The Dresden Files

What do people think? Is reading Jim Butcher's series in order the best way to experience these books?

Absolutely. There are plot lines that get resolved in every book but there is an overall arc to the series. Start with the first one. I've read the entire series so far. It's great fun.

Yes definetly read in order if at all possible. Not only is there an overreaching arc running across the books, but Harry's character changes and develops with time - he is not the person he started out as! These are not a series of episodes happening to a hero (as is sometimes the case with fantasy or detective series) but a long running narrative.

Whatever you choose to do the most recent book changes is the very least suitable book to start with.

Thanks for the tips! I will seek out Storm Front and start there.

I agree. they need to be read in order.

Definitely. The order in which stuff develops is pretty crucial. If you read later books first, you'll spoil important revelations.

Harry, as well as other characters within the series, change tremedously throughout the series. Reading them out of order will draw a lot of questions until you find the previous book that had the answer to why a character acts a certain way.

I just started this series this week and am about halfway through Fool Moon (the second title). So far, I find myself pretty annoyed at some things - in particular the general portrayal of women (and if Butcher tells me that most the world considers politeness toward women to be chauvinistic one more time...).

Do any of these things lighten up as the books go? They've been recommended to me by friends I usually trust, so I'll give it some time if it does, but I'm not feeling very enthusiastic at present.

#8 - yes they do lighen up (a bit). I've another LT friend who has also given up on the series because of the women. However the women do get stronger parts as the series progresses, and Harry does realise that not all women are damsels in distress waiting for him to rescue them. Susan, Elaine and Murphy save his ass several times each.

However although I find them fun, if you're not enjoying them there's no reason to persevere. His Furies of Calderon series is perhaps more egalitarian but features considerably worse plotting and writing.

#8

While he does lighten up on the portrayal, you need to realize that you are reading a book from the main character's perspective. It tends to take on the life of the character, in this case Harry's view, of the woman in question.

Honestly, so far I found Fool Moon the worst of the series, with Blood Rites falling in second.

Plus he has a hopeless idea of the geography of Chicago.

How hard is it to look at a street map/guidebook!

Rich

> 10

Oh, trust me, I am very aware that it's the main character's PoV-- it's just that I find his PoV pretty irritating when it comes to interacting with any woman he's encountered thus far.

> 9

Thanks. It's not that I am not enjoying them per se so much as this one aspect really makes bits and pieces stick out in an unpleasant sort of way. I enjoy other aspects of the books (thus far) enough to give it time to settle if settle it does. I've got through the third from the library, so I'll probably read those and see how I feel about them then!

Thanks for the info!

To me each book was a bit better than the last up to Small Favor. I didnt like the series a lot until Summer Knight.

A lot of people think Fool Moon is the weakest, so you may want to at least try the next one after that, Grave Peril. I've enjoyed them all and do think the books have improved as the series goes on.

If you like the Dresden books you might enjoy the Felix Castor books by Mike Carey starting with The Devil You Know.

#9 Man everyone rips the Calderon books. I thought they were fun. Kind of simpole, but fun.

#15>

You may want to double check your touchstone, as it points to a chick lit book.

Looking at the Mike Carey suggested reading, I'm not sure an exorcist fits the same bill as a down on his luck wizard, but I'll check out the first book.

Rivers of London is my recommendation, though Mike Carey is a good option.

3> Interestingly enough, thats where my college room mate's dad STARTED reading, not thinking it mattered. Now he's gone back and read the series from the beginning and loves it! That said, definitely start with Storm Front. All the books are spoilery to one degree or another, but Changes basically wraps up the entire first half of the series and sets the stage for the next half, so definitely don't start there.

Some people get hung up on the second one, Fool Moon, which is weaker than the others. It's well worth continuing.

The first two are pretty formulaic, the next two start to develop Harry's world a lot more, and then the fifth really kicks things into gear. In my opinion, anyway;a I loved the first two, but was slightly put off by #s 3 and 4. It was the fifth that made a believer out of me.

To be honest, I never really thought that much of Harry's interaction with women; it just seemd to be standard hard-boiled, Chandleresque fare.

For them's as might be interested, The Dresden Files RPG is a 'backstage' view of Harry's world, told from the perspective of Billy as a budding game designer (with commentary from Harry and Bob). It's a very good role-playing game (if you like that sort of thing), but also interesting from a reader POV as to how 'things work' in the world.

>#16

They actually do have similar feels, but Felix's world deals mainly with spirits. There are different kinds of course (standard ghosts, spirits that inhabit dead bodies and become zombies, and those that inhabit animals and become loup-garous).

I will say that while Castor doesn't delve into the world of magic nearly as much as Dresden does, he does feel like more of an actualy P.I. than Dresden. So far, each of his stories have felt like genuine mysteries and take their time unfolding bit by bit.

