Uglies Series, Dystopic or Utopic??

Sorry if you don't know what dystopic or utopic is, I like to use big words because it makes me sound smarter :). Here's a general defenition though.
A dystopia is a society that is not perfect and has problems. So pretty much every society.
A utopian society is a society that is perfect and all citizens are happy.

So tell me what you think, The Uglies Series, dystopic or Utopic??

I've never read the Uglies series, but my sister is just starting them. I've heard they are really good though!

Well it's another series to add to your reading list!!

And if your sister is on LibraryThing, have her join the group!! I would love to debate with her about the series!!

Her user name is hyper13. I invited her but she kinda ignored me... you could invite her if you want!

She's your sister!! Just get her to join!! Or try to find some one else who has read uglies!! :)

I'll try my best! :)

I now have a new question relaing to this topic for all people on the web. What would be your perfect world, where everyone was happy. Take ur time think it over then post it!!

its obviously a dystopia. i mean theres a big group who dont like the way its run, so everyone is not happy.
but i loved that series. i started reading extras and couldnt finish it. i only got maybe three chapters into it. i missed the old characters.
but the other three were soooo good.

I think you would have to think about whose point of view the opinion was coming from. For example all of the "pretties" in the population would say it was utopic. On the other hand could the "uglies" say the same thing??

I haven't looked at this topic and thought I should ask a different question to all of you.

What would be your perfect book world??

#8 I thought the same thing when I first started reading Extras. I was so attached to the old characters that I just didn't care about these new ones. However, the old characters make a return in the second half of the book. I thought it was interesting to see how the author blended the old and new character's story together. It's not as good as the first three books, but I did like getting a glimpse of what life was like for Tally and the gang post-Dr. Cable.

As a side note, I couldn't remember the character's names so I looked them up on Wikipedia and the description of the books is "It is set in a future post-scarcity dystopian world in which . . . "

I'll have to think about my perfect book world and get back to y'all on that one.

I never read extras I wanted to bit never got to it. I doubt I can read it now since i forgot all he characters and everything!!

Was extras as good as the other ones??

Srry this isn't really about the Uglies series, well kinda. Anyway I am reading this series by the same author. The first book in the series is Leviathon. Has anyone read it?? I could use some help understanding it!!

I have that in my library. I started reading it but just couldnt into it. Is it any good?

Yes and no, parts are good and other parts in the beginning I don't understand. That's why I need someone who's read it!!

after i read it. we can discuss. :)

In answer to both the questions mrmcfluff asked:

The series is most definitely a dystopia. The pretties only think it's the perfect world because their brains have been altered to a place where they don't really care about anything but being party animals. Of course they love it. Plus, a utopia would still look perfect from the outside and attract more people to it. In a utopia EVERYONE is happy and more people want to be there so they can be happy...if that makes any sense(?). My stance is that utopias don't really exist in literature...Unless you're talking about heaven which I put in a completely different place in my brain (but that's just crazy-old me).

About a utopic book-world, I wouldn't want one. Utopias where everything is all peace and harmony and everybody loves everybody would be a very boring story. No conflict, ya know?

I've been looking forward to reading Leviathan. I always thought steam/diesel punk were cool and I love Scott Westerfield. He has at least two other series that aren't Leviathan or Uglies. One of them is Peeps (which is a novel and a sequel I think) and I think the other is The Midnighters, but I might be wrong.

Forgive my verboseness, I'm new to the chat room scene. XP

I was wondering if anyone thought that maybe the Uglies series should become a movie?? Thoughts??

yes!! they should. but they should stop at the specials and not make extras a movie, if they did.

I think that in the Uglies and Specials it was dytopic. In the Pretties is was utopic. In the Extras I guess it's a mixture of both. I don't know.

I was just thinking with hunger games comin out soon and everything. Do you think that Uglies, if it was a movie would be any good??

yea! i would def. go see it!
it would be very interesting to see how they would do it and what everything would look like.

haven't read it.. it's on my to read list.

Uglies is defintely a dystopic novel. The Uglies are brainwashed and subjugated, as are the Pretties - not thinking or forming a rational idea, while being controlled by other people is subjugation in my book. See Soviet Russia, China, North Korea, Cuba, and all other Communist countries for more on that topic.

