wonder, but besides English I can read Dutch and simple German. And I definitely don't want English translations of Dutch books or Dutch translations of English books. Somehow, they never get the dialogues right.

And do you know how difficult it is to get a book in a particular language if you want it? I've had the Tintenherz trilogy on my wishlist for ages, and the English translation popped up quite regularily, and the German version never did. I ended up buying them in the end, and now I've read them I can't find a moocher for them.

If a book is written in a language I really can't understand (Polish, Icelandic, Czech...) I often prefer to get an English translation because it tends to be better than the Dutch one.

So, count your blessings - English has loads of books and very passable translations, and they are available on BookMooch as well.

139: I totally understand your points about really BAD translations. I read books in French, German and English and sometimes I just wonder what on earth the translator was thinking. I understand that the author might have said that exactly, but some things just do not translate well. I would rather read a translated, interpreted novel than one that was translated directly, word for word, without any effort made to make the novel readable. Sometimes a saying just doesn't translate, or dialogue just doesn't flow in another language. IMO, efforts should be made to accomodate this.

Whenever possible, I try to find the book in the original language, and go from there. I haven't really tried to find any on BM, as I have quite a few relatives that send stuff to me.

I would love to learn Italian or Japanese but I think 3 is enough for now. As it is I'm never sure exactly what's going to come out of my mouth. I've been known to ask people a question in German and wonder why I'm getting a strange look. I get even stranger looks when I combine languages into one sentence. Does anyone else have this problem? Or am I special? LOL!

When we're doing cryptic crosswords, my husband (who translates Dutch into English) occasionally gets muddled and suggests a Dutch word instead of an English one! I point out that, whilst it may fit, it's unlikely to be correct ... He also recalls a time in the Netherlands when he and his late wife tried to play Scrabble with a Dutch set - there were rather more Zs than usual!

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd to have an Angel option on the Bookmooch site? If the moochees who won't send outside their country saw that others in their same country will do so, wouldn't that make them wonder why they don't do it themselves and get the extra points for their own accounts?

Or is there a really big increase in shipping costs to send to (for example) Canada from the US that makes the extra 2 points not worth it? (From Canada to Canada is ~$9.50 a book, from Canada to the US is $7.80 - $9) but the former gives only 1 point and the latter 3.

Anyway, maybe I'm missing something.

>140 Mareofthesea: Mareofthesea I know exactly what you mean about mangling your languages I study French and Spanish which are awfully similar in some ways and I have huge difficulty sometimes figuring out if I've just stuck a french word in the middle of a spanish sentence. Gah eventually I may be able to separate the two languages but not just yet :P

*scoots on out of the Rants thread* I have nothing to rant about and hopefully if the ask first request i sent earlier for a book that popped up on my wishlist comes back as a "yes" then I may have happy tidings rather than grumpy.

>142 crazybatcow:
Some members simply cannot afford international postings - it can be a big difference in postage costs between local and overseas, especially when there is only an air mail option.
Whereas, for some of us it is a better cost vs points ratio to send overseas - it just depends on which country you are sending from...and what the local postage rates are.

For example, I can't always afford to send to SE Asia as there is no sea mail option from Australia (which is one reason I am 'ask first'); and sometimes I just cannot justify spending nearly $30 using sea mail (hate to think how much air mail would cost) for a heavy book to send anywhere (the second reason I am 'ask first').

Why is it strange to have an 'angel' request thread on BookMooch? Where else would it be so convenient... and I just know it will encourage more international sends and provide us with more angel help. And that is a good thing.
There is a formal 'angel network' which has been working out of BookMooch for years - this just gives it a more voluntary basis, and allows any member to choose to get it (like our thread) rather than asking just one listed 'angel' person (who may or may not be on their computer at the time) to do so. An d it spreads around the onus, especially to countries like the US which have lots of members who don't send.

I really can't find a negative in any of this. :)

I agree LMAN I have set to ask first but learned the hard way I won't be sending to the Singapore again for what I paid for shipping they could have bought the book!But Lesson Learned!

Being Northamericancentric, I was thinking mostly of US-Canada mooches (I understand that "overseas" from anywhere is ridiculously priced).

I don't believe there is a huge difference in postage costs between US-US and US-Canada? And for the extra 2 points, it's gotta be cheaper to send one book to Canada than 3 books within the US?

I just wondered why a US moochee (who won't send outside the US now) would use the BM angel option since they are already in BM and choosing not to send outside of the US.

