If There Be Thorns

Trying to put their past behind them, Chris and Cathy are now living as man and wife in California, raising Cathy's children - fourteen-year-old Jory, who takes after Cathy and Julian in his love for dance, and ten-year-old Bart, who is troubled, to say the least. Jory and Bart take turns narrating the story (except for the epilogue), although Bart probably narrates two-thirds of the book. Although Bart is an odd little boy, he really takes a turn for the worse when a mysterious woman moves next door to them. Soon, she's telling Bart that she's his grandmother, lavishing him with presents, while the woman's butler, John Amos, starts filling Bart's already troubled mind with Malcolm Foxworth's poisonous words.

So, the first thing I want show more to say is that although these books are like soap operas, I just can't leave them alone. I can't. I read Flowers in the Attic when I was younger, and it is one of those books that left an imprint on me. I apologize for nothing.

The book starts out rather slowly, with little action. In spite of their pasts, Chris and Cathy are, for the most part, happy now. Chris is a successful doctor, and Cathy runs a school of dance in their new town. Jory seems like a normal enough boy, and he loves his mother and step-father. The only thorns in their sides seem to be Cathy's troubling actions , like recreating the attic in their own attic, complete with two beds, which understandably freaks Chris out once he discovers this fact; and Bart's even more troubling personality. He might be ten, but he speaks and acts much younger. He also has some type of medical condition where he finds it almost impossible to feel physical pain; at one point, he is completely unaware that a nail has punctured his knee until he sees the blood trickling down his calf.

To compound Bart's instability, he is extremely jealous of the newest addition to the family, Cindy, a two-year-old orphan whose mother was one of Cathy's students and he's fascinated with the deserted mansion next door. He's more than a little upset when the property is purchased and he's told, in no uncertain terms, that he's not allowed to play there anymore. But the new owner, a woman who cloaks herself in black, including her face, welcomes Bart into her house, spoiling him with lavish gifts. And it's pretty danged obvious from the beginning that this is actually Cathy and Chris's mother, Corrine.

And then Bart goes full on psycho. As in, literally. He kills animals - his grandmother's kitten; the family's pet poodle, Clover; and his own puppy, a St. Bernard named Apple, given to him by his grandmother. And if this doesn't spell out "future serial killer" in bright neon letters, I don't know what would. Then Bart graduates into helping kidnap his own mother, because she's a woman and a sinner. Uhh, okay. Chris and Cathy seem oblivious about just how disturbed Bart is - they do take him to a psychiatrist, but they don't want to send him to an institution, even though Bart actually threatens to stab his mother with a knife, and he doesn't care because he's only ten and the police won't arrest him. But, hey, let's keep him around the other two children, including a helpless toddler. Sure, sounds like a good plan to me! I think that's one of the things that makes this book a tough sell to me - Bart is such an incredibly unsympathetic narrator, and I found myself reading more to see how weird things would get (hint: very) with him becoming detached from any set of ethics or morality.

The book is over the top and dramatic, but I wouldn't expect anything less from a V.C. Andrews book. And, damn it, I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the books in the series in spite of everything. show less

This book doesn't have the same feel as FitA or PotW, but is still a wonderful book, and it helps to explain some of the shit that happened in the previous books, through the introduction of Malcolm Foxworth's diary. People wonder why Malcolm was the way he was, and Bart's reading of his journal helps to shed some light in why the Foxworth bloodline became so twisted and why Malcolm treated/saw women the way he did.

The previous 2 books were told entirely from Cathy's perspective, and not including the prologue of FITA, or the epilogue of POTW, covers about 15 years (1957 to 1973, said prologue covered the early 50s, the epilogue touched on the late 70's/early 80's) and it made sense to have Cathy narrate these two books, but for this show more one, the narrative shifts to her two sons.

The storyline focuses on Jory and Bart and the narrative alternates between them, and how they come to know the old lady next door - and her dark secret, and how Malcolm's madness continued to live on. Bart can be a real brat at times, but considering his place in the family and how inferior he feels compared to his handsome, talented older brother, or the little girl his parents adopt later in this book, one can see how he could be tempted to the dark side, so to speak. Fans will have mixed reactions to this book, but I think it was worth telling and the fact that the boys, instead of Cathy, narrating this book made sense given the content and story. show less

"Out of the ruins should come the roses, right?"

Yeesh. What a difficult book to read. I thought, as the series continued, it'd stay as adult books. But this book is told from the POV of (I believe) an 8 year old and a 10 year old.

The 10 year old, Jory, is just like Chris. Would do anything for his mother, Cathy, he just can't seem to get enough of dancing and being a good son and loving his mother.

Bart, however, is a very angry, confused, awful little boy. He hates his mother and yet - wants her to love him so much, he would rather kill everyone around her than share her. Not that he wants her, just that he wants her to dote on and love only him.

This swirling mind of an 8 year old is just a cesspool of horrible delusions, animal show more killing, bible spouting (and twisting), "whore" yelling monster. It was a test just to read his chapters - and he's at least 80% of the book. But just as trying were the "perfect son" Jory chapters as he sought to try to make it all better and love his mother so much.