23 You should read it. I love Scott Westerfeld. I think the Uglies series is every bit as good as the Peeps series, and that was amazing.

I agree with Eris. The Uglies series does reflect what happened/is happening in those countries.

Uglies sort of reminds me of the Dystopic world of Farenheit 451.

i have uglies... waiting to read it so that i can finish my current book :)

You will have to refresh my memory because I haven't read the Uglies in a long time.

May I helpfully point you to my review of the book? :D

http://www.librarything.com/profile_reviews.php?view=ErisofDiscord

Thank you eris that is helpful. :)

Woohoo! :D

So according to the definition below (of dystopia), the Uglies series is dystopic. A lot of the definitions I found said that dystopia was the idea of a repressed society under the pretense of being utopic.

Noun
1.
dystopia - state in which the conditions of life are extremely bad as from deprivation or oppression or terror
2.
dystopia - a work of fiction describing an imaginary place where life is extremely bad because of deprivation or oppression or terror

Wow thank you maglet for looking the definition up. That's awesome because now we have something really concrete to compare the uglies world to. And I totally agree that uglies was dystopic. but you also have to take into account whos perspective you were looking from. For example the "Pretties" would probably saw their world is pretty utopic.

Completely random but whatever : do u guys think a utopia is actually possible?

I think it can yes.
It just might take a while to get there.

Not in this world. Humans are naturally prone to disagreement and fighting. There will never be true peace on Earth due to our humanity.

well that's depressing...

No it's not. It's just reality. We can do our best to make the world a better place, however, but it would be stupid to think that we can achieve perfection on our own and as humans. We are not angels and we are not God.

If someone wrote a book about a utopic society, would you guys want to read it?

Depends on the story. If its a good novel, I'll read it. If it's along the lines of Karl Marx it'll bore me to tears. Have you ever tried reading The Communist Manifesto? I got a chapter into it and I had to put it down it was so pathetically dry. At least Ayn Rand, for all her faults and weird ideas, could tell a good story.

i dont think a utopia is possible, because everyone has a different view of what that would be.

Right on, Sarah.

I have to agree with Eris on this one. Yes, Eris, I have read The Communist Manifesto. We did a politics bit in a Literature class I took in college. Like Sarah said, everyone has a different idea of what a utopia is. There are too many ideas of that floating around. No one could 1. Agree on on or 2. Actually execute the plan. I mean, this of what it would entail. You could safely say that a utopia would not include child molesters or rapists or murderers. So, the question is, how would you get rid of them? Killing them all would not be very utopic. Locking them up wouldn't work, because eventually you would have to let them out. I read a very interesting book called Herland in which there is a Utopic society without men. But that wouldn't work either, for obvious reasons. It seems to me that no matter what idea for a utopia people come up with, it's really a dystopia underneath. Look at Chairman Mao. He thought he was creating a utopia. So did Hilter, for that matter. So the big question is: Who decides whose idea is the best, and who gets to make it happen? If you look at it from a constitutional point of view, we are all equals, so no one should get that kind of power.

Hear, hear, Leah!

That is the wonderful thing about our Constitution. The power is equally balanced between the three branches of government, and people of opposing viewpoints get the chance to present their opinions to the American public and have them decide about who they should elect. Certainly America isn't perfect, but no country is, and the U.S. has done a good job trying to fix their wrongs. I think that the United States is the closest thing that we have to a utopia. It isn't perfect, but it is free, and people have the oppurtunity to make their own choices here.

Good discussion topic, mrmcfluff!

I will always supply the canvas as long as you all will decide to paint on it.
(Not my best analogy, I'll work on it though.)

I was talking with my friend today and she said that she thinks it would be possible to have a utopic dystopia. I say that it would just be called a dystopia because that what a dystopia is. Other wise it would be just an oxymoron...

Any thoughts?

I love oxymorons but anyway.
I agree with you magelet I would just call it a dystopia

Jaja I love oxymorons, too. I'm always thinking up the weirdest ones.

Thanks for settling the debate.

