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1kiwidoc
I am a great fan of Folio publications and have been subscribing for years. They are beautiful.
However, in the past 20 years, I would have done much better to invest in first editions or other, as the market value does not go up. One ebayer said this was because of their slipcases and great preservation potential, making them plentiful on the second hand market in good condition.
Do any of you collect with the idea of appreciation?
However, in the past 20 years, I would have done much better to invest in first editions or other, as the market value does not go up. One ebayer said this was because of their slipcases and great preservation potential, making them plentiful on the second hand market in good condition.
Do any of you collect with the idea of appreciation?
2P3p3_Pr4ts
Hi kiwidoc , I'd like to point you to a thread where this was discussed, but haven't found it ..d-oh
If I'm remembering well, only Limited Editions seem to appreciate .
First editions of each publication, seem to hold their value. Also the first FS books in forties and fifties have appreciated regarding their price tag
best regards
Ps myself a reader rather than a collector
If I'm remembering well, only Limited Editions seem to appreciate .
First editions of each publication, seem to hold their value. Also the first FS books in forties and fifties have appreciated regarding their price tag
best regards
Ps myself a reader rather than a collector
3CurrerBell
The reason they don't appreciate in value is because (like those silver medals issued by the old Franklin Mint) they are vastly over-priced in their original releases. As far as their "preservation potential" (and I've seen that explanation by that particular eBay seller, which as far as I'm concerned is just a come-on to potential bidders), I think the real reason there are so many of them out there in such good condition is because people who spend that kind of money on FS editions are the kind of people who usually take good care of their books.
Don't get me wrong. I've got quite a number of FS myself (including, I think, the complete Elizabeth Gaskell though I'm not sure because I've bought them one-by-one), but every FS I've bought has been on eBay, probably at a price less than the original issue, and certainly without my having had to make the purchase commitment that FS membership requires.
There may be some FS that hold continuing value, like LEs and also Andrew Lang and some other fairy-tale books, but even there I wonder how much market there is once the shrink-wrap has been broken.
Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking FS. But if it's an investment you're looking for, you'd be better off putting your money into bank CDs.
Oh, and as far as a rare book, what I am saving my money for is a 6th edition (1828) of the two volumes of Bewick's History of British Birds, which a couple different AbeBook sellers are both offering in quite good condition for $750. Since they're both up in the Berkshires (Massachusetts), I could make arrangements to drive up from Philadelphia, inspect my purchase in advance, and pay on-the-spot in cash. But I'd never spend that kind of money, or anywhere near it, for anything in FS.
(It was volume two of Bewick, Water Birds, that the ten-year-old Jane Eyre was reading hiding behind the curtain on the windowseat in her Aunt Reed's house when her older cousin, John Reed, came into the room and started harassing her.)
And I might add that there are editions and there are editions. For Gibbon's Decline and Fall I've got "Everyman" and would never buy FS, as a general rule I'm particularly careful in buying translations no matter who the publisher might be, and where American literature is concerned I definitely prefer the Library of America.
Don't get me wrong. I've got quite a number of FS myself (including, I think, the complete Elizabeth Gaskell though I'm not sure because I've bought them one-by-one), but every FS I've bought has been on eBay, probably at a price less than the original issue, and certainly without my having had to make the purchase commitment that FS membership requires.
There may be some FS that hold continuing value, like LEs and also Andrew Lang and some other fairy-tale books, but even there I wonder how much market there is once the shrink-wrap has been broken.
Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking FS. But if it's an investment you're looking for, you'd be better off putting your money into bank CDs.
Oh, and as far as a rare book, what I am saving my money for is a 6th edition (1828) of the two volumes of Bewick's History of British Birds, which a couple different AbeBook sellers are both offering in quite good condition for $750. Since they're both up in the Berkshires (Massachusetts), I could make arrangements to drive up from Philadelphia, inspect my purchase in advance, and pay on-the-spot in cash. But I'd never spend that kind of money, or anywhere near it, for anything in FS.
(It was volume two of Bewick, Water Birds, that the ten-year-old Jane Eyre was reading hiding behind the curtain on the windowseat in her Aunt Reed's house when her older cousin, John Reed, came into the room and started harassing her.)