That, and... how come some people *can* send overseas? Are they rich? Or generous? Or sending out good karma? (i.e if person A in the US can't send to Canada for 3 points, how come person B doesn't have a problem with this? Yes, I know some people don't have much money, but from my experience, nearly all the moochers who have books I'd be interested in will not send to Canada, so the reason can't just be money...)

Actually, I wonder if it's cheaper to send from the UK to Canada than from the US to Canada because most UK books I find will send here...

Anyway, I'm just thinking over this stuff 'cause I don't want to do any work today :-)

I wish BookMooch had an option to check a box that says "Willing to ship to _________" and you fill in the country. I'd pick Canada. From everything I hear, shipping to Canada would be almost the same as shipping within the US. I'd be willing to do that.

I don't want to put my account to Ask First because of my perception of the hassle and my absolute inability to say no even when I want to.

I don't have the money to consistently ship outside the US. It's not a matter of $/point, but absolute $. But the occasional mooch to Canada would make me feel less guilty about not being an international shipper.

>139 wester: I completely agree that reading translations is not preferrable at all to the original book... My main problem is that character's names sound out of place (or worse, they make up a crazy translated name! -- like Lunático, Colagusano, Canuto y Cornamenta :S).

Don't even get me started on movie subtitles.

146: I just wondered why a US moochee (who won't send outside the US now) would use the BM angel option since they are already in BM and choosing not to send outside of the US.

Because it's permitted by the rules? It also seems to me that someone who doesn't have the economic wherewithal to send abroad might not have the economic wherewithal to buy a lot of books, either. But if they have the points to use the angel network, they've already paid their dues by sending out books and the BookMooch rules forbid users from making value judgments on other user's habits.

That, and... how come some people *can* send overseas? Are they rich? Or generous? Or sending out good karma? (i.e if person A in the US can't send to Canada for 3 points, how come person B doesn't have a problem with this?

Maybe person B has a higher paying job, or fewer children, or lower medical costs, or the ability to go to the post office and fill out customs forms in person? There could be any number of reasons.

For what it's worth, I'm quite thankful to U.S. moochers. I've found them (and Hong Kong BookMoochers, for whatever that's worth) more willing to send abroad--and send single volumes abroad--than moochers from other countries.

When I first joined I sent books to England, Australia, France, and Canada. Postage to Canada isn't much more than to the U.S., but now that the US has ended surface mail, all books overseas have to be sent first class, and it's expensive, generally $10 or more for one book. I've got many more points than I can use, and I finally decided I had to stop with the international shipping, so I've changed my "status" to read:

At the moment I am unable to send to countries other than the U.S. and Canada. I encourage moochers to request help from a BookMooch Angel, who can mooch the book within my country and ship to you. (http://wiki.bookmooch.com/index.php?title=BookMooch_Angel_Network)

Sometimes I get a request anyway, and then I write a personal note explaining why I've refused the request and, again, suggesting an angel. I've already had one international moocher who wrote back and thanked me for the idea, and they got an angel to mooch the book.

Thank goodness for Angels! And I second the request for a page on which we can check a list of countries to which we'll ship so moochers will have a clearer idea of who will do what.

I realized I forgot Spanish in my foreign language rant. Oh what I wouldn't give to be able to read Shadow of the Wind in spanish!!!

But don't you love that BookMooch assumes that you can read in both Finnish and Portuguese? Scandinavian languages translate better into German than into English and without BookMooch I would rarely be able to get them in German.

I think that many American moochers don't send to Canada because they've never done it, and we are all wary of the unfamiliar. I've found that even sending elsewhere in the world, the point cost is not that much higher - in general it costs me between 8 and 15 dollars to send overseas and 4 to 5 dollars to send to Canada. Of course I do have to fill out customs forms, and I have excluded my heavier hardcovers from international mooches, but since I'm used to it, it's an easy way to get a few extra points without significant extra cost.

Also, many people here are able to print out their postage at home, so that mailing a book domestically requires only a walk down to the mailbox, while international mooches need to be taken to a post office. If the person lives in a rural area, that can be difficult. And some people aren't as mobile as others. I have a post office located along my usual travel route and my own car, so it's easy for me.

I too prefer "original" language when I can get it, but in defense of translators. I have worked as a translator/interpreter for a number of years, and in my time translators were poorly paid, which meant that they took on work for which they were sometimes ill-prepared, just to keep the money coming in.

