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1girlfromshangrila
I just read this article, and I'm out of myself with rage.
That link leads to an article by Mr. Wesley Scroggins, published in The News-leader from Springfield, in which he misrepresents YA books in the worst possible manners, twisting their purpose and meaning, and then passes on to suggest that they be banned from schools.
The part that angers me the most is how the book Speak is presented. I am certain that a good deal of the LT members who frequent this board have read and enjoyed this book. I like it very much myself.
Well, this Mr. Scroggins refers to Speak as a pornographic, immoral and unchristian book. He says it glorifies teen sex. He says the main character is some wicked creature that makes a bad role model for kids. He points to some sarchastic comments in the book, takes them out of context, and makes it sound as if the author of making some horrible statements that would be beyond outrageous if they were true. Not only does this article completely miss the point of that wonderful, well-written book, but he purposefully twists its meaning and make it sound as the complete opposite of what it is. And then it asks for the community to pick up stones and light their torches to correct this 'problem', so to speak.
In my opinion, either this man is obtuse beyond redemption, or he will be getting side benefits by having a perfectly healthy, beautiful and helpful book banned from schools.
What do you think of this? Am I overreacting? Is this man right?
That link leads to an article by Mr. Wesley Scroggins, published in The News-leader from Springfield, in which he misrepresents YA books in the worst possible manners, twisting their purpose and meaning, and then passes on to suggest that they be banned from schools.
The part that angers me the most is how the book Speak is presented. I am certain that a good deal of the LT members who frequent this board have read and enjoyed this book. I like it very much myself.
Well, this Mr. Scroggins refers to Speak as a pornographic, immoral and unchristian book. He says it glorifies teen sex. He says the main character is some wicked creature that makes a bad role model for kids. He points to some sarchastic comments in the book, takes them out of context, and makes it sound as if the author of making some horrible statements that would be beyond outrageous if they were true. Not only does this article completely miss the point of that wonderful, well-written book, but he purposefully twists its meaning and make it sound as the complete opposite of what it is. And then it asks for the community to pick up stones and light their torches to correct this 'problem', so to speak.
In my opinion, either this man is obtuse beyond redemption, or he will be getting side benefits by having a perfectly healthy, beautiful and helpful book banned from schools.
What do you think of this? Am I overreacting? Is this man right?
2amysisson
The man is 100% absolutely positively wrong. The book is about rape, for heaven's sake! That hardly glorifies teen sex! I have to imagine the man has not actually read the book. If he has, he's an idiot for not understanding it. And regardless, books should not be banned!!!!!!!
3d_perlo
From reading the article, it is clear that the man is a fanatic. I would like to see a well thought out rebuttal article posted in the same paper by teachers on why they teach the materials they do. I am deeply concerned that Slaughterhouse five has already been removed.
4SimonW11
slaughterhouse five banned Books that reccomend you speak out against rapists vilified.
No You do not overreact.
No You do not overreact.
5girlfromshangrila
Thank you! I'm still quite angry over this. I can't believe anyone would want to ban a book that has been so helpful to so many people on so many levels, not to mention how well-written it is.
I wish I could do something, anything, to stop this book from being banned, but as I'm not a US American, all I can do is sit here and let my anger simmer. :-(
Laurie Halse Anderson wrote about it on her blog, presenting her posture in face of the article, and letting us know what is being done to help, for those who can and wish to participate. Here's her post: LHA's blog.
Some of the responses of her readers are touching. Why doesn't this Scroggins person take a look over there, and realize what he's trying to do, huh?
I wish I could do something, anything, to stop this book from being banned, but as I'm not a US American, all I can do is sit here and let my anger simmer. :-(
Laurie Halse Anderson wrote about it on her blog, presenting her posture in face of the article, and letting us know what is being done to help, for those who can and wish to participate. Here's her post: LHA's blog.
Some of the responses of her readers are touching. Why doesn't this Scroggins person take a look over there, and realize what he's trying to do, huh?
6DeusExLibrus
It should be noted that it is a rare thing for a person who tries to ban a book to have read the book. It seems they usually hear about how "horrible" or "evil" it is, and don't bother with independent thought.
7susiesharp
If you are on twitter look up #SpeakLoudly or search the blogs for the same title.
There has been a huge outpouring of support from the blogging & twitter community and I hope that everyone here on LT will also speak out and Speak Loudly against censorship and book banning!
I think it says more about him that he thinks rape is porn than about the people who read the books. This book and the others he mentioned are very important and we as citizens need to make sure no book is shut up because of a narrow mind like this man.
Speak Loudly!
There has been a huge outpouring of support from the blogging & twitter community and I hope that everyone here on LT will also speak out and Speak Loudly against censorship and book banning!
I think it says more about him that he thinks rape is porn than about the people who read the books. This book and the others he mentioned are very important and we as citizens need to make sure no book is shut up because of a narrow mind like this man.
Speak Loudly!
8Kira
On the other hand, I haven't read Speak but the phrase "immoral and unchristian book" reads like a good endorsement to me ;)
9cammykitty
Clearly he didn't read the book. Rape isn't teen sex. But fortunately, we can laugh this off. I recommended Speak to a girl I work with in middle school last year, and they've been passing it around. This among kids that have trouble with reading. Speak is stronger than Mr. Wesley Scroggins, and nothing sells books likes banning them.
10cammykitty
And as a P.S. Wait until he notices Going Bovine, this year's Printz award. Gays, sex, swear words both in English and Spanish, drugs, and OMG drag queens! If Mr. Scroggins can open up a book he's planning on banning, he'll pass away before the second page!
11kiwiflowa
I read Speak a few years ago, as an adult not a teen. Reading his description of the book - it wasn't NOT the book I read.