And I might add that there are editions and there are editions. For Gibbon's Decline and Fall I've got "Everyman" and would never buy FS, as a general rule I'm particularly careful in buying translations no matter who the publisher might be, and where American literature is concerned I definitely prefer the Library of America.
4Django6924
In the used book market, scarcity is everything. Most Heritage Press books--which are of very high quality (at least the pre-1980 books) likewise do not bring substantial prices. The exceptions are those Heritage books which had very limited editions--the first 10 issues, which were sometimes signed by the artist, and pre-eminent among Heritage Press books, Arthur Szyk's Ink and Blood, a limited edition signed by Szyk.
The parent of the Heritage Press, the LEC, was in its heyday the peer of any of the great fine presses--The Golden Cockerel Press, the Grabhorn Press, etc.,--but most of the LEC's do not bring the kind of prices that one would expect, except for those which were signed by a famous artist or author--the Robert Frost "Complete Poems" signed by Frost, the Lysistrata signed by Picasso, and most famous and valuable of all, the LEC Ulysses signed by Joyce and also by Matisse, the illustrator. While these sell in the thousands when on the market, other LECs, equally fine (and some of them actually better illustrated than the Ulysses), bring less than what they sold for originally--when prices are adjusted for inflation.
In fact, used books are not the kind of investment that is likely to appreciate in value--except for the very few that have some unusual secondary merit apart from their intrinsic value as a beautifully made book, or are artistic and very scarce, like the books created by Sangorski & Sutcliffe and others of their ilk (but even then, they are extremely expensive to begin with, and I wonder if their appreciation outpaces inflation?)
As a money-making investment, books are not so great; it's what they add to your life that makes them valuable, and pace CurrerBell, I don't think they are vastly over-priced, considering the amount of enjoyment I get in owning them. How can you put a price on the effect of reading Robinson Crusoe and The Odyssey when you are 10 years old and falling under the spell of the N.C. Wyeth illustrations for those books, and becoming a dedicated reader because of them? I don't think the Folio Society makes a huge profit on what they do; I think those of us who enjoy owning them--even those who buy them secondhand--are the ones who profit.
The parent of the Heritage Press, the LEC, was in its heyday the peer of any of the great fine presses--The Golden Cockerel Press, the Grabhorn Press, etc.,--but most of the LEC's do not bring the kind of prices that one would expect, except for those which were signed by a famous artist or author--the Robert Frost "Complete Poems" signed by Frost, the Lysistrata signed by Picasso, and most famous and valuable of all, the LEC Ulysses signed by Joyce and also by Matisse, the illustrator. While these sell in the thousands when on the market, other LECs, equally fine (and some of them actually better illustrated than the Ulysses), bring less than what they sold for originally--when prices are adjusted for inflation.
In fact, used books are not the kind of investment that is likely to appreciate in value--except for the very few that have some unusual secondary merit apart from their intrinsic value as a beautifully made book, or are artistic and very scarce, like the books created by Sangorski & Sutcliffe and others of their ilk (but even then, they are extremely expensive to begin with, and I wonder if their appreciation outpaces inflation?)
As a money-making investment, books are not so great; it's what they add to your life that makes them valuable, and pace CurrerBell, I don't think they are vastly over-priced, considering the amount of enjoyment I get in owning them. How can you put a price on the effect of reading Robinson Crusoe and The Odyssey when you are 10 years old and falling under the spell of the N.C. Wyeth illustrations for those books, and becoming a dedicated reader because of them? I don't think the Folio Society makes a huge profit on what they do; I think those of us who enjoy owning them--even those who buy them secondhand--are the ones who profit.
5ironjaw
I agree with the general consensus here. I do not buy FS as a collector hoping they would appreciate, but I buy them because they are beautiful editions in hardback with archival acid free paper and slipcases. I have spent a lot of money on mass market trade paperbacks from Penguin only to find them creased, brown and illegible.
I believe if your a collector whether be it signed first editions or the real gems from fine press, you do not see FS nor Easton Press in that field (which they are not trying to be either)
As Pepe said I am reader rather than a collector. I do collect though and buy occasionally FS LE like Moby Dick LE because I believe they are a work of art and also I like to support the FS - they are doing a great job and their really is no other society like them out there which is still affordable even with sale periods. I agree with Django. Used books should not be seen as an investment that is likely to appreciate - 99% of the time you won't sell your collection anyway well your heirs might. Books are personal for enjoyment and appreciating your intellect.