The ideal translator for any author should be a person who is bi-lingual and totally understands all the nuances of both languages, possesses good writing skills, and - most importantly - is able to literally "get into the mind" of the original author so as to write the translation in the same style as the author.

>143 RLMCartwright: If you really want to learn not to "mix up" your languages, you should diligently practice THINKING in the language. Don't translate mentally as you read in Spanish or French, just absorb. Watch the foreign films without the sub-titles, and try to find conversation groups in the language you are working on.. those go too fast to mentally translate all the time and your brain is trained to think in the language.

Also, many people here are able to print out their postage at home, so that mailing a book domestically requires only a walk down to the mailbox, while international mooches need to be taken to a post office.

Yes, this. Between a job, kids, and life in general -- getting to the PO during PO hours is simply not a priority for me.

I usually sacrifice a part of my lunch hour to go to the post office in the town where I work. Today, sending 6 books in 2 packages took about 15 minutes.

Occasionally I go to the post office in the town I live in, but that actually takes longer than going at lunch time.

Oh, printing postage from home would be cool. Do packages sent within the US have to be weighed? or is it flat rate?

155: That would be nice. Going to the post office on my lunch hour would take up most of the lunch hour.

156: Packages up to 13 ounces can be weighed or have stamps. Packages above 13 ounces (and not international) have to have electronic postage, as I recall. All international packages are supposed to be dropped off at a post office directly.

There are some priority flat-rate options for USPS. Media mail is cheaper for inside the country though.
http://www.usps.com/prices/priority-mail-international-prices.htm

#156 - I use www.paypal.com to ship all my domestic mooches - if you use first class or media mail, The packages have to be weighed.

For international, If the book is bigger, I use www.usps.com to pau and print priority mail international mailing label, but unfortunately, for small packages shipped internationally by first class international, I still have to go to the post office. The US post office doesn't do first class or media mail shipping on its site (both international and national).

Edited because apparently, I need more sleep and can't write what I am actually thinking.

#158 -

Just a note... Paypal also does Priority Mail for domestic & international shipments - but not First Class Int'l. For that, you do still have to go to the P.O.

Warning: This post contains math :)

I send internationally but it's not because I can especially afford it, because honestly, if I lived alone I wouldn't even be able to afford a studio apartment (and I work full time!) but because I feel like it works out better for both myself and the moochers in the long run.

My first reason is that I already had some experience sending and receiving packages internationally before I joined Bookmooch. Because I like Japanese manga I bought many books and other items directly from Japan back when the internet was a baby. I had to learn about international money orders (pre-paypal) and customs forms and all the other hassles that go along with international transactions. I was very appreciative of those who were willing to put up with it to help me get cool stuff. I returned the favors when I could and they were just as happy to receive their letters and packages as I was. Warm tinglies all over and once you get used to it, it doesn't take too much extra effort.

My second reason is that if you look at your $'s to points to books ratio as a whole it can often make a lot of sense to send internationally (especially US to Canada). If you send one book at a time in the US domestically then of $2.50 = 1 point

Consider some examples of having 4 mass market books up for mooch:

1 dom. moocher mooches all 4. Estimate $3 to ship them. Avg = $0.75/point
4 dom. moochers mooch all 4. Estimate $2.50 each to ship. Avg = $2.50/point
1 intl. moocher & 3 dom. moochers. Estimate $9 + 3($2.50). Avg = $2.75/point
1 intl. moocher mooches 2, and 2 dom. moochers. Estimate $13.00 + 2(2.50). Avg = $2.25/point
1 intl. moocher mooches all 4. Estimate $26 or less (1-2 flat rates or packages). Avg = less than $2.16/point, usually quite a bit less.
If each of these happens at separate times (4 books x 4 instances) then Avg = $2.06. The money you save sending 4 domestically more than helps offset the price of sending 1 internationally.

In short, heavy books can be a problem to send internationally unless you can fill up a big flat rate box, but if you can send 2 or 3 books to the same person overseas it's definitely worth it. Not as much as sending the same books in one package domestically, but often better than sending them separately. The best part is that you can control the limits of the international mooches to a great degree until the BM rules. And I send internationally as I can according to my own limitations.

My third reason is much simpler - sending overseas makes me happy and I like to think of it as getting stamps on my passport. I get excited to see a request from a country I haven't sent to.

(oh, and sorry for scaring anyone off with the math. I rewrote this post twice because there started to be more numbers than letters the first time....)