The main message I got out of it, that I can remember, is don't judge other people. That girl was quiet, withdrawn and weird because something awful had happened to her. Where was that in his description!?
The main message I got out of it, that I can remember, is don't judge other people. That girl was quiet, withdrawn and weird because something awful had happened to her. Where was that in his description!?
12girlfromshangrila
>8 Kira:: LOL! Read it, it's excellent! Laurie Halse Anderson is a talented writer, and Speak deals with some topics that everybody should hear about.
>9 cammykitty:: That's a good point! Although my worry is that, if this book is taken out of schools, it could never reach a good deal of readers who may, in all likelihood, greatly benefit from it.
>10 cammykitty:: Haven't read that book yet, but sounds like the kind of thing that might trigger Mr. Scroggins' anger. (Which, by the way, is NOT the type of book Speak is at all) Sure you want to pass it on to him? ;-)
>11 kiwiflowa:: Exactly! I also read Speak as an adult and have been passing it around to every English speaking youngster I know.
There are so many good points one can extract from this book! A very interesting element in it is being privy to the workings of an outcast's mind. Melinda is very lonely, and as such, she has the capacity of taking in the many absurdities of High School and making witty remarks on them. When reading this book, I felt like someone, *anyone*, actually understood what it feels like to be left out, mistreated, bullied by everybody else.
I have heard and read about many people whose lifes have changed for the better because of this book. Just dig a little, out there: you'll find an astounding number of abuse victims who found solace in this book, who found their own voices thanks to it, who found the strenght to stand up on their own legs because of it! Taking this book out of schools is a big mistake. Many young people who may really need to read it might never even hear of it unless it's there. Please don't let this bigotted, narrow-minded individual thus harm our children. Please.
>9 cammykitty:: That's a good point! Although my worry is that, if this book is taken out of schools, it could never reach a good deal of readers who may, in all likelihood, greatly benefit from it.
>10 cammykitty:: Haven't read that book yet, but sounds like the kind of thing that might trigger Mr. Scroggins' anger. (Which, by the way, is NOT the type of book Speak is at all) Sure you want to pass it on to him? ;-)
>11 kiwiflowa:: Exactly! I also read Speak as an adult and have been passing it around to every English speaking youngster I know.
There are so many good points one can extract from this book! A very interesting element in it is being privy to the workings of an outcast's mind. Melinda is very lonely, and as such, she has the capacity of taking in the many absurdities of High School and making witty remarks on them. When reading this book, I felt like someone, *anyone*, actually understood what it feels like to be left out, mistreated, bullied by everybody else.
I have heard and read about many people whose lifes have changed for the better because of this book. Just dig a little, out there: you'll find an astounding number of abuse victims who found solace in this book, who found their own voices thanks to it, who found the strenght to stand up on their own legs because of it! Taking this book out of schools is a big mistake. Many young people who may really need to read it might never even hear of it unless it's there. Please don't let this bigotted, narrow-minded individual thus harm our children. Please.
13Menshevixen
Yeah, reading that article inspired me to buy three copies of Speak--one for me, one for a friend who has wanted to read it but never got around to it, and one for the library I work in.
What a despicable man Scroggins is.
What a despicable man Scroggins is.
14jnwelch
Thanks for bringing this to our attention, girlfromshangrila. It's hard to believe in 2010 we're still having to deal with book banning. What exactly are Scroggins and his ilk afraid of?
I agree with everything said above about this.
As girlfromshangrila knows, I'm another one who read Speak as an adult, on the recommendation of my then high school age daughter to whom it meant a lot. It's a remarkable book that, besides the compelling story, personalizes the plight of abuse and rape victims in an unforgettable way.
Speak, Slaughter-House Five, and The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, all banned? Unbelievable. All great books, and I've urged my kids to read the last two. God bless Laurie Halse Anderson, and Judy Blume who she mentions in her blog, and the others fighting this censorship, as we all must do.
I agree with everything said above about this.
As girlfromshangrila knows, I'm another one who read Speak as an adult, on the recommendation of my then high school age daughter to whom it meant a lot. It's a remarkable book that, besides the compelling story, personalizes the plight of abuse and rape victims in an unforgettable way.
Speak, Slaughter-House Five, and The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, all banned? Unbelievable. All great books, and I've urged my kids to read the last two. God bless Laurie Halse Anderson, and Judy Blume who she mentions in her blog, and the others fighting this censorship, as we all must do.
15_Zoe_
Am I the only one who keeps thinking that "Scroggins" sounds a lot like "Scrooge"? Maybe some ghosts will come and show him the error of his ways....
16Storeetllr
And his first name sounds like he is, a wascally weasel. (Apologies to all reasonable nonfanatical guys named Wesley, especially Wesley from The Princess Bride.)
17girlfromshangrila
Thank you, thank you all for your replies! Keep 'em coming. ;-)
> 13: That's a great initiative! My local bookstore currently has 6 copies of Speak. I'm buying half of them for some friends, and asking them to spread the word. I'll write to those among my acquaintances who I know have read and enjoyed the book to do the same. Thanks for the idea, Diana.
> 13: That's a great initiative! My local bookstore currently has 6 copies of Speak. I'm buying half of them for some friends, and asking them to spread the word. I'll write to those among my acquaintances who I know have read and enjoyed the book to do the same. Thanks for the idea, Diana.
18girlfromshangrila
>14 jnwelch:: I knew we could count on your helpful, intelligent and articulate comments! Thanks for chiming in, really.
Laurie Halse Anderson is indeed an excellent writer. Many of her books deal with tough topics that are hard to handle, and she does so in a tactful, helpful way. Why anyone would try to take this book away from young people's reach is beyond me. My heart weeps at the thought of it.