If your a collector you will not start or look at FS anyway so the idea is a bit odd
BTW Django: where can I get a full list of Heritage press publication?
I believe if your a collector whether be it signed first editions or the real gems from fine press, you do not see FS nor Easton Press in that field (which they are not trying to be either)
As Pepe said I am reader rather than a collector. I do collect though and buy occasionally FS LE like Moby Dick LE because I believe they are a work of art and also I like to support the FS - they are doing a great job and their really is no other society like them out there which is still affordable even with sale periods. I agree with Django. Used books should not be seen as an investment that is likely to appreciate - 99% of the time you won't sell your collection anyway well your heirs might. Books are personal for enjoyment and appreciating your intellect.
If your a collector you will not start or look at FS anyway so the idea is a bit odd
BTW Django: where can I get a full list of Heritage press publication?
6HuxleyTheCat
I have difficulty understanding why first editions have any particular value; it seems entirely spurious to me. A couple of years ago I sold a small batch of Terry Pratchett novels on eBay - they went for several hundred pounds within twenty minutes of my listing them. The buyer was very satisfied and I laughed all the way to the bank! To be honest they were junk, the paper was terrible, the bindings were glued, the printing was awful and they were full of typos; however, they were that seemingly magic thing of "first editions". Whatever floats your boat I guess, but I just don't get it at all.
"Do any of you collect with the idea of appreciation?" - Um, no.
"Do any of you collect with the idea of appreciation?" - Um, no.
7kiwidoc
Ok - thanks for the imput. It seems it is a silly question!
(but I notice on ebay that the cost of some book editions are way above cost, while folios can be had for a fraction of the initial cost.)
I agree wrt to the first editions of poor quality works. I am not a book collector for any other reason than I like to read, but it strikes me as odd to buy a folio book for $80 and then see the exact same book online at $10 - even when the book is still produced by Folio.
(but I notice on ebay that the cost of some book editions are way above cost, while folios can be had for a fraction of the initial cost.)
I agree wrt to the first editions of poor quality works. I am not a book collector for any other reason than I like to read, but it strikes me as odd to buy a folio book for $80 and then see the exact same book online at $10 - even when the book is still produced by Folio.
8HuxleyTheCat
>7 kiwidoc: I think it's a perfectly valid question. Undoubtedly there are occasional Folio vols which hold their value very well, East of the Sun, West of the Moon and Between the Woods and the Water are two which immediately come to mind. But when one considers that the FS has a membership in the region of 140,000 and publishes books in multiple 10s of 1000s, and also considering that those books are very well made and are sold to people who will generally take good care of them, it is not too surprising that there are plenty of good copies of most titles available in the secondhand market.
I really enjoy Terry Pratchett btw and didn't mean to imply that the content was poor quality, just the physical books.
I really enjoy Terry Pratchett btw and didn't mean to imply that the content was poor quality, just the physical books.
9BorisG
Regarding appreciation, I've noticed that things are quite different on the Fantasy / Science-Fiction front.
Most fine presses in those fields are small(er) ones, and most of their limited editions have a far smaller limitation than those of FS. Subterranean Press, probably the largest fine press in the field, limits its signed editions to no more than 500, with many being done in smaller runs of 200. They also offer Lettered editions (26 copies), which have the same text block but are bound differently and come with a traycase (and are astronomically priced - up to 5 times the limited edition price).
But from reading forums I know that there are quite a few people who invest large amounts of money in those Lettered editions, precisely because of their future price rise - preordering 4 or 5 copies at times. And rise indeed they do - searches on abebooks show that nearly everything presses like Subterranean print appreciates really well, including unsigned trade hardcovers (which are no better in quality than the average FS book).
I find it somewhat strange, but also understandable - it's for a different audience, they're dealing mostly with popular, living authors, they have much smaller runs - and the overall feel of the market is somehow much more dynamic and vibrant.
Sorry for the meandering post. :) (and on another note, books like the LE WITW appreciate *really* well.)
Most fine presses in those fields are small(er) ones, and most of their limited editions have a far smaller limitation than those of FS. Subterranean Press, probably the largest fine press in the field, limits its signed editions to no more than 500, with many being done in smaller runs of 200. They also offer Lettered editions (26 copies), which have the same text block but are bound differently and come with a traycase (and are astronomically priced - up to 5 times the limited edition price).
