Attitudes Towards Fan Fiction

My husband had forwarded to me this story from Time Magazine about the disparate attitudes towards fan fiction in both television and print "universes". (http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2081784,00.html)

It's interesting to see how it plays out. George R R Martin objects strenuously to fan fiction set in his universe as does Ursula K. LeGuin. That's very different from the attitudes of J.K. Rowling and Stephanie Whats-Her-Name who writes the Twilight series.

As someone who can remember the early attitude of Paramount to Star Trek fan fiction, I find this to be an interesting cultural conflict and/or shift.

I think I can understand authors not wanting their creation used by somebody else. But also, I read a lot of Star Trek books written by fans and they were good starts to many careers. I've read other books written by fans of various authors and I enjoyed those too, so I guess if it's okay with the original author, it's good for me.

Now that I have given you my opinion, I'd better go read the article you cited. Backwards am I.

My favorite kinds of fan fiction stem from video games. Bioware fully embraces fan made stories based on their titles.

#1 I though Rowling was also vastly against ff with HP. Didn't her estate sue various of the more famous fan sites? Most authors I've heard mention it, are against it.

Anybody seen the Star Trek fan fiction movie series?! (before youtube and high quality digital cameras!) over in holywood a complete ff series was made. Some of the actors went on to star in real ST parts.

I can understand being ok with ff in a different media - ie books about the ST films - wheras ff books are competing directly with an author's own titles. And then there is the whole 'you stole my {cheesy} plot idea' complaints.

My original posting still stands. I'm not sure that anybody can create a piece of art that has ideas in it that are taken totally from their imagination. A person's mind is full of whatever has gone before for that person, if you know what I mean.

For instance, I have often thought of writing a story about a certain natural occurrence that I saw, but I'd never have thought of that story if I hadn't read of a similar thing in another book even though the natural occurrence was only seen by me.

Have I been clear? But I still don't blame authors for wanting to claim their ideas for themselves.

I think Fan Fiction is pretty fun sometimes. It has a chance for people to be creative with other people's work. I enjoy reading some of them. I would write them too, except I like keeping my writing private for right now.

>3 DaynaRT: I like video game Fan Fiction too, especially Spyro ones where Ember is portrayed as a freak.

I got into by Thundercat fan fiction because I wanted to do an adult version of the characters with heaps of pain/comfort, etc.

MGP

I stopped reading fan fiction years ago, even Jane Austen fan fiction which I turned to when Signet stopped publishing regency romance novels. But I think it has a place in the world that corporate entities have had to struggle to accept. I tend to think it works best for community purposes when drawing from a community-created universe -- things like Star Trek or Man From Uncle or the like. And where else can someone get feedback nowadays (while still an amateur) on their writing except in such communities?

Heck, as an indie author, if I ever saw someone doing a bit of fan fiction set in Terrene, I'd jump up and down, do a little dance, and send them a big thank you.

I suppose I understand established authors' dislike of it, as well as their publishers. Intellectual property is about the only capital an author has.

I must be missing something. My son showed me some Harry Potter fan fiction and most of it was pretty pornographic. And badly written. I got the impression most fan fiction was of an "adult" (strange word for some of the juvenile stuff it covers) nature.

I can't say what it is like now but in my day, it was alot of heavily-oriented Mary Sue stories. (See http://www.merrycoz.org/papers/MARYSUE.HTM) A percentage of those stories might have involved sex, but just as frequently they were explorations of what-might-have-been for women intrigued by the idea of space exploration and other science fiction style pursuits. (It was during the period of the '70's women's movement and things were different. We didn't think we'd get a woman on the Supreme Court any time soon.)

10 ->

"Fan Fiction" really refers to anything written by fans of an author, based in the world of the author's creations. For example, if you were to write a short story about a fish merchant in Crydee set in in Raymond Feist's Midkemia, you would have written fan fiction.

I'm uninterested in fan fiction of most things, but I do read some, including Doctor Who and Torchwood, White Collar, Stargate: Atlantis, and a rewrite of the entire final book of Harry Potter. Most of what I read is written by the same author, because it's hard to find well-written fanfic so I stick to what I know is good.

And in some of those cases, the fanfic is better than the original.

Well, certainly, if you are familiar with Barbara Hambly's Star Trek novel Ishmael, a cross-over story between Star Trek and Here Come The Brides, you know that it is essentially a rather thinly veiled piece of (excellent) fan fiction written by a professional writer of science fiction. I remember thinking very cynically when it came out that Paramount was only going to countenance fan faction if they could get a cut of the revenue.

My only problem with fan-fiction (aside from really poorly written pieces) is that TVtropes wastes server space treating some work as though it were canon. I know this is, in part, due to the contributors, but that's why admins exist!

I'm currently jotting down notes for an X-Men III and a Star Wars failogy rewrite. I'll be ruining the Phoenix character in the eyes of comic fans, but I want it to fit with the movies. There will also be more focus on Rogue and far less on Logan (I love Wolverine as much as the next kid, but I'm getting tired of only hearing HIS story). As for Star Wars, I will NOT accept those terrible movies as canon. The immaculate conception of Anakin was stupid, as was the rationalizing of the Force, and Leia was WAY to young to remember their mother...stopping now. The list will get very long.