I'm trying to collect a list with some of the most remarkable blog posts I've found so far that deal with this topic. As soon as it's ready, I'll post it here for everyone to go through it (and share it, if you are so inclined).
Laurie Halse Anderson is indeed an excellent writer. Many of her books deal with tough topics that are hard to handle, and she does so in a tactful, helpful way. Why anyone would try to take this book away from young people's reach is beyond me. My heart weeps at the thought of it.
I'm trying to collect a list with some of the most remarkable blog posts I've found so far that deal with this topic. As soon as it's ready, I'll post it here for everyone to go through it (and share it, if you are so inclined).
19girlfromshangrila
>15 _Zoe_: & 16: LOL! You both are right! But now I can't stop seeing Mr. Scroggins being chased by literary ghosts to make him see sense. That thought will confort me for a while, thank you very much!
20cammykitty
Can't wait to see the blog list. I've been thinking about what I would write to the school, and am sort of at a loss for words. This is what I want to say:
Dear School Board and School Administrators,
Why would you let someone who hasn't read the books in your curriculum determine what books should be in your curriculum? Do you really believe an ignorant few have spent more thought on your curriculum and students than your own staff? Have faith in your teachers' decisions and back them up.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Haven't been able to think of a good dear abby style name like Musing in Minnesota.
Part of me wants to defend Speak specifically, but one particular book isn't the issue here. I can't think of a succinct way of stating the issue, other than saying it's censorship. Basically, people like Scroggins believe they can control the world by withholding information from the young. They don't realize that withholding information doesn't make our young more moral. It only makes them ignorant, and ignorance makes them weaker. Ignorance leaves them with fewer tools to respond to things that aren't right in their world. Whether we talk about it or not, kids live in a world where abuse exists. Let's give them a space where they can read, think and talk about it so they can be strong against it.
& then there's the issue of someone who feels they have been appointed with the Truth with a capital T about morality, but I'll start foaming at the mouth if I keep talking.
Dear School Board and School Administrators,
Why would you let someone who hasn't read the books in your curriculum determine what books should be in your curriculum? Do you really believe an ignorant few have spent more thought on your curriculum and students than your own staff? Have faith in your teachers' decisions and back them up.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Haven't been able to think of a good dear abby style name like Musing in Minnesota.
Part of me wants to defend Speak specifically, but one particular book isn't the issue here. I can't think of a succinct way of stating the issue, other than saying it's censorship. Basically, people like Scroggins believe they can control the world by withholding information from the young. They don't realize that withholding information doesn't make our young more moral. It only makes them ignorant, and ignorance makes them weaker. Ignorance leaves them with fewer tools to respond to things that aren't right in their world. Whether we talk about it or not, kids live in a world where abuse exists. Let's give them a space where they can read, think and talk about it so they can be strong against it.
& then there's the issue of someone who feels they have been appointed with the Truth with a capital T about morality, but I'll start foaming at the mouth if I keep talking.
21kiwiflowa
What's worse is the mis-information. Instead of just saying: I'm uncomfortable with this book because it has rape in it and I don't want youth reading about this. He completely mis-represents the book on purpose and any credibility he had is lost.
22cammykitty
Kiwiflowa> So true. He's basically trying to do a literary version of character assassination. If "Speak" were a person, we could charge him with slander.
23mimosa.stimulus
There has been a huge response to this on twitter and in the blogosphere by authors and readers, librarians, parents, teachers. His kids are homeschooled, so they don't even attend school in the district which he is trying to deny these books.
This blog post has a list of links to numerous responses to this jerk, and anyone else who posts a response can link theirs to it as well:
http://bookalicio.us/2010/09/is-speak-pornographic/
This blog post has a list of links to numerous responses to this jerk, and anyone else who posts a response can link theirs to it as well:
http://bookalicio.us/2010/09/is-speak-pornographic/
24strandedon8jo
Like many of you above, I also read Speak as an adult and I cannot recomment it highly enough.
In fact, I recently recommended it to a writer friend of mine who was interested in writing about abuse. Laurie Halse Anderson has written a book that deals with the difficult subject of rape in such a way that helps empower the victims of abuse. It's not pornographic nor is it gratuitous. It has been completely misrepresented by Scroggins.
I've been reading comments and blog posts about this issues and so many people have spoken out about how Speak has helped them through the aftermath of sexual abuse. For that reason alone, it shouldn't be removed from schools.
In fact, I recently recommended it to a writer friend of mine who was interested in writing about abuse. Laurie Halse Anderson has written a book that deals with the difficult subject of rape in such a way that helps empower the victims of abuse. It's not pornographic nor is it gratuitous. It has been completely misrepresented by Scroggins.
I've been reading comments and blog posts about this issues and so many people have spoken out about how Speak has helped them through the aftermath of sexual abuse. For that reason alone, it shouldn't be removed from schools.
25Aerrin99
Well, this thread has at least convinced me to order Speak from my library, as it sounds wonderful...
26girlfromshangrila
>20 cammykitty:: That is exactly what you should write to the school, with or without the foam. ;) I can relate to your anger. Where I come from, censorship is quite a problem. People just close their eyes to it and let it happen, which makes my blood boil.
Book banning (whichever form it takes) is bad enough, but banning books that might help young people see a serious topic from an insider's POV and understand how big a deal it is, well, that is almost criminal! And doing so on the basis on the 'immorality' of setting kids free by letting them see the truth (again, in a tactful, helpful way) is just plain ridiculous. And now I'm the one about to start foaming at the mouth...