But from reading forums I know that there are quite a few people who invest large amounts of money in those Lettered editions, precisely because of their future price rise - preordering 4 or 5 copies at times. And rise indeed they do - searches on abebooks show that nearly everything presses like Subterranean print appreciates really well, including unsigned trade hardcovers (which are no better in quality than the average FS book).
I find it somewhat strange, but also understandable - it's for a different audience, they're dealing mostly with popular, living authors, they have much smaller runs - and the overall feel of the market is somehow much more dynamic and vibrant.
Sorry for the meandering post. :) (and on another note, books like the LE WITW appreciate *really* well.)
10astropi
9: thanks for the heads-up to Subterranean Press. I never heard of them, but it's always nice to see a publisher of fine books! That being said, I'm not certain that Lettered editions are worth the huge prices. That is to say, to an individual who really wants the book, certainly the large sum is worth it. However, do they really appreciate in value? Just because copies on abebooks are listed at enormous prices does not mean anyone is actually purchasing them.
At any rate, another good question is why are signed books worth so much more than unsigned books? Same book, same quality, and yet just an added signature page and the price goes way up! Strange, isn't it? :)
cheers,
-astropi
11lilithcat
> 4
like the books created by Sangorski & Sutcliffe
Now if only someone could retrieve the Great Omar from its watery grave! That would be worth a good deal.
like the books created by Sangorski & Sutcliffe
Now if only someone could retrieve the Great Omar from its watery grave! That would be worth a good deal.
12Django6924
>11 lilithcat:
Indubitably, but probably not worth the cost of the salvage job! (Besides, I think someone here pointed out that S & S recreated that for a fraction of the cost--probably not more than $100,000.00
>5 ironjaw:
ironjaw, the best reference I know is the following by Michael Bussacco:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Heritage-Press-Catalog-Checklist-Ultimate-/350302971739?...
>8 HuxleyTheCat:
Huxley, I suspect the Folio Society's LE of Young's Night Thoughts will appreciate in value (at least it seems to be selling for more than the cost of a new one when it comes on the book market), but I'm not sure why. It is a magnificent book, and a fairly small limitation--at least by FS standards--but there is no signature, it wasn't produced by any laborious and painstaking method method of reproduction--as was the case in many LEC volumes which used lithographed reproductions of the originals, hand-colored by stencil. The only reason I can think of for its possible appreciation is the same reason I bought it--after agonizing several years since I received the FS Prospectus announcing it: it is like opium to the addict or whiskey to the alcoholic--once it gets in your blood, you HAVE to have it. Few books have affected me that way (neither the Rockwell Kent Moby Dick nor the LE Wind in the Willows, both books potential appreciators, proved irresistible, but I had to have Night Thoughts)
Indubitably, but probably not worth the cost of the salvage job! (Besides, I think someone here pointed out that S & S recreated that for a fraction of the cost--probably not more than $100,000.00
>5 ironjaw:
ironjaw, the best reference I know is the following by Michael Bussacco:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Heritage-Press-Catalog-Checklist-Ultimate-/350302971739?...
>8 HuxleyTheCat:
Huxley, I suspect the Folio Society's LE of Young's Night Thoughts will appreciate in value (at least it seems to be selling for more than the cost of a new one when it comes on the book market), but I'm not sure why. It is a magnificent book, and a fairly small limitation--at least by FS standards--but there is no signature, it wasn't produced by any laborious and painstaking method method of reproduction--as was the case in many LEC volumes which used lithographed reproductions of the originals, hand-colored by stencil. The only reason I can think of for its possible appreciation is the same reason I bought it--after agonizing several years since I received the FS Prospectus announcing it: it is like opium to the addict or whiskey to the alcoholic--once it gets in your blood, you HAVE to have it. Few books have affected me that way (neither the Rockwell Kent Moby Dick nor the LE Wind in the Willows, both books potential appreciators, proved irresistible, but I had to have Night Thoughts)
13olepuppy
> 9 I don't know how the appreciation is determined, but I have seen several fine press lettered edition offerings that were very interesting because they had upgraded bindings(e.g. full/quarter leather), were boxed instead of slipcased, came with ephemeral items and often with complete extra sets of illustrations, great for framing and display. Their initial value could be over a grand more than the lesser volume.