Within the US I find the best thing is to download Shipping Assistant free at the USPS site. You need a scale and you plug the address and weight into the program and you can see the First Class, Media Mail and Priority price options.

You can use stamps on any weight package but if it is over 13 ounces you have to present it at the post office. Also if you use shipping assistant to print your label DC for First Class and Media Mail is only 19 cents whether you put stamps on it or buy the postage at the PO. Priority Mail DC is free.

Yeah, international sending can be complicated, money-wise. Some people simply can't afford it... Like me, awhile ago. Yes, it gives more points-per-mooch, but when you have $15 for BM-shipping and no more.... I can send 5-7 packages domestically, or 1 package outside North America and then maybe 1 or 2 domestically.

I'm one of those who sends internationally even though I can't really afford it. If I actually don't have the money, like my above example, I delay the mooch. But if I have the money and it's technically cabfare or live-on money, I'll use some for international shipping. Because I like sending international.

But some simply can't afford it. I think, too, that some people (especially in the US) aren't knowledgable about flat-rate boxes, or different shipping options. I've angeled books for people where the US-person had rejected saying it would cost "such-and-such" to mail, and I put it in a flat-rate and it's a fraction of that cost.

Yeah, I angel regularly for a particular person in Australia, and she double-checked with me whether a USPS quoted price given to another US member ($14 for a skinny picture book! probably quoted as priority flat-rate) was accurate. It ended up being $9.04 for 1st-class.

I also think new people often like to start out with "to my own country" until they feel really comfortable with BM and then may broaden their shipping internationally as was my intention.

Why does a book show up on my wishlist if the persons account is on hold GRRR it just teases me everyday!

I've got one of those too susie - I'm with you; plus one of my pending.
What I'd like to know is how long is an account kept on hold? I guess they wait to see if books are sent, or some such???

Here is their mooch History and the wierdest part is the smooches all but 3 are from the same person.So I can understand why this person is on hold but I still think it shouldn't come up on my wishlist!
Inventory: 9
Points: 23.9
Mooched/given: 76/18
Pending mooch/give: 0/4
Mooch ratio: 3.16:1

Wishlist: 380
Feedback: +15
Smooches: 76
Charitable gifts: 1
Friends: 2
Cancelled requests: 10
Books receiving lost: 4
Books sending lost: 1

I suppose they stay on our wish-lists in case the account is sorted and then the book IS available again for mooching. But it is very frustrating while it is being sorted...
I just keep telling myself I wouldn't get it anyway.

How come that account is so far over the ratio though??
Mine are not so obvious at to why they are 'on hold'.

.

#168 If people mooched books from them and then cancelled because the book was never sent but the book owner had used the points to mooch books from others which were sent then I think that would cause the ratio to go over like that.

Ahhhh... of course! Thanks.

Not good either way - huh?

Its the smooches that really confuse me 73 smooches from one person??
And the person who gave all the smooches account has been closed.

#171 Sounds scammy. The 73 smooches could've been a way to transfer points from one account to the other.

#165 I have a couple accounts like that which are driving me crazy. One person has several books I would mooch if their account were active, and it has been taunting me for months.

I think if the account has been on hold long enough you can contact abuse for them to close it permanently? Although last time I did that a few months ago nothing came of it, which made me sad.

I just had to cancel 9 books this morning, all from my wishlist - after over a month and 2 reminders no response from the givers.

And I really wanted some of them too!

sporcloid, this has been exhaustively discussed; it is against the BookMooch terms of service to reject a mooch because the person requesting your book cannot send internationally.

Please do not put such conditions on your bio page Sporcloid -- not that you've posted here, a dozen people will probably issue reports about it..

Do keep in mind that many people ship internationally at some times but not others, may be facing difficult economic times, etc, etc....

I so understand sporcloid, but as much as I am sometimes a little annoyed that I must accept mooches from people in other countries who do not send international, I always accept the mooch and look at it this way: I am providing a good example for others and I am sharing books with people who want or need them.
When I overshot my mail-out budget this month, I was totally frustrated, so I have some empathy for those who simply cannot afford it. Postage for interntional can be darned exdpensive at times!!!!

Leaving aside the money issue, some people don't send internationally because they physically can't. In the USA, mail carriers can pick up most domestic packages. International packages require a trip to the post office. For people who are housebound or live in an isolated area, sending internationally is often not feasible.