I'm also working on a side-story for Susan Pevensie because I don't like the way CS Lewis treats women in literature. Actually, having read Mere Christianity, I don't like his attitude toward women in general. If you want to defer to your husband in all matters, that's your affair, but Lewis was not always Christian, and he strikes me as a zealot, using Christianity as an excuse to talk himself up. Anywho, my rewrite wouldn't change anything in the Narnia setting - just back here on good ol' Earth, having a more realistic case for Susan. There will also be a bit of clean romance intended as a nod toward fans of the movie, just for fun.

If I were a published author, my opinion (at the moment, anyway), is that I would be happy with general, run of the mill, fan-fiction, as long as it's in a strictly amateur environment. I see fan-fiction as a way people can practise some of the skills of writing, without the world-building. Sure, at some point, if you're serious about being a writer, you have to move on from it, but as a step, it's kinda handy, and a fun thing to experiment with.

I'm not a big fan of slash, though. I can see why some authors are a bit icky over it. If you've spent forever carefully writing these characters' stories with their personality, you're not going to like them suddenly becoming different and falling for a character/noob in a totally uncharacteristic way. It's more icky when it represents acts that are generally gross by world standards (not matter what your political/religious background).

It's certainly true that most fan-fic (particularly the slash) isn't particularly well written. I'd encourage anyone who writes it to treat it like an essay for school. It needs drafts, editing, rewrites, etc. before it goes public, and should conform to some vague standard of quality. This applies even if you're a 14 year-old on your first exploration. Write it at home with all the bad bits, and then upload it when you have checked it, spell checked it, and had a friend read it (even if they don't know much).

Questionable Content, a web comic did a bit on a character who was into Fan Fiction. It was pretty funny.

#16 - What you said in your first paragraph, but I've never read any "slash" and am only assuming I know what it is from the context. It would never be worth my time to read.

Don't know if what Laurie R. King did with Sherlock Holmes is fan fiction or not. At least that author wasn't living to be offended by it. Personally, I love it, but can't think of any other examples I like of another person writing one of my beloved characters. Hate the one that tried to write for Dorothy Sayers and also the one who tried on Rex Stout. They in no way captured the essence of the characters.

So when is fan fiction actionable?

18>

So when is fan fiction actionable?

I'd say the moment they attempt to profit from it somehow. If you are using someone else's intellectual property to advance your own financial (or not) interests, you have crossed the line.

But that's my wholly non-legal opinion.

I absolutely agree that most fanfic isn't well written - that's why I stick to the writer who I know does write well, and recs from people I trust - but that's hardly surprising or unusual. The majority of any given thing isn't done well, especially when many of the people doing it have little experience or training.

There is no difference between the quality of your average fanfiction story and the quality of your average regular fiction story; the only difference is that there simply isn't an audience for any and every scrap of regular fiction that happens to be written, so it doesn't all end up online in easy-to-find places. And for fanfiction, there is, so people post every piece of crap they write.

Not all fanfiction is pornographic (which ranges from light romance to all the way). These sites have ratings & descriptive warnings so you will know. However, there are many stories that are PG rated. And your can sort stories by rating so you will only get PG, romance, etc. One site, I believe, only allows PG rated stories which is fanfiction.net. Not to be confused with adultfanfiction.net. There are many sites dedicated to just Harry Potter fiction which I'm sure has a similar setup. Yes, many are not written very well but many are. I know several published authors who started out writing fan fiction to hone their skills, gain confidence & see if anyone else liked how they wrote. Any published author who gets upset for fans playing in "their world" just doesn't get it. It is the greatest form of compliment that they have moved their audience so. And those fans will be buying their next books. Fans do not make money from writing these fanfics that I can tell. Also, it becomes a community of friends that share similar interests. I remember those early Star Trek days when we feverishly made xerox copies of our stories and passed them out at convensions just to share our love of a fictional world.

Most fanfiction is harmless, a way for either writers to practice their growing skill or read more about our favorite characters.

You should expect Sturgeon's Law and Rule 34 before you ever venture into it, though. I'm fairly sure I can link the death of my childhood to fanfiction.net.

The best fan fiction I've ever read was a complete rewrite of the Babylon 5 universe, called A Dark, Distorted Mirror. I only read the first of the 5 volumes, but it was better than most of the official B5 novels. I've not read a lot of other ones, but I have read both good and absolutely terrible stuff.

My personal opinion is that slash is for the writer's imagination only, and not for me, but I can understand that other people don't feel that way, so I don't force it on others.

I had never heard of, nor read, any fan fiction. My first thought is that many apprentice uses the master's work to develop skills; however, becoming a professional off of someone else's creation is parasitic, but it does happen. I personally try to be diescriminating with where I send my dollars. I like good writing and tend to want to support it; practice writing can be read but not bought in my world.