I think Folio has lettered copies of their limited editions, not for sale but as presentation books.
I received my Arion Press copy of Moby Dick yesterday-lovely book, the University of California trade hardback, not the one I can't afford. When I spoke with the young lady at Arion, she told me that there was one copy of the original limited edition available, was I interested, I shuddered and said maybe, how much, and she replied,"$9000". Original price was $1000 almost 30 years ago and I really don't know how the appreciation value was
measured, I looked viaLibri and didn't see any offered to compare.
I think Folio has lettered copies of their limited editions, not for sale but as presentation books.
I received my Arion Press copy of Moby Dick yesterday-lovely book, the University of California trade hardback, not the one I can't afford. When I spoke with the young lady at Arion, she told me that there was one copy of the original limited edition available, was I interested, I shuddered and said maybe, how much, and she replied,"$9000". Original price was $1000 almost 30 years ago and I really don't know how the appreciation value was
measured, I looked viaLibri and didn't see any offered to compare.
14haniwitch
#12
I know just what you mean about Night Thoughts. I did exactly the same thing you did--agonized for years about whether to buy it or not. What finally pushed me over the edge was that it seemed to be selling out rather rapidly (the website says there are only 33 left now) and that the price was going up. Being a Blake fan I just couldn't resist any longer. And while none of the reasons for appreciating that you mention apply, it is a unique work in that it is the only time the book has been published in its entirety. Other than Night Thoughts I think the only FS Limited Edition I'm interested in is Metamorphoses which I will probably use next year as my renewal requirement (although the pictures for Moby Dick on the website do tempt me, I can still resist it).
I know just what you mean about Night Thoughts. I did exactly the same thing you did--agonized for years about whether to buy it or not. What finally pushed me over the edge was that it seemed to be selling out rather rapidly (the website says there are only 33 left now) and that the price was going up. Being a Blake fan I just couldn't resist any longer. And while none of the reasons for appreciating that you mention apply, it is a unique work in that it is the only time the book has been published in its entirety. Other than Night Thoughts I think the only FS Limited Edition I'm interested in is Metamorphoses which I will probably use next year as my renewal requirement (although the pictures for Moby Dick on the website do tempt me, I can still resist it).
15kiwidoc
Folio does have lettered copies of their LE, olepuppy, because I bought a Shakespeare letterpress on the internet and it was a lettered copy. I wondered how it came to be in the market and what it meant!
(You can find Letterpress Shakespeare LEs on the internet for much reduced prices over the Folio new price - less than half or more in some cases).
(You can find Letterpress Shakespeare LEs on the internet for much reduced prices over the Folio new price - less than half or more in some cases).
16olepuppy
Thanks for verifying, kiwidoc, I thought I saw 2-3 LE Shakespeare's at Ardis last year that were lettered and wasn't sure(and I didn't realize Sh. could be gotten so low). And in Folio 60, many of the earlier LE's are said to have 20-25 lettered copies not for sale.
.
.
17jveezer
I believe that many presses use lettered editions as complimentary copies to their employees or to other presses and people in the business. If, like it seems for FS limited editions and the Arion Press as far as I can tell, there is no difference between the numbered and lettered editions then there is probably no effect on the "value" of the book. In fact, it just increases the edition size by 26'ish, which might have a negative effect on "value".
Other presses, Barbarian Press and Subterranean Press come to mind, issue their lettered limited editions in a different "state" than their numbered limited editions. The binding may be different, the housing might be a clamshell box instead of a slipcase, additional prints and ephemera might be included, etc. In which case I would assume the lettered editions would be much more scarce than the numbered editions with a consequent effect on value.
All that being said, I don't invest in books, I'm a reader that loves being surrounded by books I love in nice editions. (OK, I actually bought one book as an investment...) I usually don't buy anything I don't want to read. I like the perks of limited editions: having extra prints, having limited bindings, numbered/lettered, knowing there are only 999 other books like mine out there. But mostly it just makes me thankful that I have it and feel like a lucky reader to be able to read a book in that state, not because I want my heirs to make a killing on them. Truth is, I just want my books to end up with my kids or anyone else that will "ah" when they pull it off the shelf and feel the binding and the paper, see the text and the illustrations, and hopefully enjoy the content!