Book banning (whichever form it takes) is bad enough, but banning books that might help young people see a serious topic from an insider's POV and understand how big a deal it is, well, that is almost criminal! And doing so on the basis on the 'immorality' of setting kids free by letting them see the truth (again, in a tactful, helpful way) is just plain ridiculous. And now I'm the one about to start foaming at the mouth...
27girlfromshangrila
>21 kiwiflowa:: Lisa, you have hit the nail on the head. That's one of the things that angers me most. Now well-meaning parents who want to protect their kids from "bad role models" will think Speak is an aberration, and forbid their children from reading it. I am so glad that there has been such an outpour of reactions in favor of Speak. Nobody should be able to throw dirt on a book like this person has done and get away with it.
28girlfromshangrila
>23 mimosa.stimulus:: You're right. So far I have a list of 19 excellent blog posts and many more to be checked out. I can't access your link, though. I favorited it yesterday, too, and can't access it that way either. Maybe the site is down?
>24 strandedon8jo:: "I've been reading comments and blog posts about this issues and so many people have spoken out about how Speak has helped them through the aftermath of sexual abuse. For that reason alone, it shouldn't be removed from schools."
Agreed! Have you seen Laurie Halse Anderson's video on a poem she wrote, based on all the moving responses she has received over Speak? I teared up when I saw it.
Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic1c_MaAMOI
>25 Aerrin99:: I'm glad some good has come out of this dirt storm. As I said to Kira above, it's an excellent book and I hope you enjoy it.
>24 strandedon8jo:: "I've been reading comments and blog posts about this issues and so many people have spoken out about how Speak has helped them through the aftermath of sexual abuse. For that reason alone, it shouldn't be removed from schools."
Agreed! Have you seen Laurie Halse Anderson's video on a poem she wrote, based on all the moving responses she has received over Speak? I teared up when I saw it.
Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic1c_MaAMOI
>25 Aerrin99:: I'm glad some good has come out of this dirt storm. As I said to Kira above, it's an excellent book and I hope you enjoy it.
29shadrach_anki
I have...mixed feelings about this whole situation.
On the one hand, Wesley Scroggins is trying to raise awareness of something he considers to be of serious concern in his community. He is asking parents to be more involved in the lives of their children, and particularly in the education of their children. As far as basic principles go, I find this to be admirable. It seems that more and more often parents are refusing to take any real part in the education of their children, which is to the detriment of those children and the future of the world.
On the other hand...I think Scroggins went about things in entirely the wrong way. As I have not read Speak (or any of the other books specifically mentioned, for that matter), I cannot personally comment on their contents. However, in reading descriptions here and on blogs, it is fairly obvious that Scroggins is vilifying the books through misrepresentation of the story and characters, taking things out of context as it suits him.
You can have something say pretty much anything by removing it from its context and carefully massaging the text. I find it sad that this man seems to think this is the only method available to him as he tries to get parents to take a more active and interested role in the education of their children.
On the one hand, Wesley Scroggins is trying to raise awareness of something he considers to be of serious concern in his community. He is asking parents to be more involved in the lives of their children, and particularly in the education of their children. As far as basic principles go, I find this to be admirable. It seems that more and more often parents are refusing to take any real part in the education of their children, which is to the detriment of those children and the future of the world.
On the other hand...I think Scroggins went about things in entirely the wrong way. As I have not read Speak (or any of the other books specifically mentioned, for that matter), I cannot personally comment on their contents. However, in reading descriptions here and on blogs, it is fairly obvious that Scroggins is vilifying the books through misrepresentation of the story and characters, taking things out of context as it suits him.
You can have something say pretty much anything by removing it from its context and carefully massaging the text. I find it sad that this man seems to think this is the only method available to him as he tries to get parents to take a more active and interested role in the education of their children.
30susiesharp
Message 29: shadrach_anki- But his children don't even go to that school they are home schooled so what business is it to him what those kids are reading?
I am also one of those adult readers of Speak and wish so much I'd had this book when I was a teen and afraid to speak maybe somethings in my life would have been different.
SpeakLoudly
I am also one of those adult readers of Speak and wish so much I'd had this book when I was a teen and afraid to speak maybe somethings in my life would have been different.
SpeakLoudly
31Kira
"But his children don't even go to that school they are home schooled so what business is it to him what those kids are reading?"
Despite my complete disagreement with his stance and pretty much everything else, I do think all community members have a right to some input on what schools are teaching.
(I hate people thinking schools are only worth consideration if you have children directly in them. Particularly as that argument is usually used to say that people without children shouldn't pay anything towards schools).
Despite my complete disagreement with his stance and pretty much everything else, I do think all community members have a right to some input on what schools are teaching.
(I hate people thinking schools are only worth consideration if you have children directly in them. Particularly as that argument is usually used to say that people without children shouldn't pay anything towards schools).
32shadrach_anki
Re: 30
His two younger children are, indeed, home schooled. His two older children attended public school. While he does not have children in the school system in question, he is part of the community that is served by those schools. His taxes help pay for those schools and those programs. Additionally, home schooling does not mean complete lack of interaction with the public school system.
If you look at his letter as a (albeit rather poorly thought out) plea that parents take a more active role in the education of their children...he practices what he is asking. For whatever reason or reasons, he and his wife have decided to home school their younger children, even though (or perhaps because) their older children went through public school.
Did he use broad, sweeping language and advocate banning books he felt were somehow inappropriate? Yes, and I definitely don't agree with that stance. However, he is allowed to feel the books are inappropriate, and he is allowed to voice his opinions. The reaction of the community to his expression will hopefully be mitigated by cooler thinking.
His two younger children are, indeed, home schooled. His two older children attended public school. While he does not have children in the school system in question, he is part of the community that is served by those schools. His taxes help pay for those schools and those programs. Additionally, home schooling does not mean complete lack of interaction with the public school system.