Lord Darcy is another magician/detective, although the magic is handled by his partner.

i started off with all the dresden short stories ... i kept coming across them in anthologies i was buying. "it's my birthday, too" from "many bloody returns", in particular, was something i should not have read out of order, but it did not dim my enjoyment of the series, at all. i couldn't buy them fast enough and i keep re-reading them.

it is best to read them in order, if you can manage it, though. :)

>23 BruceCoulson:: I love the Lord Darcy stories, but they remind me more of Sherlock Holmes than Harry Dresden. There aren't very many action scenes and they are more traditional mysteries in an alternate history setting with fantasy elements than fantasy novels featuring a detective.

My recommendation for people who like the Dresden Files are Glen Cook's Garrett, P.I. novels. They are set in a more traditional fantasy universe (elves, dwarves, ogres etc.) with a very noiresque feel, but the main character shares some characteristics with Harry (private detective, orphaned, tends to be sarcastic...) although he isn't a wizard. I'm currently up to the ninth book of the series and having a great time.

>8 Aerrin99:

I can't speak to any improvement in later books, as I only read the first, but I was extremely offended by the portrayal of women in Storm Front. I have friends who swear by the series, though, and are boggled by my outrage.

26> I've always had the sense reading the books that that was more part of Harry's personality or the noir genre (which the series at least started out being influenced by) so it hasn't really bothered me that much. I can understand how it might get to other people though.

I'll second the Garrett books; they're like a nice complement to the Dresden series. One features a wizard solving mysteries in more-or-less mundane Chicago; the other features a mundane detective solving mysteries in a fantasy world.

26> It's just Harry's personality. I believe he even apologizes to the reader for being so old fashioned. But as for the story itself, most of its most powerful characters are women. Mothers Winter and Summer, Mab, Titania, and the Archive are all immensely powerful and feared by Harry.

#29 by @jrg1316>

It's not just Harry's personality. Butcher makes several authorial choices about the things that his women do - including the terrible decisions they continually make, often with regards to the jobs they are supposed to be so very good at.

As for being 'old fashioned', Harry is no such thing. There are a number of times that the text sets up straw men (women HATE when people hold the door open for them, but Harry likes to do it, he's just so old fashioned and misunderstood!) that are not actually a thing.

It may be true that there are powerful women in these books eventually, but none of those you've listed show up in the first three. How many books do I have to commit to before the women stop being primarily an excuse for Harry to do some rescuing while admiring some breasts and legs?

@30 You should definitely stay away from the Garrett books, then—and probably anything that aspires to the "noir" vibe, at that.

Tera from Fool Moon. Murphy from book one on. Mab in Summer Knight. Kumori in Death Rites. Mrs. Carpenter from about book 2 on, I believe. Ancient Mai.

#32 -- I would agree with most of your list, except Tera. There is an awful lot of discussion of her breasts and legs. ;)

Given what we find out, that's vaguely disturbing...

We hear a lot about how capable Murphy is supposed to be, but what we /see/ is largely her making terrible decisions and getting in over her head. Actions, words, etc. These are the authorial choices that make it a bigger issue, to me, than just 'that's Harry's personality'.

I forget which book it is in, but there is a point where Harry finally /tells/ her about the White Council and generally better informs her of what she goes up against. My impression is after that point she fares better. A lot of the early Murphy stuff was because she was going up against what she didn't know any /better/ about.

Yes - I can't go back to my perception of Murphy without having read the whole series, but to me she's a great character, brave and smart and capable. One of us up against powerful folk. Harry depends on her a lot.

I'm thinking there's a double standard here. *Harry* constantly makes terrible decisions & gets in over his head, but muddles through (often due to his powers, though also with some grit). Murphy makes some bad decisions & gets in over her head, and gets through with courage & brains. When Murphy does it, the author is being sexist. When Harry does it, what is that?
Others have pointed out the large number of powerful women in the series. Of course, few of them are "good" characters, but there are few unambiguously "good" characters in the series at all.

I'm with Aerrin99 on this: It's not just Harry's perceptions, but the way the behavior of the female characters bears them out.

Basically, my issue with the women in Storm Front is that they fall into three (often overlapping) categories:

Women who mother.
Women who cry.
Women who seduce.

And this includes Murphy. While she's repeatedly described as being tough, I don't think it shows through (in the first book, at least). And it's telling that the supposedly strong female character is the one who needs a climactic rescue.

/$0.02

Harry tells Murphy what's going on in either Summer Knight or Death Masks and she's a more powerful character for it.

Admittedly, the early books have her stepping over what she understands and getting caught in it. (Almost as much as his reporter friend.) Murphy does fight out of it with brains and courage. I could site examples of it, but for those who haven't read more than the first book or two, I don't want to post spoilers.

Some characters do grow as the series continues. Murphy is definitely one. She saves Harry's butt more than once, if I remember correctly.

(Dang, I want to reference something, but I can't remember if it happens in the first book or not!)

40> True, not to mention she's an absolute beast in Changes.

I think you miss out if you don't read them in order the first time, that said I like that they are good stand alone books also.

They are also great in audio format. I have the first 4, James Marsters does a brilliant job of Harry. My other half likes to listen to the audio books, but hasn't bonded with the written format. I mean to buy more, but they are very expensive in the UK!

Sucks that Marsters didn't do the audio for Ghost Story.