Shipping internationally also costs me money. I don't have unlimited funds either. And nobody comes to my house to pick up packages. Every mooch (domestic and international) means a trip to the post office to have the package measured and weighed. I'm not particularly interested in discussing that, however. Let's agree to disagree (and please note that I have been very flexible with the terms I mentioned earlier if people have asked politely).

I am curious, though. Where in the terms of service (http://bookmooch.com/about/terms) does it say anything about acceptable and unacceptable reasons for declining a mooch?

>181 sporcloid:

With regards to the TOS, that's a legal thing, and what constitutes an acceptable rejection reason is not a legal matter. I wish we had more than the wiki to say what constitutes an acceptable reason for rejection, but for what it's worth, it's on the wiki.

Going from what people here have said, nobody comes to your house to pick up packages because Canada Post sucks. :P Though I wonder if they have it somewhere? Canada has even more far-flung regions than we do; it would make sense. I know you've been quite good about international stuff in general, of course, as it's in your history. The status change is very cricket of you! (Why has that phrase entered my vocabulary?)

Semi-relatedly, I've been wondering lately whether Canadians feel as frustrated with people who don't send out-of-province as they do with people who don't send internationally.

Oops, up past my bedtime.

>182 chelonianmobile: - I assume that last bit was directed at me, and I freely admit that I deserve it. Unfortunately, it costs more money to send a book to some provinces than it does to send it to Kenya or Azerbaijan. There was a time when I didn't want to ship to the expensive provinces, but I had to change my mind on that when a book that I wanted came up in one of those provinces (although I had continued to send several books within Canada--it just seemed wrong not to send a Mordecai Richler book to Montreal, since Richler is from Montreal). I figured it would be hypocritical of me, so I do it even though I get 1 point for a $9 package when I could have gotten 3 points and sent it to the States for $5.

Personally, I choose to send worldwide because I want everyone to have a chance to get a book that they want. I understand that many people have monetary issues, and for that reason, I don't get angry at someone for not sending out of their country. However, I do find it annoying when people say that they will not send within Canada because of cost per point. It is okay to require that more than one book at a time be mooched. And it is okay to suggest a smooch for the high cost of postage. Do that instead. There are always ways around things, and sometimes a friendly smooch helps.

I have yet to find someone who refuses to send to an 'expensive' province. However, I am in Sask so it's kinda right in the middle of everything so that could not be too much of a problem. I have noticed tho that the farther east I go the more expensive it gets.

I could go into the whole I want the option to only spend one point on a book thing, but postage costs make that arguement well... I just won't go there.

And now I am getting off my soapbox and going to finish pumping out my basement... anyone need water?

Personally, I choose to send worldwide because I want everyone to have a chance to get a book that they want. I understand that many people have monetary issues, and for that reason, I don't get angry at someone for not sending out of their country. However, I do find it annoying when people say that they will not send within Canada because of cost per point. It is okay to require that more than one book at a time be mooched. And it is okay to suggest a smooch for the high cost of postage. Do that instead. There are always ways around things, and sometimes a friendly smooch helps.

I have yet to find someone who refuses to send to an 'expensive' province. However, I am in Sask so it's kinda right in the middle of everything so that could not be too much of a problem. I have noticed tho that the farther east I go the more expensive it gets.

I could go into the whole I want the option to only spend one point on a book thing, but postage costs make that arguement well... I just won't go there.

And now I am getting off my soapbox and going to finish pumping out my basement... anyone need water?

The reason postage gets more pricey the farther East you get in Canada is because Canada Post has higher feed costs here - the shipping cost for grain from the Prairies for the pony express is ex-pen-sive!

hahahahahah

>183 sporcloid: Oh, no, I actually wasn't directing that one at you! It's just something I was thinking about, as it seems like kind of a similar situation to international mooches, what with the more expensive and people having two-book minimums and stuff. I ought to have said Finnish, Australian, and Russian moochers as well, but that's a mouthful and I think recently they were talking about adding France to that? Too many countries to list, and I was talking to a Canadian. :)

>184 Mareofthesea: Your basement flooded? Nooooo! *hugs*

>186 crazybatcow: I am sure it gets bad when you go really West as well. Those dogsled teams must cost a fortune. They should just contract out to Santa.

#187: "They should just contract out to Santa."

Yeah, but he only delivers once a year! We ALL need books more frequently!

>188 skittles: Well, what is he doing the rest of the year, realistically? Canada can't take that long in the grand scheme of things, given how much the guy supposedly gets done in one night. I'd think it would be both a nice break from supervisory duties at the North Pole and a good set of mini practice runs leading up to the Big Day.