Other presses, Barbarian Press and Subterranean Press come to mind, issue their lettered limited editions in a different "state" than their numbered limited editions. The binding may be different, the housing might be a clamshell box instead of a slipcase, additional prints and ephemera might be included, etc. In which case I would assume the lettered editions would be much more scarce than the numbered editions with a consequent effect on value.
All that being said, I don't invest in books, I'm a reader that loves being surrounded by books I love in nice editions. (OK, I actually bought one book as an investment...) I usually don't buy anything I don't want to read. I like the perks of limited editions: having extra prints, having limited bindings, numbered/lettered, knowing there are only 999 other books like mine out there. But mostly it just makes me thankful that I have it and feel like a lucky reader to be able to read a book in that state, not because I want my heirs to make a killing on them. Truth is, I just want my books to end up with my kids or anyone else that will "ah" when they pull it off the shelf and feel the binding and the paper, see the text and the illustrations, and hopefully enjoy the content!
18HuxleyTheCat
>12 Django6924: If the LE Wind in the Willows was still available then I would feel the same i.e. 'have to have it'. Sadly (for me) when it was available I hadn't made that initial leap required to spend three figures on a book. Having done it once, it is now rather too easy.
19BorisG
>10 astropi:
Astropi, you are right that abebook prices are not a direct sign, but on the other hand, they do give a reference point - when searching for a common FS book, I will get dozens of results, ranging from single dollars to some lunatic charging $900 for a mint (!) copy (!!) of the Persians (!!!). When searching for East of the Sun, west of the Moon, which, as Huxley noted, is one of the FS books that hold their value well, I (at the moment) am getting 9 results, ranging from $95 to $345. Yes, it could be that none would buy those, but - if someone wants one, that's the supply he has to choose from, on this site at least.
I think there might be a correlation between the number of copies of a specific book which available for sale and the prices - the scarce books fetch higher prices. (Which could explain the lack of appreciation of common FS books - there are loads of them on the secondary market.)
And here's an example of how a lettered edition looks: http://www.neilgaimanbibliography.com/books/americangods/americangods-hillhouse-... (It's hard to see on this photo, but the book is housed in a wooden box (with a sliding tray inside, made to fit the book and the accompanying softcover reading copy), and that black door is made of marble. The original price was $900 - the limited edition costing $200 (the book itself being completely identical between the two) - and I've never seen a copy being offered on the secondary market. The limited edition goes for $300 and upwards.)
Astropi, you are right that abebook prices are not a direct sign, but on the other hand, they do give a reference point - when searching for a common FS book, I will get dozens of results, ranging from single dollars to some lunatic charging $900 for a mint (!) copy (!!) of the Persians (!!!). When searching for East of the Sun, west of the Moon, which, as Huxley noted, is one of the FS books that hold their value well, I (at the moment) am getting 9 results, ranging from $95 to $345. Yes, it could be that none would buy those, but - if someone wants one, that's the supply he has to choose from, on this site at least.
I think there might be a correlation between the number of copies of a specific book which available for sale and the prices - the scarce books fetch higher prices. (Which could explain the lack of appreciation of common FS books - there are loads of them on the secondary market.)
And here's an example of how a lettered edition looks: http://www.neilgaimanbibliography.com/books/americangods/americangods-hillhouse-... (It's hard to see on this photo, but the book is housed in a wooden box (with a sliding tray inside, made to fit the book and the accompanying softcover reading copy), and that black door is made of marble. The original price was $900 - the limited edition costing $200 (the book itself being completely identical between the two) - and I've never seen a copy being offered on the secondary market. The limited edition goes for $300 and upwards.)
20celtic
I thought the 'affordability' of the vast majority of Folio books, enabling most people to 'invest' in the personal enjoyment of owning well designed and manufactured books was one of the cornerstones of The Folio Society.
Why would anyone care about the future value and why would anyone want to see Folio Society books become too expensive for the majority of people?
Limited editions aside, the most important thing about the Folio Society is what it brings in quality and enjoyment to the greatest number of people.
I am sure there are some people who buy books (and many other things) purely as an investment. I would be surprised if A) they ever appreciate or read them and B) are members of this forum or the Society.
Long may Folio Society books remain affordable!