If you look at his letter as a (albeit rather poorly thought out) plea that parents take a more active role in the education of their children...he practices what he is asking. For whatever reason or reasons, he and his wife have decided to home school their younger children, even though (or perhaps because) their older children went through public school.
Did he use broad, sweeping language and advocate banning books he felt were somehow inappropriate? Yes, and I definitely don't agree with that stance. However, he is allowed to feel the books are inappropriate, and he is allowed to voice his opinions. The reaction of the community to his expression will hopefully be mitigated by cooler thinking.
33MerryMary
He is allowed to have opinions about books (and voice them). But he should not be allowed to dictate what students have available to read - other than his own. He is allowed to decide what his own children read, but not children in general.
34mimosa.stimulus
>28 girlfromshangrila:
The link works for me, so I don't know.
The link works for me, so I don't know.
35seasonsoflove
Book banning has always been appalling to me, but this is particularly true in the case of Speak, which has been one of my favorite books since I first read it in high school. I have re-read it countless times, written a paper on it, and seen the movie as well.
Speak is a beautifully written book about an incredibly difficult subject, with a main character who in some way, whether big or small, speaks for all of us. Regardless of if one has experienced what the main character goes through, everyone has felt out of place at some point or another.
The idea that some students could be denied the opportunity to read this incredible book is highly upsetting, and completely wrong.
Speak is a beautifully written book about an incredibly difficult subject, with a main character who in some way, whether big or small, speaks for all of us. Regardless of if one has experienced what the main character goes through, everyone has felt out of place at some point or another.
The idea that some students could be denied the opportunity to read this incredible book is highly upsetting, and completely wrong.
36girlfromshangrila
mimosa.stimulus:
Now it works for me, too. Whatever it was, it is fixed now, thanks.
shadrach_anki:
I see your point. Mr. Scroggins is entitled to his own opinions, and is of course allowed to express it publicly. He thinks Speak, Slaughterhouse-five and Twenty Boy Summer are not appropriate books for kids, he's welcome to say it outloud, write it up, print it on pamphlets and throw them from a helicopter into all four winds.
I'm sure even the authors themselves would be cool with that. I mean, what's the point of writing a book (and a book on touchy subjects on top of it) if you're going to stomp your foot, pout and whimper when it elicits discussion?
But that's not the case here. Mr. Scroggins is not opening a discussion about these books. He is specificly demanding that these books be banned from school libraries and (obviously) struck out of school curriculums. If he were just stating that he disliked those books, if he were alerting the community about stuff that might 'taint' their children, well fine! But a banning challenge? Pretending to tell everybody what they should or shouldn't read? Don't you think that's a little over the top?
But that's not it. This person is basing this whole banning crusade on false statements. He is calling these books horrible names. I can't speak for Slaughterhouse Five or Twenty Boy Summer, since I haven't read them yet (but now I most certainly will), however I will stand up for Speak as often as I can. I have already said it, other LTers have already said it, and the blogosphere is bubbling with people saying it, but I'll summarize it in this sentence: anyone who states that rape is porn and a book on that topic should be banned doesn't deserve a saying in what books are read by anyone, let alone an entire high school. If this man thinks these books are inappropriate, then alright. But why does he have to make them seem like something they're not? Why? Can anyone tell me? Because I sure as heck don't get it.
But hey, even that is not it either. Again, I have said this before here and elsewhere on the Internet, but Speak is a helpful book. It opens a door to discussion on topics that all kids should know about, and it doesn't do it in a gruesome, will-scar-you-for-life way. This has the potential to help youngsters who have been struggling with serious issues, from date rape to depression. This book has already helped plenty of people find their own voice, speak up about what's eating them from inside. And we will let a book like that be taken away from kids? Really? We will just sit back and let it happen? What's wrong with us?!?!
Now it works for me, too. Whatever it was, it is fixed now, thanks.
shadrach_anki:
I see your point. Mr. Scroggins is entitled to his own opinions, and is of course allowed to express it publicly. He thinks Speak, Slaughterhouse-five and Twenty Boy Summer are not appropriate books for kids, he's welcome to say it outloud, write it up, print it on pamphlets and throw them from a helicopter into all four winds.
I'm sure even the authors themselves would be cool with that. I mean, what's the point of writing a book (and a book on touchy subjects on top of it) if you're going to stomp your foot, pout and whimper when it elicits discussion?
But that's not the case here. Mr. Scroggins is not opening a discussion about these books. He is specificly demanding that these books be banned from school libraries and (obviously) struck out of school curriculums. If he were just stating that he disliked those books, if he were alerting the community about stuff that might 'taint' their children, well fine! But a banning challenge? Pretending to tell everybody what they should or shouldn't read? Don't you think that's a little over the top?
But that's not it. This person is basing this whole banning crusade on false statements. He is calling these books horrible names. I can't speak for Slaughterhouse Five or Twenty Boy Summer, since I haven't read them yet (but now I most certainly will), however I will stand up for Speak as often as I can. I have already said it, other LTers have already said it, and the blogosphere is bubbling with people saying it, but I'll summarize it in this sentence: anyone who states that rape is porn and a book on that topic should be banned doesn't deserve a saying in what books are read by anyone, let alone an entire high school. If this man thinks these books are inappropriate, then alright. But why does he have to make them seem like something they're not? Why? Can anyone tell me? Because I sure as heck don't get it.