Your very welcome.
Tell your friend you got the opinion of an expert. (I'm not really an expert... Shhhhh)

I won't tell if you won't. *winks*

Haha agreed!

I'm just about to start extras... I don't believe that a utopia is physically possible.

It has been a discussion for so many years I think people have stopped trying to figure it out. I still believe that it is possible we just have to keep trying. Just like thomas edison, we haven't failed only found thousands of way to not make a utopia.

Haha okay!'

I realized this was the topic where we discussed the Leviathon series so I guess I'll just post my thought in here again.
I just finished the second one which was very good and I made sure to take my time reading it so I understood it a lot more. Now I'm reading the third one, which I'm about 55% done with it. I can't believe all the secrets coming undone. But it's confusing why the author uses actual events that occured in history but also uses fictional events. I was just wondering how you guys feel when it comes to a mixture of real and nonreal events in a book?
(Wow that was an overly long message) :)

I'm cool with that! It's alternative history and steampunk, so it borrows from real life, but mixes in some fantasy as well. It's just like when you use people from real life in a fictional story - some of the things that happens to the characters will be truthful, but some of it will be fictionalized.

Of course, when fantasy and reality combine in a story, it has to be done properly, and the fictionalized events shouldn't be too much of an affront on a reader's sensibilities. I hope that makes sense!

Let me know how you like the book when you're finished with is mrmcfluff! I love the Leviathan series, so much so that I tempted to do a reread (something I rarely do, as I have so many other books that I want to read!).

Now I'm about 60% done with it. All I'm going to say is, I totally called the whole Alek & Deryn thing. :)

Alek and Deryn are probably my favorite book couple. Screw Bella and Edward.

They are cute. I can't believe Scott Westerfield was able to drag out this romance for 3; 500 paged books

I just finished Goliath, which is the final book of the Leviathon series. I was really happy with the trilogy as a whole. Over all no complaints. It had forbidden love, fiction, and history all wrapped into one and it flowed well. I would recommend this book to anyone who is a fan of Scott Westerfield's, histoy, or fiction.

It was a great series, and just like you, I had nothing to complain about. Plus, I'm a major history nerd, so I love the alternative-historical aspect of it!

idk why....i just cant seem to get through the first 50 pages or so.

I'm guessing that's when they get into all the history of the story. Once you get past that I think you might like it better. For me I can never stop reading a book in the middle and not finish it. Since I stuck with it I got through to the better parts of the book.

i hate that. I think the beginning 30 pages are the most important. If you hate the beginning, then you don't get to the good stuff.

I totally agree with you flan. I hate the beginnings of books. I hate to write them and read them. I understand that authors need to give you background and everything to give a good base but it does get a little tedious to read the beginning pages if they aren't written well.

mhm

Yes, I agree, a utopian society would be, according to the very definition of 'utopy' something very hard to achieve, with humans being jeaulous and competitive and all that, and in the Uglies series, there are definitely things really wrong with their 'ideal' society, they might see it as utopian, but it's not, because well obviously, the story makes you understand why exactly ;)!

by the way, yes, Emmylikesbooks: Midnighters is also by Westerfeld, I reallly loooved to read that :D! We haven't got much books of these series here in Belgium though... :(

Oooh Belgium...

No way! Your from Belgium?!?!

I think that it is super cool that LT is world wide! I live here in the US of A!!

Me tooooo but I shan't specify any further

I defenitly love the idea that people all over the world can read the same book and have similar or different opinions about it, then share.

I've read Uglies...the whole series except Extras...but I don't know about utopic or dystopic...I mean, the pretties BELIEVE it is utopic, right? But all the non-bubbleheads know the truth. I'd say dystopic because the government is controlling, the environment is getting trashed, and things are declining throughout the series, not getting better (until the end at least).

Just my opinion! Please disagree/ agree...it's an interesting topic!

I guess Point of View makes a big difference in the answer to this question. To me it seems utopic because the uglies eventually turn into pretties if they want to be; I think the government trying to make everyone more simple and happy is a good thing. Even though they did some terrible things.

That's a really good point (that I read a MONTH later :D)

Well thank you, I'm glad someone finally noticed. Just kidding :)

Either way it's a great book

yeah, that's very true.