Why would anyone care about the future value and why would anyone want to see Folio Society books become too expensive for the majority of people?
Limited editions aside, the most important thing about the Folio Society is what it brings in quality and enjoyment to the greatest number of people.
I am sure there are some people who buy books (and many other things) purely as an investment. I would be surprised if A) they ever appreciate or read them and B) are members of this forum or the Society.
Long may Folio Society books remain affordable!
21olepuppy
I recently bought a BCC edition about Valenti Angelo, and in speaking with the delightful elderly lady, a former used bookstore owner, who was selling the book I mentioned that I had begun reading and collecting fine press books because of my initial reading and collecting of Folio Society books, and she replied in a tone of awe,"They are works of art". Her words reminded me of my 2nd or 3rd year as a member when I bought every prospectus new book published by Folio that year, regardless of the topic, because of the overall beauty of the new editions. As I love to read almost anything the contents were bound to interest me(while of course some selections made me ecstatic!) all the while enjoying the fresh smell of good paper, widely varied, non-boring and attractive bindings, and delightful illustrations, many of which were the wood cuts or wood engravings that I truly love and had not seen much of until then. And if, over time, some books don't get read by me then later they will be read by someone else, 'tis one of the beauties of book reading and collecting that the ideas and artistry get passed along, to family or friends or schools or libraries or to some poor fool somewhere whose life might be enhanced by the ideas and beauty of a particular volume...or not over time, I keep giving my copies of Possession (non-Folio) away.
Sometimes I've wished I hadn't spent a thou on many 'regular' fine press books and saved for the lettered edition of an Old Stile Press or Whittington Press volume which has the full set of wood cuts or engravings from the block, especially of landscapes, like Ebble Valley, then the art could be in the book and on the wall too. But it is as difficult for a book lover to stop or slow book-buying as it is easy for the aficionado to spend more and larger sums on books-sounds like addiction!
I think it's fine that Folio editions maintain a higher value than trade editions, they should because they have been made, most times, with better materials and produced with originality. That some increase in value is fine too and is to be expected of a well-made, possibly more scarce edition whose production transcends the original, like East of the Sun, West of the Moon with its' additional outstanding illustrations. Indeed, if one has spent a thou on 20 books to read and enjoy however one wishes and also wants them to be worth monetarily the same or more in ten or twenty years and not be a buck at a yard sale, then that is fine too.
Of course, the book for a buck might be for the poor fool, so hey, who needs to be dogmatic about the purpose of their book collection-that is, library.
Sometimes I've wished I hadn't spent a thou on many 'regular' fine press books and saved for the lettered edition of an Old Stile Press or Whittington Press volume which has the full set of wood cuts or engravings from the block, especially of landscapes, like Ebble Valley, then the art could be in the book and on the wall too. But it is as difficult for a book lover to stop or slow book-buying as it is easy for the aficionado to spend more and larger sums on books-sounds like addiction!
I think it's fine that Folio editions maintain a higher value than trade editions, they should because they have been made, most times, with better materials and produced with originality. That some increase in value is fine too and is to be expected of a well-made, possibly more scarce edition whose production transcends the original, like East of the Sun, West of the Moon with its' additional outstanding illustrations. Indeed, if one has spent a thou on 20 books to read and enjoy however one wishes and also wants them to be worth monetarily the same or more in ten or twenty years and not be a buck at a yard sale, then that is fine too.
Of course, the book for a buck might be for the poor fool, so hey, who needs to be dogmatic about the purpose of their book collection-that is, library.
22ian_curtin
Echoing the "had to have it" sentiments above, I bought the Ulysses LE a couple of years ago, for what I believe was close to the original FS price. I sometimes check on Abe and the few copies that show up are much more costly now, although it's not a totally reliable guide to value.
I can't imagine ever selling the book (or the Moby Dick LE) but I guess it's a kind of nice to know that it's a valuable & sought-after book.
Where appreciation has worked against me is in the case of the War & Peace LE...the only copies on Abe are £805 and £1250!! Am baffled as to why this particular edition has gone so mad price-wise.
I can't imagine ever selling the book (or the Moby Dick LE) but I guess it's a kind of nice to know that it's a valuable & sought-after book.
Where appreciation has worked against me is in the case of the War & Peace LE...the only copies on Abe are £805 and £1250!! Am baffled as to why this particular edition has gone so mad price-wise.