But hey, even that is not it either. Again, I have said this before here and elsewhere on the Internet, but Speak is a helpful book. It opens a door to discussion on topics that all kids should know about, and it doesn't do it in a gruesome, will-scar-you-for-life way. This has the potential to help youngsters who have been struggling with serious issues, from date rape to depression. This book has already helped plenty of people find their own voice, speak up about what's eating them from inside. And we will let a book like that be taken away from kids? Really? We will just sit back and let it happen? What's wrong with us?!?!
37girlfromshangrila
Oops. I guess I got carried away. Sorry. And shadrach, I really don't mean that post as a personal attack on you or your opinion, really. Your note just triggered some thoughts that had been simmering in my brain for the entire week. I don't mean to shove them on anybody's face, and I hope you don't see it that way. :-(
Kira: I agree with you to an extent, but I'm with MerryMary on this one.
MerryMary: You express my thoughts in a clearer, much more succint way than I possibly could :-)
seasonsoflove: Thank you for chiming in! Speak is also one of my favorite books. (Can you tell?) It is comments like yours that might help tip the balance against this banning call. Thank you again.
Kira: I agree with you to an extent, but I'm with MerryMary on this one.
MerryMary: You express my thoughts in a clearer, much more succint way than I possibly could :-)
seasonsoflove: Thank you for chiming in! Speak is also one of my favorite books. (Can you tell?) It is comments like yours that might help tip the balance against this banning call. Thank you again.
38susiesharp
Thank-you merrymerry I guess you said that better than I did.
girlfromshangrila-I know what you mean about being riled up I have been too and I think its not only that he wants these books banned which is bad enough but that he called Speak soft porn RAPE is NOT Soft Porn it is a Violent Act.
Banning Books is not a solution Ever if you don't want your children reading these books then fine don't let them read them but don't take that choice away from anyone else!
SpeakLoudly!
girlfromshangrila-I know what you mean about being riled up I have been too and I think its not only that he wants these books banned which is bad enough but that he called Speak soft porn RAPE is NOT Soft Porn it is a Violent Act.
Banning Books is not a solution Ever if you don't want your children reading these books then fine don't let them read them but don't take that choice away from anyone else!
SpeakLoudly!
39strandedon8jo
>28 girlfromshangrila:, I haven't heard the poem but I'll definitely check it out. Thanks.
40shadrach_anki
girlfromshangrila:
No offense taken. About the only thing I have to say in this is that I think it's important that parents take an active role in the education of their children. Presumably they will know their children better than pretty much anybody else. So as far as Mr. Scroggins is supporting that (and from further reading he, unfortunately, seems to have a more militant, non-discussion agenda which isn't based on the type of Christian teachings I'm familiar with) I can express an understanding.
But one person shouldn't be dictating how things will go for everybody else. Removing the agency of others isn't Christian either, and that seems to be the greater agenda.
Expressing concern is one thing. Voicing opinions is one thing. Both can lead to meaningful, enlightening discussion. But that is rather lacking here in Mr. Scroggins' rhetoric.
No offense taken. About the only thing I have to say in this is that I think it's important that parents take an active role in the education of their children. Presumably they will know their children better than pretty much anybody else. So as far as Mr. Scroggins is supporting that (and from further reading he, unfortunately, seems to have a more militant, non-discussion agenda which isn't based on the type of Christian teachings I'm familiar with) I can express an understanding.
But one person shouldn't be dictating how things will go for everybody else. Removing the agency of others isn't Christian either, and that seems to be the greater agenda.
Expressing concern is one thing. Voicing opinions is one thing. Both can lead to meaningful, enlightening discussion. But that is rather lacking here in Mr. Scroggins' rhetoric.
41teresamac
I can see why you are upset. He did miss the point completely. But Anderson did an excellent job in defending the story she told. I am not impress with the book as much as some people. I would not endorse people being forced to read it for a grade, but if a person wishes to read then they should have access to it.
42SimonW11
one of the things I object to least about Mr Scroggins, was him his use of tnhe word pornography.
It was an unfortunate choicce but Mr Scroggins i am sure thinks of Pornography. not as works created to arouse sexual interest. but rather as the depiction of vileness. now Mr Scroggins and I might disagree about a lot of things but I think we both find the rape of a teenager vile.
I approve of Speak because it shows rape to be vile , and considers how to deal with it. Things that I would Like everyone to have absorbed before they left school.
learning about right and wrong learning how to survive all to common dangers. these are things worth teaching.
22% of females raped are under the age of 12 years; 32% are 12-17 years old. They need to be told that they can speak that they will not be ignored.
Banning speak Would instead tell them that no one wants to listen.
It was an unfortunate choicce but Mr Scroggins i am sure thinks of Pornography. not as works created to arouse sexual interest. but rather as the depiction of vileness. now Mr Scroggins and I might disagree about a lot of things but I think we both find the rape of a teenager vile.
I approve of Speak because it shows rape to be vile , and considers how to deal with it. Things that I would Like everyone to have absorbed before they left school.
learning about right and wrong learning how to survive all to common dangers. these are things worth teaching.
22% of females raped are under the age of 12 years; 32% are 12-17 years old. They need to be told that they can speak that they will not be ignored.
Banning speak Would instead tell them that no one wants to listen.
43susiesharp
The Power Of Speaking Loudly http://bit.ly/9oH6L4 from Laurie Halse Anderson's blog you can see the original article, Ms. Anderson's Letter to the editor response and Sarah Ocklers letter to the editor too, also all the newspaper articles that have been written. Its a very good post.
44girlfromshangrila
> 38: E-xac-tly! :-)
> 39: My pleasure.
> 40: Glad to know you didn't take offense. I think we're on the same page after all. :-)
> 41: I see your point, and appreciate your sharing it. Thanks.