I wish I could say that Cathy has really grown as a character, now that she's a mother. But no, she's still awful and says cruel and awful things to Chris, just to manipulate him (hmmmm, sounds like mommy issues to me!) and can't help but want every man in the room to love her.

So far, this series hasn't gotten better for me. If my buddy reading partner doesn't continue after this one, I don't plan to either. show less

So many mental illnesses!
This book is full of mental illnesses!

You have Bart, who is just completely nutso -- a lot like his mother, Cathy, who continues to be completely batty! Then Chris, who continues to have an unhealthy attraction to his mother (Oedipus Syndrome), but who also hates her because she locked them in the attic ... but loves her too ... so clings to Cathy because Cathy looks like his mother. So many issues!

I really expected to hate this book all the way through but things were sort of cleaned up nicely at the end and now I'm curious how the story continues.

Adrianne

OK, cards on the table, I hate this book and wish it hadn't been written. It's not even very readable - it's supposed to be a spooky 'maybe my kid is a psycho' book, like 'We need to talk about Kevin', but somehow it manages to drag. I care so much about Cathy from the previous books, but her blinkered wanting to adopt a third child so she had a _girl_, and just the breath taking stupidity of spending an entire book with 'my son is going round to see a Mysterious Woman next door and is getting crazier and darker' goes on for so long when it ought to be pretty obvious it's her mother. The Bad Guy feels retconned, like 'I need a bad guy, so I'm going to try and remember if I wrote about anyone in the first book that didn't die, and then show more make them More Important than they were', and over the top. It did have the scene I had been dreading for so long, the 'if you don't give me your son I will tell the world you're siblings' denouement, and yet, even that was clunkily written and didn't go anywhere. I don't think I'll be re reading. show less

3.5 stars

“If we could survive the worst, doesn’t it stand to reason we should be able to bear the best?”

Of course there's tragedy with this series, but there's also something bizarrely beautiful. It's a mesmerizing series, not perfect but hard to get out of once you dig in. It would be a shame to just read Flowers In The Attic and not continue the series - even if the original was the best, the sequels feed into each other, making the story richer.

I went back and forth between 3 and 4 stars. Sometimes it was as fascinating as the others, impossible to put down, but other times it felt a little repetitive and some magic was lost through the brother's points of views. While the weakest of the original four, it's still worth reading show more and makes the garden that much more haunting.

Bart goes from adorable when he pretends to be cowboys and animals, funny when he hates everything, pitiful when he feels like the loner and sore thumb of the family, to obnoxious when he keep repeating his bad behavior, until finally downright creepy - especially that last page with the potent final paragraph.

Jory is the good brother but rather boring. It makes sense he'd be drawn to dance, but he doesn't stand out much otherwise.

Since it's not through Cathy's viewpoint, she and Chris seem a little less real and sympathetic. She came across more of a harpy Chris was rooted to half the time, deranged with a vicious mouth, but the attic lure was intriguing in the beginning. Chris just kind of seems there - I always loved him in the other books but he's kind of a shadow on the wall this time. I didn't sense the depth of their affections as deeply.

I'm trying to place the maid Emma. It seems she may have been in Petals or something with how familiar she is with the situation, but I can't place her. The grandmother - dare I say I actually felt bad for the mother in this book. I believe she's finally repentant and realizes how horrible she was. Sometimes the small manipulation comes out, especially talking to Chris, but I felt for her parts of the time. John is sinister, sure, but he's also a cartoon cardboard, bringing to this book more of a cheap feel.

The book doesn't have as much melodrama as some of the others, but it is more unconvincing. The parents should have been more curious about the neighbor after Jory's first slip. They did seem rather oblivious and didn't investigate as they should have. Also, Chris didn't follow up with Bart enough after he knew about the neighbor's real identity. He told her to keep him away, he told Bart to stay away, but Bart still kept going over there and Chris basically ignored it.

The animal stuff was tragic-sad and the hardest thing about the book to stomach.

Even though its length rivals the others, it didn't have a strong enough story to continue this long. Too much repetition with Bart's actions, confusion, and going back and forth to remorseful child and then demented monster-spawn. It grew old after awhile.

The ending was awesome, though. An art of forgiveness and coming clean, the irony of the two trapped together in the end, that act of redemption...and finally to Cathy's viewpoint for the last chapter. The ending was the best part of the book.

Overall, this isn't perfect but it's still enjoyable for a series that can never be rivaled with its pure Gothic tones, tragic family saga storylines, and inventive twists. Definitely one of the most haunting series written. show less

If There Be Thorns is the third book in the Dollanganger series that started with Flowers In The Attic. It begins with Cathy and Christopher living together and raising Cathy's two sons. The oldest is Jory, Julian Marquet's son—Cathy's first husband, and the youngest is Bart, who is the son of Dr. Paul Scott Sheffield (or is he?)—Cathy's second husband. The story is creepy right from the start as Cathy, who seems a little off in the head, insists on adopting an orphan girl named Cindy. Next, a strange old lady with a weird servant moves in next door. When Bart starts coming around they befriend him with treats, pets, and a journal that seems to be written by one of his ancestors...old Malcolm Winslow. Bart quickly becomes twisted show more and violent as he learns more and more about his true beginnings. If you like intrigue, drama, complicated relationships that are often incestuous, and really insane people, you will love this gothic horror story. show less