I'm not a fan myself of fan fiction, I did read some in between Harry Potter books when I just couldn't wait for the next one, but on the whole was dissapointed with it. A lot of it was badly written, and the stuff that was well written I just found frustrating because of course it wasn't 'real' or 'canon'. So it is not really for me.

HOWEVER I don't think there is anything wrong with writting fan fiction on line. So long as it is clearly stated that it is not official or written by the real author, and it is not in any way gaining profit from someone else's interlectual property then I don't see what the problem is. A lot of young people are writting fan fiction and it is a good way for them to start practicing their writing skills using a scenario and characters that already exist, and getting feed back from online readers to help them improve, these people may well be the novelists of the future :) I certainly don't understand why author's get upset, if I was an author I would be flattered and happy to think my fans were writing fan fiction.

It seems that writing fan fiction is a bit like the artists who copy the works of the Masters. It is a useful exercise for writers, at least some writers. But no money should be made.

I cannot wait to see the day when some fan fiction writer goes big (with their own material, not the Fan Fic stuff) and then someone finds their Fan Fic, and then the legal struggles over getting it printed, so we can experience Writer X "in their early days."

Did you know that the LAND of Narnia is copyrighted? You cannot produce a map of Narnia without the express consent of the CS Lewis estate.

No discussion of Fan Fiction can bypass the interesting group the Organization for Transformative Works started by Naomi Novik:

http://transformativeworks.org/

Fan Fiction does fall into the category of ephemera. So much has been lost over the years. It would be nice to have a special category to preserve it in libraries and archives, like a fan fiction only ISBN, which indicates a not for sale feature. Scholarly works, such as Enterprising Women: Television Fandom and the Creation of Popular Myth Camille Bacon-Smith
have been written, so the phenomenon is valuable in the study of literature overall.

I know for myself, without my 300,000 words of Thundercat fan fiction, I would have never had the confidence to attempt NaNoWriMo.

MGP

I've read Fan Fiction, and still do, for multiple 'universes.' I only do this on FanFiction.net.

Yes, most of it is bad - so is most published/edited stuff. Yes, a chunk of it is based on putting together characters A and B, and that is usually horribly dull.

But, some of fan fiction is REALLY GOOD, and the story summaries do a fairly good job of giving a hint of quality.

Let me grab three story summaries from the Harry Potter genre. I've read none of these, so maybe my guesses are all wet.

Story one: "It's sixth year and Draco finds out who his true soul-mate is."

Story two: "The whole story of Remus Lupin and Nymphadora Tonks - from the first meeting to their last day."

Story three: "Hermione goes to Australia to look for her parents and restore their memories. Epilogue compliant"

For me, story one wouldn't get a click. Story two might, but only if I was in a rare mood to read it, and I would decide in the first paragraph if I kept going. Story three sounds quite interesting to me, because an unexplored area of the novels is how Hermione's parents react to their single-sided manipulation by her- as she never ASKED them if it was ok if she masked their memories - in her own gentle way, she was as willing to control muggles as Voldemort, and there should be emotional consequences consistent with that misuse of power - lingering lack of trust from the parents, a crisis of 'ethics' for Hermione, etc..

That third story's idea is what I like best about Fan Fiction: roads not taken by the author, or paths not explored, are explored by others, in a way that fits in with the published universe. Sometimes, they do a good job.

We have a couple professional authors in the Daria fanfiction community. They do it for fun. They try to keep a low profile so they use aliases. I'm sure there's legal reasons for that as well.

Darn cool though when one of them drops you an email and say that he likes your stuff. :)

edit: But you can have so much fun with fanfiction: http://drmikessteakdinner.com/2006/02/13/jane-lane-does-the-kobayashi-maru-from-... :D

26 Arctic - Cassandra Clare, famous for The Very Secret Diaries (of LoTR) has published five books in a YA urban fantasy series. I think she used to write as Cassandra Clay, or something similar.

Edit. I think Lynn Flewelling also started in fanfic.

Jean Johnson also wrote fan fiction. Check your local bookstore or online for her published series, The Sons of Destiny. For something grittier, try her new book, A Soldier's Duty. She's a fantastic writer. My opinion is based on her books that I've read and her fan fiction as I've never had the privilege of meeting her.

MrsLee - Slash is fanfiction that has gay relationships in it. (There are a lot of nitpicky disagreements about the fine points of the definition, but that's basically it.) The only reason to be more upset about slash than about Sherlock Holmes getting married is if you're a raging homophobe. End of story.

The article linked above gives a good overview of what fanfiction is like, both the kinds with sex and the kinds without. The one detail it leaves out is that most fanfiction is written about anime or tv shows. Some is written about movies and a little bit about out-of-copyright books. Very, very little is written about any recent books unless they also have a tv or movie adaptation. This is simply a non-issue for the vast majority of authors. It's only their fear and their inflated egos that make them imagine otherwise.

#32 - Thank you!

I don't suppose any characters getting together would bother me, if the tone of the overall work was kept. It's very hard to find that tone though. Which is one reason the famous authors got famous in the first place.

Q/Picard slash is some of the most hilarious fan fiction out there.

34 - Oh, I shudder to think! :P