>189 chelonianmobile:

Overseeing the gifts making? :) And working on his sledge to make sure that it won't break in the only day it needs to work...

>190 AnnieMod: That's what the staff is for! The North Pole is trying to work on this economic stimulus thing and create more jobs for the elves. There must be some who are suited to managerial positions. :P

Maybe Mrs. Claus can start up a side business. One must exercise the reindeer on a daily basis, after all, and nobody else would be using the sleigh . . .

#189, 190, 191:

Ok, If Santa took the mail delivery over from Canada Post (or any other postal system), he'd be putting some great postal workers out of work (and some not so great ones, but anyway).

We've also seen what's happened when Santa has had to outsource some of the toy making... those metal toys & kids jewelry from China... and the quality of those outsourced toys are awful. We really need him to focus on his core skills.. making & delivering TOYS at Christmas.

And, yes, it feels like Christmas, Hanukkah, Eide &/or Winterfest, when our books arrive...

What really needs to happen is that the citizens of those countries with outrageous postal rates need to talk with their government representatives... the ones they vote for... investigate the history & business & set up of their postal system... why does it cost so much more than other countries? Can another less expensive postal rate be set up?

Write to the papers, news organizations, political parties.. perhaps this has been done, but maybe the push needs to be stronger!!

And the next time Santa comes for Sunday dinner, I'll let him know of your suggestion. The worst he can say is NO!!! (hey, I make really great lasagna!!)

The news reports are saying that the current head of Canada Post is in talks to become the next chief executive of the Royal Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/canada-post-chief-could-join-r...

Moochers in the UK beware!

>192 skittles: I am occasionally convinced that my regular carrier is in fact some sort of magical being.

Some of the problem with Canada's postal system is probably that the country is roughly the same size as the United States but has a population only about a tenth of that. If mail volume is significantly lower but still has to travel the same distance, it's going to be more expensive to move the mail and the cost gets passed on to consumers.

The US population is almost 10 times Canada’s (307 vs 33 million) and is more densely concentrated across 9.62 square km. Our 33 million are scatted over 9.98 million square km so I would think it’s virtually impossible for Canada Post to achieve the same economies of scale as the US.

#192 I generally don’t care for pasta but I love lasagne. If Santa can’t make it ...

#194 great minds...
:-)

>196 Jenni_Canuck: Procrastinating minds, in my case. :)

I've actually worked out that without Media Mail the situation with domestic mooching in the United States would be trickier. Right now, sending a package of 13oz to Alaska via Media Mail costs under three dollars (super lucky!) and First Class is generally only three and a bit. However, once you get to 14oz and above, the only options left are parcel post and flat-rate envelopes, and Parcel Post starts at just under five dollars. If the book didn't fit in an envelope, sending a 17oz package to Alaska would cost me eight dollars(ish). At which point sending to Canada is cheaper.

Quite true Jenni, the same is true of Russia and Australia -- two other large countries with excessive domestic rates, of course there are also small-in-size countries with very high rates...

194/195: Yes, but Canada could add a book rate.

I've pondered this when people complain about US postal rate hikes and complain that a private business runs more cost effectively, and that the post office could learn some lessons. People are forgetting the huge benefit we have in having the same cost of service to anywhere, including remote rural areas. If the USPS ever had to really run as cost effectively as other services they would have to take the same measures that the airlines do. They would have to eliminate or reduce service to unprofitable routes and charge more for areas that cost more. I think we have a huge benefit in the way that things are run now and for the most part get a pretty good bargain overall. Like everyone else I wish we still had surface mail available for international mailing, but all things considered, we are pretty fortunate not only in our costs but in the consistency of our service regardless of what type of area people live in. Sometimes when I hear the naysayers I can't help thinking to watch out what you wish for; you just might get it.

Also, the comment on the geographical size of Canada versus the population really makes a good point. All along I have been wondering why Canada's post is so much more expensive, but of course in light of the size/population ratio it makes perfect sense.

*edited for spelling*

Also every domestic package in Canada gets a tracking number, and is tracked.

No way to opt out of this, unless the book is so thin that it can be sent as a letter (most adult books are too thick for this).

That process must add a lot of cost to the system, and in most cases I find it unnecessary.

THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED!!

the new thread is here: http://www.librarything.com/topic/91788

Thanks for everyone's help & support!!