> 42: Thank you, Simon. I agree with your second and third paragraph to no end. Now, the word pornography means what it means, regardless of the workings of my own brain. I'd be *very* careful before referring to a rape scene in a book to *alert* poeple about rape as pornography.
And considering the repulsive way in which he describes the book (which by now should be clear is not in the least truthful), it seems like a deliberate action. I can't let that be swept under the rug, sorry.
> 43: You're right again. Thanks for posting the link.
> 39: My pleasure.
> 40: Glad to know you didn't take offense. I think we're on the same page after all. :-)
> 41: I see your point, and appreciate your sharing it. Thanks.
> 42: Thank you, Simon. I agree with your second and third paragraph to no end. Now, the word pornography means what it means, regardless of the workings of my own brain. I'd be *very* careful before referring to a rape scene in a book to *alert* poeple about rape as pornography.
And considering the repulsive way in which he describes the book (which by now should be clear is not in the least truthful), it seems like a deliberate action. I can't let that be swept under the rug, sorry.
> 43: You're right again. Thanks for posting the link.
45girlfromshangrila
Hey guys! I'm up to my ears with things to do, so I haven't been able to put up the list of blogs on this subject.
I've been trying to at least keep up with the giveaways that are somehow related to this 'situation'. I'm posting them in this thread: http://www.librarything.com/topic/44093
So far I have uploaded six posts with 14 links to different giveaways. The posts that accompany the giveaways are very good too, so they would make a good stop even for those who don't want to participate.
I'll try have that list ready very soon. Thanks for your patience. =)
I've been trying to at least keep up with the giveaways that are somehow related to this 'situation'. I'm posting them in this thread: http://www.librarything.com/topic/44093
So far I have uploaded six posts with 14 links to different giveaways. The posts that accompany the giveaways are very good too, so they would make a good stop even for those who don't want to participate.
I'll try have that list ready very soon. Thanks for your patience. =)
46Emidawg
What this fellow doesnt understand, is that the more he tries to get the book banned, the more he is helping the book. Free advertising! His small negative voice aside the loud positive endorsements by people who have actually read it.
To be honest I had never even heard of Harry Potter until some "concerned citizens" tried to ban it, the same with The Golden Compass.
I had never heard of Speak until now either, it has been added to my TBR list ^_^.
On a side note, I purchased a bag of "Wake the Fuck Up" coffee for a co-worker as a joke. We work night shift and she was always falling asleep at her station. She left it on the counter by accident one day and when the day shifters came in one of them freaked out and said that the bag of coffe was "Pornographic". So remember folks... one single word can be porn!
To be honest I had never even heard of Harry Potter until some "concerned citizens" tried to ban it, the same with The Golden Compass.
I had never heard of Speak until now either, it has been added to my TBR list ^_^.
On a side note, I purchased a bag of "Wake the Fuck Up" coffee for a co-worker as a joke. We work night shift and she was always falling asleep at her station. She left it on the counter by accident one day and when the day shifters came in one of them freaked out and said that the bag of coffe was "Pornographic". So remember folks... one single word can be porn!
48Alaric.Adair
It is difficult to handle sensitively. One of the teenage characters in one of my books was abused by his kidnappers, but I chose to write it without any direct reference or description of the event. I left sufficient clues in the story to allow people with experience of life to guess what had happened. I took that approach because younger teens may read the book and they may not want "too much information".
I do however object to people making exaggerated representations about such books as Speak and suggesting they should be banned. Young adults are really quite able make up their own minds on a storyline without having access suppressed by narrow minded people. I really must add Speak to my reading list to see what all the fuss is about.
I do however object to people making exaggerated representations about such books as Speak and suggesting they should be banned. Young adults are really quite able make up their own minds on a storyline without having access suppressed by narrow minded people. I really must add Speak to my reading list to see what all the fuss is about.
49SimonW11
reading books is I think analogous to climbing trees. children try to climb them, master the easy ones and abandon the harder ones. They should have the opportunity to try both.
to present them with only one or the other is a mistake. Children are generally better judge of their ability to climb trees or handle themes in books than the people who wish to decide for them.
to present them with only one or the other is a mistake. Children are generally better judge of their ability to climb trees or handle themes in books than the people who wish to decide for them.
50suekimmet
I have used Speak to introduce a difficult subject to girls in my freshman special education classes. It has helped me discuss the topic of rape and how to avoid it in a non-threatening way. I'm grateful to Laurie Halse Anderson for writing it.
51cammykitty
Simon> You are so right. Kids put down books really quickly when they hit something they can't handle. I couple kids in my summer school tried reading When Dad Killed Mom which is a great book about creating a family once you have lost your biological one. One kid put it down because of a description of a feminine issue. The other one kept going and loved it so much that I never got it back. & I know she kept reading it. She returned Angus, Thongs, and Full-frontal Snogging. & she didn't have a clue what "snogging" meant.
52susiesharp
Here is a blogpost that proves that Banned Books Week might be over but the fight against censorship needs to go on. Read Risha's story:
http://fortheloveofya.blogspot.com/
I almost cried while reading her story!
http://fortheloveofya.blogspot.com/
I almost cried while reading her story!
53trixie99belden
Not only was Scroggin's idea bad, but his method backfired.
I had heard of Laurie Halse Anderson, but I never thought of her books as something I wanted to read.
Then I heard the outcry over Speak, and I put it on hold at my library.
This book is not pornography. It is not even about rape. It is about depression, and about dealing with the aftermath of rape. The rape itself was handled very carefully by Ms. Anderson. But the story itself was about Melinda's journey, about learning how to stand up for herself and speak out.
Obviously Mr. Scroggins has never actually read the book.
I had heard of Laurie Halse Anderson, but I never thought of her books as something I wanted to read.