23BorisG
Ian, I wouldn't take those very high prices on abebooks as a reliable indication. Following some photos posted by Huxley of the LE Don Quixote, I hastily started searching for a copy, and bought one in a mint condition for €50 + shipping from a German bookseller (and on the same list there were copies for €300 and more).
War and Peace usually goes for no more than a hundred-and-something quid on ebay.co.uk (and I remember one copy selling for less than ninety).
War and Peace usually goes for no more than a hundred-and-something quid on ebay.co.uk (and I remember one copy selling for less than ninety).
24chase.donaldson
Here is one for 625 US on ebay. Didn't sell at 700 and they dropped the price, so maybe if it doesn't sell at this price, you could get em down. I'm amazed at how people on ebay are willing to wheel and deal sometimes.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Folio-Society-War-and-Peace-Limited-Edition-Goatskin-/140404...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Folio-Society-War-and-Peace-Limited-Edition-Goatskin-/140404...
25olepuppy
>22 ian_curtin: I remember checking Abe for the 1st time a coupla years ago and being shocked and thrilled to see only one Don Quixote available at $1800, my book was worth big bucks and I never expected that! But as I've checked since then more have become available at much lower prices, close to 2-3x original, and ebay provides more opportunities for a real steal.
General question, does it seem that folio prices are higher on ebay than ebayuk? I think the newer LE prices would have to be higher to reflect the higher initial purchase price for USA than UK, making appreciation values differ as to location.
General question, does it seem that folio prices are higher on ebay than ebayuk? I think the newer LE prices would have to be higher to reflect the higher initial purchase price for USA than UK, making appreciation values differ as to location.
26chase.donaldson
I have found they fetch higher prices in the US, far higher in fact.
27ian_curtin
>23 BorisG:-26
Thanks for the comments re W&P LE. I've an unreasonable aversion to buying from eBay which I guess I should get over as it's another potential source - and, from what you all say, a good place to try and negotiate. I find if you contact the sellers on Abe directly they're usually happy to do some kind of deal eg cover postage.
Thanks for the comments re W&P LE. I've an unreasonable aversion to buying from eBay which I guess I should get over as it's another potential source - and, from what you all say, a good place to try and negotiate. I find if you contact the sellers on Abe directly they're usually happy to do some kind of deal eg cover postage.
28BorisG
>27 ian_curtin:
Really! That's great to know. I've never thought of this before; will give it a try next time.
By the way, I think the reason I've got Don Quixote so cheaply was that the entire description was in German (so if one does not know German, one could think it was the standard edition - the price would fit that as well. I'm not sure why they were selling it so cheaply in the first place).
Really! That's great to know. I've never thought of this before; will give it a try next time.
By the way, I think the reason I've got Don Quixote so cheaply was that the entire description was in German (so if one does not know German, one could think it was the standard edition - the price would fit that as well. I'm not sure why they were selling it so cheaply in the first place).
30BorisG
Ironjaw,
No, it was on abebooks.com, but it was a bookseller from Berlin, and the entire 'Book Description' section was in German.
ebay.de has no FS books at all - they only show results from the UK and the US.
No, it was on abebooks.com, but it was a bookseller from Berlin, and the entire 'Book Description' section was in German.
ebay.de has no FS books at all - they only show results from the UK and the US.
31chase.donaldson
Yikes. That War and Peace LE just went for 550 on ebay a couple of days ago.
33ian_curtin
>31 chase.donaldson: That's interesting. I had a conversation with the UK bookseller who is quoting £1250 for W&P and pointed out the eBay item as a basis for comparison. I got the impression they were comparing their LE with facsimiles for pricing which isn't realistic. The fact that it went for less again helps me make my case!
$550 (£380) is still way more then I would consider paying though.
$550 (£380) is still way more then I would consider paying though.
34appaloosaman
It's more than double what it originally sold for in the UK - which seems to rather undermine the title of this thread. At least some FS titles do gain in value - and after quite a short period of time too.
35RMMee
But then a limited edition is not the same as a standard edition - you would expect the normal rules not to apply.
36olepuppy
Does anyone know the original price, UK and USA, for the cream leather works of Chaucer from 2002? Last year I saw prices of 4-5G, I think Ardis had one last month or so for 2G.