Then I heard the outcry over Speak, and I put it on hold at my library.
This book is not pornography. It is not even about rape. It is about depression, and about dealing with the aftermath of rape. The rape itself was handled very carefully by Ms. Anderson. But the story itself was about Melinda's journey, about learning how to stand up for herself and speak out.
Obviously Mr. Scroggins has never actually read the book.
54girlfromshangrila
Hi guys! Sorry I took so long in coming back. Thank you all for keeping this topic alive.
> 46: LOL! That is hilarious, Emidawg! I want a coffee mug like that, if only to test my coworkers.
> 48: Good points, Alaric.Adair. And you're right about some things being hard to handle.
I think Laurie Halse Anderson managed her subjects in a tactful way as well, if she does use the word rape at some point.
There is one scene by the end that brought a lump to my throat, though, and I think that part could have been treated with a little more delicacy, but it's still nothing too ugly for a 14 year old, I think. Of all the books I've read on difficult matters, YA or not, this one is definitely the best in my opinion... for what it's worth.
I'd love to hear your opinions on Speak when you read it. :-)
> 49: Interesting analogy. I'm not sure if I agree, but it's a good point nonetheless.
> 46: LOL! That is hilarious, Emidawg! I want a coffee mug like that, if only to test my coworkers.
> 48: Good points, Alaric.Adair. And you're right about some things being hard to handle.
I think Laurie Halse Anderson managed her subjects in a tactful way as well, if she does use the word rape at some point.
There is one scene by the end that brought a lump to my throat, though, and I think that part could have been treated with a little more delicacy, but it's still nothing too ugly for a 14 year old, I think. Of all the books I've read on difficult matters, YA or not, this one is definitely the best in my opinion... for what it's worth.
I'd love to hear your opinions on Speak when you read it. :-)
> 49: Interesting analogy. I'm not sure if I agree, but it's a good point nonetheless.
55girlfromshangrila
> 50: And that is exactly why I don't think it should be taken away from school libraries and clasrooms! This book can help people. In fact, it has. I've read so many blog posts that make it very clear, these couple of weeks. So many girls and women saying how this book helped them come to terms with the horrible things they've been through. So many of them express the same thought: I wish this book had reached me before. This book shoudln't be taken away from teens: they're the ones who need it most! Why can't the Scroggins of the world get that?
56girlfromshangrila
> 51: Heh. I had to google snogging when I first came across that title! But I think I would have passed on that title too, if it had been offered to me in my teens. Not so with Speak, though.
> 52: Great link! Thanks for passing it on. I almost cried, too. Too bad the author chose to delete it. She explains the reasons here. Can't say that I agree, but at least one can try to understand.
> 52: Great link! Thanks for passing it on. I almost cried, too. Too bad the author chose to delete it. She explains the reasons here. Can't say that I agree, but at least one can try to understand.
57girlfromshangrila
> 53: Agree, agree, and agree. I'm glad that this whole thing has gotten more people reading Speak. I hadn't read the other two books mentioned in the original article, but I'm hunting for them now, and will read them as soon as I can get hold of a copy of each. There's always a bright side to everything, and maybe this is no exception. Take that, censors! :-)
I don't know if Scroggins read the book or not, but that is no excuse for referring to it the way he did, or is it?
I don't know if Scroggins read the book or not, but that is no excuse for referring to it the way he did, or is it?
58akl5
Sorry for coming to the discussion late. Maybe no one is reading this anymore. I agree with the overall refutation with any kind of censorship. Read what you whant and let others read what they want... and let librarians and teachers be advisors for what is good for kids!
My point is that expressing his oposition so loudly at least provoked all of these replies. I am afraid that other people do this kind of censorship in hidden ways, and that is hard to fight. The other day I bought a book at a Goodwill used books store. It was The Absolute True Diary of a Part-Time Indian. The book was a permabound copy (library copy) with tags and labels removed and stamps crossed over with marker. It was clearly a book that some parents decided to "weed" from the school library by not returning it. Sadly, that happens a lot. They expect that libraries will take long to replace them, or they won't at all.
My point is that expressing his oposition so loudly at least provoked all of these replies. I am afraid that other people do this kind of censorship in hidden ways, and that is hard to fight. The other day I bought a book at a Goodwill used books store. It was The Absolute True Diary of a Part-Time Indian. The book was a permabound copy (library copy) with tags and labels removed and stamps crossed over with marker. It was clearly a book that some parents decided to "weed" from the school library by not returning it. Sadly, that happens a lot. They expect that libraries will take long to replace them, or they won't at all.
59jnwelch
That book (The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian), is a great one, which makes it even more unfortunate. The good news is it's been extremely popular and a consistent seller. Some of the sales may have been fueled by this type of "forbidden fruit" censorship stupidity.
Tried to fix the touchstone.
Tried to fix the touchstone.
60cammykitty
akl5> Thanks for posting that. & even more sad because most school libraries are really struggling with funding. I hope the thieves donated something in it's place, although the average kid probably wouldn't want to read what they found suitable to donate. I'm shocked you found the corpse though. I would have thought they would burn it, & put more CO2 and pollution into our atmosphere.
61girlfromshangrila
#58: Speak of passive agressive! I can't believe anyone would do that to a Library's property. Amazing.
And by the way, I just got my copy of The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian yesterday, and I'm so excited about it! It took me nearly three months to get hold of a copy... and then there are criminals like the ones mentioned above who try to keep books like that one away from readers. Also amazing.
And by the way, I just got my copy of The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian yesterday, and I'm so excited about it! It took me nearly three months to get hold of a copy... and then there are criminals like the ones mentioned above who try to keep books like that one away from readers. Also